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Speaker 1: Kyotra. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,

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Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. It's

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Speaker 1: that time of year again where we debate where the

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Speaker 1: New Zealanders should be allowed to let off fireworks fire

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Speaker 1: in emergency. New Zealand is among those opposed, saying they

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Speaker 1: know first hand how dangerous fireworks can be. Last year

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Speaker 1: was the worst year for fireworks related fires since twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: with one hundred and sixty six unwanted blazers. Fireworks sales

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Speaker 1: are restricted to a four day period from November two

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Speaker 1: to fifth each year, but there are growing calls for

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Speaker 1: that to be scrapped entirely. Later we'll chat to the

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Speaker 1: spca's Scientific Officer, Dr Allison Vaughan on how to protect

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Speaker 1: our animals from fireworks. But first on the front page,

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Speaker 1: bire an Emergency. New Zealand Readiness and Recovery National Manager

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Speaker 1: Adrian Nacy is with us. Adrian Fens has made a

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Speaker 1: submission supporting several petitions calling for a ban on the

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Speaker 1: public sale of fireworks. What prompted the agency to support.

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Speaker 2: This Yes, so the use of fireworks to the public

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Speaker 2: odds worth I guess Fire and Emergencies PRINCIPALITYTIVES, which is

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Speaker 2: to keep people, property and the environment safe from the

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Speaker 2: risk of unwanted fire. So we've got a few different

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Speaker 2: things we do to try and keep people safe from fire.

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Speaker 2: And putting further restrictions on the sale of fireworks to

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Speaker 2: the general public would help that, then we would absolutely

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Speaker 2: support it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how significant is the risk of fireworks related fire

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Speaker 1: has been in recent years?

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we get about one hundred and seventy fireworks

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Speaker 2: related callouts each year and these range from small fires

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Speaker 2: that are really easy for us to put out, fruit

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Speaker 2: fires that burned for several days, tying up our resources.

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Speaker 1: Now, do you have any examples of situations that perhaps

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Speaker 1: have gotten a bit out of hand.

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Speaker 3: We've got a couple.

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Speaker 2: We had a significant fire down in Pegasus in North

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Speaker 2: Canterbury on the second of November in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: so that's the day that fireworks went on sale. So

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Speaker 2: fireworks we set off at the beach there and got

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Speaker 2: into the pine plantation and got out of control. So

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Speaker 2: that burned for around two hundred hectares of pine forest

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Speaker 2: and also some native regenerating forests.

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Speaker 3: Of the local community had planted.

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Speaker 2: We had to evacuate the community of wood End in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night, putting people into evacuation centers,

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Speaker 2: evacuating people from the campground, and also a horse stud.

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Speaker 2: That fire took us about five days to put out.

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Speaker 2: We had it out eventually by about the seventh of November.

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Speaker 2: We're our crew could be released from that and at

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Speaker 2: one cost over four hundred thousand dollars for us to

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Speaker 2: deal with. And there's a big kind of what we

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Speaker 2: call a campaign fire. We've also had a couple of

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Speaker 2: pretty significant nights for fireworks incidents. We had a particularly

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Speaker 2: windy and hot years at the end of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: two and in the middle of the night on years

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Speaker 2: at one point we were responding to fifteen fires that

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Speaker 2: I can see by fireworks at the same time, for communities,

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Speaker 2: that's not where they want our crews in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night they want them.

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Speaker 3: They're responding where they need them.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I moved here from Australia. I

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Speaker 1: was and I saw the fireworks being sold on the

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Speaker 1: side of the road around this time of the year.

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Speaker 1: I was just like how and why, because obviously Australia

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Speaker 1: is like just a tinder box everywhere. So in my mind,

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Speaker 1: I think it's insane that there is a public sale

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Speaker 1: of fireworks. Why do you think there still is this

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Speaker 1: in New Zealand? Do you guys just like blowing stuff up?

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Speaker 2: Look, that's that's not for me to really comment. It's

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Speaker 2: like why they're still still being sold. We do see,

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Speaker 2: like at the end of November, where we are, at

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Speaker 2: the end of October, sorry, where we are at the moment.

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Speaker 2: We've already had some really significant fires in the last

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks, obviously not caused by fireworks, but it

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Speaker 2: does show that conditions and parts of the country are

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Speaker 2: right for these fires getting out of control and causing

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Speaker 2: some really significant damage to communities, which is what we're

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Speaker 2: trying to stop.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Do you think everyone who lets off fireworks does in

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Speaker 1: fact check the conditions first?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so, that's not what we see.

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Speaker 2: We see people setting them off when it's hot, dry

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Speaker 2: and windy, which is what we're trying to avoid. We've

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Speaker 2: got a really good website called chickens Right dot m Z.

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Speaker 2: You can go on there and you can get some

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Speaker 2: fire safety tips, not just for fireworks. Fires are looking

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Speaker 2: to light in the outdoors, but you can also check

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Speaker 2: both the fire danger and the fire weather, and you

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Speaker 2: can also look for any bands where you are at

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Speaker 2: that time or coming up in the future.

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Speaker 3: So that's chickens, right, Dot and Z.

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Speaker 2: We really are asking people to cheat the conditions if

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Speaker 2: they are planning to set off fireworks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, does fans actually roster more people on nights, say

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Speaker 1: like guy fawks or New Year's orff something like that

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Speaker 1: for this exact reason.

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Speaker 3: It's a good question.

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Speaker 2: We maintain like a really constant state of readiness to

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Speaker 2: respond to whatever our communities need us for any day,

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Speaker 2: in any hour of the year. So we don't have

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Speaker 2: to roster people on over guy fawks on years. We

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Speaker 2: just respond to what we're required to.

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Speaker 1: So where can't people set off fireworks? Presumably the beach

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Speaker 1: given what happened down in Pegasus.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the beaches.

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Speaker 2: So you do need the land owners permission to set

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Speaker 2: off fireworks, So on your own property, you know that

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Speaker 2: if there's no restriction in place, that's okay. Most of

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Speaker 2: the councils around the country have firework bands in place

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Speaker 2: for public areas like parks, beaches. Obviously, Department of Conservation

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Speaker 2: areas are an absolutely no go for setting off fireworks,

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Speaker 2: but you do need that landowner's permission, and certainly most

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Speaker 2: councils have banned fireworks we see off in public places

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Speaker 2: like parks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess celebrating guy fawks with a barbecue and

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Speaker 1: some firecrackers is a long held tradition for many ki

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Speaker 1: We families. What are some other ways perhaps we could

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Speaker 1: celebrate if a band does come into effect? Do you think?

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Speaker 1: Have you seen so many good ideas from overseas?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some great public displays.

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Speaker 2: I know here in Wellington the Speedway puts on a

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Speaker 2: pretty impressive fireworks display every year, and there's some really

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Speaker 2: great fundraising displays put on as well. So maybe got

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Speaker 2: opportunity to get and then support your community that way

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Speaker 2: and leaving the fireworks enhance the professionals is always our preference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Does fans actually work with councils and stuff on

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Speaker 1: those public fireworks displays to make sure it's all safe?

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Speaker 3: We do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a system that we go through to approve

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Speaker 2: what we call pyrotechnic displays. They're slightly different to your

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Speaker 2: retail fireworks, a bit more vergulan exciting, So we work

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Speaker 2: with the people that set those.

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Speaker 1: Off, sort of like a Metallica concert or something. I

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Speaker 1: assume that there's some pyrotechniques there. Do you consult them

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Speaker 1: as well?

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Speaker 3: We do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we work with them and they often safety regulated,

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Speaker 2: work safe as well.

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Speaker 1: So obviously there's no ban in place yet. But what

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Speaker 1: are the precautions for people that they can ensure that

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Speaker 1: it's all safe and above board at home.

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Speaker 2: Yes, there's some good, basic common sense steps you can take.

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Speaker 2: So the first one is picking where you're going to

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Speaker 2: see your fireworks, So have them in a wide open

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Speaker 2: space away from anything that can catch fire, dry grass

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Speaker 2: trees in your house.

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Speaker 3: Have them pointing towards the sky.

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Speaker 2: I don't point them towards other people or animals or

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Speaker 2: anything that can can set fire. Make sure you've got

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Speaker 2: something to put them out or put fires out if

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Speaker 2: they do a curse. They have a garden hose or

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Speaker 2: a bucket nearby. Keep your kids, your kids or your

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Speaker 2: pets and your animals away. Be a good neighbor, have

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Speaker 2: a chat to your community if you're going to set

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Speaker 2: off fireworks. Some people can find them distressing, and animals

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Speaker 2: that they want to look after the same.

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Speaker 3: Chanty neighbors, and last thing.

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Speaker 2: Make sure they're out before you put them in the bin,

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Speaker 2: So check them in a bucket of water, let them

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Speaker 2: all cool down, then just post them.

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Speaker 1: Awesome. Thanks for joining us, Adrian.

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Speaker 5: All right, Chelsea, Yeah, I mean I think drone shows

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Speaker 5: are safer than fireworks. They're more environmentally friendly and they're

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Speaker 5: also quieter, so you your pets can watch, the vets

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Speaker 5: can watch without PTSD. My partner, Michelle, her husband, actually

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Speaker 5: is a veteran, and you know, she says that the

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Speaker 5: benefits of drones shows are just amazing for our vets,

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Speaker 5: you know, not to mention they're just way safer as

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Speaker 5: you're mentioning, as you're saying now. So I think that that,

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Speaker 5: combined with the fact that you can get the stunning

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Speaker 5: formations in the night sky, is really why you're seeing

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Speaker 5: the uptick in drone shoes.

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Speaker 1: So there are alternatives, and as we heard, drone shows

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Speaker 1: offer a safer, quieter option, and that's good news not

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Speaker 1: just for people, but for animals too. To talk about

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Speaker 1: the impact fireworks have on pets and wildlife, we're joined

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Speaker 1: by spca's Scientific Officer, doctor Allison Vaughan. So, Allison, it'll

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Speaker 1: come as no surprise to anyone that animals aren't huge

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Speaker 1: fans of fireworks, and I guess that would make it

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Speaker 1: a very busy time of year for the SPCA.

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Speaker 4: Hey yeah, Well, we know that from surveys in New

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Speaker 4: Zealand that up to seventy five percent of cats and

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Speaker 4: dogs are frightened of fireworks, and also other animals like horses,

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Speaker 4: can not only be frightened, but often quite often seriously injured.

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Speaker 4: When we think of the likes of that poor horse

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Speaker 4: Remy last year, this can have very serious consequences, so

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Speaker 4: we're definitely not fans of it. Typically we don't see

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Speaker 4: too many animals coming in necessarily beause most people take

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Speaker 4: them to their vets if they're injured. But we do

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Speaker 4: know there are a lot more lost animals because often

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Speaker 4: they panic and run off and it could be really

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Speaker 4: challenging for people to get their animals back home.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Remy the horse last year?

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Speaker 4: So last year, very sadly the Remy, a Thoroughbred horse,

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Speaker 4: became entangled in a fence as a result of panicking

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Speaker 4: due to fireworks and had to be euthanized. And this

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Speaker 4: is something that actually a New Zealand study found that

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Speaker 4: twenty six percent of horse owners reported their animals being

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Speaker 4: injured due to panic caused by fireworks. So it's very

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Speaker 4: serious consequences we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have any data or examples, I suppose

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Speaker 1: in recent years that show how wide spread these incidents are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So, as I said, that was twenty six percent

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Speaker 4: of horse owners who said that their animals had been

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Speaker 4: injured as a result. In terms of animals that are

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Speaker 4: that had collisions and things with fences, we're looking at

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Speaker 4: like thirty five percent. So this is a very common

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Speaker 4: and very predictable but also very avoidable suffering for animals.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just the injuries of course as well.

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Speaker 1: The noise alone can distress animals a lot, but that

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Speaker 1: can make it pretty hard for us to comprehend what

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Speaker 1: they're going through. I can only imagine, you know, them

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Speaker 1: looking up at the sky and thinking that the world's

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Speaker 1: going to cave in on them because they're like, what

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Speaker 1: is this sound? Is there any human experience that's comparable

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Speaker 1: I suppose to what animals might be experienced.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I suppose we do. Know some people are

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Speaker 4: also impacted by fireworks and find it very traumatic. So

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Speaker 4: I think we don't have to reach too far to

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Speaker 4: try and understand what they might be going through. And

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Speaker 4: a big part of the issue is we're often told

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Speaker 4: what it's one night, or it's you know, they're only

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Speaker 4: on sale for four days. The reality is people can

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Speaker 4: stock while fireworks and let them off any day at night,

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Speaker 4: and that makes it so hard for pet owners to

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Speaker 4: keep their animals safe.

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Speaker 1: How can pet owners keep their animals safe?

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Speaker 4: That is such a great question. It's really important that

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Speaker 4: we know while people can let them off at anytime,

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Speaker 4: most people will be letting them off after diark, So

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Speaker 4: make sure you're exercising your dogs earlier than usual, getting

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Speaker 4: them inside the house so safe and secured. Same with

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Speaker 4: your cats. Make sure if they are allowed to go

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Speaker 4: outside in roam, that they're safely contained before the fireworks start.

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Speaker 4: And then there's things you can do in the home

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Speaker 4: to muffle the noise. For example, last year, we collaborated

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Speaker 4: for the first time with ourn Z Concert to put

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Speaker 4: on a concert for animals with soothing music for pets

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Speaker 4: and their owners, and we'll be doing that again this year,

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Speaker 4: and that can help just hide some of them, muffle

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Speaker 4: some of the noises, but also help soothe ah.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good idea. I'm going to check it

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Speaker 1: on from my cat April. I mean, even the thunder

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Speaker 1: and lightning the other week in Auckland got her going.

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Speaker 1: So giving them that so that you just kind of

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Speaker 1: need to give them because you wish that you can

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Speaker 1: explain what's happening to them, right, you know, she's so

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Speaker 1: and she's trying to protect me from the thunder and

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Speaker 1: lend the loud noises and you just kind of want

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Speaker 1: to be like, I'm so sorry. So giving them kind

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Speaker 1: of another avenue to look at or listen to a

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Speaker 1: good idea.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and making sure you're home. I mean, I would

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Speaker 4: say that's one of the most important things, to make

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Speaker 4: sure they don't hurt themselves due to panic. We know

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Speaker 4: a lot of New Zealands really care about this issue,

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Speaker 4: and you'll be aware of the petitions currently before the

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Speaker 4: Select Committee. That has been we get petitions for fireworks

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Speaker 4: very often sadly without concrete action, but this has been

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Speaker 4: the highest number of signatures we've seen yet. And we'll

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Speaker 4: actually be traveling down Dwelling to next week to present

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Speaker 4: the sect Committee to try and get an end to

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Speaker 4: this madness. We can't keep doing this.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think there's still for sale in New Zealand.

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Speaker 4: That is a very good question. So to be clear

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Speaker 4: that New Zealand doesn't have an issue with notified public displays,

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Speaker 4: so where the communities can come together and enjoy fireworks.

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Speaker 4: What we have a problem with is the retail sales.

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Speaker 4: So we're the private sale and use of these fireworks

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Speaker 4: where anyone can decide to let off explosives at any

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Speaker 4: time of day or night on any given day, and

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Speaker 4: that's a real issue. So that's what we want to

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Speaker 4: see addressed.

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Speaker 1: What should someone do if because it's not only domesticated

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Speaker 1: pets and animals. Hey, you've got the horses obviously we've

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Speaker 1: spoken about, but also wildlife. What should someone do if

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Speaker 1: you see an injured bird or wildlife?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is we often see an empathize with

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Speaker 4: their own animals in the home and it can be

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Speaker 4: really distressing. But I'm from the UK, where a guy

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Speaker 4: fox is in the autumn. Here in New Zealand it

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Speaker 4: is in the spring when our vulnerable native birds are breeding.

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Speaker 4: Some of them are sitting on the nests, some of

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Speaker 4: them have young, and there's really good scientific evidence to

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Speaker 4: show that fireworks can actually cause big disruptions to the

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Speaker 4: behavior of these birds can also cause nest abandonment, disrupt feeding,

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Speaker 4: and sadly there's not a lot we can do to

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Speaker 4: protect them while we have our current rules in place.

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Speaker 1: Would tighter regulation rather than a full band be acceptable

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Speaker 1: or would it even work?

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Speaker 4: I suppose what we're looking for is thing that's a

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Speaker 4: practical compromise, which is allowing notified licensed public displays. We

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Speaker 4: think that allows people the fun and enjoyment whilst also

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Speaker 4: minimizing the harms, rather than we're not pushing for an

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Speaker 4: outright ban on all fireworks, although we have seen several

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Speaker 4: councils adopt alternatives, so drone shows, laser shows, which can

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Speaker 4: be really a great alternative without the negative side effects.

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Speaker 1: And so obviously this isn't a new conversation. We have

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Speaker 1: this conversation essentially every year around this time when they're

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Speaker 1: out for public sale. What do you think needs to

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Speaker 1: happen for this to go ahead or for the public

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Speaker 1: sale band to go ahead? Or do you think we're

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Speaker 1: getting quite close?

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting because Minister Greg Fleming, who received the petition,

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Speaker 4: he actually said that perhaps we were approaching a tipping point.

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Speaker 4: But I have to say, the scientific evidence on the

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Speaker 4: harms incredibly robust. It's not just animal welfare. We've also

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Speaker 4: got police and foreign emergency also pushing for a ban.

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Speaker 4: We know that actually there are great alternatives that would

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Speaker 4: allow people the same enjoyment. We know that this is

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Speaker 4: the most people that have ever signed petitions calling for

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Speaker 4: a ban. I'd kind of ask, what more can it

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Speaker 4: possibly take before we finally see some proper action on this,

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Speaker 4: because the status call cannot be allowed to continue.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us, Allison.

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Speaker 4: That's quite a right great chat.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

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Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 1: at nzherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is

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Speaker 1: produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also

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Speaker 1: our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio or where you get your podcasts, and tune

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Speaker 1: in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.