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Speaker 1: Time for politics Wednesday, and Ginny Anderson's with us along

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Speaker 1: with Mark Mitchell. A very good morning to both of you.

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Speaker 1: Moning Jenny, did you know you would know because of

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Speaker 1: both of your jobs. But this this thousand dollars thing, Mark,

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Speaker 1: when you go make a citizen's arrest or, it's got

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Speaker 1: to be after nine o'clock or before six o'clock in

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Speaker 1: the morning. Who invented that?

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Speaker 2: Is that part of the Is that part of Paul's announcement?

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Speaker 3: No, that's the law now, Mark, Well.

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Speaker 2: To be honest with you, I'm going to wait until

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Speaker 2: Paul makes's announcement after and I'm quite excited about some

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Speaker 2: of the things that we're doing around retail crime. But

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Speaker 2: that law that you, just, to be honest, i'd have

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Speaker 2: to go away and have a look at it.

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Speaker 1: See, I don't think anyone knows that Lord what you did, Jenny. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: have you done a few arrests, a few citizens arresting

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Speaker 1: you in your life? Jenny, I'd back you on a

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Speaker 1: after a hard day to Select committee and you wandering

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Speaker 1: through the hut wall and you're going that bastard's got

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Speaker 1: a television. I'm taking them out.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think I'm a similar height to you, Mark,

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Speaker 3: so much chances of actually successfully doing something would be low.

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Speaker 1: Go for the ankles, ankle tap, a little ankle tap.

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Speaker 1: So without getting ahead of it, Mark, because I know

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Speaker 1: you're under instruction not to talk about it. But what

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Speaker 1: stops the sisters and arrest and the law and rules

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Speaker 1: and regulations around it getting out of control?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you do have to have some pretty

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Speaker 2: strict rules and guidelines around it. And I don't want

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Speaker 2: to get ahead of Paul's announcement this afternoon. That will

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Speaker 2: be much clearer when he makes his announcement. But I

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Speaker 2: do know one thing that we have to do something

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Speaker 2: about making sure that retailers, their employers, and their customers

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Speaker 2: are safe. And although we're seen that we are seeing

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Speaker 2: a really positive reduction and violent retail crime, we know

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Speaker 2: that we still have a lot more to do. We

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Speaker 2: know that we want to get on top of the

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Speaker 2: nonviolent retail crime as well, because have you seen that continues.

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Speaker 2: Although it's slowing down, that continues to tick up, and

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Speaker 2: we want to get on top of that. But you know, overall,

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Speaker 2: I'm very very pleased to the direction that we're heading

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Speaker 2: as a country. We knew that we were in big

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Speaker 2: trouble under the previous government. I want to acknowledge the police.

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Speaker 2: They are doing an outstanding job. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: I just want to acknowledge our corrections officers too, because

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Speaker 2: we have it ad an uptick in people coming into

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Speaker 2: our prisons and they are doing an outstanding job. They

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Speaker 2: don't get recognized much because they're behind the wire, but

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Speaker 2: there's tens of thousands of positive actions that happen every

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Speaker 2: day in our correction system.

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Speaker 1: As long as the writing instructions Ginny are fair or

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Speaker 1: reasonable in terms of what a security guard and a

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Speaker 1: supermarket can do by way of citizens arrest, Are you

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Speaker 1: broadly in favor of it.

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Speaker 3: Well, I understand it's people, so it's not just security

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Speaker 3: guards that would be someone.

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Speaker 1: But that's going to be the outworking of it, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to arrest anybody. It'll be

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Speaker 1: a security guard and a supermarket are more Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You might not, but what are they One of the

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Speaker 3: concerns of those big retailers who want people to buy

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Speaker 3: things in the shop is that they will see incidents

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Speaker 3: in the store. So if someone does attempt to steal something,

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Speaker 3: you have another another store member you're tackling them or

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Speaker 3: trying to restrain them or hold them down, and that's

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Speaker 3: where things can get dangerous.

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Speaker 1: I reckon the first video you see of somebody being

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Speaker 1: sat on at Harvey Norman, people are going going to

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Speaker 1: go good job and about a freaking time.

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Speaker 3: Well that, yeah, it is good, but there are lots

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Speaker 3: of instances and we've seen those in New Zealand where

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Speaker 3: people have been in jed or lost their life because

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Speaker 3: there's a weapon involved. And so that's the concern. And

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Speaker 3: I'm actually really surprised Marxi, Yes, because you ask any

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Speaker 3: police officer whether it's a good idea for people to

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Speaker 3: take law into their own hands, and they will always

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Speaker 3: say that it ends in disaster. And so it's a

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Speaker 3: strong message police have always given that it's not safe

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Speaker 3: for our communities for people to do. Would you think

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Speaker 3: it will be very interesting to see how this actually

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Speaker 3: pans out in reality and having some big risks on

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Speaker 3: the side of the government.

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Speaker 2: Well, they haven't supported anything we've done in terms of

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Speaker 2: public safety since we come into government. We see no, no, you,

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Speaker 2: Labor hasn't supported anything.

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Speaker 3: I think the police will support that smart against and.

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Speaker 2: By the way, and by the way, Mike, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: but call me old fashioned shopkeepers that are having people

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Speaker 2: go and try to put hammers through the heads, and

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Speaker 2: I was at the bedside of one just recently. Have

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Speaker 2: to make sure the law actually protects him and put

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Speaker 2: some some protection around police.

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Speaker 1: I think you're missing the I think you're on the

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Speaker 1: right side of his crew. Having said that, I think

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Speaker 1: you're on the right side of it, Mark, But I

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Speaker 1: do take Jinny's point. The first one that goes wrong

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Speaker 1: and the chances are as something will because a few

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Speaker 1: of these are on meth heads and they got nothing

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Speaker 1: to lose, and it's going to get ugly. Really, the

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Speaker 1: politics of that, you're going to be peddling fairly hard,

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Speaker 1: i'd suggest.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, I can tell you now that already shopkeepers

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Speaker 2: that have stepped forward, and that example that I was

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Speaker 2: using was the son step forward to defend his his

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Speaker 2: father who was on the ground and having a hammer

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Speaker 2: put through his head. And I'm sorry, but the police

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Speaker 2: can't be everywhere all the time, and we want to

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Speaker 2: be very clear and make sure that those people and

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Speaker 2: customers are protected and have the right to be able

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Speaker 2: to actually defend their property and themselves without criminalizing themselves,

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Speaker 2: and I think that is just a practical, common sense

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Speaker 2: thing to do and to return some power back to

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Speaker 2: the people that are been victimized.

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Speaker 1: Quick comment before we get to Bailey Jinny. Just in general,

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Speaker 1: we had Erica Stanford yesterday those numbers on teachers that

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Speaker 1: they cocked up. Yet again we had the Rose report

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Speaker 1: last week. In general, from your experience, is the public

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Speaker 1: service holding a government of the day back through an

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Speaker 1: aptitude from experience?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: In general, the experience I've had with those people have

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Speaker 3: reported to me and given me advice have been incredibly

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Speaker 3: effective and have helped resolve some quite big problems that

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Speaker 3: would have cost a lot more if you have gone

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Speaker 3: to a private contractor Do you.

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Speaker 1: Have to micromanage them at times?

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Speaker 3: I've never had to. I've had excellent people working to me,

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Speaker 3: have always done a very good job, and generally jocobus Okay,

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Speaker 3: what about you, mate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, generally the very good. But we don't take all

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Speaker 2: their advice. That's what we've been voted in. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: we have things that we want to achieve and things

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Speaker 2: that we want to do, and some of the advice

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Speaker 2: I taken. Other stuff I'm very clear about what I

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Speaker 2: want to achieve, and that's what we do.

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Speaker 1: What about your math? So I mean, I know this

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Speaker 1: isn't your area, mark, but they thought they had a

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Speaker 1: thousand more teachers and turns out they got twelve hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty short two and a half thousand wrong. But

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with that level of incompetence, how do

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Speaker 1: you handle it? Because it comes back you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think I listened to that interview of the

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Speaker 2: Erica and she's very clear about the fact that her

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Speaker 2: own gut feeling was telling her that she couldn't rely

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Speaker 2: on the data and went back and challenged it and

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Speaker 2: thankfully sort of has got ahead of the curved to

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Speaker 2: some extent. But you know, that's our job. Our job

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Speaker 2: is just sit there and have people, have a long

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Speaker 2: line of officials come through and tell us what they

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Speaker 2: think we should be doing. We're in government because we

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Speaker 2: want to make changes and we want to implement what

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Speaker 2: our policies are and get on and do that. And

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Speaker 2: that's what we do.

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Speaker 3: Know, the evidence just gets in the way sometimes, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: Having well on, Sorry, any but you might have religiously

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Speaker 2: gone off everything that adviser has told you. We don't well,

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Speaker 2: and if I did that then we probably wouldn't be seen.

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Speaker 2: All the results were seen at the moment in relation

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Speaker 2: and reduction of violent crime in our country days. We've

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Speaker 2: got to keep that going.

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Speaker 3: You've got four papers, one including when you signed out

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Speaker 3: saying that gangs were using gun rangers to practice their skills.

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Speaker 2: We're not.

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Speaker 3: You still didn't and you still didn't know about it,

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Speaker 3: so you don't read you.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's well, that's that's complete nonsense.

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Speaker 1: It's not true effect having such Let's get back.

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Speaker 2: Let's get back. But I will say this, Mike, is

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Speaker 2: it is it? Labor didn't support getting legislation, but it's

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Speaker 2: proven to be very effective.

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Speaker 1: Well, if I have time, I'm going to come back

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Speaker 1: to chambers. I want a question on that. But Ginny,

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Speaker 1: just quickly on Bailey, Uh, do you run the risk

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Speaker 1: of in the it's the media's fault as well. You

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Speaker 1: know how long it took you had the weekend and

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Speaker 1: we didn't say anything and his hand was on his

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Speaker 1: arm and he had to go and everyone get sacked.

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Speaker 1: Do we not send the message overall the people coming

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Speaker 1: from outside into politics, So that's the sort of treatment

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Speaker 1: they get, and it's not excusing what Bailey did. But

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Speaker 1: that's the sort of treatment they get. Who can be

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Speaker 1: bothered with it? It sounds pathetic?

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Speaker 3: Is that's whose? Whose question to me? Well, I tell

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Speaker 3: you what did sound terrible? Was your interview with the

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister use today? And so I think you know

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Speaker 3: it was painful. He was all over the plane.

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Speaker 1: Asking I'm asking about Bailey and Hipkins barking at dogs

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Speaker 1: and cars, and it's just it becomes a sort of

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Speaker 1: a saccothon and I sacked them in two minutes and

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Speaker 1: it took it's like, from the outside to answer your question.

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Speaker 3: I think it would be really helpful if we knew

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Speaker 3: what actually happened.

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Speaker 1: So well, he got the heated discussion.

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Speaker 3: Pushed his arms, did he squeeze it was?

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Speaker 1: If it was.

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Speaker 2: If it did, someone stood.

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Speaker 1: On then fair enough. But there was a heated exchange,

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Speaker 1: someone grabbed someone's arm and the next thing he knows

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Speaker 1: he's out of a career.

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Speaker 3: Well, we don't know that because he won't tell us

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Speaker 3: the details. So if we could make a judgment on

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Speaker 3: the facts, it would be good to know those facts.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, what do you think, Mark, I mean,

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Speaker 2: you've got I want to recognize Andrew and and the

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Speaker 2: fact that he was doing some outstanding there. He obviously

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Speaker 2: felt like he had crossed the line. He's he's a

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Speaker 2: very good local MP and you know him and his

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Speaker 2: family will be really feeling it now, without a doubt.

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Speaker 2: It's these things play out the public and it's not easy.

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Speaker 2: But he obviously stepped forward and took responsibility for him

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Speaker 2: and that was the right thing to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. But having said that, Ginny is right,

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Speaker 1: the fluxing did sound dreadful yesterday. What's his problem? Mark,

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Speaker 1: there's a shot.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're asking the wrong person because you know that

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Speaker 2: I really rate him. Well, look I do too.

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Speaker 1: I mean I like the guy and I want him

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Speaker 1: to do well. And that's not a political statement. I

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Speaker 1: just want anybody to do well to get this country

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Speaker 1: off its knees. But you know, if you heard yesterday,

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on.

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Speaker 2: Well, look I'm a huge supporter of his and I

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Speaker 2: think that no. But but but he's when you look

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Speaker 2: at it, we don't really step back and look at it.

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Speaker 2: It's extraordinary what he's achieved. He's only been in politics.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is a second term. He's the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister of the country, leading us one of the most

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Speaker 2: difficult times that we've ever had economically, and he's a

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Speaker 2: solid he's dependable, he's there every day. He knows what

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Speaker 2: we have to do. He's great for me being a minister.

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Speaker 2: You couldn't ask for a better Prime Minise. He bx

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Speaker 2: me up in everything that I need to do.

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Speaker 3: People aren't buying it people super.

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Speaker 1: Quick, Jenny. The Health Committee, I note, had fifteen thousand

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Speaker 1: written submissions on the gene technology bill. You're on the

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Speaker 1: committee for the treaty. Is this level of submissions unusual?

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Speaker 1: Are we suddenly more active or is it the same

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Speaker 1: people photocopying stuff off and just duplicating everything.

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Speaker 3: There are huge amounts of submissions. They're breaking all records

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Speaker 3: every time. And one of the things that happened is

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Speaker 3: as we have larger umbrella groups that do form submission,

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Speaker 3: so you just had to write your name in a

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Speaker 3: few lines in that generation.

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Speaker 2: Is that useful?

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Speaker 3: Not really, because you're just getting the same thing a lot,

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Speaker 3: so you're wanting a variety of views so you understand

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Speaker 3: the details. So and I think people have this misconception

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Speaker 3: that it's a race, so the most submissions win.

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Speaker 1: The point that's why. That's why I ask the question happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it seems fruitless or pointless to be nice. To see you, guys, Mirk, Mitchell,

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Speaker 1: Ginny Anderson.

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Speaker 3: For more from The Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 3: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio