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Speaker 1: Now we got another corporate as I was telling you earlier,

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Speaker 1: who ditched its climate targets. Volvo has just announced it's

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Speaker 1: going to abandon the plan to be fully electric by

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Speaker 1: twenty thirty. Add to that, GM done a similar thing,

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Speaker 1: for done a similar thing in New Zealand, and even

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Speaker 1: a country, Sweden abandoning similar plans. Associate Professor Doctor Rob

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Speaker 1: Hale specializes in sustainability at Griffith Business School in Queensland

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Speaker 1: and is with us.

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Speaker 2: Hey Rob, Hi, how are you doing very well?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Why do you think Volvo set the twenty

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Speaker 1: thirty target if they couldn't achieve it well.

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Speaker 2: I think a few years ago there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of noise, a lot of excitement about net zero targets,

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Speaker 2: and I think this was all great to get corporate

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Speaker 2: businesses across the world, not just New Zealand, interested in

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Speaker 2: this area. And I think what's happening now there's a

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Speaker 2: bit of a maturation or maturity happening within corporations. And

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Speaker 2: there's some other factors as well coming in terms of

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Speaker 2: transparency and actually being able to deliver on some of

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Speaker 2: the claims. But I think there's a little bit more

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Speaker 2: maturity in terms of how we can actually go about

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Speaker 2: near zero.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, what they're doing is getting ahead of what was inevitable. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's much better to ditch it in twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: than to get to twenty thirty and be busted.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's correct. And in New Zealand there is a

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Speaker 2: case in terms of greenwashing coming up in the courts there,

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Speaker 2: and there has been a number of cases in Australia,

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Speaker 2: quite a few in Australia whether the corporate regulator is

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Speaker 2: actually examining the claims of corporations quite seriously and finding

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Speaker 2: and taking businesses to court and also issuing notices to

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Speaker 2: comply with the advertising of their claims for sustainability and

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Speaker 2: climate change.

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Speaker 1: Ah. So do you anticipate then that this is just

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Speaker 1: the start of it? I mean, we're going to see

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Speaker 1: a lot more businesses walk away from their twenty thirty

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Speaker 1: targets as we approach it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think so. I think what's going to

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Speaker 2: happen is a term called green hushing. You might know

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Speaker 2: about green washing, but green hushing is actually keeping your

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Speaker 2: targets and keeping the mechanisms to try and get there

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Speaker 2: a bit quiet. So there's been some industry studies out

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Speaker 2: there to show that you know, up to twenty five

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Speaker 2: percent of businesses aren't actually disclosing in the public what

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Speaker 2: their targets are, but they're actually going ahead with, you know,

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Speaker 2: trying to meet targets and got good mechanisms to do

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Speaker 2: so within their business. But they're just being a little

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Speaker 2: bit more reserved about how they go about advertising these things,

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Speaker 2: mainly because of the liability issues of false advertising.

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Speaker 1: And do they just announce it? Do they announce it

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Speaker 1: then if they reach it and they just keep it quiet,

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Speaker 1: if they don't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're or they're waiting to see how they go.

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Speaker 2: I think they're not. They may be saying that they're

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Speaker 2: committed to net zero. You know, this is a claim

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Speaker 2: that it's quite easy to maintain over time. But to say,

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Speaker 2: you know that you're getting out of the petrol game,

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Speaker 2: which one company in New Zealand said they're going to,

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Speaker 2: and then that got them into a little bit of

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Speaker 2: trouble because they're getting out of it, but then petrol

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Speaker 2: sales increased in their business. You're talking about, that's correct, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so you know, who knows where that's going to land

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Speaker 2: in terms of the outcome. But the fact that it's

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Speaker 2: going to you know, it's being disputed, means that companies

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Speaker 2: are being very careful about claims that they're making now.

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean they say that they're necessarily shying away.

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Speaker 2: Because you've still got legislation in New Zealand and soon

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Speaker 2: to be introduced in Australia next early next year in

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Speaker 2: terms of accountability standards, sustainability accountability standards coming in.

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Speaker 1: Rob there are obviously industries who will really struggle them.

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Speaker 1: In the airline sector is one that's going to struggle

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Speaker 1: because what's the alternative. You know, like there's just not enough,

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Speaker 1: there's not enough sustainable aviation fuel to be able to use.

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Speaker 1: But what proportion of industry do you think is actually

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Speaker 1: going to be able to meet its targets in twenty

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Speaker 1: thirty across an economy.

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Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think there's another factor in

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Speaker 2: here as well which makes it difficult to answer, is

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Speaker 2: that the one point five scenario that was dated to

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Speaker 2: be twenty fifty if you've been following that, I think

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Speaker 2: in COP twenty nine coming up, we're going to see

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Speaker 2: a shifting of the date of when one point five

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Speaker 2: realistically is going to occur. Like, we've got a one

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Speaker 2: point five net zero target. Yeah, and we've had you know,

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Speaker 2: one point five degrees happened for more than five years

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Speaker 2: in a row. The average over ten years is what determines,

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Speaker 2: you know, what is one point five degrees in the globe.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I can I could bet my house

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Speaker 2: that that date is going to change as to when

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Speaker 2: we have the target set for net zero one point five.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to be twenty fifty.

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Speaker 1: When is it going to be Well.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to say. I was actually just talking to

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Speaker 2: a colleague about it beforehand. It's hard to say where

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Speaker 2: it's going to land. You can look up quite easily

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Speaker 2: in Nature and other peer review journals talking about the

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Speaker 2: twenty thirties as when the one point five degree mark

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Speaker 2: is going to be crossed, you know, and that's probably

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Speaker 2: what's going to be debated at COP twenty nine coming up.

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Speaker 2: So when a company says, oh, yes, we're going to

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Speaker 2: be aiming for one point five twenty fifty, there are

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Speaker 2: challenges trying to meet that. But then there is extra

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Speaker 2: dimension of you know that that target I believe is

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Speaker 2: going to change downwards any terms of time, So that

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Speaker 2: poses even more challenges for businesses that are really progressive

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Speaker 2: and even making those targets. So let alone the ones

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Speaker 2: that you know in industries that are hard to abate

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Speaker 2: like airlines and also companies that rely a lot on

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Speaker 2: transport as well, that that's quite a tricky one.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, I really appreciate your time. It's doctor Rob

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Speaker 1: Hale's associate professor specializing in sustainability at Griffith Business School

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Speaker 1: in Queensland. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen

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