1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business of Tech, powered by two Degrees Business. 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Peter Griffin, and this week there's a 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: big week for me. My first book is being published. 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: It's very exciting. I spent my whole career banging out articles, features, podcasts, 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: a book chapter here or there, a bit of ghostwriting. 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: But finally I've got my name on the cover off 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: a book and it feels great. The book is called 8 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: The Launch of rocket Lab. It's a collaboration between Rocket Lab, 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: which commissioned the book to mark its twentieth anniversary, which 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: is coming up early next year, and Wonderful Aukland publisher 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: at Blackwell Ruth, which has a string of quality book 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: projects to its name. HarperCollins is involved distributing the book 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: here in New Zealand and around the world. It's a 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 1: coffee table book. It looks amazing, crammed with photos from 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: the Rocket Lab archives as well as beautiful graph of 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: the electron and neutron rockets and all the Rocket Labs 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: spacecraft they've created over the years, plus my words and 18 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: interviews with a host of Rocket Lab engineers, executives and 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: outside observers. 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: It's turned out to be good timing for the book launch. 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: Interest in rocket Lab has exploded since I wrote the 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: book late last year and into January February. That's actually 23 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: one of the pitfalls of writing a book. I've discovered 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: there's such a long lead time in the book publishing 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: world that so much has changed since the launch of 26 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: rocket Lab actually was put to bed and went to 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: the printers. The value of the company, which is listed 28 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: on the Nasdaq Exchange, has jumped to north of fifty 29 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: billion New Zealand dollars, making it the most valuable New 30 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: Zealand founded publicly traded company. The share price has been 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: yo yoing around fifty five US dollars with the high 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: of nearly seventy dollars, so a lot of volatility there, 33 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: but you know, five hundred percent. 34 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: In the last year. It's incredible. 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: The company isn't profitable yet, but has been buoyed by 36 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: analysts upgrading their share price targets on the back of 37 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: new deals won by rocket Lab, healthy revenue growth this 38 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: year and. 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: Projected into the future. 40 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: But the buzz around the company really is very much 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: about the anticipation for Neutron, the new medium lift rocket 42 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: that the company has been developing and which will allow 43 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: it to take on SpaceX's Falcon nine. In the launch industry, 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: SpaceX effectively has a monopoly on regular commercial launches for 45 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: larger payloads. There are a few other players, but they by 46 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: and large are the big one dominating the industry. And 47 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: you've got Rocket Lab doing the smaller launches up to 48 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: seventy three or seventy four launches now. So people are 49 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: waking up to the fact that Neutron, if successful, could 50 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: change the dynamics and the entire space industry. Rocket Labs 51 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: set a deadline for itself off the end of twenty 52 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: twenty five to complete it's made in law of Neutron. 53 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: Will they make it look I really don't know, Sirpeter 54 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: Beck says. They'll be working to the last day of 55 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: December to try and get the launch away. But this 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: is rocketry. It's complicated. There are a lot of moving parts. 57 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: Deadlines can slip, So if it pushes into twenty twenty six, 58 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: so be it. I recorded this episode with Sir Peter 59 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: Beck a couple of weeks ago when he was in 60 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: the thick of it in the US with his team 61 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: working on the rocket, working on the launch details. It's 62 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: a pretty intense time for the company, but a good 63 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: time also to reflect on the milestones that have led 64 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: to this very point, which Supreeda really sees as just 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: the first phase off rocket Lab, which is why he 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: suggested let's call it the launch of rocket Lab. He 67 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: sees the company being around for decades to come, with 68 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot more innovation to come as well. So Electron 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: has really laid the foundation for the next, maybe the 70 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: middle phase of the company. So here's my chat with 71 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: Sir Peter reflecting on those twenty years and how he 72 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: maintains the intensity and ambition that have been integral to 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: rocket lab success. Stick around at the end, I'll give 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: you my key takeaway. What has stayed with me having 75 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: written this book and what it has in terms of 76 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: wider relevance to New Zealand. 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: Still it up some businesses. 78 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: Trying to take on the world. Here's rocket Lab, Sir 79 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: Peter Beck. 80 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: So, Peter, welcome to the business of tech. How are 81 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: you doing. 82 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 3: I'm doing well there. 83 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: You know, this book, The Launch of rocket Lab, is 84 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: coming out this week. Incredible photos there, three hundred pages. 85 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's a beautiful product. You know, the honor 86 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: really of interviewing you and a lot of your engineers 87 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: and key executives for their perspectives on it the first time. 88 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: I think that so many of those perspectives have really 89 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: been gathered in one place, so many milestones over twenty years. 90 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: I guess it was about now twenty years ago that 91 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: you took that trip to the US, you know, went 92 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: around all the places you thought you wanted to work at, 93 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: places like NASA Jet Propulsional Laboratory, came away a bit disillusioned, 94 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: got on that plane back to New Zealand, and then 95 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: we're thinking, Okay, I don't want to work for them. 96 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: I want to build and launch rockets. I'm going to 97 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: have to do it myself. 98 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that's the history. And you know it's great too. 99 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: It's great to have a you know, a book. I 100 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 4: think you know, it's always frustrated. And I'm sure you know, 101 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 4: when there's there's like twenty years of stories, you can 102 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: make a book like one hundred times bigger than the 103 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 4: one that you did. So it's always it's always kind 104 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: of difficult to just pick out the stories. And then 105 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 4: you know, as as you as you were interviewing myself 106 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 4: and I know some of the others. It's like there's 107 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 4: so many you know, you prompted for so many memories. 108 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 4: So I think the book is kind of like a 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 4: highlights reel. But ye's certainly a tremendous number of milestones, 110 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 4: as you say, and anecdotes on the way through. 111 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, in those early days, I think it is particularly interesting. 112 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: You were working at Industrial Research at the time. You know, 113 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: you've done a number of jobs. The Fisher and Pikel 114 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: experience was really fundamental to building on your engineering skills. 115 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: And then yeah, literally, you know Shaan O'Donnell, you know 116 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: who's still with Rocket Lab twenty years later, going to 117 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: him outside Industrial Research one day and saying, hey, do 118 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: you want to come and work with me designing and 119 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: building rockets? That was the genesis of it. 120 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's right, yeah, yeah, no, kind of the initial 121 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 4: team is largely still intact within the company, and as 122 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 4: we've grown and acquired companies and scaled, it's you know, 123 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 4: it's been imperative to keep that same culture of those 124 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 4: very early days running through the company. 125 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 3: Now. 126 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: That's one of the things that struck me about it 127 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: is some of those people, and some of them were 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: not you know, they were not from an aerospace background. 129 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: Some of them came as graduates out of university because 130 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: literally you weren't allowed to hire people from the US 131 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: aerospace industry. So what struck me is about how many 132 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: of those people are still around in such a fast 133 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: paced you know, basically startup as twenty years old, but 134 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: the pace at which you move you think would burn 135 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: people out. 136 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: But a lot of those key people are still there. Yeah. 137 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, you have to be very 138 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 4: resilient to work at Rocket Lab, and that's the case 139 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 4: in point. But I mean, I think the work is 140 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 4: still incredibly fulfilling and exciting, and you know, if you 141 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 4: really love what you're doing and you get to work 142 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 4: on the most cool stuff in the world and in 143 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 4: the industry, it's not really work anymore, is it. So 144 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: I think that's you know, that's why people can endure 145 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 4: it for so long. 146 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 147 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 1: I remember researching book, just going back looking at some 148 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: of those videos of you at the time, particularly that 149 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: one I love a three News clip I few on 150 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: Great Mercury Island, just the thrill, the excitement of that 151 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: first launch of r T one, a small step on 152 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 1: the way to electron But what are your memories of 153 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: that moment. 154 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 4: Well, I mean relief more than anything, because you know, 155 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: would work so hard to get to that, to get 156 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 4: to that moment, and you never really know. You can 157 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 4: test as much as you can test, but you really 158 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 4: know you're not sure of the outcome. So, you know, 159 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 4: tremendous relief and excitement because that that was really, you know, 160 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 4: the beginning of the story. Not it was an important 161 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 4: master but really that was the one thing that we 162 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 4: did that gave us enough credibility to you know, to 163 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 4: come to the States and you start doing real work. 164 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: I spoke to thend Cosler, one of your first major 165 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: funders at the time. A lot of big risks you 166 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: took there in your approach to actually getting the money 167 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: to allow you to take the next steps to build 168 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the rocket you actually wanted to build. But you came 169 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: away with what five million dollars initially from Kosler Ventures, 170 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: and then built on that relatively quickly. I guess, you know, 171 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty cool that a lot of those investors 172 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: stayed with you through the bulk of years and and 173 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: then joined you in the Nasdaq listing as well. 174 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think the risk was was 175 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 4: far greater for the node than than I. He took 176 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 4: the risk there. You know, it was I was a 177 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 4: KEEPI engineer with never run a company before, and from 178 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 4: a country that had no space industry. And yeah, so 179 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 4: I think I think, you know, all credit to the 180 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 4: no but that's that's kind of you know, the way 181 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 4: he rolled and but you know, it's it's it was 182 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 4: five million dollars. Was like it seemed like an infinite 183 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 4: fund at that point, given the you know, the scale 184 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 4: of the investment we've had prior to that, and we 185 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 4: got a tremendous amount done for that that five million dollars. 186 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 3: And you know, we fast forward today and New Zealand dollars. 187 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 4: You know, the market cap of the company is around 188 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 4: about fifty billion, So you know, I did well from 189 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 4: his his investment. 190 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: It just shows you that, you know, the scale and 191 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 3: the growth of the company from you know, from it's 192 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: hundred beginning. 193 00:09:58,559 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: It's incredible. 194 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: And as he pointed out when I spoke to him, 195 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: and as you've reinforced yourself when you went to the 196 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: US and saw the aerospace industry, just the scale of 197 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: waste essentially you know just how much money it costs 198 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: them to do things that you were doing for tens 199 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars, even when 200 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: you went out to the Mohave Desert and seeing where 201 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: they've got a grant from million dollars, what they actually 202 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: produced and what you were able to produce, And that 203 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: discipline has extended all the way through even to Neutron, 204 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: where your your total cost is something like three hundred 205 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: and fifty million, that would be a multi billion dollar 206 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: project from the typical aerospace industry. 207 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Yes, it's a good point. 208 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 4: Like I mean, you know, the most recent traditional rocket 209 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 4: program was something like ten years of development and seven 210 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 4: billion dollars. So yeah, four or five years for the 211 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 4: Neutron and t fifty million is as you say, it's 212 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 4: a stark difference, and you know speaks to the company 213 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 4: and kind of you know, approach throughout the company has 214 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 4: been consistent. And I think when you start from nothing 215 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 4: and you have no resources. 216 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 3: Then you never forget that. 217 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 4: And I think it's very difficult to to kind of well, 218 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 4: at least within within the company, and you know, it's 219 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: very difficult to get kind of you know, fat, rich 220 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 4: and happy. It's like everybody is always you know, always 221 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 4: on the bleeding edge of you know, making sure we 222 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 4: extract the maximum amount of effort and results from the 223 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 4: minimum amount of capital. 224 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that bleeding edge is a section and book 225 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: where we beautiful graphics off the you know, the schemas 226 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: of you know, the rather fit engine, the electron rocket, 227 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: and that those bleeding edge innovations that you were able 228 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: to pull off with very little money and the wisdom 229 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: of a small team, the carbon fiber composites, the three 230 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: D printing off the electron engine, which is still fundamental 231 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: technologies that underpin all of your electron rockets today and 232 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: will underpen neutron as well. 233 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, and you know, we were the leader 234 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 4: and a lot of those technologies. You know, we're the 235 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 4: first company to put a carbon composite rocket into orbit. 236 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 4: We're the first company to do electric turbo pumps, and 237 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 4: as you say, the first company to put a three 238 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 4: D printed engine in space and their loan orbit and 239 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: those things now are standard practice. I mean there's I 240 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 4: don't think there's anybody building, you know, a modern rocket 241 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 4: engine today that that doesn't you know, three D print 242 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 4: elements of it. 243 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 3: But at the time we were certainly leaning forward on 244 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: the technology. 245 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 4: But that's always been the I guess the ethoss of 246 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 4: the company as well is we're not afraid to push 247 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 4: forward on new new kind of barriers, you know, new 248 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 4: processes and new new kind of technical barriers. If we 249 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 4: can see, if we can see a payoff for a 250 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 4: piece of technology, then you know, we're early technology adopts 251 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 4: that in that respect. 252 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: I think you're you're coming up to your seventy third 253 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: launch or something like that, just incredible. Probably still the 254 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: most successful track record off rocket launches to date for 255 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: a commercial company, if not for any sort of organization, 256 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: just in terms of the successful launches and delivery to 257 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: orbit of off satellites. That really comes I think back 258 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: to your precision approach. You value high quality, You demand 259 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people. How do you sustain that over 260 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: twenty years without collapsing in a sweaty mess. 261 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? 262 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's kind of you know, self fulfilling 263 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: in a lot of respects, because the people that come 264 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 4: to rocket Lab want to build beautiful hardware. 265 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 3: That works and not just works, but it works beautifully. 266 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 4: And so I think you know, if you turn up 267 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 4: at rocket Lab and you built something that looks ugly 268 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 4: or you know, is not well engineered. It gets called 269 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 4: out really really quickly because you know, we've assembled a 270 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 4: group of people here that have tremendous passion and pride 271 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,359 Speaker 4: in what they do. And to be fair, if anybody 272 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 4: presents a piece of hardware that doesn't look good and 273 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 4: I see it, they know about it real quick. So 274 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 4: you know, it doesn't take much kind of much kind 275 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 4: of alignment to be honest with you, but you know, 276 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 4: the alignment is swift, so you know, it's it's pretty 277 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 4: easy to keep the keep the quality of the products 278 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 4: high because people, you know, that's why people come here. 279 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 4: They don't come here to build a look and rubbish. 280 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 4: They come here to build the most most beautiful things. 281 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that filters people out pretty quickly. Yeah. 282 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: One of my favorite images in the book is I 283 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: think it's the Center Spread, which is this stunning photo 284 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: of Mahia Peninsula. And it was really great, you know, 285 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: talking to you and your colleagues about the hunt for 286 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: the perfect place to launch rockets from in New Zealand. 287 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: You were looking down in the Canterbury region for a while. 288 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: You settled on Mahia. A beautiful story of how you 289 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: sort of build a relationship with that community on the 290 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Maha there, so Michael Fay was was important and broaching 291 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: that relationship as well. 292 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, it's a funny old beginning because we 293 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 4: we if you look at the country and you think 294 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 4: about one of the ideal places to launch from, you know, 295 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 4: the bit that's sticking out the east is you know, 296 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 4: is obviously the best bit, and you know, trying to 297 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 4: make contact with their owners and the shareholders of. 298 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 3: That land ultimately, Yeah, I mean we were lucky. 299 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 4: Michael Fay had a farm down that way and we 300 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 4: met the you know, the the chiefs of the you know, 301 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 4: of the trust who owned the land at a donut 302 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: shop of all places, and and so no, it was 303 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 4: you know, it's been a great time and it's it's 304 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 4: it's great to be in that community. 305 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and great that Mahia is still a power house 306 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: really for rocket Lab, but still where the majority of 307 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: launches are done. That might change over time, but it's 308 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: still really fit for purpose, isn't it. 309 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 4: I mean it's it is the best launch slide in 310 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 4: the world, hands down, for so many reasons. And when 311 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 4: one of the most beautiful, and two we get the 312 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 4: most amount of inclination out of any launch side in 313 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 4: the world. 314 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 3: It's you know, it's truly a special place. 315 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty seventeen. Obviously your first launch if Electron high stakes, though, 316 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: wasn't it. I mean you said, we've got one on 317 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: the pad, I think two in the shed. If that 318 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: one blows up, you run out pretty quickly, so off 319 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: money and rockets. So take us back to how you 320 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: felt sort of going into that first launch. 321 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's all a bit of a blur, 322 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 4: to be honest with you, because it just, you know, 323 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 4: perhaps I've blocked some of it out because it was painful, 324 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 4: but we're all working crazy hard. But we put that 325 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 4: rocket on the pad with you know, at least a 326 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 4: ninety percent success rate that we that we felt that 327 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 4: it was going to be successful. So I said to 328 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 4: the whole team, you know, in the in the final 329 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 4: kind of months leading up to the launch, that we're 330 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 4: not going to put something on the pad that doesn't 331 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 4: have at least a ninety percent chance of success. So 332 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 4: if you're up system, your component, your software or anything 333 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 4: isn't you don't think it has a ninety percent probability 334 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 4: of success, then come and see me, and you know, well, 335 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 4: we'll make sure it does before we fly. So we 336 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 4: ran a pretty rigorous process and we had we you know, 337 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 4: from day one, we always had this process where if 338 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: anybody thinks that there could be an issue with the rocket, 339 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,719 Speaker 4: they can create a ticket, an issue ticket, and submit it. 340 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 4: So it doesn't even matter if you're if you know, 341 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: you're not even working on the rocket. If you walk 342 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 4: past it and you think something doesn't look quite right, 343 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 4: you can write an issue ticket. And we made the 344 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 4: decree that we would not fly unless every issue or 345 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 4: risk ticket was closed. And and that's what we did. Yeah, 346 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 4: for a first flight, it was. 347 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: You know, it was it was incredibly successful. 348 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: It was a success. 349 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: Frustrating that a dodgy piece of software meant it had 350 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: to be aborted, but nothing to do with you know, 351 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: all the groundwork that you'd laid. 352 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 4: Yeah, well that was a great lesson because you know, 353 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 4: we we we had all our stuff together, but you know, 354 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 4: third party contractor that we were brought in who arranged 355 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 4: kind of safety experts didn't. 356 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: Do their due diligence. 357 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 4: They didn't ask their team are they ninety percent sure 358 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 4: that this is all going to be good? 359 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 3: And ultimately it. 360 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 4: Was you know, one tick box and a line of 361 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 4: software code that wasn't ticked now and that was the end. 362 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: Nevertheless, you know, that launch gave the industry the confidence 363 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: to start booking flights on Electron and really that's been 364 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: the story I think of the last decade. It's just 365 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: the sheer diversity of some of the missions that you've 366 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: been involved in. The Electron has been involved and some 367 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: of the key ones are recounted in the book, but 368 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: just incredible stuff, you know, like for instance, Varider, you know, 369 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: which the missions you've done with Varder, which is literally 370 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: manufacturing pharmaceuticals in space to see if they can give 371 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: characteristics that are going to improve medicines. You know, that's 372 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: just a fascinating one and still evolving as well. It's 373 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: still a relationship with and that whole area of science 374 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: is expanding as a result of what you've done. 375 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 376 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 4: I mean people know us as the rocket company, right 377 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 4: because the rocket always steals the show. But two thirds 378 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 4: of our businesses satellites and spacecraft and components and whatnot, 379 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 4: so you know, we've got to do the most amazing things. 380 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 4: I mean, the solar cells that were on the James, 381 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 4: We have telescope, rocket Lab cells. The Mars helicopter that 382 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 4: flew in the Mars surface some twenty times was you know, 383 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 4: the solar cells on top of that were rocket Labs 384 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: l of cells, and you know, these most the most 385 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 4: amazing missions and generally, you know a lot of the 386 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 4: flagship missions in the last twenty years has had all 387 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 4: had rocket Lab technology on board. So we we get 388 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 4: to play in you know, the coolest, coolest stuff and 389 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 4: the most demanding environments. You know, we've got a couple 390 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,400 Speaker 4: of satellites to escapade spacecraft that are on their way 391 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 4: to Mars here shortly, so you know, we'll have twenty 392 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,239 Speaker 4: percent of everything orbiting around Mars will be built by 393 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 4: rocket Lab once those two satellites arrived. So you know, 394 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 4: it's you back to your earlier point, Like it's it's 395 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 4: pretty easy to get excited about the work you do. 396 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: As you say that, you know the reach across literally 397 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: everything that's going into space, and part of that was 398 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: these quite shrewd acquisitions you made. And you can be 399 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: a point where a company goes away where you try 400 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: to integrate acquisitions. You've got a couple more just this 401 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: year that you've sealed, so you'll be doing that again. 402 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 2: But it seems to have worked quite well. 403 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: Bringing the culture off those quite specialist companies in space systems, 404 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: which is really the bulk of your revenue. Now bringing 405 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: them into the rocket Lab fold and culture, it seems 406 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: to have paid off really well. 407 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would say it's it's not good 408 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: like it's hard work. 409 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 4: And also, you know, the companies that we look to acquire, 410 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 4: they had to have two fundamental things right. They had 411 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 4: to have the best technology in the world mission success, 412 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 4: the most beautiful technologies, and. 413 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: The team had had to be able to be integrated 414 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: into Rocker Labe. 415 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 4: You know, we have at least half a dozen to 416 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 4: a dozen acquisition targets and companies that we're looking at 417 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 4: at any one time. But you can see by how 418 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 4: many we do, you know, how kind of type the 419 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 4: messures in the funnel that actually actually get through. And 420 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 4: you know the reason for those successes have been you know, 421 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 4: it hasn't been a massive culture shift to go from 422 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 4: what were their fundamental core principles and beliefs prior to 423 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 4: the acquisition. You know, as long as they map very 424 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 4: closely to Rocket Lab, then it tends to work. 425 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: So you're doing that acquisitions, integrating them, electrons, getting you know, 426 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: the process, getting better and better every time you launch, 427 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: doing interesting things with constellations and that sort of thing. 428 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: And then in the background you've got these really ambitious missions, 429 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: probably the most ambitious of which is recounted in the book, 430 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: the Capstone mission, the so called super maneuver. They're just 431 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: just take listeners through why that was so important to 432 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: Rocket Lab and why. Actually, all the engineers I talk to, 433 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,120 Speaker 1: they all talk about Capstone as one of the highlights 434 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: of their career at Rocket lad Well. 435 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 3: I would say it was the most ridiculous mission that 436 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 3: we ever did. You know. 437 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 4: We we we used an electron and a photon satellite 438 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 4: bus to send a small spacecraft NASA to the Moon. 439 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,479 Speaker 4: And I think up until we did it, everybody's you know, 440 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 4: the accepted belief is that if you want to go 441 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 4: to the Moon, you have to do that off a 442 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 4: very large rocket. And you know that that is you 443 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: know that that has been you know, the reality and history, 444 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 4: and you know, for the first time we took a 445 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 4: tiny little rocket and a tiny little spacecraft and delivered 446 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 4: that all the way to the Moon. So what that 447 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 4: meant is the performance in the you know, the engineering 448 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 4: margins had to be so incredibly tight that it was ridiculous, 449 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 4: and you know it was it was just an engineering marvel. 450 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 4: You know, we were we were measuring everything in grams. 451 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 4: There was it was just everything was down to the 452 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 4: slimmest of margins, and not just you know, not just 453 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 4: the you know, the margins are avaiable, but the whole 454 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 4: trajectory design. You know, we used this trajectory design to 455 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 4: slingshot ourselves around the Earth and slowly build up the 456 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 4: energy to ultimately do a translunar injection. So you know, 457 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 4: we're all go to the Earth and accelerated in a slingshot, 458 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 4: you know, seven times until we were put on a 459 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 4: path to the moon. 460 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: What's you know, really special I think about that mission 461 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: is just how you had to recalculate on the fly there, 462 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: respond to how you know things we're performing in space 463 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: and change the calculations literally overnight and then go on. 464 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 2: It terrifying sort of moment. But it worked. 465 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it did better than work. 466 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 4: Not only did deliver the payload exactly right down the 467 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 4: middle of the corridor that it needed to deliver, but 468 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 4: we went on with that spacecraft right out into deep space, 469 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 4: and for a while there we were looking like we 470 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 4: were going to end up doing the entire mission itself 471 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: because the NASA spacecraft. 472 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 3: Had you know a lot of issues in commissioning and 473 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 3: getting getting going to start with. 474 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 4: So we actually had a maneuver that we were going 475 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 4: to do after we'd separated off the spacecraft and we 476 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 4: were going to do our own kind of deep space 477 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 4: and Moon aflyby and stuff. But we had to hold 478 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 4: that maneuver because we were following the spacecraft on its 479 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 4: way to the Moon and NASA spacecraft had issues, so 480 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 4: we were kind of back up, back up mission in 481 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 4: case they weren't. We're able to get that spacecraft to work. 482 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 4: Thankfully they did, and you know, the mission was a 483 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 4: tremendous success. 484 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: And look that's progressing in terms of NASA putting a 485 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 1: space station around around the Moon and return to the Moon. 486 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 2: That is all on. 487 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: You've got other ambitions, you know obviously around MYZ you're 488 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: involved in missions there. Hopefully we'll be involved in bringing 489 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 1: those samples back from mys at some point. That's an 490 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: ongoing project that NASA is looking at. You've got interest 491 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: in Venus, that's a real passion project for you as well. 492 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: I guess, did Capstone really give you the confidence that, yes, 493 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: we can play beyond sending stuff into orbit, that we 494 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: can do interplanetary lunar missions. 495 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 496 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 4: And when you get it deep into deep space, you 497 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 4: have to deal with a whole lot of really nasty 498 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 4: radiation environments and you know, navigation becomes difficult. And so 499 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 4: you know, the Capstone mission really set us up to, 500 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 4: you know, to do things like the Mars missions that 501 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 4: we're doing here shortly, and other missions as well, where 502 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 4: you know, it's onto the ball game to go deep 503 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 4: space and inteplanetary, that's for sure. 504 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: So the missions roll on, Peter that the next big 505 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: milestone really is, it's been well flagged, is the launch 506 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: of your larger rocket, Neutron. You're mad at work preparing 507 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: for that at the moment. Your profile by the Wall 508 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: Street Journal recently, and you said, if you want to 509 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: build a big company, you've got to go big, and 510 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: that's the whole goal. But talk us through really how 511 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: you think Neutron stands to change the competitive dynamics out there, 512 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: which is really dominated by space X at the moment. 513 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 514 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 4: I mean, there's one really successful and dominant player and 515 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 4: medium plus lift and you know, having some competition in 516 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 4: the market for. 517 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 3: That, I think is very important. 518 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 4: That's what our customers are asking and demanding. So that's 519 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 4: where Neutron kind of scratches at it. And you know, 520 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 4: it's a thirteen thousand kilogram to aubit vehicle, reusable for stage, 521 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 4: and you know, it's a very unique looking vehicle. It 522 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 4: looks very different to every other rocket that's been built today. 523 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 4: That's because we've had the luxury of getting a do 524 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 4: over from all of the lessons we learned from Electron 525 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 4: and all the lessons others have learned from their own programs, 526 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 4: and really, you know, having a clean sheet of paper 527 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 4: to design something that's that's really really optimized. 528 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: And as we go into this lot of expectation, but 529 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: the share price has had an all time high in 530 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: credible I think as we speak about fifty seven or 531 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: fifty eight dollars US. So there's a lot of interest 532 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: in this company. There are tens of thousands of local investors. 533 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: You're at Parliament recently. I saw you speak there and 534 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: the industry was basically saying, you know that we want 535 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: to grow by a couple of billion dollars. 536 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 2: You said, why don't we make that? You know, two 537 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 2: hundred billion dollars. 538 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 1: There's a trillion dollar business out there that New Zealand 539 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: could take a big slice off. I guess it goes 540 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: back to you. If you want to be big, you 541 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: got to think big. 542 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 4: Well, that's right, that's right. I mean, you know you've 543 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 4: said it exactly right. I mean, you know the end 544 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 4: the industry is growing tremendously quickly and you know, depending 545 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 4: on whose report you want to read, it somewhere between 546 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 4: one point four and two trillion dollars. These are big numbers, 547 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 4: and you know there's there's no reason, you know, certainly 548 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 4: why New Zealand can't have a bigger piece. And you 549 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 4: know it's my job to make sure that we have 550 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 4: the biggest piece of that that part possible. 551 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean you still employ well over a thousand people 552 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: in New Zealand, yeah, something like that. 553 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 554 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: So it's still tough times unfortunately at the moment. But 555 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: one of the things you said there, which was remarkable, 556 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: as you know how many millionaires you made when you 557 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: listed the company. A lot of New Zealand people have 558 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: done incredibly well out of being on that journey. 559 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the end of the whole, whole point 560 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 4: here is to do cool things and create value. When 561 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,360 Speaker 4: you create value, you know that that's wonderful for everybody. 562 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 4: And you know, we've always incentivised our staff with with 563 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 4: with stock, and you know, it was always funny, you know, 564 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,479 Speaker 4: when we started issuing staff stock, it was it was 565 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 4: just sort of something to sticky coffee on, and nobody 566 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 4: have thought it'd be worth any value because of course 567 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 4: in New Zealand, you know, share options just really aren't 568 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 4: really a thing. And but yeah, as a result, you know, 569 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 4: I think there was something when we initially went public, 570 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 4: there was something like one hundred and fifty million years 571 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 4: in New Zealand that we had created just out of start. 572 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 4: And you know, there was at a ten dollar stock price. 573 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 4: So you know, there's a lot of people done done 574 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 4: really well, which is which is awesome because you know, 575 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 4: we rely on our shareholders. 576 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: We just got a ten exit. We just got to 577 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: do ten more rocket labs. And it sounds sounds easy, 578 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: but in the current environment, we sort of need a 579 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: bit of hope, don't We need to turn a corner, 580 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: and it's got to be driven by genuine growth in 581 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: the economy, not shifting around the deck chairs. 582 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean I'm incredibly excited. 583 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 4: I mean the only other thing I do outside Rocket 584 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 4: Lab is is sit on the investment committee for board 585 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 4: for Outset Ventures, which is a deep tech firm. And 586 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 4: you know, so lucky I get to see so many 587 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 4: New Zealand's deep tech startups, and so I wouldn't get 588 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 4: too I wouldn't get too down in the dumps. There's 589 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 4: I can tell you there's a few rocket Labs coming, 590 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 4: and you know, even just look at Holt there's another 591 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 4: billion dollar unicorn created. 592 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 2: So incredible coming. 593 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, just raise one hundred and sixty five million. So 594 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right, when you know, when I get down, 595 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: I go and talk to startup founders because they don't 596 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: care about the state of the economy. They care about 597 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: as you did twenty years ago, setting out to. 598 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 2: Change the world. 599 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 3: Exactly right. 600 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: Thanks Peter, great to talk to you. 601 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: Good luck for new Tron, and congratulations on the upcoming 602 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: twentieth anniversary. 603 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being on the business of tech. 604 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 3: Thanks better appreciate it. 605 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: So, Sir Peter Beck, there getting Neutron ready for launch. 606 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: Hopefully that will happen before year's end at Launch Complex 607 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: three at Wallops Island, Virginia, where the pad is ready 608 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: to go once the rocket is. It was a fascinating 609 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: experience writing the book, interviewing the engineers who designed the 610 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: Rutherford engines, the carbon fiber experts who went from building 611 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: America's cup yachts to building rocket bodies, the mission control 612 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: directors who are responsible for launches. The yes, no crucial 613 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: question are we ready to go? Hugely pressured jobs, but 614 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: they are amazing professionals, the satellite and spacecraft designers, some 615 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: of whom joined Rocket Lab as a result of those 616 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: acquisitions that were made. People like Vinod Kossla, the Silicon 617 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: Valley venture capitalist who gave Sir Peter the first substantial 618 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: funding injection, and even Stephen Joyce, the former government minister 619 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: who helped clear the way for launchers to take place 620 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: here in New Zealand. You know, when all it said 621 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: and done, you can rave about the innovation that happened 622 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: at Rocket Lab and the pioneering things they did with 623 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: three D printing and the carbon fiber and all of 624 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. There was a bit of luck 625 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: involved along the way, but more than any other New. 626 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 2: Zealand company I've covered in the last twenty years. 627 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: Rocket Lab really embodies that classic quote from Sir Ernest Rutherford, 628 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: our famous Nobel winner. We don't have the money, so 629 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: we have to think paraphrasing what he said. Even now, 630 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: twenty years in, Peter Beck has approached the development of 631 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: Neutron with the same sort of lean mentality he did 632 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: with the one rocket all those years ago. He's doing 633 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: Neutron for a fraction off the cost that you would 634 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: associate with the typical medium lift development program. You know, 635 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: his attitude still basically his hackiness, be done as cheaply 636 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: and efficiently as possible. If he can afford something, go 637 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: back to the drawing board and figure out how to 638 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: do it, make something up that will work in its place. 639 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: That's a discipline that was baked into him from his 640 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: early days, I think building his own rocket bikes in 641 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: the design work he did at Fisher and pikel It's 642 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: a good way to run a company, particularly a listed 643 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: company which is having to report every quarter to the 644 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: public to shareholders. It's something that I think maybe the 645 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence industry could learn from at the moment, as 646 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: it throws eyewatering amounts of money at AI hardware, training, 647 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: large language models, even securing tech talents, spending hundreds of 648 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: millions of dollars on individual engineers. We have too many 649 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: rich companies with frankly too much cash at their disposal 650 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: going after this area of technology. 651 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 2: It's going to take a. 652 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: Few more deep seek mode humans where people without the 653 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: same resources are forced to find a better way of 654 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 1: doing things to bring some sanity back to that whole space. 655 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: And that's really what rocket Lab has done throughout over 656 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: twenty years of innovation. 657 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 2: They still have that in their DNA. 658 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 1: We have to be really efficient and lean and cost 659 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: effective in doing this, and that forces innovation that forces 660 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,719 Speaker 1: them to come up with better ways of doing things. Anyway, 661 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: thanks to sir Peter for coming on once again, and 662 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. If you want to find 663 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: out more about the launch of rocket Lab, go to 664 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: my website rocketlab book dot com. There are links there 665 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: where you can order a copy. It's also now in bookstores, 666 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: which is pretty exciting for me to see my book 667 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: on the shelves. If you're listening to the Business of 668 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: teching your podcast app, please do leave a rating and 669 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: share the episode with your friends and check out the 670 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: show notes too at. 671 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: Business desk dot co dot nz. 672 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: In the podcast section, you'll find my weekly reading list there. 673 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: I'll catch you again next week for another episode of 674 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: the Business of Take