1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: You're on News talksb has just gone quarter to five. 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: So on an interview with The Herald Now with Me 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: this morning, Chris Hepkins came out and said, basically, the 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: COVID inquiry is platforming conspiracy theorists and he's not sure 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: whether he'll attend, even though they have asked or shown 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: interest in him attending and at least answering some questions. 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan is The Herald's political editor. He's with me now, Hi, Thomas. Okay, Ryan, 8 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: what did you make of Chippe's approach. 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly quite combative. I mean, I think he 10 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: has a point about the fact that the terms of 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 2: reference beginning in twenty twenty one, which would exclude twenty twenty, 12 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: the year that New Zealand First is part of the government. 13 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: I think he's got a point about that, like the 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 2: Royal Commission should take into consideration all decisions made during 15 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: the COVID period. But in terms of platforming those around 16 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: those people have conspiracy theorist views. I mean, the government 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: made incredibly intrusive decisions into the live of a lot 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 2: of people. Now, many of those people would have used 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: about things like vaccination that a lot of people would 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: regard as being conspiracy theories, like, you know, vaccination is effective, 21 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: it works, you know, that is just a factive life. 22 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: People who don't believe in that, I would argue that 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 2: is a conspiracy theory. But it's also true that those 24 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: people have every you know, the same rights that you 25 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 2: and I have, the same rights that all people have, 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: and the government made decisions that intruded upon those rights. 27 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: And I think a government has to and people part 28 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: of that government do have an obligation to stand up 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 2: and justify those decisions. And I think you know, you 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: can ask. I'm sure Crisipkins probably will eventually he can. 31 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: There is a justification for them. Whether or not those 32 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: that justifications accepted, well, you know, that's that's something that 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: will be decided in the future. But certainly, I think 34 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: you have an obligation as a decision maker in that 35 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: time to answer those questions. 36 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and do you not run the risk of I 37 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: mean this Labour's problem last time, right, they ostracized people, 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: they othered them, They lost Auckland because they did this. 39 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: They didn't understand the depth of feeling here. Does he 40 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: run the risk of reigniting those old wounds. I mean, yes, 41 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: I do. 42 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: I mean particularly in Auckland, where I think and I 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: have acknowledge that they lost you know, they really lost 44 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: Auckland and they have an Auckland problem. And he's spending 45 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: a lot of time up there. Barbara Edmonds is also 46 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 2: spending a lot of time up there, and you do, 47 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 2: I think you do. There does need to be eventually 48 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: this sort of issue needs to be put to bed. 49 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: And maybe maybe part of it is the fact is 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 2: sort of answering to some of those concerns saying your 51 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 2: peace and the people, you know, the people who he's 52 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: anxious about being platformed, they might want to have their 53 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: piece as well. 54 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, first three Waters entity. 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: Yeah so and so this is this is the first 56 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: three waters entity under the new three waters system. The 57 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: last government had there three waters entities legislated and then 58 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: they were disbanded. So this is the sort of the 59 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 2: new voluntary system that the Coalition has has has set up. 60 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: So Selwyn's the first council in the country's launch its 61 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: new water services entity, Selwyn Water Wellington Wellington, which I mean, 62 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 2: let's face it, Wellington's on the naughty list as far 63 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: as water water services is. Concerned. Wellington's Metro water is 64 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: also is also getting started as well. And that's a 65 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: that's a covers covers a large number of councils in 66 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: a large number of councils in the Wellington region. So 67 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: so I have to say, as a Wellingtonian, I'm very 68 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: interested to see whether they managed to fix the pipes. 69 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be nice, wouldn't it. Hey, what about rate capping? 70 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: This has been in the news today. Is this anything 71 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: we actually need to pay attention to, the Government's not 72 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: actually doing it yet? 73 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: Are they that they are? They are looking at it, 74 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: and they've said that they will that they are, you know, 75 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: continuing to work on it. Chris Hepkins was saying this 76 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: morning that he thinks it's not a great idea, disagrees 77 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: with it, and and and and basically said that the 78 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: reason the governments looking at rate capping as rates are 79 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: going up because the government xed the three waters reforms 80 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: that Labor was was putting into force. I think the 81 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: current government is keen to look at rate camping because 82 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: once once water services are lifted off council balance sheets, 83 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: then there is a risk that councils may use that 84 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 2: headroom to rate, to put up rates, and and and 85 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 2: continue to put up rates and spend the money on 86 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: things that that perps wouldn't be counted as core services. 87 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, good point, Thomas. Thank you very much 88 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: for that. Good to have you on the show as always, 89 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: Thomas Coglan, the New Zealand Herald Political Editor. For more 90 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: from Heather Duplassy Allen Drive, listen live to news talks. 91 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast 92 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.