1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Time for politics Wednesday. That means Mark Mitchell's Wather's along 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: with Ginny Anderson. Good morning to both of you. I 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: really don't know. Do either of you get donations to 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: pay for clothing? Okay? 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 2: Should you allowance? 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Do you do? Do you get an allowance? 7 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 2: Mark all? So, I'm very lucky that Sirah has got 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: a much better fashion I have. 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: So I sort of it's funny you should say that 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: because I often I mean, not that you're not suitorially adequate, 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: but it appears, it appears you wear the same thing 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 1: all the time, which is which is a blue, blue 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: tie and white. 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: I just foind it very easy. I don't need to 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 2: put too much thought to what I'm going to do. 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: No, no, it's quite right. Clive j started that many 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: years ago. Well, the same thing every time on television, 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: so you never sort of criticized them, which is why 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: I thought of e. Ginny the other day. You were 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: wearing last week a very nice suit which was I mean, 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: it's very hard to tell with lights and all that, 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: but but it looked like don't know, tan yellow whatever 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: with black blacks. 24 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I bought it and actually it was 25 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 3: just a little shot in the Greaytown and I've had 26 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 3: it for years and it's just very comfy. 27 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, I never say no, never say it's comfy, 28 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: because that's no no, don't say stuff like that. Don't 29 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: say it's comfy. 30 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 2: It's funny. What it was just blessed gold of the 31 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 2: commonio colors, so it sort of probably, I don't know. 32 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: Have to wear tartan no mark. 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: You know that's true, you can. I'm assuming Ginny with 34 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: the Commentario thing claim some credit given the investigation was 35 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: three years long, and that means roughly two of them 36 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: were yours. I guess. 37 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. So Nover was the operation that kicked off in 38 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: twenty nineteen and that was more focused money wandering, So 39 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 3: it has been over three years exercise. But that's what happens, 40 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: you know, police. And full credit to Circintendent Breaks Williams. 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: I've worked with him. He's an amazing police officer who 42 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 3: takes us work very seriously and once he's focused on 43 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 3: taking out a group of offenders, he's very determined and 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 3: usually gets the outcome he's looking for. So it's great 45 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 3: for New Zealand to see such a huge operation of 46 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: myth and fettering money hondering and general misery peddling being 47 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 3: shut down by the police. 48 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Do you reckon mark you are making and trying not 49 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: to make this too political, but the police, then let's 50 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: ask it this way. The police are making a genuine 51 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: dent at last in the gangs in general. 52 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt. I mean, this operation is quite 53 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: some of the outstanding policing and showcases just how good 54 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: our police are and I just want to acknowledge them 55 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: full credit. I was down in christ Church when they 56 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 2: started the operation and there we had over three hundred 57 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: police officers involved in this operation. So it's just an 58 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: outspending result. By then. I think that you've seen very 59 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 2: clearly in the last eight months that there's been a 60 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: big change in the way that police are policing gangs. 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 2: They were taking over our provincial towns. They were doing 62 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: these convoy runs with our driving on timecoming traffic, with 63 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: the harassing and intimidating members of the public. That stopped 64 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: because the police have been sent a very clear direction 65 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: that they're to put the proper resource in place. Now 66 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: they're using the police eagle. We had three gang runs 67 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: last weekend. The public, all public had their own rights 68 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: protected over and above the gangs. You don't see them 69 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: on the front pages of the paper anymore. And by 70 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: the way, we've still got a lot more work to do, 71 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: but we're definitely tricked in the right direction. 72 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 3: Good Sorry, carry, I was going to say that the 73 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 3: big wave we saw was when those fireboat ones got 74 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: kicked out of Australia and came back in common Heroes 75 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: was part of that wave. And the risks that now 76 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 3: Australia have changed that law again that we could say 77 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: more coming back in the future so that one of 78 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: it flus in a massive on the game landscape in 79 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: New Zealand. And now that Australian law has changed, we 80 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 3: need to watch carefully that we don't see another influx. 81 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: Do you, in your time in cabinet, without giving cabinet 82 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: secrets away, did your government ever consider repatriating problematic Australians 83 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: back to Australia, And because we have historically chosen. 84 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 3: Not to do that, yeah, we did look at options 85 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 3: and looked at that. But it's the one problem is 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: that Australian law is Australian law, and that sovereign and 87 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: so a we so if they change their law we have. 88 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 3: All we can do is negotiate and that's exactly what I. 89 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: Get that part. But we can send the bat like 90 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: there's a bloken prison here at the moment for doing 91 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: a lot in christ it's a while back. Who was Australian. 92 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: We could send them. Yeah, yeah, we just don't have 93 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: that many. We could, but we don't have as many. 94 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 3: We do when we do when they're really bad, but 95 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 3: we just don't have the numbers. 96 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so we do we do do that because my 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: understanding was we never do. 98 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: I would send them back, but the number is disproportionate. 99 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 2: And obviously the number that we're sending back to Australia 100 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 2: is much more than the numbers are sending. 101 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: Back to you. Oka, carry on. 102 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: Now it's going to say, look, we raise us. The 103 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: Prime Minister has raised us with the Australian Prime Ministers, 104 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: with the Council of Ministers. In Australian meltoms. 105 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: We raise this possibly, yeah exactly, and you get nowhere. Unfortunately, 106 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: mind you, I five was Australian and I do the 107 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: same thing. Ginny, I've been following with interest. I personally 108 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: think you're overegging it a bit, but nevertheless I understand 109 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: why you're doing it. Your your prosecution and Nicole McKey 110 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: and what she's trying to do with guns in this country. What, 111 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: in simple terms, is your great concern about her being 112 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 1: in charge of gun reform. 113 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 3: That she has proposed to wind back all the changes 114 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: we made in twenty nineteen and a combination of just 115 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: too much has she has. She said that she's pleached 116 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: that soon. Well, she's wound back already what happens in 117 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: the gun range, which has to create a loophole where 118 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: you can get mo O now without according it. She 119 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 3: said she'll keep a category weapons out of the registry, 120 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: which is seventy percent of features that police get it 121 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 3: for legal guns, and she won't rule out bringing back 122 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: military style weapons. Now when you're beings like the common 123 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 3: heros who are using paramilitary training tactics and want to 124 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 3: get their hands on datrious guns, and you've got someone 125 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 3: proposing to make it easy to get one, that's a 126 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 3: real risk for New Zealand public safety. 127 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: But that's all the illegal side of the equation, though, 128 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: isn't it, Which is the debate that came out of 129 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: christ Churche whether law abiding citizens were being inconvenienced and 130 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: that if you were, you know, a bad bugget, you'd 131 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: still get your hands on weapons. And I mean, and 132 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: that's in that nothing's changed, has it. 133 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 3: Fifty percent of police investigations around diverted firearms, so legal 134 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 3: firearms that end up to be in the hands of 135 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 3: criminals revolve around licensed firearm owners. So we know that 136 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 3: licensed fireum owners are purchasing weapons and passing them on 137 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 3: to the criminals, and the firearm registreet is the best 138 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 3: way to track there, and police will say that, and 139 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 3: I think Mike believes that as well. 140 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,719 Speaker 1: And you're behind the redis three Andre Marte. 141 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And but what he's doing is fair amongering. 142 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: She's not. They are facts. Nicole McKee is the Associate 143 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 2: Myst of Justice. She has to a review of the 144 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: arm set. The changes she made around them, around the 145 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: hunting clubs was quite simply a technical one to do 146 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 2: with administration, and any changes that are going to be made, 147 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: any substantive changes were made will have to go through cabinet. 148 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: And none of the things that Ginny has is talking about, 149 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 2: it's been proposed, all. 150 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 3: Okay, right, I think, well she hasn't had a change. 151 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: You no longer need to record the sales of firearms 152 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: or amminition on gun rangers. That's been done, and there 153 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 3: are real concerns. I've heard from police that criminal can 154 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: get on to arrange pregending not purchased nine boxes of 155 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: blitz use three and pocket the rest and there's no 156 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: way of tricking that now. Previously that couldn't be done. 157 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 3: And now that all right? 158 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: So say Jenny's right, Mark, and what what she suggests 159 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: does come to pass or get before cabin Are you, 160 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: as policeman aster comfortable with them? 161 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's fair for me to say that 162 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: anything Ginny says needs to be verified. But absolutely, look, 163 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: this has got to go through a cabinet process. 164 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: I understand that. So say she's right, and it's in 165 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: front of cabinet now and you've suddenly got are you 166 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: comfortable with it? 167 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: So all I say is this, I can't talk to 168 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: future cabinet decisions that will be totally inappropriate. What I 169 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 2: say is this, this government is fully focused on making 170 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,959 Speaker 2: the public safer, and the cold is fully focused on 171 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: doing the same thing when you look at their history. 172 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: She has been an advisor around public safety for a 173 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: long time on firearms. But the problem that we had, 174 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 2: as we had the last government was focused in all 175 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: the wrong places. We've seen a massive pliferation of firearms 176 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 2: within the criminal fraternity, and they are the ones that 177 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 2: are rest of the public. 178 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: Okay, do you think Ginny as passionate as you may 179 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: be about the subject. It's actually one of those issues 180 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: that can turn the time for a government or otherwise, 181 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: or in other words, most people who don't own guns 182 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: don't care. 183 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 3: I think it can, and I think I think Mark 184 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 3: is deep down, I think he is consumed because he 185 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: knows that she des public safety as her desires. But 186 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 3: she gets regular briefings from firearm's lobby. She's getting more 187 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 3: information from them from even her own officials, and we 188 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 3: know that through the OIA process. So she has got 189 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: a very clear agenda about making those high end military 190 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 3: style weapons available on ranges. And the risk is if 191 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 3: they're available on rangers, they can find their way into 192 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: the hands of criminals, and that is dangerous for New Zealand. 193 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: And I think Mark would know that because it's frontline 194 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 3: police officers who are most at risk when those guns 195 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: get in the wrong heads. 196 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: Mart Well, I'd say that most of my life has 197 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 2: been dedicated to public safety and the safety of us 198 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 2: as a country and I will not let anything happen, 199 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: certainly while I'm sitting in Kevin a cabinet that would 200 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: that would do anything to put the public at risk. 201 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: And I know that I'm com united with all of 202 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 2: my cabinet colleagues across the Coalition government and it's quite 203 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 2: the opposite. We're very focused on making our country one 204 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: of the safest countries in the world because we were 205 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 2: back rapidly under the previous government. 206 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: Well there, both of you. Well done, Mark Mitchell, Ginny Anderson. 207 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 208 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 2: news talks there'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 209 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.