1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: So you can't argue with the stat I don't think 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: we're rolling in education at the moment. Turnarounds on the 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: new PHONICX Literacy program shows as term three fifty eight 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: percent fifty eight of the new entrants or above expectations, 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: which is up from thirty six, and term one forty 6 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: three percent exceeding expectations, which is double term one. Erica 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: Stanford's the Education minister back with us, very good morning 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: to you. 9 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 2: Good morning mate. 10 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: Did you have numbers by way of expectation or you 11 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: just didn't know? 12 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: We knew what we were probably going to see because 13 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: I had looked at schools who had already done this 14 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 2: for the last five years, and looked at the ADATA, 15 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: and we knew this is where we probably would be tracking. 16 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 2: But when you are rolling something out at scale across 17 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: the entire country and training over thirty thousand teachers in 18 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 2: a brand new way of teaching reading, you just don't know. 19 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: So when we did see these figures come in, it 20 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: was a it was a good day. 21 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Mike, is exactly is there more where that came from? 22 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: Do you think, oh, there's a huge amount. 23 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: This is only one very small snapshot of ourt little 24 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 2: wee tiny five year old if they just start school, 25 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: we track them through so we test them again on 26 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: the same test at forty weeks and then of course 27 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: from next year twice a year every year and reading, writing, 28 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: and maths, there will be a progress monitoring check in. 29 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: I dare not call it a test, but we will 30 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: be essentially assessing every child from year three to make 31 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 2: sure that they're on track with their reading, writing, and maths, 32 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: and that includes high level literacy like comprehension and those 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: other What we. 34 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: Got yesterday, though, is that low hanging fruit? Would you 35 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: expect something if you change it up and it's simple 36 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: and it's easy to do or not? 37 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: Sorry I say that again? 38 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: Is it low hanging fruit? In other words, you're always 39 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: anyone could do this? 40 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: No, not anyone could do this because for decades we 41 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: have been following the three queuing men of look at 42 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: the picture, guess the word, and the previous government would 43 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: not put the little line in the sand and say 44 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: we're not doing that anymore. We are going to switch 45 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: to phonics and sounding out the word and learning the 46 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 2: code and under standing a letter makes a sound. Now 47 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: you can't get these results unless you are a government 48 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: that's prepared to stand up and say we're going to 49 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: follow the science and the evidence. James Chapman and New 50 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: Zealand has been fighting this for thirty years. It looks simple, 51 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 2: it looks easy. People are like, oh, it's just phonics. 52 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: But unless you have a government that's prepared to say 53 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 2: we're not going to look at the picture against the 54 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: word anymore, you don't get these results. So no, it's 55 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: not easy. 56 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: So the kiapoins thing you referenced in the press conference yesterday, 57 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: where did that come from? And why weren't we doing it? Anyway? 58 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: Because the question that came out to be kipoy answer 59 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: was a good one. Why aren't we or haven't we 60 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: been doing it? 61 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: Because we New Zealand was the home of balanced literacy 62 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 2: and reading recovery, which was look at the picture and 63 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: guess the word. And we grew that movement and spread 64 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: it around the rest of the world. And we've been 65 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: hanging on to it desperately, even in the face of 66 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 2: declining data and evidence to show that it didn't work. 67 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: And I don't honestly, I don't know why, because there 68 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: are people who have been fighting it forever. But principles 69 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 2: like Jason Miles at Kayapoint and many others took that 70 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: step and did it themselves anyway, which helped me give 71 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: me the confidence in the data I needed to do it. 72 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 2: But look, I can't answer why we haven't done this earlier. 73 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: It's just honestly, it probably needed a government that was 74 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 2: prepared to, like I say, put that line in the sand, 75 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: and we did that. 76 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time very much. Eriicon stand for Education minis. 77 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to 78 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 1: news talks i'd Be from six am weekdays, or follow 79 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.