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Speaker 1: Kyoda.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to She had lunch brought to you by Chasa's.

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Speaker 2: I'm Helen Madison. Today we're doing something a little bit different.

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Speaker 2: We're talking all things payments. Do you use Google Pay,

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Speaker 2: Apple Pay or the Chasa's new spend card. In a moment,

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Speaker 2: I'll be talking to country manager for master Card at

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Speaker 2: Ruth Riviere.

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Speaker 3: The plus that from cards is a is a small

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Speaker 3: proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we feel like

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Speaker 3: we need to pay our part in that.

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Speaker 2: And She'sa's personal general manager, Scott Nixon.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people don't kind of think about their

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Speaker 1: income and what they're doing day to day as part

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Speaker 1: of their wealth.

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Speaker 2: Before we get started, here's some important information.

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Speaker 4: Investing involves the risk you might lose the money you

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Speaker 4: start with. We recommend talking to a licensed financial advisor.

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Speaker 4: We also recommend reading product disclosure documents before deciding to invest.

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Speaker 4: Everything you're about to see and hear is current at

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Speaker 4: the time of recording.

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Speaker 2: So welcome, Ruth, Welcome Scott. Great to have you here

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Speaker 2: at MasterCard. Let's start with you, Scott, and why has

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Speaker 2: Shesis decided to launch a debit card?

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Speaker 1: So we've been thinking for quite a long time that

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Speaker 1: if we really want to deliver on that heart of

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Speaker 1: wealth vision, we really do need to be doing something

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Speaker 1: in that kind of everyday spending, day to day money

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Speaker 1: management kind of space. So we feel like this is

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Speaker 1: the sort of next evolution for chas E's being that

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Speaker 1: kind of integrated experience.

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Speaker 2: It does seem a little bit counterintuitive to some though,

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Speaker 2: to think that spending is part of building you out.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people don't kind of think about their

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Speaker 1: income and what they're doing day to day as part

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Speaker 1: of their wealth. We do, and it is a really

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Speaker 1: important part of those kind of financial steps that you

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Speaker 1: are taking to grow your wealth in the long run.

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Speaker 1: Good money management, kind of financial management, good habits are

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Speaker 1: all part of your wealth picture overall.

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Speaker 2: So you partnered with master Card to bring spend to

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Speaker 2: investors in anyone else? Really, what does the contry detection entail?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, I guess at a functional level, what it

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Speaker 1: means is that we issue a Chezy's branded master card,

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Speaker 1: which we love because it gives us immediate access to

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Speaker 1: a global network. So you can use your card in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand and all over the world where master Card

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Speaker 1: is accepted straight off the bat. Which is obviously very

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Speaker 1: attractive for us.

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Speaker 2: Likewise, Bruce, what was it attracted you to cheesies?

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Speaker 3: We started to see a few examples globally of people

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Speaker 3: who are thinking about wealth and spending at the same time.

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Speaker 3: But really, Nason and I think when we thought about

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Speaker 3: the idea and we thought about New Zealand as a market,

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Speaker 3: Chassis was such an obvious partner. Someone who is seen

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Speaker 3: as super innovative, who is not just about an investment

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Speaker 3: platform but is now doing so many other things, and

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Speaker 3: a brand that people already deeply trust with their money.

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Speaker 3: And so that felt like a really natural fit with

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Speaker 3: some of what we were seeing globally and how you

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Speaker 3: could make it a really brilliant example here in New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: And also I just always really wanted a pink car,

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Speaker 3: so that was part of the conversation too.

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Speaker 2: That's a nice way. And to the global payments sector,

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Speaker 2: if you like, I mean, technology is really changing the

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Speaker 2: way we pay for sayings, what would you say is

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Speaker 2: probably the biggest change in the last five years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the last five years has been a story

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Speaker 3: of mass digitization and particularly the adoption of mobile wallets.

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Speaker 3: So since I think twenty three to twenty twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: we're expecting nearly to double the volume going through those wallets,

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Speaker 3: and that's in terms of card holder spending. But equally,

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Speaker 3: you're seeing the adoption of mobile on the acceptance side too,

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Speaker 3: so you don't need you know, that separate big terminal anymore. Actually,

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Speaker 3: you can accept payment on your mobile phone. So that

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Speaker 3: digitization and the pace of digitization five years isn't that

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Speaker 3: long in payments terms, but we've just seen such a

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Speaker 3: rapid adoption of that and that will continue.

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Speaker 5: So does that mean that people are using plastic cards

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Speaker 5: a little less in that the likes of Apple Pay,

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Speaker 5: Google Pay, the digitization.

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Speaker 2: That you kind of talked about is way more prevalent.

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Speaker 2: And do we have any figures on that adoption.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So the interesting thing about payments is you see technologies coexisting.

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Speaker 3: So not in New Zealand, but in the US they

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Speaker 3: still they still love a check. We don't have that here,

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Speaker 3: but we do. We do still have cash, We do

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Speaker 3: still have mag stripe, and we certainly see car physical

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Speaker 3: cards and digital wallets coexisting for really you know a

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Speaker 3: good period of time going forward. In New Zealand, we're

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Speaker 3: sort of twenty to thirty percent now in a digital wallet,

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Speaker 3: someone like Chares E and more innovative players are seeing

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Speaker 3: a slightly higher proportion of that versus mass and that's

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Speaker 3: quite a lot lower than Australia, which is about fifty

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Speaker 3: percent now through a digital wallet, and some parts of

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Speaker 3: Europe again you know higher, so so New Zealand probably

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Speaker 3: we're still going to see that pick up more and

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Speaker 3: particularly as some of these new propositions come to market,

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Speaker 3: we expect those to be a very digitally engaged customer.

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Speaker 2: So New Zealand often we've thought about is it back border,

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Speaker 2: but also for FinTechs, we can be a place to

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Speaker 2: experiment because it's a small audience. Are we quite behind

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Speaker 2: when it comes to payments?

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Speaker 3: So New Zealand was at the forefront of payments and

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Speaker 3: obviously FPOs and that just made New Zealand so digital

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Speaker 3: so quickly compared to other other places. But what's interesting

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Speaker 3: now is that you know, mags write technology. F POS

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Speaker 3: technology was from the sixties and it hasn't really changed

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Speaker 3: since and most markets see a lot less of that

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Speaker 3: than we do here and I think that's part of

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Speaker 3: why we see that slightly lower adoption on the digital side.

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Speaker 3: But you're absolutely right, and I think we're at the

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Speaker 3: cusp of some pretty exciting moves in retail banking to

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Speaker 3: see some great challenges come in. We've got a pretty

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Speaker 3: consolidated retail banking environment versus other markets.

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Speaker 2: That leads me to a question about if you do

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Speaker 2: want to use your plastic card every now and again,

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Speaker 2: is it plastic? Is there any cards that are environmentally freenely?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, Look, the plastic from cards is a is

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Speaker 3: a small proportion of overall plastic consumption globally, but we

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Speaker 3: feel like we need to play our part in that.

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Speaker 3: So by twenty twenty, there will be no more first

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Speaker 3: time use plastics in the network. And the shares Ease

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Speaker 3: card is a recycled plastic card, so we we absolutely

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Speaker 3: see the need to make sure that that recycled plastic

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Speaker 3: comes in. And then obviously the digital only cards, I

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Speaker 3: think for shares Ease, you need to request that you

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Speaker 3: want a physical card, So if you know that you're

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Speaker 3: only going to use it really digitally, then great, you

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Speaker 3: can be environmental and not have the plastic.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that comes to mind with cards in

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Speaker 2: digital walllots and like is the loyalty and incentives that

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Speaker 2: often go with the offerings that you might have signed

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Speaker 2: up for. How has that evolved, you know in that

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Speaker 2: five years or recent times, do you think?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean with lots of conversation about that. And

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Speaker 3: what's clear as we're moving away from that toaster loyalty,

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Speaker 3: you know, saving up for however many years and then

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Speaker 3: having a look through the catalog and getting getting a toaster,

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Speaker 3: and what we're seeing now is that consumers are expecting

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Speaker 3: brands to have a much better understanding about what they

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Speaker 3: care about, what they're passionate about, and rewarding them in

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Speaker 3: that way. And so we're seeing a move towards experiences

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Speaker 3: and moved towards access, and moved towards better alignment between

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Speaker 3: what the brand has as part of their core proposition

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Speaker 3: and what the consumer wants. We're also seeing that skew

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Speaker 3: towards corporate social responsibility, towards sustainability, and so we are

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Speaker 3: definitely seeing that start to change, which you know is exciting.

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Speaker 3: I look at me and you know, for my very

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Speaker 3: very much a fan of like the Macca and that's

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Speaker 3: not points, that's not five percent cash back, that's all

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Speaker 3: about access and experience.

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Speaker 2: And Scott Spend does have a fairly different if you

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Speaker 2: like incentive proposition. Let's let's unpack that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, so we're pretty excited to launch invest back

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Speaker 1: as part of Cheersy's spend. So a little bit like

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Speaker 1: people might be familiar with like cash back, as Ruth

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, but this is invest back. So this is

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Speaker 1: earning investments as you spend, which you know I talked

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Speaker 1: earlier about that. Now that link between your day to

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Speaker 1: day money management, spending habits, and growing your long term wealth.

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Speaker 3: We thought what.

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Speaker 1: Better way than show a really tangible link between those

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Speaker 1: two things, which is, as you're tapping your shining new

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Speaker 1: pink card using online wherever, you're earning investments back, which

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Speaker 1: is helping you grow wealth in the long run. It's

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Speaker 1: obviously something unique in New Zealand. This is sort of

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Speaker 1: probably a handful of examples of this around the world

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Speaker 1: that we've been able to find you.

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Speaker 2: So, invest back how does it actually work though? Does

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Speaker 2: it mean that the more I spend, the more I

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Speaker 2: get to invest?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So if you if you spend one hundred dollars at

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Speaker 1: a store, then we might put a dollar into an

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Speaker 1: investing poll and then that will be invested off on your.

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Speaker 2: Behalf and you would choose where you want to invest it.

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Speaker 1: I'm presuming initially, I think we're going to make a

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Speaker 1: We're going to make a default choice, but something we

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Speaker 1: think will be quite broad appeal, and then as it evolves,

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Speaker 1: I think we will look to offer choice. We already

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Speaker 1: have things like auto invest and people putting investing on

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Speaker 1: repeat and being able to select what they want. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably where you'd say it going over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because with this and like anything shares just does

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Speaker 2: you know, we usually often have a wait list of beta.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes there's a lot of back and forth with customers,

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Speaker 2: isn't there.

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Speaker 3: Just on that?

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Speaker 2: I mean so far, what sort of reaction have you

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Speaker 2: had to spend given it's in order to wait list

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Speaker 2: for a.

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Speaker 1: Little while now, Yeah, I mean it's definitely something that

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Speaker 1: customers have asked about proactively over the year. When you

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Speaker 1: guys going to do a card. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of you know, huge fans of the brand

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Speaker 1: who just want to be doing more with us. So

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Speaker 1: it's been great to be able to kind of satisfy

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Speaker 1: that need. Yep, we started up a waitlist back end

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Speaker 1: of last year. There's definitely some interest there, you know.

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Speaker 1: To your point, though, one of the things I love

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Speaker 1: about working at Shares's is we do experiment a lot

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Speaker 1: with our customers and we try and get things as

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Speaker 1: quickly as we can into their hands because they are

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Speaker 1: obviously the best judge of whether this is a good

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Speaker 1: product or not, and we're speaking to them quite frequently

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Speaker 1: about what they'd like to see next, and how it's

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Speaker 1: working and any bugs we need to fix and et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So we will have a period where we're ironing out

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Speaker 1: a few things. But like I said, it's much better

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Speaker 1: for us to do that with our customers, not sort

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Speaker 1: of hide it away and then do a big Tata

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Speaker 1: and then for great a bunch of stuff after that.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, just still ower the tone a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Ruth security is something that is part of life, and

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Speaker 2: particularly with finances, and unfortunately hacking is more prevalent than

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Speaker 2: it probably has ever been. Do you know what the

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Speaker 2: stats are around fraud with cards in Australasia for example.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're absolutely right. Fraud is such an arms race

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Speaker 3: and whatever we're spending, the bad guys are spending as much,

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Speaker 3: if not more to try and undermine it. So it's

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Speaker 3: a huge area of focus for us, both as MasterCard

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Speaker 3: and where we're investing internally as well as in acquisitions,

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Speaker 3: but also with our partners to make sure we are

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Speaker 3: doing everything we can to protect cardholders and retailers against

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Speaker 3: that fraud. About ninety percent of fraud comes in the

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Speaker 3: online space, and so that's really a big focus for

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Speaker 3: us and why we're implementing things are really focused or

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Speaker 3: on things like tokenization. So that means that when you

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Speaker 3: use your card online, we don't actually put the card

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Speaker 3: number on the website with the retailer, We put a

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Speaker 3: representation or a token in there. So it means if

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Speaker 3: then that retailer is hacked and frauds does get hold

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Speaker 3: of that card number, it can't be used again somewhere else.

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Speaker 3: So that's one thing that where we think will help

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Speaker 3: to address that.

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Speaker 1: And the other is.

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Speaker 3: Around biometric authentication. So most people are pretty comfortable now

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Speaker 3: with face ID or thumbprint if you're still on that,

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Speaker 3: and so making sure more and more payments are authenticated

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Speaker 3: with biometrics again just makes it much harder to hack

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Speaker 3: and for that fraud to happen. And then I think

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Speaker 3: we'll talk a little bit about some of thedditional innovation

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Speaker 3: that shares these has put around this card, which makes

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Speaker 3: it even more secure and safe customers to use.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that consumers particularly need more education about

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Speaker 2: how to keep safe online, given that's probably where the

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Speaker 2: line's share of the hacking does happen.

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Speaker 3: I think so, But it's so sophisticated nowadays, and the

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Speaker 3: breaches don't always happen with the cardholder. They also happen

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Speaker 3: with the retailer. They happen at all the stages, and

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Speaker 3: so just telling people that they need to be careful

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Speaker 3: is not the full story. So that's why we're really

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Speaker 3: focused on what can you embed from a technology perspective

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Speaker 3: to make sure that that security is inherent in every transaction.

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Speaker 3: Obviously people should be aware about, you know, not giving

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Speaker 3: other people their card details, making sure that they trust

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Speaker 3: the retailer that transacting with. But we think if we

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Speaker 3: can enable it at a technology level, that's going to

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Speaker 3: be a better outcome because.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't always know. I mean, we've all got friends

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Speaker 2: or ourselves who have been hit through various ways. I

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Speaker 2: had no idea at the time, would we yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: this card spend it doesn't hit a number on it.

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Speaker 2: So how does a numberless card work in practice?

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Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, there's no card number, so you can

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Speaker 3: use it contactless and when you're shopping, but if you

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Speaker 3: wanted to enter a card detail online, you'd need to

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Speaker 3: go to your Charesase app, You'd need to use face

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Speaker 3: idea to get into your phone, so you've got that

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Speaker 3: layer of biometric protection. And then just as Chase's customers

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Speaker 3: are already so used to going into the app as

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Speaker 3: part of their overall shars experience, you'd go in there

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Speaker 3: and you'd be able to get your card number in

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Speaker 3: the app, So that again is another layer of protection

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Speaker 3: that we're building in to the proposition. Amp Bank launched

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Speaker 3: it in Australia earlier this year and they say they

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Speaker 3: will but eradicated the card fraud on that because it

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Speaker 3: just makes it so much harder for someone to get

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Speaker 3: hold of your details and to use them without your consent.

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Speaker 3: So we think this is an awesome part of the

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Speaker 3: proposition and we would hope to see more of that

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Speaker 3: coming to market and just consumers getting more comfortable that

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Speaker 3: four card details you go back to the app.

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Speaker 2: How prevalent is it though? Is this something that's just

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Speaker 2: been adopted slowly or the numberless card.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so shares Is will be amongst a handful of

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Speaker 3: the first globally to be rolling this out, but we

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Speaker 3: expect it to become the norm and it helps with that.

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Speaker 3: As you said before, will have this coexistence of physical

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Speaker 3: and digital, but you can make physical more secure with digital,

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Speaker 3: kind of bringing the two together.

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Speaker 2: So raise just to kind of finish up, what excites

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Speaker 2: you about payments in the future, what's coming up?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, I'm a payments check but I do

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Speaker 3: think payments is really exciting and it it just continues

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Speaker 3: to evolve and things you weren't even thinking about six

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Speaker 3: or twelve months ago suddenly like, gosh, this is coming

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Speaker 3: for me. One of the one of the things I

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Speaker 3: think is going to be transformative. And you wouldn't be

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Speaker 3: able to host a podcast without someone saying AI at

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Speaker 3: some point. But I do think that that AI, as

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Speaker 3: it is transforming, you know, every other part of our lives,

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Speaker 3: will transform the way we pay as well, and it

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Speaker 3: will start to transform it really quickly. You think about

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Speaker 3: how quickly you've moved your search, you know, into into

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Speaker 3: these agents, and so we're going to see agents making

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Speaker 3: payments really soon, so it's already live in the US,

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Speaker 3: I would not be surprised if it's not here in

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Speaker 3: the next six to twelve months. And so you'll set

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Speaker 3: off your agent. You'll say, you know, I'd like to

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Speaker 3: buy when you see this at this price in this size,

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Speaker 3: with these shipping or whatever it is, or I'm looking

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Speaker 3: for a holiday end to end. So it will be

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Speaker 3: fantastic for consumers to have that capability. But what then

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Speaker 3: becomes interesting is, well, how do you know as a

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Speaker 3: bank or as a retailer that someone has authorized that

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Speaker 3: agent to go and do that thing? And so that's where,

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Speaker 3: you know, we come back to some of the technologies

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Speaker 3: we've already talked about around biometric authentication, around the tokenization,

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Speaker 3: and those become foundational for a really effective agentic payments ecosystem.

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Speaker 3: So it won't all be brand new. These building blocks

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Speaker 3: that we're putting in place now will be so important

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Speaker 3: so that you know that that agent is doing the

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Speaker 3: work that it's supposed to do. But I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're back talking in a year or so, we'd expect

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Speaker 3: to see the Chasa's card being used as part of

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Speaker 3: some of those experiences across New Zealand.

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Speaker 2: And scott for you that, are there anything else you

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Speaker 2: can tell us about where the payment's card spenge will

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Speaker 2: go in the future gender the ecosystem we have a chooses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's as I said, there's lots of

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Speaker 1: ideas we've got about where it could go, and we're

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Speaker 1: certainly keen to hear from our customers on that. The

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Speaker 1: other thing we haven't probably touched on much today is

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Speaker 1: open banking, and you know it has been a bit

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Speaker 1: of a slow burn in New Zealand for a number

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Speaker 1: of years, but we're really starting to see that accelerate

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Speaker 1: in recent months and we think that opens up a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of other payment related opportunities for us at

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Speaker 1: Cheeseys make it much easier to get money in and

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Speaker 1: out of the platform, to be using that money a

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Speaker 1: more holistic view of your overall financial picture. So with

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Speaker 1: some of these building blocks coming ai open banking and

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Speaker 1: then the capability that we're putting down with Cheesy Spend,

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Speaker 1: we think we think we can create some really neat experiences.

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Speaker 1: Like I say, our almost singular focus though is how

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Speaker 1: do they help people grow their wealth in the long term.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we want to keep anchoring ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Back to Thanks everyone for tuning in. You can watch

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Speaker 2: Shared Lunch on YouTube or follow us on your favorite

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Speaker 2: podcast step, leave us a rating and tell us what

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Speaker 2: you'd like to hear next. Right now, we're going to

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Speaker 2: go test the cheesy Spend card with Ruth and Scott.

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Speaker 2: So here we are at Cafe Menza at the Viaduct

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Speaker 2: in downtown Auckland.

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Speaker 1: What do we do now, Scott, I've got my card,

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Speaker 1: so I think we should probably buy something.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, ol me