1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,787 --> 00:00:15,587 Speaker 2: There's no grassroots rugby in the Holford of a Carpety 4 00:00:15,667 --> 00:00:18,907 Speaker 2: province this weekend after the Union made the decision to 5 00:00:18,947 --> 00:00:22,347 Speaker 2: cancel an entire round of fixtures. This after allegations of 6 00:00:22,387 --> 00:00:26,227 Speaker 2: abuse towards a match official in a secondary schools game 7 00:00:26,467 --> 00:00:29,987 Speaker 2: last weekend. The Union has followed through on their promise 8 00:00:30,227 --> 00:00:33,307 Speaker 2: of a month or so ago to do exactly this 9 00:00:33,867 --> 00:00:38,387 Speaker 2: following escalating abuse towards their match officials. He's CEO of 10 00:00:38,467 --> 00:00:41,627 Speaker 2: Hotiford to a Carpety Corey Kennett, on the incident that 11 00:00:41,747 --> 00:00:44,667 Speaker 2: led to this decision being made in a secondary school 12 00:00:44,787 --> 00:00:48,547 Speaker 2: game between Carpety College and Marna College last weekend. 13 00:00:48,827 --> 00:00:52,587 Speaker 3: What I can say is it was abhorrent and the 14 00:00:52,907 --> 00:00:58,147 Speaker 3: abuse was from multiple layers. We're talking about people that 15 00:00:58,227 --> 00:01:04,507 Speaker 3: are at games, spectators, players, team team management, to the 16 00:01:04,547 --> 00:01:08,707 Speaker 3: point that at the end of the year game, the referee, 17 00:01:09,907 --> 00:01:15,227 Speaker 3: the good individuals, good public individuals. We're so concerned about 18 00:01:15,227 --> 00:01:18,627 Speaker 3: the referee safety that he was escorted to his car. 19 00:01:18,787 --> 00:01:22,027 Speaker 2: So that's Cory Kenned. He's holof a Carpety Chief executive. 20 00:01:22,427 --> 00:01:26,427 Speaker 2: Mike Hester is New Zealand Rugby's head of Rugby Participation 21 00:01:26,747 --> 00:01:29,907 Speaker 2: in Community Rugby, He joins us now, Mike, thanks for 22 00:01:29,907 --> 00:01:31,707 Speaker 2: taking the time for a chat this afternoon. Are you 23 00:01:31,707 --> 00:01:34,387 Speaker 2: in favor of the action that's been taken by the 24 00:01:34,387 --> 00:01:35,987 Speaker 2: holofin New a carpety union. 25 00:01:36,707 --> 00:01:40,067 Speaker 4: In sure, Yes, we absolutely support the decision. As you've 26 00:01:40,707 --> 00:01:43,227 Speaker 4: alluded to in the frame up there, THEYD signal this 27 00:01:43,347 --> 00:01:46,747 Speaker 4: really clearly to the community about expectations and the consequences 28 00:01:46,747 --> 00:01:50,107 Speaker 4: of they didn't see improvements and it's a great shame 29 00:01:50,147 --> 00:01:53,667 Speaker 4: they've had to go to these links now to cancel 30 00:01:53,747 --> 00:01:58,347 Speaker 4: rugby this weekend. It is positive to say that they're 31 00:01:58,387 --> 00:01:59,387 Speaker 4: following through on that now. 32 00:01:59,787 --> 00:02:02,787 Speaker 2: Are they able to act unilaterally on this? Michael? Do 33 00:02:02,867 --> 00:02:05,587 Speaker 2: they need to get New Zealand Rugby approval of some 34 00:02:05,667 --> 00:02:08,427 Speaker 2: sort before then they can take this action? 35 00:02:10,067 --> 00:02:13,547 Speaker 4: This fits entirely within their sort of jurisdiction responsible for 36 00:02:13,587 --> 00:02:16,427 Speaker 4: delivering rugby in their community and know best how to 37 00:02:16,467 --> 00:02:19,747 Speaker 4: deliver that as well, So that the short answer is 38 00:02:19,747 --> 00:02:22,787 Speaker 4: that they don't need to necessarily seek our approval for 39 00:02:22,827 --> 00:02:26,307 Speaker 4: such things. But they brilliant positively engage with us around 40 00:02:26,747 --> 00:02:29,267 Speaker 4: the issues have had over the last month. So comes 41 00:02:29,267 --> 00:02:29,987 Speaker 4: as no surprise. 42 00:02:30,507 --> 00:02:34,067 Speaker 2: Do you think other unions will consider following suit? Have 43 00:02:34,147 --> 00:02:37,187 Speaker 2: you heard anecdotally that others, having heard of hot to 44 00:02:37,227 --> 00:02:41,027 Speaker 2: a Carpody's stance a month ago and across this weekend, 45 00:02:41,467 --> 00:02:44,307 Speaker 2: we'll look to do something similar in their provinces. 46 00:02:46,147 --> 00:02:48,387 Speaker 4: I'm not sure that they necessarily will move to these links, 47 00:02:48,427 --> 00:02:50,627 Speaker 4: because it all depends on sort of what's happening locally 48 00:02:50,667 --> 00:02:53,747 Speaker 4: and where they're at. But certainly the provincial unions are 49 00:02:53,747 --> 00:02:56,147 Speaker 4: really well connected with each other and supportive of what 50 00:02:56,347 --> 00:02:59,227 Speaker 4: they're all trying to do, so they'll have a really 51 00:02:59,267 --> 00:03:04,827 Speaker 4: good understanding of what's led to this carpety and that 52 00:03:05,027 --> 00:03:07,387 Speaker 4: is certainly something that's open to them should they be 53 00:03:07,547 --> 00:03:09,827 Speaker 4: expressing sort of similar issues in the in the EPU. 54 00:03:10,107 --> 00:03:12,227 Speaker 2: Do you think that the fact that Holdforno a company 55 00:03:12,267 --> 00:03:15,467 Speaker 2: have done it will I don't know, open open the 56 00:03:15,507 --> 00:03:18,267 Speaker 2: door for others. It may set a precedent of sorts. 57 00:03:18,267 --> 00:03:20,907 Speaker 2: People might say, Okay, hey, they've done it, we're going 58 00:03:20,947 --> 00:03:22,827 Speaker 2: to do that as well, and we are going to 59 00:03:22,827 --> 00:03:23,667 Speaker 2: follow through with it. 60 00:03:25,547 --> 00:03:29,147 Speaker 4: I think it's obviously save ideally's going to save a 61 00:03:29,187 --> 00:03:33,707 Speaker 4: purpose for hotpena company's community around what's what's expected. But 62 00:03:33,867 --> 00:03:37,027 Speaker 4: also it will serve a wider message, I guess, for 63 00:03:37,067 --> 00:03:40,227 Speaker 4: other provincial unions and their communities around just what can 64 00:03:40,267 --> 00:03:42,347 Speaker 4: happen if if people don't stay above the line in 65 00:03:42,387 --> 00:03:45,867 Speaker 4: terms of their passion on sidelines and their attitudes towards 66 00:03:46,147 --> 00:03:50,387 Speaker 4: those that are involved with enabling the game. So to 67 00:03:50,427 --> 00:03:53,547 Speaker 4: some degree, this is an important decision for HK to make, 68 00:03:53,627 --> 00:03:57,707 Speaker 4: but we expect that or has some ramplications for others 69 00:03:57,787 --> 00:04:00,547 Speaker 4: around what might happen if it's done as a similar 70 00:04:01,187 --> 00:04:02,147 Speaker 4: improvement and behavior. 71 00:04:02,507 --> 00:04:05,587 Speaker 2: Would you consider taking nationwide action of this type. 72 00:04:07,307 --> 00:04:12,067 Speaker 4: I think it'd probably be beyond sort of a sort 73 00:04:12,067 --> 00:04:14,707 Speaker 4: of level of appropriateness for ended art to consider doing that, 74 00:04:14,867 --> 00:04:17,827 Speaker 4: because the reality is we know that provincial union is 75 00:04:17,867 --> 00:04:20,707 Speaker 4: the best place to locally lead their game and lead 76 00:04:20,747 --> 00:04:23,307 Speaker 4: their communities. And so this is a really a decision 77 00:04:23,347 --> 00:04:25,347 Speaker 4: for PUS, but certainly would be there to support them 78 00:04:25,387 --> 00:04:29,187 Speaker 4: around the actions that they take. This is of course 79 00:04:29,267 --> 00:04:33,147 Speaker 4: a really extreme measure that Company I have had to 80 00:04:33,187 --> 00:04:35,627 Speaker 4: take in terms of the situation in their provincial union. 81 00:04:35,907 --> 00:04:39,907 Speaker 4: There's a whole range of other initiatives and programs of 82 00:04:39,987 --> 00:04:42,827 Speaker 4: work that also try to prevent it getting to this point. 83 00:04:43,907 --> 00:04:45,507 Speaker 4: So ideally those are the ones that are actually going 84 00:04:45,587 --> 00:04:48,267 Speaker 4: to ensure that we don't have to have a repeat that. 85 00:04:48,387 --> 00:04:50,747 Speaker 4: These would be metters for local provincial unions to decide. 86 00:04:50,947 --> 00:04:53,267 Speaker 2: Would it not show leadership from the national body if 87 00:04:53,307 --> 00:04:59,187 Speaker 2: you were to do something in a nationwide sense, Well, 88 00:04:59,187 --> 00:05:00,107 Speaker 2: there's certainly a. 89 00:05:00,147 --> 00:05:01,947 Speaker 4: Leadership role for us to play in this space, in 90 00:05:01,987 --> 00:05:05,987 Speaker 4: which it's around what are we doing in terms of 91 00:05:06,067 --> 00:05:07,747 Speaker 4: the safety rails at the top of the cliff to 92 00:05:08,067 --> 00:05:09,867 Speaker 4: ensure that the behavior doesn't get to this point. So 93 00:05:10,027 --> 00:05:16,267 Speaker 4: things around raising awareness and information, around the respect we 94 00:05:16,387 --> 00:05:18,627 Speaker 4: need to hold towards match officials and the difficult job 95 00:05:18,667 --> 00:05:20,987 Speaker 4: they've got to do, what good behavior looks like, and 96 00:05:21,027 --> 00:05:23,987 Speaker 4: rewarding that good behavior through to the sort of ambulance 97 00:05:24,027 --> 00:05:26,507 Speaker 4: at the bottom of the cliff, which is around holding 98 00:05:26,547 --> 00:05:31,587 Speaker 4: people to account for behavior and through judicial processes and 99 00:05:31,867 --> 00:05:34,867 Speaker 4: measures like this. So we provide sort of leadership around 100 00:05:34,867 --> 00:05:37,747 Speaker 4: a range of things that to use heavnty disposal but 101 00:05:37,827 --> 00:05:40,107 Speaker 4: probably not appropriate for them that had to take a 102 00:05:40,187 --> 00:05:43,427 Speaker 4: position where we would you actually sort of hold the 103 00:05:43,467 --> 00:05:48,667 Speaker 4: whole country to a ban If record. 104 00:05:49,947 --> 00:05:52,947 Speaker 2: And I'm only speaking hypothetically here, but if this works 105 00:05:53,187 --> 00:05:55,267 Speaker 2: in a hot of phenomer company and in six months 106 00:05:55,387 --> 00:05:58,987 Speaker 2: time or a year from now in the next winter season, 107 00:05:59,227 --> 00:06:02,747 Speaker 2: there is a drastic improvement there, and it's connected to 108 00:06:03,427 --> 00:06:05,427 Speaker 2: the sort of action that they've taken. Would you at 109 00:06:05,467 --> 00:06:08,507 Speaker 2: that point maybe look at doing something similar or even 110 00:06:08,947 --> 00:06:11,667 Speaker 2: taking the lessons you've learned here to other unions. 111 00:06:14,307 --> 00:06:17,307 Speaker 4: I think this is a good example of leadership being 112 00:06:17,387 --> 00:06:20,347 Speaker 4: applied at the local level. We often try to work 113 00:06:20,387 --> 00:06:23,347 Speaker 4: across the provincial unions to share what good practice looks 114 00:06:23,427 --> 00:06:26,947 Speaker 4: like or good case studies of initiatives that have worked. 115 00:06:27,227 --> 00:06:30,147 Speaker 4: So this is ideally going to be one that will 116 00:06:30,227 --> 00:06:34,467 Speaker 4: help that community sort of get back on a even keel. 117 00:06:34,947 --> 00:06:37,467 Speaker 4: And so this is that will probably hold as an 118 00:06:37,547 --> 00:06:40,707 Speaker 4: example of what provincial unions could do if they felt 119 00:06:40,707 --> 00:06:43,787 Speaker 4: it was necessary. But these are obviously really extreme steps 120 00:06:43,827 --> 00:06:46,387 Speaker 4: and we would prefer not to see that get to 121 00:06:46,427 --> 00:06:47,667 Speaker 4: a point where this was necessary. 122 00:06:48,107 --> 00:06:52,267 Speaker 2: Do you think abouse directed towards officials at grassroots level 123 00:06:52,307 --> 00:06:53,107 Speaker 2: has gotten worse? 124 00:06:56,147 --> 00:07:05,667 Speaker 4: See, we do capture reporting around referee abuse cases, and 125 00:07:06,387 --> 00:07:08,867 Speaker 4: that's important for us to sort of understand the national level, 126 00:07:08,907 --> 00:07:11,347 Speaker 4: what's happening, where that might be happening, what we can 127 00:07:11,427 --> 00:07:15,667 Speaker 4: do to try and influence better outcomes there. Over recent years, 128 00:07:15,707 --> 00:07:18,547 Speaker 4: we have seen an increase and some of this is 129 00:07:19,187 --> 00:07:22,947 Speaker 4: sort of shoots back to COVID times where obviously during 130 00:07:22,987 --> 00:07:26,427 Speaker 4: those periods where societies go through a lot of different challenges, 131 00:07:26,787 --> 00:07:29,107 Speaker 4: and we did see and I think other sports saw 132 00:07:29,147 --> 00:07:32,067 Speaker 4: this as well, we did see some increases and sort 133 00:07:32,107 --> 00:07:36,027 Speaker 4: of sideline tension. Over recent years, we've seen those numbers 134 00:07:36,027 --> 00:07:38,787 Speaker 4: start to climb again. But what we have also done 135 00:07:38,947 --> 00:07:42,107 Speaker 4: is really encouraged reporting. We want to hear about referee abuse. 136 00:07:42,187 --> 00:07:44,227 Speaker 4: So it's hard to pinpoint exactly whether or not we're 137 00:07:44,227 --> 00:07:49,147 Speaker 4: seeing increasing issues on sidelines or if it's just a 138 00:07:49,627 --> 00:07:53,267 Speaker 4: symptom of increased reporting. What we do know though, is 139 00:07:53,347 --> 00:07:55,907 Speaker 4: that we deliver around six to seven thousand games of 140 00:07:55,987 --> 00:08:00,107 Speaker 4: rugby every weekend across the country, and last year I 141 00:08:00,147 --> 00:08:02,387 Speaker 4: think we had seventy four cases of referee abuse that 142 00:08:02,507 --> 00:08:05,587 Speaker 4: sort of met the threshold whether they needed to be reported. 143 00:08:06,707 --> 00:08:08,867 Speaker 4: As of this year at about sixty four cases, so 144 00:08:09,227 --> 00:08:11,627 Speaker 4: we expect that we'll probably surpass that number for this year. 145 00:08:11,947 --> 00:08:13,707 Speaker 4: But again that may well be because we are really 146 00:08:13,747 --> 00:08:16,267 Speaker 4: trying to encourage reporting in these cases so that we 147 00:08:16,347 --> 00:08:18,627 Speaker 4: have a better understanding what's going on. But if you 148 00:08:18,707 --> 00:08:20,627 Speaker 4: think of those in the number of games delivered in 149 00:08:20,667 --> 00:08:22,547 Speaker 4: the number of cases that have been reported, it's still 150 00:08:22,787 --> 00:08:25,507 Speaker 4: quite a small percentage, and so there are a lot 151 00:08:25,547 --> 00:08:27,747 Speaker 4: of games being played where people are really playing their 152 00:08:27,787 --> 00:08:29,827 Speaker 4: part and enjoying the game and respecting those that are 153 00:08:29,867 --> 00:08:30,707 Speaker 4: trying to enable it. 154 00:08:31,107 --> 00:08:34,587 Speaker 2: What is the threshold, Mike, Is it when verbal becomes 155 00:08:34,627 --> 00:08:37,147 Speaker 2: physical or is it a couple of steps back from that? 156 00:08:38,467 --> 00:08:40,467 Speaker 4: A couple of steps back from that in terms of, 157 00:08:41,347 --> 00:08:44,707 Speaker 4: you know, referee appealing and pressure that comes from sidelines 158 00:08:44,707 --> 00:08:47,267 Speaker 4: as people are passionate about the game, that's all part 159 00:08:47,347 --> 00:08:50,107 Speaker 4: of the game. But when it becomes personal and offensive 160 00:08:50,147 --> 00:08:55,787 Speaker 4: and insulting and threatening from closal from Afar that that's 161 00:08:55,867 --> 00:08:58,347 Speaker 4: when we want to start hearing about that because that's 162 00:08:58,387 --> 00:08:59,987 Speaker 4: but not behavior we want to see, and that's not 163 00:09:00,107 --> 00:09:02,867 Speaker 4: role modeling what we want people's experiences and are good 164 00:09:02,867 --> 00:09:03,227 Speaker 4: to look like. 165 00:09:03,747 --> 00:09:06,107 Speaker 2: The incident that led to hot Off another company following 166 00:09:06,147 --> 00:09:09,787 Speaker 2: through in this instance was college game between Company College 167 00:09:10,107 --> 00:09:13,467 Speaker 2: and Marna College. Varying accounts about what played out. Have 168 00:09:13,587 --> 00:09:15,747 Speaker 2: you have you found out what happened at the end 169 00:09:15,787 --> 00:09:16,187 Speaker 2: of that game. 170 00:09:17,947 --> 00:09:20,227 Speaker 4: There's a judicial process that's underway at the moment, and 171 00:09:20,307 --> 00:09:22,227 Speaker 4: that the purpose of that is to get to the 172 00:09:22,267 --> 00:09:25,427 Speaker 4: bottom of what happened in terms of who needs to 173 00:09:25,467 --> 00:09:28,227 Speaker 4: be how accountable for directions. So we need to let 174 00:09:28,227 --> 00:09:33,627 Speaker 4: that run its course, and that's led locally bypany so's 175 00:09:33,987 --> 00:09:35,947 Speaker 4: that's for them to determine and they'll report that in 176 00:09:36,067 --> 00:09:39,387 Speaker 4: time when they've got to the bottom of the estenishal effects. 177 00:09:39,707 --> 00:09:42,987 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard as I have, as I say, 178 00:09:43,107 --> 00:09:46,227 Speaker 2: varying reports here. How do you and I know you're 179 00:09:46,267 --> 00:09:48,827 Speaker 2: not running the investigation that's done by hodophon of a company, 180 00:09:48,867 --> 00:09:51,267 Speaker 2: But how do you get to the bottom of it? 181 00:09:51,347 --> 00:09:54,827 Speaker 2: Because by the sounds of it, here's what I've heard, Mike, 182 00:09:55,067 --> 00:09:57,347 Speaker 2: is that the referee is getting a lot of verbal 183 00:09:57,907 --> 00:10:01,267 Speaker 2: has got frustrated with it all. The game's gone over 184 00:10:01,387 --> 00:10:03,907 Speaker 2: time and Carpany of scored a try which is won 185 00:10:03,947 --> 00:10:07,947 Speaker 2: in the match, and frustration has boiled over. There may 186 00:10:08,067 --> 00:10:10,227 Speaker 2: or may not have been pushed and shove on both sides. 187 00:10:10,667 --> 00:10:12,467 Speaker 2: So how do you actually get to the bottom of 188 00:10:12,507 --> 00:10:14,147 Speaker 2: what's happened here or do you just say, you know what, 189 00:10:14,587 --> 00:10:17,187 Speaker 2: regardless of the situation, there shouldn't be pushed and shove 190 00:10:17,627 --> 00:10:20,347 Speaker 2: or verbal threats coming towards the referee. 191 00:10:22,907 --> 00:10:25,627 Speaker 4: Yeah, so there be the purpose of the judicial investigation, 192 00:10:25,747 --> 00:10:28,467 Speaker 4: which will be handled by the local union that they're 193 00:10:28,507 --> 00:10:30,827 Speaker 4: supported and doing this. We provide some support to them 194 00:10:30,867 --> 00:10:33,907 Speaker 4: around how they do that, to establish all those facts 195 00:10:33,947 --> 00:10:37,467 Speaker 4: and then who needs to be how responsible really, So 196 00:10:37,987 --> 00:10:40,507 Speaker 4: that's effectively how that will work, and that happens in 197 00:10:40,547 --> 00:10:44,787 Speaker 4: any cases from foul play to these sort of incidents 198 00:10:45,867 --> 00:10:49,147 Speaker 4: around the country. Not every weekend, but certainly there'll be 199 00:10:49,587 --> 00:10:52,267 Speaker 4: instances where the judicial processes need to kick in, and 200 00:10:52,347 --> 00:10:53,507 Speaker 4: that's what will happen in this case. 201 00:10:54,027 --> 00:10:55,907 Speaker 2: And just back to the numbers you go before about 202 00:10:56,067 --> 00:11:00,907 Speaker 2: I think you said seventy four cases of complaints being escalated. 203 00:11:01,787 --> 00:11:03,947 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a very small percentage, as you've said, 204 00:11:04,027 --> 00:11:06,507 Speaker 2: isn't it when you consider there's seven thousand games in 205 00:11:06,547 --> 00:11:10,467 Speaker 2: a weekend. So how do you correlate that with canceling 206 00:11:10,507 --> 00:11:14,587 Speaker 2: a whole weekends worth of rugby, which affects hundreds of people, 207 00:11:14,707 --> 00:11:17,347 Speaker 2: young and old because of the actions of so few. 208 00:11:19,507 --> 00:11:22,307 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, as I said, we've been trying to encourage 209 00:11:22,347 --> 00:11:25,667 Speaker 4: more reporting and so HK have their own sense of 210 00:11:25,707 --> 00:11:27,987 Speaker 4: what's happening in their community. That obviously led to the 211 00:11:28,547 --> 00:11:31,067 Speaker 4: warning that they issued some weeks ago now about wanting 212 00:11:31,067 --> 00:11:33,907 Speaker 4: to see improvements and behavior. So they've taken the decision 213 00:11:33,907 --> 00:11:36,707 Speaker 4: based on the evidence that they've got and reports they've 214 00:11:36,707 --> 00:11:40,187 Speaker 4: got around what's been happening in their community. So it's 215 00:11:40,227 --> 00:11:43,187 Speaker 4: a decision. We're back, and we believe that they've got 216 00:11:43,187 --> 00:11:45,427 Speaker 4: all the evidence that they need to make that decision. 217 00:11:46,467 --> 00:11:48,867 Speaker 4: What we're talking about really is the national reporting and 218 00:11:48,987 --> 00:11:53,027 Speaker 4: so trying to see increased reporting flowing through to ends 219 00:11:53,027 --> 00:11:54,347 Speaker 4: that are so that we can sort of help the 220 00:11:54,467 --> 00:11:57,467 Speaker 4: US with trying to determine exactly what can we do 221 00:11:57,667 --> 00:11:59,427 Speaker 4: and what are the trends that are coming through that 222 00:11:59,507 --> 00:12:01,027 Speaker 4: we need to adduce, and how. 223 00:12:01,067 --> 00:12:05,267 Speaker 2: Challenging is recruitment and retention of referees anyway, without the 224 00:12:05,387 --> 00:12:05,667 Speaker 2: sort of. 225 00:12:05,747 --> 00:12:09,267 Speaker 4: Thing, yeah, these things sooner don't help. It's a difficult 226 00:12:09,307 --> 00:12:11,467 Speaker 4: job being in the middle trying to enable the game. 227 00:12:11,627 --> 00:12:16,347 Speaker 4: And we have a lot of referee volunteers that are 228 00:12:16,347 --> 00:12:19,107 Speaker 4: giving out their time to service the game and a 229 00:12:19,187 --> 00:12:22,467 Speaker 4: lot of them are reporting. You know, it's really rewarding 230 00:12:22,507 --> 00:12:25,107 Speaker 4: and satisfying experience. So this really takes the gloss off it, 231 00:12:25,827 --> 00:12:27,947 Speaker 4: and so it doesn't help with retention. It doesn't help 232 00:12:27,987 --> 00:12:31,427 Speaker 4: with recruitment. We have certainly got our own share of 233 00:12:31,507 --> 00:12:35,707 Speaker 4: recruitment challenges. There no secret about that. We've had a 234 00:12:35,827 --> 00:12:38,507 Speaker 4: decrease in numbers that sort of pre COVID that we're 235 00:12:38,547 --> 00:12:41,387 Speaker 4: working to address with the provincial union. So there's a 236 00:12:41,507 --> 00:12:45,307 Speaker 4: number of initiatives underway, both from a recruitment perspective, but 237 00:12:45,347 --> 00:12:48,467 Speaker 4: also how do we improve the retention of our officials. 238 00:12:48,907 --> 00:12:53,467 Speaker 4: So there's program from trying to showcase the great opportunities 239 00:12:53,507 --> 00:12:55,387 Speaker 4: that go with refereeing. So we've got some excellent role 240 00:12:55,467 --> 00:12:59,187 Speaker 4: models both in the men's women's space that showcase that pathway. 241 00:13:00,027 --> 00:13:03,227 Speaker 4: We're trying to show stories around how valuable rewarding it 242 00:13:03,347 --> 00:13:05,507 Speaker 4: is to be able to participate within the white lines 243 00:13:05,547 --> 00:13:10,307 Speaker 4: on a Saturday delivering the game, and then also what 244 00:13:10,387 --> 00:13:13,107 Speaker 4: are the opportunities for young women to get involved in 245 00:13:13,347 --> 00:13:16,187 Speaker 4: for sharing. So there's quite a lot of programs work underway, 246 00:13:16,347 --> 00:13:19,747 Speaker 4: both in terms of recruitment and also retention, but they 247 00:13:19,747 --> 00:13:22,267 Speaker 4: will take time because there's no silver bullet with a 248 00:13:22,347 --> 00:13:24,667 Speaker 4: space that is a long investment. 249 00:13:25,027 --> 00:13:26,707 Speaker 2: All right, we'll keep eyes on the impact that this 250 00:13:26,827 --> 00:13:30,427 Speaker 2: action has in the Holophinemer Company catchment. Thanks so much 251 00:13:30,427 --> 00:13:32,427 Speaker 2: for joining us this afternoon, Mike, really appreciate your time. 252 00:13:32,547 --> 00:13:32,867 Speaker 4: Thicky. 253 00:13:33,147 --> 00:13:35,187 Speaker 2: Thank you Mike. Mike Kester, New Zealand Rugby's head of 254 00:13:35,227 --> 00:13:39,267 Speaker 2: Rugby Participation at community level. Your Chance to React Now 255 00:13:39,347 --> 00:13:42,227 Speaker 2: twelve twenty four oh eight one hundred and eighty ten 256 00:13:42,467 --> 00:13:45,547 Speaker 2: eighty Sideline Abuse of officials at grassroots Sport. 257 00:13:46,267 --> 00:13:49,827 Speaker 1: Off for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen 258 00:13:49,987 --> 00:13:53,587 Speaker 1: live to News Talk ZEDB weekends from midday, or follow 259 00:13:53,627 --> 00:13:55,187 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio