1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: Kilda. I'm Georgina Campbell in for Chelsea Daniels and this 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Several weeks ago, the government dramatically move 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: to take control of House New Zealand by appointing Professor 5 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: Lester Levy as a commissioner. He has the unenviable task 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: of finding one point four billion dollars in savings while 7 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: also improving services and meeting the government's national health targets. 8 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: In the weeks that have followed, the dire state of 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: our healthcare has become clearer, with patient wait times dragging midwinter, 10 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: back office staff facing voluntary redundancy, and new mums struggling 11 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: to get post birth toast. It begs the question will 12 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: this cost cut inevitably be put ahead of healthcare? Today? 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: On the Front Page, I'm joined by New Zealand Herald 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: senior health reporter Isaac Davidson to find out what the 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: troubled state of tafata Aura means for the future of 16 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: healthcare in New Zealand. Isaac, why did the government appoint 17 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: a commissioner at House New Zealand? 18 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 2: Yeah? 19 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 3: So really from day one, government started expressing concerns about 20 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: Health and Z or Tafuta Aura's performance. It had already 21 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: talked about being skeptical about the reforms, and so it 22 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 3: began to act in December broad on this Crown Observer. 23 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 3: And this was just because of concern about the amount 24 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: of time people waiting and workforce gaps, and these concerns 25 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: then really intensified around March, and this is when it 26 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 3: became evident how much Health then Z was overspending by 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 3: so said at the time it was around one hundred 28 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: and thirty million dollars a month that it was overspending. 29 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: And it put in place some of these initial responses 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: en Z, did you know, hiring freeze around non frontline workers, 31 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: cracking down on overtime and taking leave, but all those restrictions, 32 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 3: so it weren't enough. And then at the same time 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 3: you had unrest on the board. Three board members didn't 34 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 3: seek reappointment, another couple resigned before their term is up. 35 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: All these issues just came to a head in July 36 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: and Shane Retty stepped in, brought in the commissioner, Lester Levy, 37 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 3: who had already been appointed chair at Health end Z. 38 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 3: Two remaining board members were effectively sacked and the rationale 39 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 3: that was given at the time, Retti said it was 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: basically financial mismanagement that was going to lead to a 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 3: deficit of about one point four billion. They didn't have 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 3: enough oversight and also these reforms that were coming through 43 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 3: were being mismanaged too. 44 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: So that's pretty serious intervention, right, like a commissioner. Can 45 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: you just put that into context for me? 46 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the most serious thing Retti can do in 47 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: terms of the legislation which governs health end zed. He 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 3: has a few options which escalate. One of them was interim, 49 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 3: one was the Crown Observer. The most serious is bringing 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 3: in a commissioner, which he's now done. 51 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 1: And Lester Levy was already the chair previously. What else 52 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: can you tell us about who he is a little 53 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: bit about his background? 54 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, so he has a long record in these sorts 55 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: of roles in health and academia and local government. So 56 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: he's a trained doctor, that's his background. It's originally from 57 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 3: South Africa and he's had sort of over twenty five years. 58 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 3: He's headed up the Blood Service, the old Mercy Ascott Hospital, 59 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: Auckland Transport. 60 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 2: He also cheered three of the DHBs. 61 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 3: Under the old system, in Auckland, including counties Minico where 62 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: he met he first met Marjori Uppo, who's now head 63 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 3: of Health end Z. Just one thing just worth plucking 64 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: out of his background as biography is that when you 65 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: grow up in South Africa, he lived in Sharpville and 66 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 3: this is where this sort of infamous massacre was when 67 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: police open fire and black protesters. The reason I mentioned 68 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 3: that is because he said it was only six at 69 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: the time, but it really shaped the rest of his life, 70 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: both his personal life and professional life. Just to pluck 71 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 3: out a couple of things, he said, I developed a 72 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 3: mindset of not necessarily it's accepting the status quo, never 73 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 3: to fall victim to complacency and different rance. Never had 74 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: a great desire to fit in. And he also said 75 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: they don't need to be popular or part of the establishment. 76 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 77 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: I mentioned that because it gives you a bit of 78 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: a clue about why he's taken on this hard roll 79 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: and my government might bring him in. And also just 80 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 3: when he's facing so much resistance from the health system, 81 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 3: that's sort of the background that he's bringing in. 82 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And look you've mentioned Marjie Arper. How is 83 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 1: Lester Levy getting on in terms of working alongside the 84 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: chief executive and management at health en Z to funt Aura. 85 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he knows her well, so he was chair 86 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 3: or while she was chief executive at Counties. I think 87 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 3: they got off to a pretty bad start. In that 88 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 3: very first press conference when he was brought in commissioner, 89 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 3: he was asked directly did he have confidence in his 90 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: chief executive? And his first response was fair question, Professor Levy. 91 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 4: I know this is a kind of brutal question to 92 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: ask in this context, but then don't you've moved of 93 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 4: them as a County's actually said three years to get 94 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 4: speeding with him, two years just to cret years to 95 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 4: get to spend with in constraints. Do you have confidence 96 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 4: in her long term? So yeah, to answer that and 97 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 4: fair questions, so I've just been appointed. 98 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: What I can and will say is that. 99 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 4: I've been impressed by Margie's willingness to readjust to a 100 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 4: new direction and the effort that she's making to do that. 101 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 4: I'm not fixed on outcomes about any of these things, 102 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 4: open on outcomes, so we see how it goes. Right 103 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 4: at the moment, Do I have confidence in Marjorie to 104 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 4: do what we need to do? Yes, I do, because 105 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 4: she's already doing it. 106 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 3: It went on to say that it being impressed by 107 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 3: a willingness to sort of take how things had in 108 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 3: a new direction. But that's not exactly a ringing endorsement, 109 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 3: and since then it has got worse in some senses. 110 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: There was this moment last month when health Ing ZIR 111 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 3: bosses gave a presentation internal presentation which Margie was part of, 112 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 3: and they outlined how thousands of jobs were being reviewed, 113 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: including specialists and nurses, and this led to Leicester Lee 114 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 3: by giving a pretty extraordinary public critic of the leadership, 115 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 3: including Marjorie Arpa. It used words like unacceptable, deeply disappointing. 116 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 3: It's a direct conflict with commitments he had made around 117 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: not cutting the front line, so that relationship already had 118 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 3: a few wobbles. 119 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty public criticism. Is there any indications 120 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: to what their relationships like now or have we seen 121 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: anything else play out in public since then? 122 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: We haven't. 123 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: That has sort of really been the last we've heard 124 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 3: on it. I guess one thing to add was that 125 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: Upper might have reason to be concerned if you look 126 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 3: at the way that government has acted in other sort 127 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: of underperforming or what it sees as underperforming areas. If 128 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 3: you look at Kaiing Aura put out a big review, 129 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 3: came back with damning results, and then rarely was quite 130 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: ruthless and rolled the entire boards. So she would surely 131 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 3: have one eye on that sort of thing. 132 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: And you have mentioned some of the financial difficulty. Can 133 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: we just dig into that a little bit more? What 134 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: do we know about the state of House New Zealand's books. 135 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, so when the commissioner was brought in there was 136 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 3: sort of two distinct arguments. Government said this is financial 137 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 3: mismanagement and the opposition or labour said, well, actually it's 138 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 3: underfunding how things. He is underfunded. So if we look 139 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 3: back we can see that how things he had ran 140 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 3: a deficit in its first year, so this is twenty 141 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: twenty two to twenty three, but these were one off problems, 142 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: mostly costs related to COVID, so nothing too major. It 143 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: was then projected to make savings in its second year. 144 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 3: This is partly because of it was all streamlining and 145 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: reducing duplication and services and so forth. But this is 146 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: as I mentioned earlier, it became apparent this wasn't going 147 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: to happen. It was by March this year, it was 148 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: clear that it was spending sort of one hundred and 149 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: thirty million too much a month. It's really important to 150 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 3: look at what's driving this overspend. Its two key factors. 151 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: One is the pay equity settlement for nurses, and the second, 152 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 3: which they talked about quite a lot publicly, is overspending 153 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: on nurse recruitment. So New Zealand had a massive shortage 154 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 3: of nurses aggressively recruited under the previous government and this government, 155 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: and that's now overcorrected. There's still vacancies, but that there's 156 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 3: got a long way to addressing that. I guess the 157 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 3: reason it's important to drive those factors is that no 158 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 3: politician would say we've got too much nurses. So it 159 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: doesn't quite fit as easily with that argument of financial 160 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: mismanagement and wasteful spending when you know that's what's driving it. 161 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, So what does labor have to say in response 162 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: to those accusations because this government is blaming the previous 163 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: government for what they say is mismanagement. 164 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 165 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 3: So it's opposition in particular. So former Health Minister A 166 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: Cheverel says the problem stem from inadequate levels of funding 167 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: provided by the new government, especially in this year's budget. 168 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 3: She particularly points to health officials saying earlier this year 169 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 3: they'd need a bigger top up than forecasts. So before 170 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: the election there was an estimate of what it would 171 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 3: need that has now changed, and that's because of things 172 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 3: like demographic changes and inflation. They didn't get this in 173 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: the budget. They got the lower estimate. So to quote 174 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: Verril on this to summon it, the government's trying to 175 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: pretend this is something to do with health and zed governance. 176 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: It is to do with their budget, she said. And 177 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 2: we saw some backing for this and. 178 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 3: Editorial and New Zealand Medical Journal a few weeks ago 179 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 3: and where researchers looked and drilled down into this and 180 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: said cost overruns were unlikely to be solely caused by 181 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 3: port management and really successive governments had underfunded health. 182 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: So plenty of problems are pretty big mountain to climb. 183 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: How does Levy plan to turn all of this around? 184 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so he outlined a few priorities, getting spending under control, 185 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 3: reducing bureaucracy. We had this slightly notorious comic now that 186 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 3: Christopher Luxe and the Prime Minister made around there being 187 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 3: fourteen layers of bureaucracy between the top of tafutor and 188 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 3: the patient has now been shown to be slightly false, 189 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 3: but les Leeves certainly said it's a bloated organization. That's 190 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 3: what he wants to crack down on. Also talking about 191 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,359 Speaker 3: better value for spending, so improving performance. That's really around productivity, 192 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 3: and he singled out surgical weightlist or weightlists, which blown 193 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 3: out as really one of his top priorities. He's also 194 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 3: wanting healthcare to become more localized again, so under Health 195 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: n Z it feels it's become too centralized. 196 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: In Wellington. 197 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 3: He's talked about a hard reset and he's made some 198 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: moves already in that direction by appointing for regional deputy 199 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 3: chief executives and rationale for that is what he calls 200 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: bringing decision making closer to communities. So there's a bit 201 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 3: of devolvement going on there, but the main thing is 202 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: really tackling that overspend and changing the shape of health 203 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: in New Zealand making it a bit smaller, changing its 204 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 3: structure and reducing non frontline roles to meet this budgets. 205 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: And one of the things that has been put on 206 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: the table is a voluntary redundancy scheme. Can you tell 207 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: us more about that. 208 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, So last week care was put out by Tafatura 209 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 3: for voluntary redundancies to people working in health administration, advisory 210 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 3: and knowledge roles. 211 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: This is what they would call back office roles. The 212 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: union says. 213 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 3: The jobs like are people that schedule operations, keeping on 214 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: top of supply chains HR communications. So people can now 215 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 3: put their names forward. That's the limit of it so far, 216 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 3: but it may be extended further if they do want 217 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 3: to cut more jobs. 218 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: The PSA, in response to that redundancy scheme said, this 219 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: looks like and I quote, to be part of the 220 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: government's agenda to strip back public services as a prelude 221 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: to privatization. Is there any truth to that, any response 222 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: from the government to those suggestions. 223 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: It's a big claim and I haven't seen government respond 224 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 3: to it. I guess at the heart of that is 225 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 3: the concern that while politicians would call these back office 226 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 3: roles that by removing them, you desabilize the foundations of 227 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 3: the health system. That's what the union said, So it's 228 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 3: cutting the staff which make diagnosis and treatment possible. The 229 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 3: people to underline that, and also that it's unfocused and 230 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: broad it's cost cutting without considering how it to. 231 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: Affect people's health. 232 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 3: I think psare probably thinking a little bit as well 233 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 3: about the UK, where under a conservative government the NHS 234 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: was ground down and underfunded and then services were privatized. 235 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: One more thing to mention is that in this underfunded 236 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: health system there's already been sort of a quiet creep 237 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 3: of private ownership in some areas. I'm thinking of the 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 3: diversion of elective surgeries into private practice of private doctor 239 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 3: has been helping out with backlogs, and also the purchase 240 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,479 Speaker 3: of GP clinics by private companies. 241 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: And just on cost cutting. I wrote a story at 242 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: the weekend about Wellington Regional Hospital no longer offering to 243 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: host with spreads to mums who have just given birth. 244 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: They said that they were doing this following advice from 245 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: dietitians that toast is nutritionally suboptimal. Labor said it believes 246 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: this is cost cutting, and a father whose partner had 247 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: given birth that weekend was also told by hospital staff 248 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: that it was cost cutting. 249 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 5: Lead emails seen by One News shows the moves not 250 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 5: just about nutrition than king. A Health New Zealand general 251 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 5: manager wrote to Stuff saying the patient food budget blew 252 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 5: out by one and a half million dollars last year, 253 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,599 Speaker 5: part of the reason being staff and members of the 254 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 5: public were eating the food. He said, in the fiscal environment, 255 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 5: these practices are untenable. 256 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 6: This is such a small cost saving strategy on the 257 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 6: scale of the becasts that a hospital has, but a 258 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 6: massive cost for goodwill. 259 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: So it's an interesting example of what's going on. And 260 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: a piece of toast is such a simple thing. A 261 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: loaf of bread doesn't cost a lot, but it clearly 262 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: meant so much and has meant so much to mums. 263 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: Lots of people posted on social media about a cup 264 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: of tea or a milo and a piece of toast 265 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: after giving birth was just the best toast that they'd 266 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 1: had in their life. Can you tell us a bit 267 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: more about that or what you make of it, or 268 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,119 Speaker 1: if you have your own experience. 269 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do bring a little bit of personal experience 270 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 3: to this. When we had our second child at Auckland Hospital, 271 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 3: we went across the road to part our birth care 272 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: and it was late at night, about ten or eleven 273 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 3: at night, and we were supplied a brilliant cheese toasty 274 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: by the care there. And it's hard to overstate how 275 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 3: good that was. It was sort of this transcendent culinary experience. 276 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 3: And I'm not even the one that did all the 277 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: work with having our child, so I can see. It's 278 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: just one of those emotional issues of when funding affects 279 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: people on a human level, it just brings the mind 280 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: as well. When Lester Levy gave his first speech as Commissioner, 281 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 3: and one of the other things he said amongst his 282 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,359 Speaker 3: priorities was so the health system needs to be more compassionate, 283 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 3: he gave this slightly extraordinary quote that the health system 284 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: needs to be infused with the milk of human kindness. 285 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: It's quite maternal image. I think denying mother's a piece 286 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 3: of toast after birth is probably not what he had 287 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 3: in mind, but it's one of those issues. It's sort 288 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 3: of the funding debate in microcosm rearly in one hand 289 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 3: saying it's been done for health reasons, you know, mutual reasons, 290 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: the other because there's. 291 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: Not enough money. 292 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 3: And we'll see more stories like this and more serious 293 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: ones as this sort of funding debate goes on. You know, 294 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 3: it reminds us as real people behind these decisions and 295 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 3: whose experience of health system might be suffering. We've seen 296 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 3: a few really serious examples just in the last week, 297 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 3: you know, people queuing from six am to see a 298 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: gp in Otara hospital eds without doctors overnight. 299 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 300 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: As I say, see a lot more stories like this 301 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 3: was the health system and transition or someone' say in crisis. 302 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: The toast situation is certainly not what the House Minister 303 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: Shane Retti had in mind and he strongly urged the 304 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: hospital to reconsider its position and just to say that 305 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: it has. In fact you turned and toast will continue 306 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: to be offered for new muns. I mean, what does 307 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: the current state of House New Zealand mean for the 308 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: future of our housecare? Is it that we're just going 309 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: to see more and more of these stories as you say. 310 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the bigger picture is you've got these big, 311 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: long running problems that are beginning to stack up on 312 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 3: top of each other. You got growing aging population, people 313 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 3: with more complex conditions, iniquities and in terms of access 314 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,479 Speaker 3: to health care depending on where you live or your ethnicity. 315 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 3: And at the same time you've got a shrinking, aging 316 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: workforce means exhausted and burnt out and laid over that 317 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 3: you've got the shock of COVID nineteen, which is still 318 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: reverberating and affecting things like shortages and waitlists. So it's 319 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 3: a concern when you look at all that the biggest 320 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: health provider in the country is in poor shape. You know, 321 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 3: Health New Zealand was broad in after a big review 322 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 3: and it was meant to be a new way of 323 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: doing things, tackling and equity and providing consistent healthcare around 324 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 3: the country. It's now just over two years old, it's 325 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 3: already been drastically altered, and now some of its reforms 326 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 3: are being reversed. Our health authority scraped, the board's gone. 327 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: So Levy really needs to get Health end Zed working 328 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 3: quickly if we're going to fulfill some of the promise 329 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: on which it was built and tackle some of these 330 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 3: really big picture issues. He said in a speach a 331 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: couple of things that's worth pointing out. He said, I'm 332 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 3: not a religious person, but please pray for me, so 333 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 3: I don't think he's got any illusions about the task ahead. 334 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 3: He also said one thing that sort of came as 335 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 3: a bit of a warning that in terms of the 336 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 3: changes he's making, they're going to be fast and painful. 337 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 3: I certainly don't know that some of the issues that 338 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: are changed. I'm not sure about the fast part, but 339 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 3: I'd certainly agree that there's probably quite a bit more 340 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 3: pain to come. 341 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us, Isaac. That's it for 342 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: this episode of the Front Page. You can read more 343 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: about today's stories and extensive news coverage at zidherld dot 344 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: co dot nzed. The Front Page is produced by Ethan 345 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: Sills and sound engineer Patti Fox. I'm Georgina Campbell. Subscribe 346 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get 347 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look behind 348 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: the headlines.