1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,240 Speaker 1: All right. 2 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 2: The big story yesterday was the announcement of citizens arrests, 3 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 2: and we thought retailers would love them. But a lot 4 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 2: of retailers came out and they did not seem to 5 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 2: be on board with the government's proposed changes to the 6 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 2: citizen arrest laws. You can still do it now, but 7 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 2: it's pretty pretty difficult. And now the new proposal is 8 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: to allow citizens to intervene and stop any crimes act 9 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 2: offense at any time of the day and allowing them 10 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: to detain alleged offenders and to use restraints. So retailers 11 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 2: that came out yesterday and they were concerned that this 12 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: will end up actually increasing crime and putting staff at risk. 13 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: And so I'm joined now by Retail New Zealand Chief 14 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: executive Carolyn young Heller. 15 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: Carolyn, whatever, how are you this morning? 16 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 2: I'm very well, what's your problem with it? 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: Look, the challenge was this is that retailers are not 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: trained to deal with law enforcement issues, which is what 19 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: we're talking about. When you've most or any training that 20 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: you never see around retail from specialist training providers that 21 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: are always talking about how you remain harm, you don't 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: you don't engage in with inwardly with the alleged offenders 23 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: in your store. You don't physically engage with them. You 24 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: keep a safe distance. You try to get the nails 25 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: the store as soon as possible. What retailers want to 26 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: be able to do is to be able to legally 27 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: be able to ask to get the stop back. All 28 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: of our members have told us they don't want to 29 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: be able to do that in a physical way. They 30 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: want to be able to get people out of their 31 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: premises and they want to be able to trespass them 32 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: with the law that's got some teeth in it, so 33 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: that they won't be able to return to their store 34 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: again and create harm. Actually physically engaging with something it 35 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: is not something that retailers do. You know, it's an 36 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: extremely dangerous thing. You don't know is somebody on medication? 37 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: Are they on drugs? Do they have a hidden weapon. 38 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: A lot of retail workers are quite young. You know 39 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people that work on shop tools. Many 40 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: of us have had our first jobs in retail. You 41 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: don't have the life experience or the knowledge around how 42 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: you want to agent that sort of space, and we 43 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: fear that it will create a situation where if an 44 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: offender thinks that they might be a physically approached and 45 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: restraint that they will come and armed with more expansive weapons. 46 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: We'll see more knives or their guns, all of those 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: sorts of things. 48 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 2: But this is really actually I caught it an announcement 49 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: of an announcement. Because this is an announcement of a proposal. 50 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: It was there needed to be a lot more clarification 51 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: about what is meant by detaining and what is meant 52 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: by using restraints, in fact, what is meant by the 53 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: entire law. So obviously it's going to Select Committee. Obviously 54 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: it's going to be debated, So you're going to have 55 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 2: the opportunity to go there and eyeball Justice Minister Paul 56 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: Goldsmith and make these changes, don't you. 57 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: We'll certainly be making a strong submission about this, and 58 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: we know that in legislation and case law already there's 59 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's already defined what a reasonable force looks like. 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: And when you're talking about restraints, we know that they're 61 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: talking about mechanical restraints, so you're talking about handcuffs and 62 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: or something like cable ties and things like that, So 63 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, we know a lot about what they're already 64 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: talking about and you know, retail just isn't set up 65 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: to be detaining offenders in store. 66 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and one of the parties that came out and 67 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: weren't full bore into it was supermarkets, which we everyone 68 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: was a bit surprised at because we've all seen people 69 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: waltz out at supermarkets with stuff. But as they said, 70 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: they've already got their security guards, They've already got all 71 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: this the same concerns that you have about the whole process. 72 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 2: So you know, the point is, shouldn't retailers be working 73 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: together to actually sort themselves out without the help of 74 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: the government. 75 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: So we are absolutely working together around what we need 76 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: to do to prevent retail crime, and our focus is 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: on prevention and keeping people safe. Every business has to 78 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: comply to the health and safety regulations, and if you're 79 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: putting staff potentially in harm's way by having to engage 80 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: with an alleged defender in store, then you're not going 81 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: to be able to come live with heart and safety regulation. 82 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: So you're going to be in lots of trouble with 83 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: the labored department. So, you know, preventive measures like facial 84 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: recognition technology where you can you're identifying prior offenders in 85 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: your store and ensuring that they don't come in store 86 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: really ways to keep staff and customers safe. We know 87 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: that in retail and specifically if you're thinking about social markets, 88 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: between thirty five and fifty percent of offenders are recipibus offenders, 89 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: so they're coming back time and time again. Facial recognition 90 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: can stop them coming in the door. So the use 91 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: of technology moving forward, it's really important. 92 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: Carolyn, I thank you so much. Carolyn Young is the 93 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: Retail New Zealand chief executive and yes she does have 94 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: a mandate to speak on behalf of retailers and a 95 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: Texas says the minister clearly said yesterday the citizen arrest 96 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: law was for dairy owners. Yes, but there was no 97 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: detail on how it would actually work. And he said that, 98 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: he said, we're about to talk about this, so we're 99 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: talking about it. 100 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live 101 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: to News Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays, or 102 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.