1 00:00:09,133 --> 00:00:12,733 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,813 --> 00:00:17,693 Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio. Yet 3 00:00:17,853 --> 00:00:22,093 Speaker 1: inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with 4 00:00:22,293 --> 00:00:24,613 Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered by News Talks EDB. 5 00:00:24,933 --> 00:00:28,493 Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Access Solutions, elevating you 6 00:00:28,693 --> 00:00:32,173 Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level Elligance Smith, News 7 00:00:32,173 --> 00:00:35,813 Speaker 2: Talks Lead Rugby commentator with me as always Liam Napier 8 00:00:36,533 --> 00:00:40,013 Speaker 2: from The New Zealand Hero, Chief sports correspondent rugby writer. 9 00:00:40,413 --> 00:00:43,173 Speaker 2: Liam will recording this on Sunday afternoon. We've done us 10 00:00:43,173 --> 00:00:45,253 Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. Just something a bit different 11 00:00:45,973 --> 00:00:48,213 Speaker 2: Black fans fans, I mean, we won't have anything elsis 12 00:00:48,213 --> 00:00:50,133 Speaker 2: of the result, but it's gone like. 13 00:00:50,093 --> 00:00:52,453 Speaker 3: The previous twenty six tests. 14 00:00:53,133 --> 00:00:56,213 Speaker 2: The Black fans hopefully have gone to twenty seven this afternoon, 15 00:00:56,213 --> 00:00:58,893 Speaker 2: but we'll have more on that next week. Let's review though, 16 00:00:58,933 --> 00:01:03,813 Speaker 2: the All Blacks when over England twenty four seventeen and 17 00:01:04,133 --> 00:01:07,613 Speaker 2: similar last week to last week, Liam, the All Blacks 18 00:01:08,653 --> 00:01:11,973 Speaker 2: having to dig deep and find a way out of 19 00:01:12,453 --> 00:01:16,453 Speaker 2: the arm wrestle against the English again, I was. 20 00:01:16,453 --> 00:01:17,573 Speaker 3: Gonna say didn't have their own way. 21 00:01:17,653 --> 00:01:20,053 Speaker 2: They barely had anything go their way, really, they couldn't 22 00:01:20,053 --> 00:01:24,693 Speaker 2: implement their game plan once again. But somehow, after two tests, 23 00:01:24,733 --> 00:01:28,733 Speaker 2: this All Blacks group, this coaching staff, this team is unbeaten. 24 00:01:28,773 --> 00:01:31,173 Speaker 3: What did you make of the second test at Eden Park. 25 00:01:31,893 --> 00:01:35,373 Speaker 4: Well, here we are on Sunday, It's God's Day and 26 00:01:35,853 --> 00:01:39,173 Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks will be worshiping Boden Barrats 27 00:01:40,253 --> 00:01:44,093 Speaker 4: for another great escape, because as you say, it was 28 00:01:44,333 --> 00:01:47,173 Speaker 4: another really torrid night for the All Blacks and it 29 00:01:47,253 --> 00:01:50,293 Speaker 4: was a very familiar script in that the All Blacks 30 00:01:50,333 --> 00:01:53,773 Speaker 4: started quite well. They had some brilliant breakout moments on 31 00:01:53,813 --> 00:01:57,653 Speaker 4: the counter attack that they didn't finish. Execution was off 32 00:01:57,693 --> 00:02:01,893 Speaker 4: again there and they struggled in similar areas that the 33 00:02:01,973 --> 00:02:04,493 Speaker 4: line out was an abomination in the first half. They 34 00:02:04,493 --> 00:02:07,013 Speaker 4: did make some adjustments there, but in the first half 35 00:02:07,053 --> 00:02:10,133 Speaker 4: alone they lost five three of their throw and two 36 00:02:10,853 --> 00:02:14,853 Speaker 4: complete fumbles. Maratoji had a field day across the field 37 00:02:14,973 --> 00:02:18,013 Speaker 4: for sixty minutes. Really troubled them at the line out. 38 00:02:18,013 --> 00:02:23,053 Speaker 4: The breakdown and restarts just a complete menace. The All 39 00:02:23,053 --> 00:02:26,773 Speaker 4: Blacks struggled ball carrying wires, which we'll go into a 40 00:02:26,773 --> 00:02:29,693 Speaker 4: bit deeper later. But to really get over that vantage 41 00:02:29,733 --> 00:02:33,573 Speaker 4: line to build phases, they got pinned in their half 42 00:02:33,693 --> 00:02:36,813 Speaker 4: England's kicking game again, they struggled to get out. England 43 00:02:36,893 --> 00:02:40,093 Speaker 4: really just couldn't find that killer punch and they had 44 00:02:40,133 --> 00:02:42,893 Speaker 4: so many opportunities that they had the weight of possession 45 00:02:42,933 --> 00:02:45,853 Speaker 4: of territory and they couldn't quite put the All Blacks away. 46 00:02:46,293 --> 00:02:49,293 Speaker 4: And then the All Blacks bench again was a telling 47 00:02:49,333 --> 00:02:52,893 Speaker 4: factor in coming over the top of England. But it 48 00:02:52,933 --> 00:02:56,453 Speaker 4: was another very near thing for Scott robertson Scott Robinson's 49 00:02:56,453 --> 00:02:56,893 Speaker 4: All Blacks. 50 00:02:56,973 --> 00:02:59,053 Speaker 2: Let's talk about the line out first and foremost. As 51 00:02:59,093 --> 00:03:01,853 Speaker 2: you mentioned, the Marotoji had a field day with the 52 00:03:01,893 --> 00:03:03,493 Speaker 2: All Blacks line out. They couldn't get it right in 53 00:03:03,533 --> 00:03:06,053 Speaker 2: the first half, although I think in the second they 54 00:03:06,093 --> 00:03:08,613 Speaker 2: didn't lose one on their own throw in their managed 55 00:03:08,653 --> 00:03:12,413 Speaker 2: to get a couple of steals of English bullets sort of. 56 00:03:12,453 --> 00:03:15,413 Speaker 2: The ship was righted a bit towards the end of 57 00:03:15,453 --> 00:03:17,533 Speaker 2: the game, but we saw it last week indeed, and 58 00:03:17,573 --> 00:03:19,893 Speaker 2: they lost three lineouts on their own throw as well. 59 00:03:20,733 --> 00:03:23,493 Speaker 2: It just seems really really clunky. Now they don't have 60 00:03:23,533 --> 00:03:25,933 Speaker 2: a specialist line out coach or a set piece coach 61 00:03:25,933 --> 00:03:27,933 Speaker 2: in the environment, but they have a throwing coach. 62 00:03:28,533 --> 00:03:31,453 Speaker 3: Exactly Cory Flynn, and it also had. 63 00:03:31,333 --> 00:03:34,533 Speaker 2: Fools under Jason Ryan's remits in terms of the set 64 00:03:34,533 --> 00:03:38,573 Speaker 2: piece as well. So Scott Barrett's All Black captain was 65 00:03:38,613 --> 00:03:40,933 Speaker 2: asked about it in the postmatch media conference and sort 66 00:03:40,933 --> 00:03:44,373 Speaker 2: of said there was a couple of reasons why around it, 67 00:03:44,453 --> 00:03:47,853 Speaker 2: but not really clear exactly the reasons why. But a 68 00:03:47,893 --> 00:03:50,133 Speaker 2: couple of weeks in a row that strength of the 69 00:03:50,173 --> 00:03:54,133 Speaker 2: All Blacks has been really clunky and it's you know, 70 00:03:54,333 --> 00:03:59,133 Speaker 2: they had ample ball position last night. If they could 71 00:03:59,173 --> 00:04:00,893 Speaker 2: get the line out right, they could have built an attack, 72 00:04:00,933 --> 00:04:02,533 Speaker 2: but they just fumbled it on the line out and 73 00:04:02,573 --> 00:04:04,093 Speaker 2: then put themselves back under pressure. 74 00:04:04,893 --> 00:04:08,933 Speaker 4: I think, first and foremost, this is a fundamental area 75 00:04:09,053 --> 00:04:11,653 Speaker 4: of the game. You have to get right because set 76 00:04:11,693 --> 00:04:15,813 Speaker 4: piece is so crucial to launching your attack, your strike 77 00:04:15,933 --> 00:04:19,413 Speaker 4: moves so in the modern game, not necessarily just the 78 00:04:19,453 --> 00:04:21,973 Speaker 4: modern game, but it's a real pillar to get right, 79 00:04:22,173 --> 00:04:25,213 Speaker 4: and if you don't, you're crippled at the knees. So 80 00:04:25,413 --> 00:04:28,893 Speaker 4: they'll bleck scrum. Extremely dominant in both tests, but their 81 00:04:28,893 --> 00:04:33,933 Speaker 4: line out kneecapped them. And it is a major consumer 82 00:04:33,893 --> 00:04:38,133 Speaker 4: because you know, in the post rodiootelic and I'm going 83 00:04:38,213 --> 00:04:40,533 Speaker 4: to say a lot more so Sam Whitelock because he 84 00:04:40,733 --> 00:04:43,493 Speaker 4: is the line out guru, he was the lineout caller. 85 00:04:43,613 --> 00:04:47,893 Speaker 4: He did so much study on opposition lineouts such and 86 00:04:48,213 --> 00:04:51,533 Speaker 4: never has Sam Whitelock's absence been more telling than in 87 00:04:51,613 --> 00:04:56,893 Speaker 4: these two tests. And Scott Barrett talked about miss miscommunication 88 00:04:57,133 --> 00:05:00,733 Speaker 4: and caught and calling being two issues on the night, 89 00:05:00,973 --> 00:05:03,333 Speaker 4: and that was very evident in one throw where Cody 90 00:05:03,373 --> 00:05:06,453 Speaker 4: Taylor They'll Blecks, threw their line out jumper up, he 91 00:05:06,573 --> 00:05:09,493 Speaker 4: came down and Cody Taylor threw the ball straight tomorra 92 00:05:09,613 --> 00:05:13,373 Speaker 4: a ToJ who hadn't left the ground. That's just basic 93 00:05:13,453 --> 00:05:16,693 Speaker 4: stuff that should not be happening at All Black level 94 00:05:16,853 --> 00:05:20,533 Speaker 4: and it's something that they need to amend. They started 95 00:05:20,573 --> 00:05:23,453 Speaker 4: off throwing to Ardie Severe short at the front of 96 00:05:23,493 --> 00:05:26,653 Speaker 4: the line out. They tried short lineouts and nothing really worked. 97 00:05:26,653 --> 00:05:28,733 Speaker 4: That They did amend it to a degree in the 98 00:05:28,733 --> 00:05:31,133 Speaker 4: second half, and as you mentioned, I think Patrick Tupelotu 99 00:05:31,293 --> 00:05:34,133 Speaker 4: and Ardie Severe got some crucial steals in the second half. 100 00:05:34,573 --> 00:05:36,653 Speaker 4: That's great, but you got to win your own ball. 101 00:05:36,853 --> 00:05:39,613 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that game could have been different if the 102 00:05:39,613 --> 00:05:41,893 Speaker 2: All Blacks get their own ball. A couple of times 103 00:05:41,973 --> 00:05:43,733 Speaker 2: that first half. They were in the right position of 104 00:05:43,733 --> 00:05:46,813 Speaker 2: the field. They could have put some pressure on England 105 00:05:47,493 --> 00:05:49,853 Speaker 2: and attack that way. They didn't, and that's I think 106 00:05:49,893 --> 00:05:52,253 Speaker 2: perhaps the story of the first couple of tests, at 107 00:05:52,293 --> 00:05:54,373 Speaker 2: least for me, is that the All Blacks have had 108 00:05:54,413 --> 00:05:58,413 Speaker 2: some opportunities, they haven't had the killer instincts. They've obviously 109 00:05:58,493 --> 00:06:01,053 Speaker 2: scored a couple of tries in each test, but they 110 00:06:01,093 --> 00:06:04,093 Speaker 2: have lacked that killer instinct. I think obviously the lineout 111 00:06:04,173 --> 00:06:07,653 Speaker 2: last night where they fumbled that and weren't quite ruthless enough. 112 00:06:07,733 --> 00:06:11,573 Speaker 2: There there was the back and forth try with Petafetta 113 00:06:11,773 --> 00:06:15,813 Speaker 2: and Mark Taliah and tale just through it perhaps in 114 00:06:15,853 --> 00:06:19,733 Speaker 2: your throat and taed higher to evade the Marcus Smith 115 00:06:19,773 --> 00:06:22,453 Speaker 2: coming through and tacking it in the first spell Scoore. 116 00:06:22,493 --> 00:06:25,333 Speaker 2: That game opens up a little bit similar story in 117 00:06:25,453 --> 00:06:28,293 Speaker 2: danneed in the previous week. There are opportunities there for 118 00:06:28,333 --> 00:06:32,573 Speaker 2: the All Blacks, but they're just lacking the ability to 119 00:06:32,613 --> 00:06:33,293 Speaker 2: ice some of. 120 00:06:33,253 --> 00:06:35,013 Speaker 3: Those things at the moment they are. 121 00:06:35,053 --> 00:06:40,933 Speaker 4: In that Pedifeta Taliah instance, It's very easy to say 122 00:06:40,973 --> 00:06:44,133 Speaker 4: on reflection or from the coaching or you know, press 123 00:06:44,173 --> 00:06:48,853 Speaker 4: box that had Petifetter actually gone inside he had some 124 00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:52,493 Speaker 4: unmarked support runners. And there was another instance where I 125 00:06:52,493 --> 00:06:56,413 Speaker 4: think Damien McKenzie and Jordi Barrett a breakout and it 126 00:06:56,493 --> 00:06:58,693 Speaker 4: finished with Cody Taylor throwing a bit of a wild 127 00:06:58,773 --> 00:07:00,053 Speaker 4: offload that was unnecessary. 128 00:07:00,173 --> 00:07:02,253 Speaker 3: Yeah, Cody tug on between two if you just go to. 129 00:07:02,253 --> 00:07:03,133 Speaker 5: Ground and reset. 130 00:07:03,253 --> 00:07:08,333 Speaker 4: So those just those patients and execution can be really 131 00:07:08,333 --> 00:07:11,933 Speaker 4: costly because at this level there's only a couple of 132 00:07:11,933 --> 00:07:15,093 Speaker 4: moments that you get to take to get right, and 133 00:07:15,533 --> 00:07:18,133 Speaker 4: the All Blacks aren't doing that, and then you allow 134 00:07:18,173 --> 00:07:20,133 Speaker 4: the opposition there too, and that there is going to 135 00:07:20,133 --> 00:07:21,933 Speaker 4: be swings in momentum. 136 00:07:21,973 --> 00:07:23,133 Speaker 5: Look, I think you know we. 137 00:07:23,093 --> 00:07:26,253 Speaker 4: Have focused on some negatives, so it's only right that 138 00:07:26,293 --> 00:07:30,093 Speaker 4: we talk about some positives. The scrum extremely dominant, and 139 00:07:31,133 --> 00:07:34,653 Speaker 4: that is rare for an English team. You know, they 140 00:07:34,653 --> 00:07:36,973 Speaker 4: are traditionally very strong at set peace and they were 141 00:07:37,053 --> 00:07:40,573 Speaker 4: at lineout and restarts. But the All Blacks crush their 142 00:07:40,573 --> 00:07:42,613 Speaker 4: scrum in derned and there's a lot of talk about 143 00:07:42,733 --> 00:07:46,733 Speaker 4: Ethan the group's technical issues. I think Brian Moore and 144 00:07:46,773 --> 00:07:49,333 Speaker 4: the Telegraph and made a big deal of it, and 145 00:07:49,493 --> 00:07:52,333 Speaker 4: the All Blacks still stuffed them. So that is a 146 00:07:52,373 --> 00:07:55,373 Speaker 4: weapon that the All Blacks can build on and the 147 00:07:55,493 --> 00:07:57,653 Speaker 4: key thing for them is it is maintained when their 148 00:07:57,693 --> 00:08:01,493 Speaker 4: bench come on. Fletcher Newle tight hair prop led a 149 00:08:01,573 --> 00:08:04,453 Speaker 4: big scrum penalty that allowed the All Blacks to push 150 00:08:04,493 --> 00:08:07,933 Speaker 4: out further. I think defensively the All Blacks need to 151 00:08:07,933 --> 00:08:10,373 Speaker 4: get better at coming off the line and being a 152 00:08:10,413 --> 00:08:13,373 Speaker 4: bit more aggressive and dominant with their carries. But they 153 00:08:13,373 --> 00:08:16,533 Speaker 4: did absorb a lot of England pressure, a lot of 154 00:08:16,573 --> 00:08:20,453 Speaker 4: England possession and not allow them to score Boden Barrett, 155 00:08:20,453 --> 00:08:23,573 Speaker 4: who will talk about some more holding up Jamie and 156 00:08:23,573 --> 00:08:26,133 Speaker 4: George at the end, so some real desperation and care 157 00:08:26,533 --> 00:08:30,333 Speaker 4: in that regard. But yeah, I think on the whole 158 00:08:30,573 --> 00:08:34,373 Speaker 4: there are a lot more improvements than positives when you 159 00:08:34,413 --> 00:08:35,773 Speaker 4: reflect across those two tests. 160 00:08:35,893 --> 00:08:38,453 Speaker 2: Yeah, that scrum is a weapon, and it was even 161 00:08:38,493 --> 00:08:40,933 Speaker 2: more so. I think as you pointed out that there 162 00:08:41,013 --> 00:08:45,213 Speaker 2: been some issues raised by Brian Moore and others in 163 00:08:45,253 --> 00:08:48,693 Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere around the scrummaging technique of Ethan de Greut, 164 00:08:48,773 --> 00:08:50,613 Speaker 2: and for that to come out during the week and 165 00:08:50,653 --> 00:08:54,333 Speaker 2: then still to get those rewards at scrum time I 166 00:08:54,373 --> 00:08:57,373 Speaker 2: think will be a pretty happy feeling in terms of 167 00:08:57,573 --> 00:08:59,333 Speaker 2: the front row and then what they're able to do 168 00:08:59,893 --> 00:09:02,813 Speaker 2: for the All Blacks, and Scott Robinson said as much 169 00:09:02,813 --> 00:09:05,013 Speaker 2: in the postmatch media conference. He's like, well, we took 170 00:09:05,053 --> 00:09:07,253 Speaker 2: notice of it and still got the penalties out of it, 171 00:09:07,333 --> 00:09:10,373 Speaker 2: so that's a really good sign for Ethan de Groot. 172 00:09:12,413 --> 00:09:15,973 Speaker 2: I think the defense wise is a positive, although last 173 00:09:16,053 --> 00:09:22,533 Speaker 2: night they were also out done twice by crossfield kicks. 174 00:09:21,453 --> 00:09:23,053 Speaker 3: And England managed to get them there. 175 00:09:23,093 --> 00:09:28,853 Speaker 2: That the scramble or the defensive reset offer high kickers 176 00:09:28,893 --> 00:09:31,093 Speaker 2: probably something they need to work on. It just feels 177 00:09:31,133 --> 00:09:33,893 Speaker 2: like they didn't read it right on either occasion and 178 00:09:33,893 --> 00:09:37,853 Speaker 2: that cost them two tries in the end. But defensively wise, 179 00:09:38,653 --> 00:09:40,693 Speaker 2: they as you said, absorbed a lot of preciure. There 180 00:09:40,813 --> 00:09:42,853 Speaker 2: was ten to fifteen minutes in that first spell where 181 00:09:42,893 --> 00:09:46,413 Speaker 2: they had to felt like twenty twenty five almost minutes 182 00:09:46,413 --> 00:09:49,093 Speaker 2: in the second spell where they were just camped down 183 00:09:49,133 --> 00:09:52,693 Speaker 2: their own ends of Eden Park and couldn't get out 184 00:09:52,693 --> 00:09:56,173 Speaker 2: of there for love nor money, and again England would reset, 185 00:09:56,253 --> 00:09:59,413 Speaker 2: refire and the All Blacks would defend. So that's a 186 00:09:59,453 --> 00:10:01,413 Speaker 2: positive in some ways, but you can't be doing every 187 00:10:01,413 --> 00:10:05,933 Speaker 2: test like that, and I think through two tests England 188 00:10:05,973 --> 00:10:08,093 Speaker 2: haven't allowed them to necessarily. But the All Blacks we 189 00:10:08,133 --> 00:10:11,133 Speaker 2: have I've seen exactly what this game plan under Scott 190 00:10:11,173 --> 00:10:12,613 Speaker 2: Robertson and co. Is actually going to be. 191 00:10:13,493 --> 00:10:16,373 Speaker 4: No, it's not evident, is it. And I think the 192 00:10:16,773 --> 00:10:18,573 Speaker 4: coming back to the lineout when you're giving up that 193 00:10:18,693 --> 00:10:21,653 Speaker 4: set piece platform and giving their possession so easily back 194 00:10:21,693 --> 00:10:24,893 Speaker 4: to the opposition that forces you to defend for long periods, 195 00:10:24,893 --> 00:10:28,293 Speaker 4: and England will rue a couple of instances. I think 196 00:10:28,293 --> 00:10:31,973 Speaker 4: it was Oli Lawrence twice dropped the ball in England's 197 00:10:32,333 --> 00:10:34,533 Speaker 4: in the All Blacks twenty two under pressure I think 198 00:10:34,573 --> 00:10:39,133 Speaker 4: from Rikowane on defense. So you know, there were countless 199 00:10:39,133 --> 00:10:42,533 Speaker 4: opportunities that England had to strike and they did only 200 00:10:42,613 --> 00:10:45,733 Speaker 4: really through those crossfield kicks. I'm going to throw something 201 00:10:45,773 --> 00:10:48,413 Speaker 4: else that you hear. So it seems very evident to 202 00:10:48,453 --> 00:10:50,493 Speaker 4: me that the All Blacks four pack, I don't know 203 00:10:50,533 --> 00:10:53,413 Speaker 4: if they're undersized. I don't think that's accurate necessarily, but 204 00:10:53,493 --> 00:10:57,973 Speaker 4: they are lacking big, damaging, destructive ball carriers. They're not 205 00:10:58,013 --> 00:11:00,813 Speaker 4: getting over the game line enough. And when you look 206 00:11:00,853 --> 00:11:04,173 Speaker 4: at that pack there should be you know those players there. 207 00:11:04,573 --> 00:11:07,093 Speaker 4: Patrick Twoplot is a big man, some a penny female 208 00:11:07,173 --> 00:11:11,893 Speaker 4: I would argue, has not carried his enforcer status from 209 00:11:12,053 --> 00:11:15,093 Speaker 4: Super Rugby through to the Test arena. Artie Severe had 210 00:11:15,093 --> 00:11:18,013 Speaker 4: one strong charge off a penalty that led to Mark 211 00:11:18,053 --> 00:11:22,013 Speaker 4: t Lea's opening try, but that was a rarity. So 212 00:11:23,093 --> 00:11:27,813 Speaker 4: why are they all blacks not finding these ball carriers 213 00:11:28,013 --> 00:11:30,493 Speaker 4: and where do they go to to get them? 214 00:11:30,573 --> 00:11:32,733 Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a very interesting question, and I 215 00:11:32,813 --> 00:11:36,533 Speaker 2: don't know that they necessarily exist. And I don't know 216 00:11:36,573 --> 00:11:39,453 Speaker 2: whether it's the New Zealand just in general the body 217 00:11:39,493 --> 00:11:42,173 Speaker 2: size of humans that New Zealander is produced, or whether 218 00:11:42,413 --> 00:11:44,533 Speaker 2: they're not playing rugby. But you look at Super Rugby, 219 00:11:44,613 --> 00:11:47,053 Speaker 2: it's not like these players are being missed at Super 220 00:11:47,093 --> 00:11:49,773 Speaker 2: Rugby level and aren't being elevated to all Blacks level. 221 00:11:52,013 --> 00:11:53,533 Speaker 3: I don't know whether it's a size issue. 222 00:11:54,093 --> 00:11:57,053 Speaker 2: From what I hear, a lot of tall players are 223 00:11:57,093 --> 00:11:59,893 Speaker 2: now going down the basketball route and not playing as 224 00:11:59,973 --> 00:12:02,053 Speaker 2: much rugby. So it's a fundamental how do you get 225 00:12:02,053 --> 00:12:04,773 Speaker 2: these players that are big bodies into rugby in the 226 00:12:04,813 --> 00:12:07,213 Speaker 2: first place, not at alone get them to all blacks level. 227 00:12:07,253 --> 00:12:09,733 Speaker 2: So that's what they're singing, and I think that's why 228 00:12:09,733 --> 00:12:11,813 Speaker 2: they put so much resource into Josh Lord, who we 229 00:12:11,893 --> 00:12:14,613 Speaker 2: really haven't seen a lot of even at Super Rugby level, 230 00:12:15,133 --> 00:12:17,133 Speaker 2: but they know that he is that big frame more 231 00:12:17,133 --> 00:12:20,333 Speaker 2: than two meters tool that if they can get him 232 00:12:20,373 --> 00:12:22,453 Speaker 2: up to All Black speed, then he is going to 233 00:12:22,453 --> 00:12:24,653 Speaker 2: be the kind of body that they want to be imposing, 234 00:12:24,733 --> 00:12:27,653 Speaker 2: be that threat. Fabian Horn not eligible yet for the 235 00:12:27,653 --> 00:12:30,693 Speaker 2: All Blacks, but he looks like a really big frame 236 00:12:30,733 --> 00:12:32,373 Speaker 2: that the All Blacks could use at test level. But 237 00:12:32,413 --> 00:12:35,573 Speaker 2: he's still what just over a year away from being eligible. 238 00:12:35,933 --> 00:12:38,053 Speaker 2: So that's the kind of body size they're looking at 239 00:12:39,253 --> 00:12:41,653 Speaker 2: when it comes to the loose Fore trio. Sampini Fina 240 00:12:41,773 --> 00:12:43,853 Speaker 2: has that size, but I don't think we've seen a 241 00:12:43,893 --> 00:12:45,693 Speaker 2: couple of great tests from him. It looks like a 242 00:12:45,693 --> 00:12:49,973 Speaker 2: big steep up from Super rugby to Test rugby for him. 243 00:12:50,013 --> 00:12:51,733 Speaker 2: We're talking about some changes later on, but I would 244 00:12:51,733 --> 00:12:54,173 Speaker 2: I'd really like to see the All Blacks put Artie 245 00:12:54,213 --> 00:12:57,733 Speaker 2: Savia back to open side flank and try Wallace to Titi. 246 00:12:59,013 --> 00:12:59,733 Speaker 3: At number eight. 247 00:13:00,013 --> 00:13:03,213 Speaker 2: And you may maybe you can play female at blindside 248 00:13:03,213 --> 00:13:04,893 Speaker 2: still or you go someone like a black Adder or 249 00:13:04,933 --> 00:13:09,333 Speaker 2: maybe even Jacobson. But if you have Ardisa Via Ander 250 00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:12,293 Speaker 2: Wallace Satiti and there that gives you two strong carriers 251 00:13:12,653 --> 00:13:15,373 Speaker 2: in the loose Ford trio, but also two defensive bodies 252 00:13:15,573 --> 00:13:19,133 Speaker 2: as well. Instantly feels it, instantly feels more powerful. You're 253 00:13:19,173 --> 00:13:22,333 Speaker 2: not you're changing things up. And Don Papalti, I don't 254 00:13:22,333 --> 00:13:23,973 Speaker 2: think he's play badly in these couple of teats, but 255 00:13:24,333 --> 00:13:28,773 Speaker 2: I just don't think he's got that imposing prisons that 256 00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:31,693 Speaker 2: Tess Rugby now demands. You. Look at those English players, 257 00:13:31,733 --> 00:13:34,933 Speaker 2: marwit Toji, George Martin in the second row, the loose 258 00:13:35,013 --> 00:13:38,213 Speaker 2: Ford trio. They are big bodies and they have bulk 259 00:13:38,213 --> 00:13:40,013 Speaker 2: about them. When I think the All Blacks that the 260 00:13:40,133 --> 00:13:42,933 Speaker 2: frames are just a little bit slighter having done the 261 00:13:43,013 --> 00:13:45,693 Speaker 2: kg versus kg and how they stack up, but it 262 00:13:45,773 --> 00:13:48,093 Speaker 2: just feels there's a little bit of size lacking from 263 00:13:48,093 --> 00:13:48,813 Speaker 2: the All Blacks. 264 00:13:49,253 --> 00:13:50,973 Speaker 4: I think there's a real debate to be had about 265 00:13:51,013 --> 00:13:53,813 Speaker 4: the composition of the All Blacks loose forwards. And I 266 00:13:53,813 --> 00:13:57,573 Speaker 4: agree that Scott Robinson sort of as you mentioned, we're 267 00:13:57,573 --> 00:13:59,573 Speaker 4: going to talk about changes later, but he's flagged that 268 00:14:00,213 --> 00:14:03,613 Speaker 4: the remaining squad Rockies will likely get a chance against 269 00:14:03,613 --> 00:14:06,453 Speaker 4: Fiji in this final July Test. And Wallace a Titi 270 00:14:06,613 --> 00:14:10,133 Speaker 4: is the guy that we need to see because he 271 00:14:10,413 --> 00:14:11,653 Speaker 4: is a point of difference. 272 00:14:11,733 --> 00:14:12,813 Speaker 5: He is a big body. 273 00:14:12,933 --> 00:14:16,213 Speaker 4: He is a destructive ball carrier and he brings so 274 00:14:16,373 --> 00:14:18,893 Speaker 4: much more size to the back of the scrum and 275 00:14:19,613 --> 00:14:23,453 Speaker 4: almost completely changes the dynamic of the potential loose forward trio. 276 00:14:24,053 --> 00:14:27,533 Speaker 4: Ethan Blackett is another interesting proposition. What's his best position 277 00:14:27,693 --> 00:14:30,613 Speaker 4: through the All Black Sam at open side or blindside? 278 00:14:31,253 --> 00:14:33,773 Speaker 4: He's going to come into the mix next week. He's 279 00:14:33,773 --> 00:14:36,493 Speaker 4: not necessarily a huge body, but he is very combative 280 00:14:36,533 --> 00:14:38,053 Speaker 4: in the way he plays the game. 281 00:14:38,173 --> 00:14:39,093 Speaker 5: So I with you. 282 00:14:39,133 --> 00:14:43,693 Speaker 4: I'd love to see Satiti and Ardie play together. Sam 283 00:14:43,773 --> 00:14:48,053 Speaker 4: Kaines on the fringe. He made his return in Toto 284 00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:52,253 Speaker 4: on Club Rugby, ironically playing at blindsides because there was 285 00:14:52,293 --> 00:14:56,973 Speaker 4: a very compelling hotdophenoal Carpety open side that he couldn't 286 00:14:56,973 --> 00:15:00,013 Speaker 4: push out of the starting lineup. But that's one aspect 287 00:15:00,013 --> 00:15:03,053 Speaker 4: the All Black loose Ford's trio which needs a look, 288 00:15:03,093 --> 00:15:06,933 Speaker 4: potentially needs a rethink. I also think they're missing Somasoni Takiajo, 289 00:15:07,373 --> 00:15:10,373 Speaker 4: who didn't necessarily have the best Super Rugby season, came 290 00:15:10,413 --> 00:15:12,453 Speaker 4: into some form towards the back end of the year, 291 00:15:12,893 --> 00:15:16,933 Speaker 4: but he is another big body, noted ball carrying presence, 292 00:15:17,013 --> 00:15:21,133 Speaker 4: so his presence I think is also being missed, but 293 00:15:22,053 --> 00:15:25,213 Speaker 4: that that whole ball carrying aspect is a big factor 294 00:15:25,613 --> 00:15:27,533 Speaker 4: for why the All Blacks aren't getting on the front 295 00:15:27,573 --> 00:15:30,373 Speaker 4: foot and why they're struggling to get around the rush defense. 296 00:15:30,453 --> 00:15:32,533 Speaker 4: It's so much easier if you have more time and 297 00:15:32,573 --> 00:15:33,893 Speaker 4: space if you're going forward. 298 00:15:34,173 --> 00:15:37,013 Speaker 2: A couple of things still from last night. Cortez Ratama 299 00:15:37,093 --> 00:15:39,533 Speaker 2: comes off the bench becomes All Black number one two 300 00:15:39,653 --> 00:15:43,213 Speaker 2: hundred and fourteen, replacing Findlay Christie who went off for 301 00:15:43,253 --> 00:15:43,853 Speaker 2: an Hia. 302 00:15:43,973 --> 00:15:45,293 Speaker 3: I thought, very tidy. 303 00:15:45,333 --> 00:15:46,733 Speaker 2: What was it twenty eight minutes in the end that 304 00:15:46,773 --> 00:15:51,373 Speaker 2: Cortez Ratama I got on debut instantly and combined with 305 00:15:51,453 --> 00:15:55,853 Speaker 2: Bowden Barrett just ring those the attack a little bit 306 00:15:55,973 --> 00:16:00,813 Speaker 2: and he was quicker passing wires, just added some some 307 00:16:00,893 --> 00:16:02,733 Speaker 2: speed to things that it felt like the All Blacks 308 00:16:02,773 --> 00:16:05,093 Speaker 2: were going very much through the motions and sometimes you 309 00:16:05,093 --> 00:16:07,453 Speaker 2: need that spark off the bench and Cortez Ratama I 310 00:16:07,493 --> 00:16:09,573 Speaker 2: think could be very very happy with his test table. 311 00:16:10,293 --> 00:16:12,173 Speaker 5: Well, big time. He was exceptional. 312 00:16:12,213 --> 00:16:15,213 Speaker 4: He came on and his first box kick to touch 313 00:16:15,373 --> 00:16:18,213 Speaker 4: was very shaky, it went out, but that allowed him 314 00:16:18,253 --> 00:16:22,933 Speaker 4: to settle and he heard him postmatch talking and he said, 315 00:16:23,013 --> 00:16:26,893 Speaker 4: you know, anxiety and nerves were bubbling within and but 316 00:16:27,173 --> 00:16:29,453 Speaker 4: he definitely grew into the game and you're right his 317 00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:33,093 Speaker 4: speed to the base, his delivery was very evident and 318 00:16:33,133 --> 00:16:36,293 Speaker 4: a significant lift so him and Bowden in terms of 319 00:16:36,333 --> 00:16:40,053 Speaker 4: the speed, the decisiveness, the pace that the All Blacks 320 00:16:40,053 --> 00:16:43,013 Speaker 4: were able to inject and that sort of final quarter 321 00:16:43,373 --> 00:16:45,133 Speaker 4: was really telling. It won them in the game. And 322 00:16:46,013 --> 00:16:50,293 Speaker 4: when you compare Cortez to Finlay Christie, Christy did some 323 00:16:50,453 --> 00:16:53,213 Speaker 4: very good things on defense. He pinned Ben Earle off 324 00:16:53,253 --> 00:16:55,813 Speaker 4: the back of a scrum on one occasion, and his 325 00:16:55,893 --> 00:16:58,133 Speaker 4: first tackle the game in combination I think it was 326 00:16:58,173 --> 00:17:00,693 Speaker 4: with Cody Taylor lifted up one of the English ball 327 00:17:00,733 --> 00:17:04,293 Speaker 4: carriers and drove them back. So defensively, Finlay Christy is 328 00:17:04,293 --> 00:17:06,933 Speaker 4: the best defensive half back in New Zealand. But the 329 00:17:06,973 --> 00:17:09,173 Speaker 4: way the All Blacks want to play with pace and 330 00:17:09,253 --> 00:17:13,373 Speaker 4: tempo and speed from the base, get in, get out, 331 00:17:13,413 --> 00:17:17,973 Speaker 4: get the opposition, defense back pedaling. Cortez Ratima is that 332 00:17:18,013 --> 00:17:22,453 Speaker 4: guy and he needs to start. He infinitely fits that 333 00:17:22,573 --> 00:17:25,533 Speaker 4: mold so much more so. He couldn't have done anything 334 00:17:25,573 --> 00:17:28,853 Speaker 4: more to state his case to start against Fiji, And 335 00:17:28,933 --> 00:17:34,373 Speaker 4: in my mind, has usurped Finlay Christie in one match. 336 00:17:34,493 --> 00:17:37,053 Speaker 2: Do you think that the All Blacks selectors and coaching 337 00:17:37,093 --> 00:17:37,973 Speaker 2: staff will agree with that? 338 00:17:38,013 --> 00:17:40,493 Speaker 4: Though, Look, I think they will be a lot more. 339 00:17:40,693 --> 00:17:43,213 Speaker 4: They've been very conservative to this point, haven't. They only 340 00:17:43,253 --> 00:17:46,133 Speaker 4: made injury and forced changes between the two Tests. But 341 00:17:46,293 --> 00:17:52,013 Speaker 4: this Fiji Test is their chance. So I hope that 342 00:17:52,253 --> 00:17:56,933 Speaker 4: they will start Cortez. I'm not entirely sure they will, 343 00:17:56,973 --> 00:18:00,813 Speaker 4: but it sounds like TJ. Petina will not travel to 344 00:18:00,973 --> 00:18:04,853 Speaker 4: San Diego, so Noah hotheam, we'll probably go. So Finlay 345 00:18:04,893 --> 00:18:08,653 Speaker 4: Christie and Cortez are your two half backs had to 346 00:18:08,693 --> 00:18:10,333 Speaker 4: start give quarters ago. 347 00:18:11,373 --> 00:18:12,573 Speaker 5: It just makes a lot of sense. 348 00:18:12,653 --> 00:18:14,613 Speaker 2: We're going to get into a Boden Barons and made 349 00:18:14,613 --> 00:18:16,853 Speaker 2: on the game that later on the Final four before 350 00:18:16,853 --> 00:18:19,813 Speaker 2: we wrap up the game though, Liam just on England 351 00:18:19,973 --> 00:18:22,093 Speaker 2: and what they've brought to the series. They look like 352 00:18:22,133 --> 00:18:24,853 Speaker 2: a team that is on the rise, and I think 353 00:18:25,573 --> 00:18:28,493 Speaker 2: Steve Borthwick's got them humming along quite nicely with you. 354 00:18:28,773 --> 00:18:32,453 Speaker 2: With a look to twenty twenty seven, very very young team. 355 00:18:32,533 --> 00:18:34,533 Speaker 2: A lot of those players will be there in twenty 356 00:18:34,533 --> 00:18:37,373 Speaker 2: twenty seven. They'll have a couple more test years under 357 00:18:37,373 --> 00:18:42,293 Speaker 2: the belt. Marotoji is standing up well exceeded as maximum 358 00:18:42,373 --> 00:18:44,253 Speaker 2: minutes for the season that he's supposed to play, but 359 00:18:44,573 --> 00:18:46,373 Speaker 2: you wouldn't have known it for at least sixty minutes 360 00:18:46,453 --> 00:18:47,853 Speaker 2: last night before it. Perhaps he got a little bit 361 00:18:47,893 --> 00:18:50,093 Speaker 2: tired and gave Way a couple of penalties. But this 362 00:18:50,133 --> 00:18:52,653 Speaker 2: looks like an England team that is really promising heading 363 00:18:52,653 --> 00:18:55,093 Speaker 2: into Australia. Lots of like about it. Marcus Smith I 364 00:18:55,133 --> 00:18:57,253 Speaker 2: thought was excellent last night. Alex Mitchell is a very 365 00:18:57,293 --> 00:19:00,533 Speaker 2: very good half back list and interesting outside backs. So 366 00:19:00,613 --> 00:19:03,293 Speaker 2: the signs I think are positive for England. And their 367 00:19:03,333 --> 00:19:06,573 Speaker 2: next test is against the All Blacks in November at 368 00:19:06,573 --> 00:19:10,173 Speaker 2: twickt Him. They'll have fresh leagues there, they'll fancy the 369 00:19:10,253 --> 00:19:12,053 Speaker 2: chances of getting the job done on home soil. But 370 00:19:12,213 --> 00:19:13,613 Speaker 2: a lot to luck about this England team. 371 00:19:14,093 --> 00:19:17,213 Speaker 4: They are resurgent in a big way and they have 372 00:19:17,413 --> 00:19:20,933 Speaker 4: so many more threats than they had what's six months ago? 373 00:19:21,013 --> 00:19:25,253 Speaker 4: Seven months ago at the World Cup. You mentioned Marcus Mitchell. 374 00:19:25,333 --> 00:19:28,293 Speaker 4: I'm a big fan of Mitchell. He's a dynamic running presence, 375 00:19:28,573 --> 00:19:32,493 Speaker 4: very accurate box kicker as well. Marcus Smith brings a 376 00:19:32,573 --> 00:19:35,173 Speaker 4: very different dynamic. This is an England team that still 377 00:19:35,173 --> 00:19:38,773 Speaker 4: has George Cruz to come back. Alice Ginge will make 378 00:19:38,813 --> 00:19:41,133 Speaker 4: a big difference to their front row and George Ford 379 00:19:41,293 --> 00:19:45,053 Speaker 4: not sure where he factors in, but very experienced playmaker. 380 00:19:46,133 --> 00:19:48,933 Speaker 4: And look this England team, they had a crack that 381 00:19:49,053 --> 00:19:53,893 Speaker 4: they chanced their arm at times. They threw everything into 382 00:19:53,893 --> 00:19:55,813 Speaker 4: it at the end of their long season. I think 383 00:19:55,813 --> 00:19:59,733 Speaker 4: Steve Borthwick is a very astute coach. He's had success 384 00:19:59,733 --> 00:20:03,093 Speaker 4: at club level. He's evolved Felix Jones and made a 385 00:20:03,093 --> 00:20:07,253 Speaker 4: massive difference with his rush defense that he's brought from 386 00:20:07,253 --> 00:20:10,333 Speaker 4: the spring box. They've got a couple of twenty one 387 00:20:10,413 --> 00:20:15,253 Speaker 4: year old prospects and Emmanuel and Channeler Comingham South who 388 00:20:15,373 --> 00:20:20,493 Speaker 4: look real comers. They just have multiple threats and they 389 00:20:20,493 --> 00:20:22,693 Speaker 4: are only going to get better. Maro Toji was out 390 00:20:22,733 --> 00:20:24,613 Speaker 4: on his feet for the last twenty months of that game. 391 00:20:24,613 --> 00:20:27,893 Speaker 4: Those surprises there, but you had a bit of locking depth. 392 00:20:27,933 --> 00:20:30,653 Speaker 4: With Cruise coming back, they are going to be a 393 00:20:30,693 --> 00:20:33,973 Speaker 4: real threat and I think teams are starting to sit 394 00:20:34,053 --> 00:20:35,973 Speaker 4: up and take notice of where England are and we've 395 00:20:36,013 --> 00:20:38,213 Speaker 4: got to give them credit because this was a really 396 00:20:38,253 --> 00:20:42,133 Speaker 4: tough start to attendure for Scott Robertson. This wasn't Wales 397 00:20:42,293 --> 00:20:46,093 Speaker 4: or Fiji or Australia at a low to a degree 398 00:20:46,173 --> 00:20:49,733 Speaker 4: that this was a real live threat and England would 399 00:20:49,733 --> 00:20:52,733 Speaker 4: have should have potentially won one both of those tests. 400 00:20:52,773 --> 00:20:56,613 Speaker 4: And yeah, they are going to be you look ahead 401 00:20:56,653 --> 00:20:59,453 Speaker 4: to November. Twicking them is a very tough place to 402 00:20:59,493 --> 00:21:02,613 Speaker 4: win and they'll be well fired up for that. 403 00:21:02,933 --> 00:21:03,333 Speaker 3: They will be. 404 00:21:03,373 --> 00:21:05,933 Speaker 2: Indeed, we'll take a quick break here on Rugby Direct, 405 00:21:05,973 --> 00:21:08,213 Speaker 2: come back with our final four after this, power to 406 00:21:08,373 --> 00:21:10,853 Speaker 2: always by Excess Solutions elevating you and your business to 407 00:21:10,893 --> 00:21:11,573 Speaker 2: a higher level. 408 00:21:12,253 --> 00:21:16,333 Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans. 409 00:21:21,453 --> 00:21:23,613 Speaker 1: Ruct Howard Biese. 410 00:21:23,253 --> 00:21:27,373 Speaker 2: Talks You're back with Rugby Direct powered by Excess Solutions 411 00:21:27,413 --> 00:21:30,973 Speaker 2: elevating you and your business to a higher level. Before 412 00:21:30,973 --> 00:21:33,573 Speaker 2: we get back into the All Blacks, that's take away 413 00:21:33,573 --> 00:21:36,013 Speaker 2: pit stop and divert ourselves to some of the other 414 00:21:36,173 --> 00:21:39,333 Speaker 2: games that went on during the weekends. Be nice to 415 00:21:39,653 --> 00:21:42,413 Speaker 2: watch all of them, but it is certainly not possible 416 00:21:42,453 --> 00:21:46,333 Speaker 2: with the number of hours in the day. But wow's 417 00:21:47,053 --> 00:21:49,573 Speaker 2: again similar story to the All Blacks in England. Similar 418 00:21:49,613 --> 00:21:52,453 Speaker 2: game to last week between Wales and Australia, but Australia 419 00:21:52,533 --> 00:21:56,413 Speaker 2: just kick on late to win that one. Ireland pitp 420 00:21:56,453 --> 00:22:01,893 Speaker 2: South Africa. Georgia beat Japan, Samoa held to a close 421 00:22:01,933 --> 00:22:04,653 Speaker 2: one over Spain. I think I'm missing a couple of 422 00:22:04,693 --> 00:22:07,853 Speaker 2: others to Italy bin Tonga. So it's been a festival 423 00:22:07,893 --> 00:22:09,213 Speaker 2: of rugby. What's stood out for you? 424 00:22:10,133 --> 00:22:12,693 Speaker 4: There's a lot to take innocent there. As you mentioned, 425 00:22:13,093 --> 00:22:16,133 Speaker 4: I think Argentina got up over over France and there's 426 00:22:16,173 --> 00:22:19,373 Speaker 4: certainly plenty going on in the French camp. They're in 427 00:22:19,413 --> 00:22:22,253 Speaker 4: a bit of disarray with what's happening off the field there. 428 00:22:22,293 --> 00:22:25,773 Speaker 4: But look, I think the most notable victory across the 429 00:22:25,773 --> 00:22:29,133 Speaker 4: board there is the Irish. That's a massive win in 430 00:22:29,173 --> 00:22:32,933 Speaker 4: South Africa. They had a number of injury challenges. I 431 00:22:32,933 --> 00:22:36,733 Speaker 4: think they benched their captain Peter o'many, but Bunda a 432 00:22:36,853 --> 00:22:41,493 Speaker 4: Kay didn't play and a late drop goal from Frawley 433 00:22:42,933 --> 00:22:45,253 Speaker 4: tipping the scales there. That's a huge win away from 434 00:22:45,293 --> 00:22:48,213 Speaker 4: home to level the series against the world champions, giving 435 00:22:48,653 --> 00:22:54,613 Speaker 4: given everything that Russy's pumped up and thrown around, they 436 00:22:54,653 --> 00:23:01,133 Speaker 4: were very conciliatory postmatch that the Springboks applauding Islands. Big 437 00:23:01,133 --> 00:23:04,013 Speaker 4: big result because I think Ireland in a way have 438 00:23:04,173 --> 00:23:08,173 Speaker 4: to regenerate that team. But there's a number of aging 439 00:23:08,333 --> 00:23:10,133 Speaker 4: players and it's going to be interesting to see how 440 00:23:10,133 --> 00:23:14,253 Speaker 4: they do that. But to recover from being reasonably well beaten, 441 00:23:14,333 --> 00:23:17,053 Speaker 4: I thought the score floated them week one there big 442 00:23:17,053 --> 00:23:22,013 Speaker 4: big result for Islands. The Welsh Wallabies game was what 443 00:23:22,133 --> 00:23:25,053 Speaker 4: I saw of. It was a good spectacle. Still two 444 00:23:25,053 --> 00:23:29,013 Speaker 4: teams struggling to find their way. Australia have a lot 445 00:23:29,013 --> 00:23:30,973 Speaker 4: of work to do they I think they're up seventeen 446 00:23:31,053 --> 00:23:34,653 Speaker 4: nil in allowed Wales to really storm back into that contest. 447 00:23:35,133 --> 00:23:38,853 Speaker 4: But look, it's a positive start for Schmid. Two wins 448 00:23:38,933 --> 00:23:40,493 Speaker 4: starting from an extremely low ebb. 449 00:23:40,973 --> 00:23:42,493 Speaker 3: And well, yeah, I'll tell you what. 450 00:23:42,533 --> 00:23:45,013 Speaker 2: Georgia coming into town in Australia next week on the 451 00:23:45,013 --> 00:23:47,173 Speaker 2: back of their win over Japan. That's not an easy 452 00:23:47,213 --> 00:23:50,013 Speaker 2: test next week for Australia either. No, in a very 453 00:23:50,053 --> 00:23:53,173 Speaker 2: different proposition in the way that Georgia play. They'll try 454 00:23:53,173 --> 00:23:56,533 Speaker 2: and squeeze her and target the scrum and a lot 455 00:23:56,573 --> 00:23:58,973 Speaker 2: of different pressure points. I just want to read something 456 00:23:59,013 --> 00:24:02,213 Speaker 2: to you here so and it puts into context for 457 00:24:02,293 --> 00:24:04,773 Speaker 2: me the Dave Renni era and the massive cock up 458 00:24:05,053 --> 00:24:08,133 Speaker 2: from Australian rugby to get rid of a various coach 459 00:24:08,413 --> 00:24:11,013 Speaker 2: The first four games of Dave and his tenure were 460 00:24:11,013 --> 00:24:14,013 Speaker 2: against pell Blacks. Seven of the first twelve were against 461 00:24:14,053 --> 00:24:16,733 Speaker 2: cel Blacks. He would have liked to have played Wales. 462 00:24:16,813 --> 00:24:20,213 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, Yeah, exactly, especially a Wales team at the 463 00:24:20,253 --> 00:24:23,493 Speaker 2: moment that is at a very from my mind low 464 00:24:23,533 --> 00:24:27,173 Speaker 2: Ebb with audue respect, lost some of those generational players 465 00:24:27,173 --> 00:24:30,613 Speaker 2: that have been there. As we mentioned last week, I 466 00:24:30,693 --> 00:24:34,213 Speaker 2: think Warren Gatland is yesterday's man and not the right 467 00:24:34,253 --> 00:24:37,213 Speaker 2: coach to lead this rebuild what this team needs. If 468 00:24:37,213 --> 00:24:39,413 Speaker 2: you cast you right at twenty twenty seven, I'm not 469 00:24:39,413 --> 00:24:43,173 Speaker 2: sure Warren Gatland's playing Warren balls the future for a 470 00:24:43,213 --> 00:24:47,053 Speaker 2: young Welsh team. So yeah, Joe Schmitz had a couple 471 00:24:47,093 --> 00:24:49,413 Speaker 2: of tests against Wales to get started Georgia next week. 472 00:24:49,693 --> 00:24:52,333 Speaker 2: But if we look at it, I guess Liam, the 473 00:24:52,533 --> 00:24:56,333 Speaker 2: South Africa Island, all Blacks, England at France and there 474 00:24:56,373 --> 00:24:59,093 Speaker 2: as well. There's not much between say the top five 475 00:24:59,133 --> 00:25:00,813 Speaker 2: teams and world rugby at the moment. 476 00:25:00,893 --> 00:25:01,573 Speaker 5: No, not at all. 477 00:25:01,933 --> 00:25:05,733 Speaker 4: On their day even any of those teams could tip 478 00:25:05,773 --> 00:25:08,853 Speaker 4: each other up. And it does come down to execution, 479 00:25:09,373 --> 00:25:14,333 Speaker 4: a refereeing decision, home advantage, a few injuries here and there, 480 00:25:14,773 --> 00:25:16,653 Speaker 4: you know, It is going to be fascinating to see 481 00:25:16,733 --> 00:25:19,733 Speaker 4: the plot lines and the results that play out over 482 00:25:19,773 --> 00:25:21,613 Speaker 4: the course of this year, let alone the coming years 483 00:25:21,613 --> 00:25:23,533 Speaker 4: between those nations, and it does look like there's a 484 00:25:23,573 --> 00:25:27,693 Speaker 4: real break between those nations and the Australia and Wales 485 00:25:27,693 --> 00:25:28,173 Speaker 4: of the world. 486 00:25:28,213 --> 00:25:31,253 Speaker 2: They do it does Indeed, Tommy number sway what changes 487 00:25:31,293 --> 00:25:33,893 Speaker 2: for the All Blacks as they had to San Diego? 488 00:25:33,973 --> 00:25:36,573 Speaker 2: As I mentioned, we're recording this on Sunday afternoon. Some 489 00:25:36,693 --> 00:25:39,133 Speaker 2: thought from Scott Robinson they may leave a couple of 490 00:25:39,173 --> 00:25:42,933 Speaker 2: players behind. They hadn't finalized their traveling squad at the 491 00:25:42,933 --> 00:25:46,333 Speaker 2: time of recording this, but I think we can assume 492 00:25:46,373 --> 00:25:51,293 Speaker 2: that the remaining four debutantes likely to play in San Diego, 493 00:25:51,453 --> 00:25:53,533 Speaker 2: so it could be a much changed team. I guess 494 00:25:53,573 --> 00:25:57,893 Speaker 2: if we work through it from one to fifteen, you know, 495 00:25:58,533 --> 00:26:00,053 Speaker 2: would you start do you start give off of this 496 00:26:00,133 --> 00:26:03,093 Speaker 2: off of throng A fussy and Fletcher knew all the 497 00:26:03,133 --> 00:26:06,733 Speaker 2: starts in the front row, perhaps alongside a softfer on 498 00:26:06,853 --> 00:26:09,253 Speaker 2: Moer and go that way in the front row. 499 00:26:09,933 --> 00:26:12,293 Speaker 5: Yes'm interesting to see quite how far they go with it. 500 00:26:12,333 --> 00:26:15,493 Speaker 4: Isn't it that would make sense because it would allow 501 00:26:15,533 --> 00:26:19,013 Speaker 4: you to bring Pasilio Tossi onto the bench for his 502 00:26:19,093 --> 00:26:22,973 Speaker 4: potential debut, and then you go to the locking department. 503 00:26:23,773 --> 00:26:28,733 Speaker 4: Whether Scott Barrett starts because he's captain or maybe Artie 504 00:26:28,773 --> 00:26:31,813 Speaker 4: carries the captaincy for this one, but you would think 505 00:26:31,853 --> 00:26:34,333 Speaker 4: to provide would come into the second row there. They 506 00:26:34,373 --> 00:26:37,373 Speaker 4: don't have another second row in the squad. Whether Sam 507 00:26:37,453 --> 00:26:40,853 Speaker 4: Dowry has taken over there, we don't know at this point, 508 00:26:41,373 --> 00:26:45,253 Speaker 4: and we've discussed the composition of the loose forwards. What 509 00:26:45,373 --> 00:26:46,333 Speaker 4: do you want to see there? 510 00:26:46,893 --> 00:26:50,293 Speaker 2: Well that I would like to see potentially, you know, 511 00:26:50,413 --> 00:26:52,893 Speaker 2: black at a Sava Stiti. Whether they go with that, 512 00:26:52,973 --> 00:26:57,933 Speaker 2: there's another matter entirely. They may go blackout of Jacobsen 513 00:26:58,093 --> 00:27:00,893 Speaker 2: Satiti potentially, But I think they're also if we look 514 00:27:00,893 --> 00:27:02,813 Speaker 2: at it from a wider angle, they don't want to 515 00:27:02,853 --> 00:27:04,533 Speaker 2: make it's gonna be tricky. They want to get those 516 00:27:04,533 --> 00:27:07,213 Speaker 2: combinations still going and also get these players on the park. 517 00:27:07,333 --> 00:27:10,453 Speaker 2: So it's a fine balance for Scorobson and in selectors. 518 00:27:10,773 --> 00:27:14,133 Speaker 4: It is because, as you mentioned, the style of game 519 00:27:14,173 --> 00:27:16,013 Speaker 4: that the Illbacks are trying to play has not been 520 00:27:16,053 --> 00:27:17,813 Speaker 4: evident to this point, and they do have some real 521 00:27:17,853 --> 00:27:20,533 Speaker 4: pressure points where they need to improve. So if you're 522 00:27:20,533 --> 00:27:22,573 Speaker 4: throwing a whole bunch of new players, a whole bunch 523 00:27:22,653 --> 00:27:25,733 Speaker 4: of new combinations, history tells us that you're going to 524 00:27:25,733 --> 00:27:28,413 Speaker 4: get a clunky performance. And look, the last thing you 525 00:27:28,453 --> 00:27:30,293 Speaker 4: want to do is just lose to Fiji. 526 00:27:30,373 --> 00:27:32,133 Speaker 3: So I guess we look at the backs. 527 00:27:32,373 --> 00:27:34,693 Speaker 2: Liam, we mentioned Cortez right to me, you would think 528 00:27:34,773 --> 00:27:36,413 Speaker 2: going to start Christie on the bench. 529 00:27:36,973 --> 00:27:38,093 Speaker 3: Ten's an interesting one. 530 00:27:39,533 --> 00:27:41,493 Speaker 2: Boden Barrett, do they give him a crack at ten 531 00:27:41,613 --> 00:27:43,253 Speaker 2: or do you go with McKenzie and go Okay, you 532 00:27:43,293 --> 00:27:46,533 Speaker 2: haven't necessarily set the world on fire first two weeks, 533 00:27:46,533 --> 00:27:48,853 Speaker 2: but here's your chance against Fiji to get that confidence 534 00:27:48,853 --> 00:27:49,253 Speaker 2: back up. 535 00:27:50,613 --> 00:27:54,933 Speaker 4: I think if you're looking long term, the McKenzie at 536 00:27:54,933 --> 00:27:58,773 Speaker 4: ten Bodemen at fallback makes more sense because you might 537 00:27:58,813 --> 00:28:01,293 Speaker 4: want to develop that combination. But I think if you 538 00:28:01,333 --> 00:28:04,973 Speaker 4: ask Bowden he'd want to start at ten. So it 539 00:28:05,053 --> 00:28:06,933 Speaker 4: is going to be really interesting to see how they 540 00:28:06,973 --> 00:28:09,653 Speaker 4: manage that dynamic. Damian mc kinsey, what's been your read 541 00:28:09,733 --> 00:28:12,453 Speaker 4: on his performances to tests? 542 00:28:12,493 --> 00:28:15,333 Speaker 3: And well, he hasn't played with a lot of front football. 543 00:28:16,213 --> 00:28:19,933 Speaker 2: I think his kicking game has been okay, but last 544 00:28:20,013 --> 00:28:23,053 Speaker 2: night they all blacks needed to get out of trouble 545 00:28:23,093 --> 00:28:26,213 Speaker 2: a couple of times and just didn't have the kind 546 00:28:26,213 --> 00:28:28,453 Speaker 2: of boot from Damie mckinziy or the kind of nouse 547 00:28:28,493 --> 00:28:32,013 Speaker 2: just to play fuel position and get them entering up 548 00:28:32,013 --> 00:28:34,373 Speaker 2: the park. And it was felt like they were scrambling 549 00:28:34,733 --> 00:28:37,573 Speaker 2: at ten and or at nine and ten for a while, 550 00:28:37,653 --> 00:28:40,213 Speaker 2: especially in that second half when they were campdown inside 551 00:28:40,213 --> 00:28:43,653 Speaker 2: their own thirty meters or thereabouts. So they need to 552 00:28:44,013 --> 00:28:45,373 Speaker 2: find a bit of there and that's on the team 553 00:28:45,373 --> 00:28:47,813 Speaker 2: to take a bit of ownership. But around that and 554 00:28:47,973 --> 00:28:49,693 Speaker 2: you know, get them into the right areas of the park. 555 00:28:49,693 --> 00:28:51,893 Speaker 2: And you can blame the Fords and not getting that 556 00:28:51,933 --> 00:28:54,853 Speaker 2: front football necessarily and a few issues around there, but 557 00:28:55,173 --> 00:28:56,373 Speaker 2: does fall on the ten as well. 558 00:28:57,133 --> 00:29:01,373 Speaker 4: I think the All Blacks tactical kicking contestable tactical kicking 559 00:29:01,573 --> 00:29:03,973 Speaker 4: was not great and the second test for la Chrissy's 560 00:29:04,013 --> 00:29:07,613 Speaker 4: box kicks were often very long and that allowed England 561 00:29:07,733 --> 00:29:11,773 Speaker 4: just to swallow position and come back. And yeah McKenzie 562 00:29:13,533 --> 00:29:16,253 Speaker 4: did well for that. Try to see Vorice from a 563 00:29:16,293 --> 00:29:19,973 Speaker 4: crossfield kick in Dunedin, but didn't see a lot of 564 00:29:20,653 --> 00:29:23,773 Speaker 4: that's at Eden Park. It was only really when Boden 565 00:29:23,813 --> 00:29:26,453 Speaker 4: Barrett came on having sat on the bench and surveyed 566 00:29:26,453 --> 00:29:29,453 Speaker 4: the game that the ablets kicking game started to come 567 00:29:29,493 --> 00:29:29,933 Speaker 4: to the four. 568 00:29:30,133 --> 00:29:31,253 Speaker 5: So I think you're right. 569 00:29:31,293 --> 00:29:33,773 Speaker 4: That's a big improvement that they'll be looking for. 570 00:29:34,493 --> 00:29:35,453 Speaker 3: Let's go the wings. 571 00:29:35,813 --> 00:29:38,613 Speaker 2: Look the morning at Laua and Caleb Clark haven't had 572 00:29:38,693 --> 00:29:41,613 Speaker 2: any game time as yet. Feels fairly obvious that you 573 00:29:41,693 --> 00:29:42,813 Speaker 2: put both of those players in. 574 00:29:43,373 --> 00:29:45,573 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, and it's I feel like it's 575 00:29:45,573 --> 00:29:47,733 Speaker 4: a lot easier to change wings than it is a 576 00:29:47,773 --> 00:29:51,533 Speaker 4: locking combination. You know, those are two guys, particularly Clark 577 00:29:51,613 --> 00:29:54,373 Speaker 4: who was scored a hat trick in the Super Aby 578 00:29:54,373 --> 00:29:56,973 Speaker 4: Final and would potentially feel hard done by that. He 579 00:29:57,013 --> 00:29:59,893 Speaker 4: hasn't had a crack to this point, particularly given his 580 00:29:59,973 --> 00:30:05,653 Speaker 4: aerial abilities and the way England liked to attack. So yeah, 581 00:30:05,693 --> 00:30:09,733 Speaker 4: you'd think they'd both come in and the midfield a 582 00:30:09,813 --> 00:30:14,253 Speaker 4: bit of a well, it's Anton, Lena Brown and Billy 583 00:30:14,293 --> 00:30:17,853 Speaker 4: Proctor who's yet today boot They would potentially make sense 584 00:30:17,893 --> 00:30:23,693 Speaker 4: as a combination. Anton probably more accustomed to center, but 585 00:30:23,853 --> 00:30:26,893 Speaker 4: is very comfortable at second five as well. But do 586 00:30:26,933 --> 00:30:28,453 Speaker 4: you want to retain a bit of continuity. 587 00:30:28,533 --> 00:30:32,293 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing is if you get rid of everyone, 588 00:30:33,093 --> 00:30:35,413 Speaker 2: you lose that continuity that you've had for the last 589 00:30:35,453 --> 00:30:39,133 Speaker 2: couple of tests, and wouldn't surprise me to maybe see 590 00:30:39,373 --> 00:30:42,813 Speaker 2: Leonard Brown at twelve, Yuanni at thirteen still and then 591 00:30:42,813 --> 00:30:45,453 Speaker 2: add Billy Proctor coming off the bench. I don't think 592 00:30:45,533 --> 00:30:49,013 Speaker 2: Rico Yuani look that great in the first couple of tests, 593 00:30:49,013 --> 00:30:50,813 Speaker 2: hasn't made the impact. I thought he went looking for 594 00:30:50,813 --> 00:30:53,213 Speaker 2: a bit more work last night and tried it, just 595 00:30:53,253 --> 00:30:56,493 Speaker 2: couldn't really get things going. So I wondered whether Rico 596 00:30:56,613 --> 00:30:59,573 Speaker 2: Uani gets another outing at center with Anton and Brown 597 00:30:59,573 --> 00:31:00,373 Speaker 2: inside them. 598 00:31:00,613 --> 00:31:03,053 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's all sorts of ways that you could divv 599 00:31:03,173 --> 00:31:05,853 Speaker 4: that up, isn't it Jordi Barrett and Billy Proctor as 600 00:31:05,893 --> 00:31:08,653 Speaker 4: a combination. But I think Anton and a Brown as 601 00:31:08,693 --> 00:31:11,733 Speaker 4: the next cab off the rank, so he needs a start. 602 00:31:12,533 --> 00:31:15,653 Speaker 4: And you're right in terms of genuine line breaks that 603 00:31:15,813 --> 00:31:19,173 Speaker 4: didn't come from counter attacks, it's hard to remember any 604 00:31:19,253 --> 00:31:22,093 Speaker 4: really from the All Blacks, and Rico falls into that category. 605 00:31:22,173 --> 00:31:25,413 Speaker 4: So you've got to be wary that the All Blacks 606 00:31:25,413 --> 00:31:27,573 Speaker 4: are playing fourteen tests this year, so they do need 607 00:31:27,613 --> 00:31:29,293 Speaker 4: to rotate, they do fall back. 608 00:31:29,413 --> 00:31:32,173 Speaker 2: I'd stat with Steven Peter Fetter if you're not starting 609 00:31:32,253 --> 00:31:37,093 Speaker 2: voting Barrett at ten. I think Parafetter with another go. 610 00:31:37,093 --> 00:31:39,253 Speaker 2: I remembering him that big block of Super Rugby as 611 00:31:39,293 --> 00:31:43,493 Speaker 2: well through injury, So not like he's overly desperate for 612 00:31:43,533 --> 00:31:45,573 Speaker 2: a break. He wouldn't have thought. So it's gonna be 613 00:31:45,573 --> 00:31:49,013 Speaker 2: fascinating that all backs team out as always around lunch 614 00:31:49,053 --> 00:31:53,373 Speaker 2: time on Thursday time after topic three in the Final 615 00:31:53,373 --> 00:31:56,013 Speaker 2: four here on Rugby Direct. So I've labeled this one 616 00:31:56,093 --> 00:32:01,573 Speaker 2: the Bowden Barrett conundrum Liam because his performance last night 617 00:32:01,693 --> 00:32:05,053 Speaker 2: was exceptional off the bench, plugged in for what half 618 00:32:05,053 --> 00:32:08,213 Speaker 2: an hour roughly coming on and change the game is tech. 619 00:32:08,453 --> 00:32:12,053 Speaker 2: All kicking was immense pinned England back and those all 620 00:32:12,093 --> 00:32:14,813 Speaker 2: away switches in the game, you know, momentum was all 621 00:32:14,813 --> 00:32:16,813 Speaker 2: with England, and then in the matter of a couple 622 00:32:16,813 --> 00:32:19,293 Speaker 2: of moments, Boden Barrett put it all back on England's 623 00:32:19,293 --> 00:32:21,773 Speaker 2: shoulders and put the all Blacks in the ascendency, set 624 00:32:21,813 --> 00:32:25,173 Speaker 2: up Mark to lay for that try as well with 625 00:32:25,253 --> 00:32:29,293 Speaker 2: a lovely break he took on the line first and foremost. 626 00:32:29,293 --> 00:32:31,613 Speaker 2: If we get into what this means, just a very 627 00:32:31,693 --> 00:32:33,773 Speaker 2: very good performance from Boden Barrett coming off the bench. 628 00:32:34,653 --> 00:32:35,773 Speaker 5: It was exceptional wasn't it. 629 00:32:35,813 --> 00:32:38,373 Speaker 4: And I genuinely don't think the All Blacks won that 630 00:32:38,413 --> 00:32:41,293 Speaker 4: Test without that sort of performance. And that's not been 631 00:32:42,373 --> 00:32:46,093 Speaker 4: hyperbole or anything. It's just how much influence he had 632 00:32:46,573 --> 00:32:49,053 Speaker 4: and all the instances that he touched on, and it 633 00:32:49,213 --> 00:32:53,293 Speaker 4: was just how decisive he was, having sat on the bench, 634 00:32:54,333 --> 00:32:57,813 Speaker 4: surveyed the match, knowing what was required, knowing where the 635 00:32:57,853 --> 00:33:02,573 Speaker 4: space was, influencing the game with his kicking, running, passing, 636 00:33:02,613 --> 00:33:04,813 Speaker 4: he really was the triple threat that the All Blacks 637 00:33:04,853 --> 00:33:07,213 Speaker 4: needed and it was a It's a back to the 638 00:33:07,253 --> 00:33:11,853 Speaker 4: future performance, isn't it. Because Bodens started his career one 639 00:33:11,893 --> 00:33:15,373 Speaker 4: hundred and twenty odd tests ago being that super sub 640 00:33:15,413 --> 00:33:17,773 Speaker 4: impact guy for the All Blacks coming on changing the 641 00:33:17,813 --> 00:33:21,693 Speaker 4: game with his pace and he's not that player to 642 00:33:21,773 --> 00:33:25,733 Speaker 4: a degree, but that really was what he brought at 643 00:33:25,733 --> 00:33:29,373 Speaker 4: the start of his All Blacks career. And the conundrum, 644 00:33:29,413 --> 00:33:32,613 Speaker 4: as you put it, is having performed that role, so well, 645 00:33:33,493 --> 00:33:34,613 Speaker 4: how do you go away from that? 646 00:33:36,493 --> 00:33:38,053 Speaker 2: Do you go away for a look. I think Boden's 647 00:33:38,093 --> 00:33:40,213 Speaker 2: been clear that he wants a go at ten at 648 00:33:40,253 --> 00:33:42,253 Speaker 2: some point that will be commeda at im sure whether 649 00:33:42,253 --> 00:33:44,013 Speaker 2: it's this speak against VG, but whether it's the long 650 00:33:44,053 --> 00:33:45,293 Speaker 2: term strategy of the All Blacks. 651 00:33:45,613 --> 00:33:45,973 Speaker 3: I don't know. 652 00:33:45,973 --> 00:33:47,853 Speaker 2: I think the long term strategy if you look four years, 653 00:33:47,933 --> 00:33:50,453 Speaker 2: is Richid Morgan comes back. But I think when the 654 00:33:50,453 --> 00:33:53,853 Speaker 2: All Blacks was strong, especially in that period from twenty 655 00:33:53,933 --> 00:33:58,973 Speaker 2: ten to let's say about twenty seventeen, the bench was exceptional, 656 00:33:59,693 --> 00:34:01,853 Speaker 2: really good, and it could change Test matches when it 657 00:34:01,893 --> 00:34:06,813 Speaker 2: came on and through experienced players going players being elevated 658 00:34:06,853 --> 00:34:10,253 Speaker 2: to the starting side. It was like perhaps the last 659 00:34:10,293 --> 00:34:12,093 Speaker 2: four or five years they haven't had that kick from 660 00:34:12,133 --> 00:34:15,013 Speaker 2: the bench that they would necessarily want or did have 661 00:34:15,493 --> 00:34:19,013 Speaker 2: in that previous period. And for me, I think, without 662 00:34:19,053 --> 00:34:21,173 Speaker 2: wanting to pigeonhole him, if you can get thirty minutes 663 00:34:21,213 --> 00:34:22,773 Speaker 2: of boat and bear it out like that in a 664 00:34:22,813 --> 00:34:25,973 Speaker 2: Test match when he's coming in watching things off the 665 00:34:25,973 --> 00:34:31,413 Speaker 2: bench and playing against some tired legs, he's seen opportunity 666 00:34:31,453 --> 00:34:34,373 Speaker 2: to sum things up off the bench and go Okay, 667 00:34:34,413 --> 00:34:37,013 Speaker 2: maybe this tactical work, maybe I can do this, this 668 00:34:37,093 --> 00:34:40,653 Speaker 2: and this. That is valuable to the All Blacks. And 669 00:34:40,693 --> 00:34:42,693 Speaker 2: I think if you can get the bench ride, that 670 00:34:42,813 --> 00:34:45,373 Speaker 2: helps you win Test matches more often than not in 671 00:34:45,573 --> 00:34:48,933 Speaker 2: the way that modern rugby's played. So for me at 672 00:34:48,933 --> 00:34:51,053 Speaker 2: the moment, I'd keep him on the bench. 673 00:34:51,973 --> 00:34:54,213 Speaker 4: I think the doors still a jar at ten because 674 00:34:54,253 --> 00:34:57,213 Speaker 4: as we've touched on, McKenzie hasn't commanded that role. He 675 00:34:57,253 --> 00:34:59,853 Speaker 4: hasn't nawed that role down, So that's an open discussion 676 00:35:00,413 --> 00:35:04,253 Speaker 4: going forward. But longer term will Jordan, you would think, 677 00:35:04,413 --> 00:35:07,333 Speaker 4: is going to be the bolted on fullback, and so 678 00:35:07,413 --> 00:35:11,493 Speaker 4: that does lea You've boden in a compromise position to 679 00:35:11,533 --> 00:35:15,253 Speaker 4: a degree that and having performed that role so well 680 00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:19,253 Speaker 4: and his flexibility in covering both ten and fifteen, it 681 00:35:19,333 --> 00:35:22,653 Speaker 4: just makes him so ideal for that super sub role. 682 00:35:23,333 --> 00:35:25,173 Speaker 4: But it's not a discussion that's going to go away. 683 00:35:25,213 --> 00:35:29,093 Speaker 4: He will have some starts, presumably at first five to 684 00:35:30,373 --> 00:35:34,173 Speaker 4: accommodate his desire to play there and his experience in 685 00:35:34,213 --> 00:35:38,373 Speaker 4: that role. But in recent history he hasn't commanded that 686 00:35:38,453 --> 00:35:40,973 Speaker 4: role either and challenged the line and brought everything that 687 00:35:41,013 --> 00:35:45,373 Speaker 4: you want from a first five. And for the All Blacks, 688 00:35:45,373 --> 00:35:48,413 Speaker 4: he has in recent time has been largely a fullback, 689 00:35:48,733 --> 00:35:51,373 Speaker 4: so it would be a paradigm shift to a degree. 690 00:35:51,813 --> 00:35:54,613 Speaker 4: So look at this stage, I think the All Blacks 691 00:35:54,613 --> 00:35:56,533 Speaker 4: would be reluctant to go away from it. 692 00:35:56,613 --> 00:35:58,453 Speaker 5: Against in their big tests. 693 00:35:58,973 --> 00:36:04,813 Speaker 4: Fiji different proposition, Australia Puma's maybe a different proposition. But 694 00:36:04,813 --> 00:36:07,253 Speaker 4: if you're playing the spring box tomorrow in South Africa, 695 00:36:08,053 --> 00:36:10,573 Speaker 4: while would you go away from that because it works 696 00:36:10,573 --> 00:36:12,653 Speaker 4: so well? But it is going to be dependent to 697 00:36:12,653 --> 00:36:15,173 Speaker 4: a degree about how Will Jordan comes back. He's been 698 00:36:15,173 --> 00:36:18,453 Speaker 4: out all year with shoulder surgery and it's a big 699 00:36:18,453 --> 00:36:21,213 Speaker 4: ass to walk straight back into Test rugby and dominate 700 00:36:21,253 --> 00:36:23,893 Speaker 4: in a position that you haven't played at Test level. 701 00:36:24,213 --> 00:36:25,853 Speaker 5: We've seen the step. 702 00:36:25,653 --> 00:36:28,693 Speaker 4: Up from Super rugby, so I don't think it's an 703 00:36:28,693 --> 00:36:31,653 Speaker 4: automatic that Will Jordan's going to be exceptional straight off 704 00:36:31,653 --> 00:36:34,093 Speaker 4: the bat there either. So there's a few things to 705 00:36:34,133 --> 00:36:38,093 Speaker 4: play out there. But at this point it does seem 706 00:36:38,133 --> 00:36:41,893 Speaker 4: like Boden long term is destined to perform that role. 707 00:36:41,933 --> 00:36:45,173 Speaker 4: Whether he's happy and comfortable in that, he's always going 708 00:36:45,213 --> 00:36:48,253 Speaker 4: to say that publicly privately, every player wants to. 709 00:36:48,173 --> 00:36:50,973 Speaker 2: Start, and I guess the bench thing as well is 710 00:36:51,213 --> 00:36:55,693 Speaker 2: also you know for quarteriers, you know, maybe you know 711 00:36:55,973 --> 00:36:58,333 Speaker 2: when things have slowed down a little, you injects a 712 00:36:58,413 --> 00:37:01,413 Speaker 2: player like that into the side, it may not necessarily 713 00:37:01,493 --> 00:37:03,333 Speaker 2: work as well for them when they're coming in from 714 00:37:03,373 --> 00:37:05,333 Speaker 2: when it won It's a completely different role starting a 715 00:37:05,413 --> 00:37:08,533 Speaker 2: test than coming in in fifty to fifty five minutes 716 00:37:08,613 --> 00:37:10,053 Speaker 2: and looking to make an impact. 717 00:37:10,053 --> 00:37:12,733 Speaker 3: That way, you have a completely different role to change. 718 00:37:13,853 --> 00:37:17,013 Speaker 4: If you think about longer term, we're talking about changing 719 00:37:17,053 --> 00:37:20,093 Speaker 4: the composition of the all blacks, loose forwards and you 720 00:37:20,213 --> 00:37:24,853 Speaker 4: bring in someone like can Roy guards fit well, Jordan's fit. 721 00:37:25,253 --> 00:37:28,693 Speaker 4: So you think about a possible bench of Quartez Atima, 722 00:37:29,293 --> 00:37:33,293 Speaker 4: Boden Barrett, Anton, Leonard Brown, Fletcher Newell, Dalton, Papa Lei. 723 00:37:34,053 --> 00:37:37,173 Speaker 4: That is a powerful asset to have and a potential 724 00:37:37,373 --> 00:37:41,173 Speaker 4: match turning impact and it is a massive part of 725 00:37:41,493 --> 00:37:45,333 Speaker 4: the modern game. So those dynamics will be will be 726 00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:45,933 Speaker 4: weighed heavily. 727 00:37:46,053 --> 00:37:48,533 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially you know Boden Barrett maybe needs to play. 728 00:37:48,573 --> 00:37:49,893 Speaker 2: But a half back of field Black's going to go 729 00:37:49,933 --> 00:37:50,853 Speaker 2: to that seven to one bench. 730 00:37:51,013 --> 00:37:53,293 Speaker 3: That stuff. Who does That's the way tears Rugby's gone. 731 00:37:53,333 --> 00:37:56,213 Speaker 5: Perhaps why not? I mean he did he did it 732 00:37:56,253 --> 00:37:58,853 Speaker 5: all on Saturday night, Eden Parke didn't there. 733 00:37:58,733 --> 00:37:59,293 Speaker 3: He did indeed? 734 00:37:59,373 --> 00:38:02,293 Speaker 2: Right, final topic in our final four on rugby drinks, 735 00:38:02,293 --> 00:38:04,213 Speaker 2: give us a rating for the first two tests. Let's 736 00:38:04,253 --> 00:38:06,453 Speaker 2: go out of ten for this one. How would you 737 00:38:06,453 --> 00:38:07,653 Speaker 2: assist the all Blacks out of ten. 738 00:38:08,733 --> 00:38:12,853 Speaker 4: Okay, yes, I'm a historically tough, harsh marker. Potentially I'm 739 00:38:12,853 --> 00:38:17,373 Speaker 4: going to say a six. I weigh that against the 740 00:38:17,413 --> 00:38:21,773 Speaker 4: fact that they've had a limited window of opportunity to 741 00:38:21,773 --> 00:38:24,813 Speaker 4: bring the squad together, a new coaching team, the post 742 00:38:24,813 --> 00:38:31,533 Speaker 4: World Cup departure's influential Rattelic White, Lock, Muanga Frazelle, Aaron Smith. 743 00:38:32,533 --> 00:38:36,653 Speaker 4: You know, the list goes on there. But Dell Blacks 744 00:38:36,653 --> 00:38:41,533 Speaker 4: have looked suddenly vulnerable and I think most people probably 745 00:38:41,533 --> 00:38:45,973 Speaker 4: expected a bit more. Maybe that was over selling Razor's influence, 746 00:38:46,853 --> 00:38:51,973 Speaker 4: but deal Black set are very high standard and they're 747 00:38:51,973 --> 00:38:55,053 Speaker 4: going to need to improve significantly. You're a hard marker, 748 00:38:55,453 --> 00:38:55,733 Speaker 4: I am. 749 00:38:55,853 --> 00:38:57,533 Speaker 3: If I move on dancing with the stars, I hope 750 00:38:57,533 --> 00:38:58,773 Speaker 3: you want to judge. 751 00:38:58,493 --> 00:39:02,573 Speaker 4: I'll say what you're dancing. I'm given straight tens, mate, 752 00:39:03,133 --> 00:39:03,933 Speaker 4: I'll pay to see that. 753 00:39:04,053 --> 00:39:07,813 Speaker 2: I'm giving seven out of ten. They won both tests. 754 00:39:09,213 --> 00:39:13,573 Speaker 2: That's test rugby. You beat a very very strong team 755 00:39:13,613 --> 00:39:17,973 Speaker 2: like England twice in your own backyard, didn't play anywhere 756 00:39:18,013 --> 00:39:21,373 Speaker 2: near your potential. Still got a lot to go still 757 00:39:21,373 --> 00:39:23,533 Speaker 2: on both tests, two or two seven out of ten. 758 00:39:24,053 --> 00:39:25,853 Speaker 2: I set a high bar, mate, What can I say 759 00:39:25,893 --> 00:39:28,653 Speaker 2: that's all right, all right, that'll about do us for 760 00:39:28,693 --> 00:39:31,373 Speaker 2: Rugby Direct. You've got to arrest your voice. Fortunately we've 761 00:39:31,373 --> 00:39:34,493 Speaker 2: got through the week with no further injuries. Thank you 762 00:39:34,573 --> 00:39:38,693 Speaker 2: for all your concern last week, both in purpose person 763 00:39:38,733 --> 00:39:42,373 Speaker 2: and privately around the injury. That's some real Brittleian dished 764 00:39:42,413 --> 00:39:46,573 Speaker 2: out brittle bones kelseium deficit. I think, as we mentioned 765 00:39:47,013 --> 00:39:49,453 Speaker 2: a couple of times this week, but that will do 766 00:39:49,533 --> 00:39:51,853 Speaker 2: us for Rugby Direct. We back next week. We'll wrap 767 00:39:51,933 --> 00:39:55,693 Speaker 2: up the Fiji Test in San Diego. Until next time, 768 00:39:55,693 --> 00:39:57,533 Speaker 2: I thanks to Last and Bars English for producing this 769 00:39:57,573 --> 00:40:00,853 Speaker 2: podcast and Access Solutions as well for their sponsorship of 770 00:40:00,933 --> 00:40:04,173 Speaker 2: Rugby Direct, elevating you and your business to a high level. 771 00:40:08,453 --> 00:40:11,333 Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air 772 00:40:11,533 --> 00:40:14,213 Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you 773 00:40:14,293 --> 00:40:16,733 Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio