1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,907 Speaker 1: from News Talks, EDB. 3 00:00:12,627 --> 00:00:15,467 Speaker 2: News Talks EDB and Weekend Sport. It's that time of 4 00:00:15,467 --> 00:00:18,907 Speaker 2: the year when Super Rugby preseason hits its final stages. 5 00:00:18,947 --> 00:00:22,467 Speaker 2: The season, of course, starts next weekend or on Friday. Actually, 6 00:00:22,627 --> 00:00:26,027 Speaker 2: NRL and AFL teams getting ready for the start of 7 00:00:26,027 --> 00:00:29,707 Speaker 2: their respective seasons in early March. So what's the best 8 00:00:29,787 --> 00:00:34,547 Speaker 2: recipe for a successful preseason campaign. Let's bring it our 9 00:00:34,627 --> 00:00:37,787 Speaker 2: coaching guru Wayne Goldsmith for some inside on this. Wa 10 00:00:37,787 --> 00:00:39,587 Speaker 2: ain't always good to chat to you, thanks for joining us. 11 00:00:39,627 --> 00:00:44,827 Speaker 2: As always in general terms, how soon before a professional 12 00:00:44,907 --> 00:00:48,467 Speaker 2: season starts should preseason ideally begin. 13 00:00:49,027 --> 00:00:51,427 Speaker 3: It's funny and always great to chat to you too, 14 00:00:51,467 --> 00:00:55,787 Speaker 3: my friend that this is a really favorite topic of mind. Look, 15 00:00:56,067 --> 00:01:00,467 Speaker 3: we know that in the AFL and the NRL, for example, 16 00:01:01,147 --> 00:01:05,507 Speaker 3: the teams who don't make the final series, they're already 17 00:01:05,547 --> 00:01:09,587 Speaker 3: back in training while the final series is going on. 18 00:01:09,867 --> 00:01:13,347 Speaker 3: That's how it really is a year round commitment at 19 00:01:13,387 --> 00:01:16,907 Speaker 3: that level. If you're talking junior codes a little bit 20 00:01:16,947 --> 00:01:20,227 Speaker 3: different though. I'm a big believer you've got to have 21 00:01:20,387 --> 00:01:24,427 Speaker 3: seasonal sport, and I know that's not trendy or comfortable 22 00:01:24,467 --> 00:01:26,027 Speaker 3: with a lot of the codes who want you to 23 00:01:26,067 --> 00:01:29,347 Speaker 3: play year round soccer or year round cricket or the 24 00:01:29,427 --> 00:01:32,147 Speaker 3: year round rugby. I'm a big believer for kids in 25 00:01:32,307 --> 00:01:35,427 Speaker 3: junior codes that they've got to have an off season, 26 00:01:35,547 --> 00:01:39,227 Speaker 3: even if the off season is playing another sport, getting 27 00:01:39,227 --> 00:01:42,467 Speaker 3: on their mountain, biking, having some fun, or just chilling 28 00:01:42,467 --> 00:01:45,987 Speaker 3: out with their friends. So there's a big difference between 29 00:01:45,987 --> 00:01:50,027 Speaker 3: preseason for the pros and preseason for the juniors and 30 00:01:50,627 --> 00:01:52,987 Speaker 3: the kids. But it would be fair to say that 31 00:01:53,027 --> 00:01:56,067 Speaker 3: for the pros it is genuinely a year round commitment now. 32 00:01:56,427 --> 00:02:00,347 Speaker 2: But surely in a contact sport like rugby league, like AFL, 33 00:02:00,467 --> 00:02:06,067 Speaker 2: like rugby union, there's the need to rest, to refresh, 34 00:02:06,147 --> 00:02:09,387 Speaker 2: to recover, to have some time away from the game, 35 00:02:09,467 --> 00:02:09,907 Speaker 2: isn't there? 36 00:02:11,107 --> 00:02:14,987 Speaker 3: Well, there is, and there's other applications two piney like 37 00:02:15,027 --> 00:02:21,107 Speaker 3: for example, very very common that the surgical wards of Sydney, Melbourne, 38 00:02:21,147 --> 00:02:24,747 Speaker 3: Brisbane and all the major capitals are full of rugby, 39 00:02:24,867 --> 00:02:29,067 Speaker 3: Rugby League and AFL players on the Monday morning after 40 00:02:29,107 --> 00:02:32,827 Speaker 3: their last game. Because if I'm the head coach, I 41 00:02:32,987 --> 00:02:36,427 Speaker 3: want my players to get their surgeries done so they're 42 00:02:36,427 --> 00:02:38,707 Speaker 3: trimming their shoulder or the knee of whatever they have 43 00:02:38,747 --> 00:02:42,107 Speaker 3: to have done. I want those minor igning injuries fixed 44 00:02:42,587 --> 00:02:45,667 Speaker 3: as soon as possible to give us maximum possible lead 45 00:02:45,707 --> 00:02:49,267 Speaker 3: in for doing rehab and them ready to come back 46 00:02:49,267 --> 00:02:53,267 Speaker 3: at full speed exactly when I need them. So for 47 00:02:53,387 --> 00:02:57,067 Speaker 3: some players, they're almost fourth to have downtime because they're 48 00:02:57,067 --> 00:03:00,227 Speaker 3: having surgery or they're having a break. I think the 49 00:03:00,267 --> 00:03:02,827 Speaker 3: thing we always forget they made is is the mental 50 00:03:02,947 --> 00:03:06,027 Speaker 3: side is. You know, footy players play because they love it, 51 00:03:06,067 --> 00:03:08,507 Speaker 3: and they love it because they're playing a game with 52 00:03:08,547 --> 00:03:13,267 Speaker 3: their mates. That's incredibly important. But man, you just try 53 00:03:13,987 --> 00:03:16,267 Speaker 3: being a professional player and having a camera in your 54 00:03:16,267 --> 00:03:18,867 Speaker 3: face every time you go to a plat, or being 55 00:03:18,867 --> 00:03:22,707 Speaker 3: in the constant pressure of media assessment, the pressure of 56 00:03:22,987 --> 00:03:27,747 Speaker 3: having to perform in rugby's case in New Zealand, in Australia, 57 00:03:28,307 --> 00:03:30,347 Speaker 3: maybe in South Africa, in England at the end of 58 00:03:30,347 --> 00:03:33,827 Speaker 3: the year, that takes a mental and emotional toll. I 59 00:03:33,867 --> 00:03:36,147 Speaker 3: think the reason they've got to have eight off season 60 00:03:36,187 --> 00:03:39,907 Speaker 3: of some kind is to get that mental and emotional refreshment. 61 00:03:40,587 --> 00:03:43,267 Speaker 2: So once you do get back into preseason, whenever that 62 00:03:43,387 --> 00:03:48,667 Speaker 2: might be. How much of preseason initially anyway, is about 63 00:03:48,707 --> 00:03:50,187 Speaker 2: building an aerobic base. 64 00:03:51,947 --> 00:03:55,067 Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, this is the million dollar or the 65 00:03:55,507 --> 00:03:57,627 Speaker 3: hundreds of million dollar question. I think with all the 66 00:03:58,867 --> 00:04:01,267 Speaker 3: players that we've got running around at this time of 67 00:04:01,307 --> 00:04:05,947 Speaker 3: the year, the model has been usually those first two 68 00:04:06,027 --> 00:04:09,867 Speaker 3: or three weeks relatively gentle, easing back in with the 69 00:04:09,947 --> 00:04:14,907 Speaker 3: reintroduction of some skills work, maybe doing some easy running 70 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:18,827 Speaker 3: and gently coming back into it, and then progressively improving 71 00:04:19,187 --> 00:04:24,427 Speaker 3: an increasing intensity, making things a bit longer, more introducing contact, 72 00:04:24,827 --> 00:04:27,267 Speaker 3: which has got to be managed very carefully because they've 73 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:29,867 Speaker 3: got a huge season of contact. All those things that 74 00:04:29,947 --> 00:04:32,827 Speaker 3: take into account with the aim to have them what 75 00:04:32,867 --> 00:04:36,107 Speaker 3: we would call job ready on the first day of 76 00:04:36,147 --> 00:04:39,187 Speaker 3: the first round. Now, this is where I think it 77 00:04:39,227 --> 00:04:44,107 Speaker 3: gets really fascinating, because for some clubs they have in 78 00:04:44,587 --> 00:04:48,387 Speaker 3: all the codes. Some clubs they're off season is almost hellish, 79 00:04:48,987 --> 00:04:53,787 Speaker 3: it's it's I mean, I've seriously been only fairly recently 80 00:04:54,307 --> 00:04:58,587 Speaker 3: to NRL Press season with players throwing up training in 81 00:04:58,667 --> 00:05:03,947 Speaker 3: full heat, wrestling, then running, then wrestling, then running, and 82 00:05:03,987 --> 00:05:07,147 Speaker 3: I've seen some incredible things and in some ways that 83 00:05:07,547 --> 00:05:11,907 Speaker 3: element of the physical preparation is at a greater demand 84 00:05:12,987 --> 00:05:15,547 Speaker 3: without the contact than you'd see in a game. So 85 00:05:15,587 --> 00:05:20,027 Speaker 3: some teams really pride themselves on the intensity and the 86 00:05:20,107 --> 00:05:23,987 Speaker 3: quality and the level of off season and preseason training. 87 00:05:24,387 --> 00:05:26,507 Speaker 3: Others tend to be a bit more cautious. And I 88 00:05:26,507 --> 00:05:28,787 Speaker 3: think this is the game that your player as a 89 00:05:28,827 --> 00:05:32,467 Speaker 3: head coach is do I get the players in absolute 90 00:05:33,587 --> 00:05:37,187 Speaker 3: condition ready to go on game one or do we 91 00:05:37,227 --> 00:05:41,467 Speaker 3: hold back a little bit and allow some game fitness 92 00:05:41,467 --> 00:05:44,347 Speaker 3: to evolve over the first three or five rounds. I 93 00:05:44,427 --> 00:05:47,387 Speaker 3: don't know the competitions are so tough pointy that and 94 00:05:47,427 --> 00:05:49,467 Speaker 3: the points that you know a winner is worth the 95 00:05:49,507 --> 00:05:51,947 Speaker 3: same in round one as it is in round twenty five. 96 00:05:52,587 --> 00:05:54,827 Speaker 3: I don't know that you can actually take time to 97 00:05:54,907 --> 00:05:56,707 Speaker 3: build into game fitness anymore. 98 00:05:57,387 --> 00:06:00,307 Speaker 2: So basically what you're saying is that you need to 99 00:06:00,347 --> 00:06:04,027 Speaker 2: be firing on all cylinders in round one of the 100 00:06:04,067 --> 00:06:04,627 Speaker 2: new season. 101 00:06:06,707 --> 00:06:10,667 Speaker 3: And I think the competitions they're deliberately shaped, aren't they 102 00:06:10,707 --> 00:06:13,867 Speaker 3: to make competitions harder and tougher. There's no easy games 103 00:06:13,907 --> 00:06:16,507 Speaker 3: in the NRL at the moment. It's become a very 104 00:06:16,547 --> 00:06:21,707 Speaker 3: tight competition. The level of quality of games in all 105 00:06:21,747 --> 00:06:26,427 Speaker 3: the codes has become that there's no uncertainty of outcome 106 00:06:26,907 --> 00:06:30,587 Speaker 3: in far more games there's no really dominant two or three, 107 00:06:30,667 --> 00:06:33,907 Speaker 3: four or five teams. Is there's a real quality equality 108 00:06:33,947 --> 00:06:36,587 Speaker 3: and a lot of the codes, and I think because 109 00:06:36,587 --> 00:06:39,787 Speaker 3: of that, you can't afford to drop points. But then 110 00:06:39,827 --> 00:06:42,507 Speaker 3: that's again, that's the game, isn't it. That's the challenge 111 00:06:42,547 --> 00:06:46,667 Speaker 3: is if I, for example, had a team and we'd 112 00:06:46,707 --> 00:06:49,787 Speaker 3: had a pulk season last year the year before, we're 113 00:06:49,787 --> 00:06:52,707 Speaker 3: down around the bottom, you would more than likely And 114 00:06:52,787 --> 00:06:55,187 Speaker 3: this happens quite often. And I would imagine, say for 115 00:06:55,267 --> 00:06:57,627 Speaker 3: paramatter with Jason Ryles, they would have done it. Maybe 116 00:06:57,707 --> 00:07:00,787 Speaker 3: Benji Marshall in the NRL the teams that have really struggled, 117 00:07:01,627 --> 00:07:08,107 Speaker 3: having an outstanding physical preparation is a not a guaranteed way, 118 00:07:08,107 --> 00:07:11,507 Speaker 3: but it's a highly likely way to improve your performance 119 00:07:11,507 --> 00:07:14,187 Speaker 3: for the following year. But there's the problem is that 120 00:07:14,187 --> 00:07:17,027 Speaker 3: if you invest in this massive training load in the 121 00:07:17,027 --> 00:07:23,147 Speaker 3: off season, retally intense, really focused preparation in the preseason, 122 00:07:23,827 --> 00:07:26,627 Speaker 3: and you might have a blindingly good first five games, 123 00:07:26,707 --> 00:07:29,467 Speaker 3: you might lose an x seven because they're so injured 124 00:07:29,867 --> 00:07:33,307 Speaker 3: and so tired, because you've just got it wrong. And 125 00:07:33,547 --> 00:07:35,467 Speaker 3: but one of the great things in all the codes 126 00:07:36,147 --> 00:07:40,867 Speaker 3: is the introduction of sports science, of physiologists and strength 127 00:07:40,867 --> 00:07:45,067 Speaker 3: and conditioning professionals and physiotherapists, sports med staff who are 128 00:07:45,147 --> 00:07:49,387 Speaker 3: a monitoring training load constantly to try and find what's 129 00:07:49,467 --> 00:07:52,987 Speaker 3: the right balance so that we can win games but 130 00:07:53,187 --> 00:07:55,147 Speaker 3: not be overstretched or overloaded. 131 00:07:56,387 --> 00:08:00,427 Speaker 2: What a balance to strike off the training panic? Often 132 00:08:00,467 --> 00:08:03,307 Speaker 2: a new season brings new players to a team, new 133 00:08:03,347 --> 00:08:06,587 Speaker 2: members of coaching staff. How much of a preces and 134 00:08:06,667 --> 00:08:11,307 Speaker 2: campaign should be focused on integrating new faces into your setup? 135 00:08:12,747 --> 00:08:16,227 Speaker 3: Yeah, really good question, A really good question for the 136 00:08:16,267 --> 00:08:20,187 Speaker 3: teams and the senior coaches who've got a culture, so 137 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:23,627 Speaker 3: Craig Bellamy for example Melbourne in the NRL, And for 138 00:08:23,747 --> 00:08:27,467 Speaker 3: teams where they've got to set culture and experienced coach 139 00:08:27,547 --> 00:08:32,427 Speaker 3: and a group that's been together. The incoming players incoming 140 00:08:32,587 --> 00:08:37,867 Speaker 3: staff generally have to learn quickly to fit into that system. 141 00:08:37,907 --> 00:08:40,867 Speaker 3: So you know, youre the Brisbane Lines in the AFL 142 00:08:41,947 --> 00:08:45,827 Speaker 3: Chris Farton, highly experienced, very experienced staff. If you were 143 00:08:45,907 --> 00:08:48,947 Speaker 3: going into that environment, the premiers, you'd have to fit 144 00:08:48,987 --> 00:08:52,347 Speaker 3: into the Brisbane Lines way of doing things. That would 145 00:08:52,387 --> 00:08:55,707 Speaker 3: be the expectation in some other clubs. If you've been 146 00:08:55,867 --> 00:09:00,267 Speaker 3: brought in as a marquee player or as a new 147 00:09:00,307 --> 00:09:02,267 Speaker 3: coach with a high level of skill. In a particular, 148 00:09:02,947 --> 00:09:05,787 Speaker 3: the expectation would be you fit into the culture, you 149 00:09:05,787 --> 00:09:09,587 Speaker 3: build some free ships and connections that you've been recruited 150 00:09:09,667 --> 00:09:13,187 Speaker 3: specifically to make an impact, and there's an expectation that 151 00:09:13,267 --> 00:09:17,587 Speaker 3: you'll not just fit in maybe socially and culturally, but 152 00:09:18,107 --> 00:09:22,307 Speaker 3: technically and tactically and from a performance you're expected to 153 00:09:22,307 --> 00:09:24,907 Speaker 3: shake things up. You expected to come in and be 154 00:09:25,027 --> 00:09:27,867 Speaker 3: a bit of a disruptor and try to make a difference, 155 00:09:27,867 --> 00:09:29,867 Speaker 3: because that's why they paid you to come in. If 156 00:09:29,907 --> 00:09:32,667 Speaker 3: you're not coming in and shaking it up and making 157 00:09:32,667 --> 00:09:35,627 Speaker 3: a difference to a team that's battled, well why would 158 00:09:35,627 --> 00:09:38,867 Speaker 3: I have recruited you. So yeah, it depends, I think 159 00:09:38,867 --> 00:09:41,067 Speaker 3: on where the team is at. The team's got a 160 00:09:41,227 --> 00:09:43,347 Speaker 3: very set culture and you you and I have talked 161 00:09:43,387 --> 00:09:47,387 Speaker 3: about culture previously that you know. I remember having a 162 00:09:47,427 --> 00:09:50,507 Speaker 3: brief drop in with the Crusaders a long time ago 163 00:09:51,107 --> 00:09:54,627 Speaker 3: and they use the term a Crusaders type of player 164 00:09:54,907 --> 00:09:57,267 Speaker 3: and it was a wonderful phrase. And I know Geelong 165 00:09:57,347 --> 00:09:59,667 Speaker 3: you've used the same term. The Bulldogs use the same term. 166 00:10:00,027 --> 00:10:03,387 Speaker 3: Is they said, we go looking we recruit crusaders or 167 00:10:03,387 --> 00:10:07,947 Speaker 3: we recruit Bulldogs or recruit caps. We recruit peace people, coaches, athletes, 168 00:10:07,987 --> 00:10:10,867 Speaker 3: staff who are our kind of people because we know 169 00:10:10,987 --> 00:10:13,827 Speaker 3: our culture is right and we know that they'll come in, 170 00:10:14,187 --> 00:10:17,027 Speaker 3: they'll fit in, and they'll make us richer and a 171 00:10:17,027 --> 00:10:19,827 Speaker 3: little bit better. In some other places where they're less 172 00:10:19,867 --> 00:10:21,987 Speaker 3: certain of what they stand for and who they are, 173 00:10:22,587 --> 00:10:25,187 Speaker 3: they've got to target people who can make them better 174 00:10:25,547 --> 00:10:29,627 Speaker 3: and almost give them the opportunity to be disruptive and 175 00:10:29,667 --> 00:10:33,947 Speaker 3: make things different because what they're doing. You know, what's 176 00:10:33,987 --> 00:10:37,707 Speaker 3: that old great phrase about the definition of insanity is 177 00:10:37,747 --> 00:10:41,227 Speaker 3: doing the same thing and expecting a different result. So, yeah, 178 00:10:41,267 --> 00:10:43,947 Speaker 3: what you expect from players and coaches depends very much 179 00:10:44,027 --> 00:10:47,387 Speaker 3: on your culture and where the team at the moment. 180 00:10:48,467 --> 00:10:51,787 Speaker 2: Just to finish. If pre season doesn't go to plan 181 00:10:51,907 --> 00:10:54,507 Speaker 2: and you reach round one and the team is not 182 00:10:54,667 --> 00:10:57,067 Speaker 2: job ready, is not where you want them to be. 183 00:10:57,427 --> 00:11:00,747 Speaker 2: Is there a time in season to make up for 184 00:11:00,867 --> 00:11:04,347 Speaker 2: lost ground that you didn't achieve preseason? 185 00:11:06,587 --> 00:11:10,907 Speaker 3: There is, But there's got to be great communication between 186 00:11:10,947 --> 00:11:14,827 Speaker 3: the coaching staff, the players and the support team, the 187 00:11:14,867 --> 00:11:18,747 Speaker 3: strength conditioning, the performance analysts, the physias. Everyone's got to 188 00:11:18,787 --> 00:11:21,227 Speaker 3: be on the same board and be talking about it. Openly, 189 00:11:21,267 --> 00:11:25,267 Speaker 3: because if there's an issue, it needs to be identified 190 00:11:25,347 --> 00:11:30,147 Speaker 3: quickly and addressed with a degree of urgency. Having said that, 191 00:11:30,187 --> 00:11:34,227 Speaker 3: though piney, it's really important. So if you've sold the 192 00:11:34,267 --> 00:11:37,667 Speaker 3: players the idea that the playing style or the type 193 00:11:37,667 --> 00:11:39,067 Speaker 3: of game we're going to play this year is going 194 00:11:39,107 --> 00:11:42,467 Speaker 3: to be really successful, our system will work. And you 195 00:11:42,547 --> 00:11:44,267 Speaker 3: get to round one and you lose and you say, 196 00:11:44,307 --> 00:11:47,307 Speaker 3: so much, we've got it wrong, We're changing everything. It 197 00:11:47,467 --> 00:11:50,987 Speaker 3: confuses the players, and if they lose faith in you 198 00:11:51,027 --> 00:11:53,787 Speaker 3: as a coach, when they lose faith in their system, 199 00:11:54,187 --> 00:11:57,707 Speaker 3: then you could be headed for an absolute disaster. So 200 00:11:57,827 --> 00:12:01,547 Speaker 3: I often say the coaches and staff, you've got to 201 00:12:01,627 --> 00:12:05,267 Speaker 3: have a what if process for game one? What if 202 00:12:05,307 --> 00:12:09,107 Speaker 3: we win and we dominate? All right, what's week two 203 00:12:09,147 --> 00:12:12,227 Speaker 3: look like? What's week three look like? If we go okay, 204 00:12:12,347 --> 00:12:14,907 Speaker 3: what do we do? And if first week is a disaster, 205 00:12:15,227 --> 00:12:18,067 Speaker 3: what we do So that, if you're like, their response 206 00:12:18,147 --> 00:12:19,947 Speaker 3: to what's happened in game one has got to be 207 00:12:19,987 --> 00:12:23,427 Speaker 3: planned so that even if it's a complete failure, that 208 00:12:23,547 --> 00:12:29,467 Speaker 3: there's a calm, cool, systematic process to turning it around. 209 00:12:29,907 --> 00:12:34,267 Speaker 3: I often say to coaches remembers that players can smell 210 00:12:34,347 --> 00:12:38,507 Speaker 3: fear very quickly, and if they sense that you've had 211 00:12:38,507 --> 00:12:42,747 Speaker 3: them training October November, December January, getting them to believe 212 00:12:42,787 --> 00:12:45,187 Speaker 3: in you and believe in the system, and then you 213 00:12:45,347 --> 00:12:47,787 Speaker 3: dump it all out the door after one lost, Well 214 00:12:47,827 --> 00:12:50,827 Speaker 3: they go away on a minute. Maybe these guys don't 215 00:12:50,867 --> 00:12:53,387 Speaker 3: know what they're doing and it's every man for himself 216 00:12:53,467 --> 00:12:57,187 Speaker 3: or every woman for themselves. So yeah, you've got to 217 00:12:57,227 --> 00:13:01,107 Speaker 3: have what happens in round one really up the round five. 218 00:13:01,227 --> 00:13:03,347 Speaker 3: I think you've got to have a plan for how 219 00:13:03,387 --> 00:13:05,227 Speaker 3: you will respond to win, loss or draw. 220 00:13:06,667 --> 00:13:09,947 Speaker 2: In sight. As always from you, Wayne, thanks as always 221 00:13:10,107 --> 00:13:12,267 Speaker 2: for joining us across New Zealand with your expertise. 222 00:13:13,187 --> 00:13:15,667 Speaker 3: Always an absolute pleasure, my friend. I'm back in the 223 00:13:15,787 --> 00:13:18,027 Speaker 3: beautiful Shaky Isles in a few weeks. I'm down in 224 00:13:18,027 --> 00:13:21,787 Speaker 3: Tarrona doing some work in by a Plenty. If anyone's 225 00:13:21,787 --> 00:13:23,787 Speaker 3: down that way, please come up and say hello. 226 00:13:23,987 --> 00:13:25,827 Speaker 2: I'm sure you will get quite a few people doing 227 00:13:26,267 --> 00:13:28,667 Speaker 2: just that. Wayne, Thanks indeed as always for your time. 228 00:13:28,707 --> 00:13:31,907 Speaker 2: Wayne Goldsmith, regular part of Weekend Sport across the year. 229 00:13:31,947 --> 00:13:34,267 Speaker 2: Find out more about Wayne and the work he does 230 00:13:34,307 --> 00:13:39,267 Speaker 2: and read some of his articles at wgcoaching dot com. 231 00:13:38,467 --> 00:13:41,667 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen live 232 00:13:41,747 --> 00:13:45,067 Speaker 1: to News Talk zed B weekends from midday, or follow 233 00:13:45,067 --> 00:13:46,707 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio