1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zed B. 3 00:00:12,987 --> 00:00:16,467 Speaker 2: Neil Wagner had one of the great New Zealand Test 4 00:00:16,547 --> 00:00:21,907 Speaker 2: cricket careers. 5 00:00:19,427 --> 00:00:28,547 Speaker 1: Side New Zealand. 6 00:00:30,747 --> 00:00:32,387 Speaker 3: Staling Test Match. 7 00:00:34,947 --> 00:00:37,427 Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the most famous Test matches and Neil 8 00:00:37,467 --> 00:00:40,627 Speaker 2: Wagner front and center for it. He played sixty four 9 00:00:40,987 --> 00:00:44,667 Speaker 2: Test matches for New Zealand, took two hundred and sixty wickets, 10 00:00:44,707 --> 00:00:47,347 Speaker 2: the fifth most by any New Zealand bowler at an 11 00:00:47,347 --> 00:00:50,347 Speaker 2: average of twenty seven point five to seven and an 12 00:00:50,387 --> 00:00:54,907 Speaker 2: exceptional strike rate of a wicket every fifty two deliveries. 13 00:00:55,147 --> 00:00:57,267 Speaker 2: Of the New Zealand bowlers who have taken more than 14 00:00:57,307 --> 00:01:00,907 Speaker 2: one hundred Test wickets, he is second only to Sir 15 00:01:00,987 --> 00:01:03,867 Speaker 2: Richard Hadley in terms of the number of balls bowled 16 00:01:04,107 --> 00:01:07,947 Speaker 2: per wicket taken. But it was his approach to the game, 17 00:01:08,227 --> 00:01:12,307 Speaker 2: his lion hearted attitude, has never say die mentality, and 18 00:01:12,347 --> 00:01:15,827 Speaker 2: his willingness to run and ball after ball, over after over, 19 00:01:16,267 --> 00:01:20,547 Speaker 2: regardless of the conditions or the match situation, and never 20 00:01:20,747 --> 00:01:24,867 Speaker 2: give an opposition better a second's rest, which endeared him 21 00:01:25,067 --> 00:01:29,587 Speaker 2: to New Zealand cricket fans. His autobiography is out it's 22 00:01:30,267 --> 00:01:33,187 Speaker 2: all out and your wager is in studio. Great to 23 00:01:33,187 --> 00:01:36,467 Speaker 2: see you, mate. How did you find the process of 24 00:01:36,507 --> 00:01:37,227 Speaker 2: writing the book. 25 00:01:39,467 --> 00:01:41,987 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got a lot of more respeaks for people 26 00:01:41,987 --> 00:01:44,787 Speaker 4: who write a book now Number one. Number two sort 27 00:01:44,787 --> 00:01:50,147 Speaker 4: of felt like counseling in a way a little bit. Yeah, 28 00:01:48,547 --> 00:01:52,107 Speaker 4: it was. It wasn't easy to obviously get a lot 29 00:01:52,107 --> 00:01:55,107 Speaker 4: of stuff out that a lot of things that my 30 00:01:55,187 --> 00:01:58,347 Speaker 4: family member's, close friends, a lot of people wouldn't have 31 00:01:58,347 --> 00:02:00,667 Speaker 4: known about me. You sort of had to give them 32 00:02:00,667 --> 00:02:03,027 Speaker 4: a heads up before the book obviously came out to 33 00:02:03,067 --> 00:02:05,067 Speaker 4: say hey, so that they don't read it in there 34 00:02:05,067 --> 00:02:08,027 Speaker 4: for the first time. But to open up and sort 35 00:02:08,027 --> 00:02:11,387 Speaker 4: of put everything out there. It's not easy. You know 36 00:02:11,387 --> 00:02:14,707 Speaker 4: everyone's going to know everything about you. But personally wanted 37 00:02:14,747 --> 00:02:17,747 Speaker 4: to make an impact and tell a pretty cool story 38 00:02:17,747 --> 00:02:19,747 Speaker 4: that you know, my career has sort of been through 39 00:02:19,787 --> 00:02:23,627 Speaker 4: and what I've went through. So so, yeah, hopefully can 40 00:02:23,667 --> 00:02:26,707 Speaker 4: make an impact in one person's life, I'll be pretty satisfied. 41 00:02:27,507 --> 00:02:31,507 Speaker 2: Sometimes cricket auto biographies in particular can become a bit 42 00:02:31,547 --> 00:02:33,507 Speaker 2: of a list of games that you played and the 43 00:02:33,587 --> 00:02:35,587 Speaker 2: runs you scored, the work at you took, that sort 44 00:02:35,627 --> 00:02:38,027 Speaker 2: of thing. But this book is so much more than that, 45 00:02:38,187 --> 00:02:41,707 Speaker 2: as you've just alluded to there. How keen were you 46 00:02:41,787 --> 00:02:44,547 Speaker 2: for it to be a true account of the many 47 00:02:44,667 --> 00:02:46,067 Speaker 2: ups and downs in your life? 48 00:02:46,947 --> 00:02:47,187 Speaker 4: Yeah? 49 00:02:47,227 --> 00:02:48,787 Speaker 3: I think there was the reason why I, you know, 50 00:02:49,067 --> 00:02:50,747 Speaker 3: wanted to write a book. At first. 51 00:02:51,107 --> 00:02:53,747 Speaker 4: You know, I got hounded by James Roader, the writer 52 00:02:53,947 --> 00:02:55,707 Speaker 4: to write this book, and I. 53 00:02:55,707 --> 00:02:57,347 Speaker 3: Kept saying, nah, nah, I don't want to do it. 54 00:02:57,347 --> 00:02:58,067 Speaker 3: I don't want to do it. 55 00:02:58,667 --> 00:03:00,747 Speaker 4: You know, I hate making anything sort of about me 56 00:03:00,947 --> 00:03:02,547 Speaker 4: or something like that, so I was a little bit 57 00:03:02,587 --> 00:03:06,467 Speaker 4: against it. And yeah, after you know, retirement and and 58 00:03:06,507 --> 00:03:09,187 Speaker 4: sitting down reflecting, and you know, I had a couple 59 00:03:09,227 --> 00:03:11,667 Speaker 4: of a couple of whiskeys one night with my wife 60 00:03:11,707 --> 00:03:14,307 Speaker 4: sitting down, and I rang them up and said, let's 61 00:03:14,347 --> 00:03:16,547 Speaker 4: write this book and put it on paper because I'll 62 00:03:16,627 --> 00:03:17,587 Speaker 4: change my mind tomorrow. 63 00:03:18,667 --> 00:03:20,107 Speaker 3: And then I thought, you know, I'm going to have 64 00:03:20,147 --> 00:03:21,147 Speaker 3: to go all out here. 65 00:03:21,187 --> 00:03:22,707 Speaker 4: I'm going to have to try and try and explain 66 00:03:22,747 --> 00:03:27,187 Speaker 4: and give a real in depth I guess sort of background, 67 00:03:27,187 --> 00:03:31,467 Speaker 4: and I guess tell the whole story and people might 68 00:03:31,547 --> 00:03:33,787 Speaker 4: understand a little bit more and see why, you know, 69 00:03:33,827 --> 00:03:36,547 Speaker 4: my veins popped every time I guess celebrated wicket and 70 00:03:37,307 --> 00:03:40,427 Speaker 4: got extremely animated. I think this will give a lot 71 00:03:40,427 --> 00:03:43,507 Speaker 4: of people a lot of insight and reasons behind the 72 00:03:43,587 --> 00:03:45,947 Speaker 4: scenes and will know a lot more well. 73 00:03:45,987 --> 00:03:49,187 Speaker 2: It certainly did for me. It's a terrific read. Neil, 74 00:03:49,227 --> 00:03:52,707 Speaker 2: congratulations on it. I know many people will find it 75 00:03:52,747 --> 00:03:56,107 Speaker 2: hard to correlate the confidence with which you played your cricket. 76 00:03:56,507 --> 00:03:58,547 Speaker 2: You know that, as you say that, how pumped up 77 00:03:58,587 --> 00:04:02,347 Speaker 2: you were, how outwardly exuberant you always were with the 78 00:04:02,347 --> 00:04:05,667 Speaker 2: off field challenges you talk about in the book at 79 00:04:05,707 --> 00:04:08,427 Speaker 2: its worst, the self doubt that you talk about in 80 00:04:08,427 --> 00:04:11,107 Speaker 2: the book at its worst, How bad was that? 81 00:04:11,987 --> 00:04:12,187 Speaker 3: Yeah? 82 00:04:12,187 --> 00:04:16,467 Speaker 4: Extremely bad at times when when you're on the fringe 83 00:04:16,507 --> 00:04:17,787 Speaker 4: and you don't know if you're going to play or not. 84 00:04:18,387 --> 00:04:20,027 Speaker 4: You know, you find out the morning of the teast 85 00:04:20,067 --> 00:04:21,987 Speaker 4: if you're going to be twelve and you're playing the 86 00:04:22,067 --> 00:04:25,707 Speaker 4: night before, not being able to sleep, you know, worrying 87 00:04:25,707 --> 00:04:27,907 Speaker 4: about if you're going to play or not, the uncontrollable 88 00:04:27,907 --> 00:04:29,227 Speaker 4: things of you. 89 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:30,107 Speaker 3: You're sort of just you. 90 00:04:30,027 --> 00:04:33,387 Speaker 4: Know, playing around your head and then finding out you're 91 00:04:33,387 --> 00:04:33,827 Speaker 4: not playing. 92 00:04:33,907 --> 00:04:34,507 Speaker 3: Was disappointed. 93 00:04:34,507 --> 00:04:37,227 Speaker 4: But then when you do play, you're excited, but then 94 00:04:37,267 --> 00:04:40,947 Speaker 4: the nerves straight away kick then the anxiety, I guess, 95 00:04:40,947 --> 00:04:43,747 Speaker 4: the fear of failure, those sort of things. You know, 96 00:04:43,747 --> 00:04:45,947 Speaker 4: when you've done one your career but you don't get 97 00:04:45,987 --> 00:04:49,707 Speaker 4: a chance in white ball, cricket or and other things, 98 00:04:49,747 --> 00:04:51,787 Speaker 4: you sort of doubt yourself, you know, like are you 99 00:04:51,907 --> 00:04:53,987 Speaker 4: just you know, having a bit of luck or you know, 100 00:04:54,107 --> 00:04:56,147 Speaker 4: are you actually good enough? Why you're not seen to 101 00:04:56,867 --> 00:04:59,227 Speaker 4: I guess get you know, go to another step further, 102 00:04:59,787 --> 00:05:03,187 Speaker 4: or do better or do more. You know, there's there's 103 00:05:03,227 --> 00:05:05,987 Speaker 4: a lot of anxiety around that. And then when you 104 00:05:06,027 --> 00:05:09,627 Speaker 4: did well and performed, was to keep performing and keep 105 00:05:09,667 --> 00:05:12,427 Speaker 4: doing well. And then we had extremely good crop of 106 00:05:12,467 --> 00:05:15,027 Speaker 4: fast ballers around bringing down your neck the whole time. 107 00:05:15,067 --> 00:05:16,987 Speaker 4: Seeing you had to be at the top of your game. 108 00:05:17,267 --> 00:05:19,427 Speaker 4: Any anytime you sort of slip up, someone else is 109 00:05:19,867 --> 00:05:22,347 Speaker 4: going to take that opportunity and that could be a 110 00:05:22,387 --> 00:05:25,387 Speaker 4: career over. So yeah, that came with a lot of 111 00:05:25,427 --> 00:05:27,707 Speaker 4: challenges on and off the field. Came a lot of 112 00:05:27,707 --> 00:05:30,107 Speaker 4: things that you had to try and put aside because 113 00:05:30,107 --> 00:05:33,907 Speaker 4: I was tiring and it was draining mentally, it was 114 00:05:33,947 --> 00:05:34,787 Speaker 4: definitely fatiguing. 115 00:05:34,947 --> 00:05:38,627 Speaker 3: So for me, it was quite nice. 116 00:05:38,467 --> 00:05:41,427 Speaker 4: That I could channel that I guess stuff and to 117 00:05:41,747 --> 00:05:42,667 Speaker 4: bowling bounces, I. 118 00:05:42,587 --> 00:05:46,267 Speaker 2: Guess indeed, I want to talk about some of the highs. 119 00:05:46,267 --> 00:05:48,387 Speaker 2: But but first of all, when do you reckon you 120 00:05:48,387 --> 00:05:52,067 Speaker 2: were bowling at your absolute best? Is there a sweet 121 00:05:52,107 --> 00:05:53,987 Speaker 2: spot in your career? 122 00:05:54,707 --> 00:06:00,467 Speaker 4: Yeah, I definitely fill two and sixteen, probably two, you know, 123 00:06:00,787 --> 00:06:03,867 Speaker 4: I think a year before I retired it was probably 124 00:06:04,107 --> 00:06:07,787 Speaker 4: the best. I think, you know, as situation sort of 125 00:06:07,787 --> 00:06:09,907 Speaker 4: went on, as you grew in confidence, as you had 126 00:06:10,227 --> 00:06:13,867 Speaker 4: I guess you could put away that fear and anxiety 127 00:06:13,907 --> 00:06:15,587 Speaker 4: in that streets when your place got a little bit 128 00:06:15,587 --> 00:06:17,107 Speaker 4: more cemented and you knew we're going to play and 129 00:06:17,107 --> 00:06:18,907 Speaker 4: you can park those things up and you had a 130 00:06:18,907 --> 00:06:21,387 Speaker 4: good night's sleep beforehand, and you can just worry about 131 00:06:21,387 --> 00:06:23,947 Speaker 4: the job that you need to do. But once you 132 00:06:24,067 --> 00:06:27,587 Speaker 4: had a bit more experience it wasn't new, and you 133 00:06:27,627 --> 00:06:30,067 Speaker 4: had a couple of games behind your belt, it became easier. 134 00:06:30,067 --> 00:06:32,467 Speaker 4: And then it was sort of just get stuck into 135 00:06:32,467 --> 00:06:34,867 Speaker 4: your work sort of thing, you know, and the rhythm 136 00:06:34,947 --> 00:06:36,747 Speaker 4: was sort of there, and things sort of felt like 137 00:06:36,787 --> 00:06:40,787 Speaker 4: it was easier to kind of deal with the other challenges. 138 00:06:40,907 --> 00:06:43,787 Speaker 4: Was tough with your body when you had to you know, 139 00:06:44,107 --> 00:06:46,707 Speaker 4: they aches and pains and you know, the soreness. You 140 00:06:46,747 --> 00:06:50,027 Speaker 4: had to try and go through that and buite through it. 141 00:06:50,467 --> 00:06:52,827 Speaker 4: There was a challenge with it itself as well, where 142 00:06:53,147 --> 00:06:55,107 Speaker 4: you know, there's times you felt like maybe you should 143 00:06:55,507 --> 00:06:58,147 Speaker 4: sit this one out, but then I was just thinking 144 00:06:58,187 --> 00:07:00,387 Speaker 4: deep and it was amazing to see what you could 145 00:07:00,427 --> 00:07:02,067 Speaker 4: then do, what you could achieve. You know, how far 146 00:07:02,147 --> 00:07:04,267 Speaker 4: you could actually push your body, and where I thought 147 00:07:04,267 --> 00:07:05,587 Speaker 4: I couldn't play that test, all of a sudden you 148 00:07:05,587 --> 00:07:07,507 Speaker 4: played a whole series, played three Test matches and. 149 00:07:07,467 --> 00:07:08,667 Speaker 3: Got through it. 150 00:07:08,667 --> 00:07:10,987 Speaker 4: It was amazing to see and that gave yourself again 151 00:07:11,027 --> 00:07:12,747 Speaker 4: that confidence to be able to know how far you 152 00:07:12,747 --> 00:07:13,507 Speaker 4: can push your body. 153 00:07:14,267 --> 00:07:16,107 Speaker 2: I want to ask you about a couple of specific 154 00:07:16,147 --> 00:07:18,787 Speaker 2: Test matches which fall towards the back end of your career. 155 00:07:19,027 --> 00:07:23,707 Speaker 2: The World Test Championship final win over India twenty twenty one. 156 00:07:24,187 --> 00:07:25,827 Speaker 2: I love your account of it in the book, and 157 00:07:26,387 --> 00:07:29,947 Speaker 2: I love Trent Bolt saying as Kan and Ross Taylor 158 00:07:30,027 --> 00:07:31,707 Speaker 2: out there, Look, if you have to go and you 159 00:07:31,747 --> 00:07:34,267 Speaker 2: could get ted runs, you could get ted runs, I 160 00:07:34,307 --> 00:07:36,787 Speaker 2: could get five runs. We're going to get there. I mean, 161 00:07:36,987 --> 00:07:38,747 Speaker 2: that's a great memory. But what are your most vivid 162 00:07:38,787 --> 00:07:40,707 Speaker 2: memories of the World Test Championship win. 163 00:07:41,347 --> 00:07:43,467 Speaker 4: That was probably the longest test of my whole career, 164 00:07:44,707 --> 00:07:46,907 Speaker 4: not just because it had six days with the extra day. 165 00:07:47,067 --> 00:07:47,787 Speaker 3: It was because we. 166 00:07:47,827 --> 00:07:51,067 Speaker 4: Stayed at the ground and your room staring looking at 167 00:07:51,107 --> 00:07:53,707 Speaker 4: the ground, waking up six o'clock in the morning and 168 00:07:53,707 --> 00:07:55,907 Speaker 4: you can hear the carvers coming off and the lawnmow 169 00:07:55,987 --> 00:07:58,867 Speaker 4: starting up and working and stuff like that. It was 170 00:07:58,907 --> 00:08:01,667 Speaker 4: pretty surreal because we normally don't stay at the ground. 171 00:08:01,707 --> 00:08:03,067 Speaker 4: You sort of drive in with a bus and you 172 00:08:03,187 --> 00:08:05,867 Speaker 4: sort of far away. But it just felt like you 173 00:08:05,907 --> 00:08:09,187 Speaker 4: were con this game and the at the ground and 174 00:08:09,387 --> 00:08:14,707 Speaker 4: never a way So that was extremely draining afterwards. But yeah, 175 00:08:14,747 --> 00:08:16,627 Speaker 4: it was an amazing test to be a part of. 176 00:08:16,787 --> 00:08:19,827 Speaker 4: Just the EBB and flover sitting around waiting with whether 177 00:08:21,107 --> 00:08:22,667 Speaker 4: so many things have happened in it. But it was 178 00:08:22,787 --> 00:08:25,027 Speaker 4: just an amazing game of cricket to be involved in, 179 00:08:25,067 --> 00:08:27,667 Speaker 4: and definitely obviously for me the pinnacle of the game. 180 00:08:27,707 --> 00:08:30,667 Speaker 4: And to be able to beat an India team equality 181 00:08:30,707 --> 00:08:34,027 Speaker 4: team in a final like that was. 182 00:08:33,267 --> 00:08:33,987 Speaker 3: Was high quality. 183 00:08:33,987 --> 00:08:36,547 Speaker 4: And here we've gone this team and back that up 184 00:08:36,787 --> 00:08:40,587 Speaker 4: and beat them three all in India over the past months. 185 00:08:40,667 --> 00:08:42,707 Speaker 4: An amazing achievement and that will be the pinnacle of 186 00:08:42,707 --> 00:08:44,547 Speaker 4: I guess and a lot of those guys career as 187 00:08:44,667 --> 00:08:46,387 Speaker 4: one of the best achievements they would have ever had. 188 00:08:47,507 --> 00:08:51,267 Speaker 2: The one run win over England at the basin after 189 00:08:51,307 --> 00:08:54,987 Speaker 2: following on. Take us inside your head as you line 190 00:08:55,067 --> 00:08:57,387 Speaker 2: up to bowlder Jimmy Anderson, England and nine down they 191 00:08:57,427 --> 00:08:58,267 Speaker 2: need to to win. 192 00:08:58,627 --> 00:09:00,787 Speaker 4: Again, the ebbs and flows of the game where you 193 00:09:00,827 --> 00:09:03,827 Speaker 4: feel like in control. You feel like, you know, we've 194 00:09:03,827 --> 00:09:07,307 Speaker 4: done hard work. We've gone through two innings after being 195 00:09:07,307 --> 00:09:10,867 Speaker 4: made follow on. You know, the man of work those 196 00:09:10,907 --> 00:09:12,707 Speaker 4: batt put into to get us in a good position, 197 00:09:12,787 --> 00:09:14,227 Speaker 4: and all of a sudden, a couple of wickets full 198 00:09:14,307 --> 00:09:16,307 Speaker 4: you feel like you're going to you know, this is it, 199 00:09:16,347 --> 00:09:18,507 Speaker 4: We're going to win this game. Then a partnership between 200 00:09:18,747 --> 00:09:21,267 Speaker 4: Stokes and Roots sort of brings that back down again 201 00:09:21,307 --> 00:09:23,987 Speaker 4: and put you under pressure and finally get their wickets 202 00:09:23,987 --> 00:09:25,267 Speaker 4: and you feel like, okay, this is it. 203 00:09:25,307 --> 00:09:27,107 Speaker 3: This is the moment too. You know we've got a 204 00:09:27,107 --> 00:09:27,627 Speaker 3: sniff here. 205 00:09:27,667 --> 00:09:30,907 Speaker 4: And then James Anderson pulls me through Kane's legs out 206 00:09:30,907 --> 00:09:33,187 Speaker 4: of nowhere for four and I thought, Jesus, is it. 207 00:09:33,227 --> 00:09:34,187 Speaker 3: You know it's not meant to be. 208 00:09:35,187 --> 00:09:36,387 Speaker 4: You've got to get back to your top of your 209 00:09:36,387 --> 00:09:38,747 Speaker 4: mark and you know, put that behind you and find 210 00:09:38,747 --> 00:09:41,987 Speaker 4: a way of doing something, believing that we can win 211 00:09:42,027 --> 00:09:45,067 Speaker 4: this and thank goodness, will a little tickle down legs side, 212 00:09:45,067 --> 00:09:47,907 Speaker 4: But yeah, it was. It was definitely, you know, the 213 00:09:47,987 --> 00:09:50,347 Speaker 4: highlight of a career, something that you know you look 214 00:09:50,387 --> 00:09:53,827 Speaker 4: back on fondly and always remember. And the moments afterwards 215 00:09:53,867 --> 00:09:55,667 Speaker 4: in the change room of your your mates, you know, 216 00:09:56,267 --> 00:09:59,027 Speaker 4: drinking a couple of nice cold beers. Those are the 217 00:09:59,387 --> 00:10:01,947 Speaker 4: moments you can remember, the smile on everyone's faces, and 218 00:10:01,987 --> 00:10:03,067 Speaker 4: it's the thing you miss the most. 219 00:10:04,027 --> 00:10:06,827 Speaker 2: The next teest after that trianchor in christ at the 220 00:10:06,867 --> 00:10:10,027 Speaker 2: end of that summer, you've got a torn hamstring and 221 00:10:10,107 --> 00:10:12,867 Speaker 2: a bulging disc in your back, chasing two eighty five 222 00:10:12,907 --> 00:10:15,387 Speaker 2: to win. Matt Henry gets out five to win. You 223 00:10:15,427 --> 00:10:18,387 Speaker 2: go out there to join Kine with one run to win. 224 00:10:18,507 --> 00:10:21,627 Speaker 2: You sprint twenty meters dive fall length with a torn 225 00:10:21,627 --> 00:10:24,387 Speaker 2: hamstring and a bulging disk in your back to run 226 00:10:24,427 --> 00:10:27,627 Speaker 2: the buy that wins the game. On your thirty seventh birthday. 227 00:10:27,667 --> 00:10:31,427 Speaker 2: I mean, come on, God, that's up there. 228 00:10:31,467 --> 00:10:33,907 Speaker 3: Yeah, I had to do something. 229 00:10:34,027 --> 00:10:36,827 Speaker 4: I was bloody frustrated that I got injured, and you know, 230 00:10:37,267 --> 00:10:39,547 Speaker 4: not playing a part of the game and sitting there watching, 231 00:10:39,547 --> 00:10:40,787 Speaker 4: you know, you feel helpless. It was. 232 00:10:41,227 --> 00:10:41,787 Speaker 3: It's one of the. 233 00:10:41,707 --> 00:10:43,627 Speaker 4: Worst things as sports when you're they're injured in the 234 00:10:43,667 --> 00:10:45,867 Speaker 4: side and you watch your mates, you know, grinding away, 235 00:10:45,907 --> 00:10:47,827 Speaker 4: and I just felt like I want to do something. 236 00:10:47,867 --> 00:10:49,747 Speaker 4: I wanted to contribute somewhere, you know, you want to 237 00:10:50,027 --> 00:10:53,187 Speaker 4: get amongst it. And it's amazing thing and drilling and 238 00:10:53,227 --> 00:10:56,427 Speaker 4: a couple of painkillers what it can do. Chogged out 239 00:10:56,467 --> 00:10:58,947 Speaker 4: there and sort of tested the hamstring out and loot, Yeah, 240 00:10:58,947 --> 00:11:00,627 Speaker 4: I can do this. Until I started running their foot 241 00:11:00,707 --> 00:11:03,507 Speaker 4: that run, I felt like I was pulling an eighteen 242 00:11:03,547 --> 00:11:06,987 Speaker 4: year old truck, but eventually got there. But yeah, it 243 00:11:07,027 --> 00:11:08,827 Speaker 4: was It was just nice to be out there, I 244 00:11:08,827 --> 00:11:11,747 Speaker 4: guess in a moment where Caine played such an amazing 245 00:11:11,747 --> 00:11:14,307 Speaker 4: innings instead of us home. You know, he's done it 246 00:11:14,347 --> 00:11:16,627 Speaker 4: so many times, but to be there, I guess again, 247 00:11:16,667 --> 00:11:20,507 Speaker 4: in the most of it and a part of it, 248 00:11:20,507 --> 00:11:22,987 Speaker 4: it was a huge, a huge privilege and a huge honor, 249 00:11:23,547 --> 00:11:25,627 Speaker 4: you know, to to represent his zeland, but to be 250 00:11:25,667 --> 00:11:28,747 Speaker 4: there in a winning a moment like that as yeah, 251 00:11:28,747 --> 00:11:29,547 Speaker 4: as pretty special. 252 00:11:30,427 --> 00:11:32,587 Speaker 2: Now can you talk us through the conversations that led 253 00:11:32,587 --> 00:11:34,027 Speaker 2: to your international retirement. 254 00:11:35,147 --> 00:11:35,907 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was tough. 255 00:11:37,067 --> 00:11:38,547 Speaker 4: There was one of the hardest things I think I've 256 00:11:38,547 --> 00:11:43,427 Speaker 4: ever had to go through as a sportsman, as a player. 257 00:11:43,467 --> 00:11:45,307 Speaker 4: You know, when you feel like you still have something 258 00:11:45,307 --> 00:11:47,667 Speaker 4: to offer and you're there, you know, yeah, age is 259 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:50,427 Speaker 4: for me personally, just a number. I'm still playing cricket 260 00:11:50,427 --> 00:11:52,827 Speaker 4: the moment domestically and still feel like, you know, you 261 00:11:52,827 --> 00:11:55,787 Speaker 4: can get a job done. But you know, I kind 262 00:11:55,787 --> 00:11:58,507 Speaker 4: of feel like, yeah, when when you're not doing as 263 00:11:58,547 --> 00:12:00,027 Speaker 4: well or you know you're going through a bit of 264 00:12:00,227 --> 00:12:03,147 Speaker 4: a tough patch. Sometimes it's part a parcel of this 265 00:12:03,267 --> 00:12:05,467 Speaker 4: sport and the nature of it, and you know you're 266 00:12:05,467 --> 00:12:07,827 Speaker 4: only one get him away from from that swinging round 267 00:12:07,947 --> 00:12:10,427 Speaker 4: and you know what you can do with the experience 268 00:12:10,507 --> 00:12:13,307 Speaker 4: you've you've gone through throughout the years, and and sort 269 00:12:13,307 --> 00:12:14,907 Speaker 4: of felt like, you know, I still had a bit 270 00:12:14,947 --> 00:12:19,667 Speaker 4: to offer to to get pulled up aside, and you know, 271 00:12:19,987 --> 00:12:22,147 Speaker 4: I guess theah the words where you know gets told 272 00:12:22,147 --> 00:12:24,267 Speaker 4: you your your career is over and we think you 273 00:12:24,307 --> 00:12:25,067 Speaker 4: should retires. 274 00:12:26,067 --> 00:12:28,547 Speaker 3: It's tough, you know, you know, it. 275 00:12:28,547 --> 00:12:31,147 Speaker 4: Took a while to to sink in. It took a 276 00:12:31,147 --> 00:12:34,987 Speaker 4: while to to realize that, you know, for the team 277 00:12:35,027 --> 00:12:36,827 Speaker 4: and for the best thing forward that it might be 278 00:12:36,827 --> 00:12:38,467 Speaker 4: the right decision and it's something that I am going 279 00:12:38,507 --> 00:12:42,467 Speaker 4: to have to do, and you know, you think about 280 00:12:42,507 --> 00:12:44,787 Speaker 4: the team first, I guess in that moment. But yeah, 281 00:12:44,827 --> 00:12:47,387 Speaker 4: it wasn't easy. It's it's a tough thing. And like 282 00:12:47,427 --> 00:12:49,507 Speaker 4: I said, when you when you treasure something so much 283 00:12:49,507 --> 00:12:51,067 Speaker 4: and it's been such a big part of you for 284 00:12:51,107 --> 00:12:53,787 Speaker 4: so long and you want to be out there to 285 00:12:53,787 --> 00:12:56,907 Speaker 4: to create more memories, to know that it just stops 286 00:12:56,907 --> 00:13:01,347 Speaker 4: an instant like that, Yeah it wasn't easy, but hey, 287 00:13:01,387 --> 00:13:04,187 Speaker 4: it's part of life and part of a sportsman's journey, 288 00:13:04,227 --> 00:13:07,347 Speaker 4: I guess in a way. And again that's what I 289 00:13:07,347 --> 00:13:09,107 Speaker 4: wanted to try and get across in this book because 290 00:13:09,147 --> 00:13:12,067 Speaker 4: the learnings of that is that I'm probably not the 291 00:13:12,067 --> 00:13:14,507 Speaker 4: only guy to go through this. I probably won't be 292 00:13:14,547 --> 00:13:17,827 Speaker 4: the only guy to go through this, and other people 293 00:13:17,867 --> 00:13:18,707 Speaker 4: will go through it as well. 294 00:13:18,747 --> 00:13:21,787 Speaker 3: The mental stuff with that afterwards again was brutal. 295 00:13:22,347 --> 00:13:24,707 Speaker 4: You know, the lows you feel with that and having 296 00:13:24,707 --> 00:13:28,347 Speaker 4: to pick yourself up again and go again, it's pretty tough. 297 00:13:28,387 --> 00:13:30,227 Speaker 4: And that's what I wanted to try and achieve out 298 00:13:30,267 --> 00:13:32,987 Speaker 4: of this book is to hopefully have an impact in 299 00:13:33,027 --> 00:13:34,947 Speaker 4: someone's life, because I know about a couple of people 300 00:13:34,947 --> 00:13:36,427 Speaker 4: doing it pretty tough out there at the moment. 301 00:13:37,147 --> 00:13:38,747 Speaker 3: They're not alone. There's a lot of people go through 302 00:13:38,747 --> 00:13:40,707 Speaker 3: these sort of things. Of course. 303 00:13:40,747 --> 00:13:42,707 Speaker 2: The two guys so you had the conversation worth or 304 00:13:42,707 --> 00:13:44,987 Speaker 2: two of them were Gary Stead and Tim Soudy, coach 305 00:13:45,107 --> 00:13:47,987 Speaker 2: and captain at the time. How's your relationship with those 306 00:13:47,987 --> 00:13:48,427 Speaker 2: two guys? 307 00:13:48,467 --> 00:13:52,067 Speaker 4: Now, I've got a very good relationship with Tim, you know. 308 00:13:52,147 --> 00:13:54,547 Speaker 4: I've you know, sent him a text last night again 309 00:13:54,627 --> 00:13:55,507 Speaker 4: congratulating him with this. 310 00:13:56,067 --> 00:13:57,987 Speaker 3: You know, he is a good mate. 311 00:13:58,067 --> 00:14:00,307 Speaker 4: We've we've shared the change room, you know, and some 312 00:14:00,427 --> 00:14:05,067 Speaker 4: real highs and lows together and a huge friendship and 313 00:14:05,387 --> 00:14:07,507 Speaker 4: we'll be friends a life, you know. It's one thing 314 00:14:07,507 --> 00:14:09,467 Speaker 4: of this whole black cap set up. It's been pretty 315 00:14:09,507 --> 00:14:13,907 Speaker 4: amazing in that sense. And with Gary, you know, I 316 00:14:13,907 --> 00:14:16,947 Speaker 4: don't think it could have been easy for him. I 317 00:14:16,987 --> 00:14:19,547 Speaker 4: haven't really spoken to him after that, but I know, 318 00:14:19,787 --> 00:14:22,747 Speaker 4: you know, as a coach, it can't be it can't 319 00:14:22,787 --> 00:14:25,267 Speaker 4: be easy thing to do, and it's part of your job, 320 00:14:25,307 --> 00:14:29,307 Speaker 4: I guess in nature. But yeah, haven't really really spoken 321 00:14:29,347 --> 00:14:31,707 Speaker 4: to him afterwards. But yeah, somewhere somewhere down the line 322 00:14:31,707 --> 00:14:33,667 Speaker 4: will probably sit down every somewhere. 323 00:14:35,027 --> 00:14:39,867 Speaker 2: What drove you to give absolutely everything you did when 324 00:14:39,907 --> 00:14:41,907 Speaker 2: you had not just the silver fern on your chest 325 00:14:41,907 --> 00:14:45,987 Speaker 2: but any cricket shirt on. What where did that drive 326 00:14:46,827 --> 00:14:48,867 Speaker 2: come from? 327 00:14:48,987 --> 00:14:49,587 Speaker 3: Yeah? 328 00:14:49,747 --> 00:14:53,027 Speaker 4: The once in will to you know, I guess achieve 329 00:14:53,067 --> 00:14:54,867 Speaker 4: your dream and your goal that you wanted to do 330 00:14:55,027 --> 00:14:57,667 Speaker 4: number one, but number two, having felt throughout your whole 331 00:14:57,707 --> 00:15:00,147 Speaker 4: life that you're not really getting back to or people 332 00:15:00,227 --> 00:15:03,747 Speaker 4: don't really see what you feel or believe that you 333 00:15:03,787 --> 00:15:07,507 Speaker 4: can do. You know, you don't really get the backing, 334 00:15:07,627 --> 00:15:10,187 Speaker 4: or you don't really feel like people believe that you 335 00:15:10,227 --> 00:15:10,587 Speaker 4: can do. 336 00:15:10,787 --> 00:15:12,987 Speaker 3: I guess the job as good as other people can. 337 00:15:13,067 --> 00:15:16,307 Speaker 4: And so for me it was ultimately, you know, you 338 00:15:16,347 --> 00:15:18,027 Speaker 4: sort of always felt like you beck a little bit 339 00:15:18,027 --> 00:15:19,547 Speaker 4: against the wall and you've got to go out and 340 00:15:19,627 --> 00:15:23,227 Speaker 4: prove yourself over and over again. And I just had 341 00:15:23,427 --> 00:15:26,267 Speaker 4: to find this way of trying to prove people wrong 342 00:15:26,307 --> 00:15:28,587 Speaker 4: and show them and say, hey, I can do this job, 343 00:15:28,627 --> 00:15:31,347 Speaker 4: and I'll do it all day long. And that drove 344 00:15:31,387 --> 00:15:33,987 Speaker 4: me to you know, stand up the whole time. The 345 00:15:33,987 --> 00:15:36,507 Speaker 4: amount of times they had to fall down and get 346 00:15:36,547 --> 00:15:39,747 Speaker 4: back up again was sort of something that told you 347 00:15:39,787 --> 00:15:42,347 Speaker 4: a lot and I guess my wife was a huge 348 00:15:42,427 --> 00:15:45,227 Speaker 4: driver beyond the scenes with a lot of things, the 349 00:15:45,267 --> 00:15:47,707 Speaker 4: stuff she had to go through as well, and the 350 00:15:47,747 --> 00:15:50,227 Speaker 4: support she had to give me for my family and 351 00:15:50,227 --> 00:15:52,747 Speaker 4: stuff like that. You know, I knew it's a little 352 00:15:52,787 --> 00:15:54,187 Speaker 4: bit more than just playing for myself. 353 00:15:54,547 --> 00:15:55,547 Speaker 3: You're representing them. 354 00:15:55,947 --> 00:15:58,707 Speaker 4: You're playing for them as well, and to give them 355 00:15:58,747 --> 00:16:00,267 Speaker 4: a better life and put a roof over your head. 356 00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:02,307 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of stuff writing on this, 357 00:16:02,427 --> 00:16:04,547 Speaker 4: so you had to try and find a way and 358 00:16:05,467 --> 00:16:07,107 Speaker 4: there swee all their passion and sort of came in 359 00:16:07,147 --> 00:16:09,747 Speaker 4: and tried to deliver every time. I, you know, had 360 00:16:09,827 --> 00:16:11,027 Speaker 4: that fund on my chest. 361 00:16:11,707 --> 00:16:13,227 Speaker 2: Do you ever wonder what would have happened if you 362 00:16:13,267 --> 00:16:15,147 Speaker 2: hadn't accepted the offer to come to Otaga. 363 00:16:15,907 --> 00:16:19,067 Speaker 3: Gosh, I'll probably still live in my parents. I don't know. 364 00:16:21,907 --> 00:16:24,987 Speaker 4: Gosh, I've been trying to find some sort of job somewhere. Yeah, 365 00:16:26,067 --> 00:16:27,587 Speaker 4: I don't know. It would have been a tough one. 366 00:16:28,587 --> 00:16:30,667 Speaker 4: There's so many ways we could look at it. I 367 00:16:30,707 --> 00:16:33,347 Speaker 4: don't know what have happened if I signed a county contract, 368 00:16:33,507 --> 00:16:36,907 Speaker 4: you know for two years, it would have been a considerb. 369 00:16:36,747 --> 00:16:37,667 Speaker 3: More amount of money. 370 00:16:38,107 --> 00:16:39,467 Speaker 4: You know, If I would have just finished as a 371 00:16:39,507 --> 00:16:42,347 Speaker 4: county cricket player, or just you know, it might have 372 00:16:42,507 --> 00:16:44,787 Speaker 4: gone a different route and not play cricket as long 373 00:16:44,827 --> 00:16:48,387 Speaker 4: as I have or achieve what I have. But yeah, 374 00:16:49,467 --> 00:16:53,387 Speaker 4: no way do I ever had any thoughts of looking back, 375 00:16:53,427 --> 00:16:54,667 Speaker 4: going what for what? 376 00:16:54,747 --> 00:16:54,907 Speaker 3: How? 377 00:16:55,067 --> 00:16:57,107 Speaker 4: It's just, you know, jumped at the opportunity, jumped on 378 00:16:57,107 --> 00:16:59,907 Speaker 4: that plane, and I sort of never looked back ever since. 379 00:17:01,147 --> 00:17:03,307 Speaker 2: We recently did a poll on the air. We put 380 00:17:03,307 --> 00:17:05,747 Speaker 2: together a list of New Zealand sports people who should 381 00:17:05,787 --> 00:17:08,747 Speaker 2: never ever have to buy a beer again. You've got 382 00:17:08,787 --> 00:17:11,627 Speaker 2: heaps of votes. Man, do people buy you beers? They 383 00:17:11,667 --> 00:17:12,107 Speaker 2: surely do. 384 00:17:12,547 --> 00:17:15,707 Speaker 4: Maybe there's been a couple and I really appreciate it. 385 00:17:14,827 --> 00:17:18,307 Speaker 4: It's been pretty kind and pretty generous. There's been a 386 00:17:18,307 --> 00:17:20,147 Speaker 4: couple of times where people have rocked up of a 387 00:17:20,147 --> 00:17:22,347 Speaker 4: beer and it's been you know, you sort of feel 388 00:17:22,347 --> 00:17:26,427 Speaker 4: a little bit embarrassed, but it has been very awesome 389 00:17:26,507 --> 00:17:28,707 Speaker 4: to see how people have got around it and done 390 00:17:28,707 --> 00:17:31,427 Speaker 4: that by no means expected at all. I'd love to 391 00:17:31,427 --> 00:17:33,547 Speaker 4: actually just buy them a beer back, to be honest, 392 00:17:33,547 --> 00:17:36,827 Speaker 4: but yeah, it just shows you the nature and the 393 00:17:36,867 --> 00:17:39,947 Speaker 4: generosity and the kindness of Kiwis and how they get 394 00:17:39,987 --> 00:17:43,627 Speaker 4: amongst things and support sport and people, and it's body 395 00:17:43,627 --> 00:17:44,747 Speaker 4: awesome to see. 396 00:17:45,067 --> 00:17:46,747 Speaker 2: You gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure 397 00:17:46,867 --> 00:17:50,107 Speaker 2: kneel across your career. Where delighted you accepted the offer 398 00:17:50,107 --> 00:17:52,547 Speaker 2: to come to Otago then obviously qualified to play for 399 00:17:52,587 --> 00:17:55,147 Speaker 2: New Zealand and did it for so long with such 400 00:17:55,547 --> 00:17:58,707 Speaker 2: humility but such exuberance, such success and a part of 401 00:17:58,947 --> 00:18:02,347 Speaker 2: a huge, hugely successful era in New Zealand cricket. The 402 00:18:02,347 --> 00:18:04,667 Speaker 2: book is cracking, mate, It's a really good read. I'd 403 00:18:04,947 --> 00:18:08,387 Speaker 2: recommend it to anybodyrect on this and on your career. 404 00:18:08,627 --> 00:18:09,907 Speaker 2: Thanks for taking the time for a chat. 405 00:18:09,947 --> 00:18:11,227 Speaker 3: Thank you so much appreciateing this. 406 00:18:11,467 --> 00:18:13,907 Speaker 2: Thanks mate, Thank you Neil, thanks for stopping in, mate, 407 00:18:13,947 --> 00:18:18,227 Speaker 2: Neil Wagner. All out the name of the book it is, 408 00:18:18,627 --> 00:18:21,347 Speaker 2: it's a it's a beauty. It's I read a lot 409 00:18:21,347 --> 00:18:24,787 Speaker 2: of sporting autobiographies and as I said to Wegg's at 410 00:18:24,787 --> 00:18:26,427 Speaker 2: the start of that chat, you know often they can 411 00:18:26,467 --> 00:18:28,227 Speaker 2: just be oh, we played this team and here's what happened. 412 00:18:28,227 --> 00:18:30,587 Speaker 2: But there's a lot more to this one, a lot 413 00:18:30,627 --> 00:18:33,227 Speaker 2: more to it. I would recommend it all out. 414 00:18:33,347 --> 00:18:36,827 Speaker 1: It's called for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. 415 00:18:36,987 --> 00:18:40,227 Speaker 1: Listen live to news Talk said B weekends from midday, 416 00:18:40,507 --> 00:18:42,627 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio