1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: And with us right now is Nikola Willis the Finance Minister, 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: High Nikeoler. 3 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 2: Good evening, Heather. 4 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Now did you see that the police are not investigating 5 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: one off shoplifts of less than five hundred dollars. 6 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: I've just been caught up with us. I've been on 7 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: our fight back from Nelson where I've been handing over 8 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: money to the new hospital, and I've just had a 9 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 2: very brief brief on it. 10 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: Okay, so this is what is happening, and it is 11 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,159 Speaker 1: it's a bunch of other stuff as well. It's you know, 12 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: petrol theft of less than hundred and fifty dollars, online 13 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: scams of less than one thousand dollars. Reality is, obviously 14 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: there are just not enough police to investigate everything. Will 15 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: you put more money in so they can have more 16 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: cops so we can get this stuff investigated. 17 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Well, we have put more money in here, and last 18 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: budget we put funding in for hundreds of extra police 19 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 2: and this budget we put in four hundred and twenty 20 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: million dollars extra so that the police we have have 21 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: greater resources with which to fight crime. So we are 22 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: committed to properly resourcing the police. Ultimately they will make 23 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: their own operational decisions about how best to deploy their resources. 24 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 2: It's not a good thing for politicians to be dictating 25 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 2: where and how they police. But I'm always worried about 26 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 2: retail crime, both because I'm sympathetic to small business owners 27 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: and also because that has been the site of a 28 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: lot of violent crime in recent years. So it's been 29 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: good to see violent crime in retail spaces coming down. 30 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: It's been good to see the police working with retail 31 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: and zed on other ways they can support shopkeepers and 32 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: the like to prevent this kind of crime. And I'd 33 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: expect there to continue to be police attention to these issues. 34 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: So do we just need to accept that this is 35 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: the reality. I mean, in a small country that's frankly broke, 36 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: there will be rationing. Right, we're rational other stuff, we're 37 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: rational healthcare, we have to ration police resources. 38 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's more that we have to trust 39 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: that the police will come up with what are the 40 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: big things that are going to make a fundamental difference, 41 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: And some of that will be about how they're actually 42 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: working with shopkeepers on what sorts of prevention tools they 43 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: can have in place, whether that's cameras or other things 44 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: that have had some success. We've got to trust that 45 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 2: the police will follow up on those repeat offenders, who 46 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: often are the ones doing multiple times. 47 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: How do you think this is going to go down 48 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: with the public, Because basically what you're saying is, listen, 49 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 1: if somebody knicks something worth less than five hundred bucks 50 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: and it's one off, you're just going to have to 51 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: suck it up. Retailer. That's a bit to swallow. 52 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: Well, my message to anyone who thinks they're going to 53 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: steal something in New Zealanders it's against the law. I'm 54 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: going to get Well, you could still get caught, and 55 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: if you are caught, you should be facing the law. 56 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: Right, Okay, what about I mean, jeez, you realize how 57 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: weak that sounds. A well st stricter is a parent 58 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: than that. 59 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 2: Well, this is an operational matter for the police. I 60 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: don't know the full details of how they've come to 61 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 2: their decision making, what their decision making is based on. 62 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: I do accept that this is something that New Zealanders 63 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: will be very interested in. I imagine that it's something 64 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: that the Police Minister will be taking an interest in, 65 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 2: and that there'll be more detailed to be communicating about 66 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: on the coming back. 67 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: Do you know, because I mean, it seems to me 68 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: if we're not going to rely on the police for 69 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: all of the stuff, it is going to be up 70 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: to retailers to rely on themselves to some extent. Do 71 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: you know where you guys are at with the citizens 72 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: arrest law? How far away away from getting that? 73 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: I think that legislation is progressing and I would expect 74 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: that giving Paul Goldsmith is in charge of it, but 75 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: it'll be in law pretty quickly, okay. 76 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: And then with the facial recognition technology, I saw that 77 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 1: you guys are looking at expanding what people are able 78 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: to do with that, retailers are able to do with that. 79 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: Do you know where that's at? 80 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: Well, that's something again that Paul Goldsmith is working on 81 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: the balance there is between privacy laws but also giving 82 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: police all of the tools that they need to fight 83 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: crime and giving retailers those tools. And when I talk 84 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: about what are the modern approaches, that's one of them, right, 85 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: because if it's much easier to identify who did the crime, 86 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: then it's much easier for the police to do a 87 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: process well and keep. 88 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: Them out right, just don't even get that store in 89 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: the first place. That's right now, listen, really, I mean, 90 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: why are you bothering with the superannuation thing, because you're 91 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: just going to get smacked down on this, aren't you 92 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: buy the public and Winston. 93 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: I'm not. I've made it very clear that we're not 94 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: planning any changes to superannuation this term. No. 95 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: But even if you take it to the election, it's 96 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: just going to prove incredibly unpopular, isn't it. 97 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: But we haven't taken anything to the election. I've just 98 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: simply made two facts plain. The first is, on the 99 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: one hand, the cost of superannuation is growing significantly by 100 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: many billions of dollars in just the next few years. 101 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 2: And the other simple fact is that in order to 102 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: fund that over time, New Zealanders will have to face 103 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: some choices about what we want that to look like. 104 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: Are you walking away from it because Luxon said last 105 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: week you guys are taking it to the next election. 106 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 2: Well, he was very explicit that our position at the 107 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: last election, which was to gradually increase the age of eligibility, 108 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 2: which is quite a different thing from taking it away 109 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: from anyone. It's simply saying gradually looking at lifting the 110 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: age of eligibility. That that position at the last election 111 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: he continues to think was the right one. 112 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: He said twenty yeah. 113 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 2: Well there you go. But that is quite different from 114 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: what you've been talking about on your show, which is 115 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: taking away universal superannuation, and that is the expectation that 116 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: every taxpayer in New Zealand has. No, no, no, no, 117 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: when they get to sixty five, they get super. 118 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: Well that's what he said. He said, you guys are 119 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: going to the next election twenty twenty six taking it 120 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: up to sixty seven. 121 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, right, but that would still be a 122 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: universal enticement. 123 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: Would I didn't talk about me. 124 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: Just an older just at an older age. 125 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're not going to do that, are you, Nikola, 126 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: because I'm going to oppose you and everybody's going to 127 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: impose you. 128 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 2: You mean on the age. Yes, well, actually, we'll have 129 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 2: a conversation as a caucus about what the parameters of 130 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: that will be and how campaign on it. Are you 131 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: on this, No, I'm just being clear with you that 132 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: what that will look like will be different from the 133 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: last election, because obviously three years have gone pass since then. 134 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: New Zealand, as we've pointed out in the past, is 135 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: quite an outlier when we compare ourselves to other countries 136 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: and our age of eligibility. New Zealanders are working for 137 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 2: a lot longer, they're living for a lot longer, and 138 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: that super bill is going up, up, up, And it 139 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: is my job to be a teller of plain truths. 140 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: And one of the plain truths is that that super 141 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: bill is going to rock it up so high that 142 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: inevitably a future government either has a look at the 143 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 2: settings or wax a lot more taxes on younger workings said. 144 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: Or there's another or, Or you can take away all 145 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: this middle class welfare that's going on at the moment, 146 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: like the third year free education for university, like all 147 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 1: his best start nonsense that happens working for families, which 148 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: is a disgrace, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. You 149 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 1: can start taking welfare away from working age peoples before 150 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: you start taking welfare away from people who are welfare 151 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: away from people who are retired. 152 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: Well, I'm proud to stand on the budget that we've 153 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: just delivered, where we've done a lot more time getting 154 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 2: of the welfare supports that are there with Kiwi's DAVA, 155 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: including with Best at Well. I've been clear that in 156 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 2: our next budget we expect to continue to offer savings 157 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: that will allow us to prioritize investment into the things 158 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: New Zealanders really care about. Health services, education services, the police. 159 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: That's going to be an ongoing effort from us. But 160 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: the superannuation conversation, it's not a conversation for today. We 161 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: don't have a fully formed policy, but I think the 162 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: Prime Minister has been clear that this is an area 163 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: that we have some concerns about for the future. 164 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: How do you feel about Saturday? You know what happens 165 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: on Saturday? 166 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: A Saturday. 167 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: You know what happens on Saturday. Don't pretend you haven't 168 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: already got this in your diary and you're like, lord, 169 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: here we come. 170 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: No, no, no, what happens on Saturday? 171 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: Here? 172 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: Seriously, you've lost me. Truthfully, you've lost me. 173 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: David Seymour becomes the death right. 174 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well you can imagine that it's not marked 175 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: with an enormous love heart or anything on my calendar. 176 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: Why not when he becomes because I don't, from my perspective, 177 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: will change here. 178 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: That everything's going to change, Nicoler, No, it won't. 179 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: He will continue to have the same ministerial responsibilities he 180 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: currently does. Whinston Peters will continue to be the Minister 181 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 2: for Foreign Affairs, Rail and Racing. Yes, And look, the 182 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: Deputy prime ministership doesn't come with its own special set 183 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: of responsibilities, except that when the Prime Minister is out 184 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: of the country, you have to be with It is 185 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: the acting PM, and you more every week. 186 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: I know you have to. I want to say to you, 187 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: stop stop pretending. But I know you have to pretend 188 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: because you have to work with the guy. But Winston 189 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: is so charming and lovely. And David is David, isn't he. 190 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 2: Well, look, everyone has their own special kind of charm, 191 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 2: don't they hear that? And no one's charm is quite 192 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: the same as another person. This is and I work 193 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: successfully with David seem where I work successfully with Winston Peters, 194 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: and whichever one of them is called Deputy Prime Minister 195 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 2: from one day to the next. To be honest, it 196 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: won't alter the way I work with them in any 197 00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: way shape or for. 198 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: You are good, Nicola, Thank you, I appreciate it, Nicola 199 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: Willis Finance Minister. That's like when your child comes to 200 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: you and it's like, bummy, am I your favorite? And 201 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: you go every one of you has a special place 202 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: in my heart. And then one of them is being 203 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: a little at the moment, and you go the bottom 204 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: place in my heart at the moment, isn't it? For 205 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to news 206 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: talks it'd B from four pm weekdays, or follow the 207 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,479 Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio.