Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News talks'b.
Speaker 2: And welcome back to the Weekend Collective Tim Beverage. And
Speaker 2: if you've missed any of the earlier hours, don't forget.
Speaker 2: You can go and check out a podcast on iHeartRadio
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcast. Let's look all the news
Speaker 2: Talk ZB website. But right now it is time for
Speaker 2: smart money and we want your calls on eight hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty ten eighty. You can text on nine two
Speaker 2: nine two. And my guest in studio, he is a
Speaker 2: regular on the show's an employment expert and employment employment
Speaker 2: what's the word guru? Maybe I don't know, but his
Speaker 2: name is Max Whitehead.
Speaker 3: Max, how are you very good? It's nice to be
Speaker 3: here turned up front and center.
Speaker 2: It Actually, it feels like quite a while since we've
Speaker 2: caught up. Maybe I was away one weekend or something
Speaker 2: when you were on last time, but.
Speaker 3: It feels like that to me. I've been to Queensland,
Speaker 3: I was in Fiji this time yesterday. It was really yeah,
Speaker 3: I've been just enjoying life.
Speaker 2: You've been everywhere, man, Hang on, was that on holiday
Speaker 2: or yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was on holiday?
Speaker 2: Okay, you didn't find a reason. It's like talk employment
Speaker 2: with the hotel employees Texas holiday was.
Speaker 3: Shocked with Fiji, you know, talk about employment, poverty over
Speaker 3: the is this riddled? I was really quite shocked. We
Speaker 3: went off to some villages now at the outback there.
Speaker 3: We don't how lucky we are in New Zealand. We
Speaker 3: really don't. I thought we were economic depression in New Zealand. Wow,
Speaker 3: you want to live over there. There's corrugated iron checks everywhere.
Speaker 2: I guess it's all a game of comparisons when you
Speaker 2: consider New Zealand. Because if some people will say if
Speaker 2: they go to go on holiday and visit Sydney in Melbourne,
Speaker 2: ever wander around, then they come back here and it
Speaker 2: feels like a tumbleweed.
Speaker 3: Well I was quite depressed. But actually for the for
Speaker 3: the for the ordinary people over there, I think they've
Speaker 3: really got it tough. But it also is an awakening
Speaker 3: for me saying, hey, New Zealand is not that bad
Speaker 3: after all. And this was pretty upset with the last
Speaker 3: six years of the previous government. But this one I
Speaker 3: think we're going to show a little bit of promise.
Speaker 3: We're a long way to go and things aren't rosy yet.
Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is, wow, you can pee yourself,
Speaker 3: compare yourself from over there. A couple of coups have
Speaker 3: and help.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think a couple of cups help. Sounds like
Speaker 2: an election slogan, doesn't it For someone who's standing for
Speaker 2: election or something? Those cups of a help. Actually, how
Speaker 2: is the job market looking from your point of view?
Speaker 2: I know that that's not necessarily your bag is to
Speaker 2: survey what's going on, But of course you're constantly dealing
Speaker 2: with people who've got employment issues, whether they be employers
Speaker 2: or employees. Are they particular common issues that are popping
Speaker 2: up at the moment.
Speaker 3: Or really is a fickled market? You know, the job
Speaker 3: fluctuations are going up and down, but actually they still
Speaker 3: come back to the same New Zealand's economy is lifting
Speaker 3: slowly and steadily, but it's struggling at the moment. But
Speaker 3: what's really interesting to me is the fluctuations within the industry.
Speaker 3: Some industries are really booming. It particularly is really going off.
Speaker 3: Computer people that can program computers, those sort of things
Speaker 3: are really really taking off. Then you've got other industries
Speaker 3: who are really really struggling, you know, education, hospitalization, health,
Speaker 3: those sort of things get staff. They just can't get
Speaker 3: on their feet and really struggling.
Speaker 2: Oh, education is struggling to get staff. It's not people
Speaker 2: within the education are struggling to get a job so much.
Speaker 3: Well it's worse tim they're actually leaving and droves. We're
Speaker 3: getting robbed here about Australia, of course, and they are
Speaker 3: up and leaving, and so that's why the industry is
Speaker 3: getting affected so dramatically, and it's a lot of pain
Speaker 3: with it, those particular industries, and of course the government
Speaker 3: departments as well.
Speaker 2: Okay, so if you've got any questions for Max, we'd
Speaker 2: love to hear from you on eight hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: ten eighty. Or if you're asking on behalf of a friend,
Speaker 2: which we sometimes get with them plumbing issues, I think, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm just calling on behalf of a friend. You're welcome
Speaker 2: to do that as well, or text on nine two
Speaker 2: nine two. The first thing I have a chat about,
Speaker 2: Max is the expanding responsibility. So in a situation and
Speaker 2: a company where obviously with tough times and employers have
Speaker 2: had to trim their workforce, but sometimes as a natural
Speaker 2: result of that, they might be in a position where
Speaker 2: or you, as an employee, might be in a position
Speaker 2: where your employer has placed a little bit more responsibility
Speaker 2: on your shoulders. And sometimes that's just something that's welcome.
Speaker 2: It's oh cool, I'm getting to do this, and you
Speaker 2: don't think about whether you should be getting paid more.
Speaker 2: But at what point, because you know people have lost
Speaker 2: their jobs, it's probably the reason you're getting more responsibility.
Speaker 2: At what point should you say to your employer, Hey, look,
Speaker 2: I love that you've given me some extra stuff to do,
Speaker 2: putting your money where your mouth is. How do you
Speaker 2: raise that issue without becoming that employee where it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't ask Bob to do it because he's going
Speaker 2: to ask more money. He's a pain in the backside.
Speaker 3: And this is such a common question. I get it
Speaker 3: quite frequently, and it particularly is, you know, how am
Speaker 3: I going to approach my boss for a pay increase?
Speaker 3: How do I best do it? And you know we've
Speaker 3: talked about this before and here. But the other thing
Speaker 3: is each individual, each employer, he has different aspirations and
Speaker 3: where they are in life. So one thing to consider
Speaker 3: is what are your career aspirations? What is it you're
Speaker 3: trying to achieve? Do you have any goals? Some people
Speaker 3: are quite happy of the role they've got. The other
Speaker 3: thing is to consider, you know, particularly if you're getting
Speaker 3: imposed on with extra responsibility, is what's the company's policies
Speaker 3: in regards to promotion people sitting temporarily in roles? You know,
Speaker 3: is there a period of time you go through those policies,
Speaker 3: Because sometimes companies will say you cover a role for
Speaker 3: a period of time and you can take it to
Speaker 3: a degree of ownership or extra money for them.
Speaker 2: I guess the thing is an employer might say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I've given you this to do, but you're still arriving
Speaker 2: at work at a half past eight and going home
Speaker 2: at five o'clock same hours. Suck it up, baby, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, just consider yourself lucky. They're not. No employees
Speaker 2: going to employers should say this. I'm being deliberately mischievous,
Speaker 2: but the subtext is basically, hey, look, we aren't asked you,
Speaker 2: just asking you to stay any longer. Your job's are a
Speaker 2: bit more interesting. I'm afraid we can't pay anymore. So
Speaker 2: do you want this extra more interesting work or do
Speaker 2: you want us to give it to someone else?
Speaker 3: And you've captured it? Because most employers now are struggling
Speaker 3: right now, they're struggling to actually pay anybody anymore. So
Speaker 3: the other thing is people out there now you're going
Speaker 3: to be as common as anything. So just prepare yourself
Speaker 3: for this. So here's five tips. If you're going to
Speaker 3: be approached by somebody, by your boss, thiss are the
Speaker 3: things you got to do. Get some clarity in terms
Speaker 3: of what they expect from you. So ask them what
Speaker 3: success looks like those things. That's tip one. So get
Speaker 3: some actually.
Speaker 2: That is that is extra important, I would imagine, because
Speaker 2: you know what I reckon. Most of the time, problems
Speaker 2: between employers and employees come when one when they're not
Speaker 2: communicating clearly, because then you leave it up to your imagination.
Speaker 2: So if your boss has said to you, can you
Speaker 2: do this extra but cover this for us because you
Speaker 2: know we're still we're a bit short on staff. We
Speaker 2: need you to look at this particular issue and take
Speaker 2: responsibility for this. They don't say anything else, and you think, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: but inside you going, of course I'm going to do this.
Speaker 2: Of course my boss is going to be he's really
Speaker 2: going to appreciate me, appreciate me for this, and it's
Speaker 2: going to mean X, Y and Z. But if you
Speaker 2: haven't said that to your boss, that person's probably just like,
Speaker 2: oh great, we've got it covered.
Speaker 3: Move on exactly. So the other points will cover that.
Speaker 3: I just want to one just for fun clarity expectations.
Speaker 3: It is really important because what's your boss looking for?
Speaker 3: And if you look if you're covering looking after other staff,
Speaker 3: is that a factor for the other boss for the
Speaker 3: boss to actually consider, you know, ask those questions and
Speaker 3: get to the bottom of it now. Zero point two.
Speaker 3: Set a time frame really important here because you might say, well,
Speaker 3: I'm happy to cover because I appreciate you see me
Speaker 3: having that ability to do that, But how about we
Speaker 3: review it at the end of say one month, maybe
Speaker 3: two months, maybe three months, so those that time frame
Speaker 3: is the second point. The third point is really important
Speaker 3: for me is document what you're doing. So when you're
Speaker 3: sitting in the role, you'll so busy doing the role
Speaker 3: and trying to do it properly and do it well.
Speaker 3: Because you're new at it, you forget. But really interesting
Speaker 3: for your CV because you've actually covered, stepped up, you're
Speaker 3: doing more more responsibility. Now more importantly, if you actually
Speaker 3: do get some achievements in that role. Just log those
Speaker 3: as well, because you will forget those. But when it
Speaker 3: comes to payroll time and you need to put a
Speaker 3: proposal to the boss, it's very important to put that now.
Speaker 3: The other thing is regular check ins of your boss.
Speaker 3: Will asking for a fortnightly or a monthly meeting ever,
Speaker 3: just to check and ask that question, how am I going?
Speaker 3: Are you happy? Is anything I can do better? Those
Speaker 3: are the three questions you should be asking your boss.
Speaker 2: See that's four. Actually I think that was larity time
Speaker 2: frame document. I thought you said we had five for you.
Speaker 3: You have wait for it. In case you get your
Speaker 3: butt have more wait for them. There's more. Evaluate your
Speaker 3: options is the fifth one. So if at the end
Speaker 3: of a period of time you're getting nowhere, there's no
Speaker 3: pay rise, or you're not getting a promotion, there's no
Speaker 3: talk of promotion, then I think you need to evaluate
Speaker 3: what you're going to do. Now. What you could do
Speaker 3: is put a formal proposal to your boss and even
Speaker 3: put that in writing, saying, look, I've stood up, been
Speaker 3: up here in this role for a period of time.
Speaker 3: How about you know we give some consideration to me
Speaker 3: moving up, or maybe we're making a role here for example,
Speaker 3: you're filling in for your boss who's away, and you're
Speaker 3: filling in for his role, Then put say to it,
Speaker 3: why don't you say the propose that you get a
Speaker 3: pay increase for that period of time you do step
Speaker 3: up from time to time to give your boss more
Speaker 3: time off and make the place more productive.
Speaker 2: Okay, if I in a way so like, I look
Speaker 2: at some of those and if somebody did do all
Speaker 2: that and I was an employer, I'd be thinking, oh gosh,
Speaker 2: that persons so high maintenance. I just asked him to
Speaker 2: do a couple of extra things, and now he wants
Speaker 2: to get paid more. Is he wants to me to
Speaker 2: have regular check ins with him? So needy? What a pain?
Speaker 3: Well let me just I guess and evaluate the options.
Speaker 3: Is another point I want to make here is maybe
Speaker 3: you consider moving on that's going off and having to
Speaker 3: look at another role. Because if you ain't going to get
Speaker 3: anywhere in your own business and you've had a test
Speaker 3: run and nothing's happening, well you might have to think
Speaker 3: about that. But look, the other thing is your approach
Speaker 3: to your boss. There's nothing worse than a winging, moaning, complaining.
Speaker 2: That's the catch, isn't it. It's how to be that
Speaker 2: employer who stands up for themselves without being that employee
Speaker 2: who's just like, oh, here they come again. What's the problem?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know exactly. So the way to approach that
Speaker 3: is to look at it from them boss's perspective. The
Speaker 3: word that they love to hear bosses is I'm making
Speaker 3: this role more productive. I'm getting more out of the
Speaker 3: other guys. I'm actually using my initiatives a lot more.
Speaker 3: Those sort of things. Put that in front of the
Speaker 3: boss and saying, look, I think I'm actually doing well
Speaker 3: for you here. What's your thoughts on this? And they
Speaker 3: do lap it up, and particularly if they and identified
Speaker 3: it and you have you consist put it, they actually
Speaker 3: think later on, oh I thought of that. But you
Speaker 3: could say initiative, I'm using it. The fact that I'm
Speaker 3: more assertive with the workers and they're actually producing a
Speaker 3: lot more and working right up to the timeline rather
Speaker 3: than going off and washing their hands before the end
Speaker 3: of the day. You know, those sort of things are
Speaker 3: saying I really am getting this place working a lot
Speaker 3: better and smoother. The relationships with the workers is better
Speaker 3: than it was. You know, those sort of things sell yourself.
Speaker 2: Keeping the record of what you're doing is not many
Speaker 2: people would probably think of that, would they They'd just
Speaker 2: be doing their job. Just keep a diary, just this
Speaker 2: is what I did today, or these are the extra
Speaker 2: things I did, and just keep a casual note, not
Speaker 2: like you're looking to take it to the employment sort
Speaker 2: of quarter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, And the idea is not to sit
Speaker 3: there and go, look how great I am. It's goat
Speaker 3: to put it in a context, which is good for
Speaker 3: the boss. You're saying, I actually have noticed in the
Speaker 3: past that this and this isn't happening. So I've taken
Speaker 3: initiative your boss and done this and this and this.
Speaker 3: I hope you don't knowing that they'll be so pleased
Speaker 3: with you. But it's actually just to bring it to
Speaker 3: their attention. Now the boss may not even say well done,
Speaker 3: but I'll tell you what, they'll take it away.
Speaker 2: There's also advice for employers on this side of things too,
Speaker 2: because you can probably avoid having an employee sort of
Speaker 2: be nipping at your heels on this stuff if you
Speaker 2: just say, hey, look, i'd like you to take on
Speaker 2: some extra responsibilities and this is how it's going to work.
Speaker 2: And if the employer is clear with the employee, then
Speaker 2: that gives less sort of room for disgruntlement and misunderstanding
Speaker 2: and all that isn't it well?
Speaker 3: And the other factor is give it a go. If
Speaker 3: somebody is stepping up for a period of time, you
Speaker 3: actually want to need to grow your workforce. And if
Speaker 3: you're going to give somebody a go in that senior role,
Speaker 3: give them a go, give them some appreciation for it,
Speaker 3: and chose some gratitude for it as well. And it
Speaker 3: may be just a temporary Oh look, I'm happy to
Speaker 3: give you an extra twenty dollars a week, or maybe
Speaker 3: one hundred dollars a week. Whatever the help, whatever the
Speaker 3: role is. But those things will always help. And of
Speaker 3: course it runs both ways. So you're going to get
Speaker 3: more productivity, you're going to get a more excited workforce,
Speaker 3: and you want people.
Speaker 2: Actually you are.
Speaker 3: Going to go there's an opportunity for me you make
Speaker 3: perhaps in the long run.
Speaker 2: Okay, look, we'd love to take your calls as well
Speaker 2: as to I mean, you are you in that situation where,
Speaker 2: because of the shrinking workforce at your place, you've had
Speaker 2: to take on more responsibilities. You've got an issue you
Speaker 2: like to run past not me, but Max on eight
Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty give us a call text nine
Speaker 2: two nine two. But also Max is happy to help
Speaker 2: you with any employment questions you might have or issues.
Speaker 2: And they don't necessarily need to be legal about legal questions.
Speaker 2: They might just be some pragmatic advice. And I don't
Speaker 2: know how to bring such and such up, or I
Speaker 2: don't know how to deal with this little issue because
Speaker 2: I'm just afraid to make from my mouth. If you've
Speaker 2: got any questions, we want to hear from you. Eight
Speaker 2: hundred eighty ten eighty text nine. It's twenty one past
Speaker 2: five News Talks.
Speaker 4: You'd be.
Speaker 3: Already apose just how to take.
Speaker 2: Conversation, guess, Welcome back to the news Talks of the
Speaker 2: This is smart Money. We're talking employment issues with Max
Speaker 2: Whitehead and let's take some calls, right Nicola, Hello, Hello, Nichola.
Speaker 4: Makes Hi Max. Hey, I've got a question about a
Speaker 4: company sale. My son works for a company. They've advised
Speaker 4: the staff that they're selling the company. They've got a buyer,
Speaker 4: potential buyer that they're negotiating with. The leader that he's
Speaker 4: received says, your employment under your current contract will come
Speaker 4: to an end on the date which settlement occurs, and
Speaker 4: that they're negotiating to keep the current employees with the
Speaker 4: new owner. The wording in this letter says employment will
Speaker 4: continue while negotiation is ongoing. Some staff at the company
Speaker 4: are wondering whether this is the case of a redundancy or.
Speaker 3: Not, and it well could be. If in fact your
Speaker 3: son loses his job, it could be a redundancy situation.
Speaker 3: And of course the next question that comes with that, Nickeler,
Speaker 3: is what compensation could he receive?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: The answer to that question is whatever's in his contract.
Speaker 3: If there's nothing written in there, there's not really much
Speaker 3: they could do about it. Now. The other thing I
Speaker 3: need to just clarify with you is the law requires
Speaker 3: a seller of a business like this and your son's
Speaker 3: current employer to advise them that they're going through this process,
Speaker 3: and he's trying to comply with the law. Your son
Speaker 3: could legitimately ask more questions, what's going on? Can I
Speaker 3: send clarity in terms of my role please? And how
Speaker 3: certain and secure is my role? And can I have
Speaker 3: that by and put it in writing? Put it in
Speaker 3: writing to them, Nicola. I think it's very important and
Speaker 3: I can understand your son, you've and yourself being a
Speaker 3: bit anxious about this.
Speaker 4: Yes, all right, okay, so it's a bit of a
Speaker 4: case by case depending on the contract and this to do.
Speaker 4: Use email and get some things in writing.
Speaker 3: Yep. And I would even ask can I please meet
Speaker 3: with the potential new employer and they can meet me
Speaker 3: and we can talk about what, you know, before they
Speaker 3: make any decisions where they employ me, they can get
Speaker 3: to meet me. I think that's a reasonable question. It
Speaker 3: doesn't They don't have a legal obligation to do it,
Speaker 3: but to put it in front of them and if
Speaker 3: they said no, well we could look at you know,
Speaker 3: not acting in good faith, but we could see how
Speaker 3: that goes.
Speaker 4: Yes, all right, thank you, Max.
Speaker 3: Good luck, Nichola, Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thanks Nikola. Got lots of texts here because actually understand
Speaker 2: what sometimes people don't want their voices on radio, but
Speaker 2: they about these issues through a right. Okay, here we go. Question.
Speaker 2: I'm on a three month trial. They can give me
Speaker 2: twenty four hours notice to counsel my employment. Can I
Speaker 2: do the same And this is the catch. My contract
Speaker 2: says I need to give four weeks notice. Thanks James.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately you have to give four weeks notice. Yeah, that
Speaker 3: really does seem unfair, and a quite often contracts say
Speaker 3: that you some period. Some people actually have contracts to
Speaker 3: say you're going to give three months notice and we
Speaker 3: can say goodbye to you in one month.
Speaker 2: That seems a bit strange because that's the ninety day
Speaker 2: termination clause to give employers the the I mean, sorry,
Speaker 2: it's the you know, the first three months of a contract.
Speaker 2: This is the government's broad in that thing that you
Speaker 2: can terminate.
Speaker 3: So that's optional tim that it's only it's only enforceable
Speaker 3: if the parties have agreed to it. Now, this is
Speaker 3: the key to all these questions, because have you agreed
Speaker 3: to have give three months notice or two months or
Speaker 3: four weeks and you can continue. You can say to
Speaker 3: your employer, hey, I'm not happy with that. I'd like
Speaker 3: to have the same as you. Seems to be equal rights.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, here's the thing. If you're in a job
Speaker 2: of that nature, what remedies are there really for an
Speaker 2: employer when you just go stuff? There's some matter here,
Speaker 2: because I mean, it's just is it a meaningful clause
Speaker 2: when they say we want four weeks notice? Because if
Speaker 2: you're in that sort of contract, we are on a
Speaker 2: three month trial and you don't like it. I mean,
Speaker 2: if they say, well, look, we still want you to
Speaker 2: stick it out, and you say, well, I'm not going to,
Speaker 2: is there a way of you going well, there's a
Speaker 2: reason I'm not going to.
Speaker 3: Because look, I mean I get to ask this question
Speaker 3: by workers all the time. Can I look, I've got
Speaker 3: another job lined up and they want me now, can
Speaker 3: I just go and I go back to the thing,
Speaker 3: what's your contracts? Say? Because you've got on a bound
Speaker 3: of the contract. Now, if you're the employer right now,
Speaker 3: and look, a lot of them be listening to this,
Speaker 3: you can sue that worker for breach of contract, and
Speaker 3: there can be some quite severe consequences for it. But
Speaker 3: the cost to sue over a breach of contract quite
Speaker 3: often the judiciary are pretty lenient and they'll just go
Speaker 3: all okay when they could lose one week's pay or
Speaker 3: two weeks pay and goodness, meaning it's no good to
Speaker 3: any employer who's just spent thousands of dollars on litigation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's why I was wondering, because pragmatically, I mean,
Speaker 2: what who wants to go through any legal process? Really?
Speaker 2: You want the path of least resistance because you're running
Speaker 2: a business. I had.
Speaker 3: A client who owned gyms right through New Zealand, and
Speaker 3: with the gyms, they had a problem because people were
Speaker 3: just up and walk off. They wouldn't give their notice period,
Speaker 3: so it became such a problem. Max, we're engaging you.
Speaker 3: The next time this occurs, we're going to sue them,
Speaker 3: and we want to make an example to all the rest.
Speaker 3: You bridge a contract, there's consequences.
Speaker 2: Actually, what does this remind me of? Oh, it reminds
Speaker 2: me of rugby contracts when people went there some players
Speaker 2: who are like, I want out and I'm just going
Speaker 2: to go and play in Japan or something or whatever,
Speaker 2: and they seem to just being able to allow to
Speaker 2: do it. And I sort of like what I was thinking,
Speaker 2: rugby union, why don't you just say no, actually no
Speaker 2: you're not going or that whatever the union was. But
Speaker 2: of course they would say, well, there's no point trying
Speaker 2: to force a player to stay if they don't want
Speaker 2: to be there. I'm I don't know, I'd like to
Speaker 2: see someone try that out. YEA, Well, what are they
Speaker 2: going to play badly and then reduce their own value?
Speaker 3: Well, you look at the top top top players, and
Speaker 3: they pay millions of dollars or so for them to
Speaker 3: come across. So you'll find that they've got some very
Speaker 3: severe clauses in there, but they don't seem to be enforced.
Speaker 2: As one pointer. Sometimes they just I've.
Speaker 3: Seen employers come back and saying, look, I put it,
Speaker 3: I've got a restraint to trade in. The worker who
Speaker 3: I'm so pleased to see the backup has come to
Speaker 3: me and said, what about the restraint? Bosses?
Speaker 4: Do it?
Speaker 3: Is that enforceable? And quite frankly, no, I reckon I'd
Speaker 3: actually promote them to the opposition because that would help
Speaker 3: me more. Okay, god's the cynic well that could be
Speaker 3: saved with sport as well, couldn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah? Indeed, yeah right, I'm just checking the time here,
Speaker 2: it's twenty nine minutes to six. If I'm still within
Speaker 2: my aunty day trial and I'm off on ACC for
Speaker 2: two months, can my employer let me go under the
Speaker 2: ninety day trial?
Speaker 3: And the answer that is yes. Unfortunately, they don't actually
Speaker 3: have to tell you the reason, and can they do
Speaker 3: it legitimately? It's pretty harsh that ninety day trial period,
Speaker 3: it really is.
Speaker 2: But actually, if you're on ACC, You're still getting some
Speaker 2: money through ACC, aren't you. How does that work?
Speaker 3: Lost lost income? You are and ACC will continue to
Speaker 3: pay you. So that's really in your favorite to some
Speaker 3: degree as well. But you know, the employee can say goodbye, sorry,
Speaker 3: you're accident prone, you've got injuries. You're not actually coming
Speaker 3: up to the post for way we want you, so cheerio.
Speaker 2: Okay, what about this? This is probably more of a
Speaker 2: political question from Ken what happens when an employer wants
Speaker 2: only slave labor immigrants so they don't have to comply
Speaker 2: with the ra LS health and safety requirements. It's a
Speaker 2: widespread issue. So this is basically just saying about employees
Speaker 2: who aren't following the law, isn't it? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And that happens an awful light. So and it really is, unfortunately,
Speaker 3: because I see a lot of it. It's where they
Speaker 3: quite often it's not from an overseas employer. They come
Speaker 3: from that particular country and they'll employ people knowing that
Speaker 3: they can abuse them, and then they actually threaten them
Speaker 3: as well. I mean I've had a case where I
Speaker 3: called it slave labor, and it certainly was saying if you,
Speaker 3: if you complained to anybody about this, then you'll be
Speaker 3: deported and you get nothing. And also you're in breach
Speaker 3: of your visa. You could find yourself locked up in
Speaker 3: jail here. And of course the countries they come from
Speaker 3: are pretty harsh regimes and they believe it, so they
Speaker 3: just sit here and actually get paid below the minimum wage.
Speaker 3: It's awful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is an awkward one because there's no the
Speaker 2: incentive for a whistleblower in those circumstances. Well, there's not
Speaker 2: much incentive, is it, Because you are in a job
Speaker 2: which maybe is exploiting you, but you have employment. If
Speaker 2: you blow the whistle, you're out of a job, and
Speaker 2: who's going to thank you for it?
Speaker 3: And look, I mean that was going to make myself unpopular.
Speaker 3: But I had five clients that came to me from
Speaker 3: a liquor store and they were exactly what was happening.
Speaker 3: They were getting about two dollars an hour yea, and
Speaker 3: their visa said that they are and they were students
Speaker 3: as well, they weren't supposed to be working the hours,
Speaker 3: and they said, we have to. Our boss tells us
Speaker 3: we have to work beyond that, and if we don't,
Speaker 3: he's going to dob us in for breach of visas
Speaker 3: and he's got us. And then I said, all right,
Speaker 3: well look I can. I can act for you. But
Speaker 3: of course it gets to a point even with me,
Speaker 3: I can't do everything for nothing. So I said, go
Speaker 3: to the Department of Labor. They can represent you. They
Speaker 3: did that. Three years later, the Department Labor said, have
Speaker 3: you been in touch of these guys? I said no,
Speaker 3: I think they've gone back to their home country. And
Speaker 3: they said, well, oh yeah, Well I've just won one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars between them, but they've gone
Speaker 3: so it's too late.
Speaker 2: So how they won how much.
Speaker 3: One hundred and fifty thousand dollars between five of them?
Speaker 2: Well, actually, I mean it sounds like that's quite a
Speaker 2: good award, but that's not gonna last. All.
Speaker 3: The thing is, tim is the judiciary are really bad here.
Speaker 3: And I've got a client now, a well known New
Speaker 3: Zealander that we all know, and she's had to wait
Speaker 3: four years for the Employment Authority to come up to
Speaker 3: say she had a case. That's all they did in
Speaker 3: four years. And I've actually taken it to the court
Speaker 3: now because we just can't believe how this has just
Speaker 3: been stretched out for so long, So four years no
Speaker 3: pay and she's asking just to be paid. And with that,
Speaker 3: even the employment the judiciary even said that she has
Speaker 3: to pay costs for actually asking other people to be accountable.
Speaker 2: Gosh. You know what it sort of highlights is that
Speaker 2: if you can, if you can try and a step,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's probably not a reasonable comment actually,
Speaker 2: but just if you ever have to go to court
Speaker 2: on something, it's it's just the least desirable thing. Always
Speaker 2: try and I mean just communicate, communicate, communicating to get
Speaker 2: an understanding.
Speaker 3: And that's that in terms of lawyer folks. So I
Speaker 3: would concur completely with that, because it really is. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's very nice to go around and threaten people. They
Speaker 3: all take you to court. You don't step if you
Speaker 3: step out of line. It's not peaches and cream. It
Speaker 3: really can be difficult.
Speaker 2: Now because I mean there are things like the well,
Speaker 2: of course, the disputes to be on heir, employment disputes
Speaker 2: and there are so if you do want to take action,
Speaker 2: whether you're an employer or an employee, it's expensive from
Speaker 2: day one, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because the low level judiciary in the court
Speaker 3: is called the employment authority and they've become like a
Speaker 3: mini High court and they conduct their hearings of such
Speaker 3: a sophistication levels that you need. You'd be a fool
Speaker 3: to go in there without having support and somebody to
Speaker 3: guide you through it.
Speaker 2: And look, are you allowed a lawyer the employment authority?
Speaker 3: Yes, oh you are, yeah, And that's what they have
Speaker 3: to do to survive. Otherwise your dog's dinner to anyone
Speaker 3: who's on the other side, they would just each of
Speaker 3: for breakfast. And the judics is stressful. The judiciary supports this.
Speaker 3: A whole legal industry is like this right now. There's
Speaker 3: no more justice for the ordinary man in the street,
Speaker 3: ordinary man or woman in the street. It really is.
Speaker 3: And there's a guy from the United Kingdom said this
Speaker 3: over fifteen years ago. He said, there's no justice anymore
Speaker 3: for common law for the average person. You have to
Speaker 3: be very, very wealthy to get some advantages on it.
Speaker 3: But that's the way mediation seems to go. I'm getting
Speaker 3: worked up, worked up here, but this is the truth.
Speaker 3: So in mediation it works out for the party. So
Speaker 3: some party may be in a winning position. Say it's
Speaker 3: a worker, Hey, worker, do you realize if your boss
Speaker 3: appealed any decision we might make here that they could
Speaker 3: take it off to so and so judiciary. Could you
Speaker 3: afford that? How much would Max's costs be if you
Speaker 3: had to supply defend yourself within that judiciary? Oh? X dollars?
Speaker 3: I haven't got that. Well, then maybe you should just
Speaker 3: settle for a few hundred dollars here.
Speaker 4: God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole separate question, isn't it. What's the
Speaker 2: most effective way to resolve an employment dispuite without it
Speaker 2: costing either side a fortune?
Speaker 3: And that comes down to money, and that's not the
Speaker 3: right thing it should be.
Speaker 2: Also the costs thing as well. The unfortunate thing is
Speaker 2: that if you are you think you've got a legitimate grievance,
Speaker 2: but say it doesn't go your way. You haven't taken
Speaker 2: a vexatious claim, You've just taken them. You've tried to
Speaker 2: stand up for yourself. But if you lose, you're up
Speaker 2: for costs for the other side, aren't you. Which to
Speaker 2: me it's true, which to me does feel wrong. I
Speaker 2: wonder if that needs to be revisited.
Speaker 3: A little absolutely particular case I mentioned before, where a
Speaker 3: person just as for their wages. Yeah, and she's got
Speaker 3: a cost now of sixteen thousand dollars to the judiciary
Speaker 3: for asking for wages, and four years later it hasn't
Speaker 3: received a cent blind assent.
Speaker 2: Right, We'll take your calls though, all your text. We've
Speaker 2: got plenty of a few text questions to get into
Speaker 2: as well. If you want to give us a call
Speaker 2: and jump, you will jump the queue and be next up.
Speaker 2: It's twenty two minutes to Sex News Talks.
Speaker 3: D B, a part of from Now, From now, Yeah,
Speaker 3: get hold of me. It does z B, but no,
Speaker 3: give me a call. We'll go dub dub dub, Whitehead
Speaker 3: Group dot co dot NZ or just give me a call.
Speaker 3: On twenty four to seven ninety three ninety three.
Speaker 2: There was an eight hundred before that. Isn't that?
Speaker 3: There is no? Yeah, you got me right, eight hundred
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 2: I eight hundred twenty four seven ninety three ninety three,
Speaker 2: which is quite easy to remember because our text is
Speaker 2: nine two nine two and so it's just inflationary on
Speaker 2: that nine three nine three. So I eight hundred twenty
Speaker 2: four seven nine three nine three.
Speaker 3: Go there we go. Oh, so please for the facts
Speaker 3: talk to Tim.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, question for Max finished job end of March five,
Speaker 2: weeks holiday pay received approximately half in April, but nothing since.
Speaker 2: Despite a number of emails to employer, no further money received.
Speaker 2: Nora replies to my emails, what can I do? Thanks Katie?
Speaker 3: Right, there's consequences for that. You should get hold of
Speaker 3: somebody like myself. And well, you can even lodge it
Speaker 3: yourself as a wage areas claim. That's what it's called
Speaker 3: wage areas claim. And you can lodge an application to
Speaker 3: the employment authority and ask for them to intervene.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so it's not such a litigious situation. It's
Speaker 2: more of a here's my wages they haven't paid me, boom.
Speaker 3: Boom, and what should happen? First, I've asked for Actually,
Speaker 3: you can do this at all. At the same time,
Speaker 3: ask for the wage and time records. Your employer's got
Speaker 3: to give it to you, and that should specify how
Speaker 3: much money you've been paid. Then you've got a formal
Speaker 3: record of it. If your employer fails to provide that,
Speaker 3: that's another there's another problem for the employer. That's another penalty.
Speaker 3: So you get some advice on this. If you're finding
Speaker 3: this a bit complicated. If not, go to the online
Speaker 3: and you can lodge an application yourself with the Employment
Speaker 3: Relations Authority.
Speaker 2: Okay, good stuff, right, here's another one. This might be
Speaker 2: a tax question. I get paid a car allowance by
Speaker 2: the company. I know other companies give part of this
Speaker 2: tax car allowance is tax free. However, my company will
Speaker 2: not pay any part of this allowances tax free. In
Speaker 2: other words, they're giving them the money, but there taxing.
Speaker 2: At Where do I stand and who do I speak
Speaker 2: to to rectify this? Because it does sound like you
Speaker 2: expe I.
Speaker 3: Think it takes expenses though, and it's arguable with the
Speaker 3: IID what's compensation? But this sounds very much like compensation.
Speaker 3: So if you're using your own vehicle and they're giving
Speaker 3: you a car allowance, then you're being compensated. Means you're
Speaker 3: not making profit out of it. You're being compensated. And
Speaker 3: if the IID recognize that. By the way, the IID
Speaker 3: even publish what is a reasonable rate for you to
Speaker 3: be paid? So I think there's a lot of support
Speaker 3: for you within the IID to say that it's a
Speaker 3: tax free amount amount of money. But look, go and
Speaker 3: ring them and contact them and ask them that question.
Speaker 2: Actually, the ID probably quite helpful with that. I would imagine.
Speaker 2: And also if you've got that response from the inland Revenue,
Speaker 2: they might be able to provide you with a letter
Speaker 2: just saying this is not necessary. And then you know.
Speaker 3: They used to provide a guidance online for what is
Speaker 3: reasonable compensation for using a vehicle.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they probably still do. Actually, but yeah, I'm.
Speaker 3: Sure they do because it's a common common matter.
Speaker 2: I found that every time, by the way I found
Speaker 2: whether I have to deal with the ID and if
Speaker 2: they've asked me a question, I come back to them
Speaker 2: and chat with them. It's that I've always found them
Speaker 2: thoroughly reasonable to deal with. I think the idea that
Speaker 2: the taxman is like having a conversation with the executioner.
Speaker 3: You know, I think the days have gone. But the
Speaker 3: other thing is if you've got a friendly accountant, you know,
Speaker 3: or somebody who's wealthy in that world, and we'll go
Speaker 3: and talk to them. But certainly compensation, say the word compensation.
Speaker 3: I'm being compensated for using my own vehicle.
Speaker 2: Okay, this one, oh, I think this is a curly one.
Speaker 2: I if somebody's on a casual contract and goes permanent
Speaker 2: after they've been with the company for more than three months,
Speaker 2: so okay, they'm in casual for a few months, then
Speaker 2: they go permanent. Does the ninety day trial rule apply
Speaker 2: the or.
Speaker 3: The answer to that is no, unless you've agreed to it.
Speaker 3: So a couple of things of the ninety day tripoo
Speaker 3: you have to be a brand new employee. You can't
Speaker 3: do it for a day of work, or you come
Speaker 3: back and work for them once before, so that that is.
Speaker 3: And also you've got to agree to it. It's got
Speaker 3: to be in writing, and you've got to sign off
Speaker 3: agreement to it.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm guessing if somebody on account I'm just
Speaker 2: rereading this text, yes it doesn't apply, but make sure
Speaker 2: you don't sign anything that does.
Speaker 3: Because many casual contracts out there with no ninety day
Speaker 3: troll period. So you probably haven't got one.
Speaker 2: Okay. Hi an employment question, Well that's good because that's
Speaker 2: what makes us here. For my contract, says employer, key
Speaker 2: we saber at three percent no reference to as required
Speaker 2: by law. I'm nearly sixty five. Can they stop keiwi
Speaker 2: saber on my sixty fifth birthday? Or doers the contract
Speaker 2: still cover it because it specifically says three percent key
Speaker 2: we saber, So I think the law is that with no,
Speaker 2: with no proviso that they don't have to pay a
Speaker 2: contribution after sixty five. But does the contract stipulating it
Speaker 2: without any other reference, does that change the game.
Speaker 3: There's a clear rule here, Tim, and I'm sure you
Speaker 3: know what I'm going to say here.
Speaker 2: No, don't.
Speaker 3: You can't contract outside the law. So if the law
Speaker 3: says that you don't get key we Saver after the
Speaker 3: age of sixty five, then you don't, and they can't
Speaker 3: write a contract that says otherwise and then take that
Speaker 3: money off you.
Speaker 2: So I mean, hang on, say that again. I get
Speaker 2: my head.
Speaker 3: Can't contract. You can't contract outside the law. You can't say,
Speaker 3: for example, I'm writing a contract here and you can
Speaker 3: go and murder someone it will if you wanted to.
Speaker 3: So that's what I'm saying is you can't contract outside
Speaker 3: of law. So something like the key we Saver and
Speaker 3: we're going to keep taking it out of your pay
Speaker 3: when the law doesn't allow them to. So first off,
Speaker 3: there's the wages protection it that prevents employees from taking
Speaker 3: helping themselves to your pay.
Speaker 2: Oh, actually, I guess I was reading into this that
Speaker 2: they pay extra on top of your normal rate too
Speaker 2: as a contracted thing to cover key we saver as
Speaker 2: opposed to taking it. Maybe you're right, so that would
Speaker 2: be different.
Speaker 3: They've written down key we saber, haven't they know.
Speaker 2: Because that comes out of your pay as opposed. Oh no, okay,
Speaker 2: I think they're talking about an employer contribution. That'll be it.
Speaker 2: So there's often a contract where you have you know,
Speaker 2: you're putting four, three or four percent, and the employer says,
Speaker 2: and we'll top that up as well as part of
Speaker 2: your contract by another three or four percent. Okay, that's
Speaker 2: the question.
Speaker 3: So in that particular case, if it's in your favor
Speaker 3: and the law, the employer can provide you as extra
Speaker 3: money as much as they like.
Speaker 2: But if it's in this contract, even though they're turned
Speaker 2: sixty five, unless I'd think you'd still get it. It's
Speaker 2: part of your employment. But it does sound slightly content,
Speaker 2: but it's.
Speaker 3: Taking it out of your paint. No, but certainly for
Speaker 3: them to give you extra money, they probably still didn't
Speaker 3: pay you. Go back and say, look at the contract.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think we found our answer there, didn't we.
Speaker 3: Well, we doubled around.
Speaker 2: We eventually Hi, my employer of fourteen years went into receivership.
Speaker 2: I requested my employment contract, but they were unable to
Speaker 2: locate the contract. My employer agrees on the fact that
Speaker 2: there was a contract signed on employment and we have
Speaker 2: re signed a new copy of the contract. I had
Speaker 2: a redundancy clause in the contract. Our contracts were canceled
Speaker 2: by the receivers and we signed new contracts with the receivers. God,
Speaker 2: this is complicated. I left the business after two months
Speaker 2: with the receivers and the businesses now closed. The receivers
Speaker 2: have not offered me my redundancy in my preferential claim.
Speaker 2: Do I have a right to the redundancy? Oh my god?
Speaker 2: That did sound like a signing contract with the employer,
Speaker 2: then resigning, then resigning a contract with the receivers.
Speaker 3: This is complicated, and the powers of receivers is quite enormous,
Speaker 3: but it's actually been challenged recently. I think in the
Speaker 3: employment judiciary a receiver actually exercising powers because they flicked
Speaker 3: people off just a will. And I think you would
Speaker 3: be worthy to get some proper come and have a
Speaker 3: talk to me, or have someone to have a talk
Speaker 3: with these and gives the facts as they can roll out.
Speaker 3: Because this is quite complicated by the sound of it.
Speaker 3: A receiver cancel a contract, Well, who says they can?
Speaker 2: That's quite weird.
Speaker 3: I mean if a receiver is trying to keep the
Speaker 3: company still alive.
Speaker 2: Well, hang on, here's the thing that I think is
Speaker 2: in this person's favor too. Our contracts were canceled by
Speaker 2: the receivers and we signed new are new contracts that
Speaker 2: probably didn't have the redundancy. Told well more for you then, okay,
Speaker 2: that might be a proper It.
Speaker 3: Says you have agreed to not have it. So yeah,
Speaker 3: that was possibly be right. And we stumbled on that
Speaker 3: one as well.
Speaker 2: We got there it eventually. Hey, look we got to
Speaker 2: take a break. It is nine minutes to six. This
Speaker 2: is news Talk, said B. Yes, Newstalk, said b. This
Speaker 2: is this is smart money with Tim Beverage. We have
Speaker 2: but we have been chatting with and he's still here,
Speaker 2: Max Whitehead.
Speaker 3: He won't leave.
Speaker 2: We can't get rid of him. Actually, we've got one
Speaker 2: more quick text. Hi, there was wondering if a company
Speaker 2: has a clause in an employment agreement that says the
Speaker 2: employee can't work in that industry amount for x amount
Speaker 2: of time after leaving the company. Well, it's a restraint
Speaker 2: of trade clause. How enforceable are they? That's from leson.
Speaker 3: Depends on your role, the skill levels you've got. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of depends that depends and did you enter
Speaker 3: into that contract reasonably and fairly? Did we able to
Speaker 3: get advice. There's quite a lot of conditions you need
Speaker 3: to get further advice on this, but be wary of
Speaker 3: them because a lot of people today think they're not enforceable,
Speaker 3: and they're actually there as big consequence as you get
Speaker 3: it wrong.
Speaker 2: The courts don't like these clauses very much.
Speaker 3: What's the word, not in the public interest, because it
Speaker 3: really is preventive. It's anti I mean the court's supposed
Speaker 3: to well, they do recognize that it's good to have
Speaker 3: a good society that is actually competing, particularly in businesses.
Speaker 2: And actually, if you are negotiating contract, you should start
Speaker 2: with that line saying, I see you've got a restraint
Speaker 2: of trade clause. Your advisors will tell you these are
Speaker 2: not in the public interest, So let's talk about this
Speaker 2: clause and what exactly you want.
Speaker 3: To I get asked the question all the time. You
Speaker 3: just critique this this contract, for this employment agreement for
Speaker 3: me and folks, I'll do that for you out there,
Speaker 3: and I don't charge just for a quick look. But
Speaker 3: when I see a restraint of trade, I go caution, caution, caution.
Speaker 3: I've even told very good friends, do not sign this contract.
Speaker 2: But the other moral of the story, I think from
Speaker 2: this hour is that if you have a contract in
Speaker 2: place and your employer wants to offer you a new contract,
Speaker 2: just don't sign it. If it's eroding your rights. It
Speaker 2: gets some advice or something, you know. We've had a
Speaker 2: few examples on that where people might have signed a
Speaker 2: new contract doing away with their redundancy.
Speaker 3: And here's the big news to a lot of people
Speaker 3: don't realize this. If you're offered a contract, you can
Speaker 3: negotiate it the Employment Relations Act. That means the law
Speaker 3: encourages you to negotiate it. And if your employer doesn't
Speaker 3: want to play ball with you, he's got to act
Speaker 3: in good faith. You've got to do it for the facts.
Speaker 3: You talk to Max, So give me a call.
Speaker 2: God, he's got the slogans. You can call them at
Speaker 2: I eight hundred and twenty four to seven ninety three
Speaker 2: and ninety three, or just google Max Whiteheady. He's easy
Speaker 2: to find anyway. Hey, thanks, nice to see him, Max.
Speaker 3: That was great to come and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I just say quick hello to Frank and Carol and
Speaker 3: I had a cup of tea with him today.
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, and thanks my producer Tira Roberts. Job Tyra,
Speaker 2: and we'll be back with you again, same time next weekend.
Speaker 2: Check out the podcast News Talks we website or eyeut
Speaker 2: radio look for the Weekend Collective, enjoy the rest of
Speaker 2: your evening. Sunday at six is next.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Speaker 1: Talk said Be weekends from three pm, or follow the
Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.