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Speaker 1: Kyoda.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. Regional development

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Speaker 2: has been a major focus of the coalition government. The

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Speaker 2: fast Track Bill, the return of oil and gas exploration

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Speaker 2: and the Regional Infrastructure Fund is all promised to get

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Speaker 2: work back to the regions and help them thrive. And

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Speaker 2: the man running the show is the so called Marthawa

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Speaker 2: of Mining and the Prince of the Provinces, Shane Jones.

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Speaker 1: He's the Minister for Oceans and Fisheries, Regional Development and

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Speaker 1: Resources and there's not an endangered frog or a surfing

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Speaker 1: hippie that's going to get in his way. Today on

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Speaker 1: the Front Page, the Minister joins us to discuss his

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Speaker 1: reckons on what's best for the regions and whether you

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Speaker 1: can find climate change. At the same time as backing

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Speaker 1: provincial New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: Minister, you're hosting fifteen regional growth summits around them or too.

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Speaker 1: What's been the talk on the ground so.

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Speaker 3: Far, well, each area is concerned about a decline in

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Speaker 3: economic activity, each area working to bring forward different proposals.

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Speaker 3: I've said to them, please bring them forward in an

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Speaker 3: integrated fashion and hopefully proposals that won't be caught in

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Speaker 3: some thicket of not being able to get a statutory

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Speaker 3: consens It's probably fair to say that they're very open

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Speaker 3: and embracing that going out there to face the public.

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Speaker 3: I've taken some of my colleagues with me. I was

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Speaker 3: an Invercargill Tama the DOC Minister, because obviously DOC is

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Speaker 3: a major force down there in the South Island. I

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Speaker 3: was there with the Minister of Tertiary Education, the local member.

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Speaker 3: When I've been to Babe Plenty Podd McLay, he came

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Speaker 3: and spoke. So although I've been the tip of the spear,

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Speaker 3: I have been supported by other MPs and other ministers

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Speaker 3: as well, and it's given an opportunity, I reckon for

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Speaker 3: some business leaders and civic leaders to have CONNOHU get

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Speaker 3: the con corridor engagement with us in their space.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're known as the Prince of the Provinces. That's

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Speaker 2: got quite a ring to it, don't you think.

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Speaker 3: Haha. You know, anything that appeals at a poetical level

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Speaker 3: has to have purpose and genuine meaning at a practical level.

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Speaker 1: The alliteration's quite nice as well, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: I'm a bit of an illiterate to king.

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Speaker 2: Look, one of the main killers in the regions at

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Speaker 2: the moment seems to be power prices. We've had a

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Speaker 2: number of businesses shut down in recent months. How concerned

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Speaker 2: are you for these towns that might be reliant on

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Speaker 2: just one core business to keep everyone employed well.

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Speaker 3: Without a doubt, and some of our areas we're going

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Speaker 3: through a major structural adjustment. It disturbs me deeply that

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Speaker 3: the current market settings and the behavior of our large

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Speaker 3: power companies otherwise known as Gen Taylor's, is such that

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Speaker 3: they are unable to offer competitive power prices to a

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Speaker 3: range of industrial users. Now that's both a legacy problem,

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Speaker 3: but it makes me incredibly apprehensive if what we're going

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Speaker 3: to witness over the short to medium terms the de

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Speaker 3: industrialization of New Zealand, that's deeply at odds with what

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Speaker 3: New Zealand First stands for. And of course the New

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Speaker 3: Zealand First Party has campaigned long and hard to change

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Speaker 3: the settings of our electricity market and we have got

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Speaker 3: some work underway involving the Commerce Commission, the Electricity Authority.

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Speaker 3: We've got an independent analysis and review about to take place.

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Speaker 3: I've long since made my mind up that unless we

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Speaker 3: can deliver energy security and more affordable energy prices, then

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Speaker 3: we're doing our country a major disservice.

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Speaker 4: So if you've had eight hundred and eighty five thousand

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Speaker 4: people going to this one outlet, you can get a

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Speaker 4: certain massive unit cost of power reduction for older people.

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Speaker 4: That was our idea, and difficult it is trying to

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Speaker 4: get them to understand that they went down this other idea.

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Speaker 4: A whole lot of people are getting powered compensational the

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Speaker 4: winter time who can afford it, and yet it's still

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Speaker 4: not enough for a lot of people who can't afford

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Speaker 4: it where in the very cold regions or if they're

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Speaker 4: in the wrong house, they're still going to feel the

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Speaker 4: cold for about six months a year.

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Speaker 2: You've promised the likes of rare frogs and other wildlife

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Speaker 2: will not be allowed to get in the way of

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Speaker 2: economic development. You said, no longer would regional jobs be

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Speaker 2: held ransom or hijacked by a random frog or multi

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Speaker 2: colored skink. Can you talk me through that, because you've

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Speaker 2: got to know that that's rubbed some people up the

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Speaker 2: wrong way.

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Speaker 3: Well, no one is going to go to bed tonight

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Speaker 3: doubting where I stand in relation to the centrality of

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Speaker 3: great and the priority that the country should place upon development.

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Speaker 3: I've been constantly shouted down by the NGOs and the

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Speaker 3: opposition politicians, but there are battalions of silent New Zealanders

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Speaker 3: who quietly agree with me. I'm not saying that we're

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Speaker 3: going to go on a massive extinction drive, but I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to sit back and allow the weaponization.

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Speaker 2: You promised the rare frogs and other wildlife will not

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Speaker 2: be allowed to get in a way of economic You said,

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Speaker 2: no longer would regional jobs be held ransom or hijacked

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Speaker 2: by a random.

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Speaker 1: Frog or multi skill. He taught me through that, because

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Speaker 1: got to know that that's the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: Too many special intrascripts to the detriment of jobs, growth

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Speaker 3: and economic resilience in regional New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: What if it's a family of brown spotted key we

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Speaker 1: getting in the way of something.

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Speaker 3: I think that there's no shortage of options for the developers,

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Speaker 3: road builders, infrastructure builders to mitigate. And if it requires

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Speaker 3: an amendment a project within reason, that's I think what

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Speaker 3: would be expected. But this business of saying that the

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Speaker 3: country cannot advance because of a couple of dozen kiwis

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Speaker 3: that can be translocated to another area.

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Speaker 2: I don't buy that, speaking of NGOs, can climate change

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Speaker 2: in regional development happen both at the same time.

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Speaker 3: I believe so, and in fact it is happening in

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Speaker 3: an integrated way. That the deeper riddle is how do

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Speaker 3: we afford the costs associated we're restructuring our society to

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Speaker 3: meet climate goals if we don't have an economic surplus.

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Speaker 3: I think that the pendulum here in New Zealand swinging

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Speaker 3: back to a more sensible location in relation to climate change,

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Speaker 3: shrillness and historyonics. More and more people realize that climate

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Speaker 3: change is only one problem. We've got a host of

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Speaker 3: other severe problems in New Zealand and it's certainly, in

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Speaker 3: my view, not the priority problem.

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Speaker 2: Well, you've mentioned that there's a of a hysteria around it.

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Speaker 2: Are you downplaying climate change?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I'm just saying that of all the challenges confronting

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Speaker 3: me as a New Zealand politician and confronting our nation,

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Speaker 3: climate change is not the be all an indoor climate

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Speaker 3: change in my view, over the last regime has been

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Speaker 3: turned into a religion, and when I'm on a religious experience,

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Speaker 3: I've got other ways of enjoying that rather than chanting

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Speaker 3: climate change odes.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Northland has been ignored for too long?

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of regions can make that claim,

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Speaker 3: but in my experience that the fact that Northland is

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Speaker 3: the only place in our national roading infrastructure that's got

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Speaker 3: a toll on it shows that there's been a habit

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Speaker 3: of regarding the North as a sunny destination but suitable

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Speaker 3: for a quick visit, a spot of R and R

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Speaker 3: and back to a more profitable part of New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: And I hope to turn that perception around.

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Speaker 2: I think I'd invite anyone to take a stab at

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Speaker 2: driving up North and then they'll probably realize how neglected

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Speaker 2: it has been.

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Speaker 3: Hey, yeah, the road is a goat track. There's a

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Speaker 3: particularly egregious piece of roading up there, known as Brn Durman's.

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Speaker 3: But look a host of regions are hammering Wellington to

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Speaker 3: have their roads fixed up. The ty Tolkido Road probably

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Speaker 3: worse than most, but I don't want to deprecate the

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Speaker 3: fact that other regions are concerned as well.

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Speaker 2: Greenpeace seems to think that you're in cahoots with mining,

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Speaker 2: saying Shane Jones notoriously connected to and funded by the

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Speaker 2: mining industry is now the Minister for Resources.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of that statement?

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Speaker 3: No, the funding donations that I've declared are from the

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Speaker 3: fishing industry.

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Speaker 1: Are you interherites with the fishing industry chain.

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Speaker 3: I used to be the Chairman of Sea Laws, I

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Speaker 3: used to be the chairman of the MALDI Fisheries Commission.

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Speaker 3: I've had a long and proud association with fisheries and

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Speaker 3: I regard myself as the most exquisitely qualified politician to

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Speaker 3: have ever held the fisheries portfolio. Now, I know this

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Speaker 3: annoys some of the Green beetles, but they're never ever

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Speaker 3: going to accept my pro industry, pro growth agenda, and

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Speaker 3: I just have to acknowledge that their players and their

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Speaker 3: stakeholders in the broader political system. In respect of mining,

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Speaker 3: we are going to turbocharge mining. We are going to

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Speaker 3: increase our export revenue from mining, our job prospects in mining,

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Speaker 3: and it'll be done within guardrails. But we're not going

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Speaker 3: to have mining tainted and stigmatized by false information and

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Speaker 3: have it blighted by histrionics. And that's pretty much what

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Speaker 3: the Green Party and their fellow travelers represent.

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Speaker 2: Well, the government plans to repeal the twenty eighteen ban

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Speaker 2: on new offshore oil and gas exploration. Hey, and that's

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Speaker 2: been seen as a controversial move.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 3: Oh, No, it's an inoffensive set of changes. It's just

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Speaker 3: designed to increase New Zealand's fuel and energy resilience. Once again,

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Speaker 3: there's been a lot of catastrophizing and it just depends

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Speaker 3: whether or not New Zealand wants to enjoy economic sovereignty

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Speaker 3: a greater level of national resilience. I don't pay much

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Speaker 3: attention to these screeching voices who are trying to confuse

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Speaker 3: our young people in the education system that the planet

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Speaker 3: is boiling. All of that is self serving rhetoric designed

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Speaker 3: to boost green parties appeal to the voting public, and

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Speaker 3: there hopefully more and more people are accepting that you

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Speaker 3: need balance and common sense in these issues. We don't

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Speaker 3: need any more bouts of verbal diarrhea.

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Speaker 2: Well, climate change protesters do seem to follow you around

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Speaker 2: wherever you go, Shane. When you rock up somewhere and

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Speaker 2: you see them standing out front, what do you think

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Speaker 2: I engage with them.

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Speaker 3: And confront them straight away. I don't go there to

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Speaker 3: be antagonistic, but I allow them to see that we

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Speaker 3: may have a different view, but I will not be

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Speaker 3: cowed and longless we're respectful to each other and no

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Speaker 3: one's trying to punch me in the o's because rest

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Speaker 3: assured the person who does that to me, a Green

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Speaker 3: member or a gang member, they'll live to regret it.

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Speaker 5: We've got to be really clear that absolutely we should

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Speaker 5: be having infrastructure projects, but that are determined by those affected.

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Speaker 5: And when we see zombie projects coming back to life,

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Speaker 5: those are not being determined. They are only being driven

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Speaker 5: by those who are looking atter the super wealthy. And

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Speaker 5: that's what this government's been about from day one.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of people pouring over your diary

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Speaker 2: and seeing who, from what companies, from what sectors you're

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Speaker 2: having dinner with?

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Speaker 1: Do some people just not trust you?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I just think that it's a level of fascination

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Speaker 3: that had a small minority of nosy neighbors have as

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Speaker 3: to how I'm doing my job. There's a higher level

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Speaker 3: of scrutiny, I think for anyone who has outspoken and

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Speaker 3: support of mining and commercial commercialization of our natural resources,

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Speaker 3: including fisheries, it just comes with the territory.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to mining and oil and gas exploration,

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Speaker 2: is there a way to do it that we haven't

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Speaker 2: done before.

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Speaker 1: Is there a way to do it that doesn't harm

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Speaker 1: the environment as much? Do you think?

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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, confident that we'll have the guard rails in place.

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Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, if people want

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Speaker 3: to maintain the quality of life that we've got as

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Speaker 3: a first world nation, then we're going to have to

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Speaker 3: use our resources. And when you use the resources, you

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Speaker 3: will be disrupting the natural environment. And these are the

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Speaker 3: trade offs that I look forward to not only justifying,

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Speaker 3: but leading.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to timeline, I mean when can

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Speaker 1: we see that oil and exploration.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully by the prior to Christmas the bill will be

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Speaker 3: fairly embedded within the statutory landscape.

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Speaker 1: And is that the same with the fast Track Bill?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, you know, we're going through the process at

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Speaker 3: the moment of sort of shepherding the fast Track legislation

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Speaker 3: through Parliament and I look forward to it being passed

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Speaker 3: as soon as possible.

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Speaker 1: And Minister in twenty twenty six, when we're heading back

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Speaker 1: to the polls, what would you consider a measure of

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Speaker 1: success that you would like those voters in the region

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Speaker 1: to hold you against.

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Speaker 3: I think that some of the larger projects that are

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Speaker 3: in the fast track, that they've managed to navigate the

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Speaker 3: statutory consent process. That we have dedicated the entirety of

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Speaker 3: the Regional in Infrastructure Fund to projects such as flooding resilience,

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Speaker 3: and that we've kept our word and that is the

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Speaker 3: promise of delivery as a New Zealand First MP as

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Speaker 3: a part of the coalition government. And mate, I must

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Speaker 3: go see ya.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Minister. That's it for this episode

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Speaker 2: of the Front Page. You can read more about today's

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Speaker 2: stories and extensive news coverage at enzadherld dot co dot nz.

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Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sells and Richard Martin,

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Speaker 2: who is also our sound engineer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio or where you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another

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Speaker 2: look behind the headlines.