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Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct with
Speaker 1: Elliott Smith powered.
Speaker 2: By News Talks EDB.
Speaker 3: Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Access Solutions, elevating you
Speaker 3: and your business to a higher level. After a few weeks,
Speaker 3: we've hit the lights back on in the Rugby Direct
Speaker 3: Auckland studio and we are back again. Elligott Smith with
Speaker 3: me Liam napier As was to review the weekend that
Speaker 3: was in Rugby and Liam, great to have your company
Speaker 3: once again. I should flag this to the top of
Speaker 3: the podcast. The handover has happened, but.
Speaker 2: Special was very touching, very moving and it was only
Speaker 2: fitting rarely after we spent a week in the Capitol
Speaker 2: and it really won you over that we finally you
Speaker 2: finally made good on the bet and you are now
Speaker 2: willing to line supporter and I for one welcome you
Speaker 2: to the fan and look forward to celebrating this year's
Speaker 2: title with them.
Speaker 3: Well on the back of what we saw on the
Speaker 3: weekends being absolutely pumped by Counties Monaco that shirt. Very
Speaker 3: grateful I am for Wellington Rugby donating it and sending
Speaker 3: it up is going to depreciate seriously in Valley on
Speaker 3: the back of that lost to Counties.
Speaker 2: Well look, let's just say Canterbury had their worst loss
Speaker 2: in history.
Speaker 4: So it's a good time vie to jump ship.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's go the Tasman Marco. Right, let's get
Speaker 3: into the weekend that was. You can catch a video
Speaker 3: by the way, Liam's going to put up on his
Speaker 3: social media if it's not the already but later on
Speaker 3: ons the podcast is out. But let's get into the
Speaker 3: weekend that was the All Blacks thirty three, the Wallaby's
Speaker 3: at thirteen in the Capitol final game of the Rugby Championship,
Speaker 3: second game out of the Bledderslow Cup series, and the
Speaker 3: All Blacks were I don't know how you to describe it, Liam,
Speaker 3: but I'd say dominant without being clinical and left a
Speaker 3: fair few points out there. But it was certainly I
Speaker 3: thought an improvement on the week prior from the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: A couple of things extinguished, the Capital Curse, the last
Speaker 3: twenty minute fades, all those things sort of out but
Speaker 3: still left about out there on the park. What did
Speaker 3: you make of it?
Speaker 4: They did?
Speaker 2: Yes, look it was a step forward for the ou
Speaker 2: Blecks and it needed to be particularly just given the opposition. Right,
Speaker 2: let's be real about where the Wallerbries are at tenth
Speaker 2: in the world. You gave him a good uppercut last
Speaker 2: week and said that they were the in your type
Speaker 2: five column the Westerndies of world rugby, so I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if they put that on their changing room walls.
Speaker 2: Possibly may have inspired this start, actually because they started
Speaker 2: really well.
Speaker 3: Started love the West Indies started strongly. Chris gailisk came
Speaker 3: out of the blocks herely then had nothing to back
Speaker 3: it up.
Speaker 2: That's right, swung for the fences and did really bring
Speaker 2: a fearless attitude and should have been up fourteen. Nils
Speaker 2: had the Oblacks on the rack to a degree, some
Speaker 2: nice Joshits specials scrum moves and we've seen that over
Speaker 2: the last two weeks, but couldn't maintain it.
Speaker 4: They don't have the depth.
Speaker 2: They had some prolonged periods on the All Blacks line
Speaker 2: in the second half, but they conceded twenty one unanswered
Speaker 2: points and the All Blacks were vastly improved in the
Speaker 2: second half. They got a bit more pay from their
Speaker 2: bench to mite Williams was excellent, Patrick Tupolotu and look,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'd go as far as say
Speaker 2: the final quarters fades have been banished, but certainly the
Speaker 2: capital curse has and it was a positive step for
Speaker 2: the All Blacks and what was a patchy Rugby Championship campaign.
Speaker 3: It was similar the last week in periods where I
Speaker 3: felt the dam was about to break off the Wallabies
Speaker 3: and the All Blacks just couldn't quite get there. The
Speaker 3: cross for tries. It felt early in the second spell
Speaker 3: that if they had scored one they might have been
Speaker 3: able to score one, two, three pretty quickly. As it was,
Speaker 3: they got scored one when able to back it up.
Speaker 3: There were little eras in the twenty two. There was
Speaker 3: a t J. Pett and Ara knock on from the
Speaker 3: quick tap which very much felt like lived by the sword,
Speaker 3: Die by the sword sort of stuff from the All Blacks.
Speaker 3: You're right, the last twenty could still have been better
Speaker 3: from the All Blacks. They finally got some points in
Speaker 3: the last twenty, but I thought more so than the
Speaker 3: perhaps the attack, the defensive shift from the All Blacks
Speaker 3: is probably the most pleasing considered that try early could
Speaker 3: have gone fourteen kneel down. But for a ball being
Speaker 3: placed in the end goal when it was kicked through
Speaker 3: bone Barratt mister it Jake Gorden could have got there
Speaker 3: and then the end of the while he could have
Speaker 3: got a consolation try at the end, and I think
Speaker 3: the try wouldn't have mattered. But it was quite pleasing
Speaker 3: to see the All Blacks put in a shift on
Speaker 3: their line didn't break. I think there's a lot to
Speaker 3: be learned from that, and the defensive system seems to
Speaker 3: be holding up relatively well better than it did the
Speaker 3: previous week any when they were cut to shreds a
Speaker 3: little bit, especially when they were down to thirteen.
Speaker 2: The All Blacks defense this year's on the whole been
Speaker 2: pretty good and they're actually bringing some really aggressive defense
Speaker 2: and looking to play and that Bill Blacks for me,
Speaker 2: have looked at their best from an unstructured play and
Speaker 2: that was again evident in Wellington. They scored from turnovers,
Speaker 2: they scored from broken play, whether it's Sevarice coming off
Speaker 2: as wing or Boden Barrett ghosting across field, Wallace a
Speaker 2: TSI in the midfields roaming off floating, so putting pressure
Speaker 2: on with your defense and getting turnover possession. That's when
Speaker 2: the All Blacks thrive. But on their line this was
Speaker 2: a real standard bearing second half wasn't As Scott Barrett
Speaker 2: talked to that in the postmatch press, Currents talked about
Speaker 2: the fact that that needed to be the standard that
Speaker 2: they carry north because they are going to be under
Speaker 2: massive pressure at times against Ireland, England France and they
Speaker 2: are going to need to remain composed and their discipline
Speaker 2: still remains a bit of an issue. I think they
Speaker 2: considered the first six penalties against the Wallabies. There's another
Speaker 2: late yellow card maybe a bit harsh for Caleb Clark,
Speaker 2: but they think that's six in the past four tests.
Speaker 2: So discipline is still an area they need to improve.
Speaker 2: But that defense on their own line was a big
Speaker 2: step forward.
Speaker 3: It was I thought Nicko Mischa Kelly actually had a
Speaker 3: pretty good game with the referee. He was consistent. He
Speaker 3: was slightly pedantic, but at least he was consistent. One
Speaker 3: of that quick release ball very very much and we
Speaker 3: saw a lot of early penalties basically hit the floor
Speaker 3: and he'd blow it up, you know. He was onto
Speaker 3: that pretty quickly. So it took while for the All
Speaker 3: Blacks to adjust to what he wanted to see. I
Speaker 3: think they got that by the second spell. Discipline was
Speaker 3: a lot better after halftime. Yellow cart aside, what the
Speaker 3: All Blacks did well as well. With the tackle count
Speaker 3: it was roughly one hundred versus fifty. The All Blacks
Speaker 3: had to make one hundred and the first spell Wallaby's
Speaker 3: just fifty. By full time it was relatively even around
Speaker 3: one hundred and seventy each and so the Warbies had
Speaker 3: to make about one hundred and twenty second half tackles
Speaker 3: and the All Blacks had to make a roughly seventy themselves,
Speaker 3: So they forced the Warbies into a bit more defensive
Speaker 3: pressure in the second spell. Able to build periods pressure
Speaker 3: under for periods of time, and I think it's been
Speaker 3: an issue with the All Blacks is building pressure that've
Speaker 3: scored tryers, breakout tries, but pressure in the twenty two
Speaker 3: has not been something been able to do often enough
Speaker 3: this year like teams have been able to do to
Speaker 3: them building pressure in the twenty two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't perfect.
Speaker 2: There were still some a lot of frustrating moments handling
Speaker 2: eras there was a number of offloads that were dropped
Speaker 2: and the TJ. Pedrian are a quick tap from a penalty,
Speaker 2: you know a little instances that are still not quite clicking.
Speaker 2: But the last quarter, the finish was vastly improved, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Bill Blacks had one try denied for Cody Taylor bobble
Speaker 2: at the ruck, but then they scored in that last
Speaker 2: quarter and they did apply a lot of pressure to
Speaker 2: the Wallabies in that periods. So it was a massive
Speaker 2: steps forward from the previous week in Sydney when they collapsed,
Speaker 2: and from blowing leads against South Africa in South Africa,
Speaker 2: the Pumas and Wellington previously. And thank god that the
Speaker 2: Capitol curse has been broken because that's been absolutely bizarre, hudo,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 3: It has been very very odd, no rhyme or reason
Speaker 3: to it, you know, draws, losses, It's been very odd.
Speaker 3: But fortunately that's banished until we get to next year
Speaker 3: when you can bring out the stat the All Blacks
Speaker 3: have won only two of their last what is eight
Speaker 3: at sky Stadium, so did but maybe not exactly buried.
Speaker 3: A couple other things from the game, Sam Kine, tjped
Speaker 3: Andara Milestone game, so them Sam Kain's one hundredth TJ
Speaker 3: Pedanara final game on home soil. I think it was
Speaker 3: an eighty eighth test. On the weekends. We were in
Speaker 3: the media conference room when the Wallabies were giving their
Speaker 3: post match media conference and it's right next to where
Speaker 3: the All Blacks changing rooms were for that night, and
Speaker 3: the Wolves were absolutely shaking with a pretty fiery hucker
Speaker 3: which we later found out was from the All Blacks
Speaker 3: towards samkin led by t J Petanara. Look a special
Speaker 3: occasion for both of those players to sign off their
Speaker 3: careers in New Zealand. We saw the guard of honor
Speaker 3: for Sam Kain. Look special night for both of them.
Speaker 3: We're going to get into whether they should go on
Speaker 3: the Endigate tour but later on. But you know, there's
Speaker 3: only few teen all back centurions and now Sam Kane
Speaker 3: is one of them.
Speaker 2: He is and there's probably been none other that's gone
Speaker 2: through such adversity to get there. I didn't think either
Speaker 2: of them, you know, had the greatest games, to be honest.
Speaker 2: I thought Sam missed a couple of pretty obvious tackles
Speaker 2: in the first half and TJ was a bit you know,
Speaker 2: erratic at times. But it is a big occasion and
Speaker 2: It is a really a nice way for those guys
Speaker 2: to finish with a victory with standing ovations when when
Speaker 2: they left the field. The Postmas presentation was very emotional
Speaker 2: for Sam Kane, Boden Barrett presenting his cap and as
Speaker 2: you mentioned, the inner sanctum hucker so got. He's a
Speaker 2: guy who has been through a broken neck. He fronted
Speaker 2: through the lows of m Foster era and the red
Speaker 2: card in the World Cup Final and you know, fully
Speaker 2: deserving of such a milestone, isn't he.
Speaker 4: And interesting to see where things go now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say about Sam Kain is that he's coming
Speaker 3: for plenty of criticism, but he has always fronted up
Speaker 3: post match after the World Cup Final. I mean, there
Speaker 3: was the criticism of the Chiefs last year which has
Speaker 3: been explained away, but by and large, Sam Kaine has
Speaker 3: fronted up when things have not been going well on
Speaker 3: the All Blacks jersey, which has been a semi regular
Speaker 3: occurrence in recent years. He's been one of the public
Speaker 3: faces of that team and he's always fronted to media
Speaker 3: and answered some questions. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another thing I like about Cain is that if you
Speaker 2: think about All Blacks captains in recent times, they're very
Speaker 2: good at saying nothing and actually doing that on purpose
Speaker 2: to a degree. I know the All Blacks Captains run
Speaker 2: is set with a stopwatch, but Cain, no matter what
Speaker 2: the circumstances were, you always felt like he listened to
Speaker 2: the question and did his best to genuinely answer it.
Speaker 4: And that was through some very dark times.
Speaker 2: And from our side of the fence, I always respected that.
Speaker 3: Right, Let's move on to some awards for the Rugby
Speaker 3: Championship that we've carved out.
Speaker 4: Drum roll.
Speaker 3: The best All Blacks performer of the Rugby Championship.
Speaker 2: Look, it's hard to go past the final of the year,
Speaker 2: isn't it. Wallace a Titi playing in outer position largely.
Speaker 2: He's not accustomed to blindside flanker and he will be,
Speaker 2: in my view, the All Blacks long term number eight.
Speaker 2: I think we will see a shift at some point there.
Speaker 2: But for a young guy to come in and we've
Speaker 2: seen this with others in South Africa, but thrusting to
Speaker 2: start because of injury and he hasn't been perfect, missed
Speaker 2: the odd tackle here and there, but his relentless ball carrying,
Speaker 2: his range of skill at quick feed, at the line
Speaker 2: offloading line out ability, you know, line out steels at
Speaker 2: the weekends, his confidence to demand the ball.
Speaker 4: He's been exceptional. There's been others.
Speaker 2: Caleb Clark I think is really impressed so yellow cards
Speaker 2: aside Will Jordan's I think claimed that the fullback position
Speaker 2: for now, of course is Ram has been good, but
Speaker 2: Wallace a tt absolute standout.
Speaker 3: I'm going to go with two pou Vi for the
Speaker 3: best all blacks performing the Rugby Championship. I think back
Speaker 3: to the start of the Rugby Championship, Scott Barrett was injured,
Speaker 3: Patrick two pilot was injured. Two po five thrust into
Speaker 3: being a starting lock, and not only that, but he
Speaker 3: was calling the line outs for both of those Asian
Speaker 3: Tina games. I thought he grew immensely through that period
Speaker 3: of time. Started he started the last six seven tests
Speaker 3: in a row. Now every test in the Rugby Championship
Speaker 3: and his come into his own and looks like he
Speaker 3: might have nailed on that other lock spot starting at
Speaker 3: least for the moment beside Scott Barrett. When at the
Speaker 3: start of the year Patrick twy PILOTU appeared set for that.
Speaker 3: Patrick twop a loto gets injured, Two po Vi comes in.
Speaker 3: He's doing outstanding job I think in the second row
Speaker 3: carrying very hard across the park as well grade line
Speaker 3: out option.
Speaker 2: I'm giving it to two per h totally agree. The
Speaker 2: other one for me is to Mighty Williams. I think
Speaker 2: he would two starts in South Africa when Ethan the
Speaker 2: group was injured. For me, he has surpassed the group
Speaker 2: and that might be a wee bit unfair because the
Speaker 2: group's coming back from injury, maybe still finding his feet.
Speaker 2: But Tomighty just offers so much more around the field
Speaker 2: and he proved him himself from a scrummaging perspective, but
Speaker 2: ball carrying, defensively, mobility, he offers a lot more. But
Speaker 2: it is an interesting dynamic that because then the group's
Speaker 2: not really a prospect you bring off the bench to
Speaker 2: Mighty does that role very well, so it's interesting to
Speaker 2: see where that goes.
Speaker 3: All right, So the biggest upset in the Rugby Championship
Speaker 3: Plumas and Wellington.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't think anyone really rarely saw that coming
Speaker 2: and it probably speaks to then shift that we need
Speaker 2: to have with the Pumas about where they are at.
Speaker 2: You know, they beat the Springboks in South Africa, they
Speaker 2: should have beaten the Wallabies twice. They handed them their
Speaker 2: worst defeat in history and that second match, I think
Speaker 2: they are rarely starting to build something under Felipe Contapomei.
Speaker 2: I still don't think they'll should be losing to them
Speaker 2: at home, but they demanded a lot more respect, So
Speaker 2: for me, that was a shock result.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Biggest uposite for me would probably be Australia beating Argentina.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, actually it would be Argentina beating South Africa. Yes,
Speaker 3: they rested a couple of players, but it was a
Speaker 3: very good performance from Argentina. Unfortunately couldn't back it up
Speaker 3: in the Rugby Championship decider on the weekend in South Africa.
Speaker 3: But they are clearly growing. I like what Felippe Kontopomi's
Speaker 3: doing with that team, and you know that maybell build
Speaker 3: ahead of the twenty twenty seven Rugby World Cup. Worst
Speaker 3: moment out of the Rugby Championship look best moment for me.
Speaker 3: I've got to give it to you. The way that
Speaker 3: South Africa played, You've got to give just as an
Speaker 3: overall picture coming out of World Cup is always tricky,
Speaker 3: but I think they improved on what they put on
Speaker 3: the Paddock last year. So for me, if I had
Speaker 3: to narrow it down to a specific moment, probably the
Speaker 3: South African comeback and at Alice Park that showed grit,
Speaker 3: that showed termination. Didn't like it as a New Zealander.
Speaker 3: But credit to South Africa because the Rugby Championship changes
Speaker 3: big time on the basis that last ten minutes in
Speaker 3: that Test match and all of a sudden South afri
Speaker 3: could go through and whin the Rugby Championship. If they don't,
Speaker 3: they slipped to a loss to the All Blacks. Very
Speaker 3: very changeable sort of tournament from that point onwards. So
Speaker 3: best moment goes to South Africa. Worst moment don't really
Speaker 3: have one. Probably if I had to look holistically, probably
Speaker 3: that Australian collapse in La Plaza from just a sense
Speaker 3: of what a hell is Australian rugby doing.
Speaker 2: My best moment is the Park Test, as you'd a test,
Speaker 2: just a magic occasion. Obviously watching from a farm myself
Speaker 2: this time, but I think there's something special about that
Speaker 2: ground that evokes just brilliant test matches every time, the vibe,
Speaker 2: the history of the legacy, everything that comes with it.
Speaker 2: The All Blacks up by ten points and then they
Speaker 2: couldn't hold on. Just a brilliant adversement for world rugby
Speaker 2: and the worst moments. I'm going to go with a
Speaker 2: half full Caketon for the All Blacks against the Pumas.
Speaker 2: That's a really bad look for the All Blacks for Wellington.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure we've touched on different reasoning for that,
Speaker 2: whether the Puma's are on a lure where there's a
Speaker 2: bit of apathy there. But last weekend it was sold
Speaker 2: out for the Wallabies.
Speaker 3: It was and it was a great atmosphere, amazing waterfront
Speaker 3: on the weekend. Part of me thinks that there might
Speaker 3: have been some sort of joint family trips where some
Speaker 3: members of the family went off to the rugby on
Speaker 3: the Saturday night and some members went to the World
Speaker 3: of Wearable Arts and made a weekend out of it
Speaker 3: with the family, and that contributed to a real sense
Speaker 3: of occasion around Wellington that things are actually happening in
Speaker 3: the city. A lot of All Blacks, Wallaby's jerseys around
Speaker 3: and families around on the weekend. It was a real
Speaker 3: sense of occasion for a Test match, which you don't
Speaker 3: often find, maybe outside of Dunedin, Hamilton and New Zealand.
Speaker 3: Some of the biggest cities. You just don't get that,
Speaker 3: but you did on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Yes, Sam Caine, noting it was the best he'd seen
Speaker 2: Wellington and he played a number of test matches there
Speaker 2: and it was really heartening to see locals come up
Speaker 2: and see you and say, oh, are you in the
Speaker 2: world of wearable arts? Because it's really admiring your outfits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was that Wellington Lines Jersey. You gave me
Speaker 3: right beat to Itale, What have you got for us live? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've gone back and forth on this one, but
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with your disgust when I gave
Speaker 2: you a wee bloody Mary and the it was nice
Speaker 2: to you to take me on one of the clubs.
Speaker 2: I don't have a corded lounge membership, so Elliott took
Speaker 2: me along graciously and I've got him a blame Mary.
Speaker 2: After a couple of spruce and martinis with Oli Ritchie
Speaker 2: and the disgust on your face, Sally, I don't think
Speaker 2: I'll ever forget that, so I had to drink it myself.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, tomato is for saucers, not for juice, and every
Speaker 3: time Lingam Napier gets one of them. It disgusts me quite.
Speaker 4: Frankly, still looking for a sponsorship.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you can go and do your own podcast
Speaker 3: if you're going to do that. bestI Itali. Actually that
Speaker 3: might be my best one as well, because I just
Speaker 3: didn't have to drink tomato juice. It was a great
Speaker 3: couple of weeks though in Sydney and Wellington enjoyed we
Speaker 3: spot of at.
Speaker 4: Cujie Shout out to the Cujie Pavilion.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a good good wie spot. All right,
Speaker 3: serious matters grade the Rugby Championship for the All Blacks.
Speaker 2: I've gone back and forth on this one, as you
Speaker 2: know earlier. I'm a very harsh marker. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: with a C plus, which I feel is quite generous,
Speaker 2: and that's on the back of what happened at the weekend.
Speaker 2: I think we've seen enough from this All Black team
Speaker 2: to suggest.
Speaker 4: That they're there, that they are close ish.
Speaker 2: But if you step back three and three, you lose
Speaker 2: the Rugby Championship title for the first time since twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: You lose the Freedom Cup for the first time I
Speaker 2: think it was in fifteen years. You know, there's pittures
Speaker 2: going around the Springboks fully deserving, but they're on their
Speaker 2: team bus, look like they're having rum and coke, maybe
Speaker 2: some clippies branding drinking out of the Rugby Championship title,
Speaker 2: you know those a lot of those players have. That's
Speaker 2: the first time they've they've won that title. So I
Speaker 2: think you could say on balance it was a failure
Speaker 2: that the Rugby Championship from an All Black perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you could rugby Championship when we ran
Speaker 3: in a couple of years. It's going to be dismandled.
Speaker 3: Don't worry about it.
Speaker 2: And look two years ago the All Blacks went one
Speaker 2: on one in South Africa. So I think the Springbok
Speaker 2: team is better. But I think I think we are
Speaker 2: right to demand excellence from this All Black team, as
Speaker 2: they do from themselves. We're right to demand more and
Speaker 2: it was it was just too inconsistent highs and lows, collapses,
Speaker 2: second half fades, discipline issues, So that gray would have
Speaker 2: been a lot worse had it not been for the weekend.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was asked by Brian Kelly a similar question
Speaker 3: and I gave six out of ten six and a
Speaker 3: half out of ten for them in terms of a
Speaker 3: numerical number for the Rugby Championship. Promising signs, but a
Speaker 3: lot of improvement required.
Speaker 2: It's going to be a very very tough Northern tour.
Speaker 2: And so what the All Blacks are? Six wins, three losses.
Speaker 2: So it's very delicately poised, isn't it?
Speaker 3: It is indeed right, let's take a break. We'll come
Speaker 3: back with some of the key points around that Northern
Speaker 3: touring selections after this year on Rugby Directs.
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Speaker 3: elevating you and your business to a high level Final
Speaker 3: four time. Liam sam Kine, t J Purnara Should they
Speaker 3: go on the end of year to a yes or no.
Speaker 2: I'm on the fence about sam Kine, but TJ Piternara
Speaker 2: I would say no. Cam Royguard is making his comeback
Speaker 2: with County's. Monaco has missed all this year through a
Speaker 2: torn patella. But and so there's a there's an element
Speaker 2: of needing to protect him. A Weber and not throw
Speaker 2: him and too soon. But he is an exceptional prospect
Speaker 2: and my top three half backs in New Zealand are Courts.
Speaker 4: Rogard and Noah Hotham.
Speaker 2: So I would have TJ Petenarra with the All Blacks
Speaker 2: fifteen and with Sam Kin. I don't mind him being
Speaker 2: in the squad, but I want to see the All
Speaker 2: Blacks evolve and so I think you could justify having
Speaker 2: his leadership presence there. But I think it's time to
Speaker 2: move on from him being a starter. And I think
Speaker 2: we've seen while the game's up North will be different.
Speaker 2: I think we saw the Wallabies target him at times
Speaker 2: in open field. He's a great defender in the close quarters,
Speaker 2: but he can be exposed in open field and I
Speaker 2: think we saw that from the Wallabies. So I want
Speaker 2: to see I want to see Ardie go to seven.
Speaker 2: I want to see Wallace at eight. I don't know
Speaker 2: why we're waiting to do that. I think Kine could
Speaker 2: potentially be on the bench, but I want to see
Speaker 2: some evolution there well.
Speaker 3: As we discussed last week, I think you've got to
Speaker 3: view each test and isolation and snowpoint looking twenty five
Speaker 3: and beyond now because you're playing in twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: and sam Kin for me, yes, didn't have a great
Speaker 3: game at the weekend, but I think we're only a
Speaker 3: year or move from probably the best game of his
Speaker 3: Test career against Island in the quarter final. If he
Speaker 3: can put out performances like that again in the closing
Speaker 3: stages of Test one hundred and one, two, three, four,
Speaker 3: whatever of his Test career, I think they're important to
Speaker 3: have in the All Blacks, and then next year you
Speaker 3: look for that open side thinker.
Speaker 2: If you're looking at the composition of the bench, I
Speaker 2: think there's an argument to potentially have Cain in the
Speaker 2: mix on the bench. If you're looking at those closing
Speaker 2: quarters experience, the makeup of it, he could be a
Speaker 2: pretty valuable guy to have there. I just really want
Speaker 2: to see Ardie and Wallace in that dynamic. I know
Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter, you know the in Scott Robertson
Speaker 2: certainly pushing the fact that Luis Ford trio at least
Speaker 2: loose for is a versatile numbers don't matter, but while
Speaker 2: it's off the back of the scrum could be very,
Speaker 2: very damaging. And I think Artie is almost playing like
Speaker 2: a seven now anyway, So I want to see that,
Speaker 2: but I do think Sam has a role to play.
Speaker 2: The question then, is if you do to take Sam Kame,
Speaker 2: what to do Peter Luckeye and the remainder of the
Speaker 2: loose forwards. Because the A's taking thirty six they had
Speaker 2: thirty six in the Rugby Championship squad, there's no room
Speaker 2: to move there. So I'll ask you what do you
Speaker 2: do with Peter Luckeye and do all the All Blacks
Speaker 2: loose forwards that we're in the Rugby Championship go north?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's going to be some horse trading
Speaker 3: between these two squads. And Scott Robertson mentioned as much
Speaker 3: as that there's probably some players that play the Test
Speaker 3: match or go to Japan that won't be with the
Speaker 3: All Blacks when they go to London. They'll be instead
Speaker 3: going to Munster and then playing and playing against Georgia.
Speaker 3: So it won't be sixty five names. It'll probably be
Speaker 3: closer to fifty five to sixty. There'll be a few
Speaker 3: that cross over. Having said that I would select Peter
Speaker 3: Luckeye and the All Black squad as a player that
Speaker 3: the only thing I'll say about Peter Luye is that
Speaker 3: I think in some of his recent NPC games he's
Speaker 3: looking a little tired. He's had a big workload this year.
Speaker 3: And whether he's capable of playing Test rugby this year
Speaker 3: or not, I'm not entirely sure, but I think he
Speaker 3: needs to be around that All Blacks because he seems
Speaker 3: like a real player of the future. So I would
Speaker 3: take Peter Luckeye. I think Sama Penni feen Now might
Speaker 3: be the unlucky player when you look at will the
Speaker 3: tt you know Sanma Penie feen Now has been there
Speaker 3: who could have started up blowing soe Flanka there didn't
Speaker 3: Ethan Blackadder is presumably the next blind Side Flanca, so
Speaker 3: that leaves Santa Pennie feen Now. You know it's the
Speaker 3: third tier blind Side instead. I think you bring him
Speaker 3: out and put Luckeye in and Fena goes with the
Speaker 3: All Blacks fifteen to get some game time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's I'd agree with that because
Speaker 2: the other guy that's really slipped out of favor is
Speaker 2: Dalton Papalin, hasn't he he He was the heir apparent
Speaker 2: to Sam Kine for three years. He started this year
Speaker 2: as Scott Robertson's first choice open side. Then he had
Speaker 2: a thumb injury and South Africa Sam Kine started and
Speaker 2: he hasn't been so since, not even on the bench.
Speaker 2: Luke Jacobson has fulfilled that bench role. So it's if
Speaker 2: you're bringing Luck, I know, and I agree I would
Speaker 2: have him there. I think, get him and now he's
Speaker 2: twenty one year old, likes the tit is the future
Speaker 2: of the All Blacks, loose forwards. Get him and now
Speaker 2: he can play against Italy, you know, potentially against Japan
Speaker 2: might be a bit early. He can bounce between the
Speaker 2: All Blacks and the All Blacks fifteen. But get him
Speaker 2: and get him involved and either Summer Pennie or perhaps
Speaker 2: Dalton rebuild that confidence, get some game time. But I
Speaker 2: agree with you, I think Summer Pennie could be you know,
Speaker 2: go with CLAYT.
Speaker 4: McMillan.
Speaker 2: It's his chiefs coach. Good relationship there, that would make sense.
Speaker 3: A couple of other things that have just come up
Speaker 3: from that tour squad we didn't know. We don't know,
Speaker 3: but I wonder whether the All Blacks were name an
Speaker 3: apprentice apprentice players like they have previously in the past,
Speaker 3: and if there is any apprentice players I would look
Speaker 3: at selecting Fabian Horned not until next year's End of
Speaker 3: View tour, but if you are able to bring him
Speaker 3: along for the five test matches that have come get
Speaker 3: him in the All Blacks environment. He looks like a
Speaker 3: player that is certainly capable of playing All Black s
Speaker 3: rugby when he is eligible at the end of twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five. I would take him as an apprentice player
Speaker 3: on this end of View tour.
Speaker 4: Well, can he play for the All Blacks fifteen?
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think it's a capture team, so maybe
Speaker 3: he could play for that. It's not a captured team
Speaker 3: in Timson national eligibility, so in theory maybe you could
Speaker 3: play for them as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that would be make a lot of
Speaker 2: sense and you could potentially bring him in for a
Speaker 2: few days, groom him, get him into that environment, because he,
Speaker 2: like Lackeye, is the future.
Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: He's got the size, he's got the attitude, and he's
Speaker 2: only going to get better. So he's bolted on for sure.
Speaker 3: Any other players in the NPC that have stood up
Speaker 3: that maybe will get in the All Blacks fifteen, but
Speaker 3: not necessarily that All Black squad.
Speaker 2: Well, let's go through the squad here. Because you've got
Speaker 2: guys like Stephen Peter Fetzer. He will make a return.
Speaker 2: I think off the bench with Taranaki and the round
Speaker 2: fish shield challenge against Tasman. That's assuming Tasman defended against Auckland.
Speaker 2: Correct that that game is on Sunday. So the pressure
Speaker 2: points here are Stephen Peterfetter or Harry Plummer Petifetter agreed
Speaker 2: at Locke, Sam Darry or Josh Lord or Dary has
Speaker 2: to be For me, I think Josh Lord has to
Speaker 2: play all Works fifty. We barely played rugby. Josh Lord.
Speaker 3: Darry has been the option that was used when three
Speaker 3: Perot two was injured. So for me, Josh Lola plays
Speaker 3: all Nex fifteen.
Speaker 2: It's interesting, well, I think test rugby ready now in
Speaker 2: terms of size and physicality, I think Josh Lord. But
Speaker 2: whether yeah he's had enough game time this year probably not.
Speaker 2: So I think that's a very fifty to fifty call.
Speaker 2: And those are the main pressure that we talked about.
Speaker 2: The loose forwards, I think whether you take six or
Speaker 2: seven props, and then in the side backs, I really
Speaker 2: want to see ammaning nar Hour back in the squad.
Speaker 2: But I don't know whether they would look to bring
Speaker 2: him back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think he'll probably should be in
Speaker 3: the mix. He's played a very good NPC. I'd like
Speaker 3: to see Josh Jakn going that All Blacks fifteen tour.
Speaker 3: For me, he seems like a play with game time
Speaker 3: that could be a real potential All Black starter at
Speaker 3: ten down the track, and you only learned that by
Speaker 3: playing quality opponents. I would like to see Josh Jacon
Speaker 3: get a go. And that's All Blacks MACS topic number
Speaker 3: two leading on from the tens. Has Boden Barrett done
Speaker 3: enough to retain the All Blacks ten dusy for the
Speaker 3: big games on the end of year tour? From what
Speaker 3: you saw on Saturday night.
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, yes, it wasn't a spectacular performance
Speaker 2: from Bone, but he didn't need to be. And look
Speaker 2: there was his first test at number ten and two
Speaker 2: years and what he did he did largely very well.
Speaker 2: I think he mistouched for one penalty, which Dylan Peach
Speaker 2: did really well to keep that in. He missed won penalty,
Speaker 2: so I think he kicked four from five. He had
Speaker 2: a hand in two of the All Blacks first three
Speaker 2: first half tries. It brought a sense of calm I
Speaker 2: think for the All Blacks. And also I thought Damien
Speaker 2: McKenzie was good off the bench allow freed him up
Speaker 2: to play his natural game, to flit around. He set
Speaker 2: up Caleb Clark for his second try. So I thought
Speaker 2: that dynamic worked really well. But it is a very
Speaker 2: delicate situation for Scott. Robertson invested heavily and Damien McKenzie
Speaker 2: through the first eight tests of this year. Then he
Speaker 2: gave Boden one starts. But I don't think it was
Speaker 2: a coincidence that there was a bit more calm at
Speaker 2: the back end of that match.
Speaker 3: It felt a lot more structured the All Blacks attack,
Speaker 3: I thought, And for me, I think he starts against England.
Speaker 3: I think he's certainly capable of driving that team around
Speaker 3: the park. It just felt as though there was a
Speaker 3: lot more a to b and that game plan of
Speaker 3: what Bonon Baritt was dry, whereas Damian McKenzie can be
Speaker 3: a little bit scartery and game management still work on
Speaker 3: for him, and I felt there was more of that
Speaker 3: from Boden.
Speaker 2: The one thing I'd say is I wouldn't I think
Speaker 2: the All Blacks will make subtle tweaks between England's, Ireland
Speaker 2: and France. I think there's fifteen days or something between
Speaker 2: those three tests, so you're not going to be able
Speaker 2: to roll out the same starting fifteen. They are going
Speaker 2: to try and put out their best team obviously to
Speaker 2: win those matches, but players will be very fatigued across
Speaker 2: that stretch, so there will be the old subtle tweaks
Speaker 2: and I wouldn't be surprised to see maybe Bowden start two.
Speaker 3: McKenzie one Media will be as well, and Writers goes
Speaker 3: out top number three. The ANZAC Test, which is now
Speaker 3: gaining one momentum. I see that Mark Robinson has said
Speaker 3: that they're provisionally on board with this idea and some
Speaker 3: quotes with the Sydney Morning Herald is to play an
Speaker 3: Anzac Day Test in twenty twenty six onwards, incorporating a
Speaker 3: super round around it. As part of a super rounds.
Speaker 3: You might have super rugby going on that whole weekend
Speaker 3: and a Test match is part of it. And sounds
Speaker 3: like that we potentially three tests against the Strataga once
Speaker 3: again for a blitter's low. Now this is seemingly to
Speaker 3: plicate them with the rugby's greatest rivalry to it poised
Speaker 3: to be announced from twenty twenty six, between the All
Speaker 3: Blacks and South Africa. Liam Good idea about idea.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a as you say, it's a trade off,
Speaker 2: that's what it is. It's a dangling of the carra
Speaker 2: It's a business negotiation to keep Ossie on side and
Speaker 2: so New Zealand had to throw them a bone. And
Speaker 2: that's what the Sanzac Test is. The issue is you
Speaker 2: are shitting all over Super rugby again because it's not
Speaker 2: just one week. Let's just say it plays out like
Speaker 2: this that the Inzact Test takes place around Anzac Day.
Speaker 2: It's the middle, it's basically the middle of the Super
Speaker 2: rugby and it's not just going to that competition because
Speaker 2: you take all the Wallabies and All Blacks out, it's
Speaker 2: not just one week. It'll be you know, there'll be
Speaker 2: wider ramifications, it might be injuries. You're looking at potential
Speaker 2: two week window. It will affect that competition. And this
Speaker 2: is a time when Super rugby's already a state of flux,
Speaker 2: going back to eleven teams. You've got two draws, two
Speaker 2: buyers this year, starting earlier, it's going longer. You know,
Speaker 2: so there's already frustrations around it. It's not if you
Speaker 2: talk to Super Rugby coaches they don't want the SANSC Test.
Speaker 3: Well, there are ways you can get around it by
Speaker 3: not getting around it necessarily, but you could have a
Speaker 3: whole competition by in the week before it, and so
Speaker 3: there are no games, you're not missing the Super Rugby players.
Speaker 4: But then it does.
Speaker 2: Hold the momentum of Super Rugby though, then you're going, then,
Speaker 2: how does it affect the July window, like there's already
Speaker 2: a very well, yeah, but they've got they got the
Speaker 2: Nation's Championship coming in as well next year. They've got
Speaker 2: two buyers per team and starting in on Valentine's Day
Speaker 2: for Super Rugby. So there are ways I think you
Speaker 2: can change things around with the draw and give teams
Speaker 2: a break. I'm not sure I get why they're doing it.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot of cash involve that, whether
Speaker 2: it's the Western Australian government or whoever is going to
Speaker 2: help out and sort of line the coffers a little bit.
Speaker 2: I'm not sold on the idea necessarily. I don't need
Speaker 2: I don't think we need a third Test against Australia
Speaker 2: they haven't proven that they're worthy of a third test
Speaker 2: against the All Blacks, so for me, the jury is
Speaker 2: still out on this idea. What it will do, though,
Speaker 2: is help Rugby Australia in their broadcast negotiations because they
Speaker 2: can go to Channel nine and stand and whoever else
Speaker 2: is in the mix and go, look, we've got a
Speaker 2: third bled Aslow Cup Test and it's going to be
Speaker 2: around a super Round and that'll probably increase the amount
Speaker 2: of money they can.
Speaker 4: Get, oh massively.
Speaker 2: The All Blacks are Australia's biggest straw card, that's no secret,
Speaker 2: and that's why they want three tests. That's why they
Speaker 2: want a new concept to throw into the mix. I
Speaker 2: think the ends that concept works, it will be you know,
Speaker 2: having Test Rugby earlier in the year. Test Rugby is
Speaker 2: Rugby's pinnacle, right, That's where all the eyeballs come, So
Speaker 2: it will work. It's just a flow on effect that
Speaker 2: that has on Super Rugby at a time when that
Speaker 2: competition is still trying to re establish itself, got a
Speaker 2: new finals format, all these things, and then you're throwing
Speaker 2: something else in the mix.
Speaker 3: Indeed, topic number four is there a crusader's bias in
Speaker 3: the All Blacks. Chaffy Hackey called in last week, is
Speaker 3: injury cover for some of the All Blacks players, liam
Speaker 3: usaid used to this question, so you can floor as
Speaker 3: yours all.
Speaker 2: Right, here we go, the gloves are off, elout. It's
Speaker 2: time to really get down and dirty. Look, I'm just
Speaker 2: going to name a few players for you. We'll start
Speaker 2: off easy. We'll go look Severy Reese on the on
Speaker 2: the right wing. I think he has been favored quite
Speaker 2: quite heavily this year at times when he hasn't played well.
Speaker 2: George Bell, Ricky Ricky Telly outplayed him thoroughly Super Rugby,
Speaker 2: and I know they picking for the future on age,
Speaker 2: but George Bell's throwing was awful this year. George Bauer,
Speaker 2: great guy. Xavier new Meer had a superb Super Rugby season,
Speaker 2: got injured at untimely manor, and then we had Scheffi Hackey.
Speaker 2: And I think Shaeff Hacke is a talent, but he
Speaker 2: has yet to prove himself and there are an infinite
Speaker 2: number of wing fullbacks playing better than him right now.
Speaker 2: Sean Stevenson, Jacob rut Of, ki Vuki Nipkins and a
Speaker 2: number of others. Whether he's going to play or not.
Speaker 2: I think it's relevant. I think it's the optics. I
Speaker 2: think it's the message of sending to players about the
Speaker 2: next guy in line. So I think the Schefficky one
Speaker 2: was the straw that broke the camel's back. And I
Speaker 2: think there is an unconscious crusader's bias here.
Speaker 3: Well, the message clearly to those players is get better,
Speaker 3: get to hear Schaffee Harckey's playing.
Speaker 2: I know you just turned this to wye me up here,
Speaker 2: and you do. You're on the cusp of me storming
Speaker 2: out of the studio. Turn a Matthew Ridge. You cannot
Speaker 2: sit there with a straight face and tell me that
Speaker 2: you think that Shaefi Hacky is deserving of his place.
Speaker 3: But he wasn't called into the backs. He's called in
Speaker 3: his injury cut.
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter answer the question.
Speaker 2: Answer the question, is he deserving as being the next
Speaker 2: man in line for selection?
Speaker 3: Well, we haven't got a full explanation as to why
Speaker 3: he was called in and whether it was decided to
Speaker 3: keep in morning that I worked with his NBC team
Speaker 3: because they were playing on the Saturday with that didn't
Speaker 3: get runway to Vicky Nepkins in because they had a
Speaker 3: storm week last week and therefore had two games. Sewan
Speaker 3: Stevenson was involved in midweek game as well storm week.
Speaker 2: So whether it's Aunt Sullivan like there's so many other
Speaker 2: fullbacks and he's on a rugby wings, yeah.
Speaker 3: Well shaefe. He can play midfield as well and there
Speaker 3: are a few players like that.
Speaker 2: He had a great game for Canbury on the weekend
Speaker 2: as well when he went back his opposite squad.
Speaker 3: If he hadn't be pulled out of that squad, they
Speaker 3: might have won, might have been able to turn around.
Speaker 3: That's a forty six point eficits.
Speaker 4: It's good we're in agreement there as a crusader's bias.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think it's a good thing. You think
Speaker 3: it's a bad thing. Right Before we go, some interesting
Speaker 3: late breaking news from the world of Johnny Sexton and
Speaker 3: his book release. He's revealed what prompted the exchange with
Speaker 3: Rico Youwanni after the World Cup quarterfinal last year in Paris.
Speaker 3: So basically short stories. As Wayne Barnes blows full time,
Speaker 3: Rico Yuanni says, don't miss your flight tomorrow, enjoy your retirement.
Speaker 3: You beep fill in the gap there, and then after
Speaker 3: that Sexton walks after Yuanni and calls them a fake
Speaker 3: humble you know what. So Johnny Sexton's called into line
Speaker 3: the no dickheads policy in the All Black and various things,
Speaker 3: but revealed you know what exactly went on there. Also
Speaker 3: questioned the penalty that seeing Whitelocke managed to get as
Speaker 3: well over Ronan Calliha as well. So there are a
Speaker 3: few things keeping Johnny Sexton up at night, and he's
Speaker 3: put them into his book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, tough to see.
Speaker 2: Look, it's great to see an autobiography actually say something
Speaker 2: normally dollars as anything. But look, get over it, Johnny
Speaker 2: absolute winge there. Look, maybe you can say Rico shouldn't
Speaker 2: have been so harsh, but I'm in the school of
Speaker 2: thought that if you're going to give it, you've got
Speaker 2: to be able to take it. Peter o'many and Johnny
Speaker 2: Sexton were absolutely giving it to you all Blacks when
Speaker 2: they beat them in Wellington, and they had every right
Speaker 2: to that they won. They can celebrate as they choose to,
Speaker 2: you know. He also mentions the fact that Artie Severe,
Speaker 2: the Barrett brothers and Joe Schmidt were very humble in victory.
Speaker 2: Everyone's difference, but Johnny has got no leg to stand on.
Speaker 2: He's berated players, he's berated referees when he's been playing
Speaker 2: and not and he's still winjin about the decision, like
Speaker 2: get over it, mate.
Speaker 3: It shows the mental fragility that probably showed why they
Speaker 3: didn't win the World Cup quarter final in all.
Speaker 4: Honesty, and that final play is not the only reason
Speaker 4: they lost that game.
Speaker 3: And if you look back at the tape, Artie Savia
Speaker 3: has a moment a few phases prior where there's a
Speaker 3: very legitimate argument that all Blacks could have got the
Speaker 3: penalty there and Wayne Barnes could have blown it up there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think there's a build up of quarter
Speaker 2: final failures steaming within Johnny. And yeah, I saw a
Speaker 2: headline this week about I think I'm pretty sure it
Speaker 2: was someone I don't wanted to fame him here. He
Speaker 2: was talking about how when he kept it goal he
Speaker 2: pictured Ronan O'Gara or something.
Speaker 4: He's got a lot of grudges, I.
Speaker 3: Would say as well that postgame Andy Farrell was very
Speaker 3: complimentary of Bill Blacks from my memories of that media conference,
Speaker 3: and very very complimentary with the way they played, so
Speaker 3: and luck.
Speaker 2: Was Ian Foster and Sam Kaine spoke very highly of
Speaker 2: Johnny sixth and so it was one exchange. I think
Speaker 2: Brodie Rettallick had a bit of a jibe as well.
Speaker 2: But let's not forget Peter Omoni called Sam Cain a
Speaker 2: shit version of Ritchie mccare and I'm of the view
Speaker 2: that you know, what happens on the field stays on
Speaker 2: the field.
Speaker 3: My favorite line from this is the BBC article BBC
Speaker 3: Sport has approached New Zealand Rugby and Rico u ARTI's
Speaker 3: representatives for COVID. What do they expect them to COVID? Yes,
Speaker 3: I said that.
Speaker 4: I'm sure Rico is waiting by the phone, yeah to
Speaker 4: pick up.
Speaker 3: Happy to talk to the BBC. Right, that'll do us
Speaker 3: for another week on Rugby torect. We may be back
Speaker 3: next week, maybe not. Bill Back's got the squad out
Speaker 3: on October seventh, but we're into a wrist and rotation
Speaker 3: policy over the next couple of weeks, so we'll see.
Speaker 3: We'll be back at some point in the next couple
Speaker 3: of weeks.
Speaker 4: Put your feet up and enjoy Bloody Maria.
Speaker 3: That's enough. Rugby Direct with Xus Solutions elevating you and
Speaker 3: your business to a higher level of thanks to Last
Speaker 3: and Bars English as well. See you next month.
Speaker 4: Go the lines.
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