1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: The Huddle with New Zealand Southby's International Realty, the only 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: truly global brand on. 3 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: The Huddle of Us this evening. Tris Shurson, Sharson, Willis 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: pr and Phil Goff, former Labor Party minister, and Or Klimre. 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: Hello you two. 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 3: I feel all right. 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 2: So t you worried about it? Trusture you there? 8 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I am sorry. Go again. 9 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: Here's a worried about convictions of the eighties and nineties 10 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: and what we're seeing here read the David Tamerhead a case. 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 3: You know, when you hear stories like this, there's something 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 3: deep inside of you that goes, oh, you know. I 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 3: think in all of us it's kind of your worst 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 3: fear is a wrongful a wrongful conviction. But I think 15 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 3: we need to be really clear around the sun. This 16 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 3: is a major failure of the justice system, but it's 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: not in itself a triumph for any side. If you 18 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 3: if you look at actually what the decision is, it's 19 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 3: a that the trial was unfair. And I think the 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 3: point here is not whether we or anyone likes Tamahady. 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 3: The point is whether the system got it right, and 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 3: it clearly didn't. And you know, if you have a 23 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: conviction that relied on tainted or unreliable evidence. It shouldn't 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: stand full stop that, you know, we can't have a 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: system that that fights for that. But I think the 26 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 3: other really grim part here is the time that's gone 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 3: by nearly four decades and we've still got no finality. 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: So it's really devastating in my view for everyone involved. 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 3: And let's not forget the victims' families here, Phil, do 30 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: you think it. 31 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: Will go to retrump? 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been wondering about that. Part of me says, God, 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 4: it's forty years ago now and it's going to cost millions. 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 4: Another part of me said, look, I'm not convinced yet 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 4: that Tama Heery is innocent. I think the Supreme Court's 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 4: probably got it right in saying, you know, tainted evidence 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,399 Speaker 4: and there should be a retrial. But you can see 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 4: why the police did what they did. I mean, Tom here, 39 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 4: he was in possession of the car that belonged to 40 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 4: the two that were murdered, and he had a prior 41 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 4: conviction for killing a woman by hitting her on the 42 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 4: head with the rifle, and he was facing charges before 43 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 4: he absconded on violent sexual assault. You know, he fitted 44 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 4: the bill, but often when you fit the bill like that, 45 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 4: the police then ignore the evidence that goes against their 46 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 4: case and only listens to something that might help their case. 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 4: And I think the police have got an obligation to 48 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 4: keep an open mind because the task that they've got 49 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 4: is to find the person who is guilty. Not simply 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 4: it's not an adversarial game just we need to win. 51 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 4: It's do we have enough evidence to show that this man, 52 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 4: beyond reasonable doubt murdered this couple They thought they did. 53 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 4: They may be right, but a lot of what they 54 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 4: a lot of their case was wrong. Based on you know, 55 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 4: the guy that purged himself it was a jail bird anyway, 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 4: why would you believe him? And based on the fact 57 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 4: that the body that was found was found seventy kilometers 58 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 4: away from the scenario that they posed. You know, they 59 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 4: are big holes in the prosecution case, right they are? 60 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: Now, Trish, What do you think can the Greens field 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: a candidate who is a sex worker. 62 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 3: Well, I don't think there's anything stopping them from doing that. 63 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 3: And let's face it, the Greens is probably by definition 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 3: the very broadest church of any political party. But in 65 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: my view your comment was right around the kind of candidates. 66 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 3: The Greens need, you know, more James Shaw, less sex worker. 67 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: And let me tell you that the really important reason 68 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: why James Shaw was he had an amazing ability to 69 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 3: bridge the divide between the Greens and business to get 70 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 3: a wide consensus around you know, the really big climate goals. 71 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 3: But more importantly for the Greens, James was the reason 72 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 3: that a lot of Green supporters in the you know, 73 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 3: leafy inner suburbs of Auckland, where a lot of their 74 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 3: big donations came from. He was the reason that those 75 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 3: donations came in. And my view is that the Green 76 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: Party will have a very challenging time fundraising for this 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 3: campaign because they don't have anyone like James Shaw too 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: to appeal to people. 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 2: I think you might be right, I wonder, Philip. Also, 80 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 2: the thing is labor. The Labor Party around the time 81 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 2: of Georgina was was quite a serious institution, so it 82 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: could afford to have like just a few kind of 83 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: out there characters, whereas the Greens isn't. It doesn't it 84 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: doesn't have the same serious vibes. They probably can't afford 85 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: to take risks on on sex workers. 86 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 4: What do you think, Yeah, that's probably right. I remember 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 4: going canvassing with Georgina up and the wire wrapper, and 88 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 4: I thought I was there to help her, but every 89 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 4: door I knocked on they said, oh Georgia, she's been 90 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 4: a wonderful mayor and what a character, you know. And 91 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 4: I remember Georgina saying to me one time, they can't 92 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 4: accuse me of anything because I've confessed to everything already. 93 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: Look Georgia was. Look she was, you know, she was 94 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 4: a serious character. I don't know the person the Greens 95 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 4: have chosen. Your first political instinct is if I was 96 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 4: running the Green Party, I'd say, why did the teal 97 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 4: candidates in Australia? The Blue Greens in Australia do so well, 98 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 4: And that's because there is a constituency out there for 99 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 4: people serious on environmental matters. But they, you know, the 100 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 4: Greens can allow themselves to be painted as being a 101 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 4: little bit wacky and that doesn't help them and probably 102 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 4: doesn't help labor either. You know, I would the troubles 103 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 4: Their activists are always activists in any party are always 104 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 4: more on the X dreams in the mainstream parties themselves, 105 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 4: so they choose to tend to pick candidates that appeal 106 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 4: to them. They need to pick candidates that also appeal 107 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 4: to the electorate too. 108 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: Right, they get a bit distracted by the activists. All right, 109 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: we'll take a break. Come back to you, guys, talk 110 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: about Donald Trump and God and the Pope in a minute. 111 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 1: The huddle with New Zealand Southeby's International Realty a name 112 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: you can trust locally and globally. 113 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: Right, you're back of the huddle, Tricius and Phil GoF Trish. 114 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 2: Do you think Donald Trump did the right thing striking 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 2: a run. 116 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: I am still not convinced that it's the right thing 117 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: to do. And I think what we are continuing to 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 3: see is that it was a strike made a without 119 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: the right level of evidence, B without the right level 120 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: of strategic planning behind it, and C without the right 121 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: level of thinking about the very real world consequences that 122 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: would naturally flow from that. And I was reading over 123 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 3: the weekend an article of about how you know, in 124 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 3: all of the years thinking about what to do about Iran, 125 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 3: the straight of hor moves was one of the biggest 126 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 3: vulnerabilities and the biggest risk to doing anything. And I 127 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: think the point for me is this, Heather, that what 128 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 3: I've seen from Donald Trump and from those close to 129 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: him around this their comments about that, why they've done it, 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 3: and how this ends from here. They are absolutely all 131 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: over the show. And in no way for me do 132 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 3: they ladder up to what you would expect of a 133 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: major global power, who has who has attacked another sovereign nation. 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: I don't even know if I should ask you this question, Phil, 135 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: because I think I already I think we're bad. You're 136 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 2: on the side of Demoka, aren't you. 137 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 4: Look Look, absolutely, we're seeing a whole of costs from 138 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 4: this war, and we're seeing no benefits. The costs well, 139 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 4: you know, to ask anyone that goes down to their 140 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 4: service station, look at the business confidence figures today. Our 141 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 4: inflation will be up, our growth will be down, our 142 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 4: recovery will be put off. We might find that we 143 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 4: start to run short on fuel. But put alongside that, 144 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 4: you know, thousands of deaths already in both Iran and Lebanon, 145 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 4: huge destruction, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of destruction. 146 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 4: We've got a war that was started against the Charter 147 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 4: of the United Nations and international law. They said that 148 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 4: they were going to get regime changed. There was never 149 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 4: any chance they have changed the regime they've made it worse. 150 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 4: You know, you look at will have stop Iran creating 151 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 4: a nuclear weapon. Actually, it will make it more likely 152 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 4: because we actually had things in place, agreements in place 153 00:08:51,160 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 4: before the first Trump administration. I do I believe it anyway, 154 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 4: I believe it. I I was Minister Foreign Affairs when 155 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: they decided they'd go in to invade Iraq because it 156 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 4: had weapons of mass destruction. I worked with the United 157 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 4: Nations supervisor of guy called hands Blicks. Then I knew 158 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 4: that wasn't true. Our security intelligence people told me it 159 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: wasn't true. They went in in a lie on this. 160 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 4: If you've got verification and monitoring by international agencies, you've 161 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 4: got better chance of stopping a nuclear weapon than so 162 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 4: called Trump's many times obliterating their facilities. You can only 163 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 4: obliterate something once. It means you totally destroy it. They 164 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 4: keep claiming now that they still have the weapons despite 165 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 4: having obliterated it, and the intelligence service, the Pentagon and 166 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 4: the CIA both told Trump there was no imminent threat 167 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 4: of them developing a nuclear weapon. So it was all 168 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 4: based on a lie, on a capricious, inconsistent individual. That's 169 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 4: causing this world a lot of grief and a lot 170 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 4: of costs, guys. 171 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 3: And before Paul Phil completely overheats, I think the other point, 172 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: if you've got any any inkling of whether or not 173 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: the right people are in charge here, what is deeply 174 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 3: concerning is you have those around Trump openly saying that 175 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: this is now some kind of wacky religious crusade that 176 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 3: they are embarking on. And to me, that's like fairies 177 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 3: at the bottom of the garden and it just shows 178 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 3: you that you know that this, you know the lunatics 179 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 3: have taken over the asylum. And to Phil's point, we 180 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: are all paying for it now every time we fill 181 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 3: up the. 182 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 2: Car, yep, we are. A question is whether it was 183 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 2: worth it. Guys, it was good to talk to you. 184 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 2: Thank you, Tritius and Phil Golf. 185 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to 186 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: news Talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 187 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,599 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio.