1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,840 Speaker 1: So the Order to General has been looking into our 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: education systems, specifically inequality, basically why some kids do well 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: at school and others don't. The educational gaps between rich 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: and poor students are among the largest in the world. Apparently, 5 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: the Education Minister Erica Stanford's with us very good morning 6 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: to you. Good morning make is does the report make sense? 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: Is there something to act on here or not? 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: Well? Absolutely, and the report is just another report telling 9 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 2: us the same thing that we've known for a really 10 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: long time. It crystallizes lots of data points. It talks 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: about what Aero's been saying for ages about not having 12 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: consistent nationwide picture of student achievement and progress. It talks 13 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: about a lack of data, evidence and anything that we're doing. 14 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 2: You know. It basically says all of the things that 15 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: we've known for a long time that no one's been 16 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 2: able to tackle. But luckily all of the recommendations basically 17 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 2: some of my six point action plan. So that's that's 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 2: been one good thing about it. 19 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: The reason I asked the question is he also says 20 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: the general line that our students perform well similarly to 21 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: or better than other OECD countries been led to believe 22 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: we're useless, Are we or not? 23 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: The problem that we've got in New Zealand is that 24 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: our top kids are amongst the top of the world, 25 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: but we have an enormous, yawning gap between those kids 26 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: and the kids at the bottom, and it is the 27 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 2: worst in the world, and it's not getting any better. 28 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: The richer getting richer and the poorer getting poorer in 29 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 2: education in this country. And until we have a clear curriculum, 30 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: until we have consistent methods of assessing them, until we're 31 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 2: using evidence based teaching methods, until we're investing in our 32 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: amazing teachers, until we've got learning supports ordered that the 33 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,759 Speaker 2: right child's getting the right support at the right time, 34 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: And until we use a much better until we use 35 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: best data better, nothing will change. But we already know 36 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 2: that in order to change a close that equity gap, 37 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: if you do those things well, then you will make 38 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: a real difference, because we've already seen it. And that's 39 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 2: why those six things I just mentioned form the basis 40 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: of our action plan. 41 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Is it the kid, Is it the kid's family, Is 42 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: it the kid's school, is it the neighborhood, is the 43 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: decile system or is it all of it? 44 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: I've been very clear about the drivers of inequality, and 45 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: it is poverty in this country. Your means determine your destiny. 46 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: It is almost the one single factor that is the 47 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: cause of that yawning gap, which is why when you 48 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: turn up to school, we need to cloak you in 49 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 2: that protective factor that is education, and that it doesn't 50 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 2: matter where you go, which school you go to, it's consistent, 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 2: a consistent, clear, knowledge rich year by year curriculum that's 52 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: comparable with the rest of the world. That the teaching 53 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 2: practice like structured literacy, structured maths is the same everywhere 54 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: you go. That we assess you everywhere you go to 55 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: measure your progress from year zero right up to year thirteen, 56 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 2: which we don't currently do, which we're about to do 57 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: with our twice yearly consistent testing that we're bringing in. 58 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: Those are the things that will change the dial. And 59 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: the last six years, the only thing we had, the 60 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: only thing we had to measure progress across see a 61 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: zero to zero to ten was National Standards. Now, whether 62 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: you agree with it or not, and it had some problems, 63 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 2: it was the only thing. Labor took it away when 64 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: they came into office, and what did they replace it 65 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: with Mike nothing correct, absolutely nothing. And this report says 66 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: we'll need to have that clear, consistent picture across the 67 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: country so we can make. 68 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: Changes while I've got you put your immigration hat on. 69 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: The overturning of the ban on partners. Why do we 70 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: ban partners? This never made any sense to me. If 71 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: you want to come to the country, sure you want 72 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: to bring your partner, don't you? Otherwise why would you 73 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: come to the country. 74 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: Look again, it sort of labors good intentions but not 75 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: really understanding the reality. I can broadly see what they 76 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: were trying to do. They were trying to say, well, actually, 77 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: we want to make sure when you come here that 78 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: you know you are protected and that you are earning 79 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: a good amount of money. But the flip side was 80 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 2: that people just weren't able to do that. They were 81 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: coming in the country partners, they weren't able to earn 82 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: the median wage, they weren't able to work for an 83 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: accredit of work, and so they sat here on a 84 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 2: visit of visa. And we know that because we had 85 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: an massive number of increased number of visit of easas 86 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: over the last couple of years, and that put enormous 87 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: pressure on families with only one income. And if you 88 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: want people to assimilate into society and make friends and 89 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: take that pressure off families, you have to allow them 90 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: to work. So bringing back open work rights to partners 91 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: so they can move between jobs work for anyone they 92 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: liked was just a no brainer makes sense. 93 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: Put on a third hat your survivors in care. Are 94 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: you reading the newsroom stuff as in the newsroom website stuff. Yes, 95 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: they're calling it a cover up, is it? 96 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: I think that the Royal Commission report made it very 97 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 2: clear that the state for many decades took great steps 98 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: to not provide documents, to obsscate, to cover up, to 99 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 2: try and slow things down when things were taken to court. 100 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: I mean, that's clear in the report. It's there in 101 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: black and white, and there are people that have apologized 102 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: for that. So the Psilositor General has apologized, and she's 103 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: also talked to me about the failings of Crown law 104 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: and the failings of the state, and there will be 105 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: more apologies to come. 106 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: And yet the irony is the article suggests that she 107 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: needs to go as in the Solicitor General. Would you 108 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: argue she was merely doing her job as the representative 109 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: of the government and was doing it particularly well, despite 110 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: the fact that morally you may look at that and go, well, 111 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: the lawyer, the lawyer. 112 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 2: Well. She has made comments that Crown Law did not 113 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: meet expectations, they did not have a survivor focus, and 114 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 2: that they did not meet the expectations of the public. 115 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: But any questions about her role are for Minister Collins. 116 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: All right, appreciate time very much. Erica Stamford on a 117 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff, so it was lucky we had 118 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: her on this morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, 119 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: listen live to news talks they'd be from six am weekdays, 120 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.