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Speaker 1: In the ongoing mystery that is the Treaty Principal's Bill.

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Speaker 1: We got a whacky back and forward from the PM

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Speaker 1: yesterday that will deal with after seven thirty. But we

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Speaker 1: also seemingly got a change of wording from the architect.

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Speaker 1: Article two previously said apparently the New Zealand government will

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Speaker 1: honor all New Zealanders and the chieftainship of their land

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Speaker 1: and property. That's now going to be changed the former

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Speaker 1: Treaty negotiations. Minister Chrispin license with us. Chris, good morning

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Speaker 1: to you as a man who's been in politics and

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Speaker 1: now looks from some sort of distance, what do you

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Speaker 1: make of this whole thing it's as it's unfolded.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just think it's most unfortunate. Really. It takes

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Speaker 2: me back to when I was on my first term

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Speaker 2: in Parliament. Helen Clark and Michael Cullen agreed with Winston

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Speaker 2: that Walerton could introduce a donation of the principles of

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Speaker 2: the Treaty Bill and they supported it through the first reading.

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Speaker 2: I was on the Select Committee. It was rubbish, gibberish

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Speaker 2: really and died natural deaths and so I think this

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Speaker 2: one is destined to suffer the same faith.

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Speaker 1: Is this the problem? Does this go back to Christopher

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Speaker 1: Luxon in agreeing with it? And because you could if

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Speaker 1: we could see this unfolding the way it hats, couldn't we?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, twenty years on from Doug's effort, where a

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Speaker 2: different country, and whereas people just yawned when New Zealand

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Speaker 2: Firsts Members Bill was introduced in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: I think it was people They've moved on such a

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Speaker 2: long way. This sort of thing aggravates people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but what about the broad based argument that it's

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Speaker 1: worth a debate, that a debate is not to be

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Speaker 1: shied away from.

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Speaker 2: Well, I would have thought for the ACT Party, the

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Speaker 2: biggest debate that we should be having is how do

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Speaker 2: we not become an Argentina in twenty fifty And it's

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Speaker 2: tailor made for ACT to talk about greater productivity, less regulation,

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Speaker 2: a leaner, smarter government of other sorts of things David

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Speaker 2: should be concentrating on. That's why ACT was founded by

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Speaker 2: Roger Douglas.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, so this goes to Parliament, it heads off to

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Speaker 1: Select Committee. Your pick would be it dies at that

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Speaker 1: particular point. Well, and Simo's argument as he can persuade people.

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Speaker 1: Is that even slightly possible?

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Speaker 2: Do you think I'll get a life?

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Speaker 1: Good on? You're nice to talk to you, Chrispin Layson

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Speaker 1: for treaty negotiations, Minister. I like people that come on

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Speaker 1: and tell it like it is.

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Speaker 2: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.