1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320
Speaker 1: Now, it's fair to say Labour's first new policy in

2
00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: years has not been a total success. It's been met

3
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: with widespread criticism for being short on details and just

4
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,160
Speaker 1: a bit of a rubbish idea. Patrick Smalley wrote a

5
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 1: particularly blunt opinion piece for Business Deskinies with us hallo, Patrick, Okay,

6
00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: how do you market out of ten.

7
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:24,479
Speaker 2: Or about a three? I mean, you know, I think

8
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 2: the idea is not necessarily well. Some of the idea

9
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:35,040
Speaker 2: bad idea, you know, ring fencing in an independent agency

10
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 2: or fund an infrastructure or maybe a startup fund which

11
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,640
Speaker 2: politicians can't get their hands on and change their minds

12
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,880
Speaker 2: about it all the time. That's fine, but this is

13
00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,600
Speaker 2: a very small fund. So talking about two hundred million

14
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:52,400
Speaker 2: dollars to kick it off, and I mean, we don't

15
00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 2: know exactly which cash generating state owned enterprises would be

16
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,440
Speaker 2: kicking funds into the thing, but it'd be It's hard

17
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 2: to imagine that we have more than seven or one

18
00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars a year to spend and that's just

19
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:06,640
Speaker 2: a drop in the bucket for the things that we

20
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 2: need to spend on infrastructure, and it's it seems like

21
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,280
Speaker 2: it's more a kind of virtue signaling things saying we'll

22
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:18,120
Speaker 2: never let government assets be sold, which you know reasonable

23
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,040
Speaker 2: people will argue about. But it seems to be there

24
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,040
Speaker 2: are some things that the government needs to build and

25
00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,800
Speaker 2: spend money on infrastructure in there, and it could do

26
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,320
Speaker 2: that if it feed up some funds for some things

27
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 2: that doesn't actually need to own. So it's more about

28
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 2: the privatization rate than anything else.

29
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,880
Speaker 1: Well quite right, So is this actually about a policy

30
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: idea or is this actually more about politics, about setting

31
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,760
Speaker 1: themselves up to be able to fight national on the

32
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,640
Speaker 1: potential capital potential asset sales that may happen at the

33
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: next election, and also finding some common ground with New

34
00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 1: Zealand First for a potential coalition. Is that really what

35
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: it's about?

36
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,280
Speaker 2: In some ways, I think it's actually more about the latter.

37
00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,720
Speaker 2: I mean, I could be obviously one hundred percent wrong,

38
00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,000
Speaker 2: but the one thing that strikes me the upcoming election

39
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 2: next year is it, just like every other election in

40
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 2: recent times, the only party that can really shift to

41
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 2: left or right is in New Zealand. First, they say

42
00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,679
Speaker 2: they wo work with cruscipients, but I suspect they would

43
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:17,080
Speaker 2: work them if they worked with labor before. If the

44
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 2: circumstances arose where Labor looked like a good former government,

45
00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 2: but it had a choice between the party Molding and

46
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 2: New Zealand First. It's not that difficult to imagine circumstances

47
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 2: with both Labor and New Zealand First would think that

48
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,680
Speaker 2: wasn't a bad outcome to get back together. New Zealand

49
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 2: First could claimed to be sensible. Labor could say, with

50
00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,359
Speaker 2: lots of things we agree about, including having a crack

51
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,920
Speaker 2: at the generated betailers and doing this kind of sovereign

52
00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 2: fund idea. But remember Peter's idea for a sovereign fund

53
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 2: was one hundred billion dollars, whereas this thing starts with

54
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,720
Speaker 2: two hundred million. It's chalk and cheese.

55
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: Now do we not tell me if I'm wrong here?

56
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:57,959
Speaker 1: But do we not already have a fund that does

57
00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:59,679
Speaker 1: basically what this fund is supposed to do, which is

58
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 1: invest New Zealand businesses. And isn't that fund the New

59
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 1: Zealand Growth Capital Partner's Fund.

60
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 2: Well, I suppose that's where I find the whole thing

61
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,160
Speaker 2: a little bit confused. Is it an infrastructure fund or

62
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 2: is it an early stage good ideas New Zealand business

63
00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,920
Speaker 2: investing funds it's both according to the material that they've

64
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 2: had arrested yesterday. And what concerns me about that is

65
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,800
Speaker 2: it that says to me that they haven't really bought

66
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,239
Speaker 2: their own way through what it's for very well. Yes,

67
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 2: And the other thing is, I guess you're right. There

68
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 2: are lots of pots of dough of about that sort

69
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,320
Speaker 2: of two hundred million dollar size already available and doing

70
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,560
Speaker 2: either good or mediocre work, depending on how well they manage.

71
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:45,720
Speaker 1: Now, Patrick, tell me, do you think that they will

72
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,600
Speaker 1: be genuinely surprised at how badly this has landed.

73
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that it has landed as badly as

74
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 2: the commentariat people like me have had to crack at it.

75
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,240
Speaker 2: But I see a lot of you know, a lot

76
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: of labor people like the like the sound of it.

77
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,240
Speaker 2: It sounds good, sounds about right. And if you if

78
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,320
Speaker 2: you don't think too hard about about the fact that

79
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 2: it's sort of the difference between ten cents one hundred

80
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 2: dollars in terms of the scale of the thing, then

81
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: you know, it can sound like a good idea. But

82
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,920
Speaker 2: it's just it just does to me, it's not credible.

83
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,720
Speaker 2: I've looked at too many policies like this being announced

84
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,120
Speaker 2: before elections over god knows how many years now, and

85
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,360
Speaker 2: it's a it's a tiddler of a policy.

86
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Patrick, it's always good to talk to you. Thank

87
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,560
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. That's Patrick Smelly, the

88
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,839
Speaker 1: founding editor of Business Desk. For more from Heather du

89
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,800
Speaker 1: Classy Alan Drive, listen live to News Talks. It'd be

90
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio