1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:00,480
Speaker 1: Listen.

2
00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,120
Speaker 2: I've got to tell you about the New Zealand first

3
00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 2: Act online battle that's going on. But right now, first

4
00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 2: we'll deal with Barry Soper. It's quarter two Barry Soper,

5
00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:08,880
Speaker 2: Senior Political correspondence with us Alo Berry.

6
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,000
Speaker 3: Good afternoon, has So, Penny Nada, you were.

7
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,040
Speaker 2: Right, does actually appear to want the leadership?

8
00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 4: Well?

9
00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,480
Speaker 3: Yes, it's interesting, isn't it that he keeps sort of

10
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 3: batting in a way as Winston Peters was wont to

11
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 3: do when he was the MP for Taro.

12
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 2: But he doesn't.

13
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 3: Well, he's got to be the MP for Tamaki Makodo

14
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 3: first before he can probably become the leader of the

15
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,839
Speaker 3: Labor Party. But I can tell you I have it

16
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 3: on very good authority. It's impeccable authority that he has

17
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 3: touted himself as a future leader of the Labor Party.

18
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,159
Speaker 3: So you know, this man is driven by what he

19
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,199
Speaker 3: sees himself in the future as being is leading the

20
00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,360
Speaker 3: Labor Party, which I doubt in the current climate he

21
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:55,200
Speaker 3: would get to leave.

22
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 2: Why tell me why? Because can I can? I we

23
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400
Speaker 2: got into you weren't listening, but we got into a

24
00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 2: hole on the huddle yesterday where we started talking about

25
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,480
Speaker 2: who would lead Labor if Chippy was rolled, which is

26
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,560
Speaker 2: an inevitability at some stage, and we were picking winners,

27
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,680
Speaker 2: why can't it be Penny He's got the backing. I

28
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,600
Speaker 2: would have thought of Willie Jackson, who's got a lot

29
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:14,760
Speaker 2: of clous on the Labor Party.

30
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:15,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

31
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,000
Speaker 3: Look, Peni Henar is a really nice man. I personally

32
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 3: like him, but you know it's and this. They'll say

33
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,280
Speaker 3: I'm racist. Will He calls me a racist all the

34
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 3: time anyway. But I think at the moment, given the

35
00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,280
Speaker 3: current climate, for Labor to get on the track of

36
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 3: electing Penni Henar as their leader would be a big

37
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 3: problem for them. When you've got the mad carping from

38
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:39,720
Speaker 3: the sideline.

39
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 2: Which surely it neutralizes the Maori Party, you've got the

40
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 2: mar The person who become the first could become the

41
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 2: first Maori Prime minister of the country.

42
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,720
Speaker 3: I don't know whether the public would warm to that idea,

43
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 3: but look early in twenty twenty four, just after Labour's defeat,

44
00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 3: Henane told Q and A he was asked often about

45
00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,240
Speaker 3: up becoming the Labor leader.

46
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, people do ask me sort of, maybe every once

47
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,000
Speaker 1: a week or twice week. Maybe a lot of fun,

48
00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:10,800
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. But look, I appreciate I've been

49
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: in politics now for coming up ten years. I consider

50
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,520
Speaker 1: myself a senior member of the Labor Party. But as

51
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,160
Speaker 1: I've always maintained, I support Chris Sipkins. We've got a

52
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,400
Speaker 1: lot of work to do as a party for me. Look,

53
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm like I say, I consider myself a senior leader

54
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,560
Speaker 1: in our team, and I'll be there to play my partner.

55
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

56
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 2: I bet you were not suggesting before that the public

57
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't warm to having a Maori prime minister, were you.

58
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,720
Speaker 3: Yes, I was because of what's been going on in Parliament,

59
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 3: and certainly Willie Jackson doesn't endeare yourself to having a

60
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,240
Speaker 3: Maori leader. Neither, I would imagine, unfortunately, would.

61
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 2: Pen I would have thought that Penie's biggest problem actually

62
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,040
Speaker 2: is that he comes out with wacky policies like one of.

63
00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,079
Speaker 3: The patches back that's making policy on the hoof, isn't

64
00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:58,639
Speaker 3: it when it comes to a barlection. I don't know

65
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 3: whether gave a great deal thought to that.

66
00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 2: Well, he doubled down on it. Well, yes, so he's

67
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,639
Speaker 2: maybe a bit radical for people.

68
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't think the public would warm too

69
00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 3: him being the leader.

70
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 2: All right, now, what did you make of those those

71
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 2: tanks and drones?

72
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I thought the point was made to

73
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,720
Speaker 3: the political scientist earlier that well, wasn't New Zealand invited?

74
00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 3: I mean, we had John Key and Helen Clark there,

75
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 3: and it was Helen Clark's government which, of course negotiated

76
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 3: the free trade agreement with China, the first with the West.

77
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 3: And John Key had the good fortune of coming into

78
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,880
Speaker 3: power in two thousand and eight during the global financial crisis,

79
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,560
Speaker 3: but right at the time that we were getting the

80
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 3: benefits of the Chinese free trade agreement, so you know,

81
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 3: he can be thankful for that. And I thought it

82
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 3: was good that they were both there. But look, I

83
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: think New Zealand is seen as being embraced more by America.

84
00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,600
Speaker 3: And interestingly, Winston Peters is an extraordinarily good foreigeign minister.

85
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 3: But when he was Foreign Minister Helen Clark, the signing

86
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 3: of that agreement, he raised eyebrows in Beijing. I was

87
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,160
Speaker 3: there by not being there at the signing ceremony, so

88
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 3: you know they will look at that as well and

89
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 3: see that you know, our foreign minister is Winston Peters.

90
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 3: I'm not saying they wouldn't issue an invitation because of that.

91
00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,120
Speaker 3: But you know, it is to me quite interesting why

92
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,239
Speaker 3: we weren't invited in that military parade. What a magnificent

93
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 3: spectacle that was. I mean it was absolutely.

94
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,839
Speaker 2: Won't be saying that when it's aimed at Taiwan. Well,

95
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 2: you know it's magnificent.

96
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 3: You know, barriers was set up for the locals. You

97
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,799
Speaker 3: couldn't watch it. And I've bent to Tenem and Square

98
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,800
Speaker 3: on a number of occasions, and they were kept a

99
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 3: block back, and all they could say it was on

100
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 3: livestream television. And they released eighty thousand pigeons, eighty thousand balloons.

101
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 3: You can imagine what Beijing must have been like. It

102
00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,280
Speaker 3: must have been an absolute spectacle.

103
00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 2: Berry would they do us? It's between doves and pigeons, I.

104
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 3: Know, but no, I've been told they were pigeons.

105
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,120
Speaker 2: They were duves, like peace doves. We're going to check

106
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,600
Speaker 2: this fact because this is not flying rats. Well misinformed

107
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,160
Speaker 2: if they were dubs, very really quickly tell me what's

108
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,799
Speaker 2: happened here with Seymour versus Swarbrick.

109
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,480
Speaker 3: Well, it'll be really quick because I've missed Chloe Swarbrick

110
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 3: this week. And then I got my fizz this morning

111
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 3: when she was debating David Seymour on the foreign buyers

112
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 3: once again being allowed to buy top end houses in

113
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,000
Speaker 3: this country. Seymour clearly got under her wick when he

114
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,800
Speaker 3: was lauding the policy of a listen.

115
00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 5: Two days ago, I was down just here in the

116
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:45,279
Speaker 5: Auckland CBD. I was with a couple of businesses that

117
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 5: have a number of homelessness. This is the investment that

118
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,440
Speaker 5: we're talking about, right. Some of these people they say, look,

119
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,120
Speaker 5: actually I want to come to New Zealand a bit

120
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,960
Speaker 5: more long term. I think I might invest in a

121
00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 5: few more businesses, I might do some philanthropy and conservation.

122
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,120
Speaker 5: And then you say, okay, well you know, maybe maybe

123
00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:03,159
Speaker 5: you'd like to buy a home.

124
00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:03,400
Speaker 1: Now.

125
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,400
Speaker 5: If I was on the opposition right now, this is

126
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 5: one where I'd actually say no, no, that one's good.

127
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,920
Speaker 5: I'm going to welcome that. But as we've just heard,

128
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,680
Speaker 5: we've just got this reflex of SoundBite politics that ain't

129
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 5: taking anyone anywhere.

130
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,719
Speaker 4: This is about the kind of economy that we get

131
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,599
Speaker 4: to choose to create the conditions of as politicians. That

132
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 4: is not sustainable, it is not fair, and it is

133
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 4: not the old edo in New Zealand that I believe

134
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 4: most New Zealanders believe in.

135
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,400
Speaker 2: So there, mister so Barry, thank you very much, very so,

136
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 2: for senior political correspondence. For more from Hither Duplessy, Allen Drive,

137
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 2: listen live to news Talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

138
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,799
Speaker 2: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio