WEBVTT - How new biometric privacy rules will change what businesses must disclose 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:06.280 Kyoda. 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.400 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:16.560 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New Zealand's 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:21.239 Privacy Commissioner has issued new rules around the automated use 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:26.360 of biometrics. Biometric processing is the use of tech like 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.640 a facial recognition to collect and process people's biometric information. 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.760 The code comes into force on the third of November 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:39.479 twenty twenty five today, but agencies already using it have 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.080 until the third of August next year to align themselves 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.239 with the new rules. Today on the Front Page, Privacy 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.240 Commissioner Michael Webster is with us to take us through 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:52.840 what all of this actually means and how we can 0:00:53.000 --> 0:01:01.240 protect ourselves. First off, my well, You're probably asked this 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:06.680 a lot, but what exactly is biometric information? 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.360 Well, I guess that the simplest way to describe it 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:16.600 is each individual's physical and behavioral characteristics, personal. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.560 Information about them and the ones I think most people 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:25.160 will be familiar with things like fingerprint scans, iris scanning, 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:29.000 and of course increasingly we've seen here in New Zealand 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.560 facial recognition technology or FRT. Those are the sorts of 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:37.800 biometric information processings that we have seen here in this. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.240 Country, right, So instead of something that only happens in 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.479 a Tom Cruise movie, it's increasingly happening in real life. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:47.960 Can you give us some examples, sure. 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:50.200 I guess two of the most common are there's a 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.440 number of workplaces, for example, where there are sensitive areas, 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:58.559 and some workplaces are now using fingerprint scanning for people 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.400 to be able to eat into those places. I think 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.000 many people will be already familiar with the use of 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:08.120 IRIS scanning to unlock IT programs or devices that sort 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.080 of thing. And of course in New Zealand will be 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.919 familiar with the recent trial that Foodstuffs Northilent did of 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.720 the use of FRT to address some serious harm retail 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.200 crime issues that they were having. 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.839 So what prompted the introduction of this new biometric code. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:29.720 Well, we've been scanning both what's happening internationally and here 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:36.200 in New Zealand, and increasingly businesses other agencies are using 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:42.280 technological developments to either improve their customer service or to 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.600 deliver on their objectives. And so inevitably there's going to 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.120 be we think a greater use of BIOMESHP technologies by 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:50.440 organizations out there. 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.640 And we wanted to make sure that both in the 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:54.280 public and the. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.640 Private sector, that this country was ready for that coming 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.840 wave of a bit of uses of this sort of technology. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.359 Right, So I'm walking around the supermarket and obviously all 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.040 the cameras are catching me what I'm picking up, and 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.480 how I'm walking, and what I look like and everything. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.960 What can the supermarket then now do with that information 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:15.880 now that there's a code in place. 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.880 Well, in the past, of course, you would have been 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.480 watched by a CCTV which would have just been recording you, 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:23.800 and then a person would have been looking at that 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.799 to see what you're up to. Now, for example, if 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.959 someone has threatened a staff member or engaged in assault 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:36.680 at for example, a supermarket or a hardware store, they 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.640 might go onto what's called a watch list, a group 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.000 of people who, for example, have been trespassed and are 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:45.240 not allowed to back in. And so when you come 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.080 in again, what the biometric technology can do through the 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:53.400 camera system is match your face with the face that's 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.200 on the watch list. So that kind of I guess 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:02.480 verification process there, identification process, and then the store because 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.440 there always needs to be human oversight the stalk and 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:05.800 then decide what to do about that. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.520 Whether to call the police to approach you directly. Those 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:10.839 are the choices open to them. 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:13.320 Right, So if I go back in wearing a fake 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:18.040 mustache and a wig, and will it pick me up? 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:18.800 Is it that good? 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:25.480 Some models of facial recognition technology, some biometric technology is 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.760 that good? It comes back to a question about what 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.800 level do you set the accuracy reading? And one of 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.000 the discussions we've had with New zeal organizations is ensuring 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:41.080 that you don't leave yourself at the risk of misidentification 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.240 or incorrectly accusing somebody of being on a watch list 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.920 when they're not, because that is incredibly harmful and damaging 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.720 and upsetting for individuals. And so you want to be 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.840 able to set the match I guess criteria quite high, 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:56.520 and you want to be able to use a very 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:09.120 reliable and good biometric technology product software that sort of thing. Unfortunately, 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.080 even if you could make it through every other security measure, 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.240 you won't be the last one. That's because it's protected 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.000 by gait analysis, the step beyond facial recognition. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.080 These cameras actually know how the agent walks, how he talks, 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.719 how he moves, write down to facial tics. 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.240 So what you're saying is no mask can be to. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:30.040 A right. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:34.440 How does this code differ from privacy laws we already 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:35.120 have in place. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.120 Sure, so we already have here in New Zealand our 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:42.480 own New Zealand Privacy Act in biometric technology, biometric information, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.599 like all personal information, was already gaverned under the Privacy Act. 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.640 What this does though, is I guess clarify and strength 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:54.720 and some of the requirements on organizations thinking about using 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:55.599 this technology. 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.320 So now, for example, they need to go through a 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:00.560 deliberate process of. 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:06.040 Considering whether they have privacy safeguards in place. For example, 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.520 with facial recognition technology, the Footsteps Northland trial had a 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.400 system of immediate deletion of non matches, so they didn't 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.599 build up this giant database of Kiley spaces if you 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.800 see what I mean, they would immediately deleted. That would 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:24.200 be a privacy safeguard. We expect under the code greater transparency. 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.720 So if you go into a business that's using biometric technology, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.360 we would expect there to be very visible signage, whether 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.840 it's from employees or customers, saying that it's in use. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.240 And we also want people to go through a very 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:43.039 careful process of working out whether the proposed used is 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.080 actually proportionate to the problem or the gain that you're 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:52.640 looking to achieve. So will the privacy risks be outweighed 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.920 by the benefits from using that technology? Is it basically necessary? 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.560 Is it justified? Is it effective for your to use? 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:01.760 Is it proportionate? 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.880 I'm going to play Devil's advocate here because the first 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.120 thing that comes into my mind with this kind of 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.880 technology is brands looking at customers and seeing who picks 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.119 up their product. Who, you know, what their customer base 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.560 would be. So would this code protect your biometric information 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.640 from being used, say via marketing. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.520 So there's a couple of things. That one is again 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.560 we should always remember that people have always been watched 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.640 while they're in stores with CCTV. That has always been 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.080 a feature as well as the people in the store 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.680 as well. One of the things we've done with this 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.040 code is that we've said there needs to be some 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.160 particular limits on its use, and one of those limits 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:51.000 is around what we would call inferential biometrics, such as 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:56.480 I guess, trying to read people's emotions or their mental state. So, 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.760 for example, have they appeared to be more excited when 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.920 they walk past the particular item of clothing then when 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.720 they walk past something else, those sorts of things, and 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.280 we've said, actually, unless there are particular exceptions in place, 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.160 we don't think biometric technology should be used for those purposes. 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:17.679 How does the code address particularly sensitive uses I suppose, 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.760 like profiling based on ethnicity or health even I. 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:23.600 Guess there's a couple of issues there that I mean. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.800 The first is that there is always a risk with 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.600 the use of biometric technology around bias and profiling, and 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:32.920 that is why, for. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:33.760 Example, to come. 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.800 Back to that earlier the ashue I talked about, you 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.600 need to be able to set the match criteria quite 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.480 a higher level. A lot of the biometric tools that 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.679 have been developed overseas aren't representative or reflectives of New 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.520 Zealand's population. They're not very good at recognizing people with 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.360 darker skin types as well, for example, And so you 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.360 need to be able to assure your customers because at 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:59.080 the end of the day, you want the trust and 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.599 confidence of your customtomers. You need to be able to 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:06.199 assure them that those that are matched are matched accurately. 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:10.200 And you also need to have pretty strict criteria if. 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.640 You're using it for say retail crime reasons around who 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.400 ends up on a watch list and why they end 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.480 up on a watch list. You've got to watch out 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.680 for any human bias coming into how the systems are. 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:25.720 Used, how will compliance be monitored or even enforced, and 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.880 what penalties might there be in place once the code 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:29.840 is enacted. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.400 So the Code includes the same requirements and obligations on 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.800 businesses and organizations that exist in the current Privacy Act 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.160 at the moment. For example, if you feel that your 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:46.360 privacy rights have been intruded on or you've been treated 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:50.040 unfairly in terms of the management and protection of your 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:53.000 personal information, what we say is that you should first 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.520 approach the organization concerned and if you can't resolve your 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.440 concerns with them, you can and this is the same 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.400 under the code as well. You can complain to our 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:06.360 office and if we feel that your complaint has merit 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:10.120 in it, we will investigate further. We also have a 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.360 compliance and enforcement team and one of the roles that 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.400 they carry out is just generally doing proactive schemes across 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:18.600 what's going on. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:19.319 In New Zealand. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.320 One of the things about New Zealand is that they're 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.720 not shy these days about complaining and so if we 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.440 see for example, that there's an uptick and media stories 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.800 about a particular organization and how it's used. In biometric technology, 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.040 we have the right and the ability to go and 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:36.120 see what's going on. 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:41.120 What rights do individuals have regarding their biometric information? 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.920 Again, individuals have the same rights as they have under 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.880 the privacy X. So, for example, you have the right 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.440 for your information to be held securely. We don't want 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.960 people building up databases of personal information and then that 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.959 information being at risk from a cyber attack. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.840 And I guess the key point here is that, for. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:09.480 Example, I had my driver's license stolen through a cyber attack, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.120 I can go and get a new driver's license, right, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:13.839 I can get a new driver's license number. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.280 That's okay. If I have my fingerprints stolen, or my 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.560 iris akain stolen, or my face stolen through a cyber attack, 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.679 that's not just information about me, that is me. If 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:26.800 you know what I mean, and you can't replace that, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:27.440 it's gone. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.959 It's out there, probably being sold on the dark web. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.240 So individuals need to know and have the right to 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.640 head information looked at as securely. Information that has held 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.680 you also have a right to access as well. You 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:44.120 can ask organizations for the information they hold about you. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.200 And you said that you looked internationally at what other 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:49.960 countries have been doing around these kind of codes and 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.720 this information. What kind of lessons did you guys learn, 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.760 either good or bad from what others are doing elsewhere. 0:11:57.559 --> 0:11:59.360 Well, we're actually in a little bit of a catch 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.600 up mode here with this code. Other countries have for 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:08.480 quite a while now treated biometric information as sensitive personal 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.520 information because of its inherent nature that it is you, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.880 not just about you, and so they've already had their own. 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:18.240 Rules and regulations in place. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:21.360 A number of the countries that we are particularly close 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.920 with and compare ourselves with, if you think of Australia, 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.920 the UK, Canada, those sorts of countries they are have 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.760 been and are currently looking at how. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.200 They regulate this information as well. So it's not just us. 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.080 All around the world privacy regulators are looking at the 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.559 issue of the increasing use of this technology and ensuring 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.040 that when it is used that trust and confidence and 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.200 people's privacy rights are not impacted by that. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.079 It's funny you say that they were in catch up mode, 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.359 because when I read about this code, I thought, finally 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.400 New Zealand is getting ahead of the curve because we're 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:01.240 always talking about, especially on this podcast as well, when 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:04.800 it comes to AI or anything tech, really how far 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.400 behind we are, how far behind the laws are. For example, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.240 you know, there are some laws that don't even really 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.640 understand that a phone is in our pocket these days, 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.280 you know what I mean. So it really does feel 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:21.280 like even for a lay person that we are getting 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.439 ahead of this. Are we that behind? 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.400 First that the Privacy Act itself is actually technology neutral, 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.600 it's not kind of like, you know, anti technology, and 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:32.960 you know, at the end of the day, we want 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.440 New Zealand to benefit from the use of innoventive technologies, 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.840 but what it's about is creating I guess guardrails for 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.480 how that technology is used, because that at the end 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.920 of the day, and doing privacy well is going to 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.199 be good for the individual, but it's also good for business. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.120 One of the things we're increasingly seeing in overseas surveys, 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:58.440 and this reflects perhaps a younger, more digitally savvy group 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.439 of people growing up, is that if people are unhappy 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.240 about how that personal information is being managed by a company, 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.760 by an organization, they can quite easily pick up and 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.839 leave and go somewhere else and we see that happen 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.360 increasingly in New Zealand as well, and so businesses are 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.160 now becoming more and more aware of that. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.040 And so. 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.880 As long as any new regulatory frameworks like this code 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.280 are practical for them to use that we provide as 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.600 we have lots of guidance about how to do it well, 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:37.320 they're accepting of that as a way to help ensure 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:41.280 that when they do use this new innovative technology that 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:43.000 it is, as I say, good for them as well 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.040 as good for the individual. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.840 Another thing we can do to protect though, is never 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.120 rely on a biometric as a single factor of authentication. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.880 It should be part of multi factor authentication. So that way, 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.240 even if my fingerprint does get compromised, well, I have 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.240 more fingers, But even if that were the case, I'm 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.320 still relying on more than just that alone. I'm relying 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.360 on a password, something I know, or something I have, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:17.640 like a particular device. So with multi factoring authentication, we're 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:22.040 reducing that risk surface by spreading out the different security 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:23.120 mechanisms we're using. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:30.000 And I note that businesses already using this biometric information 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:34.320 one way or another have until August next year. Is 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.320 that just logistics wise? Does it just take a while 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.560 to I guess, recalibrate the technology that they're using at 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:40.960 the moment. 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:42.000 That's right. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.200 We wanted to ensure again from a practical point of view, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.200 that any business that is already using biometric technology had 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.600 a period of time just to reassess these systems against 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.960 the requirements and the code, to seek any further advice 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.440 they needed to carry out, for example, and updated what 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.440 we call obviously impact assessment, to relook at the privacy 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.440 safeguards they've got in place, to think about whether they 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.680 might want to add in some more for example, to 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.280 ensure that they are consistent with the expectations that are 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:14.520 set out in the code. 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.760 And it's really incredible what biometric information we do carry. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.479 I mean, you mentioned the iris scan and the fingerprint. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.200 That's what people are kind of used to seeing, but 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.520 you've also got things like the way someone walks, the 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:32.560 way someone moves. That's you know, things that we may 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.800 not think of. Did you ever think when you first 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:40.960 became Privacy Commissioner or related into this space that you 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.920 would be speaking about people's iris scans, fingerprints and the 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.400 way they walk, talk and get excited when they see 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:49.840 a product or something. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:51.760 Yes, I did. 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:56.800 And interestingly enough, we've been through quite consultative process in 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.600 developing this code. So it start actually a little while 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:05.320 ago now, a few years ago now, but increasingly both overseas. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:09.359 But you see the sort of information used, and you 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.120 even of course can see it heralded in popular literature, 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.480 particularly say, for example, the sort of sci fi literature 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:17.280 you've talked about. 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:18.639 It is a reality. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:24.320 New Zealand wants to benefit from and use digital innovation, 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.040 new technology. 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:28.720 And part of my role is with our. 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.560 Technology Neutral Privacy Act and our regulatory framework is ensuring 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.399 that new technology can be used in a way that 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:41.359 is safely used and is protective of people's privacy rights as. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:41.639 It can be. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:47.679 Thanks for joining us, Michael, you to thank you that 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.040 said for this episode of The Front Page. You can 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.000 read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:59.480 enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.200 by Jay and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:08.080 I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.679 or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:13.760 for another look behind the headlines.