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Speaker 1: Now there's a bit of disagreement within the Coalition. David

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Speaker 1: Seymour has criticized Auckland's housing density plan, which makes it

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Speaker 1: possible to build up to two million homes in the city,

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Speaker 1: and he's pressuring the Housing Minister and the council Auckland

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Speaker 1: Council to rethink it. Housing Minister Chris Bishop is with us.

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Speaker 2: Hi bish, good start. Happy birthday, Oh thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: I hear Azaria did a little happy birthday thing for

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Speaker 2: me that was very nice.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard it.

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Speaker 2: I have heard it. Yes, it's been sent to me.

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Speaker 2: It's very kind. Let's all have a listen.

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Speaker 1: Let's all ever listen the Honorable Chris Bishop. I don't

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Speaker 1: think she hasn't got a future in music recording.

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Speaker 3: A probably not featuring little old Jerry Brownley. There it's

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Speaker 3: got a little cameo from big G.

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Speaker 1: Your former boss. Now listen, are you prepared to budge

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Speaker 1: on this?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: Parliament's whld Auckland Council to go and redo its plan.

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Speaker 3: And in fact the reason Parliament's done that is because

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Speaker 3: Auckland Council wanted us too. They wrote to me around

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Speaker 3: a year ago and said, listen, we want to opt

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Speaker 3: out of the m DR. Actually we campaigned on that,

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Speaker 3: so that's fine. So to act so to national so

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Speaker 3: that's all fine. And so we've given effect to their wishes.

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Speaker 3: And they also said, look we need to down zone

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Speaker 3: around the flood areas where you post the floods.

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Speaker 2: There's been a whole lot of new mapping, so that's

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Speaker 2: all good. So we said that's fine.

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Speaker 3: And then we said, okay, but look, if you're going

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Speaker 3: to redo the plan, you've got to do more density

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Speaker 3: around the train stations, particularly the city railing stations, where

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Speaker 3: we're spending thick in to six billion bucks.

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Speaker 2: And the council was up for that.

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Speaker 3: So Parliament's legislated the plan and now it's over to

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Speaker 3: the council and they have choices around where they where

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Speaker 3: they where they grow. But they've got to grow. That's

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Speaker 3: the sten of take home points.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Aukland's got to allow more housing, but they've got choices

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Speaker 3: around how they do that. They can do medium density,

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Speaker 3: they can do more apartments, they can do more terraced housing,

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Speaker 3: and they can do more green fields too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is it not a dumb idea though from them to

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Speaker 1: chuck up multi story apartment buildings on pipes and roads

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Speaker 1: that can't handle the extra load, well.

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Speaker 2: They just they won't be built. Right.

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Speaker 3: So that's the point is that this is a plan

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Speaker 3: for the long term. It's not a next year type plan.

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Speaker 3: It's a thirty year plan. So you know, as an

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Speaker 3: apartment building is it might be zoned, you know, it

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Speaker 3: might be the capacity might be there in a zoning sense. Right,

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Speaker 3: you can go and build an apartment, but if the

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Speaker 3: infrastructure can't cope, then it doesn't get built because you

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Speaker 3: build an apartment.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but is there is there a kind of a

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Speaker 1: proviso that if you do chuck up this multi story building,

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Speaker 1: is there an obligation to then fix the pipes underneath

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Speaker 1: it to make sure it can handle Well's there's.

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Speaker 3: A sequencing issue right with between water Care and the

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Speaker 3: council and some of the other enabling infrastructure that's required

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Speaker 3: for that stuff. So the point would be that over time,

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Speaker 3: as the infrastructure goes in and water Care has got

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Speaker 3: huge plans and we've just let them borrow more money

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Speaker 3: and given them a huge amount of more debt head

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Speaker 3: room and stuff which I won't go into, but water

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Speaker 3: Care has got very in the central intercept has just opened.

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Speaker 2: So there's a huge.

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Speaker 3: Amount of more storm water and waste water capacity coming

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Speaker 3: into Auckland.

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Speaker 2: But it's not all going to happen immediately.

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Speaker 3: There's a long term plan for water care over many

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Speaker 3: years and as the infrastructure gets built, the housing capacity

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Speaker 3: is there and then the houses can get built as well.

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Speaker 1: So it does, But does a lot does it necessarily

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Speaker 1: go that the infrastructure must go first then the houses?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because you can't.

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Speaker 3: You can't build an apartment that can't connect into waste

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Speaker 3: moore and store wore than that isn't there. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's a sequencing of the coordination. And as I say,

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Speaker 3: this is a long term thing, it's a thirty year think.

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Speaker 1: What about the allegation that David Seymour has made that

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Speaker 1: Aullcland Council is making it hard to find this detail online.

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Speaker 2: Well, he probably is right about that.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's a I think in the council's defense

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Speaker 3: without you know, I'm not here to defend the council.

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Speaker 3: But they put up the plans as a draft to

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Speaker 3: consult with the local boards and everybody else. But there's

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Speaker 3: formal consultation coming. This is like a draft of a

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Speaker 3: draft right. So it's a draft of a draft. There's

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Speaker 3: an actual draft that will go out formally for consultation

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Speaker 3: in September, and then there'll be public consultation on that,

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Speaker 3: and there'll be hearings that people will be allowed to

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Speaker 3: turn up to and have their say and say, look,

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Speaker 3: I don't like this in my suburban this, you know

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Speaker 3: this particular streets and appropriate for this, And you know,

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Speaker 3: there'll be a bunch of experts we'll sit around and

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Speaker 3: decide whether or not that's the legitimate or not.

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Speaker 2: That's all going to happen next year.

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Speaker 3: So I suppose my point for people listening is we're

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Speaker 3: right at the start of the process. People just need

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Speaker 3: to tie a bit. We're right at the start of

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Speaker 3: the process. It's a draft of a draft, and people

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Speaker 3: should engage and talk to the councilors and talk to

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Speaker 3: their local board representatives and engage on what it all means.

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Speaker 3: But Auckland's got choices, you know, the council and the

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Speaker 3: council laws have choices around where it grows.

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Speaker 2: But they've got to grow, you know that.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's going to come down to nimbiism, isn't it,

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Speaker 1: Because nobody actually in a villa wants to have a

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Speaker 1: five ten fifteen story apartment go up next door and

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Speaker 1: cast a massive shadow over you. That's what it's ultimately

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Speaker 1: going to be one or lost on.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's some There are rules around that.

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Speaker 3: There are rules around shade and height, to boundary ratios

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Speaker 3: and set back rules and all of that stuff that

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Speaker 3: the Council can and is setting. So I don't think

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Speaker 3: people should get super alarmed about that, but I understand that.

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Speaker 3: I understand the concern of some people. People want to

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Speaker 3: protect the character. Actually, the special Character Provisions and the

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Speaker 3: new draft Plan are a four point five six percent

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Speaker 3: reduction on the PC seventy eight plan change seventy eight,

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Speaker 3: which the Council was having to do, you know, three

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Speaker 3: or four years ago. So there's but there's a veryous

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Speaker 3: more reduction. I accept it's a reduction, but it's only

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Speaker 3: four and a half five percent, And actually.

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Speaker 2: You'd be surprised.

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Speaker 3: I've had emails from people who live in these villas

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Speaker 3: in Auckland saying this is really great. This is a

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Speaker 3: great plan because ultimately I want my kids to have

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Speaker 3: affordable housing. I want to be able to see my

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Speaker 3: kids and my grandkids. I want people to be able

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Speaker 3: to live with. You don't believe me. Now, I've had

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Speaker 3: emails about it.

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Speaker 2: Do you want to do?

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Speaker 1: You want to send us one redact the name and

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Speaker 1: send it to me.

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 3: I can happy to do that, and it's also fair

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Speaker 3: to say, and I will be completely honest. I've had

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Speaker 3: emails the other way from people saying, you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Believe your biship.

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Speaker 3: I don't like you, but and I recognize it's a

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Speaker 3: controversial debate, and I totally understand where people are coming from.

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't want to sound unsympathetic to any

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Speaker 3: of that stuff. But there's a there's a pathway through

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Speaker 3: here and ultimately it's over to Auckland.

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Speaker 2: They have choices around how and where they grow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, right, first of all, you're going to send me that,

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Speaker 1: then the redacted email, and then the second thing is

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Speaker 1: what are you doing for your birthday?

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Speaker 2: I'm actually in Auckland.

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Speaker 3: I'm going out to dinner with the Public Transport Association

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Speaker 3: of New Zealand. I'm having a ministerial dinner for their

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Speaker 3: so I know it's very exciting.

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Speaker 1: Good on you, mate, Happy birthday. Chris Bishop, National Party

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Speaker 1: Housing Minister.

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Speaker 2: For More from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drave.

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Speaker 3: Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,

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Speaker 3: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio