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Speaker 1: Thomas Coglin, the Herald's political editors, with us.

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Speaker 2: Thomas, Hello, hello here that welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you very much. Congrats on the job. How

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Speaker 1: it's day one for you, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: Day one? Day one? Yeah, it's been great so far.

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Speaker 2: I've really enjoyed it. Were a bit nervous, but I'm

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Speaker 2: doing my best.

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Speaker 1: Oh good, now, you'll be fantastic out it, Thomas, don't

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Speaker 1: worry about a thing. Now, tell me what you make

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Speaker 1: of this lux and versus Winston thing in the trade

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Speaker 1: war comments. Is it as the Prime Minister says a

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Speaker 1: media beat up?

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Speaker 2: I have to say I don't think it is. I

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Speaker 2: think it's probably inappropriate Winston Peter's over the weekend making

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Speaker 2: these remarks that calling the words that the Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: has been using hysterical and short sighted, those weren't directly

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Speaker 2: at what the Prime Minister had been saying. They were

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Speaker 2: at people who were using similar words to what the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister had been using. So reading to that, what

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Speaker 2: you will? I think? And you heard David Seymour say

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Speaker 2: it on the Country earlier today that the Prime Minister

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Speaker 2: is basically the de facto foreign minister and in public

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Speaker 2: at least, he should probably have his way when it

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Speaker 2: comes to deciding which direction the country goes at and

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Speaker 2: goes in and the foreign affairs kind of kind of world.

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Speaker 2: That said, I do, I do really think that that

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Speaker 2: Winston has a point when it comes to the lack

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Speaker 2: of consultation. This is a big pivot, like the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister's decision to hit the phones to basically build this

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Speaker 2: anti unofficially anti Trump coalition of free traders. That is

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Speaker 2: a big decision for New Zealand to go out on

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Speaker 2: a limb and be one of the countries that is

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Speaker 2: most notably in support of free trade and against what

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Speaker 2: the Americans are doing. And it probably would have been

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Speaker 2: wise if he had circulated that amongkst not just New

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Speaker 2: Zealand first, but that too the coalition.

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Speaker 1: But Thomas, this is not going to be a surprise

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Speaker 1: to anybody that this is New Zealand's position on trade. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: we are one of the leading lights in free trade.

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Speaker 1: So what is Winston worried about?

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Speaker 2: Yes, you're absolutely right. It would look quite ridiculous if

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Speaker 2: New Zealand came out and said where in supportive tariffs?

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Speaker 2: And cones knows what I actually thought that the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister's speech on Thursday was one of his best, where

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Speaker 2: he said, you know, in the nineteen seventies, we tried

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Speaker 2: to put up tariffs and shut the world out and

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Speaker 2: pretend that nothing was happening, and it was an absolute disaster.

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Speaker 2: And that's certainly a very accurate description of what happened there.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, there's no surprise that New Zealand do is

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Speaker 2: a free trading country. We're probably one of the most

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Speaker 2: free trading countries in the world. So there is obviously

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Speaker 2: our position. I think we're Winston's coming from and Winston

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Speaker 2: Peters I should be more respectful and my new job,

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Speaker 2: the Foreign Minister, I think where he's coming from. Is

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Speaker 2: is it wise to be sticking our head above the

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Speaker 2: parapet you know? Yeah, yeah, And you know those remarks

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Speaker 2: that that were made in the Rose Garden where Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump's sort of like, well, look, these are your tariffs,

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Speaker 2: but if you retaliate and if you a couple of stink,

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Speaker 2: well we can go further and farther. And you think, right, well,

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Speaker 2: I think we'll just take our ten percent and just

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Speaker 2: quietly go about our business. And that's probably more where

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Speaker 2: Winston Peters is coming and it's a fair.

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Speaker 1: Point to say that the Prime Minister is the de

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Speaker 1: facto foreign minister and therefore should get his way, right,

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Speaker 1: But if you are looking at the two of them,

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Speaker 1: you'd be dumb not to take the advice of Winston Peters,

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Speaker 1: who is our most experienced foreign minister, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know, Winston Peters has got

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Speaker 2: a really good read on on how the Trump administration

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Speaker 2: thinks and operates. I mean, and that's pretty difficult because

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Speaker 2: the way it thinks and operates changes from out were

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Speaker 2: and and certainly you know you've seen well you saw

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Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, right with with Ted Cruz getting

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Speaker 2: grumpy about that that that story in the Israeli newspapers

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Speaker 2: about Israeli citizens needing a certain paperwork to come to

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Speaker 2: New Zealand. That was you know, wrong in the end,

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Speaker 2: but he got very grumpy and it turned into a

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Speaker 2: massive pilava over in the States. You really want to

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Speaker 2: not be on the Americans radar at the moment. They

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Speaker 2: are they are but trigger happy at the moment. And

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Speaker 2: I think you know that's that's certainly where Winston Peters

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Speaker 2: is coming from. Regardless of the point I think the

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Speaker 2: primes the point that Prime Minister is making most people

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Speaker 2: agree with, even labors sort of and and people on

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Speaker 2: the left. There's a really bipartisan view that that we

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Speaker 2: are a free trading nation and what the Americans are

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Speaker 2: doing right now is bad for us. But but whether

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Speaker 2: or not you need to be drawing attention to it

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Speaker 2: right now, that is certainly something on which the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister and the Foreign miners that don't appear to be

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Speaker 2: on the same page.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough, Listen, I looked at this tourism funding announcement.

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Speaker 1: I thought, for nearly fourteen million bucks to bring about

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Speaker 1: twenty four thousand people here assumes like a hell of

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. It was a five hundred bucks

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Speaker 1: per person, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I haven't actually done done the math on that myself,

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Speaker 2: but yes, certainly it's it's I mean, it's the tourism

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Speaker 2: numbers are down, but on on COVID levels it's unclear

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Speaker 2: to me, and I'm not sure the Prime Minister made

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Speaker 2: a strong case today as to whether it's the advertising

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Speaker 2: and the marketing that is responsible for them not coming

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Speaker 2: here when you look at the numbers. I think the

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Speaker 2: biggest issue is that China is currently having a bit

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Speaker 2: of an economic meltdown, which is probably another reason why

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Speaker 2: you'd want to be be careful with the Americans because

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Speaker 2: when you look at our trade stead it's the Americans

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Speaker 2: who are really driving the growth at the moment. China

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Speaker 2: is not really the golden goose it used to be.

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Speaker 2: So really, if we're looking to what's wrong with tourism,

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Speaker 2: it's looking at that China number, which I think is

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Speaker 2: sitting at about fifty percent nearly of pre COVID levels,

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Speaker 2: and thinking how do we get that back to normal?

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Speaker 2: Because again, when you look at the American tourism numbers,

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Speaker 2: European tourism numbers, Australian tourism numbers, they're all looking much

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Speaker 2: better than they used to be. So I'm not really

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Speaker 2: sure it's a marketing thing that's possibly some visa issues

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Speaker 2: there and then global economic Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, okay, you're right, Thomas. If you if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about a piddley amount like fourteen million dollars, then

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Speaker 1: what you're really doing is you just trying to look

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Speaker 1: like you're doing something, because that kind of money is

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Speaker 1: not going to shift the market, is it? I?

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Speaker 2: No? I In short, I would I I tourism is

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Speaker 2: not my my, my area of expertise. But it would

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Speaker 2: be one would think would be quite incredible if you'd

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Speaker 2: spend fourteen million dollars in all of a sudden. I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to be proven wrong, happy to be proven wrong,

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Speaker 2: but at first blush, that seems that would seem unlikely.

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Speaker 1: Thomas, listen again, congrats all the job. Really looking forward

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Speaker 1: to seeing how you go. I know you'll be amazing.

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Speaker 1: That's Thomas Coglan, the Herald's new political editor. For more

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Speaker 1: from Hither Duplessy Alan Drive, listen live to news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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