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Speaker 1: We've got a congestion tax on its way. Basically, the

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Speaker 1: government allows councils will to introduce charges on local roads.

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Speaker 1: The theory is that shifts traffic flow and raises money

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Speaker 1: and solves congestion. New Zealand Infrastructure Commissions General Manager Jeff

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Speaker 1: Cooper is with us on this. Jeff, very good morning

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Mike, good to be here. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: Rick, largely confined. Do you think to Auckland or you

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Speaker 1: see it in a place like Wellington christ Us as well?

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Speaker 2: Look, I mean I hope not. This is the sort

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Speaker 2: of thing that all of our cities need to be

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Speaker 2: thinking about at one point or another. Right, they should

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Speaker 2: be planning for this in the decades to come. Auckland

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Speaker 2: and I probably throw Todoer and Pepswell he did are

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Speaker 2: the ones that you'd be thinking about.

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Speaker 1: First, Okay, and do what. I don't believe Simon Brown

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Speaker 1: for a moment, as much as I make back the idea,

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Speaker 1: and I do, but I don't believe it's not about

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Speaker 1: revenue raising. It's exactly about revenue raising, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think what they've said out here and this

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Speaker 2: is not dissimilar to the previous government as well, they've

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Speaker 2: tried to focus city councils on the utilization of the esset.

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Speaker 2: They want to smooth the peaks because we've spent so

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Speaker 2: long trying to build the peak and we know that

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Speaker 2: doesn't work. So I think as a sort of guardrail

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Speaker 2: for how we're going to do this, that's a positive step.

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Speaker 2: Of Course, they do raise revenue, right, and you've got

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Speaker 2: to figure out what to do with that revenue. And

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Speaker 2: the direction here is a little different to what we

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Speaker 2: saw previously.

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Speaker 1: Right, so you would use it for roads presumably.

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Speaker 2: Well, what they've said here is that they'll ring fence

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Speaker 2: it for the region, so that's not different to what

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Speaker 2: we've heard before. But what they've said is that they'll

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Speaker 2: bring in more weight for ends TA right, they've called

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Speaker 2: them a majority partner, and that they'll be shared revenues.

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Speaker 2: So what this really means is that, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: going to see a bit more partnership between government and

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Speaker 2: local government as to how these are spent within the region.

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Speaker 2: And of course that brings risks all of its own.

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Speaker 1: Is it inflationary? I mean, a career has to go

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Speaker 1: from A to B at the time that the Korean

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Speaker 1: needs to go from A to B and they're suddenly

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Speaker 1: going to pay for that, and that's money into the economy,

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Speaker 1: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, we already spend far more on our

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Speaker 2: transportation than we actually collect and transportation revenues right the

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Speaker 2: NLTF is bursting at the seams. Public transport fair do

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Speaker 2: not cover themselves, and so ultimately I would think more

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Speaker 2: about this being a change in how we're paying rather

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Speaker 2: than how much we're paying.

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Speaker 1: Do you need to control councils because once you give

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Speaker 1: them the right to start charging, where does it stop?

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Speaker 2: Do you need to control check? I think there's probably

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Speaker 2: horses for causes approach here. I mean, I think for

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Speaker 2: this one, you need councils getting some upside from congestion.

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Speaker 2: Charging like this is one of the most difficult policies

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Speaker 2: to get in. You know, worldwide, there's only a few

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Speaker 2: cities where this has worked. Where it has worked, it's

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Speaker 2: had significant reductions and severe congestion. Right, so we know

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Speaker 2: that this is the right thing to be focusing on.

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Speaker 2: But of course you need local governments to get something

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Speaker 2: out of it, and that has to be has to

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Speaker 2: be the revenue and the ability to manage the asset base.

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Speaker 1: The reason I ask is you look at u Las

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Speaker 1: and Young London's just goes wider and wider and wider.

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Speaker 1: There's no stopping them.

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Speaker 2: What a breach, starting to breach the city limits and whatnot?

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Speaker 1: Well, exactly the way up in Edinburgh before you know it.

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Speaker 2: Well, question charging is always something you want to think

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Speaker 2: about as a pricing mechanism if there's congestion around right,

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Speaker 2: So ultimately it continues to move wherever the congestion is

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Speaker 2: and spreads. It spreads it from that location and ultimately

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Speaker 2: that the point of it is that you spend less

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Speaker 2: on trans foot infrastructure, not more. So you know this

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Speaker 2: is about benefiting urban residents, not collecting more in taxes.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, Jef, nice to talk, You appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Cooper's the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission General Manager. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a while before they get the

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Speaker 1: legislation through parliament. And part of the reason I will

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Speaker 1: raise this in an hour with Christopher Luxen is the

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Speaker 1: reason it's going taking so long to get through Parliament's

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Speaker 1: Parliament's never open. You notice that they've like three or

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Speaker 1: four weeks off for the school holidays. Then they came

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Speaker 1: back for the last two weeks, and they're off again.

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Speaker 1: Luxeon's in the studio? Is he in the studio this morning?

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Speaker 1: He's in the studio this morning. Is no Parliament? Why

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Speaker 1: is Parliament closed this week? For God's sake? What's the

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Speaker 1: matter with them? For more from the mic Asking Breakfast,

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Speaker 1: listen live to news talks there'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.