1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,693 Speaker 1: from News Talks A B. 3 00:00:12,853 --> 00:00:15,533 Speaker 2: Thank you for your messages. Vast numbers of texts have 4 00:00:15,573 --> 00:00:18,253 Speaker 2: come in, everyone thinking I'm deluded. Of course, that's right. 5 00:00:18,333 --> 00:00:20,453 Speaker 2: Ninety two ninety two is the text number. Lots of 6 00:00:20,453 --> 00:00:23,093 Speaker 2: people saying, oh, Jack, oh, you don't know anything about Iran. Yep, 7 00:00:23,133 --> 00:00:27,373 Speaker 2: that's probably true. And married to an Iranian refugee, that's right. 8 00:00:27,493 --> 00:00:30,413 Speaker 2: My entire and laws. Fleeder ran because of the oppressive regime. 9 00:00:30,413 --> 00:00:34,413 Speaker 2: But thank you for that, Jack, You are deluded. There 10 00:00:34,453 --> 00:00:36,813 Speaker 2: is no international law, there is no enforcement because the 11 00:00:36,893 --> 00:00:40,813 Speaker 2: UN is toothless. I mean, it's true that that the 12 00:00:40,853 --> 00:00:43,053 Speaker 2: fact that the Security Council still has the power of 13 00:00:43,133 --> 00:00:45,373 Speaker 2: veto means that it's very difficult to get some sort 14 00:00:45,373 --> 00:00:47,773 Speaker 2: of a UN mandate. What's interesting, though, like compare it 15 00:00:47,813 --> 00:00:51,373 Speaker 2: to Iraq, is that at least with no I shouldn't even 16 00:00:51,373 --> 00:00:53,293 Speaker 2: say at least, but with a rack, it's interesting, right, 17 00:00:53,373 --> 00:00:56,293 Speaker 2: with a rak, they tried that. They kind of went 18 00:00:56,333 --> 00:01:00,453 Speaker 2: through the motions of trying to build a case. They said, oh, 19 00:01:00,653 --> 00:01:02,573 Speaker 2: you know, this is it. We've got evidence, this is it, 20 00:01:02,613 --> 00:01:05,493 Speaker 2: weapons of mass destruction, et cetera, et cetera. They they 21 00:01:05,533 --> 00:01:09,893 Speaker 2: went through the motion, they had the veneer of pursuing legitimacy, 22 00:01:09,933 --> 00:01:13,893 Speaker 2: whereas Trump doesn't care about that necessarily. It's just it's 23 00:01:13,933 --> 00:01:17,213 Speaker 2: interesting how much has changed over the last twenty two 24 00:01:17,253 --> 00:01:19,253 Speaker 2: years or so. I'll get to more of your text 25 00:01:19,253 --> 00:01:20,733 Speaker 2: in a couple of minutes. Ninety two ninety two if 26 00:01:20,773 --> 00:01:22,533 Speaker 2: you want to send us a number This morning, nineteen 27 00:01:22,573 --> 00:01:26,653 Speaker 2: past nine, and Kevin Milne is with us, Kilder Kevin Cyoder. 28 00:01:26,893 --> 00:01:29,893 Speaker 3: Yes, I can't imagine how a difficult week it's been, 29 00:01:30,133 --> 00:01:33,693 Speaker 3: really and I've been thinking about Marvor and Marver's family, 30 00:01:33,813 --> 00:01:38,293 Speaker 3: and yes, you will have some really really interesting insights 31 00:01:38,333 --> 00:01:40,413 Speaker 3: into what's going on. 32 00:01:40,773 --> 00:01:44,093 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, there's no doubt it's complex 33 00:01:44,133 --> 00:01:48,093 Speaker 2: and tricky. Well, I don't think I necessarily am, but 34 00:01:48,133 --> 00:01:51,613 Speaker 2: I just you know, it's Yes, I certainly have had 35 00:01:51,693 --> 00:01:54,453 Speaker 2: attention on this, on the regime and what it's done 36 00:01:54,493 --> 00:01:57,253 Speaker 2: to its people for a long time now, and yeah, 37 00:01:57,373 --> 00:02:01,493 Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's possible to both all 38 00:02:01,573 --> 00:02:07,893 Speaker 2: the Iranian regime and think that, you know, if if 39 00:02:07,973 --> 00:02:10,813 Speaker 2: we are demanding, if we say we believe in the 40 00:02:10,853 --> 00:02:13,213 Speaker 2: rules based order, we say we believe in international law 41 00:02:13,493 --> 00:02:16,413 Speaker 2: then at the very least demanding the Americans provide some 42 00:02:16,453 --> 00:02:18,573 Speaker 2: evidence of an minate threat. I think it's pretty reasonable. 43 00:02:18,653 --> 00:02:20,893 Speaker 2: I just think, I mean, I don't think international law, 44 00:02:20,973 --> 00:02:23,573 Speaker 2: you know. I think it's a nice lofty ambition. I'm 45 00:02:23,813 --> 00:02:26,693 Speaker 2: realistic about the kind of nature of international law and 46 00:02:26,733 --> 00:02:29,133 Speaker 2: the UN and everything in this day and age. But 47 00:02:29,373 --> 00:02:31,133 Speaker 2: I just point out that New Zealand has nothing else 48 00:02:31,173 --> 00:02:33,373 Speaker 2: to lean on, like, we've got absolutely no other levers, 49 00:02:33,373 --> 00:02:36,333 Speaker 2: We've got no other cards to play. And I find 50 00:02:36,333 --> 00:02:38,373 Speaker 2: it interesting that this year so far, you know, you 51 00:02:38,413 --> 00:02:41,053 Speaker 2: think about Mark Karnyon, the rupture in the world order, 52 00:02:41,093 --> 00:02:44,333 Speaker 2: and all these kind of grandiose pronouncements about the importance 53 00:02:44,333 --> 00:02:46,533 Speaker 2: of the rules based order and international law, and then 54 00:02:46,573 --> 00:02:48,893 Speaker 2: this comes around and everyone goes, ah, yeah, oh, the 55 00:02:49,013 --> 00:02:50,693 Speaker 2: rules just starting a plight to our mates. I just yeah, 56 00:02:50,853 --> 00:02:54,293 Speaker 2: except for the Spanish, which is interesting. The Spanish have 57 00:02:54,373 --> 00:03:01,293 Speaker 2: come out and have earned Trump's ira as a response. Anyway, Kevin, yeah, obviously, Yeah, 58 00:03:01,293 --> 00:03:03,493 Speaker 2: it's a bit of a Contncher's point, but rather late 59 00:03:03,533 --> 00:03:06,453 Speaker 2: in life this week you have made an interesting discovery. 60 00:03:07,333 --> 00:03:10,133 Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm moving too. A slightly lighter note here. 61 00:03:11,453 --> 00:03:15,493 Speaker 3: Our family recently holidayed on the east coast of the country, 62 00:03:15,733 --> 00:03:18,013 Speaker 3: as opposed to the west coast of the North Island 63 00:03:18,053 --> 00:03:21,373 Speaker 3: where we normally live. The sun was keen. We all 64 00:03:21,413 --> 00:03:25,453 Speaker 3: got up one early one morning and watched the sunrise 65 00:03:25,493 --> 00:03:28,093 Speaker 3: from the beach. We see a lot of sunsets here 66 00:03:28,133 --> 00:03:31,693 Speaker 3: at home, but never a sunrise, So at about five 67 00:03:31,893 --> 00:03:35,973 Speaker 3: thirty am we're head down to the sand. The first 68 00:03:36,013 --> 00:03:39,053 Speaker 3: thing that surprised me was when the alarm went off, 69 00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:43,453 Speaker 3: it was already light. We missed sunrise. I thought I 70 00:03:43,493 --> 00:03:47,173 Speaker 3: was expecting it to be dark prior to sunrise. It 71 00:03:47,293 --> 00:03:52,773 Speaker 3: isn't prior to sunrise. It's already light. I've always assumed 72 00:03:53,133 --> 00:03:57,933 Speaker 3: that sunrise is when dark turns to light. I thought 73 00:03:58,053 --> 00:04:01,613 Speaker 3: sunrise was the first shafts of light as the sun 74 00:04:01,973 --> 00:04:05,973 Speaker 3: comes up over the horizon, but no light fills the 75 00:04:06,013 --> 00:04:11,773 Speaker 3: sky well before sunrise. I've always thought dawn and sunrise 76 00:04:12,133 --> 00:04:17,093 Speaker 3: were basically the same thing, but no, they're entirely different events. 77 00:04:17,573 --> 00:04:23,133 Speaker 3: Dawn occurs before sunrise. In law, when dawn provides enough 78 00:04:23,213 --> 00:04:26,773 Speaker 3: light for humans to carry out activities without the need 79 00:04:26,813 --> 00:04:32,453 Speaker 3: for artificial lighting, it's known as civil dawn. It's defined 80 00:04:32,453 --> 00:04:35,533 Speaker 3: as the exact moment the center of the sun's six 81 00:04:35,653 --> 00:04:41,693 Speaker 3: degrees below the horizon, so before sunrise at Sybil dawn, 82 00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:46,973 Speaker 3: we can drive cars and sail boats without artificial lighting. So, Jack, 83 00:04:47,293 --> 00:04:51,093 Speaker 3: what was simply going to be a hippie sunrise experience 84 00:04:51,173 --> 00:04:54,293 Speaker 3: on Babba More Beach turned out to be more enlightening 85 00:04:54,333 --> 00:04:59,693 Speaker 3: than expected. Dawn and sunrise two totally different events that 86 00:04:59,773 --> 00:05:04,253 Speaker 3: occur at different times. Who knew? I didn't because frankly, 87 00:05:05,533 --> 00:05:08,013 Speaker 3: I've never spent much time out of bed at that 88 00:05:08,093 --> 00:05:08,733 Speaker 3: time of the day. 89 00:05:10,333 --> 00:05:13,813 Speaker 2: It's uh, yeah, I think I would have thought dawn 90 00:05:13,813 --> 00:05:15,693 Speaker 2: and sunrise were exactly the same thing as well. I 91 00:05:15,733 --> 00:05:19,173 Speaker 2: know that obviously it gets light before the sun peaks 92 00:05:19,213 --> 00:05:21,653 Speaker 2: over the horizon. You know, I can see that. So 93 00:05:22,653 --> 00:05:24,733 Speaker 2: is it do we say that dawn is the moment 94 00:05:24,853 --> 00:05:27,613 Speaker 2: that you go from you know, it's what's that line, 95 00:05:27,653 --> 00:05:29,693 Speaker 2: it's always darkest before the dawn, do we go Do 96 00:05:29,733 --> 00:05:33,293 Speaker 2: we say that dawn is the moment that you go 97 00:05:33,373 --> 00:05:38,253 Speaker 2: from that that the light starts to increase, like even 98 00:05:38,293 --> 00:05:39,093 Speaker 2: by a tiny bit. 99 00:05:40,733 --> 00:05:43,373 Speaker 3: Yes, it is, it is, and so that's what I 100 00:05:43,413 --> 00:05:44,653 Speaker 3: thought sunrise well. 101 00:05:44,533 --> 00:05:46,813 Speaker 2: And so okay, is there an exact time that there 102 00:05:46,853 --> 00:05:50,133 Speaker 2: happens that's my expression? Or does it change depending on 103 00:05:50,173 --> 00:05:52,813 Speaker 2: atmospheric conditions and time of year and that kind of thing. 104 00:05:53,053 --> 00:05:57,973 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it it occurs over a small period of time. 105 00:05:58,533 --> 00:06:02,053 Speaker 3: But in legal terms, there is there is an exact 106 00:06:02,173 --> 00:06:05,893 Speaker 3: time when we're allowed to use vehicles and boats and 107 00:06:05,973 --> 00:06:09,973 Speaker 3: do a whole machinery of all differences. Yes, and that's 108 00:06:10,013 --> 00:06:13,453 Speaker 3: called civil dawn, and that's when there is enough light 109 00:06:13,653 --> 00:06:15,493 Speaker 3: to see without artificial light. 110 00:06:15,813 --> 00:06:20,853 Speaker 2: Interesting, right, So my question though, and maybe maybe we've 111 00:06:20,853 --> 00:06:25,093 Speaker 2: got a mathematician listening or someone who understands the kind 112 00:06:25,133 --> 00:06:27,973 Speaker 2: of the different equations we'd need to do here. My 113 00:06:28,173 --> 00:06:33,853 Speaker 2: question is, is there a point, like exactly sixty four 114 00:06:33,933 --> 00:06:38,733 Speaker 2: minutes and fifteen seconds before sunrise? Is there an exact point, 115 00:06:39,293 --> 00:06:42,013 Speaker 2: depending on where you are in the Earth, where it 116 00:06:42,173 --> 00:06:44,893 Speaker 2: starts to slowly get lighter before the sun And can 117 00:06:44,933 --> 00:06:47,373 Speaker 2: you can you measure that? Is it a consistent point? 118 00:06:47,613 --> 00:06:48,093 Speaker 2: You understand? 119 00:06:48,213 --> 00:06:51,133 Speaker 3: I think what? I think you could do that because yeah, 120 00:06:51,173 --> 00:06:53,733 Speaker 3: they know that the as I said, the center of 121 00:06:54,053 --> 00:06:58,053 Speaker 3: the civil dawn is when the sun is six degrees 122 00:06:58,093 --> 00:07:01,653 Speaker 3: below the horizon, right, so it's showing enough light. But 123 00:07:01,693 --> 00:07:04,653 Speaker 3: when it starts to show light, I imagine that the 124 00:07:04,693 --> 00:07:08,013 Speaker 3: sun is you know, what is it? Maybe ten degrees 125 00:07:08,133 --> 00:07:08,933 Speaker 3: below the ears. 126 00:07:09,133 --> 00:07:11,493 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure someone's done this. Someone must have worked. 127 00:07:11,613 --> 00:07:14,013 Speaker 2: That's very good, okay, Kevin. Look, we'll throw that open 128 00:07:14,733 --> 00:07:17,053 Speaker 2: to the text line, see if anyone can help us 129 00:07:17,413 --> 00:07:20,213 Speaker 2: with that summation. Appreciate your time this morning, Kevin, and 130 00:07:20,293 --> 00:07:23,333 Speaker 2: appreciate all of your text. Someone message me and said, Jack, 131 00:07:23,613 --> 00:07:27,853 Speaker 2: you know, were you calling it terrorism when Hamas struck 132 00:07:27,853 --> 00:07:30,573 Speaker 2: in Israel? And do I suggest that that's because I must, 133 00:07:30,573 --> 00:07:32,933 Speaker 2: of course is supported by the Iranian regime? Do I 134 00:07:32,933 --> 00:07:35,453 Speaker 2: suggest that's exactly the kind of thing that I think 135 00:07:35,533 --> 00:07:38,533 Speaker 2: is now more likely. Those kind of attacks on soft 136 00:07:38,533 --> 00:07:41,653 Speaker 2: civilian targets I think are now much more likely going 137 00:07:41,693 --> 00:07:43,733 Speaker 2: forward in the future, not just in Israel, but all 138 00:07:43,773 --> 00:07:47,093 Speaker 2: over the world because of this. I think it's really 139 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:49,853 Speaker 2: easy to just look at this as a conventional war 140 00:07:49,893 --> 00:07:52,373 Speaker 2: for the time being, right for the next week or 141 00:07:52,493 --> 00:07:56,333 Speaker 2: next couple of weeks, but I think we will be seeing, 142 00:07:56,373 --> 00:07:58,373 Speaker 2: sadly seeing an impact for this foot for a long 143 00:07:58,413 --> 00:07:58,853 Speaker 2: time to come. 144 00:07:59,493 --> 00:08:02,613 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 145 00:08:02,693 --> 00:08:05,853 Speaker 1: to News Talks' b from nine am Saturday, or follow 146 00:08:05,893 --> 00:08:07,453 Speaker 1: the podcast asked on iHeartRadio