1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: Right, we're going to talk about TJ Pirean, a senior.

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,000
Speaker 1: All Blacks coaches and indeed Rugby staff have all said

3
00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,399
Speaker 1: they felt blindsided by his protest before his final huker

4
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,800
Speaker 1: last November. You remember that he ignited controversy making a

5
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,680
Speaker 1: statement right before the Hacker that most of us have

6
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,959
Speaker 1: interpreted as a criticism of the act Party's Treaty Principles Bill.

7
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,119
Speaker 1: Members of the management and playing group have told the

8
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,160
Speaker 1: Heralds Gregor Paul that they didn't give TJ permission to

9
00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 1: politicize the Hacker, and Gregor Paul is with me this evening.

10
00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,040
Speaker 2: Good ah, good evening.

11
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,000
Speaker 1: So did anyone know exactly what he was going to do?

12
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,519
Speaker 2: I don't think it's strictly clear that there was an

13
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 2: exact or specific mention of you know, here's exactly what

14
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 2: I will see when I lead the Hacker. My understanding

15
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 2: is that TJ was fairly consistent with a broadbrush view

16
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: that he wanted to provide what he called a message

17
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 2: of unity, and no one really inquired overly as to

18
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 2: you know, what specifically that would entail.

19
00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:06,039
Speaker 1: Do you think they should have?

20
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,240
Speaker 2: Oh? I think there's yes, that there's clearly you know,

21
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 2: procedural or protocol faults internally within the All Blacks. Yeah,

22
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 2: if you go through what happened piece by piece, I

23
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 2: mean that should have been brought up earlier in the

24
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,800
Speaker 2: week at a leader's meeting, you know, it should have

25
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 2: been put in front of the whole team to form

26
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 2: a view upon. And again, even even when management became

27
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 2: away late in the peace just before kickoff that that

28
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,680
Speaker 2: TJ was you know, adamant he wanted to say something.

29
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,160
Speaker 2: Even then, there were there were options available to management

30
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 2: to either you know, remove him as the hacker leader

31
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,399
Speaker 2: if they were uncomfortable, or you know, or remove him

32
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,560
Speaker 2: entirely from the match day twenty three if that's what

33
00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 2: they felt. The risk of the scenario of him saying

34
00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,200
Speaker 2: something I'm sanctioned was going to be.

35
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 1: So here's the problem I've got. So you've got this

36
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 1: story that's come out, so finally we're getting the kind

37
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,040
Speaker 1: of the insight on what really went down. But at

38
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 1: the time after words, there was a big show of

39
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,280
Speaker 1: unity from the playing and the coaching group. You know,

40
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,560
Speaker 1: everyone was honky dory after it happened. So why the

41
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 1: show of unity afterwards?

42
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. I'm not sure they were Hunky Dorry.

43
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,360
Speaker 2: I think they made a decision between certainly the captain

44
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 2: Scott Barrett and the coach Scott Robertson took a view

45
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:27,639
Speaker 2: that look TJ. Perrinhara has been a wonderful servant of rugby.

46
00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,440
Speaker 2: He's a highly respected figure. He's been a warrior. You know,

47
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 2: he's deeply admired and respected in the team and in

48
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,679
Speaker 2: the international rugby game. And he was making his last appearance.

49
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 2: So they took a view that they didn't feel that

50
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: they wanted to sully his reputation despite the fact they

51
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,000
Speaker 2: were disappointed at the way things had gone that night,

52
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 2: that they could do the level best to support him

53
00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,440
Speaker 2: or to not give away that, you know, what had

54
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,079
Speaker 2: really happened. He was moving off into Japan. They could

55
00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 2: deal with this internally over the summer. They could work

56
00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,000
Speaker 2: out what went wrong, how they can improve that. Your

57
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 2: systems will need to put in place to make sure

58
00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,240
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen again. And they didn't need to tarnish TJ.

59
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,880
Speaker 2: Paran Hour's reputation. But you know, in the end, well

60
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 2: that might be a kind of noble and admirable thing

61
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,639
Speaker 2: that they wanted to do that does need to be

62
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,720
Speaker 2: a public address of the issue, because it clearly it

63
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what your politics are. Clearly it was divisive,

64
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,399
Speaker 2: clearly disunited people. And the ol Blecks are all about

65
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 2: unity themselves internally, but they're a team that feels that

66
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 2: they're there to unite the country as well. They're the

67
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 2: people's team, so that kind of thing can't continue for them.

68
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 2: They can't divide people.

69
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: Gregor, thanks for that really interesting report, Grigapool and zid

70
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 1: Herald rugby Riding. For more from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive,

71
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,040
Speaker 1: listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

72
00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:53,360
Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio