1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Cura. I'm Susann Udquitzt and for Chelsea Daniels. And this 2 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: is the Front Page, a daily podcast presented by the 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: New Zealand Herald. Scott Robertson is the most successful coach 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: in Super rugby history, leading the Crusaders to seven back 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: to back titles. He's also a firm favorite with the public. 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: It is perhaps the most popular rugby coach we've ever had. 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: But his transition from the Red and Blacks to leading 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: the All Blacks hasn't been smooth sailing. The national side 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: has posted three losses from seven matches, their latest being 10 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: against the spring Box at the weekend. So what are 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: the issues facing his side? Is there an easy fix 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: or is this a sign of longer term issues for 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: rugby in this country. Well, today on the Front Page 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: we are joined by Newstalk zb's sports news director Clay 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: Wilson to help us unpack the low Clay, what do 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: you make of the All Blacks result at the weekend? 17 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's got to be concerning is probably a strong word, 18 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 2: but at least there's got to be some level of 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: worry about where the team is that right, A new coach, 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: a kind of new era after the last year's World Cup, 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: and they've now lost three of the last four games. 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: I think the big concern that's come out of that 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: is that these are games that the All Blacks could 24 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 2: have won, got themselves in positions to win, and haven't 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 2: been able to finish those games off. So there's clearly 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: a part of the big part of the All Blacks 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 2: game that they need to fix. And this is a 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: team that's been so dominant for so long in this sport. 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: You know, we don't tolerate losses that well when it 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: comes to this team. So yeah, there's certainly lots to 31 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: come out of it. I'm sure lots that we'll get 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: into about where the team is at and what can 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: be done going forward. 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: As you say, the All Blacks have been so dominant 35 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: in the past, is it fair to say they've lost 36 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: a little bit of that aura about them now? 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: I think that is fair to say, But I think 38 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: that's happened in the past before. I think sometimes there's 39 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: this perception that the All Blacks have been the dominant 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: team in rugby forever, going all the way back to 41 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: when William Webbel has picked the ball up and ran 42 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: with it, which to me is just not true. Like 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: these things come in cycles. And while the All Blacks 44 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 2: have been probably for a lot of people in their 45 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: memory more often than not, the dominant team, that hasn't 46 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: always been the case. And maybe this is just one 47 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: of those periods where now they're not the dominant team. 48 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: South Africa are clearly a very good team. Ireland have 49 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: been a good team for a while and times have 50 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: kind of changed. But yeah, I think they have lost 51 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: that aura. And there's an element too for me of 52 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: society changing. You know, thirty forty fifty years ago, the 53 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: world was different and the All Blacks was such a 54 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 2: huge part of who we were as New Zealanders. There's 55 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: so much more to the world now, the digitization of 56 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: how life is, social media, all these things, and also 57 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 2: options for sports in this country. So I think all 58 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: that contributes to perhaps this aura that the team once 59 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: had not quite being what it was. But of course, 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 2: when you lose games, if you're a team that's seen 61 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: is invincible, then maybe you're not so quite so invincible anymore. 62 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: For your Blacks. And for the first time for your Blacks, 63 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 3: those four. 64 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: Straight to the old four, now this is the third 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: lass and seven matches for the All Blacks, the first 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: under new coach Robertson. What's he had to say about 67 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: these results? 68 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: From what I've heard, he's acknowledged that it isn't good enough. 69 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: He believes that the team isn't far away and the 70 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: results and the performances reflect that. Really, that opinion is 71 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: that they've been in positions to win these games that 72 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: they've lost and haven't won them. So and also South Africa, 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty clean out the best team in 74 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: the world. And if you're getting close against the best 75 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: team of the world and not playing your best, maybe 76 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: that's a sign that you know things aren't so bad. 77 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 2: But the for the All Blacks is winning. We expect 78 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 2: the All Blacks to win every game, and when they don't, 79 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 2: there's clearly something not quite right. So I think he 80 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 2: acknowledges that, and I think he's now coming to grips 81 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 2: with the reality of coaching this team right. He's been 82 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: someone who's been floated as a coach for this team 83 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: for so long, has had so much success at the 84 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: level below, and now it's the reality of doing the 85 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: job and that's starting to sink in a bit. So 86 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 2: it'll be very interesting to see how he goes forward 87 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: and how the team responds to this position they're in. 88 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 3: We're talking about being proud of all our efforts and 89 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 3: how much care and what we did physically and stuff, 90 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: but the Blue Juessey demands the best of us and 91 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: then finishing what we've created. So small margins tist fully, 92 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 3: some great things to see, but not the result. 93 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: As you say, Scott Robertson has had so much success 94 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: with the Crusaders. How much of a different beast though? 95 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: Is it coaching a national site? 96 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think he's finding that out now, and that's 97 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: not to say he won't go on and successful coach 98 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: at this level and a successful coach of this team. 99 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 2: But he had such a long period with the Crusaders 100 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: and so much success, but no real international coaching experience. 101 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: He coached the junior or Blacks, the New Zealand under 102 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: twenty team, but nothing at senior international level, whereas his 103 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: predecessor in Foster was an assistant coach for this All 104 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: Black team for a long time, so it was embedded 105 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: in an international senior men's team environment. Some people might 106 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: say it's not that big a step up, but it 107 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: really it's different. And when you play a team like 108 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 2: the spring Box at Allis Park or at Newlands like 109 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: they did at the weekend, that's when you find out 110 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: the difference between playing at Super rugby level and playing 111 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 2: at an international level. So he is clearly a good coach. 112 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: He wouldn't have run won seven Super Rugby titles in 113 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: a row without being a good coach. But it is 114 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: a step up and there's different pressures that come with it. 115 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: The game is different at the international level, so perhaps 116 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: he's starting to maybe not find that out. I think 117 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: he probably is something he expected, but now being able 118 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: to deal with it is a different thing. And like 119 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: I said, it's going to be very interesting to see 120 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: how he goes forward from here now that perhaps might 121 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: have known this was one of the scenarios that it 122 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: might not have all gone to plan right at the 123 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: Star and now he's right in the middle of it. 124 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Ian Foster had this international experience that 125 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Scott Robertson didn't. But he had a rocky start to 126 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: two losses and one draw in his first seven matches. 127 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: He went on to face this immense pressure or backlash 128 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: from the public. Do you think Inzidar is concerned by 129 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: what's happening given the whole sarget that went on to 130 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: replace Foster. 131 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, well this is one of the very interesting parts 132 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: of it, right. There was so much support for Robertson 133 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 2: and Zider even had Scott Robertson lined up to replace 134 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: Foster before they won that game in Johannesburg in twenty 135 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: twenty two. Yeah, I think I think concerned at ends 136 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 2: to a certain extent. These two games come up against Australia. 137 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: They'll want to win both those games and that if 138 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: they don't, I think then maybe we'll see Well we 139 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: won't see it, but I would be surprised if there 140 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: isn't some real concern at New Zealand Rugby. There was 141 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: so much public support for Scott Robertson, so much goodwill 142 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 2: at New Zealand Rugby to get him into his job, 143 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 2: and now it's not quite going to plan. But like 144 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: you said, the same with n Foster. Not everyone starts 145 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: out just just winning every game. I'm sure they'll be 146 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: talking about it at New Zealand Rugby and probably at 147 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 2: the stage trying to find ways to help him. But yeah, 148 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: when you're a company which New Zealand Rugby is or 149 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: an organization. It's employed someone who came in with so 150 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 2: much hype and now things aren't quite going to plan. 151 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: There's got to be some level of concern when they 152 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: sit around the boardroom table. I'm sure. 153 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 3: He missed. He missed the bus because he missed a 154 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 3: transport to the bus and that was it, and he 155 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: apologized to the group. Mostly it was just it was 156 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 3: a misunderstanding. It was simple as that. So I can't 157 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: say anymore. The Big Sea did a great job, you know, 158 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 3: I keeping if he's a curfew broken and there's no 159 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: care for you. It was just a bus. 160 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: Robertson's got a slightly different style to Foster. He didn't 161 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: hold Damien McKenzie up to previous standards for missing the 162 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: team's bus to the airport, and then assistant coach Lee 163 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: On McDonald and Ham parted ways after just five tests. 164 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 4: They were friends who became rivals, then workmates and now 165 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 4: ex colleagues. Leon McDonald is out as All Black's assistant 166 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 4: coach after just five games following disagreements with Scott Robertson. 167 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: How bad of a look is this on top of 168 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: these losses? 169 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: I feel like it's more perception than any kind of real, 170 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: real impact within the team. It's hard to say these 171 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 2: things like Leo McDonald leaving the coaching team is so 172 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: big nowadays, how much impact does that head on the 173 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: team losing these last two games since he's gone. Sure, 174 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 2: these things are unsettling, but to me in terms of 175 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 2: the impact of the team on the field, I don't 176 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: think it plays a huge part. And then going on 177 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: to lose these games. Damien McKenzie, I guess it's just 178 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: a different approach to how Scott Robinson wants to handle 179 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: these things. But the players these days are they deal 180 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: in high pressure environments constantly. That's what their job is. 181 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 2: Things like this, while they might be unsettling for a 182 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: few hours or a day or two, these players are 183 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,959 Speaker 2: very good at just being able to put that stuff 184 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: in the background and focus on what they paid to do, 185 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: which is be good rugby players. 186 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: There's become a bit of a pattern here. I've read 187 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: some stats that the All Blacks haven't scored a try 188 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: in the last quarter for the last four matches. Is 189 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 1: the problem that they're sailing to finish. 190 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 2: If not the biggest problem, it's one of the biggest 191 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 2: problems this team currently has, like you say, unable to 192 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: score points in the last quarter of and that's not 193 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 2: what we've come to know from the All Blacks as 194 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: a team. You think about the two World Cups that 195 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 2: they won and that group of players they had. Not 196 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 2: only was it a great starting fifteen, but the All 197 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: Blacks were renowned for having this bench that comes on 198 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 2: and just takes away anything from other teams in the 199 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: last quarter of games. And now it's South Africa that 200 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: has that advantage and the All Blacks are struggling in 201 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: that department. And reality is rugby is an eighty minute game. 202 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: You can be great for sixty five or seventy minutes, 203 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 2: as the All Blacks were, especially in the fe Test 204 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 2: in South Africa, but if you don't finish the game off, 205 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: you're going to lose against other good teams. Because it's 206 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 2: such small margins between these top teams, it is a 207 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: massive problem. What do they do about it. They tried 208 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: to juggle around their lineup a bit for the weekends 209 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 2: game in Cape Town. That didn't work. So maybe it's 210 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 2: a mentality thing. The players are not quite attuned or 211 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 2: have the confidence in the last part of these games 212 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: to be able to go and do it, and that's 213 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: not an easy fixer. I mean, I don't know what 214 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: the answer is to that, other than continuing to adjust 215 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 2: the lineup. Do they talk about it much? Do they 216 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: avoid talking about it? But it clearly is, like I say, 217 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: if not the biggest problem, one of the biggest issues 218 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: that the team needs to remedy before they're going to 219 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: be competitive and be able to get back to winning 220 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 2: games consistently against these top teams. 221 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: You spoke previously about how there's so much going on 222 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: in the world now there are a lot of options 223 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: for sports for kids that perhaps we didn't have in 224 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: the day. Is that part of the issue that we 225 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: don't have the depth of players coming through now? In part? 226 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: Maybe I think it would be true that perhaps the 227 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 2: depth of player isn't quite there, But I still think 228 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 2: New Zealand is essentially a rugby nation at its course 229 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 2: still and the players that are coming through are still 230 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 2: very very good players capable of making this team the 231 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 2: best team in the world at rugby at a junior 232 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: level has now been overtaken by the likes of football 233 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: and basketball. It's impossible to think that doesn't have an 234 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: impact at the final end, right I still think the 235 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: players are there to win these kind of games, to 236 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: make the All Blecks the kind of dominant team that 237 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: they have been for so long. To me something like that, 238 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: the impacts of that are perhaps not going to be 239 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: seen until a little bit later, if we ever see them. 240 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 2: Right now, it's more an issue about what the team's 241 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 2: doing preps, how they're being coached, maybe to a certain example. 242 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 1: Another interesting result at the weekend when Argentina beats Australia. 243 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 5: Sixty Argentina a record sixty seven to twenty seven thrashing, 244 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 5: scoring fifty points in the second half alone. New Zealand 245 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 5: and Australia for the time being battling it out to 246 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 5: the championship Wooden Spoon. The last time that happened fifteen 247 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 5: years ago. How times have. 248 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: Changed, Other teams in countries simply becoming better at rugby 249 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: and therefore the margin is closing. 250 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think these are things that also come 251 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 2: about in cycles. Teams aren't always on the same level 252 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 2: at the same time. At the moment we're seeing South 253 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 2: Africa are in a very good patch of their kind 254 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: of rugby history, that the team is very good, that 255 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: the running World champions they've bet the All Blacks four 256 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: times in a row, and like where the All Blacks 257 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 2: a struggling a little bit, the Australian side is struggling 258 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: a lot. Argentina has risen. But I think overall, the 259 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: competitiveness of the World game it's much more even, it 260 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: is closer. Other teams have they caught up probably, yeah, 261 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 2: they have caught up, and the All Blacks have maybe 262 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: just plateaued and a team like South Africa has continued 263 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: to improve innovate a little bit more perhaps than the 264 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: All Blacks have. Yeah, that's I think that's the reality 265 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: of how these cycles of a sport goes, is that 266 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 2: sometimes team's going to be dominant, you know, the opposition 267 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: are going to catch up and then do you do 268 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: you then go to another level or does another team 269 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: your mental in at the moments that Africa has taken 270 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: that mental the All Blacks once had. 271 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: So we haven't become worse as a national side. We've 272 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: just placed owed, is what you're saying. 273 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: I think, so, I think you know, I mean, look 274 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 2: at the position the team's got themselves into in these games, 275 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 2: these last two tests, especially in South Africa against the 276 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: World Champions. You don't get yourself in those positions if 277 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 2: you're not a good team. But the margins, like we 278 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: spoke about, are so small that if you're not quite 279 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: what you used to be, or you're not quite at 280 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: the best in the game, you're going to lose in 281 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: those last ten to fifteen minutes. And that's what's happening 282 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: all right. 283 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: Just finally, are there any immediate changes that can be 284 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: done to turn things around for this side? Or has 285 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Robertson stumbled into some longer term issues with rugby in 286 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: this country and will that take some time to fix? 287 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: I think for him now it's maybe about experimenting a 288 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: little bit, and that's difficult to say because the team's 289 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 2: been losing and you want to win games. They now 290 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 2: have two tests against Australia and Australia got almost seventy 291 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 2: points put on them over the weekend. Like you mentioned 292 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: by Argentina, if you can't win both those games then 293 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 2: that's a real worry. But there has to be something 294 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: done in terms of how they rejig the lineup. Do 295 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: they go for youth. There's a lot of good, promising 296 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 2: young players coming through in the squad. This is the 297 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 2: first year of a World Cup cycle. If you're going 298 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 2: to give these players opportunities, now is the time to 299 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: do it. But of course he's trying to juggle that 300 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: with making sure that you don't lose any more games. Yeah, 301 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: outside of that, what do you do? There might be 302 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 2: something they can do to help build their confidence in 303 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: terms of off the field these losses that have come 304 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: because of poor finishes to games. That's got to be 305 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: in some part due to where the teams at mentally, 306 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 2: where the confidence levels are at. But what do you 307 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: do apart from move a few pieces around and try 308 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: and reset and then go again. It's well timed that 309 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 2: they're playing two tests against Australia because like I say, 310 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: Australia aren't certainly not at their best at the moment, 311 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: and the two games you should win, both in Australia 312 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: and here in New Zealand. Then maybe if they can 313 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 2: get a couple of wins under their belt, it's that 314 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: confidence that they're that little bit of comp and are 315 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 2: lacking might come back, because then they go on an 316 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 2: interview tour. But I've got five tests that are all 317 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 2: going to be very challenging, and you know you've got 318 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 2: if you have seven tests lists left in the year. 319 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: You don't want to lose too many more when you've 320 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: already lost three to start the season, do you. So? 321 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 2: Maybe it's just a confidence then getting a couple of 322 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: wins against the Wallabies on the board, and then and 323 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: then that that might set them, set them away, and 324 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: prep Scott Robertson can finally sort of get to momentum 325 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 2: as the new coach of this team. 326 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: Well, let's hope. So thanks for joining us, Clay. That's 327 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: it for this episode of the Front Page. You can 328 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at 329 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: zet Herald dot co dot enz. The Front Page is 330 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: produced by Ethan Sells Dan Goodwin as a sounder engineer. 331 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: I'm Susie Nordquist. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio 332 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 333 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.