WEBVTT - Remembering Nigel Latta–Money, Kids, and the Long Conversation 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.040 Today on Shared Lunch, we're taking a moment to remember 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:06.120 Nigel Latter, who passed away last week at the age 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:09.920 of fifty eight. As most New Zealanders know, Nigel was 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:14.520 a true Kiwi icon, someone who tackled urgent, complex topics 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.799 with curiosity, honesty, and warmth. As an author and a broadcaster, 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:23.279 he made psychology and big national issues feel relatable and real. 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.120 Nigel made time for everyone, including us, and we're grateful 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.480 to have had the chance to talk with him. Today 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.559 we're resharing that conversation as a tribute to Nigel with 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.199 his personal and thoughtful reflections on how to talk to 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.440 kids and faro about money and connecting those conversations to 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.599 what really matters our values. 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.080 So thanks so much for Green to have a yarn 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:47.960 to me about kids and money and all that fun stuff. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:49.280 Do you want to tell us a bit about you 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:50.919 and what your interests are? 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:53.240 I never ever expected to be on Telly, like I 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:55.720 grew up in the east coast of South Oland. It's 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:57.480 like I don't know, like it was just I don't 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.280 list all. A lot of us is mysteriou to me 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:05.399 how any of this happened, but so so for me 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.200 it's kind of like, so most people kind of know 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.080 me from that point where I started doing the Tally stuff, 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.480 but I like twenty something years of doing clinical stuff 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:13.560 before that, and so most of my clinical work was 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:16.319 kind of teenagers and families and they're sort of what 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:17.840 used to be suspects now that I rang out to 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.240 Mariki stuff in prisons and sort of all of that, 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:23.520 and so I kind of come out of that and 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:27.479 then into TV like literally everything that we ever makes 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.759 me going, I don't know anything about this thing. I'm 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.480 going to go and talk to some people who know, 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.440 and then I basically just go around asking questions because 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.240 I don't know what's going on. But still somehow people 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.360 think that's me saying I know stuff, and like no, 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.080 I'm really not, Like I'm literally just bumbling about the 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:44.000 place chatting to people who do know stuff, which is 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.560 actually that's the best part of it. I guess, like 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:49.400 if I really think about the stuff that interests me, 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.600 it's like it really is about how do you I 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.080 understand people and what's going on with people? And then 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.680 it's like how do you take that sort of complicated 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.560 stuff and simplify and make it easier for people? To understand. 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.200 And that's where Tally's really good. Like, I think a 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.640 lot of psychologists get really anxious about doing media stuff 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:06.360 because they think, oh, I can't give a full nuanced 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.600 answer this really complicated question. And it's like, well, no 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.040 you can't. Like so you can't you can't cover them 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.000 off because you'll get twenty or thirty seconds and they'll 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:17.320 cut you out. But I think what we can do is, 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.040 I think it is really important to be kind of 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:24.120 actively trying to help people to understand stuff. And what 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.960 doing TALLY is really greater at is you have to 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.040 make really complicated things simple. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.240 You're obviously very in tune with parents and families from 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.400 a lot of your research and know you have looked 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:38.520 into money and children and yeah those dynamics too. Yeah 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.040 what lengths did you have to go to kind of 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:40.880 explore that topic. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.280 Yeah, So we made the kind of mind of a 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:45.799 money show a few years ago an Shua Kiwi bank 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:48.160 definitely Qui Bank great. They would just said, here's a 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.120 bunch of money. You guys know what you're doing, make 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:51.600 a TV show. So it was really good. We kind 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.720 of talk about like the secret engine, so you have 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.240 to have some kind of intellectual kind of secret engine 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.720 basis to the content that you're talking about, and then 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.000 try to make that kind of interesting for people. So 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:05.120 we started thinking about this idea of kind of money personalities, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:06.840 and there is some stuff around that that you know 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.280 there some of us are more about security, and some 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.600 of us more about experiences, and some of us, you know, 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.280 money is about freedom, it's about the social stuff. And 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.440 so money is just like what we do with their 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.960 money fundamentally just reflects the values of who we are. 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.120 I mean, like I say, some people they just can't 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:24.240 say because it's like they just want that dopamine rush 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:27.960 of stuff. So it's like there are understanding I think 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.120 your kind of money personality. And again, like I think 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.840 that taps a lot into kind of temperament, and it 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:35.680 taps a lot into kind of your kind of values 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.680 and how you see the world. But that's another thing, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:41.960 getting humans to think long term, to think about the future, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:43.800 and that's really hard because we're not used to that. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:49.160 We're made for, you know, basically prehistoric times. We've got 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.720 these one hundred thousand, maybe two hundred thousand year old brains. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.120 We're doing enormously complicated stuff with them. But they're still 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.600 the same old brains. So they struggle with imagining the 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.360 future and these really abstract kind of concepts because you know, 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:05.960 they're more likely to be caught by you know, the 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.520 little aptic go is bing, you've got three coins? Did 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.320 I all amazing? 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.480 Do you know say that's complicated for humans? Do you 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.159 wonder if it's in some ways easier for kids without 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:19.200 dreaming about the future of what could come next? 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:20.760 I think the children what you can do is you 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:22.919 can kind of model stuff, and you can start to 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.320 set up some habits and things, and so, you know, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.279 for a lot of people, like I kind of grew 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.640 up on a house where we never really talked about money, 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.760 Like it wasn't a thing that anyone ever talked about, 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.080 and so I didn't really have any understanding of that 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:36.640 kind of stuff. And it was because you know, like 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.760 my dad was a builder and my mom was a mum, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.240 and it was just like their world was you work 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.120 your money and then you spend it on stuff. And 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:47.200 so like I remember, like as a young man reading 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.600 that Richard Kiyosaki rich Dad, poor Dad thing and thinking, man, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.600 this passive income stuff, this sounds pretty good, Like I 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.960 want me some of that, but like that wasn't stuff 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.440 that I ever learned, and so I do think it's 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.800 important for parents to to kind of talk to kids 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.680 about that stuff and to talk about you know, to 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.520 find ways to teach them that sort of delayed gratification stuff. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.400 So like when I remember, like my boys were little, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.760 they had the pocket money thing, right, and they would 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.160 just get like we didn't make them save it, and 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:19.800 we just said, well, look it's yours. You can decide 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.479 what you do. And so my youngest guy, he was 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.560 like every week ago and buy some two dollars crappy 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.720 little thing and that would break and break and break. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.440 But his brother would kind of save up and he 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.359 would you know, get bigger, cooler stuff. And so eventually 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.960 the younger one thought I must start saving the stuff. 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:37.680 He had to go through that. It is like when 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.919 you first when you first get money, and it's like 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.599 your own money, that's a pretty amazing thing. I remember 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:44.320 my first job when I and I'm so old, I 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.120 got a check book and I remember thinking, oh my god, 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.279 like a check book, all right, checks for stuff. It 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.760 does feel kind of quite free and amazing. So you 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.279 do have to go through that phase of kind of 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.600 doing dumb stuff with it. But it's really helpful if 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:00.920 you can start that conversation I think earlier with kids 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.719 so they can start thinking about things like interest and 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.120 delayed gratification and yeah, you can spend it all now 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.919 or you could, but because that's about self control and 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.560 self regulation and lots of really good skills. 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.840 So for those that are thinking about setting up their 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.920 kids with pocket money, how did you what do they 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:22.839 need to do together their pocket money? And then also 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:26.200 do you think you would go about look you choose 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:27.920 what you do with it for a while, or actually, 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.080 for certain money personalities, we're going to teach you spend, save, 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.560 gift or whatever, you know, because actually I know you're 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:34.840 just going to do whatever you want with it. 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.880 You know. Yeah. Yeah, Well, So what I think is 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.520 like this, I don't think there's any kind of rights 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.240 or wrong, and I don't think there's any one sort 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:42.240 of hard research sciences based on So I do think 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.520 we know some stuff about about the stuff that you know, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.680 how we spend money, and it is that stuff about 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:48.640 you know, saving someone, spending stuff and fun stuff and 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:50.360 giving stuff we like that makes that kind of makes 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:54.839 people feel better. So it's like, it's like all things parenting, 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.240 you know, you have to like the more you understand 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:00.440 about your kid and the attemperament and how they're wired 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.440 together and how they see the world, then you can 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.359 do some different things for them. Because for some kids 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:07.480 it'll be like I've got it and now I'm going 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.440 to spend it and what I don't know. I'm just 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.200 going to throw it out the window because it feels cool, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:13.240 and other kids. He was like, man, you would say 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.760 this do you're a hundred and you wouldn't. You wouldn't 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:18.440 do anything with it. And so it is I think 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.600 about that that first thing of when they first start 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.120 to kind of get some pocket money and get a 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:27.960 little bit of money. It's that it's like every other 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.640 every other part of parenting. It's like, what kind of 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:34.240 kid do I have? And how is their temperament? How 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:35.960 is this going to work out for them later on? 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:37.600 And what are the skills that I need to start 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.320 teaching them now around the stuff. So if I've got 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.600 a little spender, you know, I'm going to let that 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.200 blow on for a bit so they can get that 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:46.040 out of the system and then just start kind of 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.000 gently file ways to kind of to bring it back. So, 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.160 like you know, with my youngest, we didn't have to 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.480 step in and make a policy. He just kind of 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.480 got there himself. But if he just kept doing it, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.920 then I think we would have probably had some more 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.440 focus conversations with him about like what do you like, 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.520 what's the what's what's going on now? You know, and 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.520 then we might have done some stuff like Okay, we're 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.160 gonna we're going to take a fifty percent tax off you. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.480 It's called the future tax, and we're going to put 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.760 this in this jar and you have to pay it 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.520 because we're the government. This helders. And then at a 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.360 certain time, we'll see how much is there and you 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:20.760 can you can spend it on some stuff. Well, then 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:22.600 you can make a decision about whether you increase your 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:25.000 tax rate or what you do like that that kind 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:25.480 of stuff. 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.440 I'm really intrigued on what people what kids should be 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.319 remunerated for with pocket money, Like how do you make 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.880 sure their money are aware but not money hungry or 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:36.360 money fearful? You know? 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.800 Yeah, yeah, I mean I think it should be kind 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:41.960 of values driven in your home, So like all families 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:43.160 need to kind of figure out, like what are the 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:45.920 values that drive our family and no one's got the 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.240 you know, it's it's it's about finding the stuff that 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.880 works for you. And so I personally, I think it's 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:55.000 a good thing for kids to like pocket money and 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.280 stuff that you get because you do some stuff to 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.240 help out. And so if you do the stuff to 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:00.840 help out, then you get paid, because it's kind of 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.640 how the world is. And I know other people don't. 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.520 They just just give it to their kids. And I 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:08.800 don't think either strategy is right or wrong. I just 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.240 think they are I think I think what people can 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:13.000 do sometimes is they can just chuck money at kids 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:14.400 and they have no sense of the value of it 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:17.160 and they just waste stuff. And I don't think that's 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.360 a good thing to do that. I think to have 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.839 some sort of consciousness of the fact that actually, you know, 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.880 this comes from somewhere, you know, like you losing your 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.440 shoes at school for like the third time, that stuff 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.360 comes from somewhere. So I think that you know, it's 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.600 that consequential learning stuff about money is still fundamentally it's 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.320 a resource that you have to make decisions about, and 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.840 if you make poor decisions, then you end up in 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.160 not such a great place. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.880 I remember when I had my children and I was 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:48.600 becoming a parent, I was like, there's all these humans 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.120 out there, it can't be that hard. Well, and then 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.040 I thought there has to be a formula, like why 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.240 isn't there a formulator like how to raise his child 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:55.960 or how you know? 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:57.559 And it kind of is right, I mean, there is 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.360 a way of kind of there are some frameworks that 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.600 you can apply to people, the temperament stuff, so that 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.680 you can kind of understand because we all kind of 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.360 we all kind of have a basic temperament, right You're 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.120 you're an introvert or an extrovert, your you know, more 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.520 intense or less intense, and that's we We're kind of 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.880 keep that through our whole life. But it changes over 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:20.199 a life as well, and so that's the really important 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.160 but to kind of figure out what your kid's temperament 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.640 is and then apply the things that work to that. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:29.280 Because really persistent, which is the nice way of saying 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.439 stubborn kids. They're very different to the more kind of 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.160 easy going quick do without to change kids. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:37.280 Yeah, I've got both. I call a strong. 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:41.880 World because you have to it's not what we mean. 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.000 I do need to touch on that introvert extra because 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.360 I feel like I hear all the time, you know 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.360 that being used, and I also hear all we shouldn't 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.560 be using that. It's not actually how people are well. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.559 No, so that the temperament stuff's been around for over 0:10:55.600 --> 0:10:59.400 fifty years, and so what the extrast stuff is talking about? 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.440 I think, I think what people get tangled up and 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:03.240 they think there's a good one and a bad one, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:06.000 and they're not like extroverts have their things going and 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.400 introverts to their thing going. That they're both introverts and 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.520 introverts like people, but introverts find it draining to be 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:13.959 around people and they fill up in quiet time, and 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.440 extroverts get their energy from being around people and they 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.560 find it draining being alone, and so like understanding that 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.679 basic thing about yourself is fundamentally important by nature. I'm 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.680 an introvert, so I find long periods of doing it 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:28.679 social stuff like it's really tiring. I just need a 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:30.840 little bit of quiet time. Weirdly, my partner is a 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.920 real extrovert, and so for her it's kind of the opposite, 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:35.240 but it's still kind of worked. And so it's not 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:37.200 like there's not a good one or a bad one. 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.680 They both have. There's both good and bad things about 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.120 all of that. Just like you know, there are having 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:45.680 a strong will kid is draining and exhausting. But those 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.680 are the kids when the will goes you can't do that, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.040 they go shut up, I can't and they just do it, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.600 you know. And the kids who are more flexible, what 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.679 they do is they find another way around it, or 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:58.360 they're better at working with teams of people, all that 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.360 kind of stuff. So there are good or bad temperaments. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.160 It's just who we are and then understanding that and 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:05.280 trying to figure out how to use that. 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.800 Yeah, personally, I've noticed myne change that's becoming a parent too. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.120 I think I was more extroverted and now I find 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:12.720 if I can get a bit of a loan time, 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:13.000 I'm like. 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:17.839 Yeah, yeah, that's just survival. That's just like even kids, 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:19.400 even if you're an ext of it, kids will scoop 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.240 all of that out of you, and you just you 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.640 just want to be away from tiny grasping fingers. It's 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.640 like just I just want peace of just no one 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.320 demanding stuff or anythings if something is my fault. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.800 Yeah, what are some top tips that it might not 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.280 just be parents, grandparents, anybody in a child's life, What 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.640 are some things that you wish you saw people do more? 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.240 When that interacting with children when it comes. 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:42.800 To money, money is just another way to teach kids' 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.840 values and to show kids the stuff that's important for you. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.840 And so the way that you spend money and what 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.840 you spend it on, that's that's just like the way 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.840 you treat other people when you're out and about with 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.240 your kids, Like that's teaching them things about your values, 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.520 and they're looking at your values and making their decisions. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.720 So so I kind of think it's about, Okay, you 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.240 just have to decide that values based stuff like how 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.600 do how do we think you look after people? And 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.040 how do we look after each other? And how do 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.200 we treat other people? And I think you just have 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:18.320 to be kind of values driven so that regardless of 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:20.120 kind of how much money you have with your kids, 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.439 that they are kind of making values based decisions about 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.760 what they do with it. Parenting is essentially it's a 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.360 long conversation, and so it's not like you do one 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.240 thing and it's like, okay, we've done that. We did 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:36.800 money from seven to nine, and now that's sorted. It's 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.319 just this continuous kind of ongoing conversation when you. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.280 Reflect on yourself as a dad and how you've interacted 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.400 with money with your children or what you've installed in 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.760 them as anything you're really proud of, like a moment 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.440 where you're like, oh, I think that really helped them. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:54.440 So I think one of the things that we kind 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.360 of tried to do is like, I think it's fine 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.680 to give your kids stuff, but you should give them 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:01.880 stuff because you want to give them stuff, not just 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.120 because they expect it or whatever. And so you know, 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.400 when it comes a little word, we do stuff. But 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.760 I remember again the youngest guy, I think we're in 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.200 Queenstown or something, and he wanted this silver money box 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:14.079 thing from Smuggle and like he never he was actually 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.520 really mallow cutler, He would never have. He had this 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:21.680 full on, two hour long meltdown because he had I 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.920 don't know, four bucks or something and it was going 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.320 to cost four dollars fifty and I chose that moment 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.960 to teach him a little money lesson, and like to 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.120 be honest, about twenty minutes and I was thinking, oh, man, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.280 I shouldn't we should just give them the kid the 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.480 fifty cents because it's just getting really boring. It's like, 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.560 I don't believe that he didn't. He hasn't sat down 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.800 and say, you know, Baba, that day in Queenstown changed 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.960 my heart look on life. He just remembers being really 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.080 angry about us at the time. So if I look 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.600 back to my too, I actually think it's more about 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.960 their too, individual little personalities and temperaments are like I 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.520 didn't think. I don't think it was anything any of 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:01.800 that stuff that we didn't need necessary that made a difference. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:03.760 But I think as part of I think you need 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.240 to see the money conversations with kids as being part 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:08.800 of all of that stuff. Like so it's a really 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.720 important part of life. And too, as they get older, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:14.320 I think you have to have conversations with them about 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.160 the wider world of money, because like they're there. You know. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.760 It is things like you know, the counter narrative that 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.040 poor people are poor because they're lazy and they do 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.120 work hard, and it's like, well, actually most people are 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.560 poor because they get paid the minimum wage and so 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:30.440 they're actually working seventy or eighty hours a week. Like, well, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:33.160 now we've gone out and talked to and I've worked 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.840 in homes and your famis where they're working far harder 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.640 than I've ever worked. And so you know, the things 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:43.160 like having conversations with your kids about how they think 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.960 about stuff, because they get to vote at some point, 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.080 so you have to decide, like, you know, what do 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.200 you think about all the stuff about taxes and tax rates, 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.520 and do we help other people out or do we 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.120 just all help our soals? And what do we do 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.960 about that? And you know, and generally what happens in 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.360 the world as as more of us get closer to 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.280 the edge, we suddenly decide that safety nets are a 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:05.360 great thing. So all the people that winged about the 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.440 dull blood is COVID comes along and it's like we 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.360 get research and payments where there's big safety in that, 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.840 and everyone's going, oh, this is the most great And 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.080 then once we get more comfortable again, we forget that 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:16.440 learning and some people kind of move on. 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.960 I've got a real visual too of that. How you said, 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.240 parenting is a lifelong conversation, and you just see it 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.720 from you know, when you're your child is young and 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:27.560 you might be teaching them delayed gratification through the Marshal 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:28.640 arw test or chocolates to. 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.760 You know, my oldest is now working and is doing 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.240 Key we Saver, and so we're now having conversations about 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.640 which Key we Save a scheme he is in and 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.600 what he thinks about that stuff. And it's so yeah, 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:43.000 it's like that stuff. It just it doesn't kind of 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.920 end it is. It is a long conversation, and it's 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.600 just like anything. It's not a separate conversation. And it's 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:50.920 not like one single thing is the be all around 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:52.720 all or anything. It's like they're all part of the 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:54.480 same sort of long thing. 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.200 I would love to see more people in the world 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.880 and in particular like feel more that their money is 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:00.880 we for them. 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.040 There are some things that we can all do to 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.359 kind of make better decisions and end up in a 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.320 better place. Like if I if. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:08.720 I knew. 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.400 When I was like starting off what I know now, 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:14.479 I would be ending my life in a way different 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.120 financial position, like just way different. I would have made 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.080 some really different decisions. And so particularly in the world 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.080 where traditional idea has been that you know, I'll buy 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:24.719 a home and that'll be my biggest assort. Well, for 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.239 more and more and more people, that's just never going 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.760 to happen. So then what do you do with your 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.320 money and you have to have ways to understand that 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.960