1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: The report into the y Carrier prison riot is out. 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: We take you back to New Years of twenty twenty. 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: At least twenty one prisoners unhappy with their living conditions, 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: fought with Corrections officers and that fires. The inquiries found 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: significant issues with the Department of Corrections and preparedness for 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: the riot and the way staff handled the event. So 7 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: Lee Marsh is the Commissioner for Custodial Services at Corrections 8 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: and is with us. Very good morning to you. 9 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: How good morning, Mike. 10 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: You're disappointed in what you found, I'm not. 11 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: It was certainly a lot of learnings for us. I 12 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 2: think the report was very helpful in identifying some areas 13 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: for us to focus on. But look, before I get 14 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: into that, I really do want to acknowledge our staff 15 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 2: that we often talk about and I've talked probably around 16 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: the challenge in dobb our directions officers do, and this 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 2: really does point to that. And I've no doubt that 18 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: their bravery saved lives on that day. They did a 19 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: phenomenal job in the worst of situations. I'm incredibly proud 20 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: of what they did. Well. 21 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: That jaxtaposes what the reports is. See as you're unprepared, 22 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: I suggest that. 23 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: Our staff did an incredible job on the day and 24 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: their actions resulted in no loss of life during that event. 25 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: But let's not lose sight of the fact that this 26 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 2: event was a deliberate act by a group of very 27 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 2: violent individuals who deliberately put lives at risk. This was 28 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: a choice by them to do that. I would suggest 29 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 2: the report points more to our systems, processes and training, 30 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: which is what we've really focused and invested in over 31 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: the last couple of years. 32 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: So would you argue that you materially changed that should 33 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: this happen this morning somewhere, you are better prepared and 34 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: differently prepared than you were in twenty twenty. 35 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think what this identified for us across our network. 36 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: From an infrastructure perspective, we've got a range of facilities, 37 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: some arrange fact to one hundred years old, some are 38 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: only a few years old, and this has helped us 39 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: identify some of those vulnerabilities in those older facilities. If 40 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 2: we fix that, we've been around and made sure that 41 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: those vulnerabilities don't exist. We've heavily invested in our training 42 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: and our response capability. We now have a specially trained 43 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: at height team that can respond to prisoners on roofs. 44 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: We've got our advanced control and restaurant team trained and 45 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: numbers increased. We've increased and trained a further up prison negotiators, 46 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 2: and we've looked at enhanced tactical communication training for all 47 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 2: of our frontline staff so they're better equipped and more 48 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: confident to deal with conflict at the lower level. 49 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: If it happened today, would you still hand out food? 50 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: We don't hand out food. Well, we feed prisoners in 51 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: prisons obviously. 52 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Then, but when they're on the route, do you get 53 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: a bit of KFC for them to come down, or 54 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: a bit of pizza? Hut? 55 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 2: No, No, we don't do that. 56 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: You do well, you did that then, didn't you? 57 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 2: No? There is nothing to suggest in the report. I've 58 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: had no reports to me at all that KFC or 59 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: pizzas or fish and Chips or McDonald's or anything was 60 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 2: used during those negotiats. 61 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: So was that most reported then, because that was widely 62 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 1: reported at the time. There was food flying lift right 63 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: and seen it? 64 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: No, that was possibly another agencies events with people at 65 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: roof what. 66 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: At the same place, not at Wykia, So it never 67 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: happened at Waikeria. What about the people who said just 68 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: leave them up there. 69 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: Who said to leave them up public lots. 70 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: In the public said leave them uppy, Stop negotiating with them. 71 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: They want to sit on the top of the roof. 72 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: Leave them up there until they're so sick of it 73 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: they'll come down. In other words, tough enough. 74 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,839 Speaker 2: Well, when it comes to negotiating in these situations, if 75 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: it is safe to do so and there is no 76 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: threat to life, we often use the tactic of waiting 77 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 2: for people. I'm quite frank. If someone sat on a 78 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 2: roof peacefully protesting and it starts to rain, they normally 79 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: come down. But the reality of this is it wasn't 80 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: a peaceful protest. These individuals were deliberately trying to burn 81 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: the building down and destroy it. They were putting lives 82 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: at risk. And when you read the report, they targeted 83 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: individuals and deliberately put their lives at rest with their actions. 84 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: Good stuff that we have no choice. 85 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: All right, Lee, appreciate it very much, Lee Marsh who's 86 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: the Corrections Commissioner Custodial Services, and we are checking on 87 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: the reportage. I may have had the building wrong, maybe 88 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: that was somewhere else. I thought it was a thing 89 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: everywhere certainly. I remember very thought it was white carrier, 90 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: very distinctly. The business downtown Auckland, where they climbed up 91 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: in that clock tower or whatever it dives in the 92 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: busy negotiating over food. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, 93 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, 94 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.