WEBVTT - Episode 21: What is Dyspraxia? 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.560 So if you were to teach me, I'll show you so. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.119 And I'm at aut Millennium Gym on Auckland's north shore 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:14.280 with personal trainer Bailey Garnum. Bailey competed in Olympic weightlifting 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.160 for years and he's teaching me to do something I've 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.680 only ever seen weightlifters do on the telly. The clean 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:21.680 and jerk. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:24.160 People have different handricks. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:28.319 Pretty yeah, what we would do is have a little 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.160 bit of a gap starting between your shim and the bar. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.839 Bailey has dyspraxia and dysgraphia, neurodevelopmental conditions which make a 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.639 lot of basic life tasks really challenging. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.199 So what that does is backed up, tight up. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.640 But this is a young guy who thrives on a 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.839 challenge and he loves lifting really really heavy weights. 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.040 If you're doing a snatch and Olympic weightlifting, you're thinking, right, 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.840 I'm going to put one hundred killers, bove my head 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.520 and jump under this bar as strong and as hard 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.320 and as fast as possible. Why the heck would I 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.759 want to do this? Like a heavy squat, you can 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.440 feel the amount of weight on your back and you're like, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.360 if I don't do this properly, I may get crushed 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.039 and you think, why am I doing this? And you go, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.399 you know, the nerves kicking. Okay, this is why I'm 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.120 doing it, just because get that feeling. 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:32.600 The adrenaline rush, the adrenaline rush. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:36.600 I'm diving into the complex and fascinating world of neurodiversity. 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.520 I'm not an expert, but my daughter is neurodivergent, and 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.520 a few years ago I was diagnosed with ADHD. In 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.920 this series, you'll hear from experts and from many wonderful 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.600 people who experience the world in a unique way. We're 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:56.640 looking at neurodiversity from the inside. Gelda. I'm Sonya Gray, 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:07.560 and this is no such thing as normal. Series two. 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:14.440 Dyspraxia also known as developmental coordination disorder, previously known as 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:18.679 clumsy child syndrome. My daughter in Nes was diagnosed with 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.080 dyspraxia as a seven year old. She has challenges with 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.680 coordination and things like tying shoelaces took her a really 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.960 long time. But the effect is much broader. Like so 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.639 many you're a divergent conditions, what we're seeing is just 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.880 the tip of the iceberg. Dyspraxic people often struggle with 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.320 sport and so they opt out of physical activity really 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.080 early on. But Bailey Garnon wants to change that. He 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.200 reckons it's not that they can't do sport. In fact, 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.040 it's the best thing for dyspraxia, he says, often they 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:58.360 just need to be taught in a different way. So 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:00.680 you've just taken me through a little bit of the 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.639 beginning of learning how to do the lean and jerk. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:10.000 It's amazing how much balance plays into it. But for 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:15.600 you as a dysprexic, balance can be tricky. So you 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.520 kind of entered into a sport that you've already got 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.640 a disadvantage, I guess. So tell me about that and 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.680 how hard it was to learn and why you persisted. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:31.520 The environment of the gym we had was just like 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:33.760 it was incredible. You just see these strong girls and 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.560 guys just lifting these weights and the banging of the plates, 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.400 and I just love the environment. And I think because 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.360 Mike was doing it, here's the reason why I stuck 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:43.720 it out. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:48.240 Mike is mike' schofield who's now with High Performance New Zealand. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.800 He's the coach of Meddi Witshy, our fabulous shot putterer 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.280 who won a silver medal at the Paris Olympics. Mike 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.720 was in his early twenties when he started coaching Bailey, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.800 and when he found out about the dysprexia, might learn 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.960 everything he could about the neurodevelopmental condition. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.440 He went away and researched everything. What is it, what 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.640 are the symptoms? How have people responded? So he went 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.120 away and did that, and I was weak, like eleven 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.720 years old. I was. I was absolutely weak, couldn't do 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.320 a push up or anything. So my parents said to him, look, 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.200 can you train Bailey in the gym? So he was 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.400 my pt and we did two sessions a week. 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.600 In the beginning. Mike had his work cut out for him. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.279 The just braxia meant that really simple moves that most 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.240 of us pick up straight away did not come naturally 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:42.279 for Bailey, like a basic lunge. 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.360 So it took Mike, I think like three or four 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:46.920 months to teach me how to do a lunge. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:48.760 Three or four months. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.839 Yeah, to learn how to do just do a standard 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.760 body weight lunch. I don't know how he did it. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.640 When you think of a lunge, you know, you step out, 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.000 do you ben your back leave, do you ben your 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:02.159 front leg? What do you do you know. I had 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:04.800 to break it down and to step. Okay, how far 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:06.239 out do I step? Do I step? 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:06.400 This? 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.719 Word? It's my foot too close? Is it too far away? 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.600 I think I used to step too far into my midline, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.200 so it causes send a mass to go all wonky. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.400 But took me a long time to learn how to 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.159 do just a simple step out and lunge. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.159 Three or four months is a long time to be 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.360 able to successfully step forward and be in your front 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.800 leg without falling over. There are so many movements like 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.279 this in and out of a gym that are not 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.240 automatic for many people with dyspraxia, but the extra work 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.560 Bailey's had to put in over the years give them 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.120 something that other personal trainers may not have. 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.840 It's an awareness that will make him a really great 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.719 trainer for other people because he will be able to 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.200 analyze their lunge and if they're struggling with it in 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.200 some way, if they're losing their balance, then he might 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.560 have more insight as to why that's happening for them. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:00.600 That's really taxing having to know that stuff. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.520 Ellen Nathan is an occupational therapist who you might remember 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:08.560 from episode eleven of this podcast. She works with many 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:13.840 dyspraxic kids, and she says dyspraxia or DCD affects every 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.760 area of someone's life. It's much more than just not 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.559 being able to do a lunch. There are so many 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.080 daily activities at home, at work, and at school that 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.840 dyspraxic people have to consciously step through. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.680 You know, it's really hard having to think everything through 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.720 so cognitively. For some people, they just move their body 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.719 to get to the place they want to get to, 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.000 whereas there are people out there there's one in every class. 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.400 You know, every classroom has at least one dyspraxic kid 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:45.440 who picking up a pencil and writing their name is 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.200 not automatic. So it's very hard to pick up your 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.080 pencil and write your name while you're still trying to 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.719 plan your story. So they already step behind their peers. 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.640 By the end of the day, they're exhausted because they've 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.239 had to think through every step still at a cognitive level. 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.880 The exhaustion is real. I see it in my daughter 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.840 every day, and it's backed up by research. Brain scans 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.239 of dyspraxit kids have shown the neural mechanisms are firing 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.640 twice as fast. These kids are putting in double the 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.200 energy and focus just to walk, talk, pick up, open, close, throw, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:29.320 and so on. But what's behind these movement difficulties? My 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.240 daughter is dyspraxic, and when people ask me what does 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:37.960 that mean, I'm like, well, it still don't really understand it. 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:42.160 So I guess is it possible to sum up what 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:43.200 dyspraxia is. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:51.600 Dyspraxia is challenges with motor execution, so challenges with movement 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:56.920 that you have conscious control over, and it requires conscious control, 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.800 so it's not something that you're doing automatically. Yet people 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:06.320 who have dyspraxia are often struggling with movement and therefore 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:13.120 using more cognition around movement. Movement takes three stages to 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.280 come up with an idea, to plan how you're going 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.560 to execute that idea, and then to execute it. And 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.800 so dyspraxia or DCD, you can have a challenge in 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.679 any of those three areas or all of those three areas. 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.720 And it's not just the planning and execution that's tricky. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.079 There's also the problem of sensing and knowing where your 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:38.120 body is in relation to everyone and everything else. Allan 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.600 says that's the job of one of our biggest sensory 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:46.320 systems called proprioception. But if you're dyspraxic, the appropriate aceptive 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:49.319 receptors aren't always going to give you the right feedback. 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:54.559 People with dyspraxia don't have as much of that information 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.120 feeding back to them, so they don't necessarily know where 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:03.160 their body is is in space and time. So when 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:04.880 we don't know where our body is in space and 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.640 time because the proper aceptor of receptors aren't telling us. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:13.240 That's why dyspraxic people bang into doors, why they drop cups, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.120 why they may go to catch a ball and not 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:18.240 quite catch it properly, or go to throw it and 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.640 it drops before the person. They're not getting the same 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.880 amount of feedback from their muscles that tell them how 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.560 much effort or energy to put into the muscle to 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.400 affect whatever it is that they're trying to affect. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:39.040 Right, and so then developmental coordination disorder DCD, where does 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:39.560 that for them? 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:45.280 DCD is the term that was given to a certain 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:51.560 group of symptoms that's a very specific diagnosis. Some people 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.280 use the two interchangeably, so dyspraxia and DCD mean the 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.559 same thing. Also, depends what country you're in, so America 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:04.160 and the un are very different, and in the larger 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.320 community of clinicians working in this space, there's not even 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:10.800 agreement with these things, which is why it's so confusing. 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:17.760 I see, Okay, Honestly, the more you learn, the more 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:22.120 confusing it gets. What's important I think to know is 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.439 that in al tiodor, the official diagnosis for this condition 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:31.559 is DCD developmental coordination disorder. But if you say DCD, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.439 no one knows what you're talking about, which is why 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.760 dyspraxia is commonly used. But most people will hear dyspraxia 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.920 and think, oh, you mean dyslexia, and it's quite different. However, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.800 dyslexia and dyspraxia can co occur. You can see how 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.080 this is confusing, can't you. Co Occurring conditions are extremely 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.520 high with dyspraxia, so chances are there will be something 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:57.160 else going on. 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.720 I think when p people have multiple diagnoses, the other 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:07.560 diagnosis might end up with more airtime because there's either 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.120 more available, there's more funding, or people understand it better, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.319 and so sometimes you end up lumping your symptoms over 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.280 to the other one that more people understand because it's 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:16.880 tiring explaining it all the time. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.680 Bailey Garnum, the twenty four year old Olympic weightlifter and 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.280 personal trainer, doesn't get tired of talking about dyspraxia. In fact, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.520 he's passionate about it. He wants young dyspraxic and neurodivergent 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.600 kids to know that they can succeed in sport. It's 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.800 just finding the right sport, the right approach, and the 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.800 right people. As a kid, Bailey's ultimate dream was to 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.720 make it big as a cricketer. He loved cricket, but 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:46.880 cricket didn't always love him back. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:49.520 It always was, h I'm going to be a black cab. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.720 I'm going to be a black cab. And I would 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.280 try and try and try give him my best. You know, 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.160 Mom and Dad got me like a cricket coach. And 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.160 when I want cricket coach, which I did all these things, 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:06.240 and friends of mine who didn't take it as seriously 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.480 would get into the better teams and I was like, 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:11.840 I was, Mom and Dad, why am I? Why am 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.360 I not in the team? And you know, there'd be 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:20.960 a lot of anger, lash outs, And try my hardest 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.640 every practice and like, why can I do it? Why 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.120 can I do it? And at the time before he 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.200 knew dysphraxi and mom and dad were like, keep going, 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.080 We'll just keep going, We'll keep going. And then when 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.160 you got the diagnosis it made sense. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.960 For many kids who have coordination difficulties, by the age 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.280 of eleven or twelve, they've already decided I'm not good 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.720 at sport, you know, because in those first few years 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.720 it's all team ball games. They can't catch the ball 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.320 and stuff. You know, they might get a better jibbing 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.160 from school friends and they just go, you know what, 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:55.880 I don't want to do this. I'm just not sport 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.120 is not for me. And I feel like that might 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.439 be a big reason that you are quite an advocate, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:04.720 is it. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:09.480 I'd be the classic example of not liking team sports 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:14.560 or feeling like horrible playing team sports. I did ever then, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:19.080 touch rugby, cricket, water, polo, football, and none of it 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:19.840 stuck with me. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.440 So were you always the kid that wasn't quite up? 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.920 I was always the kid that marked the team up, 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.800 you know, Like I got the ball in touch rugby 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.640 and I ran outside the touchline and thought I was 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:37.079 getting to try and I just I never felt comfortable. 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.880 So let's say cricket. You played cricket. A lot of 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.439 cricket is about coordination, like one of the things as 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:48.400 a fellow cricket lover, whenever there's a high ball and 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.400 a player under it, I freak out for them because 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.480 it's like, I know they've done it a hundred times, 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.280 but it still don't know what the wind's going to do. 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.160 There's so much judgment in there. How were you under 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:00.720 the high ball? 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.680 I think I caught one right, right? 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.559 But yeah, you persisted with all these team sports. Did 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:07.520 you love sport? 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.240 I just loved I think I just loved sports. So 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.920 when I found weightlifting and I only had to rely 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.000 on me, my performance outcome was not down to a 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.880 coach's or other people, and. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.160 There wasn't the potential to let the team down. 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.160 No, it was just solely on me. 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.560 And it helped having a coach like Mike Schofield, who 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:37.200 patiently helped him master the basic lunge and then moved 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:38.680 him on to the serious stuff. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:44.600 He started introducing me into deadlifting, and one day I 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.320 was about twelve, we'd been doing it for a while, 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.840 and I did lifted one hundred kilos and he's like, oh, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.440 this kid's quite strong. And he goes, do you want 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.960 to come to at Millennium and I'm coaching people in 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:55.920 the Olympic weightlifting. 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:18.280 Dyspraxia or DCD is more common than you might think. 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.920 An estimated six to ten percent of the population have it. 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:27.360 Most have no idea, they never identified, but Bailey was lucky. 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:31.440 It was during a parent teacher interview in like year eight, 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.360 my art teacher said to my parents, she said, oh, 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.560 I think your son's got a learning disorder. And they 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.440 were like, what do you mean and she goes, well, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:43.040 the way your son's hand pattern is when he draws, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.880 there's something not correct and there's something not normal. 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:48.520 Yeah, to add to. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:50.520 Other kids, I recommend you go again on the. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:55.360 Test, okay. And had they noticed anything up to that point, No. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.000 I think mum and dad had thought there may be something, 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.800 but even in primary school, teachers to said, oh, he's 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.160 just the late learner. I find he'll get there in 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:05.520 the end. 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.800 So Bailey's parents took him for an assessment and he 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:12.440 was diagnosed with dysplexia and dysgraphia. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.040 And we're like, what the heck's of this? And then 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.760 when we started learning about it, it kind of made 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.880 a lot of it made sense as okay, so this 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:23.320 is why this is me happening. 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.760 I want to ask you about classic I don't want 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.600 to say symptoms, but maybe some of the things that 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:34.120 dysprexics can struggle with. Tying shoe lasses. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.560 Yes, yeap, huge one for me. It's fine motor skills 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:43.160 anything like writing for example, and exams. I'd have to 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.200 have read to writers, so I wouldn't know what to say, 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.480 but getting it out on paper, it just wouldn't. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:52.600 That connection wasn't there. 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:53.640 It would not work. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.120 And this is where dysgraphia comes into the picture. Disgraphia 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.240 is a specific learning difficulty with writing. It's a cousin 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.040 of dyslexia, which is officially known now as a specific 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.560 learning difficulty with reading. But back to dyspraxia. Fine motor 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.760 skills are often weak in dyspraxics and that makes writing 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:21.119 really difficult. So how does dysgraphia fit with dyspraxia? I 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:25.639 ask Allan, the occupational therapist, to help me understand the dishes. 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:34.200 Dysgraphia is specifically around translating ideas as written word or 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.480 as imagery. Can I draw a picture? If I want 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:38.560 to draw a giraffe? Can I draw a giraffe? I 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.960 may have an image in my head, but I cannot 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:45.440 translate that onto paper. Dyspraxia is kind of all movement, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.840 so gross motor, fine motor, all the life tasks, so 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.920 getting yourself dressed, doing up zips, brushing your teeth, brushing 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.960 your hair, throwing a ball, riding a bike, managing stairs, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.720 eating with an life and fork. That's all dysprasak that full. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:04.880 Can I affect the world the way that I want 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.399 to through motor movement? 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:13.359 Allen says dysgraphia and dyspraxia are distinct diagnoses, but like Bailey, 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:17.240 you can have both. And that presented many challenges for 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:18.280 Bailey as a child. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.040 So riding the bike was a big one. My granddad 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:23.840 taught me how to ride a bike twice. I learned it, 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.359 forgot it, then he retaught me how to learn it. 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:28.960 My parents, when I was younger, they would travel for 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.439 work in the school holidays, so I would spend a 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.880 lot of time with my grandparents. They lived in Lake 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:38.680 Talpo and there was this set of like monkey bars. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.160 I remember. It took a few holidays and me going 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:43.800 every day, and he would go every day with me 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.479 until we could get it, till I could complete this 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.119 kind of monkey bar circle. 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.360 Just having someone close to you that was patient, oh year. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.280 So he wasn't like, come on, Bailey, you're gonna get 0:18:57.280 --> 0:18:58.640 the baby. Other kid can do it. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:03.439 No, no, and no at all. But if I didn't 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:07.720 have the grandparents that I had, I don't know how 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:09.879 or what things would be like. 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.880 Now, having the right people in your corner makes all 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:18.359 the difference. Allan Nathan understands that well. She works with 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:22.119 some very young children. Many of them are really struggling, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.600 so she's developed techniques to tease out what might be 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:26.480 going on for them. 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:30.520 So one of the things that I do when I 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:33.000 go and meet kids and I'm doing various assessments that 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.320 might be for dispracts or it might not, I will 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.679 do a task that for their age should be automatic, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.640 like catching a ball, and I'll chat to them about 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.320 their day. What I'm testing is do they have automaticity 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.560 in those two skills? Can they automatically talk while catching 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.960 a ball? Because if they stop talking when they catch 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.000 the ball, that tells me that they've had to think 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.320 about that there's no room to talk and think at 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.719 the same time. It's one or the other. I remember 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.320 turning up to a school where there was a child 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.600 that was running away from school and really upset. My 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.800 teachers were really lost, and it was his first six 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.880 months at school. He was biting kids and I think 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:12.240 he'd broken another student's arm. That was pretty big. I 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:14.639 got in there to do an assessment and I was 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.520 just walking through the playground with him. Five year old boy. 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.800 He just could not walk and talk. He'd take a 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:22.880 few steps and he'd tell me something about his day 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.000 and he'd stopped walking. Then when I would start to talk, 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.160 he'd start walking again. And I was like, gosh, you're 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.520 five and a half. You're at school. You can't yet 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.960 walk and talk. These two things aren't automatic for you yet. 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:39.840 So when he comes in after lunch, he's so exhausted. 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.320 His body is tired and his brain is tired. He 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:46.480 wants to do the art activity, but he just can't. 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.080 He's got no spoons left to do that, and he 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:54.639 can't organize his thoughts into clear ideas. He can't articulate 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:58.200 those ideas in language, and then he's getting left behind, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.840 and you know, his peers are all doing full pages 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.920 of work and he's just scribbling through his book because 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.120 he can't hold a pen He can't hold a pencil, 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:12.040 he can't translate his ideas yet, oh my goodness, And 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.880 no one would see that. They're just saying behavior that's 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.679 putting other students at risk, which is putting other students 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:22.520 at risk. But he needed help. 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:26.239 I know, if you hadn't come in, how many other 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:27.679 people are going to pick up on that? 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:28.159 Really? 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:29.840 You know what I mean? 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:31.800 Yeah, it's really complex. 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.679 Dyspraxia is really complex because there is so much to 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.679 contend with every day, and because it can affect so 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.760 many things, fine motor skills, gross motor skills, perception, attention, 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:48.320 and speech. Many of the client's Bailey trains are dyspraxic, 0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.520 and he sees the full spectrum. 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:53.840 I trained one boy at the moment who's had a 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.480 very bad speech impermit, so he knows what he wants 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.400 to say, but then everything just gets jumbled up, which. 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.360 Must be so frustrating for him because it's all in there. 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:04.800 It just can't get it out. 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:08.600 It's just getting it out. So it's a huge spectrum. 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:11.760 That's why I think it's so unknown. It is because 0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.720 if you say, looked at me on face value, you'd go, well, 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:16.840 when he doesn't have just fraxi up. 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:21.719 It's well hidden, and the well hidden aspect makes it 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.760 even more difficult to explain to people that you are trying. 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.880 You have listened to instructions, you want to do it, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.879 you just can't. Was there ever a point that you 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:33.440 got frustrated and was like, I just can't do it. 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:34.160 I don't want to do it. 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:40.040 Yeah, lots of times. Yeah, through everything. Through cricket. You know, 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.399 if I got out, I'd throw my bat a curse. 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:45.800 I'd just pack a huge tantrum and be the same 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.280 in the gym. You know, just that level of frustration 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:50.560 builds up and you're. 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:53.040 Just like, I guess not something we talk about enough 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.560 because for you, in your mind, you can see it. Like, 0:22:56.880 --> 0:23:01.639 let's take cricket for example, you're batting. You can imagine 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.960 where you need to place your bat and you know, 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.320 placement of all that stuff, but your body is not 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.760 playing ball excuse the pun, and so the frustration with it. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:13.639 It's like, guys, I am really good. It's just that 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.880