1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,027 Speaker 1: from Newstalk zedb. 3 00:00:12,787 --> 00:00:15,187 Speaker 2: Wood is a leading performance coach who's worked with the 4 00:00:15,187 --> 00:00:18,147 Speaker 2: England football team, the South African cricket team, the British 5 00:00:18,187 --> 00:00:22,107 Speaker 2: Olympic team, and the command group at NATO. He's author 6 00:00:22,187 --> 00:00:25,947 Speaker 2: of the best selling book Belonging, and has recently completed 7 00:00:25,987 --> 00:00:29,547 Speaker 2: a nine part podcast series on the nineteen twenty four 8 00:00:29,627 --> 00:00:33,627 Speaker 2: All Blacks Forever ohen As the Invincibles. They left Wellington 9 00:00:33,667 --> 00:00:37,347 Speaker 2: by ship on the twenty ninth of July nineteen twenty four, 10 00:00:37,827 --> 00:00:42,347 Speaker 2: returning two hundred and thirty two days later on March seventeen, 11 00:00:42,787 --> 00:00:46,307 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five, during which time they played thirty two 12 00:00:46,347 --> 00:00:49,387 Speaker 2: games without defeat. The podcast series tells the story of 13 00:00:49,387 --> 00:00:53,107 Speaker 2: this iconic rugby team, but also extracts lessons about sheed identity, 14 00:00:53,187 --> 00:00:56,387 Speaker 2: team culture and leadership. In each episode, Owen Eastwood is 15 00:00:56,427 --> 00:00:59,387 Speaker 2: joined by a guest to navigate the events that unfolded 16 00:00:59,387 --> 00:01:02,667 Speaker 2: one hundred years ago and to provide insights that have 17 00:01:02,787 --> 00:01:06,947 Speaker 2: modern day significance. Those guests include Dan Carteraron Reed and 18 00:01:06,947 --> 00:01:10,307 Speaker 2: Wayne Smith, as well as Black Caps legend Kane Williamson 19 00:01:10,387 --> 00:01:14,107 Speaker 2: and Golfer Luke Donald Owen Eastwood is with us. 20 00:01:14,267 --> 00:01:14,547 Speaker 1: Owen. 21 00:01:14,867 --> 00:01:17,787 Speaker 2: How did the idea for this podcast series come about? 22 00:01:18,307 --> 00:01:21,827 Speaker 3: Well, I've always loved history. It's always been a bit 23 00:01:21,827 --> 00:01:25,467 Speaker 3: of an interest in mine. And just the anniversary of 24 00:01:25,467 --> 00:01:28,427 Speaker 3: the First World War, actually I was curious my old school, 25 00:01:28,467 --> 00:01:31,027 Speaker 3: Southland Boys High School, and in Icago, I was curious 26 00:01:31,187 --> 00:01:33,747 Speaker 3: to learn a bit more about who of our old 27 00:01:33,787 --> 00:01:36,227 Speaker 3: boys fought in the war and some of those stories. 28 00:01:36,227 --> 00:01:39,307 Speaker 3: And I came across one Andrew White, who was known 29 00:01:39,307 --> 00:01:42,427 Speaker 3: as Sun White, and I recognized the name because I 30 00:01:42,507 --> 00:01:44,707 Speaker 3: knew that he was also one of our All Blacks. 31 00:01:44,907 --> 00:01:47,867 Speaker 3: So we had this character who fought in the First 32 00:01:47,867 --> 00:01:53,587 Speaker 3: World War, actually fought in Gallipoli the psalm Passiondale battler 33 00:01:53,667 --> 00:01:58,107 Speaker 3: messinepro quite an epic story, and then came home with 34 00:01:58,187 --> 00:02:02,867 Speaker 3: shell shock and he was extremely disabled. And then this 35 00:02:03,187 --> 00:02:07,307 Speaker 3: miraculous rise where he then got into rugby and nineteen 36 00:02:07,427 --> 00:02:10,347 Speaker 3: nineteen and two years later was an All Black. So 37 00:02:10,467 --> 00:02:12,947 Speaker 3: I thought I need to learn a lot more about that, 38 00:02:13,027 --> 00:02:15,107 Speaker 3: so I got into that. So about the same time 39 00:02:15,147 --> 00:02:18,187 Speaker 3: I got to know Dan Carter and his great uncle 40 00:02:18,267 --> 00:02:20,107 Speaker 3: Bill Dally was a member of that team, and we 41 00:02:20,147 --> 00:02:23,547 Speaker 3: both had this connection around this is a story that's 42 00:02:23,587 --> 00:02:27,667 Speaker 3: really not that well known, and why don't we exploring together. 43 00:02:28,587 --> 00:02:31,547 Speaker 2: So when we think about the nineteen twenty four Invincibles, 44 00:02:31,587 --> 00:02:34,667 Speaker 2: I think we all know the name, and I've given 45 00:02:34,707 --> 00:02:37,907 Speaker 2: the stats, thirty two games without losing any of them, 46 00:02:37,987 --> 00:02:40,467 Speaker 2: and all of that time away from home. But what 47 00:02:40,547 --> 00:02:44,947 Speaker 2: were the hallmarks of that nineteen twenty four to twenty five. 48 00:02:44,787 --> 00:02:48,467 Speaker 3: Side where Wayne Smith is another guest on and he 49 00:02:49,067 --> 00:02:52,627 Speaker 3: identified that they were so innovative and that is the 50 00:02:52,707 --> 00:02:55,307 Speaker 3: DNA that has continued to this day. And he also 51 00:02:55,387 --> 00:02:57,067 Speaker 3: spoke but when he was an All Black coach, he 52 00:02:57,187 --> 00:03:00,147 Speaker 3: was very conscious of the legacy they left, and you know, 53 00:03:00,187 --> 00:03:02,947 Speaker 3: the identity framework really about what it is to be 54 00:03:02,947 --> 00:03:04,707 Speaker 3: a great all Black team, and they try and try 55 00:03:04,747 --> 00:03:07,347 Speaker 3: to replicate it. Dan Carter made the same point is 56 00:03:07,387 --> 00:03:11,547 Speaker 3: this isn't an ancient story. This reverberates right through today. 57 00:03:11,587 --> 00:03:14,547 Speaker 3: A lot of the rituals were created by the Invincibles, 58 00:03:14,547 --> 00:03:17,147 Speaker 3: and in fact, the play leadership group. The first one 59 00:03:17,187 --> 00:03:21,027 Speaker 3: was the Originals. They created that, and people like Dan 60 00:03:21,107 --> 00:03:24,907 Speaker 3: and Karen Reid and Richard mccare, etc. They were part 61 00:03:24,947 --> 00:03:27,187 Speaker 3: of it in their own time. So some of those 62 00:03:27,227 --> 00:03:31,267 Speaker 3: guys really enjoyed just finding the origin story around some 63 00:03:31,307 --> 00:03:33,707 Speaker 3: of the bull back experiences they had. 64 00:03:35,147 --> 00:03:37,267 Speaker 2: But we're talking one hundred years ago and the world 65 00:03:37,347 --> 00:03:39,387 Speaker 2: has changed a lot in the last ten years, let 66 00:03:39,427 --> 00:03:43,267 Speaker 2: alone the last one hundred years. So how much of 67 00:03:43,307 --> 00:03:47,547 Speaker 2: what was a key to their success in nineteen twenty 68 00:03:47,547 --> 00:03:52,107 Speaker 2: four is transferable to a modern day sports team or 69 00:03:52,147 --> 00:03:53,547 Speaker 2: a modern day sports person. 70 00:03:54,627 --> 00:03:59,147 Speaker 3: You know, I'm struggling to think of what isn't transferable. Introduction. 71 00:03:59,547 --> 00:04:02,347 Speaker 3: I'm a performance coach, I'm based up here in the 72 00:04:02,347 --> 00:04:05,347 Speaker 3: Cotswalls in England. I worked with Chelsea Football Clubs and 73 00:04:05,387 --> 00:04:07,587 Speaker 3: I work with European R Cup team and I've worked 74 00:04:07,587 --> 00:04:12,307 Speaker 3: with them over the last two competitions and everything that 75 00:04:13,027 --> 00:04:17,907 Speaker 3: the Invincibles represent are things that we apply today without 76 00:04:17,947 --> 00:04:20,387 Speaker 3: a shadow of doubt. And what's very interesting to me 77 00:04:20,547 --> 00:04:22,387 Speaker 3: is they were able to simplify it in a way 78 00:04:22,427 --> 00:04:25,587 Speaker 3: where probably today we've over complicated a few things. There. 79 00:04:25,787 --> 00:04:28,667 Speaker 3: They didn't have twenty people in the coaching staff, they 80 00:04:28,667 --> 00:04:31,907 Speaker 3: didn't even actually have a coach, poor to the captain 81 00:04:32,707 --> 00:04:36,787 Speaker 3: and the player leadership group round the team. So I 82 00:04:36,827 --> 00:04:38,907 Speaker 3: think a lot of the things that really make a 83 00:04:38,947 --> 00:04:42,827 Speaker 3: difference in performance. It's a really lovely case study because 84 00:04:42,867 --> 00:04:44,867 Speaker 3: it's so pure. You know, there's not all this sort 85 00:04:44,907 --> 00:04:47,747 Speaker 3: of complexity. It was just a group of guys, very 86 00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:52,147 Speaker 3: diverse brand together, played pretty terribly in the pre tour games, 87 00:04:52,187 --> 00:04:56,987 Speaker 3: lost to Auckland, lost in Sydney. Nobody was really thinking 88 00:04:56,987 --> 00:04:58,667 Speaker 3: that they're going to do particularly well and they just 89 00:04:58,707 --> 00:05:00,827 Speaker 3: really had to figure this out themselves, and they did 90 00:05:00,867 --> 00:05:04,707 Speaker 3: it in an innovative way, but actually very beautiful way 91 00:05:04,707 --> 00:05:05,227 Speaker 3: in my view. 92 00:05:05,387 --> 00:05:07,787 Speaker 2: So tell us some of the things in particular, Ohen 93 00:05:07,867 --> 00:05:10,667 Speaker 2: that they did so well, but also so simply. 94 00:05:12,067 --> 00:05:14,547 Speaker 3: Now, one of the things was a captain was crazy. 95 00:05:14,667 --> 00:05:17,027 Speaker 3: But the captain, Cliff Porter, was appointed the night before, 96 00:05:17,867 --> 00:05:20,907 Speaker 3: so they it was chaotic on the administration side. You know, 97 00:05:20,907 --> 00:05:22,627 Speaker 3: it won't be making any comics down on the rugby, 98 00:05:22,667 --> 00:05:25,987 Speaker 3: but back in only twenty four, she's pretty chaotic. They changed, 99 00:05:25,987 --> 00:05:27,787 Speaker 3: they decided to change the skip of the day before. 100 00:05:29,627 --> 00:05:31,907 Speaker 3: So what that led to those Cliff Porter was a 101 00:05:31,987 --> 00:05:36,747 Speaker 3: very inexperienced all black twenty four year old. He decided that, like, 102 00:05:36,787 --> 00:05:37,907 Speaker 3: I'm not going to be able to do this some 103 00:05:37,947 --> 00:05:39,747 Speaker 3: way own. I've got some real veterans in this team. 104 00:05:39,787 --> 00:05:42,227 Speaker 3: So he cred this player leadership group. So that was 105 00:05:42,467 --> 00:05:45,867 Speaker 3: one innovation. On the boat trip of thirty nine days 106 00:05:45,907 --> 00:05:49,107 Speaker 3: across they did something which today would be regarded as 107 00:05:49,147 --> 00:05:51,907 Speaker 3: extremely modern then. That is they every afternoon they sat 108 00:05:51,947 --> 00:05:54,907 Speaker 3: in a circle and he asked each player just to 109 00:05:54,947 --> 00:05:57,947 Speaker 3: describe the fundamental to their position and what you need 110 00:05:57,987 --> 00:06:00,667 Speaker 3: to do to really, you know, play at a high level. 111 00:06:00,707 --> 00:06:04,107 Speaker 3: And George Nepier and others wrote about how scary it 112 00:06:04,147 --> 00:06:06,587 Speaker 3: really was in that circle to talk like that. Some 113 00:06:06,627 --> 00:06:09,507 Speaker 3: of them, like George, hadn't played much fallback, but they 114 00:06:09,587 --> 00:06:13,707 Speaker 3: What happened was after they finished speaking, the other players 115 00:06:13,707 --> 00:06:16,947 Speaker 3: were invited to help them and add so Mark Nichols, 116 00:06:16,947 --> 00:06:19,627 Speaker 3: the great player from Wellington, he would say to George, look, 117 00:06:19,627 --> 00:06:21,187 Speaker 3: I think you've missed out a couple of things here 118 00:06:21,267 --> 00:06:23,947 Speaker 3: in terms of fallback play. And what happened is they 119 00:06:23,987 --> 00:06:27,707 Speaker 3: created in modern language of psychological safety where they learned 120 00:06:27,747 --> 00:06:30,587 Speaker 3: how to challenge each other and have a bit of 121 00:06:30,587 --> 00:06:34,787 Speaker 3: a debate without people getting their feelings hurt. And another example, 122 00:06:34,827 --> 00:06:38,387 Speaker 3: you know on your question is they didn't start the 123 00:06:38,387 --> 00:06:41,747 Speaker 3: tour particularly well. They were just winning. So Cliff Porter 124 00:06:41,907 --> 00:06:44,507 Speaker 3: and the leadership group brought in an intervention, which was 125 00:06:44,587 --> 00:06:47,307 Speaker 3: they brought in a formal review after the game. So 126 00:06:47,347 --> 00:06:50,627 Speaker 3: straight after the game finished in the dressing room, they 127 00:06:50,627 --> 00:06:53,227 Speaker 3: had an hour and that was led by the non 128 00:06:53,307 --> 00:06:55,307 Speaker 3: players who were sitting in the stand watching the game 129 00:06:55,307 --> 00:06:59,147 Speaker 3: and they would come in. And even during this podcast series, 130 00:06:59,307 --> 00:07:02,027 Speaker 3: I've had some professional teams approach me and say we're 131 00:07:02,067 --> 00:07:04,707 Speaker 3: bringing in that into our practice, like we're getting the 132 00:07:04,747 --> 00:07:09,307 Speaker 3: non playing to lead the review of the game. So 133 00:07:09,427 --> 00:07:11,267 Speaker 3: this has not been done before any of this. As 134 00:07:11,307 --> 00:07:14,147 Speaker 3: well as up to that point, it was traditional that 135 00:07:14,187 --> 00:07:16,667 Speaker 3: players would opt in are out of training on tour. 136 00:07:17,587 --> 00:07:21,787 Speaker 3: It was called a Rafferty rules, and again Cliff and 137 00:07:21,827 --> 00:07:24,427 Speaker 3: the leadership group said, that's just not going to get 138 00:07:24,427 --> 00:07:27,467 Speaker 3: the job done. You it's mandatory to train unless you 139 00:07:27,507 --> 00:07:31,107 Speaker 3: were unfit. So there's just multiple examples of how they 140 00:07:31,187 --> 00:07:34,987 Speaker 3: really created what we would identify as a professional type 141 00:07:34,987 --> 00:07:35,947 Speaker 3: of setup. 142 00:07:36,267 --> 00:07:40,747 Speaker 2: You mentioned before that modern day coaching setups can sometimes 143 00:07:40,947 --> 00:07:42,947 Speaker 2: overcomplicate things. What do you think that is? 144 00:07:44,427 --> 00:07:46,787 Speaker 3: So that's such a good question. I think when rugby 145 00:07:46,827 --> 00:07:51,107 Speaker 3: went professional and other sports, maybe they didn't really know, 146 00:07:52,547 --> 00:07:54,307 Speaker 3: they didn't have any model for what they wanted to do, 147 00:07:54,387 --> 00:07:56,547 Speaker 3: so they looked at other sports, probably like the NFL, 148 00:07:56,547 --> 00:07:59,067 Speaker 3: where you've got like a whole sideline full of coaches 149 00:07:59,107 --> 00:08:01,747 Speaker 3: and people. I'm not sure because you know, I've worked 150 00:08:01,947 --> 00:08:03,107 Speaker 3: in rugby as well. 151 00:08:02,947 --> 00:08:03,347 Speaker 2: And. 152 00:08:05,267 --> 00:08:07,147 Speaker 3: I think what happens is you get the silos. You 153 00:08:07,187 --> 00:08:08,867 Speaker 3: got a lot of people who have got a domain 154 00:08:08,987 --> 00:08:10,867 Speaker 3: over the you know, maybe the line out, the scrum, 155 00:08:10,947 --> 00:08:14,467 Speaker 3: the back, the attack, whatever, and that can become an 156 00:08:14,507 --> 00:08:17,867 Speaker 3: incredible challenge. To actually create one voice. You need a 157 00:08:17,947 --> 00:08:20,827 Speaker 3: very skilled head coach, basically like a chief executive to 158 00:08:20,827 --> 00:08:23,947 Speaker 3: bring it all together. Sometimes that doesn't exist. Sometimes the 159 00:08:23,947 --> 00:08:26,507 Speaker 3: head coach actually is the most technical of all of them. 160 00:08:26,987 --> 00:08:31,187 Speaker 3: They're not really someone who is well skilled to do this. 161 00:08:32,467 --> 00:08:35,107 Speaker 3: You know, the great coaches are able to pull that off, 162 00:08:35,147 --> 00:08:37,067 Speaker 3: but a lot of coaches struggle with it and don't 163 00:08:37,107 --> 00:08:39,707 Speaker 3: actually enjoy that part of it. They just enjoy the 164 00:08:39,747 --> 00:08:43,347 Speaker 3: technical and technical side of it. So I think I 165 00:08:43,427 --> 00:08:48,107 Speaker 3: love kids rugby. My favorite rugby's first fifteen rugby still 166 00:08:48,107 --> 00:08:50,187 Speaker 3: in New Zealand. I watched every single game ofself in 167 00:08:50,227 --> 00:08:52,307 Speaker 3: boys high school. They send the games up here for 168 00:08:52,347 --> 00:08:54,187 Speaker 3: me to ever look at, and you know they do 169 00:08:54,267 --> 00:08:56,427 Speaker 3: it with a couple of coaches and old school way. 170 00:08:57,027 --> 00:08:59,787 Speaker 3: You know, they won the national championship two years ago 171 00:08:59,867 --> 00:09:01,547 Speaker 3: and got in the top four a game this year, 172 00:09:01,627 --> 00:09:05,187 Speaker 3: So yeah, that speaks for itself. 173 00:09:06,827 --> 00:09:09,667 Speaker 2: Understand obviously the rugby guests you have on and you 174 00:09:09,707 --> 00:09:12,667 Speaker 2: mentioned Dan Carter, I mentioned Karen Reid, Wayne Smith, but 175 00:09:12,747 --> 00:09:14,587 Speaker 2: what sort of input did you get from the likes 176 00:09:14,587 --> 00:09:18,307 Speaker 2: of Cain Williamson and golfer Luke Donald? 177 00:09:18,547 --> 00:09:21,987 Speaker 3: And I brought Luken. I worked with him on the 178 00:09:22,067 --> 00:09:28,587 Speaker 3: Ryder Cup and I wanted him to comment on something specific, 179 00:09:28,747 --> 00:09:32,147 Speaker 3: which was Cliff Porter was appointed the night before as 180 00:09:32,187 --> 00:09:36,667 Speaker 3: the captain, which is obviously crazy fact, but Luke Donald 181 00:09:36,707 --> 00:09:39,267 Speaker 3: was appointed Wryer Cup captain a year late. So the 182 00:09:39,307 --> 00:09:43,347 Speaker 3: original captain for Rome was Hendrick Stenson who then went 183 00:09:43,387 --> 00:09:47,667 Speaker 3: to live So they were scrambling European tour to what 184 00:09:47,707 --> 00:09:50,107 Speaker 3: the hell are we going to do? Luke was invited 185 00:09:50,587 --> 00:09:52,707 Speaker 3: very very late. The Americans had already had a year 186 00:09:52,747 --> 00:09:56,307 Speaker 3: of preparation before him, so Luke was in late. He 187 00:09:56,387 --> 00:09:58,947 Speaker 3: asked me to come and help him, and you know, 188 00:09:58,987 --> 00:10:00,747 Speaker 3: we didn't have a lot of time and it was 189 00:10:00,787 --> 00:10:02,747 Speaker 3: so cliff Port had less time, but Luke didn't have 190 00:10:02,747 --> 00:10:05,387 Speaker 3: a lot of time. So Luke was able to come 191 00:10:05,387 --> 00:10:06,707 Speaker 3: in and say when you don't I have a lot 192 00:10:06,707 --> 00:10:09,507 Speaker 3: of time. As a leader, these are the priorities, so 193 00:10:09,547 --> 00:10:11,787 Speaker 3: they had great feedback on that one. He also loves 194 00:10:11,827 --> 00:10:13,747 Speaker 3: rugby and loves all black, so he was happy just 195 00:10:13,787 --> 00:10:17,187 Speaker 3: to get involved in that. Pippa Grange was the first 196 00:10:17,227 --> 00:10:21,147 Speaker 3: psychologist with England football team. She really transformed them under 197 00:10:21,147 --> 00:10:24,107 Speaker 3: Garra Southgate. She's not a big rugby fan, but she 198 00:10:24,147 --> 00:10:28,067 Speaker 3: absolutely loves the Invincibles and principally because of the culture 199 00:10:27,707 --> 00:10:31,267 Speaker 3: in the very compassionate leadership of Cliff Porter, she finds 200 00:10:31,787 --> 00:10:37,667 Speaker 3: that really inspiring. And Cain, oh Caine, there was a 201 00:10:38,347 --> 00:10:40,667 Speaker 3: He's just a good bugger that'd be perfectly honest, and 202 00:10:40,707 --> 00:10:42,667 Speaker 3: I really love him. He doesn't really talk to the 203 00:10:42,707 --> 00:10:47,187 Speaker 3: media a lot, I don't think so I thought as 204 00:10:47,227 --> 00:10:49,267 Speaker 3: a mate having a conversation with him might be quite 205 00:10:49,307 --> 00:10:51,867 Speaker 3: nice for the audience just to hear him talk very naturally. 206 00:10:52,387 --> 00:10:58,347 Speaker 3: But the specific reason was the Invincibles. It didn't have 207 00:10:58,547 --> 00:11:02,627 Speaker 3: a written cultural code, so they I would say, they 208 00:11:02,627 --> 00:11:05,187 Speaker 3: had probably the most inspirational team culture have ever seen, 209 00:11:05,227 --> 00:11:07,907 Speaker 3: and none of it was put into And you know, 210 00:11:07,987 --> 00:11:09,707 Speaker 3: I bet you know as well. There's a lot of 211 00:11:09,707 --> 00:11:12,867 Speaker 3: corporates out there who have absolute documents full of their 212 00:11:12,867 --> 00:11:16,147 Speaker 3: culture code and don't live it, while the Invincibles were 213 00:11:16,187 --> 00:11:19,307 Speaker 3: the opposite. They lived it, but they didn't write it down. Now, 214 00:11:19,347 --> 00:11:22,067 Speaker 3: when I was first met Caan about four or five 215 00:11:22,107 --> 00:11:23,787 Speaker 3: years ago and he's on cricket, we're just asking me 216 00:11:23,827 --> 00:11:26,067 Speaker 3: and him to explore should we put the black Caps 217 00:11:26,107 --> 00:11:29,507 Speaker 3: culture into writing because it hadn't been captured either, and 218 00:11:29,627 --> 00:11:31,587 Speaker 3: he had a very experienced team he was leading, and 219 00:11:31,627 --> 00:11:34,547 Speaker 3: we've basically came to a conclusion that, look, it's really 220 00:11:34,547 --> 00:11:36,067 Speaker 3: powerful the way it is, and if you put it 221 00:11:36,107 --> 00:11:38,067 Speaker 3: in writing and ask people to read it, it could lose 222 00:11:38,107 --> 00:11:41,027 Speaker 3: a bit of potency. So he was great to come 223 00:11:41,067 --> 00:11:43,187 Speaker 3: in and they need to have this written down, and 224 00:11:43,747 --> 00:11:45,187 Speaker 3: so that was part of it. But we had just 225 00:11:45,227 --> 00:11:47,907 Speaker 3: a good general chat. He enjoyed them and he knew 226 00:11:47,947 --> 00:11:48,907 Speaker 3: COO a lot about it. 227 00:11:49,267 --> 00:11:51,347 Speaker 2: From a wider point of view. And how common is 228 00:11:51,387 --> 00:11:56,467 Speaker 2: it for modern day sports organizations to look back like 229 00:11:57,387 --> 00:12:02,827 Speaker 2: one hundred years like this to inform their decision making 230 00:12:02,867 --> 00:12:05,747 Speaker 2: in the modern day? Is that common in your experience 231 00:12:05,867 --> 00:12:06,467 Speaker 2: or unco. 232 00:12:08,067 --> 00:12:11,987 Speaker 3: Jason, I'm so pleased you ask that question because I 233 00:12:12,027 --> 00:12:14,547 Speaker 3: think just about every organization will say, we're really proud 234 00:12:14,587 --> 00:12:18,667 Speaker 3: of our heritage, We've got a great history, but the 235 00:12:18,667 --> 00:12:21,107 Speaker 3: feedback I got last year from people in New Zealand 236 00:12:21,267 --> 00:12:24,067 Speaker 3: was that the Invincibles didn't seem to be really as 237 00:12:24,107 --> 00:12:27,027 Speaker 3: deeply celebrated as some of the families of those players 238 00:12:27,067 --> 00:12:30,307 Speaker 3: really anticipated would happen. It seemed a little bit light. 239 00:12:31,067 --> 00:12:32,627 Speaker 3: That was part of the motivation why we actually got 240 00:12:32,667 --> 00:12:35,107 Speaker 3: off our backsides and created the podcast now, and that is, 241 00:12:35,987 --> 00:12:38,227 Speaker 3: you know, I don't think we should be running around saying, oh, yeah, 242 00:12:38,227 --> 00:12:40,347 Speaker 3: the Invincibles and the Originals and all that, so we 243 00:12:40,347 --> 00:12:43,867 Speaker 3: don't really know the story. So that's part of it. 244 00:12:44,627 --> 00:12:47,947 Speaker 3: You know. Secondly, I don't know whether the all Blacks 245 00:12:47,987 --> 00:12:50,027 Speaker 3: are listening to this or not. I've got no idea, 246 00:12:50,107 --> 00:12:52,427 Speaker 3: but a lot of their experience they're having as all 247 00:12:52,467 --> 00:12:55,347 Speaker 3: Blacks now comes back to nineteen twenty four or nineteen 248 00:12:55,387 --> 00:12:57,827 Speaker 3: o five, and I think you're missing a beat here 249 00:12:57,867 --> 00:13:00,787 Speaker 3: if you don't understand why things are done in a 250 00:13:00,827 --> 00:13:04,267 Speaker 3: certain way and why and how these people who had 251 00:13:04,267 --> 00:13:06,987 Speaker 3: the same challenge effectively as them, how they navigated that 252 00:13:07,027 --> 00:13:10,707 Speaker 3: same challenge. And you know, people like Karen Dan Wayne Smith, 253 00:13:10,747 --> 00:13:13,107 Speaker 3: they just think this is so powerful to know your 254 00:13:13,147 --> 00:13:17,907 Speaker 3: heritage story properly. And I'd invite people from all communities 255 00:13:17,907 --> 00:13:20,587 Speaker 3: and all teams to if you've got good stories, capture 256 00:13:20,627 --> 00:13:23,267 Speaker 3: the bloody things. And you know, I just didn't amateur 257 00:13:23,347 --> 00:13:26,427 Speaker 3: job of this, but just capture it. Don't let it 258 00:13:26,627 --> 00:13:29,787 Speaker 3: go when people pass on or whatever. You know, if 259 00:13:29,827 --> 00:13:33,627 Speaker 3: you won the nineteen eighty five Bay Plenty Championship and 260 00:13:33,627 --> 00:13:36,107 Speaker 3: it was a good bloody story, then call it. Get 261 00:13:36,147 --> 00:13:36,667 Speaker 3: it down there. 262 00:13:37,547 --> 00:13:39,787 Speaker 2: It's a fantastic piece of work. As usual by you 263 00:13:39,907 --> 00:13:44,147 Speaker 2: are in the Invincible podcast Timeless Lessons in Culture and Leadership, 264 00:13:44,187 --> 00:13:45,987 Speaker 2: So that one's in the box, mate, what's next for you? 265 00:13:48,387 --> 00:13:51,947 Speaker 3: A good question. I'm actually literally speaking with Luke Donald 266 00:13:51,947 --> 00:13:55,787 Speaker 3: in thirty Minutes from the Horse's Mouth. I'm interested where 267 00:13:55,827 --> 00:13:57,907 Speaker 3: he's decided where he wants to have another crack and 268 00:13:57,987 --> 00:14:00,707 Speaker 3: have a third Rider Cup as captain. So a little 269 00:14:00,747 --> 00:14:04,587 Speaker 3: bit awaiting that one. Chelsea Football Club, I'm sort of 270 00:14:04,627 --> 00:14:08,427 Speaker 3: halfway through my engagement with. We're tracking in the right direction. 271 00:14:08,507 --> 00:14:12,467 Speaker 3: We've moved up from twelfth to fourth, and I've got 272 00:14:12,467 --> 00:14:14,267 Speaker 3: a few injuries at the moment, but i enjoy working 273 00:14:14,267 --> 00:14:17,387 Speaker 3: in the Premier League and I'd love to do another 274 00:14:17,987 --> 00:14:21,027 Speaker 3: podcast in a couple of years. I'm very intrigued by 275 00:14:21,147 --> 00:14:24,107 Speaker 3: a lot of incredible sports stories that all happened in 276 00:14:24,147 --> 00:14:28,107 Speaker 3: nineteen fifty nine, so keep an eye up for that one, 277 00:14:28,147 --> 00:14:28,827 Speaker 3: certainly well. 278 00:14:29,107 --> 00:14:31,467 Speaker 2: Always a pleasure talking to you, Owen. Thanks for joining 279 00:14:31,547 --> 00:14:33,347 Speaker 2: us across New Zealand, and I know a lot of 280 00:14:33,347 --> 00:14:36,867 Speaker 2: our listeners will be rushing to their podcast feed to 281 00:14:36,427 --> 00:14:39,667 Speaker 2: add your one to their to their list of listening. 282 00:14:39,667 --> 00:14:40,707 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us today. 283 00:14:40,827 --> 00:14:42,267 Speaker 3: Thank you mate, Thank you, Owen. 284 00:14:42,347 --> 00:14:46,147 Speaker 2: Owen Eastward there key week leading performance coach and producer 285 00:14:46,187 --> 00:14:50,427 Speaker 2: of the nine part podcast The Invincibles The Lessons We 286 00:14:50,427 --> 00:14:53,507 Speaker 2: Can Learn from the nineteen twenty four All Blacks. 287 00:14:53,947 --> 00:14:57,147 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 288 00:14:57,267 --> 00:15:00,547 Speaker 1: to News Talk sed B weekends from midday, or follow 289 00:15:00,587 --> 00:15:02,187 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio