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Speaker 1: When we talk about success of New Zealand tech companies,

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Speaker 1: there's always one name and one company that tops that list,

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Speaker 1: and that's Rod Dreary and Zero.

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Speaker 2: The Zero founders set out in two thousand and seven

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Speaker 2: to make accounting software a pleasure to use and fulfilled

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Speaker 2: his vision of creating a truly global tech company all

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Speaker 2: the way from Wellington.

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Speaker 1: In May this year, Zero reported one point seven billion

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Speaker 1: dollars in revenue, a jump of twenty two percent its

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Speaker 1: back end profit, and it is impressing the market with

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Speaker 1: its growth potential.

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Speaker 3: It sure is.

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Speaker 2: Zero's share price on the ASX had a healthy bump

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Speaker 2: after its full year results, which are really an endorsement

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Speaker 2: of how current CEO took kinder syn Cassidy, who's been

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Speaker 2: in the job for around sixteen months, is leading this

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Speaker 2: twenty billion dollar software giant.

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Speaker 1: But what about Drury? What's that guy been up to?

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Speaker 4: So I've been really thinking about what's our version of

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Speaker 4: Saturday Arabian oil?

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Speaker 5: And I think that's renewable electricity And I've spent a

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Speaker 5: lot of time I'm just pulling the string on that.

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Speaker 5: I think we should be doing. What we did, like

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Speaker 5: with UFB, is.

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Speaker 4: To structural separation of the electricity industry and have a

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Speaker 4: goal of you know, if you say you're going to

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Speaker 4: get to carbon zero, it's like going on a diet.

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Speaker 4: No one wants to do that, and you kind of

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Speaker 4: know you won't get there. Whereas if we reframed it

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Speaker 4: to having the lowest cost renewable energy in the world,

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Speaker 4: everyone gets that.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm Peter Griffin.

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Speaker 1: And I'm been more and on the business attack powered

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Speaker 1: by two Degrees Business. This week, we catch up with

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Speaker 1: Rod Drury, who's been largely off the radar in the

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Speaker 1: last few years, but clearly keeping busy on some post

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Speaker 1: zero projects.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he has, and really he did a little bit

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Speaker 2: over the pandemic. He did some web conferences and panel

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Speaker 2: discussions and that sort of thing. But Rod's been really

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Speaker 2: sort of off the radar in terms of media for

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Speaker 2: a few years now, and last year he stepped down

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Speaker 2: officially as a non executive director of Zero. He stepped

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Speaker 2: down from the board. He's still going in there to

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Speaker 2: work with the product people. He's very interested in where

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Speaker 2: the product roadmap is going. But I was really interested

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Speaker 2: in what else he's doing. We've heard a little bit

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Speaker 2: about projects brewing in Queenstown. He's a real passionate mountain biker,

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Speaker 2: so he's been working on some passion projects down there,

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Speaker 2: so I just really wanted to see where he's going.

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Speaker 2: So I literally had him around and we had a

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Speaker 2: chat a couple of weeks ago, and it was just

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Speaker 2: after the Apple Intelligence launch. He's a big passionate Apple fan,

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Speaker 2: so I wanted to get his views on that, reflecting

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Speaker 2: back over Zero and some of those forward looking things

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Speaker 2: that he's interested in. So a really good opportunity to

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Speaker 2: catch up with illuminary off the tech world in New Zealand.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's great timing as well. I just published a

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Speaker 1: story about Zero's use of AI either this week or

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Speaker 1: early next week, so that will be an interesting companion

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Speaker 1: read to this episode. I think the conversation you had

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Speaker 1: with Roderury dips into AI a little bit, but goes

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Speaker 1: much beyond that and really kind of talks about his

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Speaker 1: vision for New Zealand as a whole. Quite interesting to

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Speaker 1: hear his perspective considering the influential character that he is.

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Speaker 2: Here's my sit down with Rod Drury, Zero founder, done

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Speaker 2: lots of other stuff as well. A good opportunity to

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Speaker 2: catch up on exactly what he's up to. So Rod,

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Speaker 2: welcome to the business of tech. It's been a long time.

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Speaker 2: Great to see you. But I do remember quite clearly

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Speaker 2: back in two thousand and seven, we spent a couple

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Speaker 2: of days together in Silicon Valley, a group of Kiwi

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Speaker 2: tech entrepreneurs part of the Pole Blacks. This is the

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Speaker 2: Segway polo team that you were part of that was

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Speaker 2: playing Steve Wozniak's team, the co founder.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So that was.

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Speaker 2: Quite an interesting experience watching that sport that you were

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Speaker 2: involved in.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean I do dine out on that a bit.

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Speaker 4: I can tell people I was a national rep and

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Speaker 4: a sport the pole Blacks. Unfortunately, only criteria for being

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Speaker 4: a Pole Black was to own a Sedgeway, so you know,

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Speaker 4: it was a short lived sporting career.

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Speaker 2: And I remember down at the polo club on the

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Speaker 2: Front in San Francisco. They're very serious, you know, they

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Speaker 2: take that sport very seriously.

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Speaker 3: So that was fun.

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Speaker 2: But I think the next day what really struck with me.

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Speaker 2: This was just after the release of the iPhone, and

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Speaker 2: this obviously really inspired you. This was the original iPhone

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven, and we went for a

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Speaker 2: drive and you were telling us about the convergence off

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Speaker 2: cloud computing and the rise of this incredible mobile device.

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Speaker 2: And this was before the app store, but what you

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Speaker 2: would be able to do with applications on that device.

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Speaker 2: And you told us about what your plan was for Zero,

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Speaker 2: which it was just getting off the ground.

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Speaker 3: So it's incredible that journey.

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Speaker 2: Seventeen years later, Zero's last months reported its results one

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Speaker 2: point seven billion dollars in operating revenue, four point two

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Speaker 2: million customers. You pull it off exactly that vision you

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Speaker 2: had back in two thousand and seven to make accounting

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Speaker 2: software nice to use based on those fundamental technologies. Have

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Speaker 2: you ever paused, Have you had time to pull and

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Speaker 2: think and reflect on that journey that you've been on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's amazing seeing the results come out

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Speaker 4: last week. I actually went back went WHOA at one

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Speaker 4: point seven billion because I remember our first year, I

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Speaker 4: think we were the smallest, the smallest revenue of any

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Speaker 4: public company in the world, like one hundred and seventeen

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Speaker 4: grand I think was our first annual amount of revenue,

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Speaker 4: and then it was I we got to three hundred

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Speaker 4: and nine hundred. We used to know all the numbers

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Speaker 4: off by heart. And remember going to ten million was great.

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Speaker 4: And then you know, we used to have all those

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Speaker 4: summits and I remember Rod Aoram once he asked me

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Speaker 4: a question and I said, oh, you know, it's the

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Speaker 4: three B shouldn't be there, was it, Boat Batch and BMW.

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Speaker 4: They should be building billion dollar businesses from the beach.

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Speaker 5: Whenever I saw a Rod.

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Speaker 4: He kept reminding me of that, and we always had

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Speaker 4: those discussions about we just need a few more hundred

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Speaker 4: million dollar companies. So now we do one hundred million

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Speaker 4: a month, you know, and that was huge. I hadn't

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Speaker 4: realized that we actually made profit, like half a billion

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Speaker 4: of profit.

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Speaker 5: What the hell? Yeah, you know, and even.

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Speaker 2: The way back then, you wanted to grow this thing

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Speaker 2: from New Zealand and it's now ASX listed all around

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Speaker 2: the world, but still fundamentally in New Zealand business.

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Speaker 3: So you've you ticked off that goal. Yeah, pretty cool.

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Speaker 4: Just the community of other businesses have grown around us.

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Speaker 4: So we had an open ecosystem from day one and

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Speaker 4: a lot of my close friends were now people that

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Speaker 4: built their companion accounting software businesses around the platform that

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Speaker 4: we had.

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Speaker 5: And there were people used to see.

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Speaker 4: At all of our zero con events around the world

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Speaker 4: every year, and that's become a really key part of

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Speaker 4: my friend groups because we've had this shared history of

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Speaker 4: building cloud accounting over the last you know, fifteen seventeen

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Speaker 4: years has been amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you step down as a non executive director late

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Speaker 2: last year August twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: Or something like that.

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Speaker 5: Seventeen years of board meetings.

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Speaker 4: Man, Yeah, you know, of anyone you would not want

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Speaker 4: to have as a board member, it's me.

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Speaker 5: But I had to do it and it was nice.

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Speaker 4: And I said it at the annual meeting when we

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Speaker 4: started zero and my daughter was and she's at university now,

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Speaker 4: so literally her whole life and it was just time

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Speaker 4: to get off the all that travel and that sort

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Speaker 4: of stuff. But you know, a great team. I love

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Speaker 4: going in there and doing product strategy work. Still there's

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Speaker 4: you know, I keep saying, it's still just the beginning.

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Speaker 4: We built this amazing platform, and it's neat when you

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Speaker 4: see new bits of technology like AI is obviously the

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Speaker 4: new thing, and everyone's talking about large language models. We

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Speaker 4: have probably the largest financial model and such a by

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Speaker 4: doing boring accounting, we just have this amazing graph of

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Speaker 4: financial information for small businesses all over the world, and

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Speaker 4: we have so much customer to demand to do things.

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Speaker 4: It's been to allocated enough resources and time to do

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Speaker 4: some of the cool things I've always wanted to.

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Speaker 5: Do over the top.

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Speaker 4: But I just watched Zero Con in London a few

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Speaker 4: days ago, and you know, we've got this just zero

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Speaker 4: product which is starting to unlock that. But we're just

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Speaker 4: at the beginning. There's so much more we can do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that you know you saw back then, obviously

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Speaker 2: cloud computing and then the app economy which you sort

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Speaker 2: of built on and fostered yourself with zero and all

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Speaker 2: the companies that plug into that ecosystem. So now obviously

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Speaker 2: generative AI. We've had AI throughout the last twenty years

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Speaker 2: in various guises, but it's really exploded with jen Ai.

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Speaker 2: You've got jacks, as you say, being built into zero.

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Speaker 2: But what's your take on what this fundamentally means for

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Speaker 2: software development and the opportunities potentially for New Zealand software

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Speaker 2: developers to Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty cautious about new trends like blockchain. I never

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Speaker 4: got you know, I never thought that the city bitcoined out.

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Speaker 4: I never thought that sovereign governments want to lose control

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Speaker 4: of the money supply. So it's been interesting watching AI.

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Speaker 4: It does look like there really is something there. But

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Speaker 4: I watched the ww DC Apple keynote last week, and

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Speaker 4: you know what you can do with generative AI is

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Speaker 4: you know, that's been pretty amazing over the last year

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Speaker 4: watching that. But you know, we knew that Apple was

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Speaker 4: acquiring a lot of AI technologies and what they have

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Speaker 4: done with their personal AI where it can mind your

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Speaker 4: own messages and emails and then you ask the question

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Speaker 4: what time is Mum's flight coming in tomorrow? That's kind

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Speaker 4: of that feels really cool. That's going to touch everybody,

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Speaker 4: so I think it's quite exciting. But my big dilemma

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Speaker 4: is I've managed to avoid all those mail clients and

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Speaker 4: just been having Gmail on my phone and being able

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Speaker 4: to just get a picture of my email and not

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Speaker 4: have to download everything. But now we've got this opt

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Speaker 4: in decision whether we want to go for personal AI,

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Speaker 4: which is the LinkedIn post I wrote last week that

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Speaker 4: you ping.

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Speaker 5: Me back on. So that's really interesting.

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Speaker 4: Things are changing, and thinking about what Apple's done from

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Speaker 4: a competitive point of view is so interesting, Like what

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Speaker 4: does it mean with their Google relationship. Where does Google

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Speaker 4: go now? And then the amount of lock and we'll

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Speaker 4: get with personal AI. It's a big decision. Some people

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Speaker 4: we saw in the comments of the post is just

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Speaker 4: completely don't want to be locked in, and other people

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Speaker 4: will surrender it to it for convenience. After the Apple keynote,

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Speaker 4: things have got really interesting in the AI aispace and

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Speaker 4: watching a lot of that at the moment.

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Speaker 3: It is really interesting.

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Speaker 2: And even in the Windows space as well with the

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Speaker 2: Copilot PCs, Microsoft is doing a similar thing with a

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Speaker 2: neural processing unit on needs devices. So the idea of

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Speaker 2: doing a lot more of this intensive stuff on the

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Speaker 2: device instead of constantly having to go to the cloud.

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Speaker 2: That starts to change the dynamic and the angst around

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Speaker 2: sustainability and data centers. Everything is happening on these increasingly

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Speaker 2: powerful devices that are sitting in front of you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's everything's changing. It's interesting.

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Speaker 4: I've sort of poo poo the idea of doing a

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Speaker 4: big data center in the South because we're always remember

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Speaker 4: the Pacific Fiber days, we're always one hundred million seconds

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Speaker 4: from the States, and a lot of the financial apps

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Speaker 4: need that super fast speed.

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Speaker 5: But now we're training for AI.

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Speaker 4: The biggest constraint is a renewable green electricity and doing

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Speaker 4: a data center down there and with a potentially there's

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Speaker 4: talk of a new cable from in the cargo to

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Speaker 4: Sydney and Melbourne. That kind of makes sense now because

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Speaker 4: we could have an abundance of renewable electricity, which is

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Speaker 4: a constraint. And of course in the electricity industry, no

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Speaker 4: one was modeling. Janitor of AI is going to take

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Speaker 4: off in a few years, so we should be, you know,

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Speaker 4: ten xing our supply of green electricity. And I saw

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Speaker 4: the numbers. You know, a lot of places in Europe

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Speaker 4: absolutely running out of electricity, and so there's a direct

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Speaker 4: link between it's happening in AI and opportunities for us

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Speaker 4: here in New Zealand where that one hundred milliseconds doesn't matter.

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Speaker 5: Lots of excitement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So you describe yourself on LinkedIn these days as

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Speaker 2: fun employed.

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Speaker 3: What have you been doing?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So, like when I left Zero, I think we had

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Speaker 4: about two and a half thousand people. We're up to

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Speaker 4: about five thousand. We're in the falls now. It's a

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Speaker 4: pretty big organization. It becomes less about doing product work

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Speaker 4: and more around you know how you run a global

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Speaker 4: organizational as people think. So Steve was perfect to come

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Speaker 4: in and run that part of the business and that

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Speaker 4: got us to a point where we were able to

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Speaker 4: land like a really good global CEO. And sekinda's doing

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Speaker 4: an amazing job. There's a great article for we had

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Speaker 4: on her and Forbes just in the last few days.

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Speaker 5: I picked a note last night, just so.

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Speaker 4: Proud of her and hearing her story. And I always

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Speaker 4: think they're companies. I always get a bit embarrassed about

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Speaker 4: the founder thing. I think it's a bit like having children.

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Speaker 4: They go off and do their own things. So I've

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Speaker 4: never been precious about it. And you know, I'm just

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Speaker 4: proud this thing has a life and other people can

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Speaker 4: go and do it. So what was interesting about Zero

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Speaker 4: was it you know, it was just being a public company.

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Speaker 4: It's just a roller coaster you can't get off. And

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Speaker 4: you know, every half year, thank goodness, every half year,

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Speaker 4: not every quarter. We do our financial results where every

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Speaker 4: dollar you spent, every taxi that everyone spent, any business

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Speaker 4: class fair. You're standing there in front of the market

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Speaker 4: explaining it. And then you know that you can't hide

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Speaker 4: from the revenue numbers as well. Right, So it was,

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Speaker 4: you know, twelve fifteen years of pretty stressful public eye.

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Speaker 4: Great fun, but it does this roller coaster you just

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Speaker 4: can't get off. And I kind of figured, you know,

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Speaker 4: we were a twenty four y seven business on Christmas Day,

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Speaker 4: there's you know, one hundred thousand people on the servers.

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Speaker 5: It just doesn't stop.

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Speaker 4: So I figured I'd kind of accordioned my career into

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Speaker 4: a shorter amount of time. So when I stopped, I

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Speaker 4: did lily said, well, I'm not going to go and

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Speaker 4: work again. If I wanted to keep working, I'd start

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Speaker 4: at zero because there's so much more to do and

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Speaker 4: in a good you know, fortunate to be in a

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Speaker 4: good position financially where I could do some other things.

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Speaker 5: While we were doing zero.

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Speaker 4: I was really holding this idea of a Chief Technology

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Speaker 4: Officer of New Zealand and got that through his policy.

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Speaker 5: But you kind of have that normal dilemma in New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: You don't really you know, once you've kind of come

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Speaker 4: out of the public eye, you don't want to be

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Speaker 4: accountable for too much. So people that kind of were

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Speaker 4: asked to do it didn't really want to do it,

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Speaker 4: and then you end up with a.

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Speaker 5: Committee doing things and not too much has happened.

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Speaker 4: So I kind of feel, as I've been riding my

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Speaker 4: bikes in Queenstown, what are those really big projects where

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Speaker 4: someone like me who has the you know, time and

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Speaker 4: interest to do good things for New Zealand, how how

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Speaker 4: can we or how can I go and help and

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Speaker 4: move things forward? Because when you don't have a vested interest,

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Speaker 4: you can actually have really good conversations. So I've been

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Speaker 4: really thinking about, you know, what's our version of Saturday

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Speaker 4: Arabian oil? And I think it's renewable electricity. So I've

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Speaker 4: spent a lot of time just pulling the string on that.

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Speaker 4: You know, we only store two months worth of water.

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Speaker 4: The way the market works, you know, we will never

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Speaker 4: get to one hundred percent renewable electricity, and we still

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Speaker 4: have quite high electricity where we know there's no marginal cost.

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Speaker 4: It's you know, of of hydro, it's the cost of

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Speaker 4: infrastructure and the more units you use, the cheaper it

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Speaker 4: should be. Right, So in theory, you could basically set

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Speaker 4: eultricity prices wherever you like if you had unlimited supply.

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Speaker 5: So where I've landed on that is I.

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Speaker 4: Think we should be doing what we did, like with

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Speaker 4: the UFB is do structural separation of the electricity industry

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Speaker 4: and have a goal of you know, if you say

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Speaker 4: you're going to get to cart zeris like going on

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Speaker 4: a diet. No one wants to do that and you

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Speaker 4: kind of know you won't get there. Whereas if we

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Speaker 4: reframed it to having the lowest cost renewable energy in

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Speaker 4: the world, everyone gets that right. It's great for business,

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Speaker 4: it's great for consumers, it's great for making life more

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Speaker 4: affordable for people. I've being based in Queenstown quite a

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Speaker 4: lot where we actually make electricity, a lot of it

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Speaker 4: around that Southland area. There's an idea of do we

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Speaker 4: kind of start down there and use Southland as a

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Speaker 4: test lad for changing the electricity market. So that's been

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Speaker 4: really interesting getting involved with that. So we're looking at

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Speaker 4: thickening up all the power lines around Southland, getting an

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Speaker 4: intervention from government to move the rental car fleet and

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Speaker 4: campavan fleet to all electric, which lifts the demand and

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Speaker 4: then we can afford to spend more on infrastructure down there,

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Speaker 4: putting a new cable from Kingston to Franktin so we

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Speaker 4: get our diverse electricity supply. In fixing Queenstown's public transport.

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Speaker 4: It's a really interesting model that I go from the States.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Neil jacob Stein talks about the pat model, population

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Speaker 4: affluence and technology. If you want to keep lifestyle as

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Speaker 4: population grows, you've got to use technology, and Queen Sound

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Speaker 4: to me feels like the perfect test.

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Speaker 5: Lab for doing some of those things.

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Speaker 4: So through COVID we looked at small autonomous buses to

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Speaker 4: fix the transport problems. And what I've kind of worked

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Speaker 4: out is that you know, there's no money in central

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Speaker 4: government with all the things that have happened in the

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Speaker 4: last year. It was even less in local government and

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Speaker 4: being able to partner. It's all about how do you

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Speaker 4: raise the money to do these things. The Aussie super

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Speaker 4: funds have trillions of dollars sitting there. They would normally

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Speaker 4: give it out to fund managers to invest in Amazon, Google,

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Speaker 4: Ali Barber, companies that won't pay domestic tax and creating

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Speaker 4: employment issues. They're actually looking for good domestic infrastructure to

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Speaker 4: invest in so they get an outcome. So rather than

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Speaker 4: asking the government for money, I think the model is,

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Speaker 4: let's actually, you know what we have as an opportunity

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Speaker 4: here in Zealand is a be this global test lab

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Speaker 4: as we have in the past, but be working with

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Speaker 4: those super funds New Zealand super Fun, Australian super funds

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Speaker 4: work with local bodies and float up these proof of

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Speaker 4: concepts that those overseas investors can get a working site

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Speaker 4: like in Queenstown. So the business case for fixing public

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Speaker 4: transport in Queenstown is not Queenstown. It's not putting another

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Speaker 4: whole through Mount Victoria and it's taking three or four

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Speaker 4: billion out of Auckland light Rail. So you know, one

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Speaker 4: example of that is the is the Wish cable car

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Speaker 4: where the cables fixed and the motors are in the

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Speaker 4: cable cars, so low marginal cost once you've got that.

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Speaker 4: And we've been looking at this really cool technology called Dromos,

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Speaker 4: which a little four person electric bus pods which operate

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Speaker 4: in a one point four meter wide dedicated lane, so

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Speaker 4: they're not robotaxis that integrate with traffic. They just go

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Speaker 4: down essentially a cycleway, so it's a bit of curb

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Speaker 4: and channel which is pretty cheap and you can actually

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Speaker 4: fit that in the road constraints we have because we

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Speaker 4: need an autonomous solution, because to get a bar worker

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Speaker 4: home at two in the morning and a ski worker

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Speaker 4: to the to the bus first thing in the morning,

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Speaker 4: so bus drivers don't really work and it's quite a

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Speaker 4: small place where we could fix it. So Glenn Sowery,

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Speaker 4: the airport CEO, he's given us some land to do

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Speaker 4: a trial could be airport rental car. So trying to

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Speaker 4: actually do things in New Zealand's got really hard.

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Speaker 5: But because I've got.

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Speaker 4: Time, I can just go and do all the meetings

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Speaker 4: and see where the barrier is and say hey, why

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Speaker 4: don't we And that's been really fun talking to ministers

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Speaker 4: and officials you know, mayors, and you know, well, why

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Speaker 4: can't we do it?

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Speaker 5: What's the what you know?

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Speaker 4: The big thing is can we actually go and not

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Speaker 4: ask them for money, but just permission to do it

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Speaker 4: and raise that money?

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Speaker 2: Well, it seems to be the frame of mind of

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Speaker 2: the coalition government at the moment. There's no money anyways,

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Speaker 2: so but we will fast track things. We will allow

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Speaker 2: you to cut through the red tape. What would you

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Speaker 2: take on the parking the pumped hydro like Onslow in

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Speaker 2: favor of consenting more renewables.

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Speaker 4: What was good about Onslow is we actually talked about

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Speaker 4: doing some more dams because I think, you know, our

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Speaker 4: competitive advantage is having hills and having rain. And if

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Speaker 4: we think of water as an asset, which I think

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Speaker 4: it is, then you can clean rivers, you can do

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Speaker 4: more plant based proteins downstream. There's a whole lot of

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Speaker 4: goodness comes from it. But when you're in New Zealand,

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Speaker 4: there's two key values. You've got to worry about the environment,

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Speaker 4: and you've got to think about equality as well. That's

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Speaker 4: a very key value that New Zealanders have, which doesn't

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Speaker 4: exist in many other places as well. So you've got

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Speaker 4: to think about everything through that lens. And you know,

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Speaker 4: I was chatting to a geny Sage and James show around.

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Speaker 4: We should do some more water storage. It's not thinking

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Speaker 4: about the supply side. Get people excited about the demand side.

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Speaker 4: So again, if we said, hey, look we're a small country.

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Speaker 4: You can't flow more than an hour and a half

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Speaker 4: in any direction. What about in ten years we completely

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Speaker 4: made the domestic aviation fleet electric, so you'd have super

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Speaker 4: cheap flying and no carbon gilt. Do you want that? Yes,

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Speaker 4: that sounds great. Right, let's have a mature discussion around

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Speaker 4: water storage. And I think now with energy, sovereignty and

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Speaker 4: all those sort of things that conversation is happening. And

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Speaker 4: what's been nice with all the work we've been doing,

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Speaker 4: the conversations had over the last five years, you're actually

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Speaker 4: hearing things like structural separation of electricity is being repeated

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Speaker 4: and said, and we saw that with UFB.

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Speaker 5: Right, we have amazing internet.

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Speaker 4: Because it's really hard to have public companies invest in

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Speaker 4: infrastructure because it's a long term. Yet there's a whole

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Speaker 4: lot of infrastructure funds that are looking to earn a

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Speaker 4: say five to seven percent, So you know what structural

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Speaker 4: separation of electricity could be as we buy all the

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Speaker 4: lines and there's the entity like Chorus for telecommunications, so

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Speaker 4: that's kind of fading a little bit. But imagine if

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Speaker 4: we had that infrastructure company that had transpower and the

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Speaker 4: gen generation in it. It just pays its five percent,

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Speaker 4: so the super funds are happy and there's a regulated

441
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 4: wholesale price. The goal of it could be to have

442
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 4: really good ultricity supply, get to one hundred percent renewable,

443
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 4: but also give us the lowest cost wholesale price. And

444
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 4: as they get more money through those connection fees and

445
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 4: that wholesale price, then they can invest more in the network.

446
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 4: So infrastructure should be funded by infrastructure funds and then

447
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 4: retail investors should invest in risk so smart networks meters

448
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 4: and like, this isn't something that would happen overnight. So

449
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 4: the existing listed entities energy companies which are vertically integrated

450
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 4: have ten or fifteen years to you know, to modify

451
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 4: their business to do the risky stuff over the.

452
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 5: Top, knowing they've got the lowest.

453
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 4: Possible electricity wholesale price they can go for. So I

454
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 4: mean that's you know, to me, that is one of

455
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 4: the really big vision things we could be doing in

456
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 4: New Zealand.

457
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know they are talking up at the

458
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: moment what they did with UFB and the success of

459
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 2: that and trying to replicate that model with the Crown

460
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 2: fiber hole in and do it on different types of projects.

461
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,719
Speaker 2: What's your sense with this coalition government? You've been interested

462
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: in politics, You've been a donor to the act Party,

463
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: so you've now.

464
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 5: Got international into the Greens, right.

465
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, so you've spread the money around, you're interested

466
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 2: in politics. What do you make about this coalition? And

467
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: it's what it's articulating for you know, some of the

468
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 2: stuff we need to happen, but it's going to take

469
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: maybe thirty to fifty year vision.

470
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,159
Speaker 4: I think I think everyone's in the right place, and

471
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 4: the reality is is that they've got more to do

472
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 4: every day than they've got time to do. So I

473
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 4: think you've got to understand what their goals are and then.

474
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 5: Do the work.

475
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 4: And the big thing is like there's no money. So

476
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 4: I think that's where it's interesting. We're business people like

477
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,239
Speaker 4: me who are used to raising money in Australia and

478
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 4: working with overseas investors. I didn't understand much about infrastructure,

479
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 4: but I have understood it over the last few years.

480
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 4: I think that's where we can help, where we can say, okay,

481
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 4: we know what we want to do as a country.

482
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 4: We actually had the relationship's going to raise the money,

483
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 4: we want to do it fair. We have different goals here.

484
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 4: There'll be a commercial return, but the appropriate return for

485
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 4: the risk. And then but we you know, we want

486
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 4: to build something that's intergenerational. So I mean, I'm you know,

487
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 4: I'm probably the whitest Natahu people person that you've met.

488
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 4: But you know, one of the values we had at

489
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 4: zero was that.

490
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 5: Long term intergenerational thinking.

491
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 4: And my father Ken he was when he was around

492
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 4: he was very proud of his Natalia upbringing. So I've

493
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 4: been reconnecting back with the tribe. Got to spend a

494
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 4: lot of time with Ta Tipinay of the last year

495
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: and a lot of the senior people there, and they're

496
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 4: thinking about these intergenerational things. And what I love about

497
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,640
Speaker 4: our Kinnomari thinking, which is part about his Zealand culture,

498
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 4: is that long term intergenerational thinking, and that really ties

499
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: in really.

500
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 5: Well with infrastructure as well.

501
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 4: So there's some real positives around lining people up and

502
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: getting us thinking long term and thinking about, you know,

503
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 4: things being better for our children and what do we

504
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 4: leave behind. So and I think, what you know, when

505
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 4: you've had the business success that we had with zero,

506
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 4: then that's the natural thing moving away from that kind

507
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 4: of three year thinking to that long term thinking, which

508
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 4: is why it's quite good backing some of these strategy

509
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 4: stuff into Natahu, which is an intergenerational organization, makes a

510
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: whole lot of sense. So yeah, it's been a really

511
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,640
Speaker 4: nice connection getting that long term thing in it. When

512
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 4: you have heavy sessions, everyone's like, yeah, yeah, that's great.

513
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 5: But it's all.

514
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 4: About implementation, manifesting action, getting things happening, and I think

515
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 4: coming from business where again you're judged every six months.

516
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 5: You just naturally biased towards getting things done.

517
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 4: Appropriate action is one of our values and you know,

518
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 4: after every meeting, what's the next step?

519
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 5: How do we get to it? Why can't we do that?

520
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we have done that in pockets.

521
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: I think in New Zealand the space industry has been

522
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 2: sort of fantastic and Peter Beck's been at the height

523
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: of that. The software is a service in this area.

524
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 2: But there's other areas that it's just very high for

525
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: us to get traction and like you know, the energy stuff.

526
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 2: Why is that some areas we've done well. In other

527
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: areas we're just banging our heads against the brick wall.

528
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 4: I think we've been really timid as a nation over

529
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 4: the last ten years and we've just been scared to,

530
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 4: you know, to take that step and be accountable. So

531
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 4: that gets very frustrating for a business person, right where

532
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 4: you have to deliver or you publicly fail. And I

533
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 4: think that's getting the the partnership working with government is

534
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 4: that where you actually drive, you know, you push things.

535
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 5: You don't take no for an answer.

536
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 4: Straight away, you actually push, push a little bit harder

537
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 4: to make things happen, and then if you can start

538
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 4: changing that culture, then I think it is a culture change.

539
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 5: So finding a few iconic.

540
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,199
Speaker 4: Projects that actually are used to change culture is the

541
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 4: way to do it. So and picking a bite sized chunk,

542
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 4: So running a renewable energy strategy in Southland makes a

543
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 4: whole lot of sense, and then we can get the

544
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 4: model working.

545
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 5: People can see.

546
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: Actually that wasn't that hard. Everyone everyone wins. It's been

547
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 4: done for the right reasons. So when I say that

548
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 4: we're timid, like mean that, and we're not looking at

549
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 4: the effect of globalization that's happening on small countries like ourselves.

550
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 4: So what we're seeing with tech is global operators that

551
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 4: are funded out of the low cost capital environment to

552
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 4: build global platforms with low marginal cost coming into being

553
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 4: able to enter each new market, you know, really easily.

554
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 4: So one of the projects I've picked up, I was

555
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 4: just chatting to Minister Bailey last week about it. As

556
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 4: credit card surcharges, it's not suddenly they're everywhere, and you

557
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 4: know there's no cost of moving money, Like moving money

558
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,240
Speaker 4: costs less than a cent, you know, it's one hundredth

559
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: of a cent. Yet we're paying these percentage fees, so

560
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 4: we've got a three or four percent inflation across everybody.

561
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 4: But it's just untidy. These things are meant to be contactless,

562
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 4: but we don't have to content them.

563
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 5: We've got to.

564
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 4: Accept the surcharge. And why is it a percentage fee?

565
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: Costantly no more money to move. So there's been a

566
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: whole lot of reasons why banks have been incentivized to

567
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 4: move transactions off our great fpost networ work onto overseas rails.

568
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 4: But these multinationals, you know, with a very few staff,

569
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 4: are taking I think it might be two or three

570
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 4: billion dollars out of New Zealand booking dot Com up

571
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: to thirty percent sometimes more of chargers to our tourism

572
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 4: operators here and they don't get the cash till like

573
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: a year later when the.

574
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: Service has been fulfilled.

575
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 4: So doing a little bit of work with New Zealand

576
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: Tourism on creating a data architecture where we all work

577
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 4: together as a team.

578
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 5: Another project I've been.

579
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 4: Picking up as well, So some of those big picture

580
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 4: things that are long term things to fix. Having a

581
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 4: lot of fun just leaning into those projects.

582
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: Well that's great because there's so much potential in our

583
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: fintech space, and you know there are a lot of

584
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 2: really cool startups working in New Zealand in that area,

585
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: but they are constrained because the environment here. Working with

586
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: the big banks, they are a stumbling block, are opposition

587
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 2: to a lot of the innovation. You know, there is

588
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: supposedly the consumer data right coming, so things are just

589
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: so slow to get off the ground. But something like

590
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: as you say, we've got this great FPOs network that

591
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: has served us, well, why can't we just do contactless

592
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: through that as the primary voice?

593
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 4: Well that's fascinating too because now the phone operators Apple

594
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 4: primarily are in the space right so they won't unlock

595
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: the secure enclave so you can do face id direct

596
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 4: banking or whatever. And even the a triple CE in

597
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 4: Australia with Australian banks couldn't break that a few years ago.

598
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 4: So maybe we've got to link our regulatory environment to Europe.

599
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 4: So they've had wins with USBC, wins with the app

600
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 4: store because we're too small, but maybe we've got a

601
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 4: link and so we can open those up. And you

602
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 4: would have seen on the Apple develop a keynote. They're

603
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 4: now doing that kind of Venmo Apple card to cards,

604
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 4: so with you know, as soon as Apple came out

605
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 4: with the credit cards, surely then they're vertically integrated all

606
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 4: the way through and they should have to unlock the

607
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 4: secure enclave.

608
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 5: Got to be careful though.

609
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: I don't want to wake up with a horse head

610
00:28:54,360 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 4: in my bed, point the breaks go in my car

611
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 4: and the sort of while you know you can ever.

612
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: Look, Yeah, you're obviously having good, good conversations, really productive

613
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: things with ministers and that. Yeah, that idea that you

614
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: floated for the CTO for New Zealand sort of seems

615
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: like we still really need it. Was it really disappointing

616
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: to you how that sort of fizzled out? Was that

617
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: frustrating to you to see that the way that played out?

618
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 3: Oh?

619
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 4: No, it's kind of fun to watch. But that's the thing.

620
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 4: You know, New Zealanders don't want to put their head

621
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 4: up too much. But you know, after being in the

622
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 4: NBR every day with open comments, you.

623
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 5: Develop a bit of a thick skin.

624
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: So I don't I don't want to get paid to

625
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 4: do anything or have to do anything. I really do

626
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: like doing these fun, big projects, but you don't have

627
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: to spend every day doing them. You can just nudge

628
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 4: them along and have really stimulating conversations.

629
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

630
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I just want to be ambitious

631
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: for New Zealand. And remember back in the old Results

632
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 4: Area nine days where we looked at how to be

633
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 4: the most efficient.

634
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: Consumer to government. You know, I think that should still

635
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 5: be our goal, right.

636
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 4: We should be the poster child where people come down

637
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 4: here to see how things are done and you know,

638
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 4: having good chats with Doo. Hopefully will have online driver's

639
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 4: license so that it'll be part of your Apple Walllet

640
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 4: it'll be a cool one. Working on digital identity is

641
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 4: super interesting. That touches everything we're doing.

642
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

643
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of fun things to do and

644
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: they're good to spend time on.

645
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: And that digital identity is integral. We've got the Digital

646
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: Identity Trust framework that they're building here. What's your take

647
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: on that. Does it make sense for the government to

648
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 2: sort of build a bigger version of real me? Do

649
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 2: we need that sort of authentication?

650
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think you do. You just want the key.

651
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 4: What I've been saying is kind of identity has been

652
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 4: one you know, sign them with Apple sign of a

653
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 4: Google sign on Facebook whatever, link that to your real

654
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 4: me ID and then so it's really easy for consumers

655
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 4: to get to it. And that's only that kind of

656
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: winning of sin Ons only happened in the last couple

657
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 4: of years. So when you're running ten year projects and

658
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 4: things are moving so quickly, you do have to be

659
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 4: you know, maybe we're too early with real Me, but

660
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 4: I think that could be solved elegantly now. Tech Spaan's

661
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 4: a really good one. We've put some solutions up to

662
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 4: DIA that could be quite easily solved. I love the

663
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: idea of it, all of government messaging app so you

664
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: can sign them with real Me and then you only

665
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: have one application for government, and then smaller agencies can

666
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 4: drop messaging in. So the Atomic Technology great company, we've

667
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 4: kind of solved that problem. So working with for government

668
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 4: agencies on that at the moment. But I think what

669
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 4: we're seeing through these processes is getting government to say, hey,

670
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 4: just reach out to industry. You've got a bunch of

671
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 4: smart people, you know what don at Rise has done,

672
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: and a bunch of other good multinationals. They've got the solutions.

673
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: And New Zealand's so subscale we don't have to reinvent

674
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 4: the wheel with a lot of things. But we're also

675
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 4: small enough we can do cool things and be seen

676
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 4: as lee in the world of this like we used

677
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: to be ten twenty years ago.

678
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: There was attempts, you know, Siien Taylor and others during

679
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: COVID sort of tried to get a lot of this

680
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: sort of stuff going in a short time frame solutions

681
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: to this crisis that we had.

682
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: It sort of didn't really go very well.

683
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: That collaboration Sam Morgan was involved in there, trying to

684
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: basically help the government out to with technology to get

685
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: things done. Quacker, Do you get a sense that there's

686
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: more scope for for that sort of interaction now?

687
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.

688
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 4: I think the rise of the big cloud platforms, you know, Aws, Google,

689
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: Microsoft with Azure. You know, there's just the ability to

690
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 4: spin up things were pretty low initial upfront cost. And

691
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: we're so small ony five million people, you know, which

692
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 4: is which is the size of a US city. But

693
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: you've seen that the conversation definitely changed. I had a

694
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 4: really good, interesting conversation and so daa yesterday around well,

695
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: rethink the partnering model just you know, allow New Zealand

696
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: vendors to come in with their overseas partners and define

697
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: the problem, not the solution, and then let smart people

698
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 4: go and do it and just try a few small

699
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 4: ones first and don't be scared of that, and then

700
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 4: hopefully we can just speed things up about So there

701
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 4: is that cultural change to speed things up. But you know,

702
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 4: we have to be aware too that we are part

703
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 4: of a global world. And one of the things that's

704
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: frustrating is we haven't had a national conversation around where

705
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 4: we sit in the world post COVID and with this,

706
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: with this globalization where workers can work anywhere in the world.

707
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 4: So I mean, we're not at zero, We're not really

708
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 4: competing against local businesses. We're competing against Microsoft, Amazon. We've

709
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: got former colleagues that are living in Queenstown and Wanaka

710
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 4: working for these big multinationals. Like things have changed, So

711
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 4: do we want to welcome the smartest in the world?

712
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 4: In especially geopolitically, we're still seen as a pretty safe place.

713
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 4: But for some reason we've seen to worry about people

714
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 4: coming in here and buying houses. Yet we said let's

715
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: put a tax on them. Everyone said, well, that's fine.

716
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 4: Then we knew our price. But unfortunately, the way the

717
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 4: coalition worked, we didn't have that. So you've got super

718
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 4: bright people in the world that want to come and

719
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 4: live here and contribute, and we keep them out, which

720
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 4: seems nuts.

721
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does.

722
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: So obviously, you know you've made money from zero, which

723
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 2: is great for you doing philanthropic stuff, but you're also

724
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: investing some of that money back in Radio Ventures is

725
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 2: the company you're involved in, Yeah, tell us about what

726
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: you're doing.

727
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 4: There.

728
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: Apparently a deep tech sort of focus to that.

729
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

730
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 4: So again, because I've done all I've done all this

731
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: quite a lot, I don't really want to go and

732
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time in business. I want to

733
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 4: do other things like ride mount and bikes and go

734
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 4: wing foiling and that sort of stuff, and sold these

735
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 4: big New Zealand projects. But just as you know, part

736
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 4: of my portfolio, Rate Adventures is our vcarm and it's

737
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 4: fun being involved with founders. We brought a whole lot

738
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 4: of them to Wellington last year and showed them around

739
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 4: and getting portfolios together and seeing them help each.

740
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 5: Other is really cool.

741
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 4: So that one there is kind of deep tech, you know,

742
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 4: done sas and that's I'm not too interested in that,

743
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 4: but you know deep research. Atlanta who runs the fund,

744
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 4: she's had her own health issues, so she's you know

745
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 4: fascinated in medical tech and that kind of gets you

746
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: to AI. Applied AI is kind of interesting as well.

747
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 4: So that's kind of more moonshot fun stuff where we're

748
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 4: an open star here, which is incredible interesting.

749
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: Across from US here they're fusion reacting that they're building.

750
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't understand why Radhi doesn't have a T

751
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 4: shirt that says, actually, I am a nuclear scientist. So

752
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 4: there's some really cool stuff happening in New Zealand. So

753
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 4: doing a bit of that.

754
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: So just on that you you said you've done the

755
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 2: SAS thing. Yeah, are you still excited as with that

756
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: as a category for New Zealand? Oh yeah, that would

757
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 2: continue to be a major tech sort of generator.

758
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 5: Of income for us.

759
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm involved with a few of those, yeah,

760
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: but also doing some really kind of interesting physical things.

761
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 4: So I kind of feel like when you're in a place,

762
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 4: you want to make it the best place you can.

763
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 4: So doing a lot in Queenstown that's leading to the

764
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 4: recloaking of Coronet Peak, cleaning up of some of the

765
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 4: waterways down there. That's been fun, and that ties on

766
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: with a lot of stuff I'm doing with Nitahu as well.

767
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 4: You know, spending a bit of money with Southern Lake

768
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 4: Sanctuary doing predator work, which ties in there's some really

769
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: neat technology and with that as well. So yeah, it's fun,

770
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 4: like the real luxury. Very lucky to be able to

771
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 4: just play with a few fun things, identify great founders

772
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 4: and give them a bit of advice and just let

773
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: them go and do their thing.

774
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in terms of where we're going as a nation,

775
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: we haven't, as you say, we haven't really had that

776
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 2: conversation post COVID where we are in the world. We're

777
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: starting to have a conversation geopolitically about where we are

778
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: and Orcus is at the height of that. Do we

779
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: join pillar two of Orcus watch your view on this?

780
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: Sitting on the sidelines this debate, this tension of how

781
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 2: close do we need to be to China in the

782
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,959
Speaker 2: next decade, the political tensions between the US and China

783
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: sort of exacerbated and they go into polar opposite fields

784
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: on technology. They're not sharing advanced technology.

785
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 3: What does that mean for us?

786
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're seeing the sort of bifurcation of the Internet,

787
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 5: aren't you. Yeah. Three, the instincts we've had, we still

788
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 5: have free trade agreements with China in the States.

789
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 3: Last time A look, definitely with China.

790
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, so maybe we're the broker, maybe the sky towers

791
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 4: where you know, everything kind of links together.

792
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 5: But that is a real dance.

793
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 4: Remember when Jacinda first came in, I think Turnbull, whereas

794
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 4: part of five Eyes, said look, you have to turn

795
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 4: Hawaiki off when we were, you know, basically using them

796
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 4: to vendor finance our five G network. So she was

797
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 4: under a huge amount of pressure to do that, and

798
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 4: suddenly our farming produce was being blocked on China wharfs

799
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 4: and English as the second language students weren't coming. So

800
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, China plays to win and uses

801
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 4: all the pressure, and I mean that was an interesting

802
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 4: Actually did someone ask her about that, because that was

803
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 4: a very tough time, just as she came in as

804
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 4: Prime Minister. And you know, we're pretty we have this nice,

805
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 4: kind of naive version of the world. But I think

806
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 4: people will tell you there's there is a lot of

807
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 4: tension going on between those places. I think, you know,

808
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 4: with what's happening politically in the US at the moment,

809
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 4: there's a lot of fear over there. And again I

810
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,959
Speaker 4: don't understand why we're not making people welcome to come

811
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 4: here invest here, because you know, all the overseas people

812
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 4: that I've met, they come and you pay GST on everything.

813
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 4: You don't really they don't use much roads, they don't

814
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 4: use much hospital, they don't use much school, you.

815
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 5: Know, and they want to connect.

816
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 4: They want to whenever you go into a new community,

817
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 4: you want to be useful and make friends. I've always

818
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 4: founded a really good experience with the overseas people that

819
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 4: we've had here, and you know, in simply Queenstown, there's

820
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 4: a lot of Americans in Australia that are that are

821
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 4: here that have always been big contributors to New Zealand

822
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 4: and massive fans.

823
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, what's your advice to you know, software

824
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs at the moment, Is this a good time to

825
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: launch something? They always say, don't let this opportunity go.

826
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: It's a great time to test your metal and have

827
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 2: a lean operation. The vcs are looking for really lean

828
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: operations at the moment. They don't have as much capital.

829
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 2: What's your advice to people who are coming up like

830
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 2: you were launching zero back in twenty seven to two

831
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: thousand and seven.

832
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad I don't have to do it again

833
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 4: because it was so much hard work. But I mean,

834
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 4: we'll be lucky at zero because it goes well when

835
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 4: it's booming, and when things are tight, people you know,

836
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 4: get displaced out of corporate roles and start their own

837
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 4: small businesses. So even when things have been tight as

838
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 4: a sector, the small business sector, there'll be hot spots

839
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 4: and cold spots, but generally has been okay, as we've

840
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 4: seen with all of our numbers, so that's been good,

841
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 4: but it is really tough, like Wellington at the moment,

842
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 4: a lot of people are being restructured out. But yeah,

843
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 4: we does feel like we're a little bit stagnant here

844
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 4: at the moment and a lot of our brightest have gone.

845
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 4: But there's still a great opportunity because if the world's global,

846
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 4: you know, how do we sell menim platform like Shopify.

847
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: I mean that pretty much anyone can sell globally or

848
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 4: the drop shipping works and it's a pretty slick experience.

849
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: So thinking about your customers being the world and that

850
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 4: there's a lot of education and just aspirational culture change

851
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 4: to make that happen. But work as a mobile now

852
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 4: they can go anywhere and they can get jobs for

853
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 4: anywhere in the world.

854
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: What he's up to is what we said we would hear,

855
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: and man sure have. There's a lot in there of

856
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: what he's up to. It seems like he has his

857
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: fingers in many, many pis across local government in Queenstown,

858
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: national government, as well as funds and everything.

859
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. He's got his radio ventures, so he's

860
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 2: putting money into startups and pivoted to deep tech, which

861
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: is interesting. He's interested still in software as a service.

862
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: He's got his company, which you didn't talk that much about, Atomic,

863
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: which is very much around infusing AI into customer service

864
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 2: in a software as a service. But really the deep

865
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: tech stuff is what he's passionate about and really interested in.

866
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: His real passion for energy, he said, what's our version

867
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 2: of Saudi Arabian oil and the equivalent is renewable energy,

868
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 2: So let's double down on that. Loved is thinking around.

869
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 2: We need to shake up off our electricity sector in

870
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 2: terms of structurally how it operates. He talked about the

871
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: ultra fast broadband of success of that structural separation of

872
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: retail and wholesale in the telco market, what that has

873
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 2: done for broadband. Can we do the same thing for

874
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: electricity and really build a grid and renewable generation that

875
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 2: is going to make us able to go truly one

876
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 2: hundred percent renewable. And then the conversations around data centers

877
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: and attracting data centers here to work on AI projects.

878
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 2: That really starts to make sense.

879
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think it's common sense, really and what I

880
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: thought was quite clever about it, how he was talking

881
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 1: about it was not necessarily a fundamental change to what

882
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: many people have been setting for some time, which is

883
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 1: that we need more renewable energy. We need to be

884
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: working towards getting as close to one hundred percent as

885
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: we can and building out more infrastructure. We've been saying

886
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 1: that for a long time. But he wants to do

887
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: a really clever kind of brand spin on it and

888
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: say we should stop talking about it in terms of

889
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: reaching carbon zero and start talking about it in terms

890
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: of having the cheapest renewable energy in the world. Is

891
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: that will appeal to far more people. And I think,

892
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, if we look at the past election and

893
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the rhetoric out of national really on

894
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,720
Speaker 1: the campaign trail about easing cost of living, about tax relief,

895
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: about all of these things, about just helping people with

896
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: their wallet. It makes sense that that would be a

897
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: great way to sell what is something that's great for

898
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: everybody in the long run.

899
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, very clever thinking on that other stuff that was

900
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: of interest, the CTO role that the unfortunately just went nowhere.

901
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: People will remember the Clear Current got into trouble over

902
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: conflicts of interest over that with Derek Handley, who was

903
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: supposed to fill that role. The whole things sort of fizzled.

904
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: There was a Digital Council, which I think maybe we're

905
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,959
Speaker 2: supposed to pick up some of that slack. It never did,

906
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: as Rod said, a committee that sort of fizzled. So

907
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: what he's been doing is sort of behind the scenes,

908
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 2: leveraging his relationships to have discussions about things like sur

909
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: charges for electronic payments which are still crazy, the fees

910
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 2: that we pay on contact list payments, and that sort

911
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: of thing. Digitizing government is talk of an all of

912
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 2: government messaging app. So as he's riding around Queenstown on

913
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: his mountain bike, he's clearly thinking about I don't have

914
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: a vested interest in a lot of these things anymore.

915
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 2: I've made my money. I'm in a position where I

916
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: can give back. What am I going to put my

917
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 2: time and energy into and so hopefully some of that

918
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 2: does come to fruition. We've seen tech entrepreneurs, as I

919
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 2: noted in the interview, sort of get very frustrated when

920
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 2: they put their hand up to help or volunteered their

921
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 2: services because they know how to get things done quickly.

922
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 2: And Rod as one of those guys come away from

923
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: government thinking well, that was a waste of my time.

924
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 2: So hopefully he can do it in a way where

925
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: he can use all of that incredible knowledge and experience

926
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: of technology and business and how to get things done

927
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 2: in a way that has a meaningful outcomes.

928
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he kind of spoke about it in terms,

929
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: not directly using the term, but basically talking about public

930
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: private partnerships, which something that people have been talking about

931
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: for a long time and have been talking about a

932
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: lot more ever since the government basically closed their past

933
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: strings in the last budget, and this idea that we

934
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: do need to be thinking about how we can entice

935
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 1: private companies to invest in into infrastructure that is going

936
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: to be beneficial to the community, to society and potentially

937
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: make a like you said, five percent return on investment

938
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: a year that doesn't have to be massive if you

939
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: think about it as infrastructural projects rather than stripping value

940
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: like has happened with certain projects in the past, then

941
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: it can potentially be a really great way to actually

942
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: get some of these projects moving forward.

943
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: That's it for the Business of Tech this week. Thanks

944
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: so much to Rod Drury for joining us on the show.

945
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: We'll put links to the key things we discussed in

946
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: the show notes, and you can go to the tech

947
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: section Business Desk, dot Co, dot and z define those

948
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: as well as our picks for some of the best

949
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: tech stories from around the web this week.

950
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 2: The Business of Tech is on all major podcast platforms,

951
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: as well as iHeartRadio, where you can stream every episode,

952
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 2: leave us a review and share it with your friends

953
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 2: and colleagues.

954
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 1: Get in touch with feedback, ideas, topics, guest suggestions. You

955
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: can email me bent Businessdesk, dot Co, dot Z. We'll

956
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: find both of us on LinkedIn and occasionally X.

957
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: We'll be back next Thursday with another dose of the

958
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: Business of Tech.

959
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: Until then, have a great week.