1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,559 Speaker 1: We've got a new numbers out this morning that show 2 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: the trouble we have in parts of the education system. 3 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: As far as international students go. Primary and high school 4 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: enrollments are down some twenty two percent on pre COVID levels. 5 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: Tertiary providers like your polytechs, not your unis, but your 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: polytechs have seen their numbers have from one hundred and 7 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: six thousand to fifty six thousand now. Doctor Sandra Gray 8 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: is Tertiary Education Union National Secretary and is with a CenTra. 9 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: Very good morning to. 10 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 2: You, Good morning night. 11 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: What are you Rickons going on here? Because last time 12 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: I did an interview on the unis, the UNI say 13 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: pretty much we're back on the internationals. What's gone wrong 14 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: in the other parts of the sector. 15 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: Look, I think there's a number of things we have 16 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: to look at. The universities are studying tech growth. As 17 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: you say, post COVID, it did cause huge disruption for 18 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: our sector and huge destruction for the international students in 19 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: our polytechnics. Of course, since COVID we've had major reforms 20 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 2: which have made the polytechnics really disrupted, real disruption to 21 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: the courses office, real disruption for the and that confuses students. 22 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 2: That causes real issues of students who are looking to 23 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: study and they go, well, if I can't figure it out, 24 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: I'll go somewhere else. And that's what international students do. 25 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: Do we have a reputation problem generally? 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: Do you think New Zealand Tertory education institutions rank really 27 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: well internationally? There is no doubt that we rank within 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: the top five hundreds for universities. Our polytechnic students win 29 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: world games and skills and trades consistently, so we don't 30 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 2: have a reputation problem. I think what we have is 31 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: a lack of direction problem for our polytechnics. The fact 32 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: that we saw the last government and now this government 33 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: continually reforming and changing just makes it too hard an 34 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: environment for anyone to understand. Staff are leaving great numbers, yes, 35 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 2: and now we see students leaving in great numbers. So 36 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: you know, if you disrupt a sector continuously, nobody wants 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: to join you. 38 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: How do we then explain primary and secondary schools because 39 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: they haven't been up disrupted. 40 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: Have they? Well again, COVID totally disrupted that and it 41 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: takes a long while for parents to go I'm keen 42 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: for my children, my young people to go overseas. It 43 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 2: does take time to build back. Even the universities aren't 44 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 2: back to where they used to be, they're certainly growing 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: and there's certainly plans to do that. I think what 46 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: we've got to do there is just accept that it 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: is going to take a few more years, not to 48 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: rush it because that will harm our reputation. And I 49 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 2: am going to say in terms of the overall reputation 50 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: of New Zealand as a place to study, we are 51 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: seeing cuts the staffing and staff leaving, which means there 52 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: are more students to every staff member. If we don't 53 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: address that, that will harm our reputation. 54 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: Well, So Sandra, appreciate your time. Doctor Sandra graam Tertiary 55 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: Education Union secretary with us this morning. For more from 56 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: the mi Casking Breakfast, listen live to news talks that'd 57 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.