WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #248 - July 24th 2024 - Ramesh Thakur 0:00:09.133 --> 0:00:12.013 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B. 0:00:12.413 --> 0:00:16.173 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:16.813 --> 0:00:19.813 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:19.853 --> 0:00:24.933 the information, all the debates of this now the Layton 0:00:25.053 --> 0:00:27.733 Smith Podcast powered by News Talks it B. 0:00:28.213 --> 0:00:30.973 Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and forty eight for July 0:00:31.093 --> 0:00:35.533 twenty four, twenty twenty four. Ramish the Curve is a 0:00:35.573 --> 0:00:39.653 familiar name on this podcast. His history is pretty well known. 0:00:40.053 --> 0:00:44.773 Professor at Otago for a lengthy period, then Australian National University, Canberra, 0:00:46.173 --> 0:00:50.533 time at the United Nations, including as Assistant Secretary General 0:00:51.053 --> 0:00:54.933 and a profound author, and there's many more accolades. At 0:00:54.933 --> 0:00:58.453 the beginning of the discussion that we have we worked 0:00:58.493 --> 0:01:02.373 our way through so much of relevance, beginning with the latest, 0:01:02.413 --> 0:01:05.573 well almost the latest in US politics, hard to keep 0:01:05.653 --> 0:01:10.653 up other world matters, including dangers of a centralized digitized world, 0:01:11.293 --> 0:01:17.293 cash and cbdc's free speech wokeness. We called time at 0:01:17.293 --> 0:01:21.333 eighty minutes, and I've chosen to split the discussion over 0:01:21.413 --> 0:01:25.613 two weeks. Over two weeks podcast so two forty eight 0:01:25.853 --> 0:01:28.373 is part one. Now, I have no doubt it falls 0:01:28.373 --> 0:01:32.493 into the category of one of the best. After the 0:01:32.493 --> 0:01:35.933 mail Room, I've included what is a lengthy piece, an 0:01:36.013 --> 0:01:40.973 article that's highly relevant to believers in democracy, freedom, independence. 0:01:41.653 --> 0:01:48.333 Actually it's actually it's relevant to everyone. Really, one man's 0:01:48.373 --> 0:01:51.213 battle with a suppression will cover it for the moment. 0:01:51.613 --> 0:01:54.893 It also has a connection with Oliver Hartwitch's column on 0:01:54.973 --> 0:01:59.453 the New Zealand Initiative website. Europe is now on its 0:01:59.573 --> 0:02:07.293 own a connection because both involve Europe, specifically Germany. Now, 0:02:07.333 --> 0:02:10.773 a couple of things in passing just before we get 0:02:10.773 --> 0:02:15.213 into Ramesh the Kur there is an individual who's causing 0:02:15.453 --> 0:02:20.173 a great deal of shall we say, agitation with practically 0:02:20.213 --> 0:02:22.573 all the population, well those who are aware of it. 0:02:23.213 --> 0:02:26.693 This individual is a member of Parliament and shouldn't be. 0:02:27.093 --> 0:02:29.653 This individual is sitting on the back seat and collecting 0:02:29.933 --> 0:02:33.533 full salary, which she apparently is entitled to as long 0:02:33.573 --> 0:02:35.653 as she stays there for the next two and a 0:02:35.693 --> 0:02:38.573 half years. Now there are people who are blaming other 0:02:38.613 --> 0:02:42.693 people and trying to trying to decide who's responsible for 0:02:42.733 --> 0:02:46.573 this situation. And the answer is there's one thing that's 0:02:46.693 --> 0:02:51.253 responsible for it, and it's called MMP. And MMP has 0:02:51.733 --> 0:02:55.053 wrought all sorts of issues over the years. It's something 0:02:55.053 --> 0:02:59.013 that we should dump yesterday. But it won't happen, of course, 0:02:59.053 --> 0:03:02.133 because it's too difficult, and I suppose we have to 0:03:02.173 --> 0:03:07.053 live with it. But it's failings showed themselves occasionally, and 0:03:07.093 --> 0:03:08.893 this is one of them and one of the worst. 0:03:09.173 --> 0:03:11.573 There are all sorts of adjectives I could use to 0:03:11.573 --> 0:03:14.053 describe this person, but I'll leave that for you to 0:03:14.213 --> 0:03:17.093 fill in some spare time with the other one is 0:03:17.133 --> 0:03:19.533 the other one I want to mention is something that 0:03:21.133 --> 0:03:26.693 is relevant elsewhere but also of interest to us. The 0:03:26.813 --> 0:03:29.253 chances are very high that you've never heard of this 0:03:29.453 --> 0:03:33.093 individual whose name is Tina Peters. 0:03:33.813 --> 0:03:35.013 Who was Tina Peters? 0:03:35.493 --> 0:03:39.093 Well, she was the election clerk at Mesa or Mesa, 0:03:39.093 --> 0:03:43.733 whichever you want, Mesa County of Colorado at the twenty 0:03:43.813 --> 0:03:47.893 twenty election. And she's looking at twenty years in jail. 0:03:48.253 --> 0:03:52.733 Why because in the election that mattered, she decided that 0:03:52.773 --> 0:03:57.933 she would retain records of voting. Now, I have no 0:03:58.053 --> 0:04:01.493 idea of any further details except that this story broke 0:04:01.613 --> 0:04:04.693 just a few minutes ago while I was recording, and 0:04:04.773 --> 0:04:07.133 it came up on my phone. So I had a 0:04:07.173 --> 0:04:09.053 quick look at it, and I thought I'll throw this 0:04:09.133 --> 0:04:13.773 in for good measure because we have experienced, all of 0:04:13.853 --> 0:04:17.613 us have experienced this trauma that came out of the 0:04:18.293 --> 0:04:21.613 twenty twenty election and the twenty two election as well, 0:04:22.093 --> 0:04:27.013 but with voting machines and all sorts of claims and 0:04:27.733 --> 0:04:32.053 counterclaims and megabucks being paid out in lawsuits, etc. It 0:04:32.093 --> 0:04:35.173 gained an awful lot of attention. And the question still 0:04:35.213 --> 0:04:39.973 hangs in the air. Was the twenty twenty election corrupt? 0:04:40.653 --> 0:04:43.733 I know that it was, but was it corrupt enough 0:04:43.773 --> 0:04:47.893 to swing the result? It's something we don't know. I 0:04:47.893 --> 0:04:51.173 don't know, nobody knows, but you can have a guess. Anyway, 0:04:51.253 --> 0:04:54.853 this story just broke and I thought I'd throw it 0:04:54.893 --> 0:04:58.133 in because if it's true, and I have no idea 0:04:58.213 --> 0:05:03.733 as to its truthfulness, came up on X then there 0:05:03.813 --> 0:05:06.973 could be all sorts of repercussions. And I just find 0:05:07.013 --> 0:05:11.253 that interesting or a tacit your way now in just 0:05:11.293 --> 0:05:23.093 a moment, rameshtheku. There are essential fat nutrients that we 0:05:23.173 --> 0:05:25.933 need in our diets as the body can't manufacture them. 0:05:26.053 --> 0:05:30.293 These are Omega three and Amiga six fatty acids. 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Rameshtha Kur is emeritus 0:07:04.853 --> 0:07:07.853 Professor in the Crawford School of Public Policy at the 0:07:07.853 --> 0:07:12.493 Australian National University. He's a Fellow of the Australian Institute 0:07:12.533 --> 0:07:17.653 of International Affairs and Brownstone Institute's Senior Scholar. He's doing 0:07:17.733 --> 0:07:21.613 brilliant work with Brownstone. He was a Senior Vice rector 0:07:21.813 --> 0:07:25.253 at the United Nations University and Assistant Secretary General of 0:07:25.293 --> 0:07:28.773 the United Nations. Educated in India and Canada, he was 0:07:28.813 --> 0:07:32.133 a professor of International Relations at the University of Otago, 0:07:32.493 --> 0:07:35.733 a professor and head of the Peace Research Center the 0:07:35.733 --> 0:07:39.813 Australian National University, and Foundation director of the Balsilly School 0:07:39.853 --> 0:07:44.093 of International Affairs at Waterloo, Ontario. He's also served as 0:07:44.093 --> 0:07:47.133 a consultant advisor to the Australian, New Zealand and Norwegian 0:07:47.133 --> 0:07:51.413 governments on arms, controlled, disarmament and international security issues. And 0:07:51.453 --> 0:07:54.733 he was commissioner and one of the principal authors of 0:07:54.773 --> 0:08:00.133 the Responsibility to Protect in two thousand one, and Senior 0:08:00.173 --> 0:08:03.413 Advisor on Reforms and principal writer of the United Nations 0:08:03.493 --> 0:08:07.933 Secretary General KOFE. NaN's Second Reform Report in two thousand 0:08:07.933 --> 0:08:10.813 and two he's been on this podcast on more than 0:08:11.213 --> 0:08:15.893 two occasions, and it's a great pleasure to welcome me back. 0:08:16.013 --> 0:08:18.613 Ramsha. I hope you're good. Good, Thank you. Laden. 0:08:19.173 --> 0:08:22.533 I noticed that we hadn't spoken this year at all, 0:08:22.933 --> 0:08:25.973 and that disturbed me, and it was it was even 0:08:26.373 --> 0:08:28.133 it was about nine months ago. I think that we 0:08:28.293 --> 0:08:30.333 that we actually did our last interview. And I can't 0:08:30.373 --> 0:08:32.853 understand that except that this year. 0:08:32.693 --> 0:08:34.973 Has been a little bit. Time flies. 0:08:35.573 --> 0:08:37.973 This year has been a little different to a lot 0:08:38.013 --> 0:08:41.693 of a lot of others. Are you yes, you've just 0:08:41.693 --> 0:08:44.493 come back from Japan too? Was what was the cause? 0:08:45.653 --> 0:08:50.813 I was in Hiroshima. Every year since twenty thirteen, the 0:08:50.853 --> 0:08:55.253 Governor of Hiroshima, which is an elected position, has convened 0:08:55.373 --> 0:08:59.493 a small group of international experts on a team called 0:08:59.533 --> 0:09:03.373 the Hiroshima Around Table. We look at the year that 0:09:03.413 --> 0:09:06.013 has gone by and look forward to the year that's 0:09:06.093 --> 0:09:10.693 coming with respect to the threats and attempts. 0:09:10.293 --> 0:09:13.493 To reduce the threats from nuclear weapons. And we've done 0:09:13.533 --> 0:09:16.413 it every year except for two years when we couldn't 0:09:16.453 --> 0:09:20.093 because of the travel restrictions in relation to COVID. Is 0:09:20.133 --> 0:09:23.333 it what you announced? This? Sorry? Just one last thing, Well, 0:09:23.333 --> 0:09:25.973 I'm on that subject. I announced to the group this 0:09:26.053 --> 0:09:29.973 year that this will be my last meeting. Excuse me, 0:09:30.013 --> 0:09:32.293 I'm getting a bit too old to engage in law 0:09:32.373 --> 0:09:37.533 distance travel. Your body rebuilt. I'll keep going to New 0:09:37.613 --> 0:09:41.693 Zealand and to family in India, and beyond that that's unlikely. 0:09:41.933 --> 0:09:44.493 Well, there are people, it is really important or interesting. 0:09:44.773 --> 0:09:46.573 There are people in New Zealand who will see you 0:09:46.573 --> 0:09:50.853 as often as you like. Now, you've also published a 0:09:50.933 --> 0:09:55.173 book last year, our enemy, the government. I want to 0:09:55.253 --> 0:09:56.933 talk to you about the book, and I thought it 0:09:57.053 --> 0:10:00.093 appropriate to rate it at the beginning. But before we 0:10:00.213 --> 0:10:03.453 do the book, I want to ask you about your 0:10:03.533 --> 0:10:07.893 thoughts on American politics at this moment, with the last 0:10:07.893 --> 0:10:10.973 couple of weeks in mind, because there has been well 0:10:11.013 --> 0:10:15.213 what can I say, there has been an earthquake. Politically 0:10:15.293 --> 0:10:15.813 of course. 0:10:15.693 --> 0:10:22.373 Yes, yes, Well it's in a sense part of the 0:10:22.413 --> 0:10:26.733 ongoing sense of in Churchill's words, the gathering storm once 0:10:26.773 --> 0:10:31.613 again internationally. But of course the United States has a 0:10:31.893 --> 0:10:37.853 uniquely important influence in shaping the contours of world affairs 0:10:37.853 --> 0:10:41.253 and geopolitics as well. So what's happening that is important 0:10:41.293 --> 0:10:45.013 for all of us, particularly all of us in the 0:10:45.093 --> 0:10:49.373 Western democratic world, if you like. And we began the 0:10:49.493 --> 0:10:52.573 year with the thought that surely the United States can 0:10:52.653 --> 0:10:56.253 do better than presenting us with the same two choices. 0:10:57.413 --> 0:11:00.013 But in fact there has been remarkable developments with respect 0:11:00.093 --> 0:11:05.213 to both of them within the past two to three weeks, 0:11:05.253 --> 0:11:08.333 including today as we speak, or overnight as we speak, 0:11:09.173 --> 0:11:13.213 with respect to President Biden finally bowing to reality, the 0:11:13.213 --> 0:11:21.373 political reality which is caused by his increasingly obvious health reality. 0:11:22.413 --> 0:11:25.973 So yes, there's all sorts of convulsions is probably the 0:11:25.973 --> 0:11:30.493 best word. In the meantime with the attempted assassination on Trump, 0:11:31.573 --> 0:11:36.853 there's another whole slew of questions and reflections in relation 0:11:37.013 --> 0:11:39.853 to that. I mean, I think we're all going to 0:11:39.893 --> 0:11:44.773 be watching that particular photo endlessly from not in November, 0:11:44.813 --> 0:11:48.933 and I suspect periodically after that. I'm not sure what 0:11:49.093 --> 0:11:53.613 photos you can compare that to. Its certainly visually very 0:11:53.653 --> 0:11:57.973 reminiscent of the famous photograph on Yuojima as the Americans 0:11:58.213 --> 0:12:03.333 raised the American flag, except that was obviously more consequential 0:12:03.373 --> 0:12:06.333 in terms of the Pacific War theater of the Second 0:12:06.333 --> 0:12:09.653 World War, but it was whereas the Trump thing was 0:12:11.013 --> 0:12:15.293 lived reality in technical for everyone who was watching it 0:12:15.653 --> 0:12:20.453 live or unless they've been hiding themselves under rock, watched 0:12:20.453 --> 0:12:25.293 the news since then, and it recreates a myth of 0:12:25.373 --> 0:12:28.613 Trump which is in a sense sharper than and different 0:12:28.613 --> 0:12:32.893 from his previous perceived for sooner. So that's one side 0:12:32.893 --> 0:12:38.213 of it. And that followed the disastrous debate performance by 0:12:38.293 --> 0:12:44.373 Joe Biden, which performed the reality that he's mentally aged 0:12:44.493 --> 0:12:47.453 a lot, even in the past four years, almost on 0:12:47.493 --> 0:12:51.053 a monthly basis, and essentially, to be blunt about it, 0:12:51.093 --> 0:12:54.493 the Democratic Party and the press by and large have 0:12:54.653 --> 0:12:57.933 light to the public about just how bad he's been 0:12:59.133 --> 0:13:01.813 and until it became just too obvious and they had 0:13:01.813 --> 0:13:05.013 to backtrack. And now he's had to leave. Where does 0:13:05.053 --> 0:13:08.173 that leave us? We don't know, but the fact remains, 0:13:08.333 --> 0:13:13.213 but the election in November will be exceptionally consequential for 0:13:13.333 --> 0:13:16.213 the United States and for the world. And there's a 0:13:16.333 --> 0:13:19.373 number of teams that call us around that. So as 0:13:19.413 --> 0:13:21.333 on how much you want to unpack, but you know, 0:13:21.413 --> 0:13:27.493 the just political stupidity, but the worrying implications for democracy 0:13:27.493 --> 0:13:30.333 of the way in which they have weaponized lawfare against Trump, 0:13:31.373 --> 0:13:33.533 adding to the way they made it impossible for him 0:13:33.573 --> 0:13:36.413 to govern in his first term. How much of that 0:13:36.453 --> 0:13:40.893 has he learned from? Will he from the first day onwards, 0:13:43.293 --> 0:13:45.773 to use his phrase, try to drain the swamp, except 0:13:45.853 --> 0:13:50.053 with more efficiency and determination, perhaps more success this time. 0:13:51.013 --> 0:13:56.893 Because that erosion of democratic freedom, civil liberties, election integrity, 0:13:58.413 --> 0:14:04.653 the institutions, the slide from democratic self governing republics and 0:14:04.733 --> 0:14:09.613 monarchies for that matter, to the administrative administrative state where 0:14:09.653 --> 0:14:17.053 the technocratic elites are in charge, aligned with international elites, 0:14:17.093 --> 0:14:22.773 technocratic elits and organizations, and in collision with the big media, 0:14:22.853 --> 0:14:28.373 big tech, etc. The transformation of democratic politics as we've 0:14:28.413 --> 0:14:32.013 known it in terms of political partisanship and social cievage, 0:14:32.053 --> 0:14:36.813 in the sense that democrats in the US, labor parties 0:14:36.853 --> 0:14:41.093 on the UK, Australia and New Zealand have changed from 0:14:41.973 --> 0:14:45.613 have evolved and changed qua dramatically from their roots and 0:14:45.733 --> 0:14:49.653 workers and working class people into representing the elites. And 0:14:49.693 --> 0:14:54.733 it's the conservative parties now that are increasingly aligning with 0:14:54.813 --> 0:14:59.773 the workers. You see that vigaide defense. You know, if 0:14:59.773 --> 0:15:03.093 you look, well, Kamala Harris another likely to be the 0:15:03.133 --> 0:15:06.333 new presidential candidate. But if you look at these two together, 0:15:06.493 --> 0:15:12.133 it's a good conjunction because between them. Vance is the 0:15:12.133 --> 0:15:14.733 one who has white trash origins, if I may use 0:15:14.773 --> 0:15:22.773 that phrase in this context, from Middletown, Ohio and overcame 0:15:22.853 --> 0:15:28.093 that complete dysfunction, completely dysfunctional family, poor boy, come good, 0:15:29.813 --> 0:15:35.613 worked on self discipline, used education, joined the Marines, then 0:15:35.733 --> 0:15:39.533 used the gi bill, leveraged that background to enroll in 0:15:39.613 --> 0:15:44.813 Ohio State University, graduated, went Yale Law School, graduated from there, 0:15:45.733 --> 0:15:50.293 became a venture capitalist of businessman, entrepreneur, and then entered politics. 0:15:50.693 --> 0:15:53.053 And his book, I assuming you've read it, Hillbilly Elergy. 0:15:53.173 --> 0:15:55.173 I read it some years ago now when it came out. 0:15:56.293 --> 0:16:02.013 It's quite a gripping account of this heart scrabble backstory 0:16:02.053 --> 0:16:07.253 that he has. And he represents one, shall we say, 0:16:07.373 --> 0:16:12.013 leg of the great dream of overcoming your origins, working 0:16:12.053 --> 0:16:17.933 hard and achieving success and financial rewards. But just as importantly, 0:16:18.133 --> 0:16:19.773 and I think at this point has to be made 0:16:19.813 --> 0:16:24.693 as well, his wife, Usha Chili Huri Evans. Now she 0:16:25.933 --> 0:16:31.133 is from middle class, comfortable background for immigrant parents, and 0:16:31.293 --> 0:16:33.693 represents the dream that immigrants have when they come to 0:16:33.733 --> 0:16:37.973 the West of working hard, being rewarded for it, and 0:16:38.053 --> 0:16:40.333 a belief in the rule of law where no one 0:16:40.373 --> 0:16:42.733 is either above the law or below the law. In 0:16:42.733 --> 0:16:45.293 other words, they are subject to the law and bound 0:16:45.293 --> 0:16:47.133 by it, but they also are protected by the law 0:16:47.613 --> 0:16:52.613 against excesses and arbitrary excess as a power. So all 0:16:52.693 --> 0:16:56.213 those things are just being complete that in one sentiday. 0:16:56.293 --> 0:17:00.853 On the other side, surprisingly, by contrast, Kamla Harris is 0:17:00.893 --> 0:17:06.493 the child of privilege and as an adult, the beneficiary 0:17:06.533 --> 0:17:10.133 of political patrileage. And yet in terms of racial avent 0:17:10.213 --> 0:17:12.173 do you think it should be the other around? So 0:17:12.213 --> 0:17:15.693 it's a strange world, but it's a world in transformation. 0:17:15.973 --> 0:17:19.533 In the middle of chaos, with hope it's creative rather 0:17:19.573 --> 0:17:20.333 than destructive. 0:17:20.373 --> 0:17:20.813 Girls. 0:17:20.853 --> 0:17:24.213 Well, I'd very much like to think that you're that 0:17:24.253 --> 0:17:28.453 you're right when you when you said something about the 0:17:28.453 --> 0:17:31.613 two of them, were you talking about about JD and 0:17:31.693 --> 0:17:35.533 his wife or were you referring to him alone? 0:17:35.533 --> 0:17:38.253 When I started off as referring to j Evans comparison 0:17:38.333 --> 0:17:41.013 to Kamala Harris, well, then of course I did segive 0:17:41.173 --> 0:17:43.093 into the two of them in terms of the Vans 0:17:43.133 --> 0:17:43.533 and Vans. 0:17:44.133 --> 0:17:48.413 So what about the combination of Trump and Vance? How 0:17:48.453 --> 0:17:49.333 does that sit with you? 0:17:49.453 --> 0:17:53.453 It's an interesting choice. I was very pleased with that. Uh, 0:17:53.693 --> 0:17:57.133 and we don't will. I guess we might find out 0:17:57.133 --> 0:18:01.173 in due course if his choice might have been different. Oh, 0:18:01.253 --> 0:18:04.173 he was leaning in a different way before the attempt 0:18:04.253 --> 0:18:07.853 on his life. But what happens after that is very 0:18:07.893 --> 0:18:10.773 interesting if you think you threw from his point of view. Firstly, 0:18:11.773 --> 0:18:14.933 I suspect it confirms in his mind that he's going 0:18:15.013 --> 0:18:19.373 to win this year. That attempt and his survival and 0:18:19.413 --> 0:18:21.653 the way he reacted in a sense, is the deed. 0:18:22.733 --> 0:18:25.813 If that's the case, he doesn't need to worry so 0:18:25.893 --> 0:18:30.133 much about a running mate who brings other states or 0:18:30.213 --> 0:18:33.133 other votes to the elected College to add to his. 0:18:33.893 --> 0:18:37.093 He now takes that for granted and thinks, okay, if 0:18:37.133 --> 0:18:41.373 I win, I want my revolution to be institutionalized within 0:18:41.413 --> 0:18:44.533 the party, and I want someone who will carry on 0:18:44.573 --> 0:18:48.693 my legacy. Now, if you think of his first administration 0:18:48.773 --> 0:18:52.093 and the chaos and his senior appointments and the Turner 0:18:52.133 --> 0:18:55.853 were in the senior appointments, the vice president is the 0:18:55.933 --> 0:19:00.413 one person he can't sack elected on the ticket. All 0:19:00.453 --> 0:19:03.693 the other cabinet appointees he can sack. So he needs 0:19:03.733 --> 0:19:08.093 someone that he thinks believes in his vision and in 0:19:08.853 --> 0:19:13.173 and in what he's trying to do. And secondly has 0:19:13.333 --> 0:19:18.133 the strength of character to withstand the attacks that will 0:19:18.173 --> 0:19:21.093 come his way as well. So if you're going to 0:19:21.093 --> 0:19:25.173 embed your legacy, none of the other potential choices would 0:19:25.173 --> 0:19:29.373 have matched what Vance has to offer, whereas some of 0:19:29.493 --> 0:19:32.333 the others would have been better in terms of winning 0:19:32.533 --> 0:19:37.093 State A or State B as well. So there's that consideration. 0:19:38.493 --> 0:19:43.573 Vance is trump Ism without the Trump character flaws. He's articulate, 0:19:44.533 --> 0:19:50.573 he's personable, he's accomplished, he has a stable family. He 0:19:50.613 --> 0:19:54.413 is clearly a devoted a husband and father, and he 0:19:54.533 --> 0:19:57.773 seems to give higher priority to that than to anything else, 0:19:58.053 --> 0:20:01.813 which is understanda will give in his own background. Then 0:20:01.373 --> 0:20:05.053 at the convention he introduces his mother, and I certainly 0:20:05.053 --> 0:20:09.013 hadn't realized since reading the book that the mother has 0:20:09.093 --> 0:20:11.813 been on the mend and has been clean and sober, 0:20:11.813 --> 0:20:14.693 as you put it, for more than nine years, almost 0:20:14.693 --> 0:20:17.333 ten years or ten years will be completed in January. 0:20:17.773 --> 0:20:20.013 So it's quite a compelling story. And I thought he 0:20:20.093 --> 0:20:22.853 spoke very well, and his wife did a good job 0:20:22.933 --> 0:20:26.253 introducing him as well, and I think that will build 0:20:26.293 --> 0:20:28.813 and the two of them together should make an effective 0:20:29.693 --> 0:20:33.293 set of campaigners. So for those reasons, I was actually 0:20:33.333 --> 0:20:35.933 quite pleased with the choice. I think in terms of 0:20:35.933 --> 0:20:39.533 what he's trying to do. You know, Rance is not 0:20:39.613 --> 0:20:43.253 going to have the crude vulgarity that is an inevitable 0:20:43.253 --> 0:20:46.533 part of the baggage of the package that comes with Trump. 0:20:47.733 --> 0:20:50.893 But I think and also both of them are more 0:20:52.133 --> 0:20:59.253 pragmatic conservatives rather than ideological conservatives, and so I think 0:20:59.533 --> 0:21:02.773 they may balance out quite nicely. Vance is supposed to 0:21:02.773 --> 0:21:05.533 be an excellent debater as well, and we've seen glimpses 0:21:05.573 --> 0:21:08.133 of that. So it will be interesting. Now the course 0:21:08.133 --> 0:21:11.253 of focus will turn to who's going to be Kamala 0:21:11.293 --> 0:21:14.653 Harris's running mate, and of course on the final products. 0:21:14.733 --> 0:21:19.333 And now, as someone who's Indian, you've got a bit 0:21:19.373 --> 0:21:23.253 of Indian as a presidential candidate now and one half 0:21:23.293 --> 0:21:26.653 of the advanced package as an Indian background as well. 0:21:27.213 --> 0:21:30.933 So it's spearing to see us in my community doing well. 0:21:31.973 --> 0:21:39.133 The Indians are coming Indians, I hear me, Well, don't mind. 0:21:39.533 --> 0:21:41.493 I don't think soon like did very well as Prime 0:21:41.533 --> 0:21:44.453 Minister in the UK, but Attlea at least you know 0:21:45.013 --> 0:21:47.493 the good about the UK. If if I'm against Sichtra 0:21:47.773 --> 0:21:50.173 is that Indian he was just as he should have 0:21:50.213 --> 0:21:52.773 been all alone on his performance, not on the color 0:21:52.813 --> 0:21:55.493 of his skin. And it's to his everlasting credit that 0:21:55.573 --> 0:21:59.213 he has not blamed any of the results on racial 0:21:59.213 --> 0:22:04.053 discrimination or presidente and the same with Chili Kuri. It's 0:22:04.053 --> 0:22:07.733 a family that relied on hard work and application. No 0:22:07.893 --> 0:22:10.973 one came to favoritism. So I think if you look 0:22:10.973 --> 0:22:14.453 at the Indian overseas Indian community, including in New Zealand, 0:22:15.933 --> 0:22:18.733 they seem to reflect the thing that I argued in 0:22:18.773 --> 0:22:20.613 relation to the voice to be here, and that is 0:22:20.613 --> 0:22:24.613 that I do not seek any privilege or rights is 0:22:24.653 --> 0:22:28.333 not available to every other Australian, but I do want 0:22:28.373 --> 0:22:31.853 to claim rights all the rights that are available to 0:22:31.893 --> 0:22:34.893 any other Australian, So just as on our merits and work, 0:22:35.453 --> 0:22:39.453 not on our inherited characteristics. And that's I'm pleased to 0:22:39.453 --> 0:22:42.813 see that that's a more widespread phenomena as far as 0:22:42.813 --> 0:22:44.733 the overseas Indian community is concerned. 0:22:46.413 --> 0:22:52.573 Now you may mention of the Democrat Party edits Hinchman 0:22:52.853 --> 0:22:57.573 and in the same breath the media and how they 0:22:57.693 --> 0:22:59.573 have deceived, which. 0:22:59.813 --> 0:23:04.053 Deceived, dessembled protected Democrats tried to undermine the Trump first 0:23:04.933 --> 0:23:08.813 administration and his candidacy since then so yes, issues for 0:23:08.853 --> 0:23:09.773 the Democratic Party. 0:23:09.933 --> 0:23:15.213 Yes, So the question, the question becomes, is that rectifiable 0:23:15.973 --> 0:23:19.173 or is it? I mean, they're already back into the game. 0:23:19.213 --> 0:23:22.373 And I'm talking I'm talking specifically the media. Now, I 0:23:22.413 --> 0:23:25.413 mean they have switched sides on two or three occasions, 0:23:25.733 --> 0:23:29.773 the media that we're talking about, the so called legacy media, 0:23:30.013 --> 0:23:32.613 And it's only it's only taken a word from somebody 0:23:32.773 --> 0:23:37.093 like a Bama or to to encourage that and effect 0:23:37.293 --> 0:23:40.973 that switch, so that you know, within a twenty four 0:23:40.973 --> 0:23:44.653 hour period, they're they're they're backing, they're backing Biden. Then 0:23:45.013 --> 0:23:47.293 all of a sudden, they're not backing Biden. And then 0:23:47.533 --> 0:23:50.053 then they were again, at least some of them were. 0:23:51.453 --> 0:23:55.413 And so the inconsistency wall, now that's the wrong thing 0:23:55.453 --> 0:23:59.333 to say, because they're very consistent in their in their approach, 0:24:00.093 --> 0:24:04.133 even though even though there's a large slice of the 0:24:04.173 --> 0:24:10.773 population here as well that realizes that they are dishonest 0:24:11.653 --> 0:24:15.333 and even criminal in some quarters. But it doesn't seem 0:24:15.373 --> 0:24:20.093 to penetrate the bulk of the Democrat Party. 0:24:21.013 --> 0:24:23.293 No, but it has affected the reputation of the media 0:24:24.053 --> 0:24:29.853 and reach. If again, the polls have documented in the 0:24:29.893 --> 0:24:34.293 country after country declining trust in pretty much all the 0:24:34.333 --> 0:24:40.413 major institutions, and in most places the reputation of the 0:24:40.493 --> 0:24:43.053 media is almost the same as that of governments now, 0:24:43.213 --> 0:24:46.533 in other words, very low. This is the legacy media, 0:24:47.373 --> 0:24:49.493 and so more and more people are getting the information 0:24:49.613 --> 0:24:52.253 from other sources. Now. Having said that, I do have 0:24:53.413 --> 0:24:58.333 some sympathy for the legacy media in that clearly they 0:24:58.413 --> 0:25:04.133 have been under great pressure and stress, even from the 0:25:04.213 --> 0:25:09.653 revolutions in technology that has troy the old model of 0:25:11.533 --> 0:25:16.813 if not a generous profitability, at least viable profitability. And 0:25:16.853 --> 0:25:19.253 they're losing money and you saw that. I forget the 0:25:19.653 --> 0:25:22.653 huge amount that the Washington Post has been losing, for example, 0:25:23.813 --> 0:25:26.293 and the owner came and said, you know, you're losing 0:25:26.333 --> 0:25:29.693 this much per day. The people are not interested in 0:25:29.733 --> 0:25:33.813 reading what you're writing. So that message will sooner or 0:25:33.893 --> 0:25:39.373 later I have to either get through or the leading 0:25:39.573 --> 0:25:42.773 examplars of legacy media will die whither are on the vine, 0:25:44.013 --> 0:25:48.573 and the next to come under stress will be the 0:25:48.613 --> 0:25:52.573 publicly funded broadcasters. I don't think those models are viable either. 0:25:52.853 --> 0:25:56.173 I just I think they'll go to subscription model and 0:25:56.213 --> 0:25:58.853 will have to be forced to survive. And of course 0:25:58.973 --> 0:26:01.373 it's not true that it's not necessarily the case that 0:26:01.453 --> 0:26:06.813 the case for publicly funded broadcasting is as valid today 0:26:06.853 --> 0:26:08.293 as it was when they were first set up. 0:26:08.933 --> 0:26:11.813 Well, there's plenty of discussion about it from time to time, 0:26:12.413 --> 0:26:17.613 when when a crisis arises and you find that the 0:26:18.093 --> 0:26:22.613 investment that the population is putting into into the government 0:26:22.693 --> 0:26:27.493 owned benures simply isn't isn't going anywhere and not achieving 0:26:27.493 --> 0:26:31.613 anything now, and and so we we should we should 0:26:31.653 --> 0:26:36.453 move on. I was going to ask you anyway, We've 0:26:36.533 --> 0:26:39.173 we've already discussed a fair bit of politics, but the 0:26:39.213 --> 0:26:43.093 state of the world in general. You with your experience, 0:26:44.453 --> 0:26:48.093 and we've emphasized that on numerous occasions, but your your 0:26:48.253 --> 0:26:52.693 United Nations experience and what came from it. What is 0:26:52.733 --> 0:26:55.373 your interpretation of where the world is at at the 0:26:55.413 --> 0:27:00.013