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Speaker 1: We have a new report that shed some light on

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Speaker 1: what we all think about gender equality. Nearly half of

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Speaker 1: us think that equality has already been achieved. Seventeen percent

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Speaker 1: of New Zealanders think that if someone is raped when

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Speaker 1: they're drunk, they're at least partly responsible for it, and

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Speaker 1: a rising number think that it's understandable for a man

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Speaker 1: to hit out when his partner tries to leave. President

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Speaker 1: of the National Council of Women, doctor Suzanne Manning, is

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Speaker 1: behind the study. High Suzann, Hello, So one in three

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Speaker 1: young men think equality has gone too far, and forty

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Speaker 1: percent of us no longer see sexism as a significant issue.

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Speaker 1: What a reckon's going on here?

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Speaker 2: I'm reckoning that people have become complacent. We have had

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Speaker 2: some wins in the past few years, and there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who have gone, Yep, that's enough,

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Speaker 2: we've done it. We're there. So that's the general thing

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Speaker 2: that where people think that we're already there. But there

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Speaker 2: is a group of people who have got these hard

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Speaker 2: ideas about it's going too far in the other direction. Now,

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Speaker 2: where's that coming from? It is it's hard to know

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Speaker 2: young men, for example, young people in general, they tend

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Speaker 2: to have some sixed ideas by the time they get

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Speaker 2: to twenty based on their upbringing. So here's my question,

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Speaker 2: what's their upbringing being like that they don't know that

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Speaker 2: they see gender equality as being a negative thing. Is

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Speaker 2: it all that it's going to.

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Speaker 1: Be that they see that there are jobs that are

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Speaker 1: ear marked only for women, and for example, we have

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Speaker 1: you know, we have this, we make a decision that

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Speaker 1: we've got to have fifty percent of public service boards

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Speaker 1: be women. And so I mean, obviously there will be

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Speaker 1: some men who are qualified who will lose out to

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Speaker 1: women who are less qualified in the drive in order

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Speaker 1: to get women on that board. Is that possibly what

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Speaker 1: they what they are referring to when they say it

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Speaker 1: goes too far? But basically the dei aspect of it.

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Speaker 2: People often think that often think that a rebalancing is

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Speaker 2: a bad thing. So from a gender equality point of view,

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Speaker 2: the reason that some of those things get put in

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Speaker 2: is because it's not fair at the moment, but it's

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Speaker 2: not fair for women generally. So what men see is

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Speaker 2: being comfortable with the status quo and all these rules

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Speaker 2: that are put in to take their privileges away from them.

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Speaker 2: So people don't like that sort of change. People don't

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Speaker 2: like things being taken away from them, even even if

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Speaker 2: they are advantages, but often that they don't realize their

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Speaker 2: unfair advantages. They just want to keep on what I mean,

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Speaker 2: we will do, don't we We will want to keep

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Speaker 2: what we've got, but the people without want a bit

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Speaker 2: of the biggest slice of the pie.

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Speaker 1: Then we've got the stuff about rape. Seventeen percent of

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Speaker 1: key we think that if someone is raped when they're drunk,

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Speaker 1: there at least partly responsible for it. Eleven percent of

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Speaker 1: people think that if someone doesn't physically fight back, you

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Speaker 1: can't call it rape. How do you explain that?

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Speaker 2: They are entrenched attitudes that are hangover from the past.

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Speaker 2: But they are entrench because there's a small core that

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Speaker 2: still believes that. And I'm not sure how are we

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Speaker 2: going to shift that, Because while there's a group that

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Speaker 2: condone that sort of behavior, we are not going to

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Speaker 2: turn around our stats. We're not going to decrease the

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Speaker 2: appalling amount of sexual violence that we have.

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Speaker 1: And then a rising number of people reckon it's understandable

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Speaker 1: for a man to hit out when his partner tries

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Speaker 1: to leave. Now I was confused by what you mean

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Speaker 1: by hit out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of people are, and we are interested

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Speaker 2: in digging deeper into how people are answering that question.

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Speaker 2: The original intention was basically hit out in a physical

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Speaker 2: violence sense, all right, But we acknowledge that some people

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Speaker 2: would look at that as hit out in a verbal

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Speaker 2: or other sense. But having said that, we actually think

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Speaker 2: that that's just as bad. It's still abuse, it's still violence.

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Speaker 2: What people mean by understandable, I'm not sure. Again, we'd

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Speaker 2: like to look more of it, but the basic gist

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Speaker 2: of that one is there are people condoning violence. However

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Speaker 2: you look at it, people are condoning violence.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, I mean, Susan, can I give you an

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Speaker 1: alternative perspective? Because I looked at it and I just

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Speaker 1: read it as a man is you know, it is

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Speaker 1: understandable a man's going to pack a giant tantrum when

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Speaker 1: his partner tries to leave it. And I would have

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Speaker 1: thought that that's just reality, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Hit out, I think is actually a phrase that has

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Speaker 2: aimed at someone. So anyone can sit there and throw

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Speaker 2: wobbly yeah, But when you're actually hitting out at somebody,

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Speaker 2: that person becomes a target. That becomes abuse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Suzan, thank you that's really interesting. I appreciate you

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Speaker 1: us through all of that, Doctor Suzanne Manning, who is

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Speaker 1: the President of the National Council of Women. For more

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Speaker 1: from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks.

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