Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk SED.
Speaker 1: Be you longsome tonight? Do you miss.
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Speaker 3: We drifted?
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Speaker 4: When I kissed you?
Speaker 5: When I kissed you?
Speaker 6: And my producers worried that my MIC's on?
Speaker 5: I know my MIC's on. Tara's deliberately crooning along there.
Speaker 6: Welcome back to the Weekend Collective. If you've missed any
Speaker 6: we had an interesting discussion with both David Symbol and
Speaker 6: Duncan Webby's Justice spokespersons for Labor on the Treaty Principles bill.
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Speaker 6: have concluded. But right now it's time for a change
Speaker 6: of change of temperature or a change of subject at
Speaker 6: least the health up and my guest is psychotherapist. He's
Speaker 6: host of the Nutters Club, is regular guest on my show,
Speaker 6: and we're very grateful for that and his name is
Speaker 6: Carl McDonald.
Speaker 5: Hello, Kyl, how are you very well? Did you want
Speaker 5: to join him with Elvis?
Speaker 6: Then? I mean it's a very soothing way to get
Speaker 6: into the r, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: No, I wouldn't want to ruin your ratings singing.
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think you know you can get away with it
Speaker 4: to be sunfishal.
Speaker 6: I wouldn't try and imitate Elvis really seriously. I just
Speaker 6: love the fact that Tyra was protecting pointing at me,
Speaker 6: going the red light up, your MIC's on. It's like,
Speaker 6: I know, it's right, poor thing. I must stress around.
Speaker 4: So it's quite nice to be sung in.
Speaker 5: So I quite like that.
Speaker 4: It's a nice way to welcome a gaest welcome.
Speaker 5: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 6: Now we want to talk a little bit about loneliness,
Speaker 6: and actually because the study that found fifty nine percent
Speaker 6: of kis over the age of sixty five, just on
Speaker 6: an age basis, and it felt recently lonely or socially
Speaker 6: isolated fifty nine percent of people retirement age basically, and
Speaker 6: the question about loneliness, it's been the other word that's
Speaker 6: been used to describe it, I think is it's epidemic proportions,
Speaker 6: which actually I'm not surprised about.
Speaker 5: I don't think why is that because I think.
Speaker 6: I think that I know, they just think we're living
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if we're living as social as lives
Speaker 6: as we may have done. Is it just me I'm
Speaker 6: reflecting on But I don't know, Maybe I think that maybe,
Speaker 6: oh god.
Speaker 5: I don't want to mention COVID, but I.
Speaker 6: Think but I think that was a kind of breakaway
Speaker 6: to it which we haven't quite in our social habits.
Speaker 6: Just I mean, I think in the number of times
Speaker 6: that you might have friends around for dinner and all
Speaker 6: that sort stuff. I don't know our sociability, whether that's
Speaker 6: got anything to do it, but I'm certainly not surprised
Speaker 6: that people as they get older and the expression ever
Speaker 6: decreasing circles. Yeah, But firstly, I guess, what's the difference
Speaker 6: between being alone and loneliness?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Great question, because it's important to define some of the
Speaker 4: terms that they use in this research. So the first
Speaker 4: thing to be really clear about is when we talk
Speaker 4: about and there's actually a lot of research and we
Speaker 4: can touch on some of the other sort of areas
Speaker 4: of concern and what we're sort of seeing globally. But
Speaker 4: the first thing to define is that when we talk
Speaker 4: about these studies into loneliness, we're talking about the subjective
Speaker 4: experience of feeling lonely, right, So what we're not talking
Speaker 4: about the negative impact of being alone per se, because
Speaker 4: all of us might spend some time alone day to
Speaker 4: day or week to week or maybe even you know,
Speaker 4: in terms of how we structure our lives, and the
Speaker 4: capacity to feel a sense subjectively of feeling lonely obviously
Speaker 4: differs from person to person. So that's the first thing
Speaker 4: to be clear about. When we talk about these studies,
Speaker 4: we're talking about people who would report feeling lonely, and
Speaker 4: of course we can define that a little bit further,
Speaker 4: which basically means not having enough social contact or not
Speaker 4: enough time with other people in their lives.
Speaker 5: What about people who are loners?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean again, so if your choice is
Speaker 4: to be alone and that's not subjectively distressing to you,
Speaker 4: in fact that your preferred way of living, then actually
Speaker 4: we don't tend to see the same negative effects. Now,
Speaker 4: you know, psychotherapists love blurry and we.
Speaker 5: Love the love we lovery.
Speaker 4: We love the blurry bits in between the gray bits
Speaker 4: that the nuance. So one of the things that's hard
Speaker 4: to tell sometimes is if we spend a lot of
Speaker 4: time alone, we can become habituated to not experiencing loneliness.
Speaker 4: So one of the things to be really clear about
Speaker 4: is that that isolation can become habitual to the point
Speaker 4: where actually we feel as if we don't have any option.
Speaker 4: And what's really quite hard sometimes is to get people
Speaker 4: to actually get in tune with how they feel about
Speaker 4: being alone.
Speaker 6: Okay, so is it a problem if people get habituated
Speaker 6: to being lonely because if they are used to it
Speaker 6: and they don't have a perception that there's anything wrong,
Speaker 6: is there anything wrong?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the loop, right, Yeah. Yeah, So it is
Speaker 4: about being able to be really honest with ourselves and
Speaker 4: and sort of you know, ask ourselves the question, am
Speaker 4: I just accepting this because I don't think anything else
Speaker 4: is possible? And furthermore, are what we're seeing things like,
Speaker 4: for instance, depression, perhaps substance abuse, drinking, you know, are
Speaker 4: we seeing other things show up that may be a
Speaker 4: way to cope with a subjective, subjective feeling of loneliness
Speaker 4: because what we note them, and that the research that
Speaker 4: we're talking about today is really clear about this is
Speaker 4: that actually the health effects of prolonged loneliness are quite
Speaker 4: severe potentially, you know, the classic studies sort of compared
Speaker 4: it to smoking in terms of its lifestyle impact and
Speaker 4: cardiovascular risk stroke risk. Because what we know is that
Speaker 4: being lonely, if we want to be with people and
Speaker 4: we can't be with people, causes stress, which leads to cortisol,
Speaker 4: which is the wholemone of stress, and prolonged cortisol exposure
Speaker 4: is really harmful for those lifestyle so called to the
Speaker 4: lifestyle factors of physical health.
Speaker 6: And I guess if you are lonely, then maybe you
Speaker 6: might not as be motivated to go out and exercise,
Speaker 6: which is a way of counteracting stress as well, and
Speaker 6: all those sorts of things and doing. And also the
Speaker 6: cause is the fact loneliness might mean that you may
Speaker 6: be substance abuse or something for or whatever.
Speaker 4: Ye as a way to feel better, which is you
Speaker 4: know why most people end up abusing substances. So you
Speaker 4: mentioned COVID, I would say that there's another sea.
Speaker 6: Where I felt a it lazy when I did that.
Speaker 6: By the way, it's still in the back of it.
Speaker 4: It's a factor. It is a factor that the other
Speaker 4: sea word, which is really important is community. So one
Speaker 4: of the factors that has led to a breakdown of
Speaker 4: community is COVID. But we know that the thanks the
Speaker 4: one have been tracking this way for quite some time.
Speaker 4: And you know, I think common sense wise, we can
Speaker 4: sort of think about this, right, the things like night
Speaker 4: classes not being as available, you know, people not having
Speaker 4: as much spare time perhaps, you know, two full time
Speaker 4: plus incomes in a household, leading to less contact socially
Speaker 4: and outside of the sort of the work life. Working
Speaker 4: from home of course convenient and pragmatic for a lot
Speaker 4: of people, but also isolates us from colleagues. And I
Speaker 4: think we can sort of keep listing those things, can't
Speaker 4: we When we think about what's actually broken down that
Speaker 4: incidental social community, you know, whether it be volunteering or
Speaker 4: attending a church or going along to a sports club
Speaker 4: and getting involved in things, those things have been eaten away,
Speaker 4: I think over the last decade.
Speaker 5: I think that's yeah, I think you've nailed it.
Speaker 6: Actually, what is what I should have said slightly more
Speaker 6: eloquently myself? Can you be lonely when you're surrounded by
Speaker 6: lots of people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the other tricky bits of this. Right,
Speaker 4: So often I don't.
Speaker 6: Mean in a crowded street. I mean, for instance, you
Speaker 6: might be running an organization and the buck stops with
Speaker 6: you and you've got lots of people reporting to and
Speaker 6: all that sort of stuff, but essentially isolated maybe or
Speaker 6: unsupported or anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's again when we get into the nuance
Speaker 4: of it, right, I think you can actually potentially be
Speaker 4: in an unhappy family environment and feel lonely. So feeling
Speaker 4: lonely does not necessarily mean being alone either. That's the
Speaker 4: other take on this. A better way in some ways
Speaker 4: of defining what we're talking about is do you feel
Speaker 4: connected to other human beings?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: And connection can be small amounts, so it can be
Speaker 4: as simple as, you know, a yarn with someone at
Speaker 4: the supermarket or while we're filling the car up with gas,
Speaker 4: or it can be more meaningful connections in our life.
Speaker 4: And so again, when we think about that breakdown of
Speaker 4: community that I think, you know, we've seen in the
Speaker 4: western world at least over the last decade, being able
Speaker 4: to shop from home, being able to have things delivered,
Speaker 4: you know, so much of our life now can be
Speaker 4: delivered to our doorstep. That once we get into that
Speaker 4: pattern of avoidance of not going out and interacting socially
Speaker 4: and with our community, then loneliness can grow as a
Speaker 4: byproduct of those choices.
Speaker 6: We would love to hear from you eight hundred and
Speaker 6: eighty whether you are lonely or you've actually overcome it,
Speaker 6: or what what did you notice? What did you notice
Speaker 6: or what triggered you to actually do something about it,
Speaker 6: because as Kyle has mentioned, it's something you can become.
Speaker 6: I think that the word was habituated too. You get
Speaker 6: used to your isolated isolation, then you suddenly think, well,
Speaker 6: you know, you know, you get used to your routine
Speaker 6: and your pattern and your pattern in your daily life
Speaker 6: and looking after yourself. And have you have you broken
Speaker 6: that habit or broken that isolation? And how did you
Speaker 6: do it? But also how do we keep rebuilding? Because
Speaker 6: I think we are gradually establishing our sense of community.
Speaker 6: But I do think that that's that it's something that
Speaker 6: we have suffered from ever since COVID, the breakdown of community.
Speaker 6: Maybe you're not belonging to clubs that you might have
Speaker 6: belonged to or organizations and things like that. I'd love
Speaker 6: to hear from you if you've got any questions you
Speaker 6: want to talk to Kyle about or you want to
Speaker 6: ask Kyle, then we'd love to hear from you as well.
Speaker 6: Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine to nine
Speaker 6: two which I think we might go to the break
Speaker 6: now'll be back in just to take give us a call.
Speaker 5: Highs Fob.
Speaker 6: Hello, Well, what the hell is this? This is apparently
Speaker 6: it's a song about loneliness? What acorn?
Speaker 5: What is it? Econ? I never heard of it.
Speaker 4: We could give you some helium you can sing along with.
Speaker 9: It here doing a show if we did a show
Speaker 9: with just a bunch of helium balloons.
Speaker 6: Anyway, Hello, if you joined us, I hope you're not
Speaker 6: feeling so lonely this hour because we keep You're keeping
Speaker 6: us company, We're keeping you company. But this is the
Speaker 6: health of Umpton Beverage. Car McDonald's my guest. We're talking
Speaker 6: about dealing with loneliness, and just before I go to
Speaker 6: my first caller, I think that one of the questions
Speaker 6: will be worth exploring is how do you avoid loneliness
Speaker 6: as you get older? Because fifty nine percent of kiwis
Speaker 6: over the age of sixty five feeling lonely or social number.
Speaker 6: That's I mean, that's two out of three almost. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 6: six out of ten, four out of three out of five.
Speaker 5: There we go.
Speaker 6: That's about as far as I can reduce that good
Speaker 6: three fifths.
Speaker 5: There we go.
Speaker 6: Right, let's take some calls, Yannie, Hello, Hello to you both.
Speaker 10: Great song, great song?
Speaker 5: Which one the Elvis one or that last song?
Speaker 10: The last one just now, the Helium one. It's an
Speaker 10: awesome song. Should hear the whole thing. It's so great.
Speaker 10: It's not all just like that. But anyway, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 10: sixty seven, and I see it in a little bit
Speaker 10: of a different way because I am a survivor of
Speaker 10: Lake Ellis and abuse and kids. So I've chosen to
Speaker 10: be alone, live alone because I don't trust people at all.
Speaker 10: And so I, yeah, I live alone. I choose my
Speaker 10: times when I see people and I don't. I don't
Speaker 10: go to cafes, I don't go to nightclubs because I
Speaker 10: just can't cope with all the noise and the people
Speaker 10: around me. But I have to say that I am
Speaker 10: not lonely as such. I quite. I have a great
Speaker 10: relationship with myself and I do talk to myself a lot.
Speaker 10: But I know that a lot of other people do
Speaker 10: that anyway, that sometimes.
Speaker 4: The only way to guarantee intelligent conversation.
Speaker 10: I find, well, that's right, and I sort of just
Speaker 10: you know, ask myself things and the and then I answer,
Speaker 10: you know, I do a lot of things, like I
Speaker 10: walk an hour and a half every morning.
Speaker 6: You know, where does your social connection come from? Do
Speaker 6: you bump into people? Do you just not need it?
Speaker 10: I just don't need it, I do, though, I go.
Speaker 10: I've just started, actually, which is very weird, started going
Speaker 10: to a friend's house for dinner every now and again.
Speaker 10: And it's something I haven't done for years. And we
Speaker 10: play cards. Oh my god, and and and it's fun.
Speaker 10: And I come home and I think, oh my god,
Speaker 10: I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 5: Good.
Speaker 10: I wouldn't want to do it all the time.
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 4: What you're doing a wonderful job of illustrating. And thanks
Speaker 4: so much for calling in and letting us know how
Speaker 4: it works for you, because I think what what you're
Speaker 4: outlining really clearly is actually, when we look at what
Speaker 4: this looks like at an individual level, it's about listening
Speaker 4: to ourselves and being honest for ourselves and recognizing that
Speaker 4: loneliness is a feeling points out when our life is
Speaker 4: of balance, and particularly I think when it comes to
Speaker 4: as we move through life, that need might change. I mean,
Speaker 4: you know, most of us know that, for instance, teenagers
Speaker 4: and young people are generally to you thrash a stereotype
Speaker 4: generally more social, right, and that's partly a life and
Speaker 4: stage thing. But what we also know is that actually
Speaker 4: that need to be social to have a wide group
Speaker 4: of friends changes for all of us over life and
Speaker 4: is different for each individual. So listening to yourself and
Speaker 4: connecting with a friend and starting to be just that
Speaker 4: little bit more connected to people.
Speaker 5: Sounds like a great plan.
Speaker 6: Thanks very much, thanks to you call.
Speaker 5: You and niece really appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Jan, Hello, Hi there.
Speaker 11: I have three points. First one, some people are introverted
Speaker 11: and love their own company, don't like being in crowds
Speaker 11: or a socializing, so they're very happy on their own
Speaker 11: prefer it. And the extraverted people absolutely have to socialize
Speaker 11: the ways they feel unhappy and disconnected, et cetera. The
Speaker 11: second point, more people should be able to have pets
Speaker 11: which keep them company, and places like race homes and
Speaker 11: villages and elderly people on their own it should be facilitated.
Speaker 11: Instead of all those dogs in Auckland, eleven thousand of
Speaker 11: them being killed by the council, they should have all
Speaker 11: been rehomed to good family.
Speaker 4: I agree with you about pets. They're incredibly important when
Speaker 4: it comes to feeling a sense of connection.
Speaker 5: What's your third one?
Speaker 11: Jan the third one? Since I've been here in long
Speaker 11: than new some communities around here's sound probably even in
Speaker 11: the world. If you weren't born here and grew up here,
Speaker 11: you're not accepted. That's it. You could be here for
Speaker 11: ten years and you still won't be accepted. Yes, the
Speaker 11: first thing they ask you were you born here? And
Speaker 11: if you're not, that's it. You can't shut out from
Speaker 11: any sort of social connection, say snub you and very snobby.
Speaker 11: And that's how I found it. And a lot of
Speaker 11: people well.
Speaker 6: Actually yeah, I mean I think, yeah, I think I
Speaker 6: think there would be people who feel that if they've
Speaker 6: come from a different country that it might take it
Speaker 6: might actually sometimes be a bit of a struggle.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's hard to re establishing a network when you
Speaker 4: when you're from when you immigrate into a different country.
Speaker 4: But I think you know, particularly when we come we
Speaker 4: come back to the research around the fact that this
Speaker 4: is being recognized as a problem for those as they
Speaker 4: move into the later part of life. I think one
Speaker 4: of the really important things is to make sure that
Speaker 4: you maintain the capacity to be what I call a joiner.
Speaker 4: Make sure you're someone who's a joiner. And what I
Speaker 4: mean by that is that you're willing to join things,
Speaker 4: and that includes being able to try new things. So
Speaker 4: I think I say that because if you have the
Speaker 4: unfortunate experience of feeling like you're not welcome in a
Speaker 4: particular group or community or activity, don't give up. Keep
Speaker 4: trying because I think I'm sure that that happens. I'm
Speaker 4: sure that that you know that to the nature of
Speaker 4: social groups and people is that they sometimes can be
Speaker 4: a bit rough, not very welcoming. But keep trying. I
Speaker 4: think it's really important.
Speaker 5: Actually, is.
Speaker 6: It harder to form friendships as you get older?
Speaker 5: Do you think as well?
Speaker 6: Because people relationships come and go and friendships sometimes fall
Speaker 6: apart and things like that. In terms of do you
Speaker 6: think we are are we good at forming friends as
Speaker 6: we get older as well?
Speaker 5: Or because there's one.
Speaker 6: Thing to have acquaintances and people you know, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 6: I know, truckloads of people. But in terms of the
Speaker 6: number of people I'd count as close friends, I mean,
Speaker 6: that would be a reasonably small number.
Speaker 5: But maybe that's is that everyone.
Speaker 4: I think it's pretty normal. I mean, I think when
Speaker 4: we look at one of the weird things about social
Speaker 4: media is this idea that we have hundreds or even
Speaker 4: thousands of friends. It's kind of ridiculous, right, what the
Speaker 4: brain research tells us. Actually, interestingly enough, we're not really
Speaker 4: capable of having meaningful connections with much more than a
Speaker 4: handful of people. And then even wider friends, that upper
Speaker 4: number seems to be somewhere around one hundred something, So
Speaker 4: you know, when we think about sizes of community, that
Speaker 4: makes sense. But just coming back to what you're saying
Speaker 4: there is the developmental research tends to suggest that we
Speaker 4: tend to get less flexible generally mentally flexible, I mean
Speaker 4: as we age, and so that ability to keep working
Speaker 4: at being open, engaging with new ideas, learning new skills,
Speaker 4: musical instruments, going to singing lessons, anything that can teach
Speaker 4: us a new skill later in life is incredibly important
Speaker 4: for that mental flexibility, and that includes making new connections
Speaker 4: with people.
Speaker 6: Is that because we just aren't exercising those muscles, because
Speaker 6: when you're growing up and learning, and you are exercising
Speaker 6: those muscles all the time, because that's part of being
Speaker 6: young and growing up and learning, excuse me, learning new things.
Speaker 6: Whereas there's I might argue, in a very simplistic method manner,
Speaker 6: that maybe there's a level of complacency that you get
Speaker 6: settled with what your life is. This is what I
Speaker 6: do for a job, these are my hobbies, and these
Speaker 6: are my friends, and so you actually don't practice those muscles.
Speaker 6: It's like, I quote this all the time. It's quite
Speaker 6: from Pride and prejudice, where mister Darcy says to miss
Speaker 6: Bennety says, I don't converse well with others, and she says, well,
Speaker 6: I don't play the piano very well. But I take
Speaker 6: that to be my own fault, given that I don't practice. Absolutely,
Speaker 6: there is something in that, isn't there That age is
Speaker 6: not necessarily sarily the reason. It's what comes along with
Speaker 6: age in the way you approach things.
Speaker 4: Yes, although I think that what's also true is that
Speaker 4: that makes it sound negative, which so let's talk about
Speaker 4: the positive flip side of that, which is that what
Speaker 4: tends to happen as we age, as we rely more
Speaker 4: on experience as a shortcut to know how to be
Speaker 4: in different situations. So that accumulation of experience often makes
Speaker 4: us really really good at doing the things we've done before,
Speaker 4: and it's hard to do things that are new. But
Speaker 4: the personality researchers talk about, this variable called openness to
Speaker 4: experience is something you can measure. You can measure it
Speaker 4: across life, and it's one of the things that tends
Speaker 4: to predict. We can predict that most people's openness to
Speaker 4: experience goes down over life, starting from whatever setpoint you
Speaker 4: start at when you're younger, of course, so you know,
Speaker 4: very flexible people will tend to just be a little
Speaker 4: bit less flexible in older age.
Speaker 5: Okay, let's take some more calls. Edward Hello, Oh.
Speaker 12: Hi guys, with learning assiety from a different angle. I'm
Speaker 12: an only child and my wife died recently. We were
Speaker 12: married for nearly nearly fifty ideas, but we didn't we
Speaker 12: didn't any children, so of course now I have no one.
Speaker 12: So what I do to climbat out as I walk
Speaker 12: and everyone that I meet I talked to briefly, and
Speaker 12: I volunteer a lot. About half half a dozen different groups,
Speaker 12: and I'd get my social connection from me. But it
Speaker 12: would be nice to have a lady friend, just just
Speaker 12: someone to have coffee worth, maybe go to the movies,
Speaker 12: have the meal together, just just degree are in, just
Speaker 12: just a real real friend.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 12: But yeah, now that's how I deal with it. I'm
Speaker 12: quite happy with my with my own company, but but
Speaker 12: it would be nice to have a have a friend.
Speaker 5: How long ago was it that your your wife passed away?
Speaker 12: Two years?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Actually that's an interesting one, doesn't it. As you
Speaker 6: get older and relationships break up or you're breathed, yeah,
Speaker 6: estepish your relationships.
Speaker 5: What do you reckon?
Speaker 4: Well, let me just say, first of all, I think
Speaker 4: you're doing everything right in terms of what the standard
Speaker 4: sort of if you like advice is that don't for
Speaker 4: one moment underestimate those those small little moments of contact
Speaker 4: that you describe when you're out walking and you might
Speaker 4: say a low to someone or have a brief on
Speaker 4: those are actually really very important. And volunteering is a
Speaker 4: great way to get involved and to use our expertise
Speaker 4: in our time for the benefit ourselves and others. So
Speaker 4: well done for that. The main thing, of course, is
Speaker 4: to make sure. If you are looking for a partner,
Speaker 4: to make sure. And I say this to anyone of
Speaker 4: any age. First thing you've got to do is make
Speaker 4: sure you're around people, because that's how we meet. So
Speaker 4: keep up the good ones.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you.
Speaker 6: Can go on things like Bumble or Tinder when you
Speaker 6: are slightly more advanced years and we don't know what
Speaker 6: the age, there's no age. Have you explored dating sort
Speaker 6: of in a apps orce sort of sight.
Speaker 12: I was rather hoping that the the also working or
Speaker 12: I help out and there might be someone there or
Speaker 12: someone might know somebody. Yeah. I think back to the
Speaker 12: days we had nieces and nephews and all that kind
Speaker 12: of thing, and we usually had Christmas Day at air
Speaker 12: place and yet had a dozen people there. It was marvelous.
Speaker 12: And now on Christmas Day I go fishing. Oh I
Speaker 12: love it nice. Yeah, because Christmas Day just reminds me
Speaker 12: maybe what you don't have.
Speaker 5: Maybe someone, maybe one of your nieces and nephews. And listening,
Speaker 5: so I heard Uncle Edward on the radio. He's looking
Speaker 5: for a date. Let's see what we can do.
Speaker 12: I got a niece in Australia. She's the closest. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 12: I've got now so yeah, she's all your way away.
Speaker 12: But come here's that. I see you.
Speaker 6: Thanks for that, Hey, Edward, good on you, mate, Thank
Speaker 6: you for your call. Actually, you know what, this has
Speaker 6: reminded me, and it almost makes me feel a bit
Speaker 6: guilty because, in the context of overnight talkback, which I
Speaker 6: do as well, it's a massive community and sometimes it'll
Speaker 6: probably make me be a bit more cautious about hanging
Speaker 6: up quickly on an irritating caller, because you know what,
Speaker 6: they are a massive community.
Speaker 4: Yeah, fair enough, I completely agree. I mean, obviously nut
Speaker 4: as Clutters Club Sunday night from eleven pm to one
Speaker 4: am tune in tonight. We often talk about it as
Speaker 4: a community because it is, and I think for a
Speaker 4: lot of people, listening to the radio overnight is a
Speaker 4: great way to combat loneliness and to feel more connected.
Speaker 6: Actually, well, you know, the example just before we move on,
Speaker 6: the example of what an amazing community that was is
Speaker 6: you'll recall when Bruce Russell passed away, Because that happened
Speaker 6: while you guys I think, were on air, it did,
Speaker 6: But the reaction on talkback to Bruce's passing amazing. When
Speaker 6: I had to go on and do the first sort
Speaker 6: of session of talkback one it was we thought it
Speaker 6: was after it because it was in the holiday. I
Speaker 6: think it was in holiday. I can't quite remember what
Speaker 6: was going on, but I had to go on the
Speaker 6: next morning and we opened the lines and we hadn't
Speaker 6: opened the lines. We thought no one's calling, and it.
Speaker 5: Was twenty four hours.
Speaker 6: Every single host basically was the massive reaction to it.
Speaker 6: And it's just a sense because there was he was
Speaker 6: his own community.
Speaker 5: To his callers.
Speaker 6: And it's a good reminder to us, I think sometimes
Speaker 6: as opposed to me hitting the flush button irritating caller,
Speaker 6: which I will do once every two or three months,
Speaker 6: might have to make it once every three or four Anyway,
Speaker 6: Look tell you what, we will take a moment. We'll
Speaker 6: come back with. Got a bunch of callers. Please hold on, Gloria, Andrew,
Speaker 6: and Andrew and I will be back with you in
Speaker 6: just a minute. This is the week in collective the
Speaker 6: Health News talk said, be talking about loneliness.
Speaker 13: Give us a call, Rush, Oh Fools, Rush that songs
Speaker 13: for Edward Fools Rush in We're Angel's Fear to Tread.
Speaker 6: We were talking about that in the last before the
Speaker 6: last hour. Actually, krr's looking confused. That's me, is it?
Speaker 4: I was wondering if you were going to tell me
Speaker 4: who it was. So thank you for doing.
Speaker 6: That's me with the Buddy Children's Big Band in Hollywood,
Speaker 6: going back to that's over twenty years ago. Pretty fun anyway,
Speaker 6: the swing version of me. Anyway, Thank you, Tyra. Well,
Speaker 6: we'll save with the tim beverage now until it's Christmas
Speaker 6: song time and we have flogged the hell out of it.
Speaker 6: We got a couple of weeks a peace Gloria, Hello.
Speaker 14: He's hello. The gentleman before who said about going out
Speaker 14: and doing voluntary work and there combat the loneliness and everything.
Speaker 14: That's a really really good idea, isn't it. Yep? Absolutely,
Speaker 14: because this thing, you know, mental health and loneliness and
Speaker 14: all that. When you get to know the people, often
Speaker 14: it's they're just they've shut themselves off from society and
Speaker 14: it's just not good. And you know, when you get
Speaker 14: you get out and get involved and give you give
Speaker 14: of yourself to help other people, you just get so
Speaker 14: much joy out of doing that, whereas if you're just
Speaker 14: focusing on yourself all the time, you know, it's all
Speaker 14: a bit boring, whereas if you know, you get out
Speaker 14: and about and help other people. You know, we all
Speaker 14: need each other. That's the whole thing. You can't sit
Speaker 14: around the house all day doing nothing. Yeah, so that's
Speaker 14: one way of looking at I'm not talking about clinical depression.
Speaker 14: That's something that's totally different.
Speaker 4: And I understand and you're absolutely right that sense of
Speaker 4: contributing actually makes us feel better.
Speaker 14: It does. We feel part of society, you know, we
Speaker 14: feel part of family, you know, Yeah, we feel feel
Speaker 14: part of the community. And my other take on this
Speaker 14: and as also, we have somebody who really wants to
Speaker 14: be our friend toe our spiritual values. That's God, but
Speaker 14: we don't want to know him. And that's really sad
Speaker 14: because when we know God, we've got somebody else that
Speaker 14: we can talk to and he understands us. And often
Speaker 14: when we know God, we usually join up in a
Speaker 14: church group. Now, I know you're going to get everybody
Speaker 14: ringing in and saying to change.
Speaker 4: I hope not.
Speaker 6: I think that's the reason a lot of people go
Speaker 6: to church.
Speaker 5: I think it's for the people.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you raise a really important point and it's one
Speaker 4: of the things I thought was interesting. It was included
Speaker 4: in the research because I'd be interested as to whether
Speaker 4: people who have a faith and a connection to God
Speaker 4: actually experienced loneliness in the same way. Of course that
Speaker 4: the very practical part is what you're raising that actually,
Speaker 4: what it tends to lead to for a lot of
Speaker 4: people is actually a sense of community with other human
Speaker 4: beings too, which is really important.
Speaker 14: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what. Yeah, absolutely, And you know,
Speaker 14: you go to a church and there's usually at least
Speaker 14: most church have ever at one hundred people, so you've
Speaker 14: got a huge that's the other thing. It's interesting because
Speaker 14: you've got people from all different walks of life with
Speaker 14: all that do all different occupations, and it's incredible you
Speaker 14: can know and yeah, so.
Speaker 5: That's good advice.
Speaker 6: And I think actually the other bit of advice, which
Speaker 6: I think is quite useful there is when you are
Speaker 6: lonely and you're focused on the way you're feeling that
Speaker 6: it's maybe sometimes counterintuitive to focus on other people, but
Speaker 6: by thinking of doing you know, thinking about connecting or
Speaker 6: helping other communities in a community, or doing some volunteer
Speaker 6: work and thinking about helping others, you do get that
Speaker 6: reward back pretty quickly. I think without focusing on yourself.
Speaker 6: That's another times you have saying it. You could probably
Speaker 6: put that better for me, couldn't you?
Speaker 4: Come No, I think you're absolutely right. And actually, interestingly,
Speaker 4: one of the things again talking about why why are
Speaker 4: we talking about this and why is this more becoming
Speaker 4: more of a problem. We also know that volunteer voluntary
Speaker 4: age and so you know there's a wide range of
Speaker 4: charities and organizations that rely on volunteers are struggling to
Speaker 4: find people, and that the number of people who are
Speaker 4: willing to volunteer has also been steadily decreasing over the
Speaker 4: last few years. So again when we think about you
Speaker 4: know how to overcome that. If you're out there listening
Speaker 4: and you find yourself alone a lot of the time
Speaker 4: and not liking it, Google volunteer when whatever city you're
Speaker 4: in voluntary agencies, or go and talk to the Citizens
Speaker 4: Advice Bureau often in your local library, or see ap
Speaker 4: to orgdor in Z and they'll be able to put
Speaker 4: you in the right direction.
Speaker 6: Actually that good because it gives you a choice of
Speaker 6: things you might be There might be things you think
Speaker 6: are could volunteer for that, but that doesn't really excite
Speaker 6: me that particular.
Speaker 4: Cause but you'll find something absolutely that will excite and
Speaker 4: often then of course people who share some of the values.
Speaker 6: Yeah being go see this is why we get you
Speaker 6: in Kyle. You know it's good grist for the mill mate.
Speaker 4: Happy to help.
Speaker 6: Andrew? Are you talking to us Andrew and he's talking
Speaker 6: to someone else he needs to work out, Tya, if
Speaker 6: you could just go and mention Andrew that we were
Speaker 6: quite keen to chat him. I think he's responding to
Speaker 6: someone else next to what he's talking about, Yes, while
Speaker 6: he's waiting die Hello, Oh hi.
Speaker 8: Guys, Hey, good topic. Look, I think some people forget
Speaker 8: for elderly that there could be obstacles like poverty or
Speaker 8: ill health yep, where you know, some people could be
Speaker 8: they could have a little bit of money but not
Speaker 8: enough to go out and actually join in some of
Speaker 8: the things that cost a bit of money. And the
Speaker 8: other part is with the health factor. Some people might
Speaker 8: be mobile but not as mobile to do things. So
Speaker 8: for me, I love walking and I'm always talking people
Speaker 8: or you know, their little dogs run up to me
Speaker 8: and we have a good old chin wag. So you know,
Speaker 8: I like to talk and help people out in the
Speaker 8: community wherever I can, and I remember back to a
Speaker 8: cousin and his wife who were just amazing as they aged.
Speaker 8: They still love trampines that do really big walks up
Speaker 8: in the hills, and they also did ballroom dancing, which
Speaker 8: is yeah, and when you think about it, like they
Speaker 8: were that wasn't expenses And I remember they used to,
Speaker 8: you know, like they took my mum when she's elderly along,
Speaker 8: you know, to a couple of those dances, which were
Speaker 8: fantastic because you would know tim with your music, it
Speaker 8: is a great spirit lifting, you know, modem for really
Speaker 8: lifting people's spirits up and connecting socially.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's probably one of those things that when you're
Speaker 6: busy as a singer and things like that, I might
Speaker 6: have taken it for granted until you find yourself, you know,
Speaker 6: doing other mind you I've stepped into a pretty social
Speaker 6: job with talk back. But yeah, I mean, yeah, that's
Speaker 6: music is Music's a great way to connect with peace.
Speaker 8: I think, yeah, just a little thing. One of the
Speaker 8: things I did my elderly mum's care and as she
Speaker 8: was aging, some things had become more difficult. She has
Speaker 8: amazing pianist and a great singer, and so when we're
Speaker 8: up in Nelson. We met this lovely lady who ran
Speaker 8: this fantastic ukulele group and they used to get together
Speaker 8: on Sunday afternoons. So we started going and the first
Speaker 8: couple of times are seriously, it was the best fun.
Speaker 8: And there was a huge group of people, all different ages,
Speaker 8: and even people who would be walking past the hall
Speaker 8: or the room where you know, everyone was, they were
Speaker 8: just coming and it had that energy which lifted spirits.
Speaker 8: So I don't know, maybe we should have more of
Speaker 8: that sort of stuff and people, including those who are
Speaker 8: feeling a bit lonely.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a fantastic suggestion. There's actually quite a bit
Speaker 4: of research into and you were like, in terms of
Speaker 4: singing together in groups, ukule groups, singing groups, choir as
Speaker 4: you know. I mean, obviously that's an aspect of church
Speaker 4: for a lot of people, but that's there seems to
Speaker 4: be a particularly deep sense of connection when we are
Speaker 4: actually in sync with other people, whether it be through
Speaker 4: singing or playing musical instruments, which is even sort of
Speaker 4: more emotionally satisfying than conversation.
Speaker 6: Actually, I'm going to mention I'm funny enough on the
Speaker 6: on the music front. I'm doing a Christmas concert with
Speaker 6: the north Shore Brass Band the Holy Trinity on the
Speaker 6: seventh of December. And you know, one of the reasons
Speaker 6: I'm really looking forward to it is just getting in
Speaker 6: front of a bunch of you, an audience, a live
Speaker 6: audience with an amazing I mean, it's a community organization
Speaker 6: at north Shore Brass and just yeah, a bit of Christmas,
Speaker 6: bit of community spirit, all of the above.
Speaker 4: You know, Well, let me just check another helpful suggestion
Speaker 4: out there too as well, because the caller mentioned, what
Speaker 4: if your health problems, you can't get out of the house.
Speaker 4: So there's a service that a lot of people may
Speaker 4: not know about called the Saint john On's Caring Caller Service.
Speaker 4: And it's both sides, right, So you can volunteer to
Speaker 4: do it and you can apply apply to the program
Speaker 4: to be part of it, and it's basically a regular
Speaker 4: phone call from a person on a regular basis for
Speaker 4: those elderly who might struggle to get out of the
Speaker 4: house or struggle to connect with people. Eight hundred Saint
Speaker 4: John's is the way to get hold of them, and
Speaker 4: it's a great service. We've talked about a lot on
Speaker 4: the Nuttis Club over the years. It's a very practical
Speaker 4: way to both help and to be helped.
Speaker 6: Good stuff, Right, We are going to be back in
Speaker 6: just a moment. It's eleven and a half minutes to
Speaker 6: five News talks, there'd be and welcome back news talks,
Speaker 6: there'd be week and collective. There's no excuse for that song.
Speaker 6: I don't mean it's a bad choice, but it's just
Speaker 6: not related to our topic. It's just just a good
Speaker 6: old banger from time to time built the city on
Speaker 6: rock and roll.
Speaker 5: Let's carry on with the cause.
Speaker 6: Talking about learning was Loneliness with psychotherapist and the host
Speaker 6: of The Night of Club, corm mac donald Andrew. Hello, Yeah,
Speaker 6: I h.
Speaker 3: I apologize I was talking to the next neighbor, but hey, look,
Speaker 3: I really have sort of understood the subject for some time,
Speaker 3: and the fact that I've lived in quite a few
Speaker 3: different countries and as soon as you get there, it's
Speaker 3: just alone, you don't know anyone, et cetera. And it's
Speaker 3: but I think some of the.
Speaker 7: People on the show already have brought up some really
Speaker 7: good ideas. It's just about you know, stepping out a
Speaker 7: comfort zone and and like literally being a pain in
Speaker 7: your own ass.
Speaker 6: Yes, well, I think we can let your way with
Speaker 6: that one, Andrew set you're basically saying you've got to
Speaker 6: push yourself out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 7: You've got to really really go, and you don't have
Speaker 7: to worry about what other people.
Speaker 3: Think you can. Just you can, because you know you'll
Speaker 3: pick and choose, other people will choose you, and then
Speaker 3: you'll pick and choose between those people.
Speaker 5: I agree.
Speaker 4: And the capacity to tolerate noble disappointment is really important
Speaker 4: in that process, isn't it that? Actually, like I said
Speaker 4: earlier in the hour, the important thing was being a
Speaker 4: joiner someone who can join and do new things, is
Speaker 4: to keep going, keep trying, and make sure no matter
Speaker 4: what happens, you just keep going, keep trying the next thing.
Speaker 7: Hundred thanks, really really good advice.
Speaker 6: Yep, thanks Andrew. Actually a lot of people sort of
Speaker 6: say I'm not very good at conversation. It's like I
Speaker 6: just say, what, just be honest.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 6: Remember this was in a context of updating someone saying
Speaker 6: I saw someone once and they thought I really should
Speaker 6: go and talk to her, Yeah, and couldn't think of
Speaker 6: anything say so he said, actually went up and said,
Speaker 6: I've been trying to think of an excuse to come
Speaker 6: up and say, lady, and I couldn't.
Speaker 4: So Hi nice, I thought genuine?
Speaker 5: Is it honestep, authentic or where you go?
Speaker 4: The best advice if you're not sure what to say
Speaker 4: is just be really interested in the other person.
Speaker 5: Again, very good advice. Julianne.
Speaker 2: Hello, Yeah, Hi Tim, You're my favorite talk show host.
Speaker 2: I'm finally ringing in to talk to you. I'm seventy
Speaker 2: five and I'm associated with Age Consume and they have
Speaker 2: a professional visiting service for one hour a week and
Speaker 2: they can pick you up, take you to coffee, take
Speaker 2: you to do your shopping, and they give a wonderful service.
Speaker 2: And it's twenty dollars to join. And the email is
Speaker 2: Age Concern at age co nak dot org dot m
Speaker 2: Z and the telephone numbers O nine eight two one
Speaker 2: eighty four and you can join up and they'll send
Speaker 2: you out all the gin. They'll email you a whole
Speaker 2: thing about all the community centers and we're going We're
Speaker 2: going to the Chatter two community seats twelve thirty most
Speaker 2: days to do an hour of aerobics. And my husband's
Speaker 2: in a wheelchair and he loves it.
Speaker 4: Fantastic of the Age concent did great work, and of
Speaker 4: course you know that the piece and the media that
Speaker 4: we've been talking about was of course Age Concern Research.
Speaker 4: So thank you for the time that you've given and
Speaker 4: for letting us know about those resources.
Speaker 6: And Juliane, if anyone at Google's age Concern, they'll get
Speaker 6: taken to age concern Aukland website pretty quickly, won't they,
Speaker 6: even if they can't read.
Speaker 2: They will, and the forms there they can fill out online,
Speaker 2: they can pay their twenty dollars online and someone will
Speaker 2: contact them.
Speaker 6: The brilliant Hey, thanks so much, Juliane, call again sometimes.
Speaker 13: Thank you.
Speaker 12: I will both and now all the best.
Speaker 6: Gosh, that hour has flown by Kyle. So look, I
Speaker 6: hope we've managed to keep your company in an ironic
Speaker 6: sense with our talk about loneliness.
Speaker 5: But any sort of final thoughts with thirty seconds to.
Speaker 4: Go, don't be afraid of doing something new. I think
Speaker 4: that's a really important thing. Try something new, Try talking
Speaker 4: to a new person, and if you feel stuck, try
Speaker 4: to think creatively about how you can solve that problem.
Speaker 4: And if all else fails, get another brain involved, talk
Speaker 4: to someone.
Speaker 6: Try try try again, and people can catch you on
Speaker 6: the Nutters Club tonight at what time?
Speaker 4: Eleven pm on here on News Talks, you'd be till
Speaker 4: one am.
Speaker 6: Excellent, We'll be back shortly with smart Money news Talks.
Speaker 5: He'd be.
Speaker 1: For more from the weekend collective. Listen live to News Talks.
Speaker 1: He'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio