1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,800
Speaker 1: Ten minutes past seven, right the public inquiring into the

2
00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,280
Speaker 1: handling of that Tom Phillips case that's underway today. Did

3
00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,479
Speaker 1: government agencies take all practicable steps to safeguard the children

4
00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,039
Speaker 1: that police are rung a Tamriki Ministry for Children. All

5
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,840
Speaker 1: that Matthew Haygue, lawyer and former police officer, is with

6
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,640
Speaker 1: It's Matthew morning, Good morning, Michael. I didn't know you're

7
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: a former police officer. Now he still was obvious fault

8
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,560
Speaker 1: going in? Or is this so unique you just simply

9
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: had to have an inquiry.

10
00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 2: I think it's the lesser, and I would go further

11
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 2: than that and say I don't think there is obvious

12
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,199
Speaker 2: fault on the part of place. I think certainly there

13
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: will be things that they could have done better. But

14
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 2: this is a complex situation involving children at risk, is it.

15
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,559
Speaker 1: I can't get my head around the idea as to

16
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: whether we do these things for the sake of doing

17
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,120
Speaker 1: them and there will be recommendations and there will be

18
00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 1: fault found because nothing's perfect. Does anything material result as

19
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,200
Speaker 1: because of that or is it just we're doing something

20
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 1: for the sake of it?

21
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 2: I think it depends on the terms of reference. With

22
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 2: the inquiry, and I was quite critical of the first

23
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 2: COVID inquiry for example, and the way those terms of

24
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,560
Speaker 2: reference are very narrow. I think these terms of reference

25
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,560
Speaker 2: are sufficiently why to allow meaningful recommendations to be made.

26
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 2: Whether or not government agencies take those up as another

27
00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,240
Speaker 2: question they usually do, and in this case i'd expect

28
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 2: with the public scrution there there.

29
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 1: Would what about the variables around things like the police.

30
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: I mean, having talked to the police minister and some

31
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: policemen for example, what they thought he might do, what

32
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 1: could unfold? How do you inquire about that into things

33
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:25,880
Speaker 1: that didn't happen.

34
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 2: I think by talking to those places, and this was

35
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 2: an ongoing situation across a number of years, which is

36
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,160
Speaker 2: part of the problem. Police would have done exhaustive risk

37
00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 2: an lyses over those years. There's going to be documentary

38
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 2: evidence that Justice Small can look at as part of

39
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 2: his work.

40
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 1: Okay, well, well we'll see where it goes. Appreciate your expertise,

41
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,000
Speaker 1: but now Matthew Hague, lawyer, former police officers. For more

42
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks

43
00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,360
Speaker 1: there'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast

44
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio,