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Speaker 1: We're going to find out today just how stuff the

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Speaker 1: government's books are when Treasury releases its half year Economic

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Speaker 1: Update or the HIGAFU. Now, it already sounds like the

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Speaker 1: Finance Minister is softening us up for a return to

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Speaker 1: surplus to be a year later than we had expected,

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Speaker 1: and with us now as the former Treasury director in

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Speaker 1: New Zealand Initiative, Senior Fellow Bryce Wilkinson, Hey.

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Speaker 2: Brice, it's good morning.

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Speaker 1: Given what's happening with the economy at the moment, are

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Speaker 1: you happy to see the surplus pushed out or do

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Speaker 1: you expect better?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not happy to see that pushed out, but

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Speaker 2: if it's pushed out, that's what it is. What I'm

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Speaker 2: really looking for is signs of even more determined action

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Speaker 2: by the government to stop so much wasteful public spending

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Speaker 2: and to use assets better, and also to do things

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Speaker 2: about New Zealand's already slow growth and productivity. It's that

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Speaker 2: slow growth which isn't producing much income growth and therefore

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Speaker 2: the govern it's not getting much revenue growth, so that's

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Speaker 2: part of the problem.

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Speaker 1: What kind of cutting would you like to see.

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Speaker 2: Well, the government sort of holding public service numbers way

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Speaker 2: above where they were pre COVID, and a government spending

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Speaker 2: is running at about two percent of GDP higher than

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Speaker 2: it was pre COVID, So it's a case of chasing

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Speaker 2: value for money and government spending. I particularly support the

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Speaker 2: government's initiative in the social policy space of bringing back

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Speaker 2: the Social Investment approach, which really has a focus on

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Speaker 2: finding out what programs work.

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Speaker 1: Bryce the government doesn't have to push the surplus out right.

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Speaker 1: They could actually do what you're saying, what you're advocating for,

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Speaker 1: which is just cut really deep and get us back

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Speaker 1: into surplus earlier, can't they?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that could be done.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 2: I've been hoping that in last year's budget the government

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Speaker 2: would have done more, but it left itself very little

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Speaker 2: physical room for maneuver with extra operating speining, then spend

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Speaker 2: a lot more money on pharmaceuticals and yeah, so it's

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Speaker 2: put it so funder more pressure this year by not

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Speaker 2: doing more last year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to right, Bryce, Thanks very much, doctor Bryce Wilkinson,

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Speaker 1: former Treasury Director in New Zealand Initiative senior fellow. For

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Speaker 1: more from the Mic Asking Breakfast listen live to news talks.

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Speaker 1: It'd be from six am weekdays or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio,