WEBVTT - From giant Buddhas to helipads: How do councils decide what to approve - and does complaining change their minds? 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:05.120 Kiyota. 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:08.240 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.520 daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.239 Not in my backyard. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.160 For decades, that's been the battle cry for suburbanites and 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:27.800 homeowners unimpressed by changes happening in their neighborhood. But how 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.640 often are those complaints valid or are they just people 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.160 unhappy with change? With both a sixteen point five meter 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.239 tall Buddhist statue in Why We're the Valley and a 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.240 helipad in Westmere getting people talking today on the Front Page, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:47.440 we're looking into the resource management process and why some 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.239 things get approved and others don't. Later we'll talk with 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:56.720 Associate Professor Caroline Miller from Massi University's Resource and Environmental 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:02.040 Planning program. But first, for details on that giant Buddhist statue, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:08.800 we're talking to Nsitt Harold Senior reporter David Fisher. Some 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:13.520 basic questions first, David, where is this statue being built? 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:16.319 Who's building it and why are they doing so? 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.560 Let me start if I can by painting a picture 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:24.800 of sorts Wyverta Valley is north of Auckland, south of Poohoy, 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.800 and it is this beautiful rural valley. It is rolling 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:34.880 hills and quite steep ridges, regenerating native bush and the 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.279 rolling hills as you come down from the steep hills, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:42.360 a green pastures and it's quite harsy, lovely paddics. It's 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:44.880 a real rural paradise and people have gone there and 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.240 they've got lifestyle blocks and lovely houses that are built 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:50.680 around the rim of this valley, sort of looking towards 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.200 the center where there is a sixty meter hill. Now 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.640 that's sixty meter hill. Buildings started on it a couple 0:01:56.720 --> 0:01:59.520 of months ago. The neighbors couldn't really work out what 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.640 was going going on. They started doing a little bit 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.960 of detective work and found out that what was going 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.880 on was that someone they didn't know who was building 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.280 a sixteen and a half meter tall Buddhist statue and 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.040 plinth five meter tall plinth with an eleven and a 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.880 half but of statue on top of it that's going 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.399 to be golden. They were quite upset that they never 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:24.919 got to have a say in this before the building began. 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.680 Who's building this statue? Why are they doing it? 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:28.320 Well? 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.959 Who is a charity that's called the jets Grove Charitable Trust. 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:39.840 Jetters Grove, named after an important Buddhist temple based in India. 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.880 The why, well, that's somewhat of a difficult question. I mean, 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.240 the charity, Jetts Grove Charitable Trust has said now in 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.560 a letter that's come a couple of months down the 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.280 track from building beginning, they have said that they are 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.680 building this as a gift to the community. They say 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:02.760 that they're very grateful to New Zealand for its open minded, tolerant, 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:08.120 respectful approach to culture, that it's a nation of kind 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.480 hearted people with communities that, as they say, are beautifully 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.880 integrated across different ethnic groups. And as a reflection of that, 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.359 they have decided that they would like to build the 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.600 statue and give it to the people of New Zealand 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.840 as a gift. The neighbors of wyw'd A Valley are 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.880 more of a mind to say return to sender, thanks, 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.440 thanks for the offer, but no thanks, But they don't 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:30.480 actually get a say. 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:32.880 And the neighbors that you've spoken to the described it 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:33.919 as horrifying. 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:39.080 Why is that, Well, there's a tremendous number of words 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:43.120 that have been used to describe the statue. Monstrosity, horrifying, 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:45.560 blight on the landscape, all of these sorts of things. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:51.119 It's because it really will look very different from anything 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.880 else that is in that valley. And actually, I think 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:57.800 if you throw a net across the entirety of the 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.600 North of Auckland, which would include the Gibbs far that 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.640 has these extraordinary works of art, it still looks very 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.720 different from anything that you would see anywhere in North 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.280 of Auckland, and that is because it is a large 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:15.440 statue of religious iconography today or say, they wouldn't care 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.120 if it was a statue of Christ or a Canoo 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.600 figure or whatever religion it might be. It's this thing 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.560 that is sticking out like the proverbial on top of 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.920 a tall hill that's going to be gold. It will 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.320 shine in the sun where the sun comes up in 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.240 the morning, and they just don't want it. 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:41.159 The size is just it's monstrous for a valley like this. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.279 It's going to be very visible from all the properties 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.640 around here. It's going to be bright gold, which just 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.400 doesn't make sense in a rural environment. It's a faithful 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:57.800 replication of apparently an image of gurum Posh. To my mind, 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:02.680 that describes a religious and dormant it doesn't describe art, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:06.320 and so. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.160 This didn't need to be approved because it counts as 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:10.920 a work of art. Is that right? 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:11.599 That's right? 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.479 And this is a really this is a really interesting 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:18.640 thing about this Auckland Council process and about the approval 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.920 process for this Buddhist statue. When the application was put 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:26.040 in by the Jettis Grove Charitable Trust to build the statue, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:28.920 they described it as a work of art and it 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:31.880 it led it to neighbors. They have said it was designed, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.240 it was crafted by a Taiwanese artist and they say 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.279 it is a work of art. So under the Auckland 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:41.880 Council Unitary Plan, which is Auckland Council's wolves for building 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.479 in the wider Auckland area, if something is designated as 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.320 a work of art, it isn't a rural area. You 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:52.080 don't need to go through the resource consent process. You 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.120 go through a completely different process at all, where you 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.400 don't need to consult with your neighbors. You can just 0:05:57.960 --> 0:05:59.240 go ahead and you can build it. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.320 Do you reckon that's a bit of a loophole in 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:01.719 the law. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.279 Well, the neighbors certainly think it's a loophole. And you know, 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:11.120 I talked to some ferociously clever academics that have spent 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.880 their life working in art and studying art, and the 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.719 outcome of those conversations was basically artist in the eye 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.080 of the beholder. What might be art to me might 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.440 not be art to you. There are precedent cases in 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.440 New Zealand of things that one might not see it 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.520 as art being described as art. There was a shipping 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.000 container in Hamilton that had a door in the side 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.080 and a window around the other side that was found 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.240 to be a piece of art because it was commentary 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.359 on housing and New Zealand. One of those academics that 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.000 I spoke to, he had said, the problem here isn't 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:49.760 that this is art or this isn't art. The problem 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.479 here is the Auckland Council decision making process. Because you 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.719 can call it anything art and it will be to 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.960 someone and so you can build anything you like. 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:13.840 Thanks for joining us, David, Thanks very much. We're now 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.680 joined by Associate professor from Massi University's Resource and Environmental 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:25.760 Planning program, Caroline Miller. Can you just outline for us 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:31.080 the standard planning process for councils in New Zealand, if. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.320 That be sics right planning one on one? If you 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.840 want to do something on your property, then you one 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:39.640 of the first things you need to do is to 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.440 check your district and regional plans. So we're presuming it 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:47.000 might be in a rural environment or in an open one, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:49.680 but you have eased the district plan, and the district 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.920 plan will list a series of activities as the Act 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.680 calls them, So that could be housing, it could be retail, 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.880 could be some industrial activity. Having defined what these different 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:07.920 activities are, then you determine what type of controls might 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:12.440 be needed to ensure that they fit into the environment 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.680 in which they're established and that they don't cause a 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.280 huge array of negative impacts for the people around them. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:24.640 So essentially, what planning does says, here's your opportunity to 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.840 put forward what you want to do. In many cases, 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.120 it's what we call a permitted activity. So there are 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.720 some standards in the plan which you have to meet. 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:38.000 So in a housing situation, you may have to be 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.840 so many meters off a boundary, there'll be a restriction 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:46.640 on how high you can go to ensure there's an overshadowing, etc. 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.800 The activity could be quite complicated. So if we look 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.839 at a couple of these things that we've recently seen 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.600 they have looked at things like helicopter landing pads, probably 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:04.040 be on their experience of existing ones in urban and 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.920 rural areas, and then they would define the activity or 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.240 a landing pound for a helicopter and then decide what 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:18.160 level of controls you need to ensure that it doesn't 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:24.320 have significant adverse effects on surrounding properties and the people 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:25.240 who lived there. 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.600 That's the helipad in Westmere that Anna Moobray and Ali 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.160 Williams have been fighting over. This has been obviously a 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.240 contentious process for some time, and that got approved just 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.679 the other week against the wishes of the community, and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.320 it's led to some locals to say that they've lost 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.920 faith in the resource management process. 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:46.400 Do you think that's fair? 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.240 No, I don't think it is at all, Because they 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.520 have all benefited from the resource management process, they perhaps 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.520 don't recognize that at the most basic level, we've ensured 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.720 that nobody is going to build a large, noisy, dirty 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:08.320 factory next, because you've separated our activities and gathered to 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:13.079 ones together that are largely compatible with each other. So 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.280 in a residential area, they'll be provisioned for school, childcare centers, 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.320 sorts of things which fit into a residential zone. What 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.040 you do then get are a whole lot of activities 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:29.720 which might be acceptable or can be made acceptable in 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:34.360 terms of controlling anverse effects. But you need to examine 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.679 them on a one by one beast and that is 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:42.840 clearly where you have got. These helipads being seen to 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:50.120 be some dispute on this are restricted or a discretionary activity? 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.760 Yeah, copses by residents in Auckland are pushing back against 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.520 a new helicopter pad Zuru co founder Animobra and Habbi 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.800 Ali Williams have applied to build one on their property. 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.400 Neighbors fear it may cause harm to local birds. I 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.559 just think Ali Williams is hoping that if he builds 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:09.199 a helicopter pad, maybe maybe Richie McCall will finally come 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.319 and visit. Do you think he calls it an allicopter? 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.360 Oh my god, how the whole thing came. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.079 He doesn't want a helipair, He was like, I want 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:27.880 to build an alli pad. Is it enough for a 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:32.320 community to simply not like something, for counsel to have 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.439 to change its mind when it comes to consenting all 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:36.720 different kinds of plans. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:42.240 No, the act says you must demonstrate that you are 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:49.240 adversely affected, and that is harder perhaps than people think. Look, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:55.240 this particular decision is a real matter of judgment and 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.600 I would be surprised if it doesn't go to appeal 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.840 because I think that this is one of perhaps it's 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:08.120 just a small number of people seeking helipads in established 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.040 residential area. I know there's a lot on y Heki, 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.480 but you can see, well, that is a very mixed area. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:20.840 It's not densely urban, it's partly rural, partly rural residential, etc. 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.559 So you might expect things like helicopters in that environment. 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.480 All that the evidence that they have been presented. However, 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.520 that doesn't mean that they may be overalled by a 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:39.640 higher authority. And that's what the Environment Court exists for 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.280 so that people can say, we're not happy with this decision, 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.439 we believe is defective in the following ways, we want 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.600 the Environment Court to consider it. And in New Zealands 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.360 our system is very often in terms of giving people 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:59.920 the right to make comment on these sorts of development 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.680 and also give them a path to a higher level 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:06.800 of appeal. It's not actually a standard point of every 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.400 other planning system. Across the world. We have always had 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.840 a very generous system in that regard. However, in the end, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:18.760 from my experience, some people will never be happy. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.240 What about when it comes to a sixteen meter tall 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.559 Buddha statue in why We're the Valley right now? 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:29.160 That is an interesting one, definitely a one off. However, 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:34.079 as the cancel has pointed out, the plan has a 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:37.680 new definition of what is art, because remember, art is 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.320 in the eye of the beholder. I couldn't imagine you 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.880 being able to easily write a definition of what is art. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.240 For the people who are erecting it, this is a 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.199 symbol of their faith. So in many ways, if you 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:54.120 think about it, cathedrals have great height and steeples, etc. 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.800 Because they are again indications of faith. In this case, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.120 it's going to be put into a rural residential area 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:09.440 where essentially there's just brassland around it, on undulating land. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:14.880 It will be prominent, but because the activity has not 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.160 been defined, there will be nothing in the plan that 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:23.000 controls it. Yes, it will be a prominent structure, but 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:26.520 I think that is the whole point. These people want 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:28.640 this as a signal of their faith. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.360 Do you think that from now it gives credence to 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.680 the fact that perhaps something like that should be in 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:35.640 future plans. 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.760 Yes, yes, it might be. But remember when you sit 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.880 down and write a district plan, and have done this myself, 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.160 you have got to try and look at what is 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.400 in the world in front of you and what might 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.360 be in the world ten years ahead. So you're trying 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:55.520 to predict the future. So yes, the district plan would 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.480 have had to have contemplated that, but there's no real 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.600 signal I think that this sort of thing was going 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:08.120 to emerge. So yes, sometimes district plans don't actually contemplate 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.680 activity because remember, plans take a long time to go 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.800 through the processes, partly because we allow a lot of 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:20.320 consultation and submission, right and so, but the time a 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.520 plan comes into operation, it's already a number of views, 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.120 all in terms of the environment of whatever you want 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.000 to call it that it's based on. Yeah, but again, 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.200 how do you write a definition of art and what 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.440 is acceptable to me might not be acceptable to you. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.120 But also, this is a rural residential area and there 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.680 will be a lot of other toll structures could come 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.200 into that environment. Wind power turbines come to mind, and 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.280 our hells are decorated with them. You can't stand anywhere 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.600 in the city of palmstanth No and not see your 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:56.520 wind turbine. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.640 If I wanted to build a wind turbine, say in 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.360 the middle of Palmerston North, and the council said no, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.240 could I erect one anyway and call it art? 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.040 I date it. I date it because there will be 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.400 a definition of a wind turbine in the district plan 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.960 and what you're proposing to do is covered by it. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:17.680 What if I bidazzle it, I. 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.840 Know it won't make any difference in essence of it. Look, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.760 you can, and you could properly find a kese where 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:28.680 you could do something, But for instance, in a residential area, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.480 generally there are hype restrictions. Yeah, I can see. I 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.520 can see both sides of this. I can see why 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:37.840 the neighbors are very upset, and I can see why 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:39.880 of the people promoting it want to do it. 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.160 How do planners balance competing interests? 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.880 I guess, like economic development, you've got environmental protection and 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.760 community needs and want How do they balance all of 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.080 that in their decision making? 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:56.600 Is it basically based on precedents to some extent? 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:03.200 But remember planners don't make decisions. They present evidence with 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:09.920 a recommendation, but that recommendation can and is ignored because 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:14.040 the decision makers see that situation in a different way 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.280 what the plant does as they see. The first thing 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.160 you look at is what are the effects, who are 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:25.240 they going to affect, and what can we do to mitigate, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:30.800 to reduce or even eliminate that effect. So, for instance, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.679 if you wanted to build a particular building see a 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.840 small avatar in the rural area, people might not want 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.880 to see that. Therefore, one way of addressing the visual 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:46.560 impact of that on the neighbors would be to have 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.520 planting around it, to have it well set off boundaries 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:56.280 with the neighbors, etc. However, people sometimes don't care if 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.159 there are conditions that are going to mitigate, reduce, or 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.160 eliminate the effect because they don't believe that will actually 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.760 happen and it can't be demonstrated. Unfortunately, until the activity 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:17.000 takes place gets developed, there are at times unexpected effects 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:24.159 that neither the applicant nor the decision makers have actually predicted. 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.480 But in most cases, at the moment that artwork will 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.080 look like a visual assault to everybody who can see it, 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.919 because they are very focused on it and they don't like. 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:42.040 With time, my prediction would be that people will eventually 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.600 incorporate it into their view of the environment in which 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:47.160 they live. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.320 Thanks for joining us, Caroline. 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.240 That's it for this episode of The Front Page. You 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.080 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.000 at ends at harold co dot nz. The Front Page 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.560 is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:08.160 also a sound engineer. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.119 I'm Chelsea Daniels. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.840 Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.680 get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:19.040 behind the headlines.