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Speaker 1: Kyota. Welcome to Shared Lunch, brought to you by Sarsy's.

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Speaker 1: My name is Dan Brunskill. Today on Shared Lunch, we're

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Speaker 1: joined by Damien Spring, CEO of Santana Minerals, to talk

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Speaker 1: about their new listing on the Inside X, the new

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Speaker 1: gold mine near Queenstown, and the government's fast tracked legislation

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Speaker 1: and more. But before we get started, here's some important information.

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Speaker 2: Investing involves risk. You might lose the money you start with.

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Speaker 2: We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor. We also

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Speaker 2: recommend reading product of Schlosure documents before deciding to invest.

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Speaker 2: Everything you're about to see and here is current at

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Speaker 2: the time of recording.

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Speaker 1: Damien, thank you for coming on the show.

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Speaker 3: Glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Busy week for you. Absolutely did you you just newly

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Speaker 1: listed on the Inside X So did you get to

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Speaker 1: ring the bell?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually, our founding director of Matakanai Gold and his

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Speaker 4: ZEEM subsidiary Combunting, got that privilege. Here's the guy who

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Speaker 4: drove the discovery, so he rang it first and then

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Speaker 4: the whole team got their hands on there.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to I wanted to ask you about the

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Speaker 1: discoveries because because they have interesting names. I think the

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Speaker 1: one we're talking about is called Raise and Shine. Another

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Speaker 1: one's called common Time, and there's Shrek and Shrek East,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know why it wasn't Shrek too, my

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Speaker 1: personal favorite. But where do you cut with his names?

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Speaker 4: Well, the first two historic names, they're from the eighteen

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Speaker 4: sixties through the nineteen twenties though mind so yeah, Rise

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Speaker 4: and Shine just good old prospectors' names from that era.

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Speaker 4: And I guess Shrek's is acknowledgment of the big wooly

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Speaker 4: sheep that was found twenty years ago this year.

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Speaker 1: Got it is that from the same region.

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Speaker 4: From Benego Station, were one of half the land that

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Speaker 4: were lyon has been to go and the other half

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Speaker 4: out here.

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Speaker 1: Are you still looking for new discoveries?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's a very prospective area and continue to explore.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what is this discovery, what have you found?

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Speaker 1: Why are you excited about it?

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Speaker 4: Look, it's a half million ounces at a grade of

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Speaker 4: two point one grands per ton or parts per million.

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Speaker 3: It's on the.

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Speaker 4: World scale, that is right up there. There's not many

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Speaker 4: other undeveloped new discoveries of that order in the world

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Speaker 4: right now. And it's we're really excited about it. You know,

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Speaker 4: I was working in the area or living in the

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Speaker 4: area really, and when the opportunity came on board came up,

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Speaker 4: I knew about the project and took the opportunity with

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Speaker 4: both ham.

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Speaker 1: So how long have you been looking at this? You

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Speaker 1: said it's a sort of historical gold gold area.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's how we find things, look where the

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Speaker 4: old timers were. But really the discovery hole was made

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty one, where after prospecting in the valley's

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Speaker 4: Sentana Mineral bought the project off. Metacnoy Gold funded seven

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Speaker 4: million dollars of expiration and James Bond whole Double O

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Speaker 4: seven drilled forty meters at two grands per ton. So

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Speaker 4: they followed it up with obviously a lot more drilling.

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Speaker 4: We've drawed over three hundred holes now across the project

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Speaker 4: and it's just turned into a world class deposit.

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Speaker 1: So Double A seven the seventh hole you dug, correct,

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Speaker 1: hit gold. Yes, that's good. That's good, okay, And the

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Speaker 1: technical terms about how how much gold there is in

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Speaker 1: the ground may be lost on me and listeners, but

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Speaker 1: it's a.

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Speaker 4: Good oh, absolutely, And I guess the reason we put

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Speaker 4: out our scoping study earliest earlier this year was to

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Speaker 4: actually put some more palatable metrics around it, in particularly

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Speaker 4: on the financial side of things. So yeah, it's a

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Speaker 4: fantastic project. It's going to deliver four point four billion

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Speaker 4: dollars over ten years on what we know at that

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Speaker 4: point in time was half the resource, and deliver potentially

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Speaker 4: six percent of that value in the ground to New

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Speaker 4: Zealanders either through taxes, royalties or dividends to our current

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Speaker 4: existing forty percent New Zealand based shareholders. But we hope

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Speaker 4: to grow with our recent listening yesterday, of.

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Speaker 1: Course, congratulate. Talk to me about that because you're an

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Speaker 1: Australian registered company ASX listed. You know, people on cheersa's

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Speaker 1: and professional traders can buy and sell on the AX.

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Speaker 1: What made you want to come over to the inzid

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Speaker 1: X and set up a secondary listing here? What's the

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Speaker 1: what's the benefit of doing so?

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Speaker 3: Oh, look at it.

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Speaker 4: It's demonstrating our intent, you know it as a New

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Speaker 4: Zealand discovery. It will be developed in mind predominantly by

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Speaker 4: New Zealanders for themselves and for their families and the community.

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Speaker 4: I guess in terms of why specifically on the inziet X.

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Speaker 4: It is a given the ability for those investors, whether

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Speaker 4: retail or institutional, to trade in New Zealand currency without

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Speaker 4: worrying about that forts issue. And ultimately, when we do

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Speaker 4: start declaring dividends that hopefully we can do it in

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Speaker 4: New Zealand dollars and get whatever franking credits are available

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Speaker 4: at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: You said about forty percent of your register on New Zealanders.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect that to change and shift and grow potentially?

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Speaker 4: Oh, look at there is that expectation. Ultimately, it gives

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Speaker 4: us two platforms in which to grow the company here

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Speaker 4: in New Zealand. Then of course the A six and

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Speaker 4: we'll be looking for a final investment decision sometime next year,

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Speaker 4: which will also be looking to capital raise to build

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Speaker 4: the mine.

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Speaker 1: Of course, how much do you think you will need

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Speaker 1: to raise?

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Speaker 4: Scope and study indicated about two and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 4: in New Zealand and we're looking at a number of

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Speaker 4: options as you expect, over a coming months to see

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Speaker 4: how we're going to raise that money.

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Speaker 1: And when you see options, you mean maybe a mix

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Speaker 1: of reason capital.

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Speaker 3: Debt, debt and equity predominant.

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Speaker 1: Yes, have you taken on any sort of obviously on

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Speaker 1: the sheer markets, you investors can come along. Have you

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Speaker 1: taken on any big institutional investors for this project or

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Speaker 1: it's been.

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Speaker 4: Through them attacking of gold. They were well backed originally

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Speaker 4: by High Networks in New Zealand never remained loyal to

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Speaker 4: the company through the Santana acquiring a Takenery Gold. So

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Speaker 4: right now, in terms of the A six, we really

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Speaker 4: only have one institutional investor that's Regal They're number one,

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Speaker 4: and the rest are helped still held bi predominantly by

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Speaker 4: High Networks. So look as we definitely move into that

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Speaker 4: construction phase, we expect that institutional buying will be there.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like Santana is quite focused on New

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Speaker 1: Zealand and this project in particular. Do you have other

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Speaker 1: projects going on? Is this one of many minds? What

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Speaker 1: else does do you do?

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Speaker 4: No, So, Santana is essentially an expiration company now looking

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Speaker 4: to be a development company and ultimately a gold producer.

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Speaker 4: So yes, we do have a couple of projects, one

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Speaker 4: in Mexico that we're divesting and also a one in

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Speaker 4: Cambodia which we're just earning. Have a partner there who's

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Speaker 4: earning an interest in that doing all the work, so

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Speaker 4: we'll just sit there quietly and let them do the

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Speaker 4: work and hopefully grow that project on its own right.

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Speaker 4: But so yeah, we're really focused on the bend to

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Speaker 4: go over goal project that toownnumber one focus.

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Speaker 1: So you've previously been exploration. Is this your first foray

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Speaker 1: into actually pulling the gold out of.

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Speaker 4: The ground In terms of the company, Santana absolutely, but

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Speaker 4: it was spun out of a previous deal about ten

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Speaker 4: years ago in Mexico, so the assets that were not

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Speaker 4: required for that transaction were put into Santana. And as

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Speaker 4: the way of our industry, you know, we have these

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Speaker 4: junior explorers who are out there looking at the ground

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Speaker 4: first on the ground to see if they can make

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Speaker 4: a discovery, and ultimately, if they do make a discovery,

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Speaker 4: transition to a developer or get picked up by existing producer.

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Speaker 4: So I guess really as a company we're new, but

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Speaker 4: as a team, as a people, we're very experienced. Peter

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Speaker 4: Cook our non executive chairman, he's a very successful builder

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Speaker 4: of minds and mining companies and one of note was

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Speaker 4: west Gold. There's now well in excess of a billion

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Speaker 4: dollars market cap, and a number of others in my

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Speaker 4: team that I've selected over the last six months to

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Speaker 4: be on the ground down there. I've all got their

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Speaker 4: extensive careers in mining, both in Australia and New Zealand,

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Speaker 4: and particularly with their own experiences in New Zealand, they've

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Speaker 4: already got that in New Zealand context.

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Speaker 1: Co goo back to something you said earlier. You said

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Speaker 1: the way to find gold is look where the old

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Speaker 1: time has looked. What has changed between now and then,

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's technological advance that means you can get

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Speaker 1: the goal that they maybe knew was there but didn't

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Speaker 1: pull up.

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Speaker 4: Well, there's a couple of things. Is the grade. You know,

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Speaker 4: they are mining thirty grams per ton as a moniment

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Speaker 4: that outstir it, as we call it. So we're mining

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Speaker 4: potentially two and a half, probably a little bit higher initially,

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Speaker 4: maybe up to five grands.

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Speaker 1: It's how much gold is in each bit of dirt.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very much of the rock that actually contains the goal.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of rock that we have to move

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Speaker 4: to expose that rock, and then we process it.

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Speaker 3: So there's a.

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Speaker 4: Grade, and then there's knowledge and science that's developed over

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Speaker 4: the one hundred and fifty years and then probably longer actually,

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Speaker 4: But the point now that we really understart to understand

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Speaker 4: the little bit of clues that the ground gives us.

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Speaker 4: And of course we've got the experience of McCrae's mccray's

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Speaker 4: gold mine near Dunedin, owned by Oceana Gold. They've been

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Speaker 4: operating for now thirty four years and produce over five

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Speaker 4: million ounces. Very similar geometry and geology, slight differences in

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Speaker 4: grade and metallurgy to our advantage. But there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of learnings and that one of them was that had

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Speaker 4: these northerly trends on their deposits which helped drive that

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Speaker 4: discovery whole double seven.

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Speaker 1: So that gives you some confidence about what you found

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Speaker 1: in tap.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah, that's our bread and butter.

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Speaker 1: Your pitch to investors say this project could produce between

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Speaker 1: your one point one million of ounces of gold and

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Speaker 1: that could mean one point one billion to two billion

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Speaker 1: dollars of net profits over ten years. But a lot

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Speaker 1: of that depends on the gold price. Talk to me

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Speaker 1: about the outlook for the gold price. How do you

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Speaker 1: think about that, because it's quite high at the.

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Speaker 4: Moment right it is quite high ourscoping study was actually

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Speaker 4: done on a conservative long term goal price of sixteen

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Speaker 4: fifty US or twenty seven hundred. Key, we even on

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Speaker 4: that metric produce that, as you say, one billion dollars

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Speaker 4: net profit after tax. But going forward, yes, we're definitely

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Speaker 4: at record pricing right now for gold. It obviously has

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Speaker 4: a gold mine. It's pleasing to see and definitely drives

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Speaker 4: a lot of interest. Where it ends up is beyond

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Speaker 4: our control. Definitely say that because it's an international commodity

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Speaker 4: that's well traded. What we have to do is we

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Speaker 4: get our project up, get our capital, get our project up,

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Speaker 4: manage our bottom line, our costs, and ensure that there

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Speaker 4: is a margin there. And look at almost two and

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Speaker 4: a half thousand dollars key, we announce there's plenty of margin.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, got goal process tend to Yeah, what is

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Speaker 1: the lowest it can go before you have to pull

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Speaker 1: the plug on the project? Do you have do you

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Speaker 1: have a goal price in your head that if it

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Speaker 1: gets to that you're in trouble.

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Speaker 4: Oh, look it's well below two thousand, seven hundred. See

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Speaker 4: that was a conservative pricing and we still made a profit.

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Speaker 1: What is it now?

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Speaker 3: Through thirty nine I think it was.

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Speaker 4: Over four thousand week back over over that price. So

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Speaker 4: it's I guess it's it's a commodity that is complex,

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Speaker 4: it's well traded. It goes up when it goes up,

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Speaker 4: and it goes down when it goes down. And you

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Speaker 4: can pick the drivers for that, I guess right now

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Speaker 4: at central bank buying, but also a little bit uncertainty

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Speaker 4: and international geopolitical scene as well as financials. But we'll

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Speaker 4: take whatever the price is at the time we start producing,

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Speaker 4: and that's what it will be.

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Speaker 1: So you've scoped the project at a price of two thousand,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred US, so it's profitable at seven thousand, two thousand, seven.

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Speaker 3: Hundred absolutely one billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's the one billion, and then the two billion

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Speaker 1: dollars is at the current price at.

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Speaker 3: Three nine hundred actuals. Is spot back in April when

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Speaker 3: we release that report.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting in terms of what drives the price. You

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Speaker 1: just referenced central bank buying there, What about just things

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Speaker 1: like in tech components and jewelry and what would call

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Speaker 1: it practical uses? Is z drove the price much? Is

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Speaker 1: it all about the store of value?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Look, no doubt, I'm not much of a student on

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Speaker 4: that goal, pricing on the mining engineer by trade, but

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Speaker 4: absolutely I think the technological applications are a big part

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Speaker 4: of it. I think, you know, there's a little bit

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Speaker 4: of gold and everybody's smartphone a very small amount, I think,

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Speaker 4: less than ten bucks, but it is something. I don't

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Speaker 4: know how many smartphones are in the world, but I

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Speaker 4: think there was a lot.

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Speaker 1: A respect tore the not the gold experting. We ask

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Speaker 1: one more question because as a retail investor show, and

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Speaker 1: that is gold suddenly has a competitor in being store

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Speaker 1: of value bitcoin, which people love and call it digital gold.

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Speaker 1: How do you think about that? Are you worried that that,

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Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin is going to displace gold?

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Speaker 4: Not really really, I don't know much about cryptocurrencies. I

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Speaker 4: think people like the idea of a physical store of wealth,

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Speaker 4: and of course it does create its own physical industry.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're going to have two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 4: direct jobs at our operation down in Central Otaga. That

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Speaker 4: will spawn at least three other jobs through free full

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Speaker 4: time jobs, so be close to a thousand new jobs

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Speaker 4: in the Central Otago region. So that's I guess widespread

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Speaker 4: real economic driving activity versus yes, sorry crypto again, don't

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Speaker 4: know anything about it.

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Speaker 1: Don't want to pick a fight today. I guess one's

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Speaker 1: one's one's one has a longer history. I suppose it's exactly.

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Speaker 3: I love Millennia long. Hey.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that the people working on this Maine

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Speaker 1: will be New Zealanders. I've also heard that our workforce

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Speaker 1: is limited there and people who have been involved in

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Speaker 1: mining have gone overseas. Present me that many projects talk

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Speaker 1: to me about the workforce as available, and where do

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Speaker 1: you think it will come from.

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Speaker 3: Look, there's three Q areas.

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Speaker 4: I think our workforce will come from there. They'll be

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Speaker 4: like me, They've been there a long time. They've chosen

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Speaker 4: to live in central Otago maintain their links to the industry.

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Speaker 4: I was lucky enough to work predominantly remote. How a

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Speaker 4: cell phone had international airport. It's I can jump on

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Speaker 4: the plane or drive drive to any of my client's mines.

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Speaker 4: There'll be others who are fly and fly out for

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Speaker 4: actually going to operate at mines rather than work remote

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Speaker 4: out of that area. There'll be Kiwis and others who

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Speaker 4: are working fly and fly out in Western Australia enjoying

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Speaker 4: the money. But two weeks or one week away from

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Speaker 4: their family for three weeks puts a toll on things.

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Speaker 4: So they may be looking to change their lifestyle, staying

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Speaker 4: the game that they love being a part of, and

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Speaker 4: look to relocate. And of course there'll be people want

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Speaker 4: to get a bit of this new industry called gold

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Speaker 4: mining in Central Otago who again are already there and

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Speaker 4: just want to change jobs and join us.

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Speaker 1: So you could imagine some of the Kiwis who are

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Speaker 1: mining in Australia coming back to work on a new

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Speaker 1: Zealand project.

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Speaker 3: Aolutely.

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Speaker 4: I know people are who are aware of this project

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Speaker 4: and aware of their mates already in the industry over there.

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Speaker 4: To the text them say when you're coming back.

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Speaker 1: Your mind is not yet consented, correct, And you're hoping

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Speaker 1: to be part of this new government fast tracked legislation

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Speaker 1: that could speed up that whole process. It's currently making

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Speaker 1: its way through parliament. Do you expect to be one

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Speaker 1: of the projects that is listed in the Schedule A

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Speaker 1: Schedule B that is automatically included in the legislation.

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Speaker 4: Look, we have applied for a Schedule two A. We

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Speaker 4: haven't made a much deal about it because, as you say,

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Speaker 4: the bill is still going through Parliament. It's actually at

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Speaker 4: the Environment Select Committee stage and they're due to report

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Speaker 4: back in a few months time. On the back of that,

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Speaker 4: the second reading, the bill will have it second reading

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Speaker 4: in Parliament and we'll hopefully see what happens with that

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Speaker 4: Scheduled two A or Schedule two B.

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Speaker 1: Right, the bill's relatively controversial, one of the most controversial

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Speaker 1: things the government's doing at the moment. Do you have

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Speaker 1: a backup plan for if it doesn't make it or

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Speaker 1: if it gets ubstantially changed.

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Speaker 4: Well, Fast Track Approval Bill is actually my Plan B,

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Speaker 4: my Plan AA, given my background working for another ASX

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Speaker 4: company that is one hundred percent New Zealand Bathist Resources,

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Speaker 4: was to follow the Resource Management Act and submit our

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Speaker 4: applications at the end of this year. So we've been

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Speaker 4: working since I've joined the company that started last year

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Speaker 4: to gather the information, particularly around the environmental baseline overlay

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Speaker 4: that with our mining plans, come up with a mitigation

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Speaker 4: or offseting conversations allowed for under the RMA, and put

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Speaker 4: the application at the end of this year. So look,

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Speaker 4: this Plan B that I've called it, the Fast Track

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Speaker 4: Approvals Bill as popped up, would certainly take full advantage

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Speaker 4: of it. As you know, it's an over arching piece

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Speaker 4: of legislation, palls and six acts, including the ROMA. The

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Speaker 4: requirements under those individual six acts I think of which

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Speaker 4: four we need permissions from those requirements still stand, so

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Speaker 4: we still have to follow the processes under the ROMA

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Speaker 4: to mitigate our effects and continue consultation, which is a

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Speaker 4: big part of what we do, talking to our community,

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Speaker 4: talking to our neighbors, talking to Manifenoa, and we expect

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Speaker 4: that when we do put our application at the end

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Speaker 4: of this year or early next year, that we've done

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Speaker 4: it with the best of our ability at that point

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Speaker 4: in time.

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Speaker 1: So am I understanding there that the application you're submitting

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Speaker 1: and the requirements you will face are the same under

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Speaker 1: each process, just ones faster.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess Fast Track Approvals Bill is really a

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Speaker 4: one stop shop. You know, it's those six acts. We

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Speaker 4: put one application to cover all the permissions under those

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Speaker 4: six acts, four of the six acts that we need

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Speaker 4: those permissions. As we understand it, with the current version,

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Speaker 4: the expert Panel have six months to make a recommendation

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Speaker 4: to the Minister and then the Minister has that decision

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Speaker 4: to grant or otherwise those conditions.

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Speaker 1: So what's the timeline under Plan A.

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Speaker 4: Oh, look at part of our submission to the Environment

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Speaker 4: Select Committee was that the the Plan A through the

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Speaker 4: normal RMA process, that's what we call a two step process.

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Speaker 4: We put your application, it all your consultation, put your

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Speaker 4: application in publicly notified. Sometime months after that, you get

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Speaker 4: a public hearing, lots of public anyone in the public

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Speaker 4: can make a submission on it. The commissioners reveal the

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Speaker 4: evidence and then confirm or otherwise the conditions of the

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Speaker 4: consent or decline it for whatever reason. Then because of

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Speaker 4: the way it works for the last eighty years of

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Speaker 4: the Act thirty three years of the Act is there's

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Speaker 4: options to go to the Environment Court to appeal aspects

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Speaker 4: where we all start again.

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Speaker 3: So that does.

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Speaker 4: Push the timeline out and I guess it is a

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Speaker 4: rest for us. You know, we can't we don't want

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Speaker 4: to be sitting around fighting things out in court where

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Speaker 4: my goal always do a very good job on the

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Speaker 4: science first, and then the consultation, understanding people's issues and

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Speaker 4: at least giving them the opportunity to review our science

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Speaker 4: and our mitigation before we that application.

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Speaker 1: The Resources Minister Shane Jones has said that one of

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Speaker 1: the big poems mining industry faces in New Zealand is

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Speaker 1: social license, this idea that maybe the New Zealand public

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Speaker 1: doesn't trust you necessarily. How do you go about winning

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Speaker 1: the trust of New Zealanders to say we can be

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Speaker 1: trusted with this piece of the environment, we'll look after it,

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Speaker 1: will look after our neighbors can convince us.

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Speaker 4: The idea of social license probably decades old. I've been

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Speaker 4: aware of it for a long time. I've heard it

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Speaker 4: being described in the Patagonia, where I've also worked for

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Speaker 4: a T six listed company that we had to make

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Speaker 4: it very clear, it's not a piece of paper that

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Speaker 4: we get, here's our social license. It is a case

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Speaker 4: of talking to people, introducing yourself if you ever met

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Speaker 4: them before, let them know the background. And certainly in

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Speaker 4: my case, I'm a local. I've lived in theretown twenty years.

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Speaker 4: So the projects are now depending on with bad traffic

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Speaker 4: up to the project. So we're here for the long term.

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Speaker 4: We're not an overseas company here to take the profit.

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Speaker 4: Mind take the profits and disappear again. So it's about

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Speaker 4: ensuring we're firing following the leader of the law at Urma.

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Speaker 4: As it stands today, and then whatever it is under

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Speaker 4: the Fast Track Approval S Bill, that we're doing our

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Speaker 4: work to the highest possible standard in terms of mining

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Speaker 4: on the international scene, not just in New Zealand, and

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Speaker 4: that we listen as best as we can and take

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Speaker 4: on as best as we can those concerns for our proposal,

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Speaker 4: but also highlight the benefits of our project, you know,

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Speaker 4: the jobs creation, the service industry that we've built up.

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Speaker 3: And what we call.

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Speaker 4: The continued sustainable economic development of Otago and particular that

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Speaker 4: started in eighteen sixty with the discovery of gold.

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Speaker 1: Well, what are the environmental impacts of the project? Obviously

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Speaker 1: you dig a big hole in the ground, what else happens?

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Speaker 4: I love the main concerns. I think around water, a

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Speaker 4: little bit of dust, traffic, you know, it's probably quite low,

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Speaker 4: low population area, and you know, flora and fauna. So

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Speaker 4: those all things that we've spent a couple of million

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00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 4: dollars already understanding what's out there. You know, when a

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Speaker 4: project of our scale comes into an area that's already

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Speaker 4: sort of well known, we actually take the level of

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Speaker 4: scientific understanding a couple of waters of magnitude up. You know,

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Speaker 4: we've had I had one day this year where I

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Speaker 4: called it the peak ecologist Day. We had about a

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Speaker 4: dozen people on site and we've only got a dozen employees.

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Speaker 4: A dozen ecologists on site looking at invertebrates, lizards, tatamea, pests,

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Speaker 4: all sorts of things to really get a handle on

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Speaker 4: what's out there. So look, it's it's one of our

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Speaker 4: key things to get this project going.

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Speaker 1: The actual place you're mining is farmland, correct, Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: presumably not too many lizards.

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Speaker 4: Look at the whole of a target's got lizards and

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Speaker 4: it's well known. So look, it is cheap beef country.

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Speaker 4: It's a hell country. It's not flats. So yeah, look

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Speaker 4: it's I don't want to say it's degraded.

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Speaker 3: It is what it is.

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Speaker 4: You know, whatever remnants of the original native ecology are there.

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Speaker 4: That's one of the things we've focused on trying and

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Speaker 4: understand that. Also, you know, the grasses and the other

436
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 4: introduced species into the land. We expect that part of

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00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 4: our application under the RMA and Fast Train Bill will

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Speaker 4: be to demonstrate a no net loss to the environment

439
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Speaker 4: and potentially a net game so pest control eliminating a

440
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 4: lot of pests over a large hundreds of hectares of land.

441
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 4: It will be a big plus and as well trying

442
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 4: to preserve what we do find there.

443
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: How supportive for this project is having a government that

444
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 1: is taking a more pro mining stance than it has previously.

445
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: I think it's positive.

446
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: I think it's the world we live in, mining in

447
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 4: everything we have, even either growing or mine, nothing in between,

448
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 4: all right. So I think one of the moments for

449
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 4: me this year with the turnaround in mining was a

450
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 4: debate I watched on Parliamentary TV between five I think

451
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 4: of the six major parties in Parliament debating the merits

452
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 4: or otherwise of mining. And that's something I would not

453
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 4: have seen even a year ago. So the fact that

454
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 4: the three leaders of the coalition party were debating it

455
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 4: and a couple of the opposition parties we're debating it

456
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 4: either for or against or neutral was a positive thing.

457
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,359
Speaker 1: With the government. They're the ones who get to decide

458
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: what goes in that schedule too. A you're talking about

459
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 1: you have you met with them and made your case.

460
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 4: Oh, look at the processes. It's pretty remote. You fill

461
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 4: out a form and it goes online and they need

462
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 4: to do what they need to do to come back

463
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 4: through official channels to us follow up questions. So that's

464
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 4: that process where it sits with the people who run

465
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 4: that process. Other than that, years we've had mister Jones

466
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 4: on site to show him, give him a sense of Hey,

467
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 4: this is what we're about and this is the scene,

468
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 4: the area we're in, so he's got a physical experience

469
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 4: of what we're proposing rather something that's esoteric. And of

470
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: course we've hosted him in Perth. To my directors, including

471
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 4: our chair live in Perth, so he was hosted there

472
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 4: to understand the Australian mining scene, including a meeting with

473
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 4: the current or former Consulate for Western Australia.

474
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: And you were planning this project obviously long before the

475
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: new government came in, so you obviously thought it was possible.

476
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

477
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 4: Look, being local, I understood the potential change in the

478
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 4: political scene, but I didn't highlight that to the boards.

479
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 4: You know at the time there was two Kiwis on

480
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 4: the board anyway, So I was quite prepared to continue

481
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 4: with the RMA under the previous government. I think this

482
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 4: projects of such national significance that it you need to

483
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 4: bring real primary export dollars that with the post COVID economy,

484
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: that we've been left with that. It was a real

485
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 4: chance of being part of that, even the previous government's

486
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 4: ticket to getting back in the black.

487
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: You said that you'll need to raise capital to do

488
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: the development. I think you said two and fifty million,

489
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: and you sort of looking at one to two billion

490
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: dollars of net profit over the next ten years. What

491
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: year would the development turn cash flow positive if everything

492
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: goes to plan.

493
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 4: So based on our scalping study, that's all those numbers

494
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 4: you've quoted, and we've got a pre feasibility coming out

495
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,479
Speaker 4: towards the end of the year that'll update all date

496
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 4: and hopefully grow the size of the project somewhat. But

497
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: in short, the answer is one year after we start

498
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 4: pouring gold, we've paid back all our.

499
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: Capital, okay, and one year after you start pulling gold.

500
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: It would be what year? And I guess it depends

501
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: when you get the consent.

502
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: Well, that's true.

503
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 4: So on terms of actual calendar timelines, if we put

504
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 4: our application and early next year after our PFS, the

505
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 4: panel's got six months to make that recommendation, so we

506
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 4: expect about this time next year we'll have that decision.

507
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 4: We would have done our financing ready to push the button,

508
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 4: so we could have buckets in the ground before the

509
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 4: end of twenty twenty five, probably third quarter twenty twenty five,

510
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 4: and just to be clear, that'll be just small works,

511
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 4: just to set up the scene so that we can

512
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 4: control our water discharge if it happens to rain. It's

513
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 4: a very dry area, set up our rating before we

514
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 4: get start things in anger. That's a timeline of probably

515
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 4: at least a year, meaning that potentially end of twenty

516
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: twenty six could be poor in gold. But that's detail

517
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: that will come out in the PFSK cool.

518
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: What are the risks facing this project? You know, what

519
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: keeps you up at night? That timeline looks nice, looks good.

520
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: What's your kind of what's your kind of What are

521
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: the risks that investors and you should be thinking about?

522
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 3: Risk?

523
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything's a risk in mining, and we're managing that

524
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: every day, either financial, geological, mining, community relations, it's every day.

525
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 4: So we're just going to make sure my people are

526
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 4: well resourced, they're confident if they need something, that they

527
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 4: get it, and that we respond to community concerns or

528
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 4: anybody's concerns.

529
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: So I guess in my mad I can sort of

530
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: think of two fairly large risks. One would be cost blowouts.

531
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of that over the past few years.

532
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: Even if the goal prices ses where it is, what's

533
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 1: the chances that the cost of pulling out the ground

534
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: just ends up being more than you expect.

535
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 4: It's record goal prices in terms of cost escalation. We've

536
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 4: seen those costs come plateau out across most industries, but

537
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 4: particularly in the mining industry. That's definitely happened. I guess

538
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 4: Along those lines are obviously the workforce where they're going

539
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 4: to come from. It's still a bit of an unknown,

540
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 4: but again a fantastic project. It's going to attract the

541
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 4: best and a fantastic place to live. I think these

542
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 4: are all positives that some of those risks mitigated.

543
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 1: So we talked about the environmental effects. There's also a

544
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: community surrounding this area, local EWE people who just live there.

545
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: What do they think of the mind going in next door?

546
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: What consultation have you had with them?

547
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 4: Look in terms of EWE, we've been in contact with

548
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 4: them since it was an expiration project. Only since I joined.

549
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 4: We've been very exhaustive in our contact, particularly through their

550
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 4: consultancy arm for the RMA al Cajenen based in Dunedin

551
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 4: to bring them up to speed that we've found something

552
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 4: and it's definitely worth putting a bit of effort in here.

553
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: So we have regular catch ups with that group. We

554
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: have other touch points with Mana Finowa throughout the down South.

555
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 4: In terms of the community. We've been active with the

556
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 4: local Business South Chamber of Commerce even hosted eighty people

557
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 4: in Cromwell last night to really allow them a chance

558
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 4: to understand what the project is and what it means

559
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 4: for them as both individuals, for their families but also

560
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 4: for their businesses with that obviously commercial bent to it.

561
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 4: And then there's the more general groups. The society is

562
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: the rotoract of the lions to just let them know

563
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 4: because they are all people who have best key to

564
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 4: understand what that means to them and obviously to the environment.

565
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 4: But of course there's now the people who will be

566
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 4: directly affected by the project, whether it's through that the

567
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 4: traffic that will access up into the mountains, or the

568
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 4: thoughts about the water, where it's going to come on,

569
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 4: what are we going to do with it, where is

570
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: it going to go, how we're going to control our

571
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 4: effects on the land. Those conversations are started, and as

572
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 4: I said, we've got a lot more work to do,

573
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: and ultimately we'll try and be as transparent as we

574
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 4: can be. We've also got a certain amount of disclosure

575
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 4: rules under the ASEX we have to be mindful of.

576
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: But I hope to have up a website in the

577
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 4: coming month or so that the public can access and understand, Hey,

578
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 4: what are they doing for water monitoring? While there's the results,

579
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: they can click on and see the results and see

580
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 4: the certificates from the labs that have done the results.

581
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: And you talked about engaging with monofena. What sort of

582
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: things are they interested in? What are they worried about?

583
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 4: I guess the flora and fauna tatami is somewhat prevalent

584
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 4: at high altitudes. Not directly we're proposing our mind, but

585
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 4: there they wanted to see. They protected water, you know why.

586
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: It's very important as we know, and it's important to

587
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 4: everyone right I drinking it.

588
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: And of course it is a known.

589
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: Pathway from the coastal communities into the Klutha or the

590
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: mata al for in times, path particularly for food gathering

591
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 4: and pathways so west coast for partonami. So those are

592
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: all factors from an environment and historical point of view.

593
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 4: But of course you know this is the opportunity for

594
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: take part in mining. You know, demographically they make up

595
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 4: a large proportion of kiwis in the mining industry or disproportionate.

596
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 4: You know, they're sort of percent of workers in Australia.

597
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: I've picked with a lot of keywiks over there, and

598
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 4: so they want, as Nissa Jones says, they want their

599
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: sons and daughters and nephews and nieces come back home

600
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 4: and dig up New Zealand rather than Calgoley. So definitely jobs,

601
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: sustainable jobs, sustainable housing and building communities for their people,

602
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 4: just like everyone else who wants the same thing.

603
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for coming in, appreciate your time. Congratulations on

604
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: the INSIDEX listing. I hope things go well.

605
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Glad to be here. It's very

606
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: exciting day and looking forward to the future.

607
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: Thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch your Lunch

608
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: on YouTube or follow the podcast on Apple, Spotify, wherever

609
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Please leave us a rating and

610
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: a comment about what topic you might like to hear

611
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: about next. Enjoy the rest of your week, See you

612
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: next time.

613
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 4: MHM.