1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,507 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:16,547 Speaker 2: Netball is navigating choppy waters right now. The future of 4 00:00:16,627 --> 00:00:20,147 Speaker 2: the A and Z Premiership is uncertain. Netball New Zealand 5 00:00:20,187 --> 00:00:23,347 Speaker 2: have said they'll run the competition next year a sixteen 6 00:00:23,427 --> 00:00:27,467 Speaker 2: format identical to this year, but there's no broadcast deal 7 00:00:27,547 --> 00:00:30,627 Speaker 2: in place yet and when that does come, it will 8 00:00:30,667 --> 00:00:35,467 Speaker 2: reportedly be at a vastly reduced level, meaning player payments 9 00:00:35,507 --> 00:00:38,547 Speaker 2: are very much in doubt. So what is the way 10 00:00:38,627 --> 00:00:42,747 Speaker 2: forward for netball at the elite level? Justin Nelson is 11 00:00:42,867 --> 00:00:46,147 Speaker 2: hugely respected and highly regarded for the way he firstly 12 00:00:46,587 --> 00:00:50,947 Speaker 2: guided our National Basketball League through Covid as its general 13 00:00:50,947 --> 00:00:53,387 Speaker 2: manager and then in his role as head of fan 14 00:00:53,467 --> 00:00:58,627 Speaker 2: Engagement at Sky, supercharged the competition with innovations like the 15 00:00:58,747 --> 00:01:02,227 Speaker 2: hugely successful Rapid League. He's not working in a new 16 00:01:02,307 --> 00:01:04,907 Speaker 2: job for the Australian National Basketball League, but he joins 17 00:01:04,987 --> 00:01:07,507 Speaker 2: us to add some ins. Justin, thanks for your time 18 00:01:07,507 --> 00:01:11,027 Speaker 2: this afternoon on Weekend Sport. What is your general view 19 00:01:11,387 --> 00:01:15,267 Speaker 2: on the challenging situation that nitball finds itself in New 20 00:01:15,387 --> 00:01:16,267 Speaker 2: Zealand right now? 21 00:01:16,987 --> 00:01:19,707 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for having me. Nice to still be remembered. 22 00:01:19,747 --> 00:01:23,107 Speaker 3: Thank you. It was a great introduction. I think it's 23 00:01:23,107 --> 00:01:25,067 Speaker 3: the same as any sport. I mean, Nepple's no different 24 00:01:25,107 --> 00:01:28,147 Speaker 3: to the challenges that lots of sports are facing around 25 00:01:28,187 --> 00:01:31,467 Speaker 3: the world, and that is, you know, change in innovation 26 00:01:31,827 --> 00:01:35,787 Speaker 3: and what the new and emerging fan is looking for 27 00:01:36,027 --> 00:01:39,787 Speaker 3: in sport, and they are looking for different They are 28 00:01:39,827 --> 00:01:43,027 Speaker 3: looking you know, you use the word supercharge. They're looking 29 00:01:43,067 --> 00:01:47,307 Speaker 3: for supercharged entertainment where they can socialize, have a great time, 30 00:01:47,827 --> 00:01:53,187 Speaker 3: enjoy the spectacle, but importantly an opportunity to connect with 31 00:01:53,667 --> 00:01:57,027 Speaker 3: the game. And that's what all sports are chasing. 32 00:01:57,827 --> 00:01:59,427 Speaker 4: Has nepball been slow to do that? 33 00:02:00,947 --> 00:02:02,627 Speaker 3: Well, look, I can only go by the time that 34 00:02:02,707 --> 00:02:05,547 Speaker 3: I spent in New Zealand, you know, six and a 35 00:02:05,587 --> 00:02:09,587 Speaker 3: half years. You would have to say yes. But it's 36 00:02:09,667 --> 00:02:13,627 Speaker 3: no different to a few other sports. But netball is 37 00:02:13,627 --> 00:02:14,707 Speaker 3: certainly one of those sports. 38 00:02:14,787 --> 00:02:18,467 Speaker 2: Yes, So if you're in charge of netball New Zealand, 39 00:02:18,707 --> 00:02:20,867 Speaker 2: what steps would you be taken right now? 40 00:02:22,227 --> 00:02:25,467 Speaker 3: Well, I think it starts in the boardroom and people 41 00:02:25,547 --> 00:02:29,067 Speaker 3: might find that strange, but it starts with the mentality 42 00:02:29,707 --> 00:02:33,067 Speaker 3: around the table. You need to be able to walk 43 00:02:33,067 --> 00:02:37,627 Speaker 3: into a situation where change in innovation is embraced. And 44 00:02:37,747 --> 00:02:39,947 Speaker 3: if you have people at the table, and I have 45 00:02:40,067 --> 00:02:43,627 Speaker 3: gone through this with different sports over the years, if 46 00:02:43,667 --> 00:02:47,667 Speaker 3: you have people at the table that want to continue 47 00:02:47,707 --> 00:02:51,267 Speaker 3: to do things the way they've always been done, chances 48 00:02:51,307 --> 00:02:53,627 Speaker 3: are it's not going to be a productive meeting. So 49 00:02:53,667 --> 00:02:56,507 Speaker 3: you need to be able to enter a room where 50 00:02:56,587 --> 00:03:00,587 Speaker 3: change and innovation is embraced, and anybody who doesn't want that, 51 00:03:01,227 --> 00:03:04,227 Speaker 3: they need to stand up and respectfully leave the room. 52 00:03:04,507 --> 00:03:06,987 Speaker 3: For me and my experience for it stuffs. 53 00:03:07,747 --> 00:03:11,187 Speaker 2: So when you were in your previous role justin with Sky, 54 00:03:11,187 --> 00:03:14,027 Speaker 2: did you go to netball New Zealand with some suggestions 55 00:03:14,027 --> 00:03:14,827 Speaker 2: for their competition? 56 00:03:15,867 --> 00:03:17,507 Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, I mean they were one of many sports 57 00:03:17,507 --> 00:03:20,187 Speaker 3: that I had suggestions for. Yep. So the answer is yes. 58 00:03:21,427 --> 00:03:25,387 Speaker 3: And you know, conversations with sports were always good, always productive. 59 00:03:25,747 --> 00:03:29,947 Speaker 3: Netball was one, always engaging. But then the next step 60 00:03:30,027 --> 00:03:31,187 Speaker 3: is what do you do with it? 61 00:03:32,867 --> 00:03:35,467 Speaker 2: So why didn't they do anything with the suggestions that 62 00:03:35,667 --> 00:03:37,467 Speaker 2: undoubtedly you gave them. I want to get to them 63 00:03:37,467 --> 00:03:40,547 Speaker 2: in a moment, but why do you think the boardroom 64 00:03:40,547 --> 00:03:43,627 Speaker 2: at Nepball New Zealand was one that was resistant to 65 00:03:43,787 --> 00:03:45,267 Speaker 2: innovation and change? 66 00:03:45,747 --> 00:03:48,187 Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, it's a hard one to answer, because you 67 00:03:48,227 --> 00:03:51,707 Speaker 3: don't always know the depth of the situation that a 68 00:03:51,787 --> 00:03:59,387 Speaker 3: sport is going through, calendars, agreements with player associations, where 69 00:03:59,387 --> 00:04:02,907 Speaker 3: they are in the landscape, financially, what is possible, what's 70 00:04:02,947 --> 00:04:05,427 Speaker 3: not possible, So you don't always know the depth of 71 00:04:05,427 --> 00:04:09,107 Speaker 3: what's going on behind the scenes. You can sit there 72 00:04:09,147 --> 00:04:14,747 Speaker 3: and you can talk about ideation and innovation all day long, 73 00:04:14,827 --> 00:04:18,107 Speaker 3: but there are other leavers and other mechanics that play 74 00:04:18,227 --> 00:04:23,187 Speaker 3: into that. But again, find a way. I'm a big 75 00:04:23,187 --> 00:04:26,987 Speaker 3: believer in finding a way, But that is one hurdle 76 00:04:27,027 --> 00:04:29,547 Speaker 3: that you don't always know when you're sitting there discussing 77 00:04:29,587 --> 00:04:30,147 Speaker 3: these things. 78 00:04:30,747 --> 00:04:35,427 Speaker 2: What changes and innovations would benefit NIPPLE in your view. 79 00:04:37,507 --> 00:04:40,507 Speaker 3: It's a great question, and it's only a personal opinion. 80 00:04:41,227 --> 00:04:46,627 Speaker 3: And you know, sometimes the boldness and courageousness of decisions 81 00:04:47,427 --> 00:04:50,987 Speaker 3: can be confronting, so it's probably a good way to 82 00:04:51,067 --> 00:04:56,307 Speaker 3: preface it. Some things will sit people down and surprise them. 83 00:04:56,427 --> 00:05:01,107 Speaker 3: But look when I look at netball and dearly love 84 00:05:01,947 --> 00:05:04,667 Speaker 3: my grandmother who passed away early this year, she spent 85 00:05:04,747 --> 00:05:07,187 Speaker 3: sixty years in that ball in Australia, very high level 86 00:05:07,187 --> 00:05:09,667 Speaker 3: and life membership, and so I have been attached to 87 00:05:09,707 --> 00:05:12,947 Speaker 3: the game in the past, and as a youngster, spent 88 00:05:13,067 --> 00:05:17,827 Speaker 3: many times on the sidelines watching my manner and games 89 00:05:17,827 --> 00:05:19,347 Speaker 3: of netball, so I've seen a bit of it. And 90 00:05:19,867 --> 00:05:21,947 Speaker 3: the one thing that's always struck me about the game 91 00:05:22,867 --> 00:05:25,347 Speaker 3: is if I bring it right back to grassroots, right 92 00:05:25,387 --> 00:05:29,307 Speaker 3: back to the beginning. When a child first connects with 93 00:05:29,467 --> 00:05:30,987 Speaker 3: the game, the one thing they want to do is 94 00:05:30,987 --> 00:05:32,987 Speaker 3: they want to shoot the ball. They want to score goals, 95 00:05:33,427 --> 00:05:36,587 Speaker 3: and then as you go through the game, there's only 96 00:05:36,627 --> 00:05:38,187 Speaker 3: a couple of players that can do that and it's 97 00:05:38,227 --> 00:05:43,267 Speaker 3: taken away. So you know, one of my thoughts around 98 00:05:43,307 --> 00:05:46,827 Speaker 3: the game is how do you evolve it into still 99 00:05:46,867 --> 00:05:50,667 Speaker 3: only having two players permitted inside the shooting circle at 100 00:05:50,707 --> 00:05:54,027 Speaker 3: any time, but it can be any two players. So 101 00:05:54,107 --> 00:05:58,667 Speaker 3: you've got seven players on the court strategically changing, innovating, 102 00:05:59,267 --> 00:06:02,427 Speaker 3: and you have any player step into that position and 103 00:06:02,427 --> 00:06:07,107 Speaker 3: shoot the ball. That's just one again, very very much 104 00:06:07,147 --> 00:06:09,907 Speaker 3: outside the square. But that is the sort of thing 105 00:06:09,947 --> 00:06:12,147 Speaker 3: that you need to start looking at if you truly 106 00:06:12,187 --> 00:06:14,747 Speaker 3: want to change and innovate, connect do something different, make 107 00:06:14,787 --> 00:06:20,227 Speaker 3: it more exciting, and you know, embrace something that maybe 108 00:06:20,427 --> 00:06:23,347 Speaker 3: is a way of connecting with a greater part of 109 00:06:23,387 --> 00:06:24,587 Speaker 3: your participation base. 110 00:06:25,227 --> 00:06:27,467 Speaker 2: To be fair to nip On New Zealand down the 111 00:06:27,507 --> 00:06:29,747 Speaker 2: a Z Premiership, they've dipped their toe in the water 112 00:06:29,827 --> 00:06:33,747 Speaker 2: with the two point shot. Is that a valuable innovation, 113 00:06:34,307 --> 00:06:36,427 Speaker 2: a valuable addition to the game in your view? 114 00:06:37,547 --> 00:06:39,907 Speaker 3: Well, I think you summed it up well, you know 115 00:06:40,227 --> 00:06:42,347 Speaker 3: Piney by saying they dip their toe in the water. 116 00:06:44,267 --> 00:06:50,107 Speaker 3: Analysis you need to go through how if speak to 117 00:06:50,147 --> 00:06:53,707 Speaker 3: the fans, what do they think? You know, I think 118 00:06:53,707 --> 00:06:56,067 Speaker 3: it is dipping the toe in the water. It's a 119 00:06:56,067 --> 00:07:01,347 Speaker 3: really good point. Sometimes when you innovate, it's not so 120 00:07:01,467 --> 00:07:03,747 Speaker 3: much about the innovation you put down, it's the way 121 00:07:03,787 --> 00:07:06,747 Speaker 3: people pick it up, accept it and run with it. 122 00:07:06,787 --> 00:07:08,507 Speaker 3: I mean, you talked about rapid League and the intro, 123 00:07:08,627 --> 00:07:12,587 Speaker 3: and you know, rapid League is an innovations suggestion, It's 124 00:07:12,587 --> 00:07:15,747 Speaker 3: an idea. It's very very different to what the game 125 00:07:15,787 --> 00:07:19,867 Speaker 3: has been used to anywhere in the world at any stage. 126 00:07:19,907 --> 00:07:24,147 Speaker 3: So you need people to think differently. No matter what 127 00:07:24,187 --> 00:07:26,747 Speaker 3: that innovation is, it's about how the people pick it up. 128 00:07:26,867 --> 00:07:29,227 Speaker 3: It's about how the people use it and how the 129 00:07:29,227 --> 00:07:33,347 Speaker 3: people experience it and enjoy it. And if more people 130 00:07:33,387 --> 00:07:37,467 Speaker 3: do that than those that don't, that innovation becomes successful, 131 00:07:37,467 --> 00:07:40,307 Speaker 3: and that's a good example of what has become successful. 132 00:07:40,547 --> 00:07:42,387 Speaker 3: But it's also the things you put around the sport, 133 00:07:42,467 --> 00:07:46,307 Speaker 3: the timing of the season, the ability for players to 134 00:07:46,387 --> 00:07:50,347 Speaker 3: play globally and go on and earn money in other competitions. 135 00:07:51,467 --> 00:07:55,267 Speaker 3: You know, I have been a person that's spoken in 136 00:07:55,307 --> 00:08:01,147 Speaker 3: the past about the competition in New Zealand for netball 137 00:08:01,187 --> 00:08:04,187 Speaker 3: clashing with the competition in Australia. I don't think that's 138 00:08:04,227 --> 00:08:07,107 Speaker 3: a good thing for the players and their ability to 139 00:08:07,107 --> 00:08:07,667 Speaker 3: earn a living. 140 00:08:08,547 --> 00:08:09,787 Speaker 4: I could not agree more. 141 00:08:10,027 --> 00:08:13,427 Speaker 2: And May June and July as busy anyway, but the 142 00:08:13,427 --> 00:08:17,427 Speaker 2: fact that it also clashes with the other professional netball 143 00:08:17,467 --> 00:08:21,867 Speaker 2: competition in this part of the world just seems, you know, 144 00:08:22,267 --> 00:08:24,907 Speaker 2: not ideal. So should neple new zeand just move the 145 00:08:24,907 --> 00:08:28,907 Speaker 2: competition window, give themselves clear air play it, I don't know, August, September, 146 00:08:28,947 --> 00:08:29,827 Speaker 2: October instead. 147 00:08:30,667 --> 00:08:33,227 Speaker 3: Well, for me, that's the first thing, that's the first 148 00:08:33,227 --> 00:08:36,507 Speaker 3: step to change. Do it in a way where the 149 00:08:36,547 --> 00:08:40,187 Speaker 3: players who are the stars of the show, they've got 150 00:08:40,187 --> 00:08:46,387 Speaker 3: the ability to apply their craft, play money, become global talents. 151 00:08:47,147 --> 00:08:50,627 Speaker 3: And that's something that if I'm in a sport like netball, 152 00:08:51,427 --> 00:08:54,307 Speaker 3: how do we become more global? How do our players 153 00:08:54,427 --> 00:08:57,867 Speaker 3: become more global? Our people go out there and perform 154 00:08:58,227 --> 00:09:00,747 Speaker 3: and be paid on a global stage. We see in football, 155 00:09:00,787 --> 00:09:03,867 Speaker 3: for instance, very very prevalent basketballs and other one global sport. 156 00:09:04,347 --> 00:09:09,947 Speaker 3: How do we allow our players to grow? So, for me, yeah, 157 00:09:10,187 --> 00:09:14,627 Speaker 3: that's one that should definitely happen. It's almost box number 158 00:09:14,627 --> 00:09:17,227 Speaker 3: one that you'd want to tick. Just getting back to 159 00:09:17,267 --> 00:09:23,267 Speaker 3: the innovation. One other thing that I've always found interesting, 160 00:09:23,347 --> 00:09:26,787 Speaker 3: that's probably a good word for it, is the center 161 00:09:26,827 --> 00:09:29,987 Speaker 3: pass after a goal in netball and the fact that 162 00:09:30,467 --> 00:09:32,427 Speaker 3: changes from one team to the other. There's not too 163 00:09:32,467 --> 00:09:36,907 Speaker 3: many sports where you can score and get the ball back. 164 00:09:38,547 --> 00:09:43,867 Speaker 3: For me, I've just been around sports where if you score, 165 00:09:44,227 --> 00:09:47,627 Speaker 3: the opposition gets the ball all the time. So again, 166 00:09:47,707 --> 00:09:49,947 Speaker 3: little things like that, What can you learn from other sports? 167 00:09:49,987 --> 00:09:52,387 Speaker 3: What can you see that other sports do that may 168 00:09:52,427 --> 00:09:55,667 Speaker 3: help you tweak and change a few things to take 169 00:09:55,707 --> 00:09:57,587 Speaker 3: your sport forward in a different direction. 170 00:09:58,587 --> 00:10:00,987 Speaker 2: Fans do seem to be turning up in pretty good numbers, 171 00:10:01,347 --> 00:10:04,387 Speaker 2: and the game day experience looks pretty good. I haven't 172 00:10:04,467 --> 00:10:07,787 Speaker 2: admittedly been to many games, but on TV, plenty of color, 173 00:10:07,787 --> 00:10:09,187 Speaker 2: lots of kids, that sort of thing. Do you think 174 00:10:09,227 --> 00:10:12,267 Speaker 2: nim All has done a pretty good job of engaging 175 00:10:12,307 --> 00:10:14,307 Speaker 2: its fans at venue? 176 00:10:15,027 --> 00:10:19,347 Speaker 3: Yeah? I do. I ventured to some Pulse games when 177 00:10:19,427 --> 00:10:24,227 Speaker 3: I was in Wellington and thoroughly enjoyed them. Really strong 178 00:10:24,427 --> 00:10:30,267 Speaker 3: connection with ensuring that those people go along and enjoy 179 00:10:30,307 --> 00:10:33,627 Speaker 3: the game. So yet, big big tip, no doubt about it. 180 00:10:33,667 --> 00:10:36,107 Speaker 3: But it goes beyond that. You're only as strong as 181 00:10:36,107 --> 00:10:38,427 Speaker 3: your weakest link. Is it happening in every stadium? Is 182 00:10:38,467 --> 00:10:43,307 Speaker 3: it consistent? Is the offering consistent? Can fans go along 183 00:10:43,467 --> 00:10:48,027 Speaker 3: and experience good, solid social outcomes? What's the demographic of 184 00:10:48,427 --> 00:10:51,907 Speaker 3: the audience? Is it too skewed one way? Whether that's 185 00:10:51,987 --> 00:10:54,707 Speaker 3: male female, where you know, whether it's gender based, whether 186 00:10:54,707 --> 00:10:58,627 Speaker 3: it's age based. Is it too skewed one way? So 187 00:10:58,707 --> 00:11:01,547 Speaker 3: all of those things you need to constantly It's almost 188 00:11:01,627 --> 00:11:04,587 Speaker 3: like on a weekly basis, you need to constantly be 189 00:11:04,707 --> 00:11:08,187 Speaker 3: digging really deep into the day. Are they collecting data? 190 00:11:08,627 --> 00:11:12,467 Speaker 3: You know, is a sport doing the right thing to 191 00:11:12,627 --> 00:11:15,347 Speaker 3: keep up with the pace, to keep up with the 192 00:11:15,427 --> 00:11:20,307 Speaker 3: emerging fan market by really trawling through the data. And 193 00:11:20,347 --> 00:11:22,467 Speaker 3: you can only trawl through the data if you've got it. 194 00:11:22,787 --> 00:11:25,387 Speaker 3: So all of these things, all of these little leavers 195 00:11:25,707 --> 00:11:31,347 Speaker 3: that sit around game day are absolutely vital to the health, 196 00:11:31,387 --> 00:11:35,067 Speaker 3: sustainability and growth of a business in sport. Any sport. 197 00:11:36,027 --> 00:11:38,907 Speaker 4: Will elite knitball survive in New Zealand. 198 00:11:39,467 --> 00:11:41,347 Speaker 3: I hope so, yeah, I hope. So I want all 199 00:11:41,347 --> 00:11:44,467 Speaker 3: sports to survive on You know, you've known me well 200 00:11:44,547 --> 00:11:49,547 Speaker 3: enough now that all sports have a place. When people 201 00:11:50,107 --> 00:11:53,307 Speaker 3: speak to me about, you know, what sport do I 202 00:11:53,347 --> 00:11:56,387 Speaker 3: think their young child should play, I say all of them. 203 00:11:56,467 --> 00:12:00,067 Speaker 3: Experience as many as you possibly can, because that's the 204 00:12:00,227 --> 00:12:03,147 Speaker 3: enjoyment of getting active and getting into a sport, and 205 00:12:03,187 --> 00:12:05,787 Speaker 3: you'll find one that sticks, and then you have that 206 00:12:05,867 --> 00:12:10,267 Speaker 3: connection and that deep connection and aspiration through to the 207 00:12:10,307 --> 00:12:12,907 Speaker 3: elite level. And you need to see the elite level. 208 00:12:12,947 --> 00:12:15,027 Speaker 3: You need to be able to go to the elite level. 209 00:12:15,427 --> 00:12:17,747 Speaker 3: You know, if it's switch the TV on, you need 210 00:12:17,787 --> 00:12:21,027 Speaker 3: to see it to be it. So yeah, one hundred percent, 211 00:12:21,067 --> 00:12:24,507 Speaker 3: it should be there. But from what I'm seeing and hearing, 212 00:12:24,547 --> 00:12:26,867 Speaker 3: and obviously you've got me on today, so people are 213 00:12:26,907 --> 00:12:30,587 Speaker 3: talking about it. It's at the crossroads. And when you're 214 00:12:30,587 --> 00:12:33,627 Speaker 3: at the crossroads, you need to think differently, you need 215 00:12:33,667 --> 00:12:37,427 Speaker 3: to act differently. You need to embrace change and innovation. 216 00:12:37,667 --> 00:12:41,267 Speaker 3: And most importantly, you need to be bold and courageous. 217 00:12:42,267 --> 00:12:45,987 Speaker 2: Very interesting, thought provoking stuff as always from you, Justin. 218 00:12:45,987 --> 00:12:47,987 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for taking the time for a chat 219 00:12:48,027 --> 00:12:49,387 Speaker 2: this afternoon. Really appreciate it. 220 00:12:49,907 --> 00:12:51,667 Speaker 3: Hey, thanks for remembering who I am. 221 00:12:52,947 --> 00:12:56,467 Speaker 2: No danger off forgetting you Justin. Thanks mate, Justin Nilson. 222 00:12:57,027 --> 00:13:00,227 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 223 00:13:00,347 --> 00:13:03,747 Speaker 1: to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday, or follow the 224 00:13:03,747 --> 00:13:05,267 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.