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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talk, said B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and a wide range of podcasts now on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Take an.

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Speaker 2: It's ard, it is out, the test is over.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't just smoke beauty.

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Speaker 4: It is out and.

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Speaker 3: Here he goes.

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Speaker 5: This delivery has in uny uses to go.

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Speaker 1: On the front foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Cody,

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Speaker 1: powered by News Talk, said B and iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 5: Hello on the front foot. Nice to have you with

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Speaker 5: us once again. A World Test Championship has been decided.

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Speaker 5: Another one who's started two games, completed two in progress

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Speaker 5: already and has England's imposing betting already sealed the upcome

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Speaker 5: of a Test series with India. There's too much being

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Speaker 5: demanded of Jaspert Boomerang and the old cliche must be true.

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Speaker 2: Catches were matches this week.

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Speaker 5: Also, we're going to be joined by a prominent English

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Speaker 5: cricket writer very shortly who's written an unrivaled history of

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Speaker 5: the Test game, Tim Wigmore Coming up shortly, but coming

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Speaker 5: up right now, Jeremy Cody. Before we hear from a

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Speaker 5: Test match of real quality. That's what we want from

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Speaker 5: Test cricket, isn't it? The full five days down to

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Speaker 5: the wire, battle hardened teams and won a little better

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Speaker 5: than the art.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, gooday, was what a match it was? How often

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Speaker 6: do we get to a five day Test? Was it?

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Speaker 3: And it goes to six thirty on the last day.

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Speaker 6: We've been talking about the shrinking of Test matches to

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Speaker 6: three days and a bit that this one certainly went

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Speaker 6: the distance. Although you felt on the last day the

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Speaker 6: way England were playing, that they had taken control of

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Speaker 6: the match, didn't you seven seven centuries in the game

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Speaker 6: and in ninety nine losing.

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Speaker 3: Side got five of them. Extraordinary?

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Speaker 6: Isn't it that you get five hundreds from your batsmen

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Speaker 6: and you lose the match over seventeen hundred Well about

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Speaker 6: seventeen hundred runs I reckon in the game, and that's

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Speaker 6: over three sixty a day. So you can see, you

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Speaker 6: can see a the pitch was pretty good. Was the

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Speaker 6: bowling good enough? Probably not one stood out of course,

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Speaker 6: But in the end I thought that when we started

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Speaker 6: the game, I thought that the Indian bowlers would be stronger.

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Speaker 6: But it didn't prove out proved to be that way,

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Speaker 6: and that was the England bowlers who were They looked.

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Speaker 4: A little bit like.

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Speaker 6: Stokes and the replacements or the understudies. Sounds like a

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Speaker 6: pop group, doesn't it. In the sixties Stokes in the

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Speaker 6: understudies and it really they came through in the end

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Speaker 6: and claimed wickets like Tongue did and cast did, and

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Speaker 6: so they overall were the better bowling attack.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and that was proven.

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Speaker 5: Will assess that Test match and look at the finer

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Speaker 5: points of it in just a moment. But we're just

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Speaker 5: going to be joined by English journalist who writes for

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Speaker 5: the Daily Telegraph, Tim.

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Speaker 1: Wigmore, Brian Waddell, Jeremy Coney on the front foot.

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Speaker 5: There are a number of people in the cricket world

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Speaker 5: who you feel like standing to attention and saluting for

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Speaker 5: service above and beyond. One of those is cricket journalist

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Speaker 5: Tim Wigmore, who writes for The Telegraph, and it's released

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Speaker 5: what could almost be called the ultimate cricket book, Test

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Speaker 5: Cricket Are History, nearly six hundred pages, Goodness Me described

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Speaker 5: by Mike Atherton as a vibrant global history of the

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Speaker 5: oldest form of the game. We have the pleasure of

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Speaker 5: Tim Wigmore joining on the front foot this week, and Tim,

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Speaker 5: thanks very much for your time. I just wonder in

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Speaker 5: terms of motivation for the book, what was this as

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Speaker 5: someone to approach such a mess of task because it

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Speaker 5: just doesn't happen overnight, does it.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Brian, thank you for having me. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so the idea came. I remember it started. So it

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Speaker 4: was March twenty twenty intri lnchor for what turned up

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Speaker 4: to be in the evening before that tour was called

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Speaker 4: off because of COVID, and I was having dinner with

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Speaker 4: Simon Wilde from the Times through wrote a very good

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Speaker 4: history of England test cicket a few years before, and

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Speaker 4: I was saying, you know, have you thought about doing

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Speaker 4: like this book? But for yeah, all of class took it.

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Speaker 4: And he said you have to be mad to do that.

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Speaker 4: I thought, maybe I am mad. And then five years later,

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Speaker 4: here we are.

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Speaker 5: Well it's a huge achievement, it is there a real

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Speaker 5: feeling of satisfaction for you.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's been nice. It feels a bit bit surreal,

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Speaker 4: like you sort of working on it for so so

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Speaker 4: long and you know, you it was a great, great

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Speaker 4: fun to do. But also there were obviously times when

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Speaker 4: you're like, how do you get for it from eady

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Speaker 4: to do here? And I think Yeah, over three hundred

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Speaker 4: books in you know, with fifty to fifty people. So

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Speaker 4: to have that all come out is yeah, it's a

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Speaker 4: nice feeling. It's little strange, but very nice.

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Speaker 5: It's not the first book you've written, of course, but

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Speaker 5: I mean this is a This is a real mess

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Speaker 5: of exercise, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, first I've done by myself though, so yeah, it

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Speaker 4: was a real endeavor. So yeah, five years, a lot

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Speaker 4: of late nights, early mornings and stuff and yeah real yeah,

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Speaker 4: so interesting and yeah I learned a huge amount of

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Speaker 4: doing it, so it was a lot of fun as well.

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Speaker 5: You start off the introduction is to a seegment called

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Speaker 5: the Cruelest Game, and you hit between the eyes immediately

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Speaker 5: test cricket is the most brutal game. Where did that

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Speaker 5: first line come from? Because that's where you grab people

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Speaker 5: from start off, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of the first sign, as you know, is the

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Speaker 4: most important.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 4: I think you try and explain to people what you

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Speaker 4: know who maybe aren't in the game, what it is

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Speaker 4: about to cricket, and I think it is that the

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Speaker 4: relentances of it, the mental, the physical strain, and also

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Speaker 4: like for an underdog, it is so so hard to

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Speaker 4: win a Test match. You think of of football and actually, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you can win a game one nil with a lucky

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Speaker 4: deflection and off side and whatever. But test rickey, you

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Speaker 4: need to be there better for you know, for five days,

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Speaker 4: for four innings. It's so so much. So it's sort

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Speaker 4: of the sense that yeah, you can, you can do

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Speaker 4: fie gravity for so long and so yeah, I think

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Speaker 4: in lots of sports you can have a lucky victory.

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Speaker 4: I don't think you can have a lucky Test match

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Speaker 4: win because there's so so much that goes into it

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Speaker 4: and you kind of thet any wings that can be exposed.

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Speaker 4: So in that sense, it's very cruel, and you look

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Speaker 4: at the history actually in I mean you see actually

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Speaker 4: is a good example of this, many many great great

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Speaker 4: players who actually lose most Tests they play because either

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Speaker 4: if you're Richard Hadley or whatever, there's only so much

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Speaker 4: you can do, to be honest, and that's the things

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Speaker 4: that you need. You need so many parts to come

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Speaker 4: together to actually win a Test match. And the aqlely

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Speaker 4: you might be a great batsman, if you haven't got

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Speaker 4: the caverge to take twenty wickets, you're just not going

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Speaker 4: to win any Test matches.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you're right. Some of our greatest players either won

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Speaker 5: only one Test match or never one Test matches, and.

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Speaker 4: Of course who are celebrated in rightly. So that was

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Speaker 4: for a nil Neil draw in England.

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Speaker 5: And the amount of cricket that they played. They were

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Speaker 5: three day games, weren't they? And so the overs bold

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Speaker 5: you were talking about one hundred and thirty overs a day.

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Speaker 5: I mean, they're just the sort of things that I

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Speaker 5: guess come out of looking into a book like this.

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Speaker 5: The World Test Championship final was Test Match number two thousand,

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Speaker 5: five hundred and eighty five. There's been a couple more

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Speaker 5: since then, now that the new World Test Championship is

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Speaker 5: up and running.

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Speaker 2: There must be a lot of stories that you hear.

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Speaker 2: You do a lot of reading.

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Speaker 5: Discipline then becomes a very important part about what you're going.

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Speaker 5: How do you decide what goes in and what doesn't.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is very much This is a book

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Speaker 4: of stories really, So it's a book about the players,

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Speaker 4: matches and politics that have have shaped the game. So

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Speaker 4: matches are really important. I go deep on and there's

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Speaker 4: hundreds and hundreds of matches that I don't cover. So

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Speaker 4: this is this is designed to be. There's been stats

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Speaker 4: post test that hasn't really been a narrative history, which

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Speaker 4: is what this tries to be. So it is a

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Speaker 4: but hopefully you can It'll take you a little bit,

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Speaker 4: but hopefully you can read it from A to Z.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I was thinking about the turning points, the

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Speaker 4: key moments that shape the game, and he has so

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Speaker 4: many assorts of that, I mean one of them with

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Speaker 4: New Zealand and other countries. Actually it's amazing looking back,

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Speaker 4: how rare it is actually, especially antis cricket for a

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Speaker 4: Test team to actually have the genuinely strongest team that

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Speaker 4: was available from that country. You know, you look at

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Speaker 4: the history of New Zealand, Earl Zeine, you look at you know,

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Speaker 4: Stuey Dnster, Martin Donnald, these great great players and they

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Speaker 4: barely play for you in because at that point you

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Speaker 4: basically need to leave New Zealand to become a professional.

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Speaker 4: So you'll almost have a situation where lots of New

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Speaker 4: Zealand tours to England. It is almost like if you

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Speaker 4: do well or your prize will be to get a

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Speaker 4: contract in countercricket or leagu cricket in England and then

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Speaker 4: your you'll stop playing for New Zealand. So it's there's

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Speaker 4: this is actually quite sad back to our New Zealand cricket.

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Speaker 4: And that's in other countries as well. You know, West

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Speaker 4: Cindy's have a lot of tools in nineteen thirty swing

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Speaker 4: when they're the best players are playing in lancashirele cricket

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Speaker 4: not playing for West Indies. So it's funny when people say, oh,

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Speaker 4: there's new cluby country thing, it's such a new problem.

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Speaker 4: It's like, well, it's no, it's not a new problem

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Speaker 4: that it's a new aspects of the problem. But this

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Speaker 4: problem has always really existed in task cricket history.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. Jerry Dempster is an interesting one because I never

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Speaker 5: saw him play, but he coached me long after he'd retired,

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Speaker 5: and there are a number around about my era that

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Speaker 5: he coached. He had a net at the basein reserve

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Speaker 5: where he had people. I was invited because he was

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Speaker 5: a friend of my father's. I wasn't any good, but

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Speaker 5: it was nice to have somebody like that coach me.

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Speaker 5: And you know, those are the people who have developed

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Speaker 5: New Zealand cricket. And you give New Zealand cricket, it's

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Speaker 5: fear deal in one of the thirty five chapters that

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Speaker 5: you've had to write, and of course there are things

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Speaker 5: you have to include, and the one I haven't been

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Speaker 5: able to read yet, I've I've got to chapter four.

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Speaker 2: That's not a bad effort in the short space of time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Breadman, bodyline and the Invincibles. There there must be

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Speaker 5: plenty of stories about breadmen. Are there any new ones

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Speaker 5: that or do you have to sort through them to

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Speaker 5: make a judgment on them, because I've been in Chris

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Speaker 5: Boxers in Australia where breadman stories are rife. You know,

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Speaker 5: everybody's got a Breadman story.

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Speaker 4: No, no, absolutely, So to look at him from a

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Speaker 4: kind of fresh perspective was a change, but it was

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Speaker 4: really interesting. One of the i mean one of the

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Speaker 4: amazing things really is just the way he bats, which

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Speaker 4: he basically has his bat he he brings his bat

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Speaker 4: up facing to gully really and that's seen as not

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Speaker 4: the right way to bat, as if he's doing something wrong.

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Speaker 4: And this is the guy, the best ever by a mile,

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Speaker 4: and yet incredibly no one really replicates it. And in fact,

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Speaker 4: if you look at it the way he bats very closely,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think Steve Smith is one of the

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Speaker 4: close ever to batting Bradman and help. Yeah, Steve Smith

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Speaker 4: is also absolutely incredible. So there's something about where the

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Speaker 4: history of cricket often is quite conservative in terms of

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Speaker 4: there's a way to bat and bowl and actually often

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Speaker 4: see with England, England tends to reject these kind of

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Speaker 4: new methods, so the new methods often come from from

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Speaker 4: other countries. So actually that the google actually did develop

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Speaker 4: in England, then it was popularized in South Africa. Oddly,

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Speaker 4: for example, you have the Bradman method and s on

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Speaker 4: reverse swing comes from elsewhere, so that's quite interesting as well.

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Speaker 4: But that the idea of this kind of right way

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Speaker 4: to bat, you know, I think the history of test

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Speaker 4: ticket it shows you there is no right way to

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Speaker 4: bat and actually individuality doing what feels natural. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot to be said for that, and sometimes we can

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Speaker 4: be too die didactically telling people this is how you

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Speaker 4: bat with your elbow and everything, and everyone's a little

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Speaker 4: bit different because your bound to a different your height

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Speaker 4: is different, everything.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that probably sort of highlights where the game

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Speaker 5: is at the moment, the changes that have come through

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Speaker 5: the game over the period of time. There are players

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Speaker 5: doing things now that they would never have thought of

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Speaker 5: doing fifty one hundred years ago. And the shots that

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Speaker 5: they are playing, the changes are just adding to the

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Speaker 5: fascination of the game of cricket. Because you say the

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Speaker 5: game is about stats. Here it's a game about stories,

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Speaker 5: and it's a game about people and you know, human

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Speaker 5: approaches to things, and some people are stars, yet they

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Speaker 5: don't do things the right way that we think.

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Speaker 4: They ye'll be doing them. But actually looking at the history,

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Speaker 4: actually it's amazing. Some innovations that I thought were much

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Speaker 4: more recent happened a long time earlier. You know. The

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Speaker 4: first story of the ramp I could find was Leary Constant,

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Speaker 4: the greatest sinnis around in the nineteen thirties, so that

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Speaker 4: there's clear records of him playing basically a ramp shop

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Speaker 4: at Lord's. But obviously, you know, it's not ben't become

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Speaker 4: popularized until you know, the twenty twenties. But yeah, there

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Speaker 4: are things there are reverse weeep really starts backs on

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Speaker 4: nineteen fifties. Actually we think of that as much more,

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Speaker 4: but no, so in some cases, actually the history people

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Speaker 4: were doing these things, but they're not kind of replicated,

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Speaker 4: And there's all these mysteries like reverse swing as well,

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Speaker 4: where we think of this as kind of yes, it

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Speaker 4: is a Pakistan is Pakistan who popularized it in really

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Speaker 4: the nineteen eighties nineteen nineties with Wazi Waka and Nimraan

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Speaker 4: and so on. But it actually it is happening. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's happening in Australia the nineteen sixties for example. But

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Speaker 4: they might call it, in fact, they call it. They

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Speaker 4: said the bulls going Irish is what they said when

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Speaker 4: it was reversing on the MCG on those sort of

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Speaker 4: abrasive pictures. So a lot of these things and I

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Speaker 4: think one of the reasons what you get these innovations

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Speaker 4: that start and then they kind of die is because

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Speaker 4: you don't without video footage and that are gaining that

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Speaker 4: well documented, these things can sort of die. And actually

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Speaker 4: that's one of the challenges right in the book, that

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Speaker 4: actually there's a lot of stuff that's not documented all

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Speaker 4: that well. And yeah, New Zealanders, well, you know there's

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Speaker 4: some great you know, lots of great stuff on New Zealand,

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Speaker 4: but there's also sort of probably with some gaps there

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Speaker 4: as well, and even yeah, with the mon stuff. Actually

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Speaker 4: it's great through some interviews, So you're talking to people

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Speaker 4: like Kwim's and Ross Taylor and some on was. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that helped to bring that story to life.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but you also there are some people who couldn't talk,

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Speaker 5: of course because they're long gone. But you've you've obviously

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Speaker 5: read a lot of material. I see you quote certain people. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: just little clips that you've taken from books, which means

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Speaker 5: you have to read a lot of stuff too. You

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Speaker 5: just don't have that fall out of the sky.

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Speaker 4: Do you No. I've read over three hundred books as

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Speaker 4: part of this, so it was a lot of reading.

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Speaker 4: I would say the old cricket books are a lot

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Speaker 4: shorter though, so it's not like I think the longest

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Speaker 4: book is Steve Wards, which weighs at one point eight kilograms.

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Speaker 4: I did not read all of that, but but some

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Speaker 4: of the old books you can rifle through them in

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Speaker 4: an hour or two and get some great nuggets to

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Speaker 4: kind of to feed in.

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Speaker 5: What have you got a coffee table edition of your book?

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Speaker 5: A great big one where you can shouldn't have coffee

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Speaker 5: and open or is that going to be a little

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Speaker 5: but too heavy?

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Speaker 4: Ah?

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Speaker 5: That child?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'd say the book in itself is a coffee table.

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Speaker 4: But hopefully you know, it is definitely a book that,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you love cricket, you'll be able to

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Speaker 4: read from from start to finish. And actually, I think

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Speaker 4: Cricket it does show the cricket's wider importance. Obviously it's

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Speaker 4: a very silly game with a bat and a ball,

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Speaker 4: but it does have a much broader importance for you know,

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Speaker 4: for building nations, you know, class, race, and so actually

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Speaker 4: to sort of tease out those aspects was really really interesting.

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Speaker 4: Cricket is a mirror to society, and sometimes that even

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Speaker 4: helps shape broader things. You know, talk of West Indies.

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Speaker 4: When Frank Warre becomes the first permanent black captain in

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty, you know, that actually has a resonance far,

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Speaker 4: far beyond cricket. For example, obviously So Africa's banned for

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Speaker 4: a part, you know, during apartheid from nineteen seventy that

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Speaker 4: is so so significant, and you get all this funny

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Speaker 4: you know, these incredible stories sort of about Badla. Actually

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Speaker 4: when so when Nelson Mandela is released from robmin Isle

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Speaker 4: in prisoner, one of his first things he asked is

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Speaker 4: Don Bradman still alive?

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Speaker 5: Goodness mee and dealing with dead of course that you

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Speaker 5: have to deal with the professional game, money which is

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Speaker 5: the overriding factor, and tiss cricket these days, and politics.

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Speaker 5: All those sorts of things have to be incorporated. Not

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Speaker 5: easy to do when it's a cricket book, but that

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Speaker 5: part of the game, aren't they.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that absolutely, they're part of the stories. So in

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Speaker 4: England for example, yeah to nineteen fifty two, they have

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Speaker 4: amateur captains and you basically have this device. You have

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Speaker 4: professionals who are paid to play, and you have amateurs

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Speaker 4: who are unpaid to play. And often the amateurs so

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Speaker 4: the amatters are kind of from very posh background, sort

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Speaker 4: of often called aristocrats. They're often they're not very good

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Speaker 4: at cricket. So I was. I looked actually in the

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Speaker 4: first ten in the Ashes tours to Australia at the

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Speaker 4: mcc run when they captain by an amateur, so fifty

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Speaker 4: test matches and the total average buying and captains was

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Speaker 4: twenty two. So basically on average their captain wasn't even

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Speaker 4: worth place in the side because they were so obsessed

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Speaker 4: with picking the right sort of person in common and

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Speaker 4: they ended up, you know, weakning their side as a result.

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Speaker 4: And actually New Zealand have this thing where New Zealand

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Speaker 4: has this kind of up to thing as well, where

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Speaker 4: they they frown upon players who are professionals in England basically,

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Speaker 4: and they're quite stubborn about not picking their guys, these

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Speaker 4: guys who then play test cricket even when they're only

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Speaker 4: available for a few Test matches a year. So actually

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Speaker 4: New Zealand for the first probably thirty thirty forty years

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Speaker 4: of Test cricket often don't pick their strongest possible side

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Speaker 4: because a lot of the guys who go and play

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Speaker 4: in county cricket they decide we're not going to pick

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Speaker 4: you at all, rather than just say pick you in

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Speaker 4: the home someone and you can return. And actually West

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Speaker 4: Indies have a similar dynamic in terms of their players

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Speaker 4: go to things very professional, but they're actually much more

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Speaker 4: flexible in picking these guys when they are available and

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Speaker 4: if it's not the whole time. And that's actually a

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Speaker 4: reason why we Cindy's start a lot better in test

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Speaker 4: cricket than New Zealand do because they basically get test

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Speaker 4: the same time and so you know, it takes un

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Speaker 4: twenty six years for their first their first victory and

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Speaker 4: it's quite a long, a long road to get there,

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Speaker 4: and he's in and not always helping them themselves.

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Speaker 5: Actually no, and you ask the players if they're any

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Speaker 5: around from from those days. They basically got two and

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Speaker 5: six meal money. They didn't get anything else. They didn't

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Speaker 5: get paid much to play for the game. They used

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Speaker 5: to get their gear from you know, a garage down

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Speaker 5: in christ Hitch where the game was basically administered from,

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Speaker 5: and that was the that was the clothing that they

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Speaker 5: got just on the.

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Speaker 4: Even with the storry with with Glenn Turner in nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 4: he's often not playing for New Zealand because he's only

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Speaker 4: molways a professional. So it's a perennial problem that I

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Speaker 4: have had. And then really you have from for about

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Speaker 4: two thousand and two you get players who are genuine

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Speaker 4: pro and that's a huge fact in New Zealand's rights

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Speaker 4: because actually is incredible you look at he's in West

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Speaker 4: Indy's that test because actually they're almost the mirror opposite.

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Speaker 4: So West Cindy's far better is in until two thousands

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Speaker 4: and he's e have been far better since. And actually

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Speaker 4: one of the stories of the book actually New Zealand

388
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Speaker 4: has you know, actually gone from being very low key

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Speaker 4: test side and kind of under the radar and actually

390
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Speaker 4: not often not that effective. Apart from the nineteen eighties

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Speaker 4: team which Hade and Martin Crow actually you know, since

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Speaker 4: two thousand, especially since twenty thirteen, they've been a really

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Speaker 4: a strong, really strong Test testination and that is a

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Speaker 4: great story.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and that was hardlight of course by the series

396
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Speaker 5: win over India, which everybody here is proud of. The

397
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Speaker 5: future of Test cricket is something that we talk about.

398
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Speaker 5: I've been reading articles over a long period of time.

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Speaker 5: Everybody says it's no longer viable, but the game still survives,

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Speaker 5: and I'm sure it will survive if there's a will

401
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Speaker 5: for it to survive. How do you see the future

402
00:20:00,013 --> 00:20:03,013
Speaker 5: of the game. Tradition is important and the tradition has

403
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Speaker 5: been retained in Test cricket, and to me that is

404
00:20:05,813 --> 00:20:08,773
Speaker 5: part of the significance. But it's all about year gear,

405
00:20:08,893 --> 00:20:09,213
Speaker 5: wasn't it.

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00:20:10,493 --> 00:20:12,573
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I say a few things on that. Firstly,

407
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Speaker 4: the history of Test cricket is the history of worrying

408
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Speaker 4: about the future of Test cricket, right, So, you know,

409
00:20:18,053 --> 00:20:20,973
Speaker 4: looking back from researching this, the first reference I could

410
00:20:21,013 --> 00:20:24,413
Speaker 4: find to players they just pay. They just play for

411
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Speaker 4: the money now, not the badge on the shirt. The

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00:20:26,813 --> 00:20:29,733
Speaker 4: first reference I could find to that was eighteen eighty four.

413
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Speaker 4: So there's a certain strand where things have always been

414
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Speaker 4: getting worse in Test cricket and people have had these

415
00:20:35,013 --> 00:20:36,693
Speaker 4: worries and they haven't always come true. So have to

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Speaker 4: remember that. Secondly, actually test cricket is a bit of

417
00:20:41,213 --> 00:20:44,133
Speaker 4: a myth, like it's not the conservative sport that we

418
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Speaker 4: think it is. Actually Test cricket has evolved so so much.

419
00:20:46,933 --> 00:20:49,533
Speaker 4: Remember used to have three a combination of three day

420
00:20:49,573 --> 00:20:52,293
Speaker 4: tests and timeless tests. We've had overs four or five

421
00:20:52,453 --> 00:20:55,653
Speaker 4: six bars and eight balls, we have day night tests. Now,

422
00:20:55,733 --> 00:21:00,813
Speaker 4: we've had helmets, come a huge change, Uncovered pictures now

423
00:21:00,853 --> 00:21:03,453
Speaker 4: now now covered pitches now, we have the World Test Championship.

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Speaker 4: The number of Test Nations have gone from two to twelve.

425
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Speaker 4: So the game actually has evolved and that it's been

426
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Speaker 4: actually a part of why it's said around it it's

427
00:21:10,293 --> 00:21:12,573
Speaker 4: a brilliant game, but it's also it has it has

428
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Speaker 4: evolved with the times and in terms of the future.

429
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Speaker 4: For me, actually, the World Test Championship, which obviously New

430
00:21:18,293 --> 00:21:20,333
Speaker 4: zeal Than one and the very first edition of had

431
00:21:20,333 --> 00:21:22,373
Speaker 4: to have talked to Ross Tail about that lovely story.

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Speaker 4: He he woke up the next day and he was

433
00:21:25,253 --> 00:21:27,653
Speaker 4: still in his white which sort of showed how much

434
00:21:27,693 --> 00:21:29,893
Speaker 4: that that meant him. That was a great, a great story.

435
00:21:31,013 --> 00:21:32,653
Speaker 4: But I think for me the worldis champishp is so

436
00:21:32,653 --> 00:21:35,493
Speaker 4: so important because you need to you know, often in

437
00:21:35,493 --> 00:21:37,973
Speaker 4: in the very Anglo centric in terms of everything's fine,

438
00:21:38,133 --> 00:21:40,453
Speaker 4: but actually you need to give all countries the chance

439
00:21:40,453 --> 00:21:42,453
Speaker 4: to roots the pinnacle and the fact the Waters Championship.

440
00:21:42,493 --> 00:21:44,693
Speaker 4: Well we've had three additions, you know. One we've had

441
00:21:44,813 --> 00:21:46,453
Speaker 4: Kin Williams and the lift the trophy. One we've had

442
00:21:46,453 --> 00:21:48,773
Speaker 4: ten the boomerlifts in the trophy. So we've had three

443
00:21:49,013 --> 00:21:53,013
Speaker 4: two of the kind of non big three economic powers

444
00:21:53,213 --> 00:21:55,293
Speaker 4: I Australian and in the till two of those country

445
00:21:55,293 --> 00:21:57,613
Speaker 4: two country outside that of won the Worlter Championship, which

446
00:21:57,653 --> 00:21:59,293
Speaker 4: is brilliant. So for me, that's a really big part

447
00:21:59,333 --> 00:22:01,653
Speaker 4: of the solution. The other thing I would look at is,

448
00:22:02,013 --> 00:22:05,213
Speaker 4: you know, actually five day tests were not I think

449
00:22:05,253 --> 00:22:07,453
Speaker 4: before World War Two there's only been ten to five

450
00:22:07,533 --> 00:22:09,533
Speaker 4: day tests. Ever, so this idea that's always been five

451
00:22:09,613 --> 00:22:11,813
Speaker 4: days is complete nonsense. It is not true at all,

452
00:22:12,293 --> 00:22:14,533
Speaker 4: and I would now look at the pacer of play

453
00:22:15,173 --> 00:22:18,333
Speaker 4: and the Test cricket is on. The picture is probably

454
00:22:18,653 --> 00:22:20,573
Speaker 4: more exciting than it ever has been. But I would

455
00:22:20,613 --> 00:22:22,853
Speaker 4: look now and say, okay, I think we can have

456
00:22:22,853 --> 00:22:25,253
Speaker 4: four day tests. And one of the reasons I think

457
00:22:25,253 --> 00:22:28,293
Speaker 4: we can do that is it it saves money, and

458
00:22:28,333 --> 00:22:30,373
Speaker 4: it saves money and time which we can then use

459
00:22:30,373 --> 00:22:32,933
Speaker 4: to actually have more Test matches. So New Zealand is

460
00:22:32,973 --> 00:22:35,693
Speaker 4: a great example. New Zealand have a diet really of

461
00:22:35,733 --> 00:22:38,293
Speaker 4: two match Test series and two matches. Test series are

462
00:22:38,293 --> 00:22:40,933
Speaker 4: pretty unsatisfying. Obviously with the multi champs they're a bit

463
00:22:41,013 --> 00:22:43,453
Speaker 4: more narrative, but they are pretty chromic. So for me,

464
00:22:43,933 --> 00:22:46,253
Speaker 4: like when New Zealan plays in Africa, that should having

465
00:22:46,493 --> 00:22:49,253
Speaker 4: three tests times four days each would be so much

466
00:22:49,333 --> 00:22:52,013
Speaker 4: better than having two tests times five days each. So

467
00:22:52,173 --> 00:22:53,573
Speaker 4: for me, I'd like to have a system where we

468
00:22:53,613 --> 00:22:55,813
Speaker 4: have the World Test Championship. I'd like to have you

469
00:22:55,893 --> 00:22:58,413
Speaker 4: currently have everyone play six series and that three at home,

470
00:22:58,493 --> 00:23:00,893
Speaker 4: three away, which is okay, but the series are of

471
00:23:00,933 --> 00:23:03,453
Speaker 4: different lengths, which means a point stable is horribly confusing.

472
00:23:03,573 --> 00:23:05,333
Speaker 4: So I would like to see every series of the

473
00:23:05,373 --> 00:23:08,733
Speaker 4: old Test Championship is three tests or four days each

474
00:23:09,973 --> 00:23:11,493
Speaker 4: and you put yet three points for a win and

475
00:23:11,613 --> 00:23:14,653
Speaker 4: one point for a draw, and that's a very simple table.

476
00:23:14,773 --> 00:23:16,493
Speaker 4: You can pay extra tests like the Africans will be

477
00:23:16,533 --> 00:23:18,733
Speaker 4: five tests, but just the first three tests would count

478
00:23:18,733 --> 00:23:21,093
Speaker 4: towards that, and suddenly the table is very clear to

479
00:23:21,293 --> 00:23:24,453
Speaker 4: understand and you need windows, but you don't need that many.

480
00:23:24,533 --> 00:23:26,773
Speaker 4: You need you need about two and a half months

481
00:23:26,813 --> 00:23:28,853
Speaker 4: a year that blocked off a Test cricket. So maybe

482
00:23:29,453 --> 00:23:31,453
Speaker 4: you know if you have six series each over two years,

483
00:23:31,533 --> 00:23:33,893
Speaker 4: so that's just three series a year, so you need

484
00:23:34,013 --> 00:23:37,573
Speaker 4: three winners a year of three weeks each. During that time.

485
00:23:37,693 --> 00:23:40,333
Speaker 4: There is no other cricket in Test Nations apart from

486
00:23:40,373 --> 00:23:43,213
Speaker 4: Test matches, so you know Kan Williamson is going to

487
00:23:43,253 --> 00:23:44,733
Speaker 4: be playing in the Test match because there's no other

488
00:23:44,733 --> 00:23:46,893
Speaker 4: cricket for him to play. And that way you know

489
00:23:46,973 --> 00:23:49,093
Speaker 4: when you're seeing New Zealand, you're going to get the

490
00:23:49,173 --> 00:23:52,253
Speaker 4: strongest possible sign and you actually avoid a Trent Bolt

491
00:23:52,293 --> 00:23:54,853
Speaker 4: situation where you know Trent Bolt, as far as I know,

492
00:23:54,973 --> 00:23:58,013
Speaker 4: he absolutely loved playing Test cricket, but understandably he was

493
00:23:58,013 --> 00:24:00,693
Speaker 4: getting thirties and it's a short career he didn't players

494
00:24:00,733 --> 00:24:03,413
Speaker 4: also not paid anything like what say Indian players or

495
00:24:03,653 --> 00:24:06,853
Speaker 4: Incand players are paid and he wanted to know Portes future,

496
00:24:06,853 --> 00:24:11,813
Speaker 4: which is completely understandable. But ideally there's enough money again

497
00:24:11,853 --> 00:24:13,453
Speaker 4: that he shouldn't be put in that position. It should

498
00:24:13,453 --> 00:24:15,533
Speaker 4: be there's a window here where there's just Test cricket.

499
00:24:15,613 --> 00:24:17,253
Speaker 4: You can play that, and you know when that will

500
00:24:17,333 --> 00:24:19,293
Speaker 4: be from a long long way out, and then the

501
00:24:19,333 --> 00:24:22,333
Speaker 4: franchise cricket fits alongside that, and actually you end up

502
00:24:22,373 --> 00:24:24,933
Speaker 4: having two and a half maybe three months. You have

503
00:24:24,973 --> 00:24:27,213
Speaker 4: Test cricket, it's high quality, you know the best players

504
00:24:27,253 --> 00:24:28,853
Speaker 4: will be playing, and you have plenty of room for

505
00:24:28,893 --> 00:24:31,213
Speaker 4: white ball cricket, and every thinking cox is together because

506
00:24:31,253 --> 00:24:32,973
Speaker 4: actually I love the other fourmats as well, and I

507
00:24:33,013 --> 00:24:35,693
Speaker 4: think three four months is a strength for cricket. But

508
00:24:35,853 --> 00:24:38,213
Speaker 4: you need things to be run better. And I guess

509
00:24:38,213 --> 00:24:41,173
Speaker 4: the frustration at riting his history is the administration of

510
00:24:41,253 --> 00:24:43,973
Speaker 4: Test cricket has been so so bad for so long.

511
00:24:44,253 --> 00:24:46,333
Speaker 4: This goes back to before World War One and the

512
00:24:46,413 --> 00:24:48,813
Speaker 4: USA Argentina were very strong. Could have been testinations and

513
00:24:48,893 --> 00:24:51,213
Speaker 4: they didn't. They didn't get the green light because it

514
00:24:51,293 --> 00:24:53,453
Speaker 4: wants it to be a kind of Empire Club and

515
00:24:53,613 --> 00:24:55,973
Speaker 4: so that's a frustration. And look at the history again

516
00:24:55,973 --> 00:24:56,533
Speaker 4: and again.

517
00:24:57,013 --> 00:24:58,893
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think you've find a lot of people that

518
00:24:58,933 --> 00:25:01,653
Speaker 5: would support you there. Unfortunately the ICC don't seem to

519
00:25:01,693 --> 00:25:05,253
Speaker 5: see it as the way that we do. The ICC

520
00:25:05,453 --> 00:25:07,773
Speaker 5: I actually call the Indian Cricket Council rather than the

521
00:25:07,813 --> 00:25:12,133
Speaker 5: Indonestal Group Councils or whatever it is known as these days.

522
00:25:12,333 --> 00:25:14,213
Speaker 5: Have you got have you got a favorite story out

523
00:25:14,253 --> 00:25:16,933
Speaker 5: of all of the work you did to to track

524
00:25:17,013 --> 00:25:18,893
Speaker 5: down or a favorite interview you did.

525
00:25:20,253 --> 00:25:23,493
Speaker 4: So I've got one. You talked about India there. It

526
00:25:23,653 --> 00:25:26,173
Speaker 4: just reminds me and the kind of wealth of India.

527
00:25:26,853 --> 00:25:28,773
Speaker 4: But you know, you look at the history and it

528
00:25:28,933 --> 00:25:31,453
Speaker 4: really was not always this way and as you're a keyword,

529
00:25:31,453 --> 00:25:34,053
Speaker 4: you might enjoy it. So India in the nineteen sixties

530
00:25:34,213 --> 00:25:36,413
Speaker 4: then they're not a great side, and they they have

531
00:25:36,533 --> 00:25:41,213
Speaker 4: a rare victory against New Zealand and you know, the

532
00:25:41,293 --> 00:25:44,213
Speaker 4: players are chaffing and so on, and they think, you know,

533
00:25:44,293 --> 00:25:45,973
Speaker 4: maybe we'll get a bonus. You know, you know, if

534
00:25:45,973 --> 00:25:47,693
Speaker 4: we don't win many matches, this is a big deal.

535
00:25:48,213 --> 00:25:50,733
Speaker 4: And their match feet is two hundred and fifty rupees

536
00:25:50,773 --> 00:25:53,333
Speaker 4: of test, which is really pitted in like a few

537
00:25:53,373 --> 00:25:56,933
Speaker 4: bucks of tests and so what happens after the players,

538
00:25:57,333 --> 00:26:00,573
Speaker 4: you know that they get there their little you know,

539
00:26:00,653 --> 00:26:03,613
Speaker 4: their their payment in a envelope and there's only two

540
00:26:03,693 --> 00:26:06,413
Speaker 4: hundred rupees there. They say what's going on and the

541
00:26:06,493 --> 00:26:08,573
Speaker 4: board says, well, you won in four days and you

542
00:26:08,653 --> 00:26:11,333
Speaker 4: were paid on a per rafter basis, so that actually

543
00:26:11,453 --> 00:26:15,893
Speaker 4: lost money from winning a test match earlier and it

544
00:26:16,013 --> 00:26:18,573
Speaker 4: wasn't a lot of money to begin with. So that

545
00:26:18,813 --> 00:26:22,893
Speaker 4: that was That was quite a young interviews I did.

546
00:26:22,933 --> 00:26:24,613
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I was kind of blown away. I've got,

547
00:26:24,813 --> 00:26:28,173
Speaker 4: you know, so so many to give a few hours,

548
00:26:28,213 --> 00:26:34,133
Speaker 4: but yeah, kay Williamson, Sagintandorca, Michael Holding, Pat Pat Cummins,

549
00:26:34,693 --> 00:26:38,573
Speaker 4: Merely Dale Stain. So I was very lucky to talk

550
00:26:38,653 --> 00:26:42,293
Speaker 4: to so so many. Yeah, I mean, talking to Tendorka

551
00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:45,773
Speaker 4: about his approach to facing Shane warn was was pretty cool.

552
00:26:46,373 --> 00:26:49,533
Speaker 4: That would be one of the best ones. Talking to yeah,

553
00:26:49,613 --> 00:26:53,173
Speaker 4: Michael Holding about that great westernis side was really special.

554
00:26:54,773 --> 00:26:58,293
Speaker 4: And yeah, talking to Ian Chappell's industry because he was

555
00:26:58,333 --> 00:27:01,933
Speaker 4: one of the few players to face top fast bowling

556
00:27:02,453 --> 00:27:05,933
Speaker 4: both without a helmet and with a helmet and getting

557
00:27:05,933 --> 00:27:08,213
Speaker 4: a sense of that change, and you do realize that

558
00:27:08,613 --> 00:27:11,613
Speaker 4: the physical threat in the so the mid seventies is

559
00:27:11,653 --> 00:27:14,013
Speaker 4: when you have a lot of very fast bowlers and

560
00:27:14,093 --> 00:27:16,653
Speaker 4: you still don't have helmets, and just the physical threat.

561
00:27:17,053 --> 00:27:20,173
Speaker 4: And he talks about his because obviously he then played

562
00:27:20,173 --> 00:27:24,613
Speaker 4: World Series cricket and he has this spat with Kerry Packer.

563
00:27:24,933 --> 00:27:27,333
Speaker 4: I mean, have two very strong personalities, and I'm sure

564
00:27:27,333 --> 00:27:31,853
Speaker 4: you can imagine, and Packer basically says you have to

565
00:27:31,893 --> 00:27:34,253
Speaker 4: wear a helmet, and Chapel says, I don't want to

566
00:27:34,293 --> 00:27:38,333
Speaker 4: wear a helmet, and Packer says, you know you get hit, mate,

567
00:27:38,373 --> 00:27:40,933
Speaker 4: I really could not care less. I couldn't care less

568
00:27:41,133 --> 00:27:43,493
Speaker 4: if you're hit on the head. I just couldn't care less.

569
00:27:43,653 --> 00:27:45,733
Speaker 4: But what I will not have is be paying you

570
00:27:45,893 --> 00:27:48,453
Speaker 4: for three months to be stuck on the hospital bed

571
00:27:48,653 --> 00:27:51,133
Speaker 4: because you couldn't wear a helmet. So they're getting a

572
00:27:51,133 --> 00:27:53,933
Speaker 4: shouting match, and eventually Chapeler crease to wear a helmet.

573
00:27:54,173 --> 00:27:57,333
Speaker 5: Thanks very much, Tim, Interesting and it got some great stories.

574
00:27:57,453 --> 00:28:00,173
Speaker 5: It's going to take a while to read, Jerry. I

575
00:28:00,213 --> 00:28:02,213
Speaker 5: think you've got a copy of the book, and it

576
00:28:02,653 --> 00:28:05,453
Speaker 5: won't be read in a hurry. But some wonderful stories

577
00:28:05,533 --> 00:28:08,053
Speaker 5: and boy, the man's got a fund of knowledge, isn't he.

578
00:28:08,413 --> 00:28:12,693
Speaker 3: Well he has now what what a task?

579
00:28:13,973 --> 00:28:16,733
Speaker 6: Yes, he came and tapped me on the shoulder. Actually,

580
00:28:17,413 --> 00:28:23,533
Speaker 6: while we're at headingly and nearly six hundred pages. That

581
00:28:23,613 --> 00:28:25,693
Speaker 6: shouldn't put you off because you can sort of dip

582
00:28:25,773 --> 00:28:30,053
Speaker 6: into it and read, read each each chapter and have

583
00:28:30,173 --> 00:28:32,573
Speaker 6: a break and that sort of thing. And you know,

584
00:28:32,773 --> 00:28:36,893
Speaker 6: lots of lots of stories, whether it's about captains, or

585
00:28:36,933 --> 00:28:40,453
Speaker 6: whether it's about Shane Warn, or whether it's about the

586
00:28:40,973 --> 00:28:44,213
Speaker 6: ages of ten Dolka and those kinds of things that

587
00:28:44,333 --> 00:28:48,053
Speaker 6: he's looked into. I'm really looking forward. I've got to

588
00:28:48,093 --> 00:28:52,453
Speaker 6: confess I've only looked at the at the index at

589
00:28:52,493 --> 00:28:57,293
Speaker 6: the stage and got a bit tired. But but I

590
00:28:57,733 --> 00:29:01,253
Speaker 6: shall have given a crack because it's a it's against

591
00:29:01,333 --> 00:29:05,413
Speaker 6: you an effort from him actually, and and good luck

592
00:29:05,453 --> 00:29:06,573
Speaker 6: to the to the young man.

593
00:29:06,653 --> 00:29:09,893
Speaker 3: He's he's very you know what a task it has

594
00:29:09,973 --> 00:29:10,533
Speaker 3: been for him.

595
00:29:11,013 --> 00:29:12,093
Speaker 2: Yeah, major project.

596
00:29:12,253 --> 00:29:16,173
Speaker 5: And having spoken to him, thanks Tim for your time, and.

597
00:29:16,213 --> 00:29:16,893
Speaker 4: We'll get him back.

598
00:29:16,933 --> 00:29:18,533
Speaker 5: I think be nice to talk to him about some

599
00:29:18,613 --> 00:29:20,573
Speaker 5: of the other things once we've had a chance to

600
00:29:20,733 --> 00:29:23,493
Speaker 5: read and see some of the stories. Because I'm fascinated.

601
00:29:23,533 --> 00:29:27,013
Speaker 5: I've got a PDF copy and my book is on

602
00:29:27,133 --> 00:29:29,253
Speaker 5: the way. But you know what the posters like, and

603
00:29:29,653 --> 00:29:33,813
Speaker 5: flights across the Middle East at the moment aren't that secure.

604
00:29:33,893 --> 00:29:36,293
Speaker 5: So we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

605
00:29:36,333 --> 00:29:38,493
Speaker 5: But back to the Test match. You talk about the

606
00:29:39,173 --> 00:29:42,213
Speaker 5: quality of the game, the quality of the pitch, and

607
00:29:42,293 --> 00:29:44,733
Speaker 5: my first thing I suppose was there'll be a few

608
00:29:44,773 --> 00:29:50,533
Speaker 5: people eating their words, won't they, because they all criticized

609
00:29:50,853 --> 00:29:52,893
Speaker 5: Stokes for bowling first.

610
00:29:53,453 --> 00:29:57,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wonder how he felt. You know why he

611
00:29:57,173 --> 00:29:59,413
Speaker 3: did it? Of course for two reasons.

612
00:29:59,533 --> 00:30:01,773
Speaker 6: Basically, if there was going to be anything in the

613
00:30:01,853 --> 00:30:04,413
Speaker 6: headingly service, it would be on the first day. It

614
00:30:04,573 --> 00:30:07,573
Speaker 6: was a kind of a it wasn't a really virulent green.

615
00:30:07,693 --> 00:30:11,293
Speaker 6: It was a little bit green, but not much. But

616
00:30:11,413 --> 00:30:14,013
Speaker 6: if there was going to be anything in the game,

617
00:30:14,613 --> 00:30:16,973
Speaker 6: it would be in the first day. So if his

618
00:30:17,093 --> 00:30:20,453
Speaker 6: bowlers were good enough in the first morning, in the

619
00:30:21,133 --> 00:30:26,173
Speaker 6: two sessions, he might get a little breakthrough into the opposition,

620
00:30:27,253 --> 00:30:30,973
Speaker 6: and then if it didn't happen. His main reason is

621
00:30:31,013 --> 00:30:35,173
Speaker 6: they love to chase, they back their batting, and they

622
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:41,613
Speaker 6: want to bat last. So that's basically what his reasoning

623
00:30:41,853 --> 00:30:44,853
Speaker 6: was I wonder how he would have felt when India

624
00:30:44,933 --> 00:30:48,653
Speaker 6: were four hundred and thirty for three, whether he felt that,

625
00:30:49,213 --> 00:30:51,933
Speaker 6: my word, we are going to have to do some

626
00:30:52,133 --> 00:30:55,413
Speaker 6: batting to get back into this game. So there must

627
00:30:55,453 --> 00:31:00,413
Speaker 6: have been little concerns. He kept the field upwards. He

628
00:31:00,933 --> 00:31:05,573
Speaker 6: just kind of doesn't seem to worry about the rate

629
00:31:05,653 --> 00:31:09,173
Speaker 6: of scoring against him. So there were all always kind

630
00:31:09,213 --> 00:31:13,533
Speaker 6: of three slips gully leg slip in that first day

631
00:31:14,653 --> 00:31:18,213
Speaker 6: and giving and supporting his bowlers and so on, whether

632
00:31:18,333 --> 00:31:22,533
Speaker 6: they needed that or not. So the run certainly came.

633
00:31:22,653 --> 00:31:25,733
Speaker 6: But as soon as Gil made a little error and

634
00:31:25,853 --> 00:31:28,693
Speaker 6: he was on about one hundred and forty and picked

635
00:31:28,733 --> 00:31:34,693
Speaker 6: out the deep backwards square off Basher, suddenly the game changed.

636
00:31:34,773 --> 00:31:38,973
Speaker 6: And as you know, the reason that India lost this

637
00:31:39,213 --> 00:31:42,453
Speaker 6: game was that they had two collapses.

638
00:31:43,613 --> 00:31:46,013
Speaker 3: Seven for forty and six for thirty something like that.

639
00:31:47,533 --> 00:31:50,853
Speaker 6: The tail basically from number eight, nine, ten, eleven didn't

640
00:31:50,893 --> 00:31:54,853
Speaker 6: supply anything and that put a lot of pressure on

641
00:31:54,933 --> 00:31:58,773
Speaker 6: the top order. It meant that Jadasia was reduced as

642
00:31:58,813 --> 00:32:02,973
Speaker 6: a batsman. He was he's either had to slog, you know,

643
00:32:03,373 --> 00:32:05,773
Speaker 6: or he had to sort of bat with number eleven

644
00:32:05,853 --> 00:32:08,773
Speaker 6: to decide which ball to take a runoff the second

645
00:32:08,813 --> 00:32:12,053
Speaker 6: innings and then of course they dropped catchers and that's

646
00:32:13,133 --> 00:32:16,693
Speaker 6: that's that's criminal when you've got you know, bowlers like

647
00:32:16,773 --> 00:32:19,013
Speaker 6: Boomera who can't bowl too many overs.

648
00:32:19,933 --> 00:32:22,773
Speaker 3: So those two things together wad's cost them the match?

649
00:32:23,413 --> 00:32:24,733
Speaker 2: Yep, that's the way it seemed.

650
00:32:24,773 --> 00:32:24,933
Speaker 5: Here.

651
00:32:25,093 --> 00:32:27,413
Speaker 2: We're not allowed to watch it on television here a

652
00:32:27,573 --> 00:32:28,013
Speaker 2: Jerry's guy.

653
00:32:28,053 --> 00:32:31,013
Speaker 5: I've decided we don't need the series between two of

654
00:32:31,093 --> 00:32:34,293
Speaker 5: the greatest sides currently going around, so we have to

655
00:32:34,853 --> 00:32:38,373
Speaker 5: wait for really the Yeah, it's not being sharp, but

656
00:32:38,413 --> 00:32:40,373
Speaker 5: we are going to see Australia against the West Indies,

657
00:32:40,413 --> 00:32:43,933
Speaker 5: so I suppose that's something and that'll be interesting.

658
00:32:44,573 --> 00:32:46,653
Speaker 2: Jasper Boomera is the man.

659
00:32:46,853 --> 00:32:49,813
Speaker 5: A lot has been spoken about him. Steve Finn, former

660
00:32:49,973 --> 00:32:52,933
Speaker 5: English international bowler, has made a case that is the

661
00:32:53,013 --> 00:32:57,373
Speaker 5: most complete fast bowler of all time. Well the stats

662
00:32:57,693 --> 00:33:02,053
Speaker 5: say something that supports that. But it's very hard to

663
00:33:02,413 --> 00:33:07,773
Speaker 5: again talk about bowlers between various eras. But it's too

664
00:33:07,853 --> 00:33:10,653
Speaker 5: much being asked of Boomera in their attack and do

665
00:33:10,853 --> 00:33:12,293
Speaker 5: they have anybody to support him.

666
00:33:14,093 --> 00:33:18,973
Speaker 6: I was hopeful that the Indian side weren't just a

667
00:33:19,093 --> 00:33:25,413
Speaker 6: one bowling outfit, but I'm afraid as the Test continued

668
00:33:25,493 --> 00:33:29,333
Speaker 6: through its course that it looked very much that way.

669
00:33:30,613 --> 00:33:36,933
Speaker 6: He tended to bowl five over spells. Obviously, in the

670
00:33:37,013 --> 00:33:41,493
Speaker 6: first innings he was more effective than the second, and

671
00:33:42,573 --> 00:33:46,653
Speaker 6: as things progressed in the second innings he changed. I

672
00:33:46,773 --> 00:33:50,133
Speaker 6: felt he changed his length and was trying to get

673
00:33:50,173 --> 00:33:53,453
Speaker 6: wickets for his side in other words, and pitching up.

674
00:33:54,533 --> 00:33:57,333
Speaker 6: And Duckett was having quite a good innings at that point,

675
00:33:58,533 --> 00:34:01,613
Speaker 6: and so he was getting driven and so on. So

676
00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:03,533
Speaker 6: he was just a little bit full, I felt in

677
00:34:03,613 --> 00:34:07,293
Speaker 6: the second innings. But yeah, he's a great bowler. That

678
00:34:07,453 --> 00:34:10,213
Speaker 6: doesn't mean to say that he's the greatest of all time.

679
00:34:11,373 --> 00:34:13,173
Speaker 6: I think that's very hard to die. I mean, there

680
00:34:13,213 --> 00:34:17,573
Speaker 6: are so many reasons for me. What about the pictures

681
00:34:17,973 --> 00:34:21,093
Speaker 6: that Fred Truman played on. Yes, you know, what about

682
00:34:21,133 --> 00:34:24,093
Speaker 6: the outfields and the drainage that they have nowadays.

683
00:34:25,653 --> 00:34:26,773
Speaker 3: So you have some rain.

684
00:34:27,453 --> 00:34:29,493
Speaker 6: In the past, you'd go off and you'd stay off

685
00:34:30,173 --> 00:34:33,773
Speaker 6: and you didn't get the overs. Nowadays you're back on

686
00:34:33,933 --> 00:34:36,533
Speaker 6: in twenty minutes. You know how much grass are on

687
00:34:36,573 --> 00:34:39,453
Speaker 6: all those wickets that all those players played on, all

688
00:34:39,453 --> 00:34:43,573
Speaker 6: those lovely bowlers. So and the ground preparations have changed,

689
00:34:43,653 --> 00:34:46,653
Speaker 6: haven't they. What about the quality of the sides that

690
00:34:46,773 --> 00:34:49,813
Speaker 6: they were up against, all these different bowlers, so many

691
00:34:49,893 --> 00:34:54,293
Speaker 6: good ones, aren't there. What about umpires, neutral umpires versus

692
00:34:54,413 --> 00:34:59,573
Speaker 6: decision review system, the balls that they used, They've changed

693
00:34:59,613 --> 00:35:01,973
Speaker 6: them just recently, so the dukes and the kooker bar

694
00:35:01,973 --> 00:35:05,413
Speaker 6: are now different, two piece, four piece, quality of the

695
00:35:05,493 --> 00:35:06,613
Speaker 6: fielding and the cordon.

696
00:35:07,253 --> 00:35:08,173
Speaker 4: I mean you could go on.

697
00:35:08,533 --> 00:35:12,813
Speaker 6: I think in the coaching and the science, biomechanics, all

698
00:35:12,973 --> 00:35:15,773
Speaker 6: those things, and loadings, the amount of cricket that the

699
00:35:15,853 --> 00:35:20,013
Speaker 6: players play, the different formats. I find it very hard

700
00:35:21,053 --> 00:35:26,933
Speaker 6: to compare a bowler from the past with ones today

701
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:30,533
Speaker 6: and say he is way better. How do you compare

702
00:35:30,613 --> 00:35:35,893
Speaker 6: Marshall Holding, you know, Garner, roberts Croft and all that lot.

703
00:35:36,373 --> 00:35:39,573
Speaker 6: I mean, they're not just up against the batsmen that

704
00:35:39,613 --> 00:35:42,773
Speaker 6: they're playing, they're up against each other because everybody else.

705
00:35:42,693 --> 00:35:45,333
Speaker 3: Has taken the wickets. You've got to get in first.

706
00:35:45,933 --> 00:35:49,133
Speaker 5: And you know, and there's the statistics around Richard Hadley

707
00:35:49,173 --> 00:35:52,813
Speaker 5: as well, who mixes with all those names that we've

708
00:35:52,893 --> 00:35:54,493
Speaker 5: seen in terms of who's.

709
00:35:54,253 --> 00:35:57,013
Speaker 6: Got the most wadds, who's got the most bags of

710
00:35:57,093 --> 00:36:03,093
Speaker 6: five wickets and ten wickets, Hadley absolutely absolutely.

711
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:07,253
Speaker 5: Thirty six five fers, nine ten fers. The only one

712
00:36:07,293 --> 00:36:11,053
Speaker 5: who surpasses it is Mororley. But of the pace Bowl,

713
00:36:11,093 --> 00:36:15,893
Speaker 5: as Hadley leads the way, I just wonder with the

714
00:36:15,973 --> 00:36:20,053
Speaker 5: scores you talk about the scores that were made at Headingley,

715
00:36:20,813 --> 00:36:23,973
Speaker 5: was it a road because we know that Edgebiston is

716
00:36:24,373 --> 00:36:26,613
Speaker 5: producing a lot of runs. Tom Latham is playing for

717
00:36:26,733 --> 00:36:28,853
Speaker 5: Warwicks are there and has battered pretty well and got

718
00:36:28,933 --> 00:36:32,333
Speaker 5: some runs yep there this year Edgebiston seems to be

719
00:36:32,493 --> 00:36:34,013
Speaker 5: producing a lot of runs.

720
00:36:34,333 --> 00:36:38,053
Speaker 2: Are they preparing pitchers to b roads to Negate Boomra.

721
00:36:37,933 --> 00:36:40,773
Speaker 3: Well, that might be one of the reasons.

722
00:36:41,293 --> 00:36:44,333
Speaker 6: He's only at the moment they're saying still three Test

723
00:36:44,453 --> 00:36:47,933
Speaker 6: matches of the five. Whether they get to the last

724
00:36:48,093 --> 00:36:52,453
Speaker 6: Test and they are India are one behind. Who knows

725
00:36:52,533 --> 00:36:56,373
Speaker 6: whether they'll slide him in for a forth I don't know,

726
00:36:57,333 --> 00:36:59,813
Speaker 6: or if they're even at that stage they might do

727
00:36:59,933 --> 00:37:00,453
Speaker 6: the same thing.

728
00:37:00,493 --> 00:37:00,933
Speaker 3: I don't know.

729
00:37:01,893 --> 00:37:05,773
Speaker 6: I think they're preparing roads. They're not just roads, they're motorways.

730
00:37:06,773 --> 00:37:08,053
Speaker 3: They are roads.

731
00:37:08,533 --> 00:37:11,493
Speaker 6: They're not b roads which you get in England, you know,

732
00:37:11,573 --> 00:37:13,813
Speaker 6: are a bit more rough, a bit more that. There's

733
00:37:13,853 --> 00:37:15,653
Speaker 6: a bit more nibble, there's a bit more up and

734
00:37:15,733 --> 00:37:19,253
Speaker 6: down in variety in bounce and so on. They're doing

735
00:37:19,293 --> 00:37:23,013
Speaker 6: that for their batsmen because they can chase hard and

736
00:37:23,093 --> 00:37:25,653
Speaker 6: they can hit through the length of the ball. They

737
00:37:25,693 --> 00:37:27,493
Speaker 6: don't need to worry about that it's not going to

738
00:37:27,653 --> 00:37:30,813
Speaker 6: it's not going to deviate, you know. That's the reason

739
00:37:30,893 --> 00:37:33,133
Speaker 6: I think that they play. Otherwise they tend to get

740
00:37:33,213 --> 00:37:36,293
Speaker 6: out and make mistakes and we've seen a lot of

741
00:37:36,373 --> 00:37:39,733
Speaker 6: collapses from this England side as well as lots of

742
00:37:40,093 --> 00:37:43,213
Speaker 6: fast runs scored at a decent clip. Yeah, I think

743
00:37:43,293 --> 00:37:48,773
Speaker 6: that's the reason. But it also does effect Boomra, although

744
00:37:48,853 --> 00:37:51,893
Speaker 6: he's sometimes good enough to get them out anyway. But

745
00:37:52,053 --> 00:37:54,893
Speaker 6: you've got to hold the catchers. Now, they dropped about

746
00:37:54,933 --> 00:38:00,253
Speaker 6: six or seven catches there. India really created more than

747
00:38:00,333 --> 00:38:05,493
Speaker 6: twenty chances in the match, so but they didn't claim

748
00:38:05,573 --> 00:38:08,253
Speaker 6: them all. So that was really the key for the

749
00:38:08,573 --> 00:38:13,573
Speaker 6: part as well. So they have got more concerns India.

750
00:38:13,693 --> 00:38:16,213
Speaker 6: I think they will sit down and have to have

751
00:38:16,373 --> 00:38:19,813
Speaker 6: some very serious discussions about their team. I don't know

752
00:38:19,893 --> 00:38:23,093
Speaker 6: what you thought from from far away if you did

753
00:38:23,213 --> 00:38:24,333
Speaker 6: manage to catch anything.

754
00:38:24,413 --> 00:38:25,013
Speaker 3: But they've got a.

755
00:38:25,053 --> 00:38:28,733
Speaker 6: Guy called Sai Sodashan who's becoming in at number three.

756
00:38:28,813 --> 00:38:33,493
Speaker 6: A left hander, he's obviously they've regarded as the future, along.

757
00:38:33,333 --> 00:38:37,333
Speaker 3: With you know, Gil and so on and Jase Wall.

758
00:38:37,813 --> 00:38:40,013
Speaker 6: He falls over to the off side with a heavy

759
00:38:40,053 --> 00:38:43,253
Speaker 6: head and was caught leg side both games lifting the ball.

760
00:38:43,813 --> 00:38:45,933
Speaker 3: He'll probably play in the next Test match.

761
00:38:45,973 --> 00:38:49,333
Speaker 6: I would think four and five are very secure Punt

762
00:38:49,573 --> 00:38:52,293
Speaker 6: and Gil, and then you get to six.

763
00:38:52,373 --> 00:38:55,493
Speaker 3: Who's going to bat six? Karen NYA, No, I don't.

764
00:38:55,573 --> 00:38:58,933
Speaker 6: I don't think that's a that's a serious discussion because

765
00:38:59,013 --> 00:39:01,973
Speaker 6: Judaeisa at the moment is not getting into the game enough,

766
00:39:02,533 --> 00:39:05,573
Speaker 6: either as a bowler or as a batsman, and so

767
00:39:05,973 --> 00:39:09,453
Speaker 6: does he push up there or do you ring someone

768
00:39:09,613 --> 00:39:12,373
Speaker 6: like Drove Jurrell as a name that maybe a lot

769
00:39:12,413 --> 00:39:15,493
Speaker 6: of our listeners won't know. But he's a wicket keeper

770
00:39:15,893 --> 00:39:18,933
Speaker 6: who's a very good batsman, and they might play him

771
00:39:18,973 --> 00:39:22,573
Speaker 6: at six and then keep Jadasia at seven. They can't

772
00:39:22,613 --> 00:39:26,653
Speaker 6: afford to play Chardle Takour again, not really in my opinion.

773
00:39:27,333 --> 00:39:30,893
Speaker 6: I think they've got to play at Edgeburston got to

774
00:39:31,013 --> 00:39:34,293
Speaker 6: play cool deep Yadav so they've got to play two

775
00:39:34,333 --> 00:39:38,053
Speaker 6: spinners in my estimation, and then they have to look

776
00:39:38,093 --> 00:39:40,853
Speaker 6: at the seamers. And I don't know whether Bomra will

777
00:39:40,893 --> 00:39:42,773
Speaker 6: play in that Test match because as you say, it's

778
00:39:42,853 --> 00:39:43,373
Speaker 6: quite flat.

779
00:39:43,533 --> 00:39:45,773
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. Might be better for him to play

780
00:39:45,773 --> 00:39:46,853
Speaker 3: at Lord's with the slope.

781
00:39:47,133 --> 00:39:50,773
Speaker 5: Yeah, interesting stuff then, so longer and stronger in the

782
00:39:50,853 --> 00:39:54,213
Speaker 5: batting lineup and taking the chances. We'll be watching with

783
00:39:54,333 --> 00:39:57,413
Speaker 5: a lot of interest that Test match at Edgberston and

784
00:39:57,933 --> 00:40:00,693
Speaker 5: will take the chance to review that just before we

785
00:40:00,773 --> 00:40:03,733
Speaker 5: go this week. Jerry, you'll be looking forward to the

786
00:40:03,813 --> 00:40:06,533
Speaker 5: home summer. I'm sure when you return home. We're only

787
00:40:06,573 --> 00:40:09,693
Speaker 5: going to have sixteen T twenty matches for the black

788
00:40:09,733 --> 00:40:13,613
Speaker 5: Caps this year, six odish and they're going to sneak

789
00:40:13,653 --> 00:40:16,213
Speaker 5: three Test matches as well. Sounds exciting.

790
00:40:16,333 --> 00:40:20,013
Speaker 3: Hey are they doing what they've planned? Last year was

791
00:40:20,053 --> 00:40:20,973
Speaker 3: and after Christmas?

792
00:40:21,093 --> 00:40:24,253
Speaker 6: Is all basically white ball cricket, which is a shame

793
00:40:24,333 --> 00:40:28,853
Speaker 6: because to me that's our better part of the summer. Well,

794
00:40:28,933 --> 00:40:33,093
Speaker 6: it's therefore slightly better pitchers and good for Test matches, but.

795
00:40:33,213 --> 00:40:34,493
Speaker 2: It's not at home.

796
00:40:34,973 --> 00:40:38,213
Speaker 5: The last day of play in the Test match against

797
00:40:38,213 --> 00:40:41,533
Speaker 5: the West Indies is the twenty second of December, right,

798
00:40:41,613 --> 00:40:44,773
Speaker 5: and the next home game is the fifteenth of March,

799
00:40:45,413 --> 00:40:49,653
Speaker 5: so it's domestic cricket through the months of January, February

800
00:40:49,693 --> 00:40:54,253
Speaker 5: and early March, and then a South African side comes

801
00:40:54,293 --> 00:40:56,613
Speaker 5: here for more T twenty games as well as the

802
00:40:56,733 --> 00:40:59,373
Speaker 5: sixteen that are there. They're going to be playing five

803
00:40:59,493 --> 00:41:01,253
Speaker 5: in India as the build up to the World T

804
00:41:01,413 --> 00:41:04,173
Speaker 5: twenty and then there's a twenty team competition with more

805
00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:07,893
Speaker 5: T twenty. So we've got an epidemic of white ball cricket.

806
00:41:08,333 --> 00:41:10,253
Speaker 5: We're trying to match South Africa, aren't we.

807
00:41:10,733 --> 00:41:14,613
Speaker 6: Well, so we've got basically three test matches for the summer,

808
00:41:14,733 --> 00:41:15,093
Speaker 6: is that right?

809
00:41:15,133 --> 00:41:18,573
Speaker 3: Against the West Indies? That's it. Yeah, and they're all

810
00:41:18,853 --> 00:41:21,453
Speaker 3: in what November, December.

811
00:41:22,173 --> 00:41:24,533
Speaker 2: The end of November and December.

812
00:41:24,933 --> 00:41:26,933
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a shame. That's a shame.

813
00:41:27,733 --> 00:41:32,893
Speaker 6: And I think the cricket follower love their tests and

814
00:41:33,013 --> 00:41:36,333
Speaker 6: we've got good followers around New Zealand who do support

815
00:41:36,453 --> 00:41:39,453
Speaker 6: that format. And it's a shame that we're not playing

816
00:41:40,133 --> 00:41:44,453
Speaker 6: at least a couple after after Christmas.

817
00:41:45,213 --> 00:41:47,333
Speaker 5: But I suppose that's the reality that we face with

818
00:41:47,933 --> 00:41:51,213
Speaker 5: international competitions and teams not necessarily wanted to come to

819
00:41:51,333 --> 00:41:52,093
Speaker 5: this part of the world.

820
00:41:52,413 --> 00:41:54,253
Speaker 2: I hope we can get more than.

821
00:41:54,333 --> 00:41:58,853
Speaker 5: A twenty minute highlight package each day from any website

822
00:41:58,933 --> 00:42:01,253
Speaker 5: that seems to have it. Didn't get a chance to

823
00:42:01,293 --> 00:42:02,693
Speaker 5: have a look at the Test and you know me,

824
00:42:02,813 --> 00:42:03,973
Speaker 5: I'll sit up in the middle of the night and

825
00:42:04,013 --> 00:42:08,173
Speaker 5: watch Test cricket forever in the day. So it's it's

826
00:42:08,613 --> 00:42:10,853
Speaker 5: a bit disappointing, but I hope we do get a

827
00:42:10,973 --> 00:42:12,813
Speaker 5: chance to see some more. Otherwise we're going to have

828
00:42:12,853 --> 00:42:13,253
Speaker 5: to rely.

829
00:42:13,253 --> 00:42:14,093
Speaker 2: On you again, Jerry.

830
00:42:14,413 --> 00:42:18,333
Speaker 5: Next week review of the Edge Weston Test match. Go

831
00:42:18,493 --> 00:42:21,373
Speaker 5: and warm yourself. I suppose it's quite warm.

832
00:42:22,013 --> 00:42:23,293
Speaker 3: No, it's not bad odds.

833
00:42:23,493 --> 00:42:27,133
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we relax, then relax and get ready for

834
00:42:27,213 --> 00:42:29,333
Speaker 2: the next Test match. We're we're going to need you.

835
00:42:31,653 --> 00:42:32,253
Speaker 3: That's nice.

836
00:42:33,133 --> 00:42:35,813
Speaker 6: Oh well, look I'm sorry you aren't able to view

837
00:42:35,893 --> 00:42:40,933
Speaker 6: it live because it was it was a special match. Actually,

838
00:42:41,493 --> 00:42:45,133
Speaker 6: whether they can, whether they can repeat that at Edgeveston,

839
00:42:45,213 --> 00:42:47,813
Speaker 6: will wait and see. I think we'll see some a

840
00:42:47,893 --> 00:42:51,653
Speaker 6: couple of changes in the Indian side. I think probably

841
00:42:51,773 --> 00:42:55,333
Speaker 6: England will feel well satisfied with the way that the

842
00:42:55,453 --> 00:42:58,333
Speaker 6: game actually finished in the end, obviously, so.

843
00:43:00,093 --> 00:43:02,773
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all to be done for India. They will

844
00:43:02,813 --> 00:43:03,893
Speaker 3: see how they respond.

845
00:43:04,893 --> 00:43:07,053
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, well we look forward to the next Test

846
00:43:07,093 --> 00:43:07,973
Speaker 2: match and we'll look forward to.

847
00:43:07,973 --> 00:43:12,213
Speaker 5: Hearing from your injury happter the interesting testments, go into yourself.

848
00:43:12,573 --> 00:43:16,213
Speaker 6: Thanks, watch take care of everybody and uh yep, I'll

849
00:43:16,333 --> 00:43:17,733
Speaker 6: try and bring it to you under

850
00:43:19,453 --> 00:43:28,973
Speaker 1: Summarting For more from News Talks at b Listen live

851
00:43:29,173 --> 00:43:31,853
Speaker 1: on air or online, and keep our shows with you

852
00:43:31,973 --> 00:43:34,933
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