1
00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk ZEDB. Follow

2
00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,133
Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

3
00:00:16,813 --> 00:00:18,973
Speaker 2: Hello you great New Zealand, and welcome to Matt and

4
00:00:19,012 --> 00:00:22,133
Speaker 2: Tyler Full Show Podcast number two eighty nine for the

5
00:00:22,173 --> 00:00:24,533
Speaker 2: seventeenth of February in the Year of Our Lord, twenty

6
00:00:24,573 --> 00:00:28,933
Speaker 2: twenty six. What a show, Oh my goodness. We went

7
00:00:29,053 --> 00:00:31,533
Speaker 2: deep into the Iran situation, asking the question why and

8
00:00:31,533 --> 00:00:33,093
Speaker 2: we're not hearing a lot about it in the media,

9
00:00:33,133 --> 00:00:36,653
Speaker 2: and the answer is complex, But we talk to a

10
00:00:36,653 --> 00:00:40,732
Speaker 2: lot of experts and it speaks to the reach of

11
00:00:40,893 --> 00:00:43,092
Speaker 2: News Talk ZB that you know, you just get calls

12
00:00:43,132 --> 00:00:45,573
Speaker 2: from people that is the best person to talk.

13
00:00:45,412 --> 00:00:48,973
Speaker 3: To now, phenomenal callers coming through Iranians living in New Zealand,

14
00:00:49,053 --> 00:00:50,733
Speaker 3: expens overseas.

15
00:00:50,173 --> 00:00:51,932
Speaker 2: And one complete more on that ring.

16
00:00:52,132 --> 00:00:55,212
Speaker 3: Yep, yep. There's always the balance of the misinformed. Someone

17
00:00:55,293 --> 00:00:56,573
Speaker 3: takes about that actually.

18
00:00:56,253 --> 00:00:58,213
Speaker 2: Fifty fifty I reckon. We want people don't know what

19
00:00:58,253 --> 00:01:00,653
Speaker 2: they're talking about and people that don't know anything at

20
00:01:00,733 --> 00:01:03,453
Speaker 2: all and are quite drunk. Yep makes for the perfect

21
00:01:03,533 --> 00:01:04,133
Speaker 2: radio show.

22
00:01:04,253 --> 00:01:08,853
Speaker 3: Certainly does so. Down Loabes. Subscribe five stars and give

23
00:01:08,853 --> 00:01:10,613
Speaker 3: me gi from us or are you seen busily you

24
00:01:10,613 --> 00:01:12,533
Speaker 3: listen to the pot all right there, okay, we love

25
00:01:12,572 --> 00:01:13,572
Speaker 3: you love.

26
00:01:13,533 --> 00:01:18,212
Speaker 1: Big stories, the bleak issues, the big trends and everything

27
00:01:18,212 --> 00:01:22,652
Speaker 1: in between. It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams. Afternoon squidda

28
00:01:22,932 --> 00:01:25,092
Speaker 1: News Talk said, be very.

29
00:01:24,973 --> 00:01:28,173
Speaker 3: Good afternoon to you. Welcome into Cheesday show. Really good

30
00:01:28,173 --> 00:01:31,173
Speaker 3: at your company as always. Hope you're doing pretty well.

31
00:01:31,212 --> 00:01:31,973
Speaker 3: We're eavy you're listening.

32
00:01:32,053 --> 00:01:34,853
Speaker 2: Get a map, get a Tyler, get abron. A while

33
00:01:34,893 --> 00:01:39,133
Speaker 2: back I was talking about the concer app. It's fantastic

34
00:01:39,173 --> 00:01:41,253
Speaker 2: where you know, you go for a run. I'm running

35
00:01:41,253 --> 00:01:45,572
Speaker 2: with my son and you run and it marks it

36
00:01:45,613 --> 00:01:50,453
Speaker 2: off on a map and and so I'm running the

37
00:01:50,453 --> 00:01:52,493
Speaker 2: Lord of the Rings version of it. Yes, so run

38
00:01:52,533 --> 00:01:53,813
Speaker 2: from the Shire to Mordor.

39
00:01:53,893 --> 00:01:55,173
Speaker 3: It's very cool, very cool.

40
00:01:55,213 --> 00:01:57,933
Speaker 2: Well, you know, so far this year my son and

41
00:01:57,973 --> 00:02:01,173
Speaker 2: I have run about two hundred and ninety one k's.

42
00:02:01,413 --> 00:02:05,053
Speaker 2: So you run around the streets and then you mark

43
00:02:05,093 --> 00:02:07,133
Speaker 2: it off a map. And there's various maps you can do,

44
00:02:07,773 --> 00:02:09,173
Speaker 2: but the one with as the Lord of the Rings

45
00:02:09,213 --> 00:02:13,013
Speaker 2: one so cool, and we've run a long way with it,

46
00:02:13,133 --> 00:02:15,053
Speaker 2: and he runs one day and I run another one.

47
00:02:15,053 --> 00:02:19,773
Speaker 2: It's incredibly wholesome. But I messed up and so I

48
00:02:19,813 --> 00:02:22,893
Speaker 2: got to I got through one area and then I

49
00:02:22,972 --> 00:02:26,533
Speaker 2: messed up and signed up to the wrong next area.

50
00:02:26,613 --> 00:02:29,013
Speaker 2: Think okay, Right, So that was gutting because we'd lose

51
00:02:29,013 --> 00:02:32,532
Speaker 2: our distance. That is devastating and we're ended up on

52
00:02:32,573 --> 00:02:35,813
Speaker 2: another map. It's kind of complicated. But this is what

53
00:02:35,893 --> 00:02:37,453
Speaker 2: great people they are, because it turns out it's a

54
00:02:37,493 --> 00:02:39,933
Speaker 2: New Zealand company. I loved. I loved it so much,

55
00:02:39,972 --> 00:02:41,893
Speaker 2: and then we investigated and found out it was a

56
00:02:41,933 --> 00:02:45,132
Speaker 2: New Zealand company and it was started by a guy

57
00:02:45,173 --> 00:02:50,532
Speaker 2: called Adam, a Kiwi guy. Fantastic and so because we'd

58
00:02:50,532 --> 00:02:52,933
Speaker 2: interviewed him on the show, I just texted him. So

59
00:02:52,972 --> 00:02:55,173
Speaker 2: I texted the boss of the company as you do,

60
00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:58,572
Speaker 2: and said, I've cocked up perks of the job, which

61
00:02:58,613 --> 00:03:01,093
Speaker 2: is very presumptuous, you know, because there's lots of ways

62
00:03:01,213 --> 00:03:02,572
Speaker 2: to get through to try and sort it out.

63
00:03:02,653 --> 00:03:02,852
Speaker 4: Yeah.

64
00:03:02,893 --> 00:03:05,013
Speaker 2: It's such a good bloke. He's got this huge company

65
00:03:05,053 --> 00:03:07,653
Speaker 2: that's gone global, millions and millions of people using this

66
00:03:07,733 --> 00:03:12,093
Speaker 2: an incredible human success story. I text him my problem

67
00:03:12,213 --> 00:03:13,933
Speaker 2: and the boss of the company's fixed it for me.

68
00:03:14,053 --> 00:03:15,333
Speaker 3: How good? How good?

69
00:03:15,573 --> 00:03:17,453
Speaker 2: That's that's New Zealand. It's for you, right.

70
00:03:17,573 --> 00:03:19,453
Speaker 3: That is why I love this country and love our

71
00:03:19,532 --> 00:03:21,693
Speaker 3: people is because that sort of stuff right there, and

72
00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:23,532
Speaker 3: what I mean when we got him on the show,

73
00:03:24,133 --> 00:03:26,893
Speaker 3: we realized he was a key we and then we

74
00:03:27,013 --> 00:03:30,173
Speaker 3: quickly got lucky and found a phone number and when

75
00:03:30,173 --> 00:03:32,573
Speaker 3: we rang him up, it was literally five minutes. Say Adam,

76
00:03:32,813 --> 00:03:35,813
Speaker 3: it's Matt and Tyler here. We are talking about your

77
00:03:35,933 --> 00:03:38,773
Speaker 3: fantastic business and your fantastic app. Because Matt's doing it,

78
00:03:39,253 --> 00:03:40,773
Speaker 3: we want to talk to you. You say, yep, all good.

79
00:03:40,813 --> 00:03:42,133
Speaker 3: When do you want it? Can we talk to him?

80
00:03:42,133 --> 00:03:45,173
Speaker 3: Two minutes? Yep, let's go, let's go. Yah good.

81
00:03:45,733 --> 00:03:49,413
Speaker 2: So I thoroughly recommend the Conqueror app because you know,

82
00:03:49,453 --> 00:03:52,773
Speaker 2: it's sometimes hard to get some kids into exercise, but

83
00:03:52,853 --> 00:03:55,493
Speaker 2: this one, my son and I were just running across

84
00:03:56,533 --> 00:04:00,773
Speaker 2: Middle Earth together knocking off the case one day one day,

85
00:04:00,853 --> 00:04:03,653
Speaker 2: me and we're both really got into it. We haven't

86
00:04:03,653 --> 00:04:06,573
Speaker 2: missed a day because because it's we're working on it together.

87
00:04:07,093 --> 00:04:09,133
Speaker 2: If you want to get into fit for yourself or

88
00:04:09,213 --> 00:04:10,853
Speaker 2: you want to get a kid into finess, it's just

89
00:04:10,893 --> 00:04:12,413
Speaker 2: such a good thing. And they've also got an it

90
00:04:12,493 --> 00:04:13,693
Speaker 2: one because they've got horror ones.

91
00:04:13,813 --> 00:04:16,093
Speaker 3: Oh how good. It's to be terrifying.

92
00:04:16,253 --> 00:04:20,373
Speaker 2: Yeah, but just running around the streets of mountain and

93
00:04:20,453 --> 00:04:23,693
Speaker 2: terrified because you're it's marking you often it man.

94
00:04:23,933 --> 00:04:26,693
Speaker 3: Yeah, how good? What a success story. And if you

95
00:04:26,773 --> 00:04:29,892
Speaker 3: missed our interview with the creator of the Conqueror app

96
00:04:30,213 --> 00:04:33,093
Speaker 3: Adam Largis, He's an absolute legend of a ki where

97
00:04:33,093 --> 00:04:35,973
Speaker 3: you will find it on iHeart and also the news

98
00:04:36,013 --> 00:04:38,693
Speaker 3: talk ZB website, So go check it out. He's an

99
00:04:38,733 --> 00:04:39,413
Speaker 3: amazing fella.

100
00:04:39,573 --> 00:04:42,453
Speaker 2: Yeah, just running that out of Mount Monginoi's good, great,

101
00:04:42,813 --> 00:04:43,613
Speaker 2: good on them.

102
00:04:43,573 --> 00:04:46,613
Speaker 3: Absolute legend right. Coming up on the show today a

103
00:04:46,653 --> 00:04:49,613
Speaker 3: little bit later in the program, after o'clock and after

104
00:04:49,893 --> 00:04:52,253
Speaker 3: three o'clock, we want to talk about what is happening

105
00:04:52,613 --> 00:04:56,173
Speaker 3: in Iran. The big question we had was why is

106
00:04:56,173 --> 00:04:59,173
Speaker 3: it not causing the same waves of outrage other international

107
00:04:59,213 --> 00:05:02,773
Speaker 3: events are considering the magnitude of what is happening on

108
00:05:02,813 --> 00:05:07,093
Speaker 3: the ground right now, some estimates that thirty six thousand

109
00:05:07,293 --> 00:05:11,253
Speaker 3: Iranians have been killed since this latest uprising and protest

110
00:05:11,333 --> 00:05:15,493
Speaker 3: started in January. It is grim, it is horrendous what

111
00:05:15,613 --> 00:05:16,333
Speaker 3: is happening there.

112
00:05:16,973 --> 00:05:21,013
Speaker 2: Yeah, So our question is why do we not hear

113
00:05:21,093 --> 00:05:23,373
Speaker 2: much about it? In New Zealand. Why don't we see

114
00:05:23,493 --> 00:05:26,413
Speaker 2: the huge protests on the street. Why don't we see

115
00:05:26,613 --> 00:05:31,653
Speaker 2: the outpouring of anger, the yelling, the screaming, the wearing

116
00:05:31,733 --> 00:05:36,893
Speaker 2: of kafirs and parliaments and around the streets for what

117
00:05:37,173 --> 00:05:43,573
Speaker 2: is a horrific situation in the Middle East. Yeah, I

118
00:05:43,613 --> 00:05:49,693
Speaker 2: mean the parallels there are huge. There's citizens that are

119
00:05:49,773 --> 00:05:52,973
Speaker 2: rising up and gainst an incredibly oppressive regime.

120
00:05:53,133 --> 00:05:55,773
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we are going to speak to a world

121
00:05:55,853 --> 00:05:59,573
Speaker 3: leading historian on Iran. His name is Professor Ali and Sari.

122
00:05:59,693 --> 00:06:02,453
Speaker 3: He's based in the UK. And we're also going to

123
00:06:02,453 --> 00:06:06,173
Speaker 3: speak to doctor Farau Ahman, she leads the Iranian Woman's

124
00:06:06,253 --> 00:06:09,373
Speaker 3: Council here in New Zealand, and put those questions to them.

125
00:06:09,733 --> 00:06:11,653
Speaker 3: But want to hear from you is well that is

126
00:06:11,733 --> 00:06:15,253
Speaker 3: after two o'clock. But right now, let's get into this.

127
00:06:15,573 --> 00:06:19,093
Speaker 3: So MasterCard has tested what it calls its Agent pay system.

128
00:06:19,173 --> 00:06:22,613
Speaker 3: It's basically an AI agent. So this will help you.

129
00:06:22,853 --> 00:06:25,533
Speaker 3: This is AI bot that will help you buy movie tickets.

130
00:06:25,533 --> 00:06:29,133
Speaker 3: It will book a hotel for you without you doing anything.

131
00:06:29,293 --> 00:06:31,573
Speaker 3: It will type in your credit card details, it will

132
00:06:31,653 --> 00:06:34,653
Speaker 3: use your Apple wallet and past key if you've got it.

133
00:06:34,653 --> 00:06:37,693
Speaker 3: It's been backed by Westpac, and the system as it

134
00:06:37,733 --> 00:06:41,053
Speaker 3: stands at the moment does need user approval, but they

135
00:06:41,173 --> 00:06:45,093
Speaker 3: plan to fully automate that, so everything will be done

136
00:06:45,173 --> 00:06:48,453
Speaker 3: by this aibot. Whatever you want to buy online, you

137
00:06:48,573 --> 00:06:51,093
Speaker 3: just tell the AI bot what you want and it

138
00:06:51,173 --> 00:06:55,253
Speaker 3: runs through everything. You don't have to lift a single finger.

139
00:06:55,333 --> 00:06:56,093
Speaker 3: It will do it for you.

140
00:06:56,253 --> 00:06:59,773
Speaker 2: So you say I want a new pair of genes,

141
00:07:00,293 --> 00:07:04,013
Speaker 2: and it goes off and finds them, buys them and

142
00:07:04,013 --> 00:07:05,493
Speaker 2: gets them delivererty correct.

143
00:07:05,773 --> 00:07:06,213
Speaker 3: Yeah.

144
00:07:06,253 --> 00:07:08,853
Speaker 2: So the question I guess is do you trust to

145
00:07:08,933 --> 00:07:12,373
Speaker 2: choose for you, pay using your money and communicate on

146
00:07:12,773 --> 00:07:16,573
Speaker 2: your behalf. And the second part of it is how

147
00:07:16,693 --> 00:07:19,573
Speaker 2: dumb and lazy are we getting that we can't book

148
00:07:19,653 --> 00:07:22,013
Speaker 2: movie tickets? Because one of the examples that mascat has

149
00:07:22,013 --> 00:07:26,573
Speaker 2: shown is booking movie tickets. I mean, how lazy and dumb.

150
00:07:27,213 --> 00:07:31,093
Speaker 2: It's not hard, just book your movie tickets, yep. And

151
00:07:31,133 --> 00:07:34,213
Speaker 2: I worry if you let AI make these kind of decisions,

152
00:07:34,293 --> 00:07:39,213
Speaker 2: then it ends up just making averages across everyone. So

153
00:07:39,653 --> 00:07:42,453
Speaker 2: the bigger things become bigger and bigger and bigger, and

154
00:07:42,213 --> 00:07:47,013
Speaker 2: the more interesting and human and quirky things just disappear.

155
00:07:48,293 --> 00:07:51,613
Speaker 2: And as the six says day Foulers. How bloody, useless

156
00:07:51,653 --> 00:07:54,173
Speaker 2: and lazy have we become that we need want a

157
00:07:54,173 --> 00:07:56,613
Speaker 2: machine to do our shopping for us? Humans will become

158
00:07:56,693 --> 00:08:01,533
Speaker 2: the ultimate bottomless pit of neediness. That is the concern,

159
00:08:01,613 --> 00:08:04,133
Speaker 2: isn't it if you lose the ability to even book

160
00:08:04,173 --> 00:08:07,933
Speaker 2: your own movie tickets, if you're too lazy to find

161
00:08:07,973 --> 00:08:10,333
Speaker 2: the payer of jeans you're gonna wear and choose them

162
00:08:10,413 --> 00:08:13,333
Speaker 2: using your own taste and buy them and pay for

163
00:08:13,373 --> 00:08:16,213
Speaker 2: them and work out to have them deliver it. Considering

164
00:08:16,213 --> 00:08:19,693
Speaker 2: how easy that is to do online as it is now,

165
00:08:20,293 --> 00:08:22,813
Speaker 2: then how useless are we going to get? It's like

166
00:08:22,893 --> 00:08:25,213
Speaker 2: your brain is like a muscle, and if you stop

167
00:08:25,293 --> 00:08:29,133
Speaker 2: using muscles they rote away. And if you stop using

168
00:08:29,133 --> 00:08:31,573
Speaker 2: your brain to even do the simplest things like this,

169
00:08:31,973 --> 00:08:34,813
Speaker 2: your brain will mush itself.

170
00:08:34,533 --> 00:08:36,372
Speaker 3: Yep, or appen, it will contract.

171
00:08:36,933 --> 00:08:39,012
Speaker 2: I mean they've done some studies and how dumb AI

172
00:08:39,173 --> 00:08:41,493
Speaker 2: is even making us people that use chet GPT to

173
00:08:41,693 --> 00:08:44,613
Speaker 2: do it a bunch of their jobs in life. The

174
00:08:44,653 --> 00:08:47,733
Speaker 2: brain contracts. Yeah, so is that what we want to happen?

175
00:08:48,093 --> 00:08:50,333
Speaker 3: That's my biggest worry. I mean the privacy thing, yep,

176
00:08:50,372 --> 00:08:53,492
Speaker 3: that's an element, but the whole taking the agency away

177
00:08:53,492 --> 00:08:56,053
Speaker 3: from me on doing things that I actually enjoy doing.

178
00:08:56,293 --> 00:08:57,973
Speaker 3: You know, it's nice to go and buy some movie

179
00:08:58,012 --> 00:08:59,893
Speaker 3: tickets and I might have an idea of what movie

180
00:08:59,892 --> 00:09:01,612
Speaker 3: I want to see, and then at the last minute

181
00:09:01,653 --> 00:09:03,893
Speaker 3: does change my mind because there was something else at

182
00:09:03,892 --> 00:09:05,933
Speaker 3: an earlier time. They actually I want to see that.

183
00:09:05,973 --> 00:09:07,573
Speaker 3: I didn't even know that was playing at the moment.

184
00:09:07,852 --> 00:09:09,732
Speaker 3: But I just don't want to sit there. What's the

185
00:09:10,573 --> 00:09:12,653
Speaker 3: in game here that I sit there like a limpless

186
00:09:12,693 --> 00:09:15,773
Speaker 3: cabbage on my couch letting AI do everything? Why is

187
00:09:15,852 --> 00:09:17,852
Speaker 3: that a fun thing? I mean, why are you calling

188
00:09:17,852 --> 00:09:20,413
Speaker 3: that progress? That is the opposite of progress, to turn

189
00:09:20,492 --> 00:09:23,213
Speaker 3: humans into some useless slugs that don't do anything.

190
00:09:23,293 --> 00:09:25,492
Speaker 2: And it is just business because what they really want

191
00:09:25,492 --> 00:09:27,013
Speaker 2: to do is take Google out of the mix, don't

192
00:09:27,012 --> 00:09:32,373
Speaker 2: they That's the job. But if you can't even Google,

193
00:09:33,773 --> 00:09:36,213
Speaker 2: if you can't even look up online what you want,

194
00:09:36,852 --> 00:09:40,412
Speaker 2: and you know, you're absolutely right, Tyler, sometimes you don't

195
00:09:40,573 --> 00:09:43,132
Speaker 2: really know what you want. Say, for example, an example

196
00:09:43,132 --> 00:09:47,133
Speaker 2: that they're talking about here is booking a hotel in

197
00:09:47,173 --> 00:09:50,453
Speaker 2: another town. So you say, I'm going to Queenstown. I

198
00:09:50,492 --> 00:09:52,652
Speaker 2: want to this, this, and this, ye right, some of

199
00:09:52,693 --> 00:09:54,933
Speaker 2: the greatest things that happen to you is when things

200
00:09:55,012 --> 00:09:56,533
Speaker 2: go off kilter.

201
00:09:56,773 --> 00:09:57,693
Speaker 3: Yes, right, yep.

202
00:09:58,053 --> 00:09:59,412
Speaker 2: So if they're just going to get.

203
00:09:59,213 --> 00:09:59,693
Speaker 5: You the.

204
00:10:01,732 --> 00:10:04,893
Speaker 2: Average of what people want and where they want to

205
00:10:04,933 --> 00:10:07,453
Speaker 2: stay and how they want to travel, and what they

206
00:10:07,492 --> 00:10:09,612
Speaker 2: want to do with they are and what they want

207
00:10:09,653 --> 00:10:14,733
Speaker 2: to see, as AI does, then everything will just become

208
00:10:14,892 --> 00:10:20,732
Speaker 2: blander and more processed and less human and less interesting

209
00:10:21,012 --> 00:10:25,733
Speaker 2: and less quirky. And I'm gonna say less Yeah, less

210
00:10:25,773 --> 00:10:26,773
Speaker 2: human suck.

211
00:10:26,612 --> 00:10:28,733
Speaker 3: The joy out of experience. But what do you say, Oh,

212
00:10:28,773 --> 00:10:31,693
Speaker 3: eight hundred eighty ten eighty do you trust AI to

213
00:10:31,813 --> 00:10:35,173
Speaker 3: choose for you? Communicate on your behalf and pay using

214
00:10:35,293 --> 00:10:38,333
Speaker 3: your money? And secondary question is how dumb do you

215
00:10:38,333 --> 00:10:40,052
Speaker 3: think this will make us in the long run? Love

216
00:10:40,053 --> 00:10:42,093
Speaker 3: to hear from you. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty

217
00:10:42,173 --> 00:10:43,853
Speaker 3: is that number to call? Nine two niney two is

218
00:10:43,892 --> 00:10:45,852
Speaker 3: the text? It's sixteen past one.

219
00:10:46,453 --> 00:10:49,933
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends, and

220
00:10:50,173 --> 00:10:51,173
Speaker 1: everything in between.

221
00:10:51,372 --> 00:10:54,053
Speaker 5: Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons US.

222
00:10:54,012 --> 00:10:56,973
Speaker 3: Talk z B News Talk ZB. So we're talking about

223
00:10:57,012 --> 00:10:59,453
Speaker 3: AI bots that will do everything for you. When it

224
00:10:59,453 --> 00:11:01,853
Speaker 3: comes to shopping, do you trust AI to choose for

225
00:11:01,973 --> 00:11:04,213
Speaker 3: you communicate on your behalf and pay using your money.

226
00:11:04,372 --> 00:11:05,333
Speaker 3: Love to hear from you.

227
00:11:05,213 --> 00:11:08,973
Speaker 2: Matt, you're pushing your opinion re AI for people like

228
00:11:09,012 --> 00:11:12,012
Speaker 2: myself who have their hands full and family health issues

229
00:11:12,053 --> 00:11:14,492
Speaker 2: that make booking tickets harder, especially in a quick decision

230
00:11:14,492 --> 00:11:16,252
Speaker 2: to go to the movies, and if you're out of town,

231
00:11:16,333 --> 00:11:18,453
Speaker 2: this would be very handy. My point is it's judgmental

232
00:11:18,492 --> 00:11:20,453
Speaker 2: to say it's a lazy thing when for some people

233
00:11:20,492 --> 00:11:23,133
Speaker 2: who are challenged with others used this may be excellent.

234
00:11:23,732 --> 00:11:27,093
Speaker 2: That's just a pushback on that argument. I don't go

235
00:11:27,132 --> 00:11:28,933
Speaker 2: up to someone in a wheelchair and say they're lazy

236
00:11:30,093 --> 00:11:32,012
Speaker 2: because I assume they need to be in a wheelchair.

237
00:11:32,173 --> 00:11:35,893
Speaker 2: But Tyler, if you started a rolling around the office

238
00:11:35,892 --> 00:11:37,213
Speaker 2: in a wheelchair, I'd call you lazy.

239
00:11:37,293 --> 00:11:38,693
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, fair enough too.

240
00:11:38,973 --> 00:11:41,893
Speaker 2: So I've never write it for whatever health reasons, it's

241
00:11:41,892 --> 00:11:44,053
Speaker 2: handy for someone to use an AI agent to go

242
00:11:44,093 --> 00:11:45,573
Speaker 2: and do a bunch of stuff, then I'm not going

243
00:11:45,612 --> 00:11:50,093
Speaker 2: to be hassling them, obviously, But I'm saying if people

244
00:11:50,173 --> 00:11:52,613
Speaker 2: just start handing over all that stuff that is so

245
00:11:52,933 --> 00:11:56,213
Speaker 2: very easy to do for most of us to AI,

246
00:11:56,333 --> 00:11:58,732
Speaker 2: then we will become dumber and we will become more

247
00:11:58,773 --> 00:12:00,412
Speaker 2: and more dependent on it, And then I think that's

248
00:12:00,413 --> 00:12:00,813
Speaker 2: a problem.

249
00:12:00,892 --> 00:12:02,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh eight one hundred and eighty ten eighties and

250
00:12:02,372 --> 00:12:06,653
Speaker 3: number to call get Andrea gooda how are you very good?

251
00:12:06,732 --> 00:12:07,933
Speaker 3: So can you hear your thoughts about this?

252
00:12:07,973 --> 00:12:12,292
Speaker 6: Aosh ah, I could not agree with you guys on

253
00:12:12,453 --> 00:12:16,052
Speaker 6: every single point. More about who's it or lose it?

254
00:12:16,573 --> 00:12:22,213
Speaker 6: About the infertilization of the population. Y'all needs to go

255
00:12:22,213 --> 00:12:24,813
Speaker 6: into the bank and try and withdraw cash on a Saturday,

256
00:12:25,053 --> 00:12:26,732
Speaker 6: you know, and they say, sorry, we don't give out

257
00:12:26,732 --> 00:12:29,533
Speaker 6: cash on a Saturday anymore. The limits that are coming

258
00:12:29,573 --> 00:12:32,933
Speaker 6: around us to push us to use to use technology

259
00:12:32,973 --> 00:12:38,013
Speaker 6: instead of using our feet and our brains and everyday cash.

260
00:12:38,173 --> 00:12:38,373
Speaker 5: You know.

261
00:12:38,852 --> 00:12:42,132
Speaker 6: I work in a place where we are customers facing

262
00:12:42,653 --> 00:12:48,453
Speaker 6: and I saw firsthand just how relying on AI to

263
00:12:48,492 --> 00:12:50,612
Speaker 6: get them, you know, with Google Maps, to get them

264
00:12:50,653 --> 00:12:53,252
Speaker 6: to our place of business. And our street number is

265
00:12:53,293 --> 00:12:57,693
Speaker 6: thirty six. And this elderly lady and I got on aw,

266
00:12:57,732 --> 00:13:00,252
Speaker 6: she's embraced technology and she's using it. She's got herself

267
00:13:00,252 --> 00:13:03,493
Speaker 6: to number thirty four on our street, turned into that

268
00:13:03,612 --> 00:13:07,053
Speaker 6: driveway where there's six places of business and where the

269
00:13:07,093 --> 00:13:11,613
Speaker 6: next driveway along clearly labeled thirty six, and she rings

270
00:13:11,653 --> 00:13:15,172
Speaker 6: me just sort of desperately anxious to say, I can't

271
00:13:15,173 --> 00:13:15,533
Speaker 6: find you.

272
00:13:16,732 --> 00:13:19,573
Speaker 7: I put you into Google, Matt, and I said.

273
00:13:19,372 --> 00:13:21,813
Speaker 6: Where are you? And she said, I'm sitting outside this place.

274
00:13:22,413 --> 00:13:24,373
Speaker 6: And I said, what's the street number? And she said

275
00:13:24,413 --> 00:13:26,533
Speaker 6: thirty four. And I said, and what street number did

276
00:13:26,533 --> 00:13:29,973
Speaker 6: I give you? And she said thirty six And I said,

277
00:13:30,173 --> 00:13:32,213
Speaker 6: so just come to the next driveway and she said,

278
00:13:32,492 --> 00:13:33,493
Speaker 6: but I got seent here.

279
00:13:34,653 --> 00:13:34,973
Speaker 5: Wow.

280
00:13:34,973 --> 00:13:37,492
Speaker 6: And you know, I've seen that a few times where

281
00:13:37,533 --> 00:13:42,053
Speaker 6: people are just not wanting to think for themselves. And

282
00:13:41,612 --> 00:13:44,573
Speaker 6: where does that end, particularly for our teen is. I

283
00:13:44,693 --> 00:13:47,533
Speaker 6: love hearing your story, Matt about taking your son out

284
00:13:47,573 --> 00:13:51,653
Speaker 6: for runs, because I have seen that with teens where

285
00:13:52,093 --> 00:13:56,933
Speaker 6: that addict of gaming is just consuming them and the

286
00:13:57,053 --> 00:13:59,893
Speaker 6: future is looking a little bleak for their mental health

287
00:14:00,053 --> 00:14:03,612
Speaker 6: on some of the teens I know who are totally addicted.

288
00:14:04,053 --> 00:14:06,093
Speaker 6: So where do we put the stake in the ground.

289
00:14:06,293 --> 00:14:09,453
Speaker 6: I just love what you're highlighting. I love the conversations,

290
00:14:09,453 --> 00:14:11,293
Speaker 6: and I just thank you guys from the bottom of

291
00:14:11,293 --> 00:14:11,613
Speaker 6: my heart.

292
00:14:11,693 --> 00:14:13,213
Speaker 2: Oh good on you, Andrew. Thank you for saying that,

293
00:14:13,293 --> 00:14:15,292
Speaker 2: and thank you for calling us up. There's an interesting

294
00:14:15,372 --> 00:14:17,973
Speaker 2: thing that people talk about in terms of change. Right.

295
00:14:18,093 --> 00:14:21,013
Speaker 2: So I used to work behind counters for a very

296
00:14:21,013 --> 00:14:24,573
Speaker 2: long time, from you know, high school through university, and

297
00:14:24,613 --> 00:14:26,533
Speaker 2: even when I started, I worked in record stores, and

298
00:14:26,573 --> 00:14:28,933
Speaker 2: so I was amazing at giving change. You know, whatever

299
00:14:28,973 --> 00:14:30,853
Speaker 2: you gave me, I could do the math on that

300
00:14:30,893 --> 00:14:34,453
Speaker 2: incredibly quickly. Wasn't even I didn't even think about it.

301
00:14:34,493 --> 00:14:36,933
Speaker 2: Whatever someone, whatever money came, I could give it back,

302
00:14:37,133 --> 00:14:40,933
Speaker 2: you know. And now I can't because I don't do

303
00:14:40,973 --> 00:14:43,413
Speaker 2: that anymore. So I was trying to work out some

304
00:14:43,493 --> 00:14:45,173
Speaker 2: change the other day and I realized that my brain

305
00:14:45,253 --> 00:14:47,253
Speaker 2: had stopped being able to do that function because I

306
00:14:47,253 --> 00:14:50,413
Speaker 2: haven't done that for a long time. And that's what happens.

307
00:14:50,413 --> 00:14:52,933
Speaker 2: So you have these skills that disappear. So if we

308
00:14:53,093 --> 00:14:58,013
Speaker 2: hand over basic admin to AI and basic things like

309
00:14:58,133 --> 00:15:04,013
Speaker 2: making you know, taste decisions and things like you know,

310
00:15:04,973 --> 00:15:08,173
Speaker 2: negotiating with someone, not negotiating, but having a conversation with someone,

311
00:15:08,773 --> 00:15:11,172
Speaker 2: then then those parts of our brain will just shrink

312
00:15:11,213 --> 00:15:13,213
Speaker 2: because we don't use them. They're like muscles, and then

313
00:15:13,533 --> 00:15:16,693
Speaker 2: we'll become completely dependent on the AI, and then we

314
00:15:16,733 --> 00:15:19,412
Speaker 2: get what you get where someone can't go. I'm at

315
00:15:19,453 --> 00:15:23,733
Speaker 2: thirty four. The number says thirty How can I find

316
00:15:23,773 --> 00:15:24,933
Speaker 2: out with thirty six is.

317
00:15:27,213 --> 00:15:30,213
Speaker 6: One hundred percent? And it's as simple as like when

318
00:15:30,213 --> 00:15:33,613
Speaker 6: we do our quotes, I don't do them in the calculator. First,

319
00:15:33,893 --> 00:15:37,933
Speaker 6: I do my you know, six meters times forty five dollars,

320
00:15:38,133 --> 00:15:39,733
Speaker 6: and I add that up and put it in the

321
00:15:39,773 --> 00:15:41,812
Speaker 6: book and then you can check it with the calculator,

322
00:15:41,973 --> 00:15:44,373
Speaker 6: which is what my boss does when he reviews the quotes.

323
00:15:44,813 --> 00:15:49,253
Speaker 6: But you don't just dismissing fault straight to the calculator, because,

324
00:15:49,293 --> 00:15:50,493
Speaker 6: like you say, use.

325
00:15:50,413 --> 00:15:51,013
Speaker 8: It or lose it.

326
00:15:51,693 --> 00:15:53,693
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you so much for you call Andrew,

327
00:15:53,693 --> 00:15:55,973
Speaker 2: and good luck out there with people that can't find

328
00:15:56,573 --> 00:15:57,173
Speaker 2: thirty six.

329
00:15:57,293 --> 00:15:58,093
Speaker 3: The take thirty five?

330
00:15:58,253 --> 00:15:58,573
Speaker 9: Is it?

331
00:15:58,613 --> 00:16:00,933
Speaker 3: I mean, if you rely on AI that much to

332
00:16:01,053 --> 00:16:04,172
Speaker 3: navigate and you can't even read the letterbox numbers, I

333
00:16:04,213 --> 00:16:06,333
Speaker 3: mean that is kind of where we're going, that you're

334
00:16:06,493 --> 00:16:09,053
Speaker 3: so reliant on AI doing the thing thinking for you

335
00:16:09,133 --> 00:16:12,133
Speaker 3: that you just freeze when it doesn't make sense to you.

336
00:16:12,293 --> 00:16:14,413
Speaker 2: Well, Google Maps has done that. People used to know

337
00:16:14,533 --> 00:16:17,653
Speaker 2: directions and now they don't know directions at all because

338
00:16:17,693 --> 00:16:19,253
Speaker 2: you just put in your Apple Maps or your Google

339
00:16:19,293 --> 00:16:20,773
Speaker 2: Maps or your ways and it tells you how to

340
00:16:20,773 --> 00:16:22,613
Speaker 2: get there. I get this all the time. At my house,

341
00:16:22,853 --> 00:16:25,853
Speaker 2: I've got two driveways and one is the door that

342
00:16:25,893 --> 00:16:27,093
Speaker 2: you get in to drop things off.

343
00:16:27,213 --> 00:16:27,453
Speaker 5: Yep.

344
00:16:27,813 --> 00:16:30,013
Speaker 2: And instead of just checking two driveways, one has the

345
00:16:30,093 --> 00:16:33,013
Speaker 2: number on it, one doesn't. People just freeze on the

346
00:16:33,013 --> 00:16:35,853
Speaker 2: street and they stand in front of the house and

347
00:16:35,893 --> 00:16:39,413
Speaker 2: then they'll ring delivery people. Oh wait, you've got two

348
00:16:39,453 --> 00:16:41,853
Speaker 2: options to investigate here, yeah, and one of them is

349
00:16:41,893 --> 00:16:44,653
Speaker 2: a closed gate, and you go, I'm at where I've

350
00:16:44,693 --> 00:16:46,693
Speaker 2: been told. It's exactly what Andrew is saying now I

351
00:16:46,733 --> 00:16:49,453
Speaker 2: think about it. So they've followed the map to exactly

352
00:16:49,493 --> 00:16:51,053
Speaker 2: where they are, which is in front of my house.

353
00:16:51,533 --> 00:16:53,413
Speaker 2: But then they can't do the next step to lock

354
00:16:53,453 --> 00:16:56,253
Speaker 2: down one driveway or down the other driveway to see

355
00:16:56,373 --> 00:16:58,292
Speaker 2: the door to drop the thing off yep, and they

356
00:16:58,333 --> 00:17:01,533
Speaker 2: immediately ring it is It's like what I was saying before.

357
00:17:01,653 --> 00:17:03,613
Speaker 2: It's like a dog going to the door instead of

358
00:17:03,693 --> 00:17:07,093
Speaker 2: using the cat door. It just goes and goes because

359
00:17:07,133 --> 00:17:09,173
Speaker 2: they know that a human will open the door for

360
00:17:09,213 --> 00:17:12,453
Speaker 2: them to get outside. And that's what will become because

361
00:17:12,453 --> 00:17:14,813
Speaker 2: we'll just go I want to do this, I ask

362
00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:18,532
Speaker 2: the AI agent to do it, and then we just

363
00:17:18,573 --> 00:17:20,733
Speaker 2: become useless and more dependent on it. And then the

364
00:17:20,733 --> 00:17:23,253
Speaker 2: more you dependent on it, the more open you are

365
00:17:23,373 --> 00:17:27,253
Speaker 2: to being just played by it where it's in the

366
00:17:27,293 --> 00:17:31,293
Speaker 2: back end. Then that gets commercialized, so your AI agents

367
00:17:31,333 --> 00:17:34,853
Speaker 2: only start going to the same to the clients and

368
00:17:34,893 --> 00:17:39,293
Speaker 2: the shops that have paid money to be on the list,

369
00:17:39,373 --> 00:17:40,213
Speaker 2: like Google does.

370
00:17:40,173 --> 00:17:41,933
Speaker 3: And you've lost any decision making at that point.

371
00:17:42,053 --> 00:17:43,413
Speaker 2: You look at Google. It used to be that you

372
00:17:43,533 --> 00:17:45,573
Speaker 2: searched on Google and it would come up with the answer.

373
00:17:45,613 --> 00:17:47,573
Speaker 2: Now when you search on Google, it comes up with

374
00:17:47,653 --> 00:17:49,853
Speaker 2: what people that have paid for the ad for it

375
00:17:49,893 --> 00:17:52,413
Speaker 2: to come up next. And even if you're really specific

376
00:17:52,453 --> 00:17:55,533
Speaker 2: on what you search, then it'll throw up something out

377
00:17:55,533 --> 00:17:57,532
Speaker 2: totally different because those people have paid money to be

378
00:17:57,613 --> 00:17:58,933
Speaker 2: the next thing in the search, right.

379
00:17:58,853 --> 00:18:00,413
Speaker 3: Yep, AI will do that.

380
00:18:00,493 --> 00:18:03,253
Speaker 2: The AI agents will do that in a second, and

381
00:18:03,293 --> 00:18:05,453
Speaker 2: suddenly you're looking for a hotel in a city and

382
00:18:05,493 --> 00:18:08,213
Speaker 2: only the chain that's paid money will be the one

383
00:18:08,213 --> 00:18:10,053
Speaker 2: that comes up. Yeah, and then you've got a cool

384
00:18:10,053 --> 00:18:14,333
Speaker 2: little artisan hotels for spoke hotels, cool little adventures that

385
00:18:14,373 --> 00:18:16,532
Speaker 2: you could have that will never be shown to you.

386
00:18:16,693 --> 00:18:19,292
Speaker 3: We're evolving into mindless slugs. What do you say, do

387
00:18:19,373 --> 00:18:22,453
Speaker 3: you trust this AI agent to do everything for you,

388
00:18:22,573 --> 00:18:25,653
Speaker 3: communicate for you, use your money? And how dumb is

389
00:18:25,693 --> 00:18:27,333
Speaker 3: this kind of make us love to hear from you?

390
00:18:27,493 --> 00:18:27,613
Speaker 9: Oh?

391
00:18:27,693 --> 00:18:29,453
Speaker 3: Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that nave

392
00:18:29,493 --> 00:18:31,853
Speaker 3: to call? Nineteen nine two is the Texas twenty six pas.

393
00:18:31,773 --> 00:18:36,093
Speaker 1: One, the headlines and the hard questions. It's the my

394
00:18:36,333 --> 00:18:37,733
Speaker 1: asking breakfast.

395
00:18:37,293 --> 00:18:39,813
Speaker 10: Contact Energy is net profit up twenty four percent of

396
00:18:39,813 --> 00:18:42,812
Speaker 10: Mike Poosias the Contact Energy Boss. What's the line between

397
00:18:42,853 --> 00:18:44,973
Speaker 10: your profit and my power bill?

398
00:18:44,973 --> 00:18:48,373
Speaker 11: Obviously we have to collect power bills, but the primary

399
00:18:48,413 --> 00:18:51,333
Speaker 11: reason for the profit increase is the investments we've made

400
00:18:51,413 --> 00:18:54,533
Speaker 11: and the acquisition of Manua. It's not about putting up prices.

401
00:18:54,653 --> 00:18:55,973
Speaker 2: My person really was given.

402
00:18:56,013 --> 00:18:57,893
Speaker 10: You've made so much profit, why not put some back

403
00:18:57,933 --> 00:19:00,213
Speaker 10: into my power bill and make it a smaller bill?

404
00:19:00,333 --> 00:19:02,253
Speaker 11: I lock the energy component of your power bill is

405
00:19:02,333 --> 00:19:05,413
Speaker 11: going up by adolescentslation. The important thing is we have

406
00:19:05,573 --> 00:19:09,813
Speaker 11: to invest and build more generation to meet the growing

407
00:19:09,813 --> 00:19:11,333
Speaker 11: demand and the new general economy.

408
00:19:11,613 --> 00:19:14,373
Speaker 10: Back tomorrow at six am the Mike Hosking Breakfast with

409
00:19:14,453 --> 00:19:17,093
Speaker 10: Maybe's Real Estate News talk z by.

410
00:19:16,733 --> 00:19:19,053
Speaker 3: Good Afternoons your twenty nine pass one, So would you

411
00:19:19,133 --> 00:19:22,093
Speaker 3: let Ai shop talk and pay for you and also

412
00:19:22,173 --> 00:19:24,653
Speaker 3: potentially make your dumber at the same time. Nine to

413
00:19:24,853 --> 00:19:25,733
Speaker 3: nine two is the text.

414
00:19:26,053 --> 00:19:27,573
Speaker 2: The sixth is I think the loss of reading a

415
00:19:27,613 --> 00:19:29,853
Speaker 2: map means we are losing spatial winness part of our

416
00:19:29,853 --> 00:19:35,253
Speaker 2: brain as we use Google Maps. I think just following

417
00:19:35,293 --> 00:19:37,973
Speaker 2: Google Maps has made that has made us dumber. Huge

418
00:19:38,013 --> 00:19:41,373
Speaker 2: thing the clients on it, because you know, you used

419
00:19:41,373 --> 00:19:44,013
Speaker 2: to if you're going to visit someone, they'd tell you

420
00:19:44,093 --> 00:19:47,693
Speaker 2: the the turns, or you've got to go go down

421
00:19:47,693 --> 00:19:49,493
Speaker 2: this street, go down that street, go down this, do

422
00:19:49,933 --> 00:19:52,293
Speaker 2: do this that, And people used about to remember that

423
00:19:53,333 --> 00:19:55,373
Speaker 2: you had to, Yeah, you had too if you're going

424
00:19:55,373 --> 00:19:57,773
Speaker 2: to get from somewhere to somewhere, either that or get

425
00:19:57,813 --> 00:19:59,693
Speaker 2: the map out. Yes, put it on the bottom of

426
00:19:59,693 --> 00:20:00,093
Speaker 2: the car, and.

427
00:20:00,013 --> 00:20:01,293
Speaker 3: We've got our AA directions.

428
00:20:01,293 --> 00:20:04,333
Speaker 2: So there's no doubt that our memory has has shrunk

429
00:20:04,573 --> 00:20:06,773
Speaker 2: on the back of the not having to constantly use

430
00:20:06,813 --> 00:20:10,573
Speaker 2: it all the time to remember direct to places or

431
00:20:11,493 --> 00:20:13,213
Speaker 2: you know. Another one is the amount of phone numbers

432
00:20:13,213 --> 00:20:15,573
Speaker 2: someone's take zig through here. I used to know a

433
00:20:15,613 --> 00:20:17,853
Speaker 2: bunch of my friend's phone numbers. Now we don't know

434
00:20:17,893 --> 00:20:19,893
Speaker 2: at all. Yep, So there's no doubt that your brain

435
00:20:19,933 --> 00:20:23,013
Speaker 2: has shrunk and lost that ability because you don't use

436
00:20:23,013 --> 00:20:25,173
Speaker 2: it anymore. Right, Yeah, so how much of your brain

437
00:20:25,213 --> 00:20:28,453
Speaker 2: do you just want to allowed to disappear?

438
00:20:28,613 --> 00:20:30,493
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean so true with the Google Maps. When

439
00:20:30,493 --> 00:20:32,813
Speaker 3: we're down in christ Church recently, and I lived there

440
00:20:32,813 --> 00:20:35,493
Speaker 3: for teen years for goodness sake, and because of my

441
00:20:35,613 --> 00:20:38,973
Speaker 3: reliance on Google Maps, I just found myself pulling up

442
00:20:39,013 --> 00:20:41,533
Speaker 3: the you know, the Google Maps to try and find

443
00:20:41,533 --> 00:20:43,572
Speaker 3: out how to get to a particular place. I used

444
00:20:43,613 --> 00:20:45,293
Speaker 3: to know that I lived there for ten years for

445
00:20:45,333 --> 00:20:48,533
Speaker 3: goodness sake, but my reliance on Google Maps has screwed

446
00:20:48,573 --> 00:20:50,413
Speaker 3: my sense of direction and the place that I used

447
00:20:50,413 --> 00:20:50,693
Speaker 3: to live.

448
00:20:50,853 --> 00:20:53,213
Speaker 2: Batistic says AI as a dream come true. Stop being

449
00:20:53,213 --> 00:20:55,653
Speaker 2: so bloody negative about it. I can't wait for AI

450
00:20:55,733 --> 00:20:58,373
Speaker 2: to take full effect. AI all the way. Good on you. Yeah,

451
00:20:58,413 --> 00:20:59,253
Speaker 2: welcome the show, Liz.

452
00:21:00,413 --> 00:21:03,213
Speaker 3: Hi there, Hi, Ken on your thoughts.

453
00:21:04,173 --> 00:21:06,693
Speaker 7: Hi, I really wanted to respond to you when you

454
00:21:07,093 --> 00:21:11,653
Speaker 7: use the words contract and shrinking and shrink for brains. Oh,

455
00:21:11,773 --> 00:21:15,333
Speaker 7: that's not what happens. What does happen is our brain

456
00:21:15,493 --> 00:21:19,853
Speaker 7: is an amazingly plastic organized organ, which means it can

457
00:21:19,933 --> 00:21:23,093
Speaker 7: respond to whatever stimulus we give it, So when we

458
00:21:23,253 --> 00:21:27,413
Speaker 7: stop giving it a stimulus, it stops developing in that direction.

459
00:21:27,573 --> 00:21:31,453
Speaker 7: So it's the brain a really competitive area that has

460
00:21:31,493 --> 00:21:34,133
Speaker 7: to There are so many different processes that the body

461
00:21:34,173 --> 00:21:36,413
Speaker 7: wants and that we want to use that if we

462
00:21:36,453 --> 00:21:40,333
Speaker 7: stop using one, So let's say you've got your leg amputated,

463
00:21:40,413 --> 00:21:44,093
Speaker 7: you actually lose that representation on the brain because something

464
00:21:44,133 --> 00:21:46,173
Speaker 7: else that needs a space will take over it.

465
00:21:46,773 --> 00:21:49,373
Speaker 9: So the whole if you don't lose it, you lose it.

466
00:21:49,373 --> 00:21:52,293
Speaker 7: It's just like your muscles, but it's happening in your brain.

467
00:21:52,453 --> 00:21:57,013
Speaker 7: So AI is this incredible tool, but if we don't

468
00:21:57,093 --> 00:22:00,413
Speaker 7: use our brain to do that particular function, so like

469
00:22:00,453 --> 00:22:02,973
Speaker 7: your hippocampus and being able to in your minds, I

470
00:22:03,093 --> 00:22:07,812
Speaker 7: think this is how I get to Bunning's being very

471
00:22:07,813 --> 00:22:08,893
Speaker 7: good at doing anymore.

472
00:22:09,613 --> 00:22:11,613
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I didn't mean shrink as in terms

473
00:22:11,653 --> 00:22:14,133
Speaker 2: of shrinking in size. I was sort of using it

474
00:22:14,173 --> 00:22:16,813
Speaker 2: as a metaphor. I mean, with muscles, it gets bigger

475
00:22:16,853 --> 00:22:19,373
Speaker 2: and smaller. But what I was meaning is what you're saying,

476
00:22:19,413 --> 00:22:23,493
Speaker 2: it loses our abilities. And you know you seem to

477
00:22:23,493 --> 00:22:26,613
Speaker 2: know quite a lot about this. Do that will be

478
00:22:26,693 --> 00:22:30,453
Speaker 2: across the number of things, right, So if you lose

479
00:22:30,493 --> 00:22:32,493
Speaker 2: if you stay, for example, the thing we're talking about,

480
00:22:32,973 --> 00:22:37,173
Speaker 2: you stop looking for genes and making a decision on

481
00:22:37,213 --> 00:22:41,653
Speaker 2: what the genes are and using your own taste, then

482
00:22:41,773 --> 00:22:44,213
Speaker 2: then that shrinking of the brain will be a will

483
00:22:44,813 --> 00:22:47,413
Speaker 2: will lose your ability over a number of things. Am

484
00:22:47,413 --> 00:22:47,693
Speaker 2: I right?

485
00:22:47,773 --> 00:22:50,333
Speaker 12: List The reason why.

486
00:22:50,213 --> 00:22:53,613
Speaker 7: I was reacted to shrinking is because with older adults

487
00:22:54,013 --> 00:22:56,773
Speaker 7: and the co processes that can happen, we do get

488
00:22:56,813 --> 00:22:59,532
Speaker 7: brain shrinkage. So I'm not going to agree with you

489
00:22:59,573 --> 00:23:02,093
Speaker 7: on the shrinkage, but I will say the functionality of

490
00:23:02,173 --> 00:23:04,333
Speaker 7: areas absolutely.

491
00:23:04,573 --> 00:23:09,333
Speaker 2: A better way to put it. Functionality it will decrease. Yes,

492
00:23:09,813 --> 00:23:12,213
Speaker 2: working agree on that one. So are you concerned about it?

493
00:23:12,293 --> 00:23:14,133
Speaker 2: Do you seem to be knowledgeable in the area. Are

494
00:23:14,173 --> 00:23:17,133
Speaker 2: you concerned that we're going to become like dogs that

495
00:23:17,293 --> 00:23:19,493
Speaker 2: just wins it the door for it to be open

496
00:23:19,533 --> 00:23:20,853
Speaker 2: because we're too dumb to do anything.

497
00:23:21,693 --> 00:23:21,893
Speaker 9: Yeah.

498
00:23:21,973 --> 00:23:24,093
Speaker 7: I think it's a great tool, and I think there's

499
00:23:24,173 --> 00:23:26,973
Speaker 7: some tasks that we will happily give it to it

500
00:23:27,013 --> 00:23:30,413
Speaker 7: to do. But what really concerns me is what has

501
00:23:30,453 --> 00:23:31,893
Speaker 7: the AI been trained on?

502
00:23:32,213 --> 00:23:32,413
Speaker 3: Right?

503
00:23:32,493 --> 00:23:35,893
Speaker 7: So a demo if the demographic training for genes is

504
00:23:36,053 --> 00:23:43,293
Speaker 7: like a size eight person who is many, many decades

505
00:23:43,333 --> 00:23:45,853
Speaker 7: younger than me. I don't want AI giving me the

506
00:23:45,973 --> 00:23:48,253
Speaker 7: genes that that person would like, because I'm thinking I

507
00:23:48,293 --> 00:23:51,653
Speaker 7: probably won't like those genes. So it's actually what has

508
00:23:51,693 --> 00:23:53,973
Speaker 7: been So what is the trend that AI is then

509
00:23:54,093 --> 00:23:58,133
Speaker 7: serving us to you about genes? And I'm mid fifties,

510
00:23:58,733 --> 00:24:01,093
Speaker 7: I'm very happy not having the same genes as a

511
00:24:01,133 --> 00:24:03,893
Speaker 7: fifteen year old. That's my personal choice. So right, So

512
00:24:04,493 --> 00:24:08,133
Speaker 7: what is AI crunching? What data is it using? Because

513
00:24:08,133 --> 00:24:12,133
Speaker 7: that's all it is. It's not thinking. It's just statistically,

514
00:24:12,213 --> 00:24:16,413
Speaker 7: like these large language models chuning it out and going, well.

515
00:24:17,493 --> 00:24:21,013
Speaker 2: What's the statistical It's like, it's like, what's the statistical

516
00:24:21,813 --> 00:24:24,973
Speaker 2: what humans generally want from a holiday? And let's let's

517
00:24:24,973 --> 00:24:29,613
Speaker 2: put up a from a previous experience what is And

518
00:24:29,653 --> 00:24:33,653
Speaker 2: as a result, that's a self enforcing loop where it

519
00:24:33,693 --> 00:24:35,693
Speaker 2: goes around because it keeps feeding the same thing, so

520
00:24:35,733 --> 00:24:38,173
Speaker 2: then the information gets the same. So then all of

521
00:24:38,253 --> 00:24:43,533
Speaker 2: a sudden, what we choose and what we expect becomes

522
00:24:43,573 --> 00:24:48,533
Speaker 2: what was previously chosen and what was presently previously expected.

523
00:24:49,813 --> 00:24:53,013
Speaker 2: And I think that just it's like processed food. It's

524
00:24:53,093 --> 00:24:55,813
Speaker 2: the processed food of lived experience.

525
00:24:56,813 --> 00:25:00,213
Speaker 3: I think so much if you call this yeah, fascinating inside.

526
00:25:00,253 --> 00:25:02,453
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Joe. One hundred and eighty ten

527
00:25:02,573 --> 00:25:05,053
Speaker 3: eighty is that number to call. So do you like

528
00:25:05,093 --> 00:25:08,733
Speaker 3: the idea of AI buying, talking, deciding for you or

529
00:25:08,773 --> 00:25:11,333
Speaker 3: is that a shortcut to the dumbing down of humanity?

530
00:25:11,413 --> 00:25:13,133
Speaker 3: Nine two nine two is the text as well.

531
00:25:13,253 --> 00:25:16,213
Speaker 2: Yeah, the humans and the movie walle just saying ps

532
00:25:16,293 --> 00:25:18,893
Speaker 2: I do love boob can drive through ais. I no

533
00:25:18,973 --> 00:25:22,693
Speaker 2: longer need to say everything three times, but yeah, a

534
00:25:22,733 --> 00:25:24,373
Speaker 2: bunch of people saying it is war e. That's what

535
00:25:24,373 --> 00:25:25,013
Speaker 2: we're describing.

536
00:25:25,093 --> 00:25:29,573
Speaker 3: Headlines coming up us talk said be headlines.

537
00:25:29,093 --> 00:25:33,053
Speaker 13: With your Ride, New Zealand's number one taxi app Download

538
00:25:33,093 --> 00:25:37,413
Speaker 13: your Ride today. Probes into the Teaching Council have found

539
00:25:37,413 --> 00:25:41,613
Speaker 13: not enough focus on protecting children and issues with leadership

540
00:25:41,653 --> 00:25:46,052
Speaker 13: and culture, and red flags over management of financial conflicts

541
00:25:46,053 --> 00:25:49,733
Speaker 13: of interest. A local state of emergency has been declared

542
00:25:49,733 --> 00:25:52,733
Speaker 13: for Banks Peninsula, which is cut off by flooding as

543
00:25:52,853 --> 00:25:57,053
Speaker 13: rain hammers the region. Christ Churches Heathcott River is flooding

544
00:25:57,093 --> 00:26:00,853
Speaker 13: surrounding properties and Dunedin is now under a heavy rain

545
00:26:00,933 --> 00:26:05,133
Speaker 13: morning until seven pm. Convoys are again canceled through the

546
00:26:05,173 --> 00:26:09,013
Speaker 13: East capes at Wilweka Gorge because of a revived risk

547
00:26:09,093 --> 00:26:13,653
Speaker 13: of slips. A person has been found dead after reports

548
00:26:13,653 --> 00:26:17,493
Speaker 13: of a dog attack in Northland's Kihu about eleven thirty

549
00:26:17,533 --> 00:26:21,853
Speaker 13: this morning. Auckland born former Keiweeds and NRL star Matt

550
00:26:21,933 --> 00:26:25,053
Speaker 13: Utaie is fighting for his life after being shot in

551
00:26:25,173 --> 00:26:28,493
Speaker 13: Sydney in a drive by attack on his home. The

552
00:26:28,533 --> 00:26:32,013
Speaker 13: Infrastructure Commission has released a thirty year plan for National Works,

553
00:26:32,333 --> 00:26:36,373
Speaker 13: warning big costs are looming for renewing failing systems, but

554
00:26:36,493 --> 00:26:41,293
Speaker 13: doing nothing now will just make things more expensive. SkyTV

555
00:26:41,413 --> 00:26:45,413
Speaker 13: to loose shows such as The Pit as HBO announces

556
00:26:45,453 --> 00:26:48,253
Speaker 13: direct to customer service in New Zealand. You can find

557
00:26:48,293 --> 00:26:50,453
Speaker 13: out more at Ends and Herald Premium. Now back to

558
00:26:50,493 --> 00:26:53,093
Speaker 13: Matt Eathan Tyler Adams, Thank you very much, Raylee.

559
00:26:53,133 --> 00:26:56,613
Speaker 2: Who here's about the pit It's the a Night of

560
00:26:56,653 --> 00:27:01,133
Speaker 2: the Seven Kingdoms? Yeah, yeah, go watch that Sopranos, Yeah,

561
00:27:01,173 --> 00:27:05,573
Speaker 2: the Wire, the Pits Rabbit right beg to our discussion.

562
00:27:05,613 --> 00:27:08,293
Speaker 3: So MasterCard, if you haven't bringing you up to speed,

563
00:27:08,373 --> 00:27:11,133
Speaker 3: This master Card is trialing AI agents to do everything

564
00:27:11,133 --> 00:27:13,173
Speaker 3: for you when it comes to online shopping. So there's

565
00:27:13,173 --> 00:27:15,853
Speaker 3: picking the product, communicating with anyone that needs to be

566
00:27:15,853 --> 00:27:19,693
Speaker 3: communicated with and using your own cards to make the purchase.

567
00:27:19,733 --> 00:27:21,933
Speaker 3: So the question we've got for you is would you

568
00:27:22,013 --> 00:27:24,333
Speaker 3: let AI make all those decisions talk for you and

569
00:27:24,373 --> 00:27:26,453
Speaker 3: spend your money? And how dumb do you think that

570
00:27:26,533 --> 00:27:28,373
Speaker 3: could make humanity and yourself?

571
00:27:28,413 --> 00:27:28,493
Speaker 5: Oh?

572
00:27:28,533 --> 00:27:30,053
Speaker 3: One hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number?

573
00:27:30,093 --> 00:27:32,573
Speaker 2: The six says the guys. The people, the people that

574
00:27:32,613 --> 00:27:35,413
Speaker 2: would use AI in this way are already beyond help

575
00:27:35,413 --> 00:27:37,773
Speaker 2: in my opinion, as most people the functioning brain wouldn't

576
00:27:37,813 --> 00:27:39,413
Speaker 2: go there in the first place. Cheers Craig.

577
00:27:39,973 --> 00:27:40,173
Speaker 4: Yeah.

578
00:27:40,213 --> 00:27:44,693
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want a pair of genes and

579
00:27:44,733 --> 00:27:47,933
Speaker 2: you're not willing to spend the time to find the

580
00:27:47,933 --> 00:27:49,453
Speaker 2: pair of genes you want, or if you're going to

581
00:27:49,493 --> 00:27:52,973
Speaker 2: go to another city and you're not prepared to spend

582
00:27:53,013 --> 00:27:54,773
Speaker 2: the time to find the hotel and make a decision

583
00:27:54,773 --> 00:27:58,613
Speaker 2: on it yourself. Are you already the type person that

584
00:27:58,693 --> 00:28:00,773
Speaker 2: was just willing to give up agency and you've just

585
00:28:00,773 --> 00:28:03,053
Speaker 2: just basically you're plug me into the matrix now type

586
00:28:03,093 --> 00:28:03,613
Speaker 2: person there.

587
00:28:03,693 --> 00:28:04,733
Speaker 3: I think there's a big element to that.

588
00:28:05,173 --> 00:28:06,773
Speaker 2: You're the type person that was given the option to

589
00:28:06,853 --> 00:28:08,613
Speaker 2: leave the matrix or stand in the matrix. When you

590
00:28:08,613 --> 00:28:10,173
Speaker 2: were told you in the matrix would say just leave

591
00:28:10,213 --> 00:28:12,653
Speaker 2: me in leave me and leave me in the pod.

592
00:28:12,813 --> 00:28:14,093
Speaker 3: You're not part of the resistance.

593
00:28:15,173 --> 00:28:17,093
Speaker 2: My pa did a lot for me. Why can't AI.

594
00:28:17,333 --> 00:28:19,413
Speaker 2: My brain can be busy on other more interesting or

595
00:28:19,453 --> 00:28:23,453
Speaker 2: rewarding things. But you probably had a relationship with your pa,

596
00:28:24,733 --> 00:28:29,213
Speaker 2: maybe sexual, no nation, It happened a lot in the eighties, yeah,

597
00:28:29,453 --> 00:28:31,693
Speaker 2: or the nineties, although I did read a thing recently

598
00:28:31,693 --> 00:28:34,093
Speaker 2: about that this is off topic. But what I'm saying

599
00:28:34,173 --> 00:28:35,493
Speaker 2: is that you would interact with them, and you'd know

600
00:28:35,533 --> 00:28:37,573
Speaker 2: about their family, and you know about their life, and

601
00:28:37,573 --> 00:28:39,693
Speaker 2: you maybe invite them out for dinner or lunch, and

602
00:28:39,693 --> 00:28:41,813
Speaker 2: they would become a person that would in your life.

603
00:28:41,893 --> 00:28:44,773
Speaker 2: You'd go to a Christmas party with your with your pa.

604
00:28:45,253 --> 00:28:47,373
Speaker 2: You'd buy them a present, they'd buy you a present.

605
00:28:47,413 --> 00:28:50,573
Speaker 2: It was It was a human interaction, and human interactions

606
00:28:50,693 --> 00:28:52,973
Speaker 2: are what humans need their mental health.

607
00:28:53,053 --> 00:28:53,213
Speaker 4: Right.

608
00:28:54,493 --> 00:28:59,373
Speaker 2: But speaking of having relations with AI, it was interesting

609
00:28:59,573 --> 00:29:04,093
Speaker 2: the study of bead where it's the average human makes

610
00:29:04,133 --> 00:29:06,533
Speaker 2: love to their partner about I think it was three

611
00:29:06,573 --> 00:29:11,853
Speaker 2: times a month and maybe I don't know.

612
00:29:13,973 --> 00:29:15,173
Speaker 3: It must be must be nice.

613
00:29:15,293 --> 00:29:19,573
Speaker 2: But people with AI six spots, it was up around

614
00:29:19,613 --> 00:29:24,093
Speaker 2: fifteen times and get very lucky, kind of unlucky and

615
00:29:24,413 --> 00:29:25,173
Speaker 2: lucky in a way.

616
00:29:25,253 --> 00:29:28,573
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's not the pinnacle of achievement, really is it.

617
00:29:28,933 --> 00:29:32,093
Speaker 2: I don't think you'd feel great about yourself. It will

618
00:29:32,133 --> 00:29:36,013
Speaker 2: be fifteen times a month where you're not feeling about

619
00:29:36,013 --> 00:29:36,893
Speaker 2: yourself afterwards.

620
00:29:36,893 --> 00:29:39,253
Speaker 3: There regrets the one hundred and eighty ten eightyes number

621
00:29:39,253 --> 00:29:40,133
Speaker 3: to call get a luise.

622
00:29:40,733 --> 00:29:43,253
Speaker 14: Oh god, guys, you're the only ones that could actually

623
00:29:43,493 --> 00:29:49,573
Speaker 14: have a spun on the AI. But content for goodness anyhow,

624
00:29:49,813 --> 00:29:55,493
Speaker 14: I apologies, No, it was great fun, great fun. I

625
00:29:55,613 --> 00:29:57,733
Speaker 14: totally agree. I mean, I know it's a little bit

626
00:29:57,733 --> 00:29:59,613
Speaker 14: of AI, but I found that a little bit of

627
00:29:59,693 --> 00:30:02,573
Speaker 14: AI that can tell you things that aren't you know

628
00:30:02,613 --> 00:30:04,773
Speaker 14: what I mean. So I wouldn't rely on as one

629
00:30:04,813 --> 00:30:08,533
Speaker 14: hundred percent and I definitely wouldn't rely on it. Who

630
00:30:08,533 --> 00:30:12,213
Speaker 14: booke me tickets to go anywhere? Because I'm a searcher

631
00:30:12,573 --> 00:30:15,053
Speaker 14: and I like searching around for bargains, and I'm not

632
00:30:15,093 --> 00:30:19,493
Speaker 14: going to let AI find me somewhere six months ahead

633
00:30:19,493 --> 00:30:22,133
Speaker 14: and then three months ahead I'll find something behalf the price,

634
00:30:22,813 --> 00:30:25,693
Speaker 14: So I won't be using it for that. But I

635
00:30:25,853 --> 00:30:28,933
Speaker 14: also sound a really good article you guys need to

636
00:30:28,973 --> 00:30:31,653
Speaker 14: read it. I think you are producer person who answered

637
00:30:31,653 --> 00:30:33,373
Speaker 14: the phones to put it up on screen for you.

638
00:30:34,093 --> 00:30:36,373
Speaker 14: Something that is from the New York Times. It's an

639
00:30:36,373 --> 00:30:41,173
Speaker 14: opinion piece a guest say, February eleventh, twenty six. Now

640
00:30:41,213 --> 00:30:45,573
Speaker 14: this person was a former researcher at open ai and

641
00:30:46,173 --> 00:30:50,573
Speaker 14: the heading is open ai is making mistakes Facebook made

642
00:30:50,893 --> 00:30:55,333
Speaker 14: I quit. Really good article. It delves into not only

643
00:30:55,413 --> 00:31:01,053
Speaker 14: what the AI are doing and now the chat ai

644
00:31:01,213 --> 00:31:03,653
Speaker 14: whatever it is, the Trenton stare, But it's all to

645
00:31:03,733 --> 00:31:08,413
Speaker 14: do with advertising and how they build their archives to

646
00:31:08,413 --> 00:31:13,173
Speaker 14: create potential manipulating users in the ways that they actually

647
00:31:13,213 --> 00:31:16,093
Speaker 14: still don't have the tools to understand. Let its own

648
00:31:16,173 --> 00:31:19,053
Speaker 14: prevent because a lot of people that are interacting it

649
00:31:19,333 --> 00:31:21,613
Speaker 14: with their voice and they tell them lots of things.

650
00:31:21,613 --> 00:31:25,093
Speaker 14: They tell them private thoughts about their medical stuff, their

651
00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:28,253
Speaker 14: relationship with stuff, their bliefs about God, everything, And so

652
00:31:28,373 --> 00:31:34,933
Speaker 14: this AI chat thing is forming opinions about the people

653
00:31:35,333 --> 00:31:38,533
Speaker 14: that are doing it that advertisers that can target because

654
00:31:38,533 --> 00:31:42,493
Speaker 14: they're bought in artificient intelligence to get ahead for marketing.

655
00:31:42,813 --> 00:31:44,093
Speaker 2: What was it? What was this?

656
00:31:44,253 --> 00:31:44,653
Speaker 5: Read it?

657
00:31:44,773 --> 00:31:44,893
Speaker 4: Oh?

658
00:31:44,933 --> 00:31:45,813
Speaker 2: Well, what day was it?

659
00:31:46,053 --> 00:31:49,653
Speaker 14: Did you say this was the New York Times, February

660
00:31:49,733 --> 00:31:54,053
Speaker 14: the eleventh, twenty six and it was an opinion guest

661
00:31:54,373 --> 00:31:58,253
Speaker 14: essay piece and the person who wrote it was Zoe

662
00:31:58,653 --> 00:32:04,773
Speaker 14: hit hit Zig. And it's a really great, great article.

663
00:32:05,213 --> 00:32:07,693
Speaker 14: I can't quote everything. I've only got a few snapshots

664
00:32:07,693 --> 00:32:10,653
Speaker 14: in it my Facebook page, but read it. It's brilliant.

665
00:32:11,173 --> 00:32:13,573
Speaker 2: We'll read that for sure, Louise, thanks so much for

666
00:32:13,653 --> 00:32:17,653
Speaker 2: your call. Yeah, that's another part of it that she's

667
00:32:17,693 --> 00:32:21,053
Speaker 2: talking about the people talking to the chat GPT and

668
00:32:21,053 --> 00:32:24,293
Speaker 2: having conversations back forward about you know, what they feel

669
00:32:24,333 --> 00:32:27,253
Speaker 2: about spirituality, their lives and everything, and you're talking to

670
00:32:27,293 --> 00:32:29,893
Speaker 2: a sick event that doesn't challenge you anyway. So even

671
00:32:29,933 --> 00:32:32,973
Speaker 2: your social brain gets Sorry, Liz, I'm not going to

672
00:32:33,013 --> 00:32:38,053
Speaker 2: say shrunk again. Your capabilities and your resources are put

673
00:32:38,093 --> 00:32:40,693
Speaker 2: somewhere else. So if you're just having all your emotional

674
00:32:40,813 --> 00:32:42,973
Speaker 2: chats that you should have with your pa, if it

675
00:32:43,013 --> 00:32:45,373
Speaker 2: was a real pay or you should have with your

676
00:32:45,453 --> 00:32:49,213
Speaker 2: partner or a friend around a table, that might be challenging.

677
00:32:49,253 --> 00:32:51,133
Speaker 2: They might say things you don't want. You may not

678
00:32:51,173 --> 00:32:54,093
Speaker 2: speak for them for a couple of days because they disagree,

679
00:32:54,133 --> 00:32:56,213
Speaker 2: and then you find a way back. And that's the

680
00:32:56,333 --> 00:33:00,293
Speaker 2: social brain growing. If you're just talking to one of

681
00:33:00,333 --> 00:33:03,813
Speaker 2: these AI sickophantic and whenever you talk to chet GPT,

682
00:33:03,853 --> 00:33:08,773
Speaker 2: it's so grossly sick of fantic. It's disgusting that that's

683
00:33:08,853 --> 00:33:10,173
Speaker 2: that part of your brain's not going to grow as

684
00:33:10,173 --> 00:33:13,453
Speaker 2: well because you're not being challenged by an actual human being.

685
00:33:13,613 --> 00:33:15,573
Speaker 3: Why do they design it like that? I mean, is

686
00:33:15,613 --> 00:33:20,093
Speaker 3: it too because it reinforces your own ideology because people

687
00:33:20,133 --> 00:33:21,973
Speaker 3: will look for a way to be soft.

688
00:33:22,573 --> 00:33:25,013
Speaker 2: That's why, Tyler, you know when I decided to sleep

689
00:33:25,053 --> 00:33:29,493
Speaker 2: outside for two months, that's right because I just was

690
00:33:29,533 --> 00:33:32,693
Speaker 2: getting too soft sleeping in a bed. But people will

691
00:33:32,773 --> 00:33:34,813
Speaker 2: choose the bed instead of sleeping outside.

692
00:33:34,453 --> 00:33:34,853
Speaker 5: Of the deck.

693
00:33:34,973 --> 00:33:36,773
Speaker 3: I do smart. I love my bed.

694
00:33:36,893 --> 00:33:39,413
Speaker 2: I've got so many insect bites out there. But I

695
00:33:39,453 --> 00:33:40,013
Speaker 2: made a point.

696
00:33:40,173 --> 00:33:42,853
Speaker 3: You didn't make a point, right, Beckon of It is

697
00:33:42,893 --> 00:33:45,653
Speaker 3: fourteen to two O eight one hundred eighty ten eighty

698
00:33:45,693 --> 00:33:48,693
Speaker 3: these AI agents doing your shopping for you. Is that

699
00:33:48,733 --> 00:33:51,893
Speaker 3: progress or is it going to make us all worthless? Slugs?

700
00:33:51,893 --> 00:33:52,933
Speaker 3: It is fourteen to two.

701
00:33:53,053 --> 00:33:55,413
Speaker 2: Just compare your dog to a wolf and that'll be

702
00:33:55,413 --> 00:33:56,293
Speaker 2: the difference.

703
00:33:57,973 --> 00:34:01,533
Speaker 1: Your home of Afternoon Talk Matt Heath and Taner Adam's

704
00:34:01,613 --> 00:34:03,253
Speaker 1: Afternoons with Skoda.

705
00:34:03,613 --> 00:34:05,973
Speaker 5: Can you crack the Scotera code news talk.

706
00:34:05,813 --> 00:34:08,933
Speaker 3: Say'd be very good afternoon, tude tone. How are you

707
00:34:09,013 --> 00:34:09,653
Speaker 3: this afternoon?

708
00:34:10,893 --> 00:34:11,133
Speaker 12: Hello?

709
00:34:11,373 --> 00:34:12,213
Speaker 3: Yeah, today Tony?

710
00:34:12,253 --> 00:34:14,453
Speaker 15: Can you hear your thoughts?

711
00:34:13,813 --> 00:34:13,853
Speaker 4: Like?

712
00:34:14,813 --> 00:34:17,693
Speaker 12: Well, I have to totally disagree.

713
00:34:17,213 --> 00:34:18,893
Speaker 15: With your both Actually good on you.

714
00:34:19,013 --> 00:34:19,533
Speaker 2: I like that.

715
00:34:20,973 --> 00:34:23,613
Speaker 15: Okay, just posted by I'm maybe five years of age.

716
00:34:24,133 --> 00:34:26,453
Speaker 2: You don't sound Tony. You sound very You've got I

717
00:34:26,533 --> 00:34:29,252
Speaker 2: would You've got the voice of a thirty three year old.

718
00:34:29,293 --> 00:34:30,373
Speaker 3: I would say, very chipper.

719
00:34:30,693 --> 00:34:33,053
Speaker 2: Are you healthy? You must be a very healthy pers if.

720
00:34:33,013 --> 00:34:35,973
Speaker 15: You stay healthy. But that's because of Ai.

721
00:34:36,613 --> 00:34:38,533
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, here we go, Here we go.

722
00:34:38,773 --> 00:34:39,133
Speaker 3: I love it.

723
00:34:40,413 --> 00:34:44,133
Speaker 15: No, okay, I like technology and I found well when

724
00:34:44,173 --> 00:34:47,093
Speaker 15: I left Score, I wasn't over the academic and but

725
00:34:47,293 --> 00:34:49,693
Speaker 15: I always consider myself to be smart.

726
00:34:49,773 --> 00:34:51,053
Speaker 12: And I think this is the point.

727
00:34:51,653 --> 00:34:54,813
Speaker 15: You just Tyler, just imagine that you're a top CEO

728
00:34:54,933 --> 00:34:57,853
Speaker 15: in one of our big businesses here in New Zealand. Okay, ye,

729
00:34:58,013 --> 00:35:00,093
Speaker 15: Now when you leave, when you leave home in the morning,

730
00:35:00,533 --> 00:35:02,133
Speaker 15: are you going to drive the hour to get to

731
00:35:02,213 --> 00:35:04,813
Speaker 15: work and drive and waste a work times or are

732
00:35:04,853 --> 00:35:07,173
Speaker 15: you going to get a corporate taxi sit in the

733
00:35:07,253 --> 00:35:10,813
Speaker 15: back while taxes driving you to work, you get on

734
00:35:10,933 --> 00:35:12,293
Speaker 15: doing your deals over the phone.

735
00:35:12,413 --> 00:35:12,573
Speaker 9: Yeah.

736
00:35:12,573 --> 00:35:14,933
Speaker 3: If I could have thought that, I do that way absolutely.

737
00:35:14,453 --> 00:35:17,373
Speaker 15: Because that's what I'm trying to say is if you

738
00:35:17,413 --> 00:35:20,373
Speaker 15: look back in time, you look at the big businesses

739
00:35:20,733 --> 00:35:24,373
Speaker 15: over the last work God done in the years that

740
00:35:24,573 --> 00:35:27,293
Speaker 15: they'll get that they're smart, that they'll get they'll get

741
00:35:27,333 --> 00:35:29,813
Speaker 15: somebody else to do the mun things, mundane things in

742
00:35:29,853 --> 00:35:32,493
Speaker 15: their life, like they'll have servants if you like, they'll

743
00:35:32,493 --> 00:35:34,812
Speaker 15: have a they'll have somewhere else drive them to work.

744
00:35:35,213 --> 00:35:37,893
Speaker 15: It gives them time to do the smart things and life.

745
00:35:38,333 --> 00:35:41,973
Speaker 15: And it's the smart people who use smart technology. It

746
00:35:42,093 --> 00:35:45,253
Speaker 15: doesn't make the smart people any dumber. It allows them

747
00:35:45,333 --> 00:35:48,933
Speaker 15: to expand their life and expand things. So that that's

748
00:35:49,013 --> 00:35:52,253
Speaker 15: where I think they're coming from, is it to I mean,

749
00:35:52,373 --> 00:35:55,693
Speaker 15: technology is just simply another tool. If you want to

750
00:35:55,813 --> 00:35:57,373
Speaker 15: use it, you can use it. I mean I have

751
00:35:57,533 --> 00:36:01,013
Speaker 15: friends who have a like a computer screen on their

752
00:36:01,133 --> 00:36:04,973
Speaker 15: on their on their fridge. They're both busy, both busy

753
00:36:05,133 --> 00:36:08,253
Speaker 15: working that fridge. When it gets down, the milk runs out,

754
00:36:08,453 --> 00:36:12,693
Speaker 15: Saint Raime's out automatically sends a signal through to super

755
00:36:12,973 --> 00:36:16,613
Speaker 15: to the store and he gets delivered. That's smart thinking.

756
00:36:17,173 --> 00:36:21,013
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, well thinking for you call Tony. I

757
00:36:21,093 --> 00:36:25,053
Speaker 2: think there's probably but I'm going to pick up on that.

758
00:36:25,173 --> 00:36:27,333
Speaker 2: We'll play some message we've just got it adds it. Yeah,

759
00:36:27,653 --> 00:36:29,413
Speaker 2: We're going to pick up on Tony's point because I'm

760
00:36:29,413 --> 00:36:30,133
Speaker 2: going to push back.

761
00:36:30,053 --> 00:36:30,772
Speaker 3: On what he just said.

762
00:36:30,853 --> 00:36:33,533
Speaker 2: Tony, we've got we're holding to our algorithm. It's about

763
00:36:33,533 --> 00:36:34,133
Speaker 2: to play some ads.

764
00:36:34,773 --> 00:36:36,333
Speaker 4: We've got to go. I just hate to do.

765
00:36:37,693 --> 00:36:41,252
Speaker 1: Matt Heath Tyler Adams taking your calls on eight hundred

766
00:36:41,253 --> 00:36:43,813
Speaker 1: and eighty ten eighty. It's mad Heath and Tyler Adams

767
00:36:43,973 --> 00:36:45,373
Speaker 1: Afternoons News Talks.

768
00:36:46,773 --> 00:36:47,813
Speaker 3: It is five to two.

769
00:36:47,933 --> 00:36:49,573
Speaker 2: Great call from Tony. Sorry we had to go to

770
00:36:49,733 --> 00:36:51,933
Speaker 2: ads and cut you off there. But what I'll push

771
00:36:52,053 --> 00:36:54,533
Speaker 2: back on and I'd use the philosophy. It's a great

772
00:36:54,533 --> 00:36:57,933
Speaker 2: Canadian philosopher called Marshall mclullan, and he talks about how

773
00:36:58,013 --> 00:37:01,373
Speaker 2: every invention just extends part of what humans are. So example,

774
00:37:01,413 --> 00:37:03,813
Speaker 2: a car extends your legs, so it makes your legs powerful,

775
00:37:03,853 --> 00:37:07,692
Speaker 2: your ability to travel, you know, a phone extends your ears,

776
00:37:07,733 --> 00:37:11,853
Speaker 2: and your social media extensibilities socialized. But each time it

777
00:37:11,973 --> 00:37:15,733
Speaker 2: takes ability off you. AI is a thing that extends

778
00:37:15,813 --> 00:37:18,293
Speaker 2: the power of your brain. But what that does that

779
00:37:18,413 --> 00:37:22,053
Speaker 2: it takes the power to think away from you. That's

780
00:37:22,093 --> 00:37:25,813
Speaker 2: what that's what happens. That's why we're fatter. And and

781
00:37:26,653 --> 00:37:28,453
Speaker 2: when it comes to the you know, the extension of

782
00:37:28,493 --> 00:37:30,453
Speaker 2: our legs. And if you, if you, if you look

783
00:37:30,493 --> 00:37:34,973
Speaker 2: into what hunters and gatherers were, like, brains were bigger everything.

784
00:37:35,013 --> 00:37:37,213
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's some argument that hunters and gatherers

785
00:37:37,253 --> 00:37:39,133
Speaker 2: would beat us at everything. They had to know everything

786
00:37:39,133 --> 00:37:42,773
Speaker 2: about their environment. They were had to be strong as

787
00:37:42,813 --> 00:37:45,013
Speaker 2: a wrestler. They would win every Olympic event.

788
00:37:45,373 --> 00:37:46,173
Speaker 3: Absolute machine.

789
00:37:46,253 --> 00:37:47,893
Speaker 2: So as we've gone through we've given up all our

790
00:37:47,933 --> 00:37:49,613
Speaker 2: physical abilities and now we're going to give up our

791
00:37:49,653 --> 00:37:51,813
Speaker 2: mental abilities to technology. So do you want to do that?

792
00:37:52,333 --> 00:37:55,773
Speaker 2: I say, do hard things because they they're they're good

793
00:37:55,813 --> 00:37:59,933
Speaker 2: for you doing hard things. Choose your own clothes, it's crazy, that'skin.

794
00:37:59,973 --> 00:38:02,333
Speaker 2: It's hard, now considered hard. Choose your own holidays. Do

795
00:38:02,493 --> 00:38:04,652
Speaker 2: things not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

796
00:38:04,693 --> 00:38:07,813
Speaker 2: Because every time you hand over another basic skill, you

797
00:38:07,893 --> 00:38:12,173
Speaker 2: become competent. First it's convenience, then it's dependence, once it's dependence.

798
00:38:12,213 --> 00:38:14,813
Speaker 2: You're a vulnerable then suddenly you are only feared. What

799
00:38:14,933 --> 00:38:17,773
Speaker 2: is advantageous for the company selling you the ticket's accommodation

800
00:38:17,893 --> 00:38:20,013
Speaker 2: or whatever it is you want. Then you have given

801
00:38:20,093 --> 00:38:23,253
Speaker 2: up your agency just because it wanted to be. You

802
00:38:23,373 --> 00:38:25,693
Speaker 2: wanted things to be a little bit easier. So do

803
00:38:25,853 --> 00:38:26,333
Speaker 2: hard things.

804
00:38:26,493 --> 00:38:30,573
Speaker 3: Yeah, nice message there. Do things for yourself, fight the power,

805
00:38:30,933 --> 00:38:34,613
Speaker 3: wipe your own bump, don't let the ai Wan great discussion.

806
00:38:34,693 --> 00:38:37,093
Speaker 3: Thank you to everyone who called antext on that one.

807
00:38:37,133 --> 00:38:39,693
Speaker 3: Coming up after two o'clock, we want to talk about Iraan.

808
00:38:39,733 --> 00:38:42,333
Speaker 3: What is happening near is night Mirror. Some estimates suggest

809
00:38:42,453 --> 00:38:45,733
Speaker 3: up to thirty six thousand people have been killed, yet

810
00:38:45,773 --> 00:38:49,693
Speaker 3: it hasn't sparked the same global outrage as other international crises.

811
00:38:49,813 --> 00:38:50,333
Speaker 5: Why is that.

812
00:38:50,693 --> 00:38:53,013
Speaker 3: We're going to be speaking to Professor Ali and Sari,

813
00:38:53,093 --> 00:38:57,493
Speaker 3: world leading historian and modern Iran. That is coming up next.

814
00:38:57,653 --> 00:38:59,853
Speaker 3: Stay tuned. We we'll be back very shortly.

815
00:39:03,533 --> 00:39:05,093
Speaker 5: Talking with you all afternoon.

816
00:39:05,293 --> 00:39:09,373
Speaker 1: It's Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoon Swiss News Talks.

817
00:39:11,053 --> 00:39:13,853
Speaker 3: Very good afternoons. You welcome back into the show. Six

818
00:39:13,973 --> 00:39:16,653
Speaker 3: past two and just a reminder, our friends at Skoda

819
00:39:16,693 --> 00:39:19,013
Speaker 3: could be sending you and a friend to the Tour

820
00:39:19,093 --> 00:39:21,693
Speaker 3: de France. When you play Skoda Codes. If you need

821
00:39:21,773 --> 00:39:24,533
Speaker 3: some help with today's clue, keep listening. We will have

822
00:39:24,693 --> 00:39:27,613
Speaker 3: a clue for you a little bit later this hour,

823
00:39:27,773 --> 00:39:30,893
Speaker 3: so stand by for that. Right this hour, we are

824
00:39:30,973 --> 00:39:34,133
Speaker 3: going to turn our focus to Iran. The situation there

825
00:39:34,253 --> 00:39:37,973
Speaker 3: is absolutely appalling. Estimates up to thirty six thousand lives

826
00:39:38,093 --> 00:39:41,693
Speaker 3: have been lost at the hands of the Islamic regime,

827
00:39:42,053 --> 00:39:45,653
Speaker 3: yet it hasn't grabbed the same global attention as other crises.

828
00:39:45,893 --> 00:39:48,173
Speaker 3: Why is that. A little bit later on, we are

829
00:39:48,213 --> 00:39:51,213
Speaker 3: going to be speaking to doctor Farau Ahman, she is

830
00:39:51,413 --> 00:39:54,333
Speaker 3: the head and founder of the Islamic Woman's Council here

831
00:39:54,453 --> 00:39:57,413
Speaker 3: in New Zealand, to discuss what is life like on

832
00:39:57,533 --> 00:40:00,453
Speaker 3: the ground in Iran. Right now, but joining us just

833
00:40:00,653 --> 00:40:04,733
Speaker 3: after the break, we will speak to Professor Ali Ansari.

834
00:40:04,813 --> 00:40:08,133
Speaker 3: He's going to help us unpack the history surrounding modern

835
00:40:08,653 --> 00:40:11,413
Speaker 3: He is a world leader in that area. So that

836
00:40:11,573 --> 00:40:12,893
Speaker 3: is coming up very shortly.

837
00:40:13,613 --> 00:40:17,733
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost a vacuum. It's such a huge event,

838
00:40:18,373 --> 00:40:22,573
Speaker 2: and we've had other events in the wide area that

839
00:40:22,773 --> 00:40:27,573
Speaker 2: have taken up so much of people's energy and the

840
00:40:27,733 --> 00:40:32,133
Speaker 2: media's time. Social media absolutely packed with it. You've had

841
00:40:32,213 --> 00:40:39,973
Speaker 2: people wearing the kafa in Parliament. It felt like it

842
00:40:40,133 --> 00:40:43,253
Speaker 2: was the biggest issue in New Zealand for a very

843
00:40:43,373 --> 00:40:47,933
Speaker 2: very long time, the Gaza situation, right, yep, correct, and

844
00:40:48,173 --> 00:40:51,252
Speaker 2: we're not This isn't about whether that is right or wrong.

845
00:40:51,573 --> 00:40:56,373
Speaker 2: It's about why is that same amount of energy not

846
00:40:56,533 --> 00:41:02,173
Speaker 2: being pumped into discussion around this current situation, horrible situation

847
00:41:02,533 --> 00:41:03,173
Speaker 2: in Iran.

848
00:41:03,573 --> 00:41:05,893
Speaker 3: It's confusing when you see that. And these are just

849
00:41:06,053 --> 00:41:10,893
Speaker 3: estimates because we don't know. Thirty six thousand Iranians killed

850
00:41:10,933 --> 00:41:13,853
Speaker 3: in this latest uprising, that's just the latest uprising. And

851
00:41:14,333 --> 00:41:16,053
Speaker 3: a little bit later on we will hear from doctor

852
00:41:16,173 --> 00:41:18,613
Speaker 3: Armin and you hear the conditions of what life is

853
00:41:18,773 --> 00:41:21,613
Speaker 3: like for everyday Iranians. But yet, as you say, not

854
00:41:21,733 --> 00:41:24,533
Speaker 3: a dicky bird, Not a dicky bird from those same

855
00:41:24,653 --> 00:41:27,333
Speaker 3: parties that were marching up and down the street pretty

856
00:41:27,373 --> 00:41:30,453
Speaker 3: much every week to crying what was a crisis, but

857
00:41:30,733 --> 00:41:31,373
Speaker 3: not this one?

858
00:41:32,533 --> 00:41:35,853
Speaker 2: Yeah, So why is that one hundred eighty ten eighty nine,

859
00:41:35,973 --> 00:41:37,773
Speaker 2: two ninety two, Why do you think that is? Why

860
00:41:37,813 --> 00:41:39,933
Speaker 2: do you think that you're not as engaged in it?

861
00:41:39,973 --> 00:41:41,693
Speaker 2: Because I've got to say I'm not as engaged in it,

862
00:41:42,493 --> 00:41:44,933
Speaker 2: to the point where we Tyler and I were talking

863
00:41:44,973 --> 00:41:46,773
Speaker 2: over at coffee once and we were like, why are

864
00:41:46,853 --> 00:41:48,853
Speaker 2: we not talking about this as much as we were

865
00:41:48,933 --> 00:41:52,893
Speaker 2: talking about another recent crisis in the area. Why is that?

866
00:41:53,293 --> 00:41:55,333
Speaker 2: And that's why we decided to lean into it and

867
00:41:56,733 --> 00:41:59,413
Speaker 2: reach out to some people that know what's going on.

868
00:41:59,773 --> 00:42:01,652
Speaker 2: And so we've got a couple of interviews that we're

869
00:42:01,693 --> 00:42:03,253
Speaker 2: going to do here just because we thought we need

870
00:42:03,333 --> 00:42:06,253
Speaker 2: to fill that vacuum with something.

871
00:42:06,453 --> 00:42:09,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's just so we It is eight hundred

872
00:42:09,653 --> 00:42:12,133
Speaker 3: and eighty ten eighty keen to get your thoughts about why.

873
00:42:12,693 --> 00:42:15,453
Speaker 3: But coming up next we speak to Professor Ali Ansari,

874
00:42:15,493 --> 00:42:18,732
Speaker 3: a world leading expert on modern Iran. It is nine

875
00:42:18,813 --> 00:42:20,733
Speaker 3: past two, Back very shortly.

876
00:42:22,013 --> 00:42:26,813
Speaker 1: Your home of afternoon Talk, mad Heathen Tyler Adams afternoons.

877
00:42:26,373 --> 00:42:29,133
Speaker 5: Call oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty Youth Talk.

878
00:42:29,053 --> 00:42:33,293
Speaker 3: ZEDB News Talk zedb. Iran has facing one of its

879
00:42:33,373 --> 00:42:36,692
Speaker 3: most serious waves of unrest in year's. Protests that began

880
00:42:36,893 --> 00:42:40,253
Speaker 3: over a collapsing currency and soaring living costs has spread

881
00:42:40,253 --> 00:42:43,453
Speaker 3: across the country, exposing deep frustration with the government's political

882
00:42:43,813 --> 00:42:47,573
Speaker 3: and economic direction. With the regime once again using violent

883
00:42:47,653 --> 00:42:50,853
Speaker 3: force to quell dissent. To help us understand how Iran

884
00:42:51,013 --> 00:42:53,093
Speaker 3: reached this point and what it could mean for the

885
00:42:53,133 --> 00:42:56,573
Speaker 3: future of the Islamic Republic, We're joined by Professor Ali

886
00:42:56,693 --> 00:42:59,772
Speaker 3: and Sari, a historian of modern Iran and a leading

887
00:42:59,813 --> 00:43:05,652
Speaker 3: expert on its politics, society, and international relations. Professor and Sari, welcome.

888
00:43:05,693 --> 00:43:06,293
Speaker 4: Good to be with you.

889
00:43:06,853 --> 00:43:09,692
Speaker 2: This is a big question, but can you quickly sum

890
00:43:09,853 --> 00:43:13,253
Speaker 2: up the history of Iran from the Persian era until

891
00:43:13,933 --> 00:43:15,053
Speaker 2: the Islamic Revolution.

892
00:43:15,533 --> 00:43:16,093
Speaker 4: Well, I'm not sure.

893
00:43:16,133 --> 00:43:17,613
Speaker 8: I'm not sure we can do it very quickly. But

894
00:43:17,693 --> 00:43:21,333
Speaker 8: I mean, up until nineteen seventy nine, Iran was a monarchy.

895
00:43:21,653 --> 00:43:25,733
Speaker 8: A monarchy that, certainly in the twentieth century and for

896
00:43:25,893 --> 00:43:28,613
Speaker 8: much of the I mean, I suppose for the previous

897
00:43:28,613 --> 00:43:30,893
Speaker 8: two hundred years it had contended with the challenge of

898
00:43:31,573 --> 00:43:34,493
Speaker 8: what was then obviously the British and Russian Empires, and

899
00:43:34,573 --> 00:43:38,213
Speaker 8: then the twentieth century had sort of modernize itself. But

900
00:43:38,373 --> 00:43:43,053
Speaker 8: in modernizing and in moving forward on certain levels, I mean,

901
00:43:43,213 --> 00:43:44,853
Speaker 8: one of the things that the monarchy failed to do,

902
00:43:44,973 --> 00:43:48,133
Speaker 8: I think was too although it had advanced economically, it

903
00:43:48,173 --> 00:43:50,693
Speaker 8: didn't do so politically very quickly. And one of the

904
00:43:50,733 --> 00:43:54,173
Speaker 8: consequences of that course is that people who were becoming educated,

905
00:43:54,253 --> 00:43:57,133
Speaker 8: were becoming more literate, were becoming wealthier, were finding that

906
00:43:57,213 --> 00:43:58,973
Speaker 8: they were cut out from the sort of the political

907
00:43:59,013 --> 00:44:00,413
Speaker 8: life of the country. And you know, one of the

908
00:44:00,453 --> 00:44:03,133
Speaker 8: consequences I suppose was the was the Islamic Revolution in

909
00:44:03,213 --> 00:44:06,213
Speaker 8: nineteen seventy nine. So the Islamic Revolution then takes the

910
00:44:06,293 --> 00:44:09,853
Speaker 8: country down another route. On the one level, it becomes

911
00:44:09,893 --> 00:44:12,692
Speaker 8: a republic as opposed to a monarchy, but then it's

912
00:44:12,693 --> 00:44:16,253
Speaker 8: an Islamic republic, and that means that it's sort of

913
00:44:16,293 --> 00:44:20,933
Speaker 8: a hybrid, a rather awkward marriage, I think is the

914
00:44:20,973 --> 00:44:23,053
Speaker 8: best way to look at it, where it's got sort

915
00:44:23,053 --> 00:44:27,373
Speaker 8: of republican elements which we would find familiar, but overlain

916
00:44:27,493 --> 00:44:31,373
Speaker 8: over that is this sort of Islamic theocracy. And over

917
00:44:31,413 --> 00:44:35,493
Speaker 8: the last forty seven years, the republic has essentially faded

918
00:44:35,533 --> 00:44:39,853
Speaker 8: out of view and the Islamic autocracy has become much

919
00:44:39,933 --> 00:44:43,172
Speaker 8: much more prominent and is front and center. And it's

920
00:44:43,293 --> 00:44:48,013
Speaker 8: really that sort of failure yet again to respond to

921
00:44:48,173 --> 00:44:50,653
Speaker 8: society's needs and to move towards the sort of a

922
00:44:50,693 --> 00:44:54,773
Speaker 8: political settlement that we might describe as democratic, that has

923
00:44:54,893 --> 00:44:57,933
Speaker 8: resulted in yet more protests, and the protests are now

924
00:44:58,693 --> 00:45:03,013
Speaker 8: becoming very, very severe, particularly because unlike the monarchy that

925
00:45:03,133 --> 00:45:06,453
Speaker 8: it overthrew, the Islamic Republic has shown itself to be

926
00:45:07,053 --> 00:45:11,133
Speaker 8: particularly inept and particularly incompetent, and particularly corrupt in the

927
00:45:11,213 --> 00:45:14,133
Speaker 8: handling of the economy. So whatever that was wrong with

928
00:45:14,213 --> 00:45:16,973
Speaker 8: the Shah and the Shah's regime, at the end of

929
00:45:17,013 --> 00:45:20,373
Speaker 8: the day, the economy wasn't in bad shape. In fact,

930
00:45:20,413 --> 00:45:23,013
Speaker 8: one would argue that it's precisely because the economy was

931
00:45:23,053 --> 00:45:26,293
Speaker 8: doing reasonably well that people had attained a certain level

932
00:45:26,373 --> 00:45:27,573
Speaker 8: of aspiration.

933
00:45:27,173 --> 00:45:28,493
Speaker 4: That had pushed them towards revolution.

934
00:45:29,293 --> 00:45:32,973
Speaker 8: But now you're finding a situation where on many different

935
00:45:33,053 --> 00:45:35,133
Speaker 8: levels there's a huge amount of discontent because of the

936
00:45:35,213 --> 00:45:38,013
Speaker 8: inability of the regime to actually deliver on basic goods

937
00:45:38,053 --> 00:45:40,213
Speaker 8: for the people. So on every different level there's a

938
00:45:40,253 --> 00:45:41,773
Speaker 8: sort of a crisis facing the regime.

939
00:45:42,133 --> 00:45:45,373
Speaker 2: Describe the structure of the Iranian political system since then?

940
00:45:46,173 --> 00:45:47,533
Speaker 2: Was it doomed to fail?

941
00:45:48,093 --> 00:45:50,213
Speaker 8: I don't think you can ever say that any the

942
00:45:50,293 --> 00:45:52,413
Speaker 8: collapse of any political system is inevitable. I mean, I

943
00:45:53,213 --> 00:45:55,893
Speaker 8: think there were opportunities in these forty seven years when

944
00:45:55,933 --> 00:45:58,093
Speaker 8: the Islamic Republican and its leadership might have taken a

945
00:45:58,133 --> 00:46:00,893
Speaker 8: different path, and certainly, up until two thousand and five,

946
00:46:01,013 --> 00:46:04,093
Speaker 8: there was the opportunity for the regime to go down

947
00:46:04,133 --> 00:46:07,013
Speaker 8: a much more open, transparent, accountable you know, we could

948
00:46:07,053 --> 00:46:09,533
Speaker 8: call it a sort of democratic room. But since two

949
00:46:09,573 --> 00:46:12,933
Speaker 8: thousand and five it's moved emphatically towards this sort of autocratic,

950
00:46:13,533 --> 00:46:16,533
Speaker 8: autocratic bend, and that has basically undermined it. Now you

951
00:46:16,613 --> 00:46:18,652
Speaker 8: could say the roots of all this were clear from

952
00:46:18,693 --> 00:46:20,813
Speaker 8: nineteen seventy nine, and I think that's fair.

953
00:46:20,893 --> 00:46:22,493
Speaker 4: I mean, you can look at the problems.

954
00:46:22,853 --> 00:46:25,053
Speaker 8: One of the major issues of the Islamic Revolution the

955
00:46:25,453 --> 00:46:27,933
Speaker 8: Republic that followed it is that, of course it inherited

956
00:46:27,933 --> 00:46:30,653
Speaker 8: a fairly sort of powerful state from the path of

957
00:46:30,693 --> 00:46:33,773
Speaker 8: the monarchy. So it inherited it a fairly sort of

958
00:46:34,013 --> 00:46:35,933
Speaker 8: in terms of lives lost, it has to be sold

959
00:46:35,933 --> 00:46:40,373
Speaker 8: on a fairly cheap price, and so it got this

960
00:46:40,813 --> 00:46:44,413
Speaker 8: sort of conception of it. So it basically the revolutionary

961
00:46:44,493 --> 00:46:48,933
Speaker 8: leadership became complacent, became arrogant, became hubristic.

962
00:46:49,293 --> 00:46:50,213
Speaker 4: They couldn't believe.

963
00:46:50,013 --> 00:46:53,053
Speaker 8: Their luck that they'd inherited this rather wealthy state, you know,

964
00:46:53,253 --> 00:46:54,533
Speaker 8: at a relatively light cost.

965
00:46:54,893 --> 00:46:57,453
Speaker 4: They obviously ascribed this aut of divine provenance. You know,

966
00:46:57,653 --> 00:46:58,133
Speaker 4: this was the.

967
00:46:59,613 --> 00:47:02,652
Speaker 8: This was God bestowing blessings upon them, and they were

968
00:47:02,733 --> 00:47:05,533
Speaker 8: duty bound to obviously spend these wonderful blessings.

969
00:47:05,893 --> 00:47:06,253
Speaker 4: But as a.

970
00:47:06,293 --> 00:47:08,693
Speaker 8: Consequence of that, they never really learned the value anything,

971
00:47:08,853 --> 00:47:13,053
Speaker 8: and they didn't really learn that. You know, the state

972
00:47:13,133 --> 00:47:15,212
Speaker 8: needs to be built, I mean, the state and its

973
00:47:15,293 --> 00:47:17,653
Speaker 8: variety of forms. You have to invest in it, and

974
00:47:17,933 --> 00:47:19,853
Speaker 8: they didn't. And as a consequence of that, you know,

975
00:47:19,933 --> 00:47:23,613
Speaker 8: they spent down an inheritance. And as I said, you know,

976
00:47:23,693 --> 00:47:25,893
Speaker 8: really from two thousand and five one was they accelerated

977
00:47:25,973 --> 00:47:30,093
Speaker 8: down this route of extraordinary hubris and corruption. And this

978
00:47:30,213 --> 00:47:33,293
Speaker 8: is unfortunately the state we see today where a country

979
00:47:33,493 --> 00:47:36,173
Speaker 8: that sits on the second largest natural gas reserves in

980
00:47:36,213 --> 00:47:38,333
Speaker 8: the world, the fourth largest oil reserves in the world,

981
00:47:39,493 --> 00:47:43,333
Speaker 8: an abundance of human and other sort of capital, cannot

982
00:47:43,373 --> 00:47:46,893
Speaker 8: deliver water, gas, electricity whatever to its people because.

983
00:47:46,653 --> 00:47:49,973
Speaker 4: It's failed to failed to invest in basic infrastructure.

984
00:47:50,253 --> 00:47:54,213
Speaker 3: You've argued the Islamic Republic is likely entering their terminal phase. So,

985
00:47:54,333 --> 00:47:57,653
Speaker 3: with all those elements in mind, from a historical bespeaker,

986
00:47:58,413 --> 00:48:02,253
Speaker 3: is this moment different from the crises the regime has

987
00:48:02,293 --> 00:48:04,772
Speaker 3: survived before well, I think.

988
00:48:04,693 --> 00:48:07,173
Speaker 8: All these crises build and reinforce on each other. So

989
00:48:07,293 --> 00:48:09,213
Speaker 8: as a historian, I have to say I do take

990
00:48:09,253 --> 00:48:11,573
Speaker 8: the long view, and for me, you know, two thousand

991
00:48:11,613 --> 00:48:13,813
Speaker 8: and nine is really the inflection point, you know, when

992
00:48:13,933 --> 00:48:16,933
Speaker 8: things begin to turn. And I think in future historians

993
00:48:16,973 --> 00:48:18,652
Speaker 8: when they look back at the demise of these aunt

994
00:48:18,693 --> 00:48:20,453
Speaker 8: republic they will look at two thousand and nine as

995
00:48:20,493 --> 00:48:23,893
Speaker 8: that pivot. And that's the moment when people basically decided

996
00:48:23,933 --> 00:48:25,133
Speaker 8: that reform is impossible.

997
00:48:25,213 --> 00:48:28,212
Speaker 4: But you know, this is not getting anywhere, and things

998
00:48:28,213 --> 00:48:28,933
Speaker 4: are going to be difficult.

999
00:48:28,933 --> 00:48:31,213
Speaker 8: But of course this takes time, and when you have

1000
00:48:31,373 --> 00:48:33,853
Speaker 8: huge resources at your beck and call, you can sort

1001
00:48:33,893 --> 00:48:35,693
Speaker 8: of resist, or you can slow the process of decay

1002
00:48:35,693 --> 00:48:38,133
Speaker 8: as far as you as far as you might manage it.

1003
00:48:38,173 --> 00:48:40,853
Speaker 8: But then twenty seventeen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty two, and

1004
00:48:40,893 --> 00:48:43,693
Speaker 8: again now twenty twenty six, you get a series of protests,

1005
00:48:43,733 --> 00:48:47,453
Speaker 8: each of which sort of work to, you know, break

1006
00:48:47,573 --> 00:48:49,613
Speaker 8: down the social and political fabric of the state.

1007
00:48:50,173 --> 00:48:53,493
Speaker 4: Now, you know, when we get that tipping point. Who knows?

1008
00:48:53,973 --> 00:48:56,173
Speaker 8: What we do know is that both in twenty nineteen

1009
00:48:56,693 --> 00:48:59,413
Speaker 8: also now they've shown the weakness of the state and

1010
00:48:59,493 --> 00:49:02,133
Speaker 8: also the regime itself has viewed them as in some

1011
00:49:02,253 --> 00:49:03,093
Speaker 8: ways existential.

1012
00:49:03,133 --> 00:49:04,893
Speaker 4: See, you know, these could have tipped over. I mean,

1013
00:49:04,933 --> 00:49:05,893
Speaker 4: both of these could have tipped over.

1014
00:49:05,973 --> 00:49:09,333
Speaker 8: They didn't, particularly because in this case they used extraordinary

1015
00:49:09,413 --> 00:49:12,533
Speaker 8: levels of violence. But my sense is that the level

1016
00:49:12,573 --> 00:49:15,773
Speaker 8: of violence is so excessive on this occasion that they

1017
00:49:15,813 --> 00:49:18,053
Speaker 8: have really indulged in overkill. I mean, there is no

1018
00:49:18,453 --> 00:49:21,013
Speaker 8: going back to them from this. And you listen to

1019
00:49:21,053 --> 00:49:23,053
Speaker 8: people in Iran as well that even people who are

1020
00:49:23,053 --> 00:49:25,533
Speaker 8: sort of loyal in a sense to the political system

1021
00:49:25,853 --> 00:49:27,813
Speaker 8: are really in deep shock at what's happened. I mean,

1022
00:49:27,853 --> 00:49:29,453
Speaker 8: one of them I was listening today. I mean he's

1023
00:49:29,493 --> 00:49:32,172
Speaker 8: been arrested, obviously, because that's what happens when you speak out.

1024
00:49:32,613 --> 00:49:34,813
Speaker 8: But he basically said that this is the darkest day

1025
00:49:34,853 --> 00:49:36,933
Speaker 8: in the history of the lunty Republican and one of

1026
00:49:36,973 --> 00:49:38,373
Speaker 8: the darkest days in the history of ir arm and

1027
00:49:38,453 --> 00:49:39,533
Speaker 8: we will never recover from it.

1028
00:49:39,613 --> 00:49:40,813
Speaker 4: I mean, he basically say it.

1029
00:49:40,893 --> 00:49:43,533
Speaker 8: You know, the vast majority of people who are killed

1030
00:49:43,573 --> 00:49:45,933
Speaker 8: in the last you know, in January were between the

1031
00:49:45,973 --> 00:49:49,013
Speaker 8: ages of sort of sixteen and twenty five, at possibly thirty,

1032
00:49:49,093 --> 00:49:51,373
Speaker 8: but I mean certainly young. And you know, we are

1033
00:49:51,453 --> 00:49:54,292
Speaker 8: now thinking that probably up to upwards about twenty thousand

1034
00:49:54,333 --> 00:49:57,893
Speaker 8: people were slaughtered. Now that's an extraordinary, extraordinary level of

1035
00:49:57,973 --> 00:50:00,093
Speaker 8: violence for a state to inflict upon its own population,

1036
00:50:00,733 --> 00:50:03,013
Speaker 8: its own unarmed population, it has to be said. But

1037
00:50:03,253 --> 00:50:05,573
Speaker 8: you know what the consequences of this, people are arming.

1038
00:50:05,733 --> 00:50:07,773
Speaker 8: I mean, it's a natural contient if you're going to

1039
00:50:07,813 --> 00:50:09,293
Speaker 8: find that, you're going to vunderable to this sort of thing.

1040
00:50:09,333 --> 00:50:11,933
Speaker 8: People are finding guns and they're beginning to arm themselves.

1041
00:50:11,973 --> 00:50:14,693
Speaker 8: And one of the anxieties that people had is the

1042
00:50:14,853 --> 00:50:18,293
Speaker 8: level of hate between these two groups in society is

1043
00:50:18,653 --> 00:50:22,013
Speaker 8: probably unbridgable. I mean, it's it's it's it's become quite

1044
00:50:22,093 --> 00:50:25,213
Speaker 8: quite disastrous. And he was very much lamenting just how

1045
00:50:25,293 --> 00:50:28,652
Speaker 8: bad everything had become. I mean, he you know, it's

1046
00:50:28,733 --> 00:50:31,613
Speaker 8: quite tragic to hear actually some of the more reflective

1047
00:50:32,173 --> 00:50:33,653
Speaker 8: comments going on about what's happened.

1048
00:50:33,893 --> 00:50:39,093
Speaker 3: We're speaking to professor Ali Ansari and historian in Iranian history.

1049
00:50:39,333 --> 00:50:42,333
Speaker 3: More very shortly, you're listening to News Talk ZB back

1050
00:50:42,413 --> 00:50:46,533
Speaker 3: in a moment, mad.

1051
00:50:46,613 --> 00:50:49,773
Speaker 1: Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and

1052
00:50:49,813 --> 00:50:51,973
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZEDB.

1053
00:50:52,413 --> 00:50:55,453
Speaker 3: News Talks EDB we're speaking to Professor Ali and Sari,

1054
00:50:55,493 --> 00:50:59,293
Speaker 3: a leading historian on the history of Iran. Thanks again

1055
00:50:59,333 --> 00:51:00,253
Speaker 3: for your time, professor.

1056
00:51:00,653 --> 00:51:05,253
Speaker 2: If the people overthrow the regime or it catastrophically fails,

1057
00:51:05,853 --> 00:51:07,453
Speaker 2: what as likely to replace it?

1058
00:51:08,053 --> 00:51:08,973
Speaker 4: Well, well, I mean at the.

1059
00:51:08,973 --> 00:51:12,053
Speaker 8: Moment, so one of the things that we would we

1060
00:51:12,133 --> 00:51:13,813
Speaker 8: were considering was the fact that, you know, would their

1061
00:51:13,853 --> 00:51:16,053
Speaker 8: people be people within the system We would come in

1062
00:51:16,133 --> 00:51:19,013
Speaker 8: to sort of like maybe try and save it, you know,

1063
00:51:19,053 --> 00:51:21,333
Speaker 8: maybe more moderate figures. Now what's happened with the last

1064
00:51:21,333 --> 00:51:23,252
Speaker 8: week is they've arrested all these people. I mean, they've

1065
00:51:23,253 --> 00:51:25,693
Speaker 8: basically already said that, you know, these people plan to

1066
00:51:25,773 --> 00:51:27,733
Speaker 8: launch a coup you know. Now whether they were or not,

1067
00:51:27,933 --> 00:51:31,252
Speaker 8: who knows, but the point is clearly they're already worried

1068
00:51:31,253 --> 00:51:35,493
Speaker 8: about that. So, you know, the most likely thing, unfortunately

1069
00:51:35,493 --> 00:51:37,093
Speaker 8: in the short term, is that it's going to get

1070
00:51:37,173 --> 00:51:40,133
Speaker 8: much much messier. I mean, they haven't really given themselves

1071
00:51:40,173 --> 00:51:42,413
Speaker 8: options for a sort of a natural replacement to come in.

1072
00:51:42,933 --> 00:51:46,093
Speaker 8: They think they can sustain themselves purely through the use

1073
00:51:46,133 --> 00:51:50,333
Speaker 8: of violence. Some of them are basically angling that, you know,

1074
00:51:50,573 --> 00:51:52,133
Speaker 8: there will be a war. Actually, I mean some of

1075
00:51:52,173 --> 00:51:54,093
Speaker 8: them are quite excited by this fact that they might

1076
00:51:54,133 --> 00:51:56,292
Speaker 8: be a war with the United States. I mean, again,

1077
00:51:56,373 --> 00:51:59,013
Speaker 8: it beggars belief in my mind that they don't really

1078
00:51:59,053 --> 00:52:00,413
Speaker 8: have a comprehension of what this means.

1079
00:52:01,093 --> 00:52:03,533
Speaker 4: And again, you know, those people who are more aware

1080
00:52:03,533 --> 00:52:05,533
Speaker 4: of what this means are extremely worried.

1081
00:52:05,573 --> 00:52:07,853
Speaker 8: I mean, they're extremely worried about the consequences, for instance,

1082
00:52:07,933 --> 00:52:12,773
Speaker 8: of a Trump attack, an American attack. So I think

1083
00:52:12,813 --> 00:52:15,013
Speaker 8: in the short term, I think we have to prepare

1084
00:52:15,093 --> 00:52:17,453
Speaker 8: ourselves in the international community. And I say this also

1085
00:52:17,533 --> 00:52:20,053
Speaker 8: to you know, Arab colleagues, the Turks and others, all

1086
00:52:20,133 --> 00:52:21,533
Speaker 8: of whom are desperately anxious to.

1087
00:52:21,533 --> 00:52:23,093
Speaker 4: Avoid any instability in the region.

1088
00:52:23,493 --> 00:52:25,613
Speaker 8: I think instability is coming, whether we like it or not,

1089
00:52:25,813 --> 00:52:27,973
Speaker 8: and I think we need to prepare for it. And

1090
00:52:28,053 --> 00:52:29,573
Speaker 8: it's either going to happen quickly or it's going to

1091
00:52:29,573 --> 00:52:32,252
Speaker 8: happen slowly. But the system in Iran at the moment

1092
00:52:32,573 --> 00:52:35,773
Speaker 8: is I think, sort of crumbling from within. Either the

1093
00:52:35,813 --> 00:52:38,933
Speaker 8: Americans will accelerate that process or it will happen a

1094
00:52:39,013 --> 00:52:41,893
Speaker 8: little bit more slowly. But you know, to borrow from

1095
00:52:41,933 --> 00:52:45,213
Speaker 8: that Hemingway phrase, you know, how did you go bankrupt

1096
00:52:45,413 --> 00:52:48,013
Speaker 8: slowly and then very quickly? I think we're really on

1097
00:52:48,093 --> 00:52:50,173
Speaker 8: the precipice now in Iran. I mean, it's not a

1098
00:52:50,973 --> 00:52:53,453
Speaker 8: it's not unlikely. You know that the currency will will

1099
00:52:53,533 --> 00:52:55,093
Speaker 8: face it. You know, we'll have a run on the

1100
00:52:55,133 --> 00:52:57,093
Speaker 8: currency and you know, inflation will go through the roof.

1101
00:52:57,133 --> 00:52:59,813
Speaker 8: And actually what you'll find is the economy is imploding

1102
00:52:59,893 --> 00:53:02,653
Speaker 8: and of course all the things that the regional neighbors

1103
00:53:02,693 --> 00:53:05,853
Speaker 8: are very anxious about, you know, refugees and refugee flows,

1104
00:53:05,893 --> 00:53:06,772
Speaker 8: whatever it is, going to happen.

1105
00:53:06,813 --> 00:53:08,973
Speaker 4: I mean, people are going to start fleeing out. So

1106
00:53:09,253 --> 00:53:13,172
Speaker 4: it's it's you know, the short term prognosis is not good.

1107
00:53:14,573 --> 00:53:17,653
Speaker 8: But I do think people in the region and abroad

1108
00:53:17,773 --> 00:53:21,613
Speaker 8: need to prepare a little bit better, even psychologically.

1109
00:53:21,653 --> 00:53:23,573
Speaker 4: I have to say for what might happen, because I

1110
00:53:23,653 --> 00:53:24,093
Speaker 4: have to say it.

1111
00:53:24,093 --> 00:53:25,693
Speaker 8: At the moment, you know, when you look across the

1112
00:53:25,693 --> 00:53:27,333
Speaker 8: foreign ministries of the world, there's a sort of a

1113
00:53:28,013 --> 00:53:29,013
Speaker 8: head in the sand moment.

1114
00:53:29,053 --> 00:53:30,733
Speaker 4: You know, we were trying to pretend that actually it

1115
00:53:30,813 --> 00:53:35,773
Speaker 4: all be fine. It's it's it's simply not going to

1116
00:53:35,813 --> 00:53:36,173
Speaker 4: be like that.

1117
00:53:36,333 --> 00:53:40,212
Speaker 8: And I don't know how how else to say it, really,

1118
00:53:40,293 --> 00:53:42,773
Speaker 8: I mean, unless the regime has some sort of epiphany

1119
00:53:43,213 --> 00:53:45,613
Speaker 8: and suddenly decides. Actually, you know, we've done the last

1120
00:53:45,613 --> 00:53:47,293
Speaker 8: forty seven years have been a fiasco and we need

1121
00:53:47,373 --> 00:53:50,212
Speaker 8: to just be normal, which is why most people say

1122
00:53:50,453 --> 00:53:52,973
Speaker 8: the rational decision would be come to an agree with

1123
00:53:53,053 --> 00:53:55,173
Speaker 8: the United States, come to an agreement with you know.

1124
00:53:55,693 --> 00:53:57,453
Speaker 4: But that's not the sort of response.

1125
00:53:57,093 --> 00:53:59,252
Speaker 8: You're getting from within Iran at the moment, not among

1126
00:53:59,373 --> 00:54:02,213
Speaker 8: that particular group that you know, holding the guns and

1127
00:54:02,293 --> 00:54:03,933
Speaker 8: holding the country to ransom effectively.

1128
00:54:04,413 --> 00:54:06,373
Speaker 2: Do you have a theory on why the WIST seems

1129
00:54:06,413 --> 00:54:09,813
Speaker 2: to be ignoring the situation? There a few matches and support,

1130
00:54:10,773 --> 00:54:12,853
Speaker 2: very few celebrity outcries and such.

1131
00:54:13,333 --> 00:54:16,333
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a very natural and somewhat depressing aspect of

1132
00:54:17,173 --> 00:54:19,733
Speaker 8: you know, modern attention spans and journalism and others. I mean,

1133
00:54:19,773 --> 00:54:21,933
Speaker 8: we tend to focus on particular things at particular times.

1134
00:54:21,973 --> 00:54:23,693
Speaker 8: It's a bit like the lighthouse effect. You know, you

1135
00:54:24,293 --> 00:54:25,772
Speaker 8: sort of look at it, and then you know, something

1136
00:54:25,773 --> 00:54:27,692
Speaker 8: will happen in around and obviously everyone will rush back

1137
00:54:27,693 --> 00:54:29,973
Speaker 8: and have a look at it again. But I think

1138
00:54:30,053 --> 00:54:31,773
Speaker 8: those who are keeping an eye on things know that

1139
00:54:31,893 --> 00:54:34,933
Speaker 8: the situation is not settled. But you're quite right that

1140
00:54:35,053 --> 00:54:36,853
Speaker 8: there is a problem. I think in the West that

1141
00:54:36,933 --> 00:54:39,133
Speaker 8: we get we bore very easily. You know, we get

1142
00:54:39,173 --> 00:54:41,453
Speaker 8: bored very easily. Our attention spans are much more limited.

1143
00:54:42,493 --> 00:54:46,333
Speaker 8: But there's also a lot of unfortunately these days, a

1144
00:54:46,453 --> 00:54:48,613
Speaker 8: sort of a social media that tends to want to

1145
00:54:48,733 --> 00:54:50,693
Speaker 8: sort of you know, from either side, that tends to

1146
00:54:50,733 --> 00:54:52,333
Speaker 8: want to effectively whitewash.

1147
00:54:51,973 --> 00:54:53,893
Speaker 4: What's gone on. So there are some people arguing that

1148
00:54:53,933 --> 00:54:54,693
Speaker 4: everything's fine.

1149
00:54:55,813 --> 00:54:58,613
Speaker 8: And I think then while I would hesitate to say that,

1150
00:54:59,053 --> 00:55:02,853
Speaker 8: you know, the foreign ministries around the world are not

1151
00:55:03,013 --> 00:55:05,093
Speaker 8: paying it, I mean they clearly are paying attention to it.

1152
00:55:05,493 --> 00:55:08,413
Speaker 8: I think there is certainly some element, some element, and

1153
00:55:08,733 --> 00:55:11,933
Speaker 8: people want you know, almost wanting it not to happen.

1154
00:55:12,013 --> 00:55:14,613
Speaker 8: You know, they would prefer it didn't have But now, interestingly,

1155
00:55:14,653 --> 00:55:17,373
Speaker 8: I don't think that's in the West. I think in

1156
00:55:17,533 --> 00:55:22,053
Speaker 8: Western ministries there's a sort of realization that something is happening,

1157
00:55:22,693 --> 00:55:25,692
Speaker 8: but at the moment that's all been transferred into sort

1158
00:55:25,733 --> 00:55:28,493
Speaker 8: of the regional governments who just don't want anything to happen,

1159
00:55:29,093 --> 00:55:30,773
Speaker 8: really desperately bearing their heads in the sand.

1160
00:55:30,853 --> 00:55:34,773
Speaker 4: But you know, there is this issue, and it's an unfortunate.

1161
00:55:34,373 --> 00:55:37,693
Speaker 8: Thing really, and it happens a lot where you know,

1162
00:55:37,813 --> 00:55:40,093
Speaker 8: we even when these protests happened on it.

1163
00:55:40,133 --> 00:55:41,813
Speaker 4: It was December the twenty eighth. Of course, in the

1164
00:55:41,813 --> 00:55:45,453
Speaker 4: middle of Christmas. People weren't particularly interested people on holiday.

1165
00:55:45,813 --> 00:55:47,573
Speaker 8: Suddenly, you know, in the first week of January, people

1166
00:55:47,613 --> 00:55:49,293
Speaker 8: pick up and say, maybe we should pay more attention

1167
00:55:49,373 --> 00:55:52,493
Speaker 8: to this. By the first week of January it becomes horrendous.

1168
00:55:52,493 --> 00:55:54,973
Speaker 8: People start to panic, and then of course it dies

1169
00:55:55,053 --> 00:55:56,453
Speaker 8: down again and you get this sort of sense of

1170
00:55:56,493 --> 00:55:58,773
Speaker 8: people breathing a sigh of relief. We can continue with

1171
00:55:58,893 --> 00:56:01,933
Speaker 8: lives of normal, as I say, and I think people

1172
00:56:01,933 --> 00:56:04,093
Speaker 8: are aware of that. You know, we can't do that

1173
00:56:04,213 --> 00:56:05,733
Speaker 8: really anymore. I mean, I think we have to be

1174
00:56:05,853 --> 00:56:07,693
Speaker 8: much much more aware that things are a good deal

1175
00:56:07,733 --> 00:56:10,853
Speaker 8: and were fragile, and you know, things could trigger any moment.

1176
00:56:10,893 --> 00:56:12,493
Speaker 4: Again. I mean, this is this is the issue with

1177
00:56:13,053 --> 00:56:14,853
Speaker 4: the word we get.

1178
00:56:14,773 --> 00:56:18,812
Speaker 8: From contacts in Iran, is that people are bruised, people

1179
00:56:18,853 --> 00:56:21,053
Speaker 8: are digesting, people are traumatized.

1180
00:56:21,293 --> 00:56:22,213
Speaker 4: But people are also.

1181
00:56:22,093 --> 00:56:26,093
Speaker 8: Angry and they're not you know that they're they're down,

1182
00:56:26,173 --> 00:56:28,413
Speaker 8: but they're not out. It is the way that it's

1183
00:56:28,453 --> 00:56:31,053
Speaker 8: coming across. So I think we need to be prepared

1184
00:56:31,733 --> 00:56:33,373
Speaker 8: a little bit better, if you next for.

1185
00:56:33,413 --> 00:56:36,413
Speaker 3: The next for the next round, Yes, professor and Sary.

1186
00:56:36,493 --> 00:56:40,013
Speaker 3: This has been a fascinating discussion. Really appreciate your insight

1187
00:56:40,093 --> 00:56:42,133
Speaker 3: and it's been great to chat with you, and hopefully

1188
00:56:42,133 --> 00:56:43,093
Speaker 3: we'll catch up again soon.

1189
00:56:43,293 --> 00:56:44,653
Speaker 4: Excellent, Yeah, happy to do so.

1190
00:56:45,093 --> 00:56:48,333
Speaker 3: There is, of course professor Ali and Sari, leading historian

1191
00:56:48,373 --> 00:56:51,373
Speaker 3: and modern Iran. Now I need to make an apology.

1192
00:56:52,053 --> 00:56:55,413
Speaker 3: I mistakenly earlier this hour, said doctor Frow Armand, who

1193
00:56:55,413 --> 00:56:57,253
Speaker 3: will be speaking to after three, was head of the

1194
00:56:57,413 --> 00:57:00,573
Speaker 3: Islamic Woman's Council. I meant, of course, the founder in

1195
00:57:00,733 --> 00:57:04,053
Speaker 3: head of the Iranian Woman's Counsel. So my deep deep

1196
00:57:04,093 --> 00:57:07,253
Speaker 3: apologies to doctor Arman. She's been incredibly gracious with her

1197
00:57:07,333 --> 00:57:10,493
Speaker 3: time and expertise. So I am I am deeply sorry.

1198
00:57:10,933 --> 00:57:12,533
Speaker 3: That's a big one to get wrong there, Tyler, there's

1199
00:57:12,533 --> 00:57:15,653
Speaker 3: a massive one to get wrong. So I reiterate again,

1200
00:57:15,853 --> 00:57:18,533
Speaker 3: doctor Armand, a huge respect to you for the time

1201
00:57:18,573 --> 00:57:20,453
Speaker 3: that you've given us. So I am sorry.

1202
00:57:20,693 --> 00:57:21,973
Speaker 2: So what's the name of the group.

1203
00:57:22,253 --> 00:57:25,933
Speaker 3: It is the Iranian Woman's Counsel, and they do wonderful

1204
00:57:25,973 --> 00:57:26,253
Speaker 3: work and.

1205
00:57:26,293 --> 00:57:28,053
Speaker 2: We will be talking to her very soon.

1206
00:57:28,053 --> 00:57:30,133
Speaker 3: Yep, after three o'clock. But we're going to open up

1207
00:57:30,133 --> 00:57:32,013
Speaker 3: the phone lines to you now. The question we've got

1208
00:57:32,093 --> 00:57:34,773
Speaker 3: for you is why do you think the horror happening

1209
00:57:34,933 --> 00:57:38,933
Speaker 3: in Iran hasn't grabbed the same global attention as other crises.

1210
00:57:39,453 --> 00:57:41,893
Speaker 2: It's interesting what he was saying about when a lot

1211
00:57:41,933 --> 00:57:45,253
Speaker 2: of the stuff was happening, and this sort of speaks

1212
00:57:45,293 --> 00:57:47,933
Speaker 2: to the vacuousness of our coverage. And there'll be a

1213
00:57:48,013 --> 00:57:50,013
Speaker 2: variety of reasons, but one thing he gives is a

1214
00:57:50,053 --> 00:57:51,853
Speaker 2: lot of it was happening over the Christmas break when

1215
00:57:51,853 --> 00:57:53,453
Speaker 2: everyone's on holiday in western countries.

1216
00:57:53,573 --> 00:57:54,973
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, attention span.

1217
00:57:55,413 --> 00:57:59,413
Speaker 2: That is a depressing situation, isn't it.

1218
00:57:59,533 --> 00:58:01,933
Speaker 3: Certainly has taken your call. Oh, eight hundred and eighty

1219
00:58:02,093 --> 00:58:05,333
Speaker 3: ten eighty, why do you think the situation in Iran

1220
00:58:05,413 --> 00:58:08,493
Speaker 3: hasn't grabbed the same global attention as other crises? To

1221
00:58:08,613 --> 00:58:10,973
Speaker 3: nine twos the dext headlines with railing coming.

1222
00:58:10,853 --> 00:58:15,613
Speaker 13: Up, you've talk said be headlines with your Ride, New

1223
00:58:15,693 --> 00:58:20,693
Speaker 13: Zealand's number one taxi app. Download your Ride today. Christchurches

1224
00:58:20,773 --> 00:58:23,893
Speaker 13: Bank's peninsula is under a state of emergency, with a

1225
00:58:23,933 --> 00:58:27,573
Speaker 13: heavy rain morning running until six pm. People across the

1226
00:58:27,653 --> 00:58:32,453
Speaker 13: peninsula should conserve water. Christchurch's Heathcote River has breached in

1227
00:58:32,533 --> 00:58:36,693
Speaker 13: Saint Martin's downpours have now reached Duneden with a heavy

1228
00:58:36,813 --> 00:58:40,493
Speaker 13: rain warning until seven tonight. It could be days until

1229
00:58:40,533 --> 00:58:43,533
Speaker 13: powers restored to some in the Central and Lower North Island,

1230
00:58:43,853 --> 00:58:48,373
Speaker 13: with manaw Tusamatangi one of the hardest hit areas. Two

1231
00:58:48,533 --> 00:58:52,533
Speaker 13: reviews have found issues with leadership, culture and priorities at

1232
00:58:52,573 --> 00:58:56,333
Speaker 13: the Teaching Council and not enough focus on protecting children.

1233
00:58:56,813 --> 00:58:59,973
Speaker 13: The council says it's developing a five point plan for improvement.

1234
00:59:01,133 --> 00:59:05,333
Speaker 13: The Health Minister says hospital investment is already a government priority,

1235
00:59:05,693 --> 00:59:09,373
Speaker 13: as the Infrastructure Commissions unveiled at thirty year roadmap for

1236
00:59:09,533 --> 00:59:12,853
Speaker 13: Central and local government over the next decade with health

1237
00:59:12,933 --> 00:59:18,493
Speaker 13: and early focus, eggs Putin and Commonwealth Ambition. The daily

1238
00:59:18,613 --> 00:59:22,093
Speaker 13: routine powering teen sensations, Sam Ruth, you can see the

1239
00:59:22,173 --> 00:59:24,853
Speaker 13: story at enzid Herald Premium. I'm back to Matte Eath

1240
00:59:24,893 --> 00:59:25,693
Speaker 13: and Tyler Adams.

1241
00:59:25,773 --> 00:59:28,613
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Rayllan. It is twenty six to three,

1242
00:59:28,693 --> 00:59:32,173
Speaker 3: so I are discussing the situation in Iran as we speak.

1243
00:59:32,173 --> 00:59:33,813
Speaker 3: But the question we've gone for you is why do

1244
00:59:33,933 --> 00:59:36,813
Speaker 3: you think the horror happening on the ground in Iran

1245
00:59:36,973 --> 00:59:40,293
Speaker 3: hasn't grabbed the same global attention as other crises. O

1246
00:59:40,373 --> 00:59:42,053
Speaker 3: eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is that number

1247
00:59:42,093 --> 00:59:42,373
Speaker 3: to call.

1248
00:59:43,213 --> 00:59:43,533
Speaker 2: Michael.

1249
00:59:43,573 --> 00:59:45,573
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show on the ground in Iran, it

1250
00:59:45,653 --> 00:59:47,293
Speaker 3: hasn't grabbed the same global.

1251
00:59:46,973 --> 00:59:53,613
Speaker 2: We might have to get you to fleck your Michael. Michael, Welcome, Michael.

1252
00:59:54,413 --> 00:59:56,653
Speaker 2: You have to hear you to flick off your what

1253
00:59:56,813 --> 00:59:58,693
Speaker 2: you're listening to us? Are you on iHeart Radio?

1254
01:00:00,213 --> 01:00:00,653
Speaker 16: Listen to you?

1255
01:00:00,893 --> 01:00:01,053
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1256
01:00:01,253 --> 01:00:02,893
Speaker 2: On iHeart Radio. We're a bit of a delay there,

1257
01:00:02,933 --> 01:00:05,733
Speaker 2: so we heard ourselves back when we came on. But

1258
01:00:05,973 --> 01:00:10,133
Speaker 2: welcome to show Michael with your thoughts on this.

1259
01:00:13,213 --> 01:00:18,453
Speaker 16: Tehran is I think fifteen thousand kilometers away from Ali.

1260
01:00:20,133 --> 01:00:21,653
Speaker 3: Mm hmm yep.

1261
01:00:22,013 --> 01:00:22,373
Speaker 5: We have.

1262
01:00:24,493 --> 01:00:32,293
Speaker 16: Iranian refugees, people that have come here a long long

1263
01:00:32,333 --> 01:00:36,653
Speaker 16: time ago. I know Iranian people that have been here

1264
01:00:36,733 --> 01:00:44,773
Speaker 16: for over seventy years. They were good friends with my grandparents, accorded.

1265
01:00:44,853 --> 01:00:47,853
Speaker 16: All that that I find here is this is that.

1266
01:00:49,493 --> 01:00:50,453
Speaker 5: New Zealand.

1267
01:00:51,813 --> 01:00:57,613
Speaker 16: And especially Maori, we don't. We have no reason to

1268
01:01:00,133 --> 01:01:05,173
Speaker 16: support iron on it's its cause or it's a reason

1269
01:01:05,333 --> 01:01:12,053
Speaker 16: to Islam, or cause it suffer. Islamic country is called

1270
01:01:12,173 --> 01:01:19,893
Speaker 16: money atholism. Money etholism is the belief of one God. Israel,

1271
01:01:20,093 --> 01:01:22,573
Speaker 16: they believe in one God. The Jews believe in one God.

1272
01:01:23,413 --> 01:01:29,373
Speaker 16: They should be their natural people that they should be

1273
01:01:29,573 --> 01:01:33,773
Speaker 16: looking to. But I can't see why New Zealand should

1274
01:01:33,813 --> 01:01:36,733
Speaker 16: be supporting their cause. I really can't.

1275
01:01:38,093 --> 01:01:40,853
Speaker 2: It's a second you don't so. But we're not talking

1276
01:01:40,853 --> 01:01:44,013
Speaker 2: about supporting their cause. We're talking about reporting on their cause.

1277
01:01:44,053 --> 01:01:46,893
Speaker 2: And maybe it's fifteen thousand kilometers away, but Washington is

1278
01:01:46,973 --> 01:01:51,813
Speaker 2: fourteen thousand kilometers away. And we talk about American events

1279
01:01:51,933 --> 01:01:55,293
Speaker 2: all the time. Cause we're not talking about supporting, we're

1280
01:01:55,293 --> 01:01:56,253
Speaker 2: talking about coverage.

1281
01:01:57,653 --> 01:02:00,573
Speaker 16: So coverage of it means that we've got to we've

1282
01:02:00,613 --> 01:02:04,973
Speaker 16: got to acknowledge it, acknowledging, we've got to actually take

1283
01:02:05,013 --> 01:02:07,973
Speaker 16: away from what we should be acknowledging, whether our own

1284
01:02:08,693 --> 01:02:13,613
Speaker 16: on country. Now you want us to acknowledge somebody else's country.

1285
01:02:13,733 --> 01:02:17,133
Speaker 2: Well, we're not asking you to do anything, Michael. We're

1286
01:02:17,213 --> 01:02:20,573
Speaker 2: asking the question. We're asking the question, why, when you

1287
01:02:20,653 --> 01:02:22,973
Speaker 2: compare to other things, do we spend so little tie

1288
01:02:23,053 --> 01:02:27,653
Speaker 2: on time on this major event? Because there's no doubt

1289
01:02:27,693 --> 01:02:29,733
Speaker 2: that we should be focusing more on local issues. We

1290
01:02:29,813 --> 01:02:32,573
Speaker 2: talk about this all the time, but we do spend

1291
01:02:32,613 --> 01:02:35,693
Speaker 2: a lot of times are focused on international issues, and

1292
01:02:36,053 --> 01:02:38,573
Speaker 2: this is a huge international issue that comparatively we're not

1293
01:02:38,613 --> 01:02:40,133
Speaker 2: spending as much time on. I would say.

1294
01:02:41,853 --> 01:02:45,293
Speaker 16: For good reason. There is a very good reason, well is.

1295
01:02:46,493 --> 01:02:50,093
Speaker 16: And the very good reason is that if you are

1296
01:02:50,213 --> 01:02:53,853
Speaker 16: not relative to it, why should we acknowledge it? What

1297
01:02:54,013 --> 01:02:55,973
Speaker 16: do you have in common with anything in Iran?

1298
01:02:57,253 --> 01:02:57,533
Speaker 3: Human?

1299
01:02:57,573 --> 01:03:01,013
Speaker 2: If we're all humans and terrible things are happening to humans?

1300
01:03:02,053 --> 01:03:05,413
Speaker 16: Okay, so you have a lot in common with Palestine,

1301
01:03:05,453 --> 01:03:08,293
Speaker 16: you have a lot in common with every other person,

1302
01:03:08,413 --> 01:03:11,573
Speaker 16: and that's being oppressed and something's going around them.

1303
01:03:13,573 --> 01:03:15,293
Speaker 2: Well, we do, That's what we're saying. That's the whole

1304
01:03:15,333 --> 01:03:17,413
Speaker 2: point that that has been that has been well covered,

1305
01:03:17,653 --> 01:03:19,373
Speaker 2: that has been absolutely well covered.

1306
01:03:20,613 --> 01:03:22,693
Speaker 16: It doesn't seem like you acknowledge anybody.

1307
01:03:24,213 --> 01:03:27,973
Speaker 2: I'm so confused by you, call Michael, where the media

1308
01:03:28,013 --> 01:03:30,533
Speaker 2: we're talking about generally coverage, all that talks about is

1309
01:03:30,573 --> 01:03:32,813
Speaker 2: people and different people doing different things around the world.

1310
01:03:33,253 --> 01:03:39,093
Speaker 2: All media, all media, all media talks about what people

1311
01:03:39,173 --> 01:03:41,173
Speaker 2: are up to. It spends very little time talking about

1312
01:03:41,173 --> 01:03:43,733
Speaker 2: anything other other than what people are up to in

1313
01:03:43,813 --> 01:03:46,773
Speaker 2: different places in the world. So the question is.

1314
01:03:48,373 --> 01:03:53,133
Speaker 16: Run place is what is a specific place?

1315
01:03:53,333 --> 01:03:53,533
Speaker 12: Yes?

1316
01:03:53,893 --> 01:03:56,213
Speaker 2: Yes, and Iran.

1317
01:03:57,973 --> 01:04:00,493
Speaker 16: You call them Islamic, Well some of.

1318
01:04:00,533 --> 01:04:06,293
Speaker 2: Them so, some of there's an Islamic regime. Yes, so

1319
01:04:06,533 --> 01:04:12,533
Speaker 2: some of them are well yeah, so what the lord,

1320
01:04:14,693 --> 01:04:17,013
Speaker 2: We don't know exactly what the percentage is, but currently

1321
01:04:17,053 --> 01:04:20,333
Speaker 2: they're under Islamic rule. So you know, you understand what

1322
01:04:20,413 --> 01:04:22,053
Speaker 2: happened with you do you know the example?

1323
01:04:22,653 --> 01:04:24,253
Speaker 16: What did you mean?

1324
01:04:24,693 --> 01:04:29,693
Speaker 2: Well, it means that they have a state that has

1325
01:04:29,773 --> 01:04:34,333
Speaker 2: run under the the the Islamic resolution. We had gave

1326
01:04:34,373 --> 01:04:36,773
Speaker 2: the history of it before in ninety seventy nine, so

1327
01:04:37,013 --> 01:04:39,773
Speaker 2: it took over. So then the government is now run.

1328
01:04:40,053 --> 01:04:40,893
Speaker 2: It's a theocracy.

1329
01:04:41,773 --> 01:04:41,933
Speaker 9: Right.

1330
01:04:42,093 --> 01:04:46,973
Speaker 2: So it's so whether you're whether you're a follower of

1331
01:04:47,093 --> 01:04:49,413
Speaker 2: Islam or not, if you live in that country, you

1332
01:04:49,613 --> 01:04:51,693
Speaker 2: are under the rule of a theocracy. Right.

1333
01:04:54,253 --> 01:04:57,053
Speaker 16: That's sorry, you told me you said it's an Islama

1334
01:04:57,853 --> 01:04:58,573
Speaker 16: run regime.

1335
01:04:59,253 --> 01:05:00,413
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.

1336
01:05:02,173 --> 01:05:02,413
Speaker 4: It is.

1337
01:05:02,573 --> 01:05:05,733
Speaker 2: That's what a theocracy is. It just happened. Well in

1338
01:05:05,773 --> 01:05:07,493
Speaker 2: a theocracy doesn't have to be Islamic, but it can

1339
01:05:07,573 --> 01:05:13,253
Speaker 2: a theocracy. That all right, mate, Thank you so much

1340
01:05:13,293 --> 01:05:13,653
Speaker 2: for your call.

1341
01:05:13,733 --> 01:05:16,733
Speaker 3: But it's very confusing, very confusing what you're trying to

1342
01:05:16,773 --> 01:05:17,693
Speaker 3: get at, Michael.

1343
01:05:17,653 --> 01:05:20,093
Speaker 2: But we appreciate your call. WA one hundred and eighty

1344
01:05:20,133 --> 01:05:20,933
Speaker 2: ten eighty is the number.

1345
01:05:21,093 --> 01:05:23,453
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much, Michael. Good luck to you

1346
01:05:23,493 --> 01:05:26,773
Speaker 3: out there, man beckon the moment, it's twenty to three,

1347
01:05:27,773 --> 01:05:28,693
Speaker 3: the issues.

1348
01:05:28,413 --> 01:05:31,333
Speaker 5: That affect you and a bit of fun along the way, Matt.

1349
01:05:32,053 --> 01:05:33,613
Speaker 5: Afternoons with Skoda.

1350
01:05:33,853 --> 01:05:36,573
Speaker 1: Please go to codes every day at skoter dot co

1351
01:05:36,733 --> 01:05:38,613
Speaker 1: dot NZ news Talk sa'd be.

1352
01:05:39,053 --> 01:05:40,213
Speaker 3: Seventeen to three.

1353
01:05:40,693 --> 01:05:43,813
Speaker 2: Expats. Iranians are afraid to demonstrate because a family left

1354
01:05:43,853 --> 01:05:46,333
Speaker 2: and round would be rounded up. Our news hardly reports

1355
01:05:46,373 --> 01:05:49,973
Speaker 2: it because I care ordering problems a lot of the

1356
01:05:50,333 --> 01:05:55,653
Speaker 2: There was a four thousand person protest on Saturday, yes

1357
01:05:57,053 --> 01:05:59,413
Speaker 2: to try and raise awareness for the plight of the

1358
01:05:59,493 --> 01:06:03,253
Speaker 2: Iranian people. Yep, so that's that's a significant number that

1359
01:06:03,333 --> 01:06:04,213
Speaker 2: did come out in the weekend.

1360
01:06:04,333 --> 01:06:04,973
Speaker 3: Great turnout.

1361
01:06:05,013 --> 01:06:06,613
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think there was there was big numbers

1362
01:06:06,613 --> 01:06:07,333
Speaker 2: in Sydney as well.

1363
01:06:07,493 --> 01:06:10,373
Speaker 3: Absolutely taking your calls on our one hundred and eighteen

1364
01:06:10,453 --> 01:06:11,853
Speaker 3: eighty Riza, good afternoon to.

1365
01:06:11,853 --> 01:06:14,453
Speaker 12: You, good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me.

1366
01:06:14,853 --> 01:06:16,573
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for giving us a buzz. We're really keen

1367
01:06:16,613 --> 01:06:17,213
Speaker 3: on your thoughts.

1368
01:06:18,293 --> 01:06:21,813
Speaker 12: Yeah, so I agree with you. Humanity is not selective

1369
01:06:21,933 --> 01:06:25,453
Speaker 12: and doesn't matter whether it's Palistan Israel or Iran. What

1370
01:06:25,653 --> 01:06:29,293
Speaker 12: happened was more than fifty thousand people have been killed

1371
01:06:29,773 --> 01:06:34,773
Speaker 12: by Islamic regime. Irani is not Islamic country. But we

1372
01:06:34,853 --> 01:06:39,733
Speaker 12: are looking for a secular democratic system. That means if

1373
01:06:39,853 --> 01:06:44,173
Speaker 12: you are Muslim, it's fine, but you can't disbay the law.

1374
01:06:45,013 --> 01:06:47,973
Speaker 12: And I would like to answer your previous question. You said,

1375
01:06:48,293 --> 01:06:53,533
Speaker 12: what happened if this regime falls? You know what name

1376
01:06:53,653 --> 01:06:56,773
Speaker 12: Iranian people are chanting on the Iranian streets.

1377
01:06:58,013 --> 01:07:01,093
Speaker 2: I have heard it is that the crown prince the shahs.

1378
01:07:01,853 --> 01:07:04,053
Speaker 2: Is it the Shah's son or is it the Shah's grandson?

1379
01:07:04,173 --> 01:07:11,213
Speaker 12: Yes, fantastic prince Riza Pahlevi. So he's an exiet and

1380
01:07:11,453 --> 01:07:15,333
Speaker 12: he is leading the transition and he's not looking for

1381
01:07:15,893 --> 01:07:19,693
Speaker 12: to be a shah or to be a monarchy. All

1382
01:07:19,853 --> 01:07:23,093
Speaker 12: he wants to do is just be you know, filic

1383
01:07:23,173 --> 01:07:26,733
Speaker 12: gamp and also transition to a secular democratic system.

1384
01:07:28,093 --> 01:07:30,093
Speaker 2: Now I find that listening. Could you explain this to

1385
01:07:30,213 --> 01:07:35,253
Speaker 2: me result because the Shah, you know, before the exam revolution,

1386
01:07:35,453 --> 01:07:42,333
Speaker 2: before he upstepped and left, there was some question marks

1387
01:07:42,373 --> 01:07:45,573
Speaker 2: around him. I mean that wasn't democratic, and you know

1388
01:07:45,733 --> 01:07:47,933
Speaker 2: there were there were questions around his secret police and

1389
01:07:48,653 --> 01:07:52,773
Speaker 2: and the way he was enforcing things. So is this

1390
01:07:53,453 --> 01:07:56,973
Speaker 2: is that connection to the Shah a positive thing for you?

1391
01:07:58,253 --> 01:08:02,213
Speaker 12: Look, we're talking about past and fifty years ago, but

1392
01:08:02,293 --> 01:08:06,093
Speaker 12: the Iranian people are fighting for future. Yes, there were

1393
01:08:06,173 --> 01:08:09,053
Speaker 12: some mistakes in the past, and you're right, but that

1394
01:08:09,253 --> 01:08:14,053
Speaker 12: doesn't mean so we don't repeat the past. The appearances

1395
01:08:14,053 --> 01:08:18,973
Speaker 12: of acknowledged and he said we're gonna you know, we're

1396
01:08:19,013 --> 01:08:24,253
Speaker 12: going to seek people's opinions and and all become those mistakes.

1397
01:08:25,492 --> 01:08:30,013
Speaker 2: M So does he have legitimacy with the people that are,

1398
01:08:30,532 --> 01:08:34,893
Speaker 2: you know, rising up against the regime. Where does his

1399
01:08:35,253 --> 01:08:39,173
Speaker 2: legitimacy come from? And and you know how what what

1400
01:08:39,372 --> 01:08:43,012
Speaker 2: is he saying? If you could explain why he's getting

1401
01:08:43,013 --> 01:08:44,212
Speaker 2: the support, they'll be fantastic.

1402
01:08:45,053 --> 01:08:48,213
Speaker 12: Yeah, no worries. Look, I can't say he has he

1403
01:08:48,333 --> 01:08:51,892
Speaker 12: has got one hundred percent of people's you know, backup.

1404
01:08:52,213 --> 01:08:58,492
Speaker 12: But I can say he has the most popularity. And

1405
01:08:58,772 --> 01:09:01,652
Speaker 12: there is no other name that you can hear from

1406
01:09:01,853 --> 01:09:04,173
Speaker 12: Urine in the streets. You can only hear one name.

1407
01:09:04,812 --> 01:09:07,093
Speaker 12: Because we've done a lot of fail and trial in

1408
01:09:07,173 --> 01:09:11,213
Speaker 12: the past forty seven years. Now there is only one

1409
01:09:11,333 --> 01:09:16,252
Speaker 12: potential solution. And what matters to new visions. Look, because

1410
01:09:16,412 --> 01:09:22,572
Speaker 12: Australia designated id AT the terrorist empty and if New

1411
01:09:22,652 --> 01:09:27,732
Speaker 12: Zealand don't take any action, guess what happens. Those terrorists

1412
01:09:28,173 --> 01:09:32,293
Speaker 12: will move their networks resources to New Zealand and it

1413
01:09:32,572 --> 01:09:37,572
Speaker 12: is a huge risk to public safety. So it matters

1414
01:09:37,572 --> 01:09:38,972
Speaker 12: for Nina to take some action.

1415
01:09:39,812 --> 01:09:43,412
Speaker 3: That's nicely said. Result. So going back to the Shah

1416
01:09:43,612 --> 01:09:48,893
Speaker 3: the Prince, what is the likelihood of that eventuating that

1417
01:09:49,093 --> 01:09:52,253
Speaker 3: the uprising gets to a point where the regime collapses

1418
01:09:52,732 --> 01:09:55,733
Speaker 3: and he can step in and draft up the democracy

1419
01:09:55,812 --> 01:09:56,412
Speaker 3: that he's calling for.

1420
01:09:59,213 --> 01:10:03,572
Speaker 12: So obviously we need you know, international acknowledgment. That's saying, hey,

1421
01:10:04,372 --> 01:10:08,973
Speaker 12: he has the he leaves the transition you want to

1422
01:10:09,093 --> 01:10:13,452
Speaker 12: govern and there is not because people need to elect

1423
01:10:13,572 --> 01:10:16,772
Speaker 12: from the either they want republic or they want to

1424
01:10:17,013 --> 01:10:22,532
Speaker 12: believe monarchy, same as he's inn same as Switzerland. So

1425
01:10:23,213 --> 01:10:26,852
Speaker 12: to reach data state, we need media coverage, we need

1426
01:10:26,933 --> 01:10:31,212
Speaker 12: to educate people, and we need to say that Uranian

1427
01:10:31,293 --> 01:10:33,253
Speaker 12: people will make your own great again.

1428
01:10:34,732 --> 01:10:40,093
Speaker 2: So if if if the you know, the Prince comes back,

1429
01:10:41,412 --> 01:10:44,572
Speaker 2: he won't be ruling as a it won't be a

1430
01:10:44,893 --> 01:10:47,932
Speaker 2: monarchy situation. Is that what you're saying he's not suggesting

1431
01:10:47,973 --> 01:10:49,572
Speaker 2: that he comes in because what is it the Palave

1432
01:10:50,173 --> 01:10:54,372
Speaker 2: destiny of I said that right the so he's he

1433
01:10:54,412 --> 01:10:57,572
Speaker 2: would come back and there would be democratic elections. It

1434
01:10:57,652 --> 01:10:59,412
Speaker 2: wouldn't be a monarchy.

1435
01:11:00,692 --> 01:11:03,732
Speaker 12: That's absolutely trying. What I would suggest is why not

1436
01:11:03,853 --> 01:11:05,372
Speaker 12: you are not interviewing him directly?

1437
01:11:06,612 --> 01:11:07,732
Speaker 2: Mm hmm we could?

1438
01:11:07,973 --> 01:11:09,572
Speaker 3: Yeah, would you be often?

1439
01:11:09,812 --> 01:11:11,532
Speaker 12: We can facilitate that interview for you.

1440
01:11:12,013 --> 01:11:14,852
Speaker 3: Okay, absolutely, we'll be very very interested in that.

1441
01:11:15,253 --> 01:11:16,013
Speaker 5: It's not you, is it.

1442
01:11:16,093 --> 01:11:22,532
Speaker 12: That's fantastic. And one last thing tomorrow so you have it. Yeah,

1443
01:11:22,572 --> 01:11:24,532
Speaker 12: tomorrow you have a gathering in front of tv ands,

1444
01:11:25,372 --> 01:11:27,652
Speaker 12: just you know, so that we need some head, some

1445
01:11:27,853 --> 01:11:30,612
Speaker 12: TV ands that to be our voice to protect New

1446
01:11:30,692 --> 01:11:33,012
Speaker 12: Zealand from the IODC terrorists.

1447
01:11:34,173 --> 01:11:36,213
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much for we call Reza. I mean,

1448
01:11:36,213 --> 01:11:39,692
Speaker 2: it's an incredibly complicated issue and it's great getting people

1449
01:11:39,772 --> 01:11:43,652
Speaker 2: that are involved firsthand with with what what's what's happening?

1450
01:11:44,452 --> 01:11:46,973
Speaker 2: So our question is is there enough media coverage of

1451
01:11:47,853 --> 01:11:50,652
Speaker 2: the situation in Iran? And if not? Why?

1452
01:11:50,933 --> 01:11:52,812
Speaker 3: Yeah? And if you are Iranian, love to hear from you.

1453
01:11:52,893 --> 01:11:54,732
Speaker 3: Oh eight one hundred and eighty eighteen eighty is that

1454
01:11:54,893 --> 01:11:58,812
Speaker 3: number to call? It is eleven minutes to three, the.

1455
01:11:58,893 --> 01:12:01,412
Speaker 1: Issues that affect you and a bit of fun along

1456
01:12:01,492 --> 01:12:05,092
Speaker 1: the way. Matt Heath and Tyler Adams afternoons news talks.

1457
01:12:05,133 --> 01:12:07,652
Speaker 3: There be news talks there B eight to three.

1458
01:12:08,333 --> 01:12:10,812
Speaker 5: Are you ready to crack the Skoda code?

1459
01:12:11,372 --> 01:12:13,253
Speaker 3: Yes, here we go. Do you need a better help

1460
01:12:13,333 --> 01:12:16,572
Speaker 3: cranking today's Skoda code? We are here to help with

1461
01:12:16,652 --> 01:12:17,092
Speaker 3: the clue.

1462
01:12:18,013 --> 01:12:22,212
Speaker 2: Birds do it naturally, but humans do it with boarding passes.

1463
01:12:22,293 --> 01:12:25,492
Speaker 2: That clue again, birds do it naturally, but humans do

1464
01:12:25,612 --> 01:12:27,373
Speaker 2: it with boarding passes.

1465
01:12:27,572 --> 01:12:29,772
Speaker 3: I wonder what that could be. Make sure you are

1466
01:12:29,893 --> 01:12:32,133
Speaker 3: in to win a trip for two to the Tour

1467
01:12:32,333 --> 01:12:36,293
Speaker 3: de France at Skoda dot co dot Nz. That Skoda

1468
01:12:36,372 --> 01:12:38,852
Speaker 3: dot co dot Nz. Make sure you get into that

1469
01:12:38,973 --> 01:12:43,292
Speaker 3: draw because that's a fantastic prize. Right back to our discussion,

1470
01:12:43,293 --> 01:12:46,012
Speaker 3: we've been having a bount Iran. Why do you think

1471
01:12:46,333 --> 01:12:49,212
Speaker 3: it is not getting the coverage or attention of other crises?

1472
01:12:49,612 --> 01:12:51,492
Speaker 2: Hey, Tyler and Matt. Some of the lack of coverage

1473
01:12:51,532 --> 01:12:54,013
Speaker 2: is possibly due to Iran having no affiliation with any

1474
01:12:54,053 --> 01:12:57,692
Speaker 2: Western country. Hints journalists would have limited access unlike Israel

1475
01:12:57,893 --> 01:13:01,293
Speaker 2: and the Ukraine. That's from Christina. Yeah, and I think

1476
01:13:01,372 --> 01:13:03,773
Speaker 2: that a certain amount of it is the Internet blackouts,

1477
01:13:04,572 --> 01:13:07,333
Speaker 2: because you know, Iran is such as such an oppressive

1478
01:13:07,333 --> 01:13:09,692
Speaker 2: regime that they just shut down the Internet, so there's

1479
01:13:09,732 --> 01:13:13,812
Speaker 2: not the images coming out. So in other conflicts there's

1480
01:13:14,013 --> 01:13:16,013
Speaker 2: people pumping out a lot of footage and a lot

1481
01:13:16,053 --> 01:13:20,532
Speaker 2: of and a lot of stuff to feed the media buyers, right.

1482
01:13:20,452 --> 01:13:21,973
Speaker 3: Yep, that would play into it. If you don't have

1483
01:13:22,093 --> 01:13:25,852
Speaker 3: information and video and audio, then it can be difficult media.

1484
01:13:26,013 --> 01:13:27,652
Speaker 3: Some media would look at that and say it's too hard.

1485
01:13:27,812 --> 01:13:31,772
Speaker 2: So both sides of this are under a heavy media

1486
01:13:31,933 --> 01:13:34,732
Speaker 2: and internet blackout, so there's just not a lot coming

1487
01:13:34,933 --> 01:13:35,892
Speaker 2: coming out of there.

1488
01:13:36,053 --> 01:13:37,012
Speaker 3: Yeah, which.

1489
01:13:39,053 --> 01:13:41,532
Speaker 2: Speaks to the sort of the semi vacuous nature of things,

1490
01:13:41,572 --> 01:13:44,492
Speaker 2: specially social media. So if it's not in people's face,

1491
01:13:45,053 --> 01:13:45,492
Speaker 2: they move on.

1492
01:13:45,692 --> 01:13:48,093
Speaker 3: Yep. Exactly undred and eighty ten eighty is and number

1493
01:13:48,093 --> 01:13:49,012
Speaker 3: to call get a ken.

1494
01:13:51,213 --> 01:13:51,452
Speaker 4: Mate.

1495
01:13:52,612 --> 01:13:56,852
Speaker 17: I was in the US Army and we to deploy

1496
01:13:56,893 --> 01:14:00,732
Speaker 17: you on this as apployment, and we got a briefing

1497
01:14:00,853 --> 01:14:04,372
Speaker 17: from a third party's military intelligence not to you ease

1498
01:14:06,692 --> 01:14:10,812
Speaker 17: may points there are famous in where we were going

1499
01:14:10,893 --> 01:14:14,812
Speaker 17: to had actually been the first side attacking their own

1500
01:14:14,933 --> 01:14:18,492
Speaker 17: people and the other side got the blame for it,

1501
01:14:19,173 --> 01:14:22,333
Speaker 17: and they explained how this was able to happen, and

1502
01:14:22,853 --> 01:14:26,333
Speaker 17: even though they knew that wasn't what happened, they weren't

1503
01:14:26,372 --> 01:14:30,612
Speaker 17: able to fight in the media because the first site

1504
01:14:30,692 --> 01:14:34,932
Speaker 17: had a really good media outlet and they had already

1505
01:14:35,013 --> 01:14:38,893
Speaker 17: released the information and kept repeating it. In line with

1506
01:14:39,013 --> 01:14:43,973
Speaker 17: ever Burneid's thing in the book propaganda, that you keep

1507
01:14:44,053 --> 01:14:46,372
Speaker 17: repeating the lie on enough people and you just keep

1508
01:14:46,532 --> 01:14:49,892
Speaker 17: seeing it, but that will get the attention of the media.

1509
01:14:50,093 --> 01:14:54,572
Speaker 17: Whereas the two current lots and run as you say,

1510
01:14:54,652 --> 01:14:57,892
Speaker 17: there's the blackout, but they obviously don't have good media

1511
01:14:59,333 --> 01:15:04,053
Speaker 17: outlets to keep repeating near sights. And I know from

1512
01:15:04,093 --> 01:15:07,412
Speaker 17: my military training I watched the news and some of

1513
01:15:07,452 --> 01:15:09,652
Speaker 17: the stuff I see on there, I know it's all lies.

1514
01:15:10,053 --> 01:15:13,372
Speaker 17: And yet we've got people getting upset about it because

1515
01:15:14,213 --> 01:15:17,333
Speaker 17: that's the law we keep getting presented. The media can

1516
01:15:17,412 --> 01:15:20,372
Speaker 17: only present what is the information they give it.

1517
01:15:20,612 --> 01:15:24,013
Speaker 2: And also, I mean, in the case of Iran, it's

1518
01:15:24,053 --> 01:15:25,892
Speaker 2: pretty hard for a journalist to be on the ground.

1519
01:15:25,973 --> 01:15:30,692
Speaker 2: There be very very, very very dangerous. There'd be no

1520
01:15:30,812 --> 01:15:32,612
Speaker 2: protecting you. If you're on the ground in Iran, you

1521
01:15:32,652 --> 01:15:33,852
Speaker 2: would just be immediately arrested.

1522
01:15:35,093 --> 01:15:35,532
Speaker 17: That's right.

1523
01:15:36,372 --> 01:15:38,892
Speaker 12: But there it's crazy.

1524
01:15:39,372 --> 01:15:44,333
Speaker 17: The more anyone that's will tell you about the things

1525
01:15:44,412 --> 01:15:45,972
Speaker 17: they see, and then what we see in the media,

1526
01:15:45,973 --> 01:15:48,652
Speaker 17: it's like, hey, that's not what happens. If they've got

1527
01:15:48,732 --> 01:15:51,172
Speaker 17: a good out there and they are presenting that information

1528
01:15:51,333 --> 01:15:53,812
Speaker 17: and keep presenting it, that's all the media has got

1529
01:15:53,853 --> 01:15:54,333
Speaker 17: to the couple.

1530
01:15:55,053 --> 01:15:55,892
Speaker 2: Thanks for you, col King.

1531
01:15:55,933 --> 01:15:57,812
Speaker 3: It's a good point, no doubt. There is challenges and

1532
01:15:57,853 --> 01:16:00,933
Speaker 3: getting information out of Iran, but there's always challenges and

1533
01:16:00,973 --> 01:16:03,973
Speaker 3: getting information out and it's not a war zone, but

1534
01:16:04,053 --> 01:16:06,692
Speaker 3: it is a zone that has been shut down by

1535
01:16:06,692 --> 01:16:07,612
Speaker 3: an oppressive regime.

1536
01:16:07,812 --> 01:16:09,692
Speaker 2: Yeah, and clicks is a thing. If you know of

1537
01:16:09,772 --> 01:16:12,133
Speaker 2: some stories and people don't read them, then you don't

1538
01:16:12,173 --> 01:16:14,253
Speaker 2: do any more stories. So a lack of good pictures

1539
01:16:14,572 --> 01:16:17,732
Speaker 2: is why you don't get clicks. Yep, the media the

1540
01:16:17,812 --> 01:16:20,972
Speaker 2: Internet blackout in that situation as well. And then yeah,

1541
01:16:22,213 --> 01:16:24,812
Speaker 2: and there's various other things as well involved that we'll

1542
01:16:24,812 --> 01:16:25,652
Speaker 2: talk about in a minute.

1543
01:16:25,732 --> 01:16:27,852
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we are taking your calls of eight hundred and

1544
01:16:27,853 --> 01:16:30,333
Speaker 3: eighty ten eighty. But coming up after three o'clock we

1545
01:16:30,452 --> 01:16:33,412
Speaker 3: will speak to doctor Farroux and she is the founder

1546
01:16:33,532 --> 01:16:36,333
Speaker 3: of the Iranian Woman in New Zealand, a charitable trust

1547
01:16:36,412 --> 01:16:39,933
Speaker 3: dedicated to empowering Farsi speaking woman. She is incredible and

1548
01:16:39,973 --> 01:16:42,612
Speaker 3: has got great analysis on what is happening on the

1549
01:16:42,652 --> 01:16:45,812
Speaker 3: ground in Iran. She is coming next. It is three

1550
01:16:45,893 --> 01:16:46,412
Speaker 3: minutes to three.

1551
01:16:46,893 --> 01:16:50,932
Speaker 1: Good Well, your home for insightful and entertaining talk. It's

1552
01:16:51,053 --> 01:16:55,052
Speaker 1: Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons with Skoda on News Talks.

1553
01:16:55,053 --> 01:16:57,532
Speaker 3: There'd be for a good afternoon. She welcome back into

1554
01:16:57,572 --> 01:17:00,372
Speaker 3: the program. We have been discussing the situation in Iran.

1555
01:17:00,532 --> 01:17:03,452
Speaker 3: Uprisings and protests against the regime has led to another

1556
01:17:03,652 --> 01:17:07,973
Speaker 3: violent crackdown. Some estimates say thirty six thousand Iranians have

1557
01:17:08,173 --> 01:17:11,612
Speaker 3: been killed. Joining us now is doctor Fara Armen, founder

1558
01:17:11,732 --> 01:17:15,093
Speaker 3: of the Iranians Women's Council and a leading advocate for

1559
01:17:15,133 --> 01:17:20,732
Speaker 3: women's rights around Doctor Amen. Good afternoon, goodfinal, first up.

1560
01:17:20,772 --> 01:17:22,932
Speaker 3: Can you give us a quick overview on the events

1561
01:17:22,973 --> 01:17:25,812
Speaker 3: which has led to the current protests happening right now?

1562
01:17:27,013 --> 01:17:27,173
Speaker 14: Oh?

1563
01:17:27,372 --> 01:17:27,612
Speaker 5: Sure?

1564
01:17:27,812 --> 01:17:27,852
Speaker 14: So?

1565
01:17:28,213 --> 01:17:31,213
Speaker 9: You know, as in many ways what happened in Iran

1566
01:17:31,692 --> 01:17:36,372
Speaker 9: in early January was entirely protictable for decades. You know

1567
01:17:36,812 --> 01:17:41,572
Speaker 9: the country has been trapped in deep corruption, systemicnessmanagement and

1568
01:17:41,692 --> 01:17:46,093
Speaker 9: concentration of power, you know, in hands of unaccountable institutions,

1569
01:17:46,532 --> 01:17:50,053
Speaker 9: and the situation has become worsterned and worstern So the

1570
01:17:50,213 --> 01:17:54,692
Speaker 9: rampant inflation, as you said, currently collapsed unemployment. It has

1571
01:17:54,812 --> 01:17:58,892
Speaker 9: pushed around seventy percent of the people below the Paverty line.

1572
01:17:59,293 --> 01:18:02,492
Speaker 9: So it was in late twenty twenty five, late December

1573
01:18:02,572 --> 01:18:06,253
Speaker 9: an early jet that merchants from Bazzar of Tehran they

1574
01:18:06,372 --> 01:18:09,572
Speaker 9: decided to close their shops and to the street to protest,

1575
01:18:10,133 --> 01:18:13,173
Speaker 9: and then people joined them. And after that we had

1576
01:18:13,253 --> 01:18:15,893
Speaker 9: the Crown Prince of Iran, Razza Palladi, who was the

1577
01:18:16,053 --> 01:18:18,852
Speaker 9: son of the late Shah of Iran. They gave a

1578
01:18:18,933 --> 01:18:21,933
Speaker 9: call to people for eight and ninth January to go

1579
01:18:22,093 --> 01:18:25,813
Speaker 9: to the street and to support the merchants. People responded,

1580
01:18:25,933 --> 01:18:29,572
Speaker 9: So it was unprecedented in a sense that millions of

1581
01:18:29,692 --> 01:18:32,253
Speaker 9: people went to the street from the smallest town to

1582
01:18:32,452 --> 01:18:35,732
Speaker 9: largest city. They were chanting his name and they were

1583
01:18:35,853 --> 01:18:38,772
Speaker 9: calling for his return to the country. And this was

1584
01:18:38,853 --> 01:18:41,372
Speaker 9: the biggest night method the regame. We know that in

1585
01:18:41,492 --> 01:18:44,173
Speaker 9: the eyes of this regime, the Crown Prince is the

1586
01:18:44,293 --> 01:18:48,172
Speaker 9: biggest thread, and that's why they decided to do whatever

1587
01:18:48,293 --> 01:18:50,973
Speaker 9: they could to crush the protest. They even brought the

1588
01:18:51,173 --> 01:18:55,053
Speaker 9: militia from rat to help them, and they just gave

1589
01:18:55,093 --> 01:18:58,052
Speaker 9: the order to their security forces to go and kill

1590
01:18:58,253 --> 01:19:00,532
Speaker 9: every protester one by one.

1591
01:19:02,053 --> 01:19:05,173
Speaker 2: Paint the picture of what everyday life is like for

1592
01:19:05,612 --> 01:19:08,852
Speaker 2: everyday Iranians under the rain game and most perfectly what

1593
01:19:08,933 --> 01:19:11,173
Speaker 2: the situation is for woman and Iran.

1594
01:19:12,612 --> 01:19:13,652
Speaker 12: Yeah, so you know, the.

1595
01:19:13,772 --> 01:19:17,732
Speaker 9: Life in Iran living under a theocracy that controls every

1596
01:19:17,893 --> 01:19:21,333
Speaker 9: aspect of life, you know, from your you know, personal life,

1597
01:19:21,452 --> 01:19:24,053
Speaker 9: what you were, what you listen to do, what you do,

1598
01:19:24,293 --> 01:19:26,652
Speaker 9: you know, not just in the street, but even in

1599
01:19:26,772 --> 01:19:30,213
Speaker 9: your own you know, personal life. So it's always been

1600
01:19:30,772 --> 01:19:33,372
Speaker 9: very hard for people, and people have been trying, you know,

1601
01:19:33,973 --> 01:19:37,772
Speaker 9: just to resist against it. But currently I would like

1602
01:19:37,853 --> 01:19:40,612
Speaker 9: to talk about how the life is right now after

1603
01:19:40,772 --> 01:19:44,372
Speaker 9: this massacre that the regime carried out against its own people.

1604
01:19:44,812 --> 01:19:48,213
Speaker 9: So recently, I was just seeing a post and X

1605
01:19:48,412 --> 01:19:51,253
Speaker 9: they're one of the Iranians in diaspora or asking people

1606
01:19:51,333 --> 01:19:55,093
Speaker 9: inside the one to describe how life feels right now,

1607
01:19:55,732 --> 01:19:58,652
Speaker 9: and I could see hundreds of responses and all of

1608
01:19:58,772 --> 01:20:01,772
Speaker 9: them had something, you know, similar, So they were saying

1609
01:20:01,853 --> 01:20:07,412
Speaker 9: that everyday life continues on the surface but emotionally is heavy,

1610
01:20:07,532 --> 01:20:10,333
Speaker 9: it is deeply. They were saying, we go to work,

1611
01:20:10,452 --> 01:20:13,452
Speaker 9: we take our children to school. You know, life hasn't

1612
01:20:13,452 --> 01:20:16,213
Speaker 9: to stop, but it has changed. So you cannot find

1613
01:20:16,452 --> 01:20:19,412
Speaker 9: anyone who doesn't know someone who has been killed, or

1614
01:20:19,492 --> 01:20:23,692
Speaker 9: has been arrested or injured. They were saying, if we laugh,

1615
01:20:23,853 --> 01:20:27,612
Speaker 9: we feel guilty. If we hear music, it turns into tears, so,

1616
01:20:28,572 --> 01:20:31,333
Speaker 9: you know, and what we hear from our family and

1617
01:20:31,532 --> 01:20:34,093
Speaker 9: friends directly is just the same thing to us. So

1618
01:20:34,213 --> 01:20:37,013
Speaker 9: people are in short and it's not just because of

1619
01:20:37,133 --> 01:20:40,532
Speaker 9: the scale of violence, but the sense of isolation that

1620
01:20:40,692 --> 01:20:44,492
Speaker 9: came after that. Uranians in Iran right now feel like

1621
01:20:44,612 --> 01:20:47,372
Speaker 9: the world has turned away from them or even has

1622
01:20:47,412 --> 01:20:50,532
Speaker 9: strayed them. We all heard, you know what. For example,

1623
01:20:50,652 --> 01:20:54,053
Speaker 9: President Trump was telling people, you know, the health is

1624
01:20:55,013 --> 01:20:57,613
Speaker 9: on the way, and now he's sitting at the negotiation

1625
01:20:57,772 --> 01:21:00,692
Speaker 9: table with the same murderous regime that killed you know,

1626
01:21:00,812 --> 01:21:03,572
Speaker 9: its own people. So it seems like the only hope

1627
01:21:03,612 --> 01:21:06,933
Speaker 9: that people have in Iran now is that we in diaspora,

1628
01:21:07,053 --> 01:21:10,213
Speaker 9: the eight million Iranians living around the world, that we

1629
01:21:10,412 --> 01:21:11,452
Speaker 9: might be their voice.

1630
01:21:12,053 --> 01:21:15,253
Speaker 3: You mentioned your family and friends over there, and as

1631
01:21:15,452 --> 01:21:19,692
Speaker 3: we've been told the information blackout within the country is

1632
01:21:19,893 --> 01:21:23,612
Speaker 3: quite severe. Is it difficult for your family and friends

1633
01:21:23,812 --> 01:21:27,253
Speaker 3: to contact you, to get information? To understand what the

1634
01:21:27,293 --> 01:21:28,573
Speaker 3: response has been internationally.

1635
01:21:29,372 --> 01:21:30,293
Speaker 12: For the first two.

1636
01:21:30,213 --> 01:21:33,053
Speaker 9: Weeks after the massacre of eight and nine January, there

1637
01:21:33,213 --> 01:21:36,772
Speaker 9: was total blackout. No message could go and come back,

1638
01:21:36,893 --> 01:21:39,173
Speaker 9: not not just through social media, even you know, the

1639
01:21:39,333 --> 01:21:44,012
Speaker 9: direct landline were stopped. You know, we're controlled by the regime,

1640
01:21:44,173 --> 01:21:47,452
Speaker 9: so we had no meals and it was extremely difficult

1641
01:21:47,572 --> 01:21:51,532
Speaker 9: those two weeks for us. After that, landlines were okay

1642
01:21:51,652 --> 01:21:54,253
Speaker 9: and people have been able to send some messages by

1643
01:21:54,372 --> 01:21:57,133
Speaker 9: use with them. So for me, for example, it's just

1644
01:21:57,253 --> 01:21:59,293
Speaker 9: like I spend one message on what's up to my mom?

1645
01:21:59,412 --> 01:22:01,933
Speaker 9: It takes one week for her to receive it, and

1646
01:22:02,253 --> 01:22:05,133
Speaker 9: since you respond and again takes another week. So it's

1647
01:22:05,213 --> 01:22:08,572
Speaker 9: just been few text messages in the last month, and

1648
01:22:08,652 --> 01:22:12,173
Speaker 9: it's like then people don't feel, you know, like safe

1649
01:22:12,333 --> 01:22:15,173
Speaker 9: to talk on the phone or text messages. If you

1650
01:22:15,253 --> 01:22:17,572
Speaker 9: ask them what happened, how are you, they just say

1651
01:22:17,612 --> 01:22:20,492
Speaker 9: everything is good. It's a snowing now or it's raining,

1652
01:22:20,612 --> 01:22:23,652
Speaker 9: you know, So it feels like they cannot even you know,

1653
01:22:23,853 --> 01:22:25,173
Speaker 9: discuss things on the phone.

1654
01:22:25,772 --> 01:22:28,933
Speaker 2: We're speaking to doctor for a Man, founder of the

1655
01:22:29,013 --> 01:22:35,253
Speaker 2: Iranian Woman in New Zealand. What exactly do the protesters want?

1656
01:22:35,412 --> 01:22:39,053
Speaker 2: What would be the ultimate outcome if they get their way?

1657
01:22:39,853 --> 01:22:43,132
Speaker 9: Yes, thank you for this question. So one big turning

1658
01:22:43,213 --> 01:22:46,732
Speaker 9: point for this round of uprising in Iran that we

1659
01:22:46,853 --> 01:22:49,772
Speaker 9: call it revolution at the moment, is that, you know,

1660
01:22:50,053 --> 01:22:52,652
Speaker 9: it wasn't like the previous rounds that people were just

1661
01:22:52,732 --> 01:22:55,253
Speaker 9: saying we don't want this regime, this regime must go.

1662
01:22:55,572 --> 01:22:58,812
Speaker 9: Now we are talking about the alternative. So that was

1663
01:22:58,973 --> 01:23:01,532
Speaker 9: a huge turning point, you know, for the whole country.

1664
01:23:01,812 --> 01:23:05,372
Speaker 9: It seems that Iranians now they have you know, decided

1665
01:23:05,492 --> 01:23:08,772
Speaker 9: on having an alternative, and their alternatives to be the

1666
01:23:08,853 --> 01:23:11,973
Speaker 9: cown Prince resop Alabi. So it's like all of us

1667
01:23:12,253 --> 01:23:15,013
Speaker 9: now are rallying around this person as the leader of

1668
01:23:15,053 --> 01:23:18,972
Speaker 9: the opposition, leader for the transition government, and he has

1669
01:23:19,093 --> 01:23:22,012
Speaker 9: this plan for the first hundred one hundred and eighty

1670
01:23:22,213 --> 01:23:25,173
Speaker 9: days after the collapse of this regime. So he has

1671
01:23:25,213 --> 01:23:27,812
Speaker 9: a team that and they are in touch with many

1672
01:23:28,133 --> 01:23:32,253
Speaker 9: Iranian experts and professionals in the astor and inside Iran,

1673
01:23:32,612 --> 01:23:36,492
Speaker 9: so preparing everything for this transition period. And I think

1674
01:23:36,572 --> 01:23:39,732
Speaker 9: we are the closest in the seventy four years, you know,

1675
01:23:39,893 --> 01:23:43,412
Speaker 9: to this turning point of the collapse of this region.

1676
01:23:44,372 --> 01:23:47,133
Speaker 3: We are speaking to doctor Farrohm and founder of the

1677
01:23:47,293 --> 01:23:51,812
Speaker 3: Iranians Women Council in New Zealand. More with her very shortly.

1678
01:23:51,933 --> 01:23:54,333
Speaker 3: He's going to play some messages, but back very soon.

1679
01:23:54,492 --> 01:23:58,492
Speaker 3: There's thirteen past three. Us talk very good afternoon you

1680
01:23:58,572 --> 01:24:01,372
Speaker 3: at sixteen past three and we are speaking with doctor

1681
01:24:01,452 --> 01:24:05,572
Speaker 3: farrou And, founder of the Iranians Women's Council in New Zealand.

1682
01:24:05,652 --> 01:24:07,612
Speaker 3: Thank you again for your time. Doctor Amen.

1683
01:24:08,572 --> 01:24:12,412
Speaker 2: How much support, how much public support does the current

1684
01:24:12,532 --> 01:24:15,213
Speaker 2: regime have inside Iran?

1685
01:24:15,333 --> 01:24:18,732
Speaker 9: So you know, you cannot say any any exact number,

1686
01:24:18,933 --> 01:24:22,053
Speaker 9: but if you just considered the last election, you know,

1687
01:24:22,333 --> 01:24:25,093
Speaker 9: the so called election that happened in Iran. You know,

1688
01:24:25,293 --> 01:24:28,932
Speaker 9: even according to their own deta, something around twenty percent

1689
01:24:29,013 --> 01:24:32,852
Speaker 9: of people went for the parliamentary election. So and that's

1690
01:24:32,893 --> 01:24:35,093
Speaker 9: you know, we know that they never give you the

1691
01:24:35,213 --> 01:24:38,732
Speaker 9: correct number. You know, they manufacture number E genior number

1692
01:24:38,812 --> 01:24:42,572
Speaker 9: for themselves. Or even just a few days ago they

1693
01:24:42,692 --> 01:24:46,173
Speaker 9: had their anniversary of coming to power and all the

1694
01:24:46,253 --> 01:24:49,133
Speaker 9: footages that they were sewing on the media, then it

1695
01:24:49,253 --> 01:24:51,892
Speaker 9: turned out they were made by aar or they were

1696
01:24:52,013 --> 01:24:54,852
Speaker 9: from the previous years. So the funny thing about the

1697
01:24:55,173 --> 01:24:58,093
Speaker 9: murders regime is that they are not even smart. They

1698
01:24:58,173 --> 01:25:01,452
Speaker 9: were sewing some footages on TV from some of the

1699
01:25:01,532 --> 01:25:05,173
Speaker 9: commanders who were killed in Iran Israel war in June

1700
01:25:05,213 --> 01:25:09,173
Speaker 9: twenty twenty five, so from the previous years, they were

1701
01:25:09,253 --> 01:25:12,692
Speaker 9: sewing pictures and footages. Two people. So we know that

1702
01:25:13,013 --> 01:25:16,293
Speaker 9: at the moment only a very small minority. It should

1703
01:25:16,293 --> 01:25:18,612
Speaker 9: be less than to any person. I think even less

1704
01:25:18,652 --> 01:25:21,812
Speaker 9: than that who are directly connected to this regime and

1705
01:25:21,893 --> 01:25:24,732
Speaker 9: are benefiting front region are supporting them.

1706
01:25:24,893 --> 01:25:26,973
Speaker 3: So doctor, do you think this could be the end

1707
01:25:27,093 --> 01:25:28,452
Speaker 3: of the Islamic Republic?

1708
01:25:29,532 --> 01:25:32,452
Speaker 9: Yes, definitely, and it's not you know, it's it's going

1709
01:25:32,532 --> 01:25:35,932
Speaker 9: to be the end, not just if the international community

1710
01:25:36,013 --> 01:25:38,933
Speaker 9: comes to support Iranians, but because of the situation on

1711
01:25:39,053 --> 01:25:42,213
Speaker 9: the ground. You know, all the economic and all loss

1712
01:25:42,253 --> 01:25:45,772
Speaker 9: of legitimacy will finally lead to the end of this regime.

1713
01:25:45,933 --> 01:25:48,852
Speaker 9: But what we care about is how much our people

1714
01:25:48,933 --> 01:25:51,293
Speaker 9: are going to pay the price for this. We don't

1715
01:25:51,333 --> 01:25:54,293
Speaker 9: want more people to be killed or these thirty six

1716
01:25:54,412 --> 01:25:57,372
Speaker 9: thousand people have been killed only in two days. Just

1717
01:25:57,612 --> 01:26:00,532
Speaker 9: put it in the perspective, you know, and compare it

1718
01:26:00,652 --> 01:26:04,293
Speaker 9: with other conflicts and wars happening right now in the world.

1719
01:26:04,412 --> 01:26:08,492
Speaker 9: You know, this thirty six thousand is unprecedented and are

1720
01:26:08,492 --> 01:26:10,532
Speaker 9: not casualties of war. As I said, They were not

1721
01:26:10,732 --> 01:26:13,732
Speaker 9: killed by air stots. They were killed one by one, shot,

1722
01:26:13,973 --> 01:26:16,492
Speaker 9: one by one. You know, if your compares to what

1723
01:26:16,652 --> 01:26:19,972
Speaker 9: happened in Ukraine, in Gaza, in other parts of the world,

1724
01:26:20,093 --> 01:26:23,133
Speaker 9: you know, thirty six thousands in two days is not

1725
01:26:23,372 --> 01:26:27,653
Speaker 9: comparable to any any other you know, crimes against humanity

1726
01:26:27,732 --> 01:26:30,293
Speaker 9: that has happened, you know, around the world. But what

1727
01:26:30,572 --> 01:26:33,372
Speaker 9: matters to us is that, you know, the international community,

1728
01:26:33,452 --> 01:26:36,213
Speaker 9: especially after the twelve by President Trump, you know, so

1729
01:26:36,372 --> 01:26:38,612
Speaker 9: we're on the way. So I think they have this

1730
01:26:38,812 --> 01:26:42,492
Speaker 9: responsibility to react to what's happening in Iran and just

1731
01:26:42,652 --> 01:26:45,612
Speaker 9: you know, don't turn a blind riety just because it's

1732
01:26:45,612 --> 01:26:48,692
Speaker 9: something that happened inside the country. We saw a similar

1733
01:26:48,772 --> 01:26:52,213
Speaker 9: pattern with Student. It seems that you know, the international media,

1734
01:26:52,452 --> 01:26:55,372
Speaker 9: the people around the world don't care about things when

1735
01:26:55,532 --> 01:26:58,812
Speaker 9: one part of that is not you know, West somehow,

1736
01:26:59,253 --> 01:27:01,612
Speaker 9: you know, what happened in Iran, what happens Toudan. We

1737
01:27:01,692 --> 01:27:04,093
Speaker 9: don't see media covers for that, we don't see that

1738
01:27:04,213 --> 01:27:05,213
Speaker 9: people care about it.

1739
01:27:06,652 --> 01:27:09,293
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, can you go further into that, because

1740
01:27:09,293 --> 01:27:12,852
Speaker 2: obviously the numbers are just unfathomably grim. It's a horrible,

1741
01:27:12,893 --> 01:27:15,333
Speaker 2: horrible tragedy. So just if you could go a little

1742
01:27:15,333 --> 01:27:17,012
Speaker 2: bit deeper into that, why do you think it isn't

1743
01:27:17,013 --> 01:27:21,093
Speaker 2: getting the media coverage and the public outrage and the

1744
01:27:21,253 --> 01:27:25,452
Speaker 2: celebrity commenting commentary in Western countries like New Zealand, the

1745
01:27:25,853 --> 01:27:28,492
Speaker 2: other global events of its magnitude gives.

1746
01:27:28,853 --> 01:27:32,253
Speaker 9: Yeah, Actually, this lack of engagement from media, even here

1747
01:27:32,333 --> 01:27:35,492
Speaker 9: in New Zealand has been very shocking and also painful

1748
01:27:35,933 --> 01:27:39,372
Speaker 9: to our people. We have even been sending several opinion

1749
01:27:39,452 --> 01:27:42,692
Speaker 9: pieces to media outlets and they just declined them so

1750
01:27:42,893 --> 01:27:45,492
Speaker 9: something that they didn't used to do it during you know,

1751
01:27:46,093 --> 01:27:49,893
Speaker 9: previous rounds of revolution uprising in Iran and you know

1752
01:27:50,492 --> 01:27:53,053
Speaker 9: the events that we had. But one possible reason for

1753
01:27:53,213 --> 01:27:56,173
Speaker 9: it can be, you know, the revolution in Iran doesn't

1754
01:27:56,293 --> 01:28:00,173
Speaker 9: fit neatly into the dominant global narrative. We know that

1755
01:28:00,372 --> 01:28:04,412
Speaker 9: much of today's international discourse is shaped by anti imperialists,

1756
01:28:04,412 --> 01:28:07,893
Speaker 9: anti colonial, anti Western frameworks, and then we have a

1757
01:28:07,933 --> 01:28:13,253
Speaker 9: popular uprising against an authoritarian theocracy that doesn't you know,

1758
01:28:14,333 --> 01:28:17,532
Speaker 9: aligns measte with those lenses, and it's becoming you know,

1759
01:28:17,652 --> 01:28:21,532
Speaker 9: inconvenience for people, for media to come and uncover it.

1760
01:28:21,692 --> 01:28:24,452
Speaker 9: And then it raised a serious question for us, you know,

1761
01:28:24,853 --> 01:28:29,213
Speaker 9: So who's suffering is considered newsworthy? And why the voice

1762
01:28:29,253 --> 01:28:32,893
Speaker 9: of Iranians demanding basic right, dignity and freedom is just

1763
01:28:33,053 --> 01:28:37,092
Speaker 9: you know, sideline just because it doesn't you know, fitted

1764
01:28:37,173 --> 01:28:39,452
Speaker 9: the prevailing global world views.

1765
01:28:40,893 --> 01:28:44,053
Speaker 2: So what would you like new Zealanders to know. We've

1766
01:28:44,053 --> 01:28:46,133
Speaker 2: got a bunch of New Zealanders listening right now. What

1767
01:28:46,372 --> 01:28:48,812
Speaker 2: would you most like New Zealanders to know about what's

1768
01:28:48,853 --> 01:28:51,213
Speaker 2: going on? And if they would like to help, what

1769
01:28:51,412 --> 01:28:52,852
Speaker 2: would you like to see New Zealanders do?

1770
01:28:54,532 --> 01:28:56,612
Speaker 9: So first thing is that I think there are two

1771
01:28:56,772 --> 01:29:00,612
Speaker 9: main misconceptions among you know, New Zealanders about Iran and

1772
01:29:00,732 --> 01:29:03,692
Speaker 9: what's happening there. We have two groups, depending on where

1773
01:29:03,772 --> 01:29:07,093
Speaker 9: people sit on the political spectrum. You know, some people

1774
01:29:07,253 --> 01:29:10,412
Speaker 9: find it irrelevant why should we care about Iran? And

1775
01:29:10,612 --> 01:29:13,813
Speaker 9: some people view it as something hostile and threatening.

1776
01:29:14,253 --> 01:29:14,412
Speaker 4: You know.

1777
01:29:14,532 --> 01:29:17,532
Speaker 9: The first group usually overlook you know how Iran the

1778
01:29:17,612 --> 01:29:21,812
Speaker 9: stability as a big, ancient country, you know, has always

1779
01:29:21,933 --> 01:29:26,372
Speaker 9: affected global peace, regional security, in migration, energy markets and

1780
01:29:26,492 --> 01:29:29,053
Speaker 9: many other things. We just saw, you know, how this

1781
01:29:29,293 --> 01:29:32,933
Speaker 9: regime has exporting terrorism, you know, around the world. We

1782
01:29:33,013 --> 01:29:35,732
Speaker 9: saw what happened in Australia in twenty twenty four, you know,

1783
01:29:36,253 --> 01:29:39,572
Speaker 9: the crimes by the regime that led to the designation

1784
01:29:39,692 --> 01:29:43,173
Speaker 9: of IERGC, the Islamic Revolutionary Corps of the regime, as

1785
01:29:43,213 --> 01:29:46,372
Speaker 9: a terrorist organization in Australia and the disclosure of the

1786
01:29:46,772 --> 01:29:50,133
Speaker 9: embassy there. So that's what those who say why we

1787
01:29:50,173 --> 01:29:53,173
Speaker 9: should care? Who think about it? You know, twenty seven

1788
01:29:53,253 --> 01:29:56,532
Speaker 9: countries of European Union and also countries from five by

1789
01:29:56,973 --> 01:30:01,333
Speaker 9: countries Australia, Canada, US have all designated IRGC a terrorist

1790
01:30:01,452 --> 01:30:04,732
Speaker 9: organization and New Zealand lack of actions can turn New

1791
01:30:04,812 --> 01:30:08,532
Speaker 9: Zealand into a safe heaven for terrorism. So that's why,

1792
01:30:08,612 --> 01:30:11,173
Speaker 9: you know, in this today world, we cannot just say

1793
01:30:11,293 --> 01:30:14,012
Speaker 9: why should we care? And for those who are under

1794
01:30:14,093 --> 01:30:17,852
Speaker 9: political left, for them is uneasy. You know, they feel

1795
01:30:17,973 --> 01:30:23,213
Speaker 9: threatened because they interpret this you know struggle, this uprising

1796
01:30:23,492 --> 01:30:26,213
Speaker 9: as a as a you know, fight against a faith

1797
01:30:27,013 --> 01:30:29,892
Speaker 9: and they feel uncomfortable because, as I said, the movement

1798
01:30:30,053 --> 01:30:35,173
Speaker 9: doesn't fit into their popular narrative of anti imperialism, anti

1799
01:30:35,692 --> 01:30:38,732
Speaker 9: Western but we need to consider that. You know, Iranians

1800
01:30:38,772 --> 01:30:41,852
Speaker 9: people are out there, they have been massacred just for

1801
01:30:42,173 --> 01:30:46,732
Speaker 9: calling to have a normal, free space life with dignity,

1802
01:30:47,253 --> 01:30:50,013
Speaker 9: and it should you know, resonate far beyond you know,

1803
01:30:50,532 --> 01:30:52,572
Speaker 9: any political views.

1804
01:30:53,253 --> 01:30:56,173
Speaker 3: Doctor Farrow, thank you very much for joining us. We

1805
01:30:56,293 --> 01:31:00,173
Speaker 3: really appreciate your time and you're insights. Hopefully we'll catch

1806
01:31:00,253 --> 01:31:00,572
Speaker 3: up Agains.

1807
01:31:01,333 --> 01:31:02,412
Speaker 9: Thank you so much. Thank you.

1808
01:31:02,853 --> 01:31:06,613
Speaker 3: There is doctor Farrow and a head of the Iranian

1809
01:31:06,812 --> 01:31:09,652
Speaker 3: Woman's Council up after the break. We've had a phone

1810
01:31:09,692 --> 01:31:13,532
Speaker 3: call from a woman called Samara Takharve. She's an Iranian

1811
01:31:13,572 --> 01:31:17,053
Speaker 3: New Zealander, a barrister and solicitor based in Auckland. She

1812
01:31:17,173 --> 01:31:19,692
Speaker 3: gave us a buzz and she's certainly been very vocal

1813
01:31:19,812 --> 01:31:22,173
Speaker 3: on the situation in Iran. So we're going to chat

1814
01:31:22,253 --> 01:31:24,892
Speaker 3: to her next. It is twenty four past three.

1815
01:31:28,732 --> 01:31:32,133
Speaker 1: Matt Heathan Tyler Adams afternoons call oh eight hundred and

1816
01:31:32,213 --> 01:31:34,372
Speaker 1: eighty ten eighty on News Talk ZB.

1817
01:31:34,372 --> 01:31:37,372
Speaker 3: Twenty six pass three. We are continuing our discussion on

1818
01:31:37,412 --> 01:31:38,452
Speaker 3: the situation in Iran.

1819
01:31:39,333 --> 01:31:42,772
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a text on why we aren't

1820
01:31:42,812 --> 01:31:45,412
Speaker 2: so focused on the Iran situation. I think this is

1821
01:31:45,412 --> 01:31:47,852
Speaker 2: a very honest text for someone to send through. I

1822
01:31:47,973 --> 01:31:51,452
Speaker 2: think I care, but it's too complex. I think I care,

1823
01:31:51,492 --> 01:31:54,012
Speaker 2: but it's too complex. I've tried, but I don't care

1824
01:31:54,053 --> 01:31:56,492
Speaker 2: about it like I did about Gaza. It just doesn't

1825
01:31:56,532 --> 01:31:59,293
Speaker 2: come up in my feed as much. I just don't

1826
01:31:59,372 --> 01:32:02,293
Speaker 2: feel it in the same way. I don't see the pictures.

1827
01:32:02,372 --> 01:32:05,012
Speaker 2: Does that make me a bad person, but I don't

1828
01:32:05,053 --> 01:32:05,652
Speaker 2: care as much?

1829
01:32:06,293 --> 01:32:09,692
Speaker 3: So great, great text and brute you care.

1830
01:32:09,572 --> 01:32:12,012
Speaker 2: About what's flashed in front of your face. Obviously, people

1831
01:32:12,053 --> 01:32:14,893
Speaker 2: are busy, they're going about their day to day, and

1832
01:32:15,173 --> 01:32:17,133
Speaker 2: so this person really cared about what they were seeing

1833
01:32:17,372 --> 01:32:19,652
Speaker 2: a lot of. And the fact of the matter is

1834
01:32:19,812 --> 01:32:23,013
Speaker 2: the Internet is blocked and no journalists can land on,

1835
01:32:23,612 --> 01:32:26,172
Speaker 2: you know, can really get in there because they'd immediately

1836
01:32:26,213 --> 01:32:29,652
Speaker 2: be arrested by the regime. So we're not getting the pictures.

1837
01:32:30,732 --> 01:32:35,333
Speaker 2: And you know this does it does sound vacuous, but

1838
01:32:35,572 --> 01:32:37,612
Speaker 2: that's a big part of it for kiwis it's on

1839
01:32:37,652 --> 01:32:39,293
Speaker 2: the other side of the world and we don't see

1840
01:32:39,333 --> 01:32:42,492
Speaker 2: the pictures, yep. And you know, people aren't running stories

1841
01:32:43,013 --> 01:32:45,253
Speaker 2: and sometimes people don't run stori because they don't get

1842
01:32:45,253 --> 01:32:47,692
Speaker 2: clicks and they don't get clicks because they don't have

1843
01:32:47,933 --> 01:32:51,333
Speaker 2: the easily readily available pictures to get the clicks.

1844
01:32:51,412 --> 01:32:53,532
Speaker 3: Yeah, very true, and that doesn't make you a bad person.

1845
01:32:53,612 --> 01:32:56,892
Speaker 2: To that last point, this person says, guys don't forget

1846
01:32:56,933 --> 01:33:00,173
Speaker 2: about the carnage and Sudan, which is even worse. Yeah,

1847
01:33:00,333 --> 01:33:02,293
Speaker 2: so we're asking why why don't we hear a lot

1848
01:33:02,333 --> 01:33:05,452
Speaker 2: about Iran? We don't hear a lot about Sudan either. Yeah,

1849
01:33:06,333 --> 01:33:10,412
Speaker 2: a brutal power struggle, that one. I mean some people

1850
01:33:10,572 --> 01:33:12,132
Speaker 2: think that that's one hundred and fifty thousand.

1851
01:33:12,333 --> 01:33:15,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, Samira, how are you this afternoon?

1852
01:33:16,772 --> 01:33:17,852
Speaker 18: Very well? Thank you.

1853
01:33:19,093 --> 01:33:21,852
Speaker 3: So, I know you've given us a buzz, But for

1854
01:33:21,933 --> 01:33:24,772
Speaker 3: people who don't know, just give our audience an idea

1855
01:33:24,853 --> 01:33:25,572
Speaker 3: of who you are.

1856
01:33:26,812 --> 01:33:30,492
Speaker 18: Yes, absolutely, Look, I'm a criminal lawyer and I've been

1857
01:33:30,572 --> 01:33:33,133
Speaker 18: in New Zealand for over fifteen years now. I left

1858
01:33:33,173 --> 01:33:36,532
Speaker 18: around twenty and ten, and I practiced both as a

1859
01:33:36,572 --> 01:33:40,452
Speaker 18: criminal lawyer back home in Iran and also in New Zealand.

1860
01:33:40,652 --> 01:33:45,333
Speaker 18: So I've been heavily invested in human rights and have

1861
01:33:45,452 --> 01:33:48,172
Speaker 18: a lot of friends who practice as human rights lawyers

1862
01:33:48,253 --> 01:33:50,652
Speaker 18: back home. Most of them are in prison at the moment,

1863
01:33:50,732 --> 01:33:52,853
Speaker 18: So that's a bit of a background.

1864
01:33:52,532 --> 01:33:55,452
Speaker 2: For you guys. When were you practicing criminal law in Iran?

1865
01:33:55,532 --> 01:33:56,053
Speaker 2: How long ago?

1866
01:33:56,213 --> 01:33:56,333
Speaker 4: Was that?

1867
01:33:57,572 --> 01:33:58,652
Speaker 18: Quite a long time ago?

1868
01:33:58,772 --> 01:34:02,293
Speaker 3: Almost fifteen years ago, right, But that's deep into the.

1869
01:34:03,933 --> 01:34:06,253
Speaker 2: Current post Islamic revolution.

1870
01:34:07,213 --> 01:34:10,532
Speaker 18: Absolutely, And the law school in Iran is one of

1871
01:34:10,612 --> 01:34:15,732
Speaker 18: the most political and probably most religious universities or schools

1872
01:34:15,812 --> 01:34:17,852
Speaker 18: back home in Iran, So we had a lot of

1873
01:34:18,013 --> 01:34:21,213
Speaker 18: involvement with protests and strikes and several other things. So

1874
01:34:21,253 --> 01:34:25,652
Speaker 18: I'm very well familiar with the regime. I just thought

1875
01:34:25,692 --> 01:34:27,692
Speaker 18: I would give you guys a call. I listened to

1876
01:34:27,853 --> 01:34:29,452
Speaker 18: my call. It was I had a bit of a

1877
01:34:29,492 --> 01:34:31,812
Speaker 18: giggle because you both were very confused in terms of

1878
01:34:31,893 --> 01:34:36,093
Speaker 18: what he was talking about. I actually wasn't that wasn't

1879
01:34:36,133 --> 01:34:40,692
Speaker 18: a surprised about his comments. He sounded quite uninformed about

1880
01:34:40,732 --> 01:34:45,492
Speaker 18: the issues. But also I think what he said, in

1881
01:34:45,572 --> 01:34:48,853
Speaker 18: my view, reflected wider problem. A lot of New Zealanders

1882
01:34:49,253 --> 01:34:52,692
Speaker 18: at the moment, understandably, are really fatigued by all the

1883
01:34:52,772 --> 01:34:54,933
Speaker 18: international issues. And we have a lot of problems in

1884
01:34:55,013 --> 01:34:58,692
Speaker 18: New Zealand ourselves, the poverty, the cost of living, also

1885
01:34:58,973 --> 01:35:01,053
Speaker 18: stuff that is happening. Sorry, it's just my text mes.

1886
01:35:01,093 --> 01:35:04,852
Speaker 18: It is coming through. But I think what's really important

1887
01:35:04,893 --> 01:35:08,772
Speaker 18: for New Zealanders to know is that how does situation

1888
01:35:09,053 --> 01:35:13,293
Speaker 18: in Iran and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Core and their

1889
01:35:13,372 --> 01:35:16,972
Speaker 18: activities beyond the borders of Iran would affect New Zealand.

1890
01:35:17,572 --> 01:35:20,932
Speaker 18: I think once we start educating our Kiwis in terms

1891
01:35:20,973 --> 01:35:24,772
Speaker 18: of why they should be concerned about the operations of

1892
01:35:24,933 --> 01:35:29,492
Speaker 18: the IIGC operators on New Zealand soil, then they might

1893
01:35:29,532 --> 01:35:31,812
Speaker 18: have started thinking, well, this is not far from home,

1894
01:35:32,333 --> 01:35:35,692
Speaker 18: because we had the same problem in Australia. Australia is

1895
01:35:35,772 --> 01:35:38,213
Speaker 18: not far from home. We had the terrorist attack on

1896
01:35:38,333 --> 01:35:42,412
Speaker 18: the Jewish community and the synagogue back in November and

1897
01:35:42,492 --> 01:35:47,372
Speaker 18: October last year, and what happened after further investigation, the

1898
01:35:47,372 --> 01:35:50,732
Speaker 18: Australian intelligence found out that the IIGC was a big

1899
01:35:50,893 --> 01:35:54,773
Speaker 18: part of it. So what they did eventually they designated

1900
01:35:55,013 --> 01:35:59,133
Speaker 18: the IIGC as a terror entity and expel the ambassadors.

1901
01:35:59,173 --> 01:36:02,972
Speaker 18: So those are really really important. And as doctor Amin said,

1902
01:36:03,612 --> 01:36:06,772
Speaker 18: basically the IIDC is now a terrorist organization in most

1903
01:36:06,853 --> 01:36:10,372
Speaker 18: countries but not in New Zealand, so New Zealand will

1904
01:36:10,492 --> 01:36:13,372
Speaker 18: be safe haven for them. And I think once key

1905
01:36:13,412 --> 01:36:17,452
Speaker 18: we have started thinking well, we can't afford a terrorist

1906
01:36:17,492 --> 01:36:20,612
Speaker 18: attack on our soil. Then they will start putting pressure

1907
01:36:20,652 --> 01:36:24,372
Speaker 18: on the wrong government asking the obvious question as why

1908
01:36:24,492 --> 01:36:28,452
Speaker 18: the IIGC is not a terrorist organization yet in New Zealand.

1909
01:36:28,732 --> 01:36:30,852
Speaker 18: So I think we need to probably shift the focus

1910
01:36:31,452 --> 01:36:34,812
Speaker 18: and start educating our New Zealanders in terms of them

1911
01:36:34,973 --> 01:36:37,772
Speaker 18: asking the question from the government as why the government

1912
01:36:37,853 --> 01:36:41,772
Speaker 18: is not protecting New Zealanders. Forget about Iranians. Okay, this

1913
01:36:41,933 --> 01:36:44,612
Speaker 18: is not the Iroun issue. This is now becoming a

1914
01:36:44,772 --> 01:36:47,692
Speaker 18: real problem in New Zealand because we don't have them

1915
01:36:47,732 --> 01:36:50,692
Speaker 18: as a terrorist organization, so they can easily start coming

1916
01:36:50,973 --> 01:36:54,492
Speaker 18: to New Zealand. So I also want to go back

1917
01:36:54,612 --> 01:37:00,852
Speaker 18: to Professor I'm sorry, yeah, forgot his curtain. Sorry, I

1918
01:37:01,133 --> 01:37:08,293
Speaker 18: just wanted to say, yes, why not. I fundamentally disagree

1919
01:37:08,692 --> 01:37:11,652
Speaker 18: with him on a few key points, especially around what

1920
01:37:11,812 --> 01:37:15,893
Speaker 18: he described as the inflection point and the idea that

1921
01:37:15,973 --> 01:37:18,532
Speaker 18: there's no clear plan for what comes next next for

1922
01:37:18,612 --> 01:37:23,253
Speaker 18: Iran And with respect to Professor Ansari calling two thousand

1923
01:37:23,253 --> 01:37:26,973
Speaker 18: and nine the inflection point reflects what we call it

1924
01:37:27,213 --> 01:37:33,412
Speaker 18: a reformist academic perspective. Okay, it suggests a tragedy that

1925
01:37:34,412 --> 01:37:38,892
Speaker 18: the reform inside the Islamic Republic failed. But it's really

1926
01:37:39,053 --> 01:37:43,572
Speaker 18: important to know that millions of Iranians what they're saying

1927
01:37:43,652 --> 01:37:44,212
Speaker 18: that they're.

1928
01:37:44,053 --> 01:37:45,212
Speaker 12: Not asking for reform.

1929
01:37:45,612 --> 01:37:49,972
Speaker 18: They are rejecting the Islamic Republic entirely, and it's entirety.

1930
01:37:50,173 --> 01:37:54,012
Speaker 18: They don't want a reformed version of the Islamic Republic.

1931
01:37:54,492 --> 01:37:58,532
Speaker 18: They are no longer debating between hardliners and moderators. They

1932
01:37:58,652 --> 01:38:02,692
Speaker 18: wanted gone completely. Okay, and we've lost way too many

1933
01:38:02,812 --> 01:38:05,892
Speaker 18: people in the past three weeks. You refer to thirty

1934
01:38:05,933 --> 01:38:10,572
Speaker 18: five thousand. The recent is stat is over fifty thousand, okay,

1935
01:38:10,692 --> 01:38:13,532
Speaker 18: and that is just the confirmed statistics that we have.

1936
01:38:14,093 --> 01:38:16,333
Speaker 18: The real statistics would be far far.

1937
01:38:16,333 --> 01:38:16,852
Speaker 12: More than that.

1938
01:38:17,612 --> 01:38:22,133
Speaker 18: So when center, when we center two thousand and nine,

1939
01:38:22,372 --> 01:38:25,852
Speaker 18: as Professor Ansari said as a turning point, we really

1940
01:38:26,053 --> 01:38:29,772
Speaker 18: really risk centering reformism and that's not the demand on

1941
01:38:29,853 --> 01:38:33,692
Speaker 18: the street. Secondly, I really reject the suggestion that there's

1942
01:38:33,732 --> 01:38:37,333
Speaker 18: no plan and the chaos is a natural trajectory. As

1943
01:38:37,412 --> 01:38:40,732
Speaker 18: he put it, this is completely The narrative is very dangerous,

1944
01:38:40,812 --> 01:38:43,412
Speaker 18: but it's also very academic. I'm not sure if doctor

1945
01:38:43,452 --> 01:38:46,692
Speaker 18: Ansary has ever actually lived in around under the Islamic regime.

1946
01:38:47,013 --> 01:38:49,852
Speaker 18: It's a very different perspective you get when you lived

1947
01:38:49,973 --> 01:38:53,132
Speaker 18: under their regime, when you have been imprisoned under the regime,

1948
01:38:53,213 --> 01:38:55,412
Speaker 18: when you have been tortured, when you have been lashed,

1949
01:38:55,492 --> 01:38:59,652
Speaker 18: when you have been dealing daily where the atrocity is

1950
01:38:59,812 --> 01:39:03,532
Speaker 18: actually back home. But the narrative he put forward today,

1951
01:39:03,732 --> 01:39:08,492
Speaker 18: it feeds the idea that dictatorship he calls stability, and

1952
01:39:08,812 --> 01:39:13,532
Speaker 18: any alternative he calls disorder. That is the actual logic

1953
01:39:13,893 --> 01:39:17,372
Speaker 18: that has been used for decades to justify leaving this

1954
01:39:17,572 --> 01:39:20,452
Speaker 18: regime in place. So this is very very important to

1955
01:39:20,572 --> 01:39:24,293
Speaker 18: know that we disagree with him. Most people who actually

1956
01:39:24,372 --> 01:39:28,452
Speaker 18: lived in around highly educated in every respect, they would

1957
01:39:28,492 --> 01:39:32,533
Speaker 18: disagree with that notion and trajectory. There are transition frameworks,

1958
01:39:32,933 --> 01:39:37,372
Speaker 18: there are economic proposals in place. Crown Prince Raza Pahlavi

1959
01:39:37,612 --> 01:39:43,373
Speaker 18: has a very three clear steps actually into secular democratic society.

1960
01:39:43,452 --> 01:39:46,452
Speaker 18: In terms of the transition, it starts with the first

1961
01:39:46,612 --> 01:39:47,372
Speaker 18: eighteen months.

1962
01:39:47,732 --> 01:39:50,572
Speaker 2: Hey, somorry, we've got to go to the news. Can

1963
01:39:50,652 --> 01:39:52,173
Speaker 2: you just hold them. We'll come back after the news.

1964
01:39:52,213 --> 01:39:54,213
Speaker 2: So we've gone a bit long, rely really interested in

1965
01:39:54,293 --> 01:39:56,093
Speaker 2: what you're saying, but we have to go to the

1966
01:39:56,173 --> 01:39:58,732
Speaker 2: news now and we'll absolutely. We'll come back after that

1967
01:39:58,853 --> 01:39:59,013
Speaker 2: to you.

1968
01:39:59,133 --> 01:40:00,532
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll pick it up in a couple of minutes.

1969
01:40:00,532 --> 01:40:04,213
Speaker 3: Headlines coming up and then we'll return to Samara Tokave.

1970
01:40:04,452 --> 01:40:06,013
Speaker 3: It is twenty five to four.

1971
01:40:07,492 --> 01:40:11,812
Speaker 13: You've talked headlines with your Ride, New Zealand's number one

1972
01:40:11,933 --> 01:40:12,612
Speaker 13: taxi app.

1973
01:40:13,013 --> 01:40:14,492
Speaker 2: Download your ride today.

1974
01:40:15,333 --> 01:40:19,133
Speaker 13: Unrelenting rain continues to fall on christ Church and Dunedin

1975
01:40:19,492 --> 01:40:23,692
Speaker 13: in parts under heavy rain warnings into tonight. Canterbury's Banks

1976
01:40:23,772 --> 01:40:27,412
Speaker 13: Peninsula has a local state of emergency, with Highways seventy

1977
01:40:27,492 --> 01:40:31,133
Speaker 13: five largely closed by flooding and boil water notices for

1978
01:40:31,213 --> 01:40:36,173
Speaker 13: Wainui and Little River. Dunedin's Tahuna wastewater plant overflow has

1979
01:40:36,293 --> 01:40:41,173
Speaker 13: been activated and people shouldn't swim at beaches. Parts earlier

1980
01:40:41,253 --> 01:40:44,053
Speaker 13: hit by extreme weather in central and lower parts of

1981
01:40:44,133 --> 01:40:47,772
Speaker 13: the North Island still have power outages and road closures.

1982
01:40:48,973 --> 01:40:52,293
Speaker 13: Suggestions from the Infrastructure Commission in its thirty year plan

1983
01:40:52,452 --> 01:40:56,173
Speaker 13: released today include spending less on roads and a nine

1984
01:40:56,253 --> 01:41:00,452
Speaker 13: dollars toll for a second Auckland harbour crossing. Hospitals are

1985
01:41:00,492 --> 01:41:04,932
Speaker 13: a top priority. Statzanzit says food price inflation has risen

1986
01:41:05,013 --> 01:41:06,972
Speaker 13: sharply from four percent a month ago.

1987
01:41:07,293 --> 01:41:08,173
Speaker 2: To four point six.

1988
01:41:09,293 --> 01:41:14,492
Speaker 13: SkyTV's Neon services losing HBO, Max and Warner Brothers Discovery

1989
01:41:14,532 --> 01:41:17,652
Speaker 13: will instead air shows here like The Pit, The White

1990
01:41:17,732 --> 01:41:22,652
Speaker 13: Lotus and Euphoria Mega Flooding. Morning from top climate scientist.

1991
01:41:23,173 --> 01:41:26,333
Speaker 13: Have we had our last classic? Can we summer? You

1992
01:41:26,412 --> 01:41:28,972
Speaker 13: can read more at ends at Herald Premium. Now back

1993
01:41:28,973 --> 01:41:30,533
Speaker 13: to matt Ethan Tyner Adam.

1994
01:41:30,372 --> 01:41:33,252
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Rayley. We are discussing the situation

1995
01:41:33,492 --> 01:41:36,093
Speaker 3: in Iran and why it seems to have fallen off

1996
01:41:36,412 --> 01:41:39,452
Speaker 3: the radar in terms of outrage. Plenty of texts coming through.

1997
01:41:39,973 --> 01:41:42,772
Speaker 2: Yeah, the honest text highlights another issue. This was the

1998
01:41:42,812 --> 01:41:47,213
Speaker 2: person that was saying that they don't care even though

1999
01:41:47,253 --> 01:41:49,412
Speaker 2: they think they probably should, just because they don't see

2000
01:41:49,492 --> 01:41:53,013
Speaker 2: enough images of it, So it hasn't hasn't risen their

2001
01:41:53,093 --> 01:41:55,253
Speaker 2: interest because it's not coming up on their feet, Yes,

2002
01:41:55,652 --> 01:41:58,452
Speaker 2: and was asking if they're a bad person because of that. Hi, guys,

2003
01:41:58,492 --> 01:42:00,932
Speaker 2: simply put the human brain on a hanuman. The honest

2004
01:42:00,973 --> 01:42:03,692
Speaker 2: text highlights another issue that social media dictates what we

2005
01:42:03,812 --> 01:42:06,893
Speaker 2: care about and how much. What's also concerning is that

2006
01:42:06,893 --> 01:42:10,372
Speaker 2: the majority of these images can be AI or fabricated.

2007
01:42:10,732 --> 01:42:14,213
Speaker 2: People are so shallow and easily influenced. Yeah, I mean

2008
01:42:14,253 --> 01:42:16,093
Speaker 2: that is a concern with images, now, isn't it going

2009
01:42:16,133 --> 01:42:18,732
Speaker 2: for absolutely? And this tick says, hey, guys, simply put,

2010
01:42:18,732 --> 01:42:20,572
Speaker 2: the human brain is not wide to be worrying about

2011
01:42:20,612 --> 01:42:23,412
Speaker 2: things happening five thousand kilometers away. People throughout most of

2012
01:42:23,492 --> 01:42:26,732
Speaker 2: history have only had to worry about what's happening the

2013
01:42:26,853 --> 01:42:29,253
Speaker 2: next village over. That is why people are so anxious

2014
01:42:29,293 --> 01:42:31,133
Speaker 2: and fatigued around the world. Yeah, I mean, I think

2015
01:42:31,492 --> 01:42:33,093
Speaker 2: that's a good point. We do spend a lot of

2016
01:42:33,133 --> 01:42:34,852
Speaker 2: time worrying about things that happening a long time ago,

2017
01:42:34,933 --> 01:42:41,612
Speaker 2: but we seem to be entirely focused on American political rumblings.

2018
01:42:42,133 --> 01:42:45,293
Speaker 2: And I don't think that's a coincidence because a lot

2019
01:42:45,333 --> 01:42:47,293
Speaker 2: of the social media comes out of the States. So

2020
01:42:48,293 --> 01:42:51,612
Speaker 2: Washington is fourteen thousand kilometers away, and how many people

2021
01:42:51,812 --> 01:42:54,572
Speaker 2: are thinking about what's happening with Trump? Two, three, four,

2022
01:42:54,732 --> 01:42:55,532
Speaker 2: ten times a day?

2023
01:42:55,652 --> 01:42:57,852
Speaker 3: Yeah, ninety percent of the population. Apparently.

2024
01:42:57,973 --> 01:43:01,012
Speaker 2: It's just going on and on and on about that, Yeah, exactly.

2025
01:43:01,253 --> 01:43:04,052
Speaker 2: So if we can think about constantly about what's happening

2026
01:43:04,133 --> 01:43:07,932
Speaker 2: in Washington, why can we not or Minnesota or where ever?

2027
01:43:08,492 --> 01:43:08,532
Speaker 4: What?

2028
01:43:08,692 --> 01:43:10,412
Speaker 2: Why is it that we can't think about what's empening

2029
01:43:10,452 --> 01:43:13,013
Speaker 2: in Iran, which is only another thousand kilometers away from

2030
01:43:13,053 --> 01:43:14,973
Speaker 2: that fifteen thousand company. This way, I'm just making up.

2031
01:43:15,173 --> 01:43:15,972
Speaker 2: I'll look up the numbers.

2032
01:43:16,213 --> 01:43:18,732
Speaker 3: And now before the headlines, we were speaking to Samara

2033
01:43:18,853 --> 01:43:21,893
Speaker 3: tug Harve. She is an Iranian New Zealander and a

2034
01:43:22,093 --> 01:43:25,612
Speaker 3: top barrister in lawyer within New Zealand. Samara, thanks again

2035
01:43:25,692 --> 01:43:27,973
Speaker 3: for holding over the headlines. Now just to pick up

2036
01:43:28,013 --> 01:43:30,173
Speaker 3: you were making some points of order in terms of

2037
01:43:30,213 --> 01:43:33,812
Speaker 3: the conclusions historian Professor Ali and Sari made earlier in

2038
01:43:33,853 --> 01:43:34,293
Speaker 3: the program.

2039
01:43:35,492 --> 01:43:37,053
Speaker 6: Yes, I was getting Actually I was.

2040
01:43:39,732 --> 01:43:43,372
Speaker 18: Talking about disagreeing with him, rejecting the suggestion that there's

2041
01:43:43,412 --> 01:43:47,333
Speaker 18: no plan, and I was calling that narrative really really dangerous,

2042
01:43:47,853 --> 01:43:51,293
Speaker 18: because there are transition frameworks in place, and that's been

2043
01:43:51,372 --> 01:43:55,492
Speaker 18: designed by Crown Prince Kalavi and his team. He's got

2044
01:43:55,532 --> 01:43:58,772
Speaker 18: a highly educated team behind him and they've been working

2045
01:43:58,853 --> 01:44:02,412
Speaker 18: on it consistently for the past few years. There are

2046
01:44:02,612 --> 01:44:06,972
Speaker 18: economic there are economic proposals in place. There are structured

2047
01:44:07,013 --> 01:44:11,772
Speaker 18: discussions about how to actually prevent institutional collapse and manage

2048
01:44:11,812 --> 01:44:15,092
Speaker 18: the first phase of the change. Look, it's not about

2049
01:44:15,173 --> 01:44:19,133
Speaker 18: whether one supports every detail. That's not the point. The

2050
01:44:19,253 --> 01:44:22,093
Speaker 18: point is that there is a planning. The planning is this,

2051
01:44:22,333 --> 01:44:25,452
Speaker 18: and to dismiss that simply it's really inaccurate. And also

2052
01:44:25,532 --> 01:44:29,333
Speaker 18: with respect to professor and sorry, Analyzing around from a

2053
01:44:29,452 --> 01:44:32,492
Speaker 18: distance is very different from having lived under the system,

2054
01:44:33,013 --> 01:44:36,732
Speaker 18: when you have experienced daily repression, when you have seen corruption.

2055
01:44:37,452 --> 01:44:39,973
Speaker 18: And give you an example in terms of judges. You

2056
01:44:40,053 --> 01:44:42,492
Speaker 18: know you have a case running in Iran and the

2057
01:44:42,572 --> 01:44:45,213
Speaker 18: judge ask you in chambers and they basically ask you

2058
01:44:45,293 --> 01:44:47,412
Speaker 18: to tell you the other party has offered me this

2059
01:44:47,492 --> 01:44:49,812
Speaker 18: amount of money, how much you're offering me. This is

2060
01:44:49,893 --> 01:44:54,772
Speaker 18: the system we are living under the Islamic Republic of Iran.

2061
01:44:55,213 --> 01:44:57,412
Speaker 18: And I'll tell you another example. As a lawyer, we

2062
01:44:57,452 --> 01:45:00,093
Speaker 18: don't have a single judge in Iran who's legally qualified.

2063
01:45:00,532 --> 01:45:04,733
Speaker 18: They all have a religious background. They all are basically moralized.

2064
01:45:05,053 --> 01:45:07,652
Speaker 18: And if you're an educated lawyer who wants to become

2065
01:45:07,692 --> 01:45:10,532
Speaker 18: a judge, women cannot be judged in around. So we're

2066
01:45:10,572 --> 01:45:14,253
Speaker 18: only talking about male and they have to if they

2067
01:45:14,372 --> 01:45:17,492
Speaker 18: don't follow the rules, don't issue their penalties, they're not

2068
01:45:17,572 --> 01:45:19,893
Speaker 18: going to be on the bench. Far too long. So

2069
01:45:20,572 --> 01:45:23,333
Speaker 18: every time there has been a chance for reform. The

2070
01:45:23,452 --> 01:45:26,213
Speaker 18: answer has been arrested perde violence, and that is a

2071
01:45:26,253 --> 01:45:27,333
Speaker 18: structural reality.

2072
01:45:27,492 --> 01:45:30,173
Speaker 2: So I guess one thing. One thing though, so you know,

2073
01:45:30,333 --> 01:45:33,572
Speaker 2: and please explain this to me. But so, the Crown

2074
01:45:33,652 --> 01:45:36,812
Speaker 2: Prince is the son of the Shah who was ousted

2075
01:45:37,492 --> 01:45:40,812
Speaker 2: in the Islamic Revolution of nineteen seventy nine. But the

2076
01:45:40,893 --> 01:45:45,093
Speaker 2: shar was hugely unpopular when he was ousted, which led

2077
01:45:45,133 --> 01:45:49,253
Speaker 2: to the revolution in part due to his I guess,

2078
01:45:49,333 --> 01:45:55,092
Speaker 2: secret police crackdowns, not democratically. You know, he wasn't running

2079
01:45:55,093 --> 01:45:58,093
Speaker 2: a democracy. So can you see why some people would

2080
01:45:58,133 --> 01:46:02,333
Speaker 2: worry that the Crown Prince would not be bringing in

2081
01:46:02,412 --> 01:46:05,052
Speaker 2: democracy but insteed a monarchy.

2082
01:46:06,492 --> 01:46:09,932
Speaker 18: Look, I completely understand that I was born way after

2083
01:46:10,013 --> 01:46:13,333
Speaker 18: the revolution. Okay, Unfortunately I was born into the Islamic

2084
01:46:13,412 --> 01:46:16,093
Speaker 18: Republic resume, which I never had a chance to live

2085
01:46:16,173 --> 01:46:16,612
Speaker 18: under Shah.

2086
01:46:17,133 --> 01:46:18,532
Speaker 9: But if people start.

2087
01:46:18,492 --> 01:46:21,013
Speaker 18: Educating themselves, that's why I try to tell everyone, go

2088
01:46:21,213 --> 01:46:25,412
Speaker 18: and read the Prosperity Plan, the constitution that has been

2089
01:46:25,532 --> 01:46:29,532
Speaker 18: drafted by Crown Prince Perlavi. There is nothing in the

2090
01:46:29,612 --> 01:46:33,933
Speaker 18: constitution talking about monarchy. The guy is talking about referendum.

2091
01:46:34,213 --> 01:46:37,293
Speaker 18: He's talking about the people of around making a decision

2092
01:46:37,532 --> 01:46:42,653
Speaker 18: for themselves. You can call someone like him with that ideology,

2093
01:46:42,772 --> 01:46:45,893
Speaker 18: with that idea, when you actually go and read the

2094
01:46:46,013 --> 01:46:49,612
Speaker 18: three phases, read the constitution they have drafted, you can

2095
01:46:50,093 --> 01:46:53,652
Speaker 18: absolutely not call him a monarchist because he is not

2096
01:46:53,772 --> 01:46:58,372
Speaker 18: after monarchy. He said that I'm just a safe way

2097
01:46:58,812 --> 01:47:01,972
Speaker 18: for this transition. Then the people of Iran can choose

2098
01:47:02,093 --> 01:47:05,012
Speaker 18: what they want to do. Look, you will never find

2099
01:47:05,013 --> 01:47:08,133
Speaker 18: one hundred percent agreement in terms of the leader of

2100
01:47:08,133 --> 01:47:11,653
Speaker 18: the opposition, But the reality is this that the majority

2101
01:47:11,732 --> 01:47:15,852
Speaker 18: of Iranians inside and outside Iran have accepted him as

2102
01:47:15,893 --> 01:47:19,772
Speaker 18: the leader of the opposition. And look, guys, it's very,

2103
01:47:20,173 --> 01:47:24,333
Speaker 18: very hard to have a revolution without a leader. Any

2104
01:47:24,452 --> 01:47:27,852
Speaker 18: revolution needs a leader. That's why all the past events

2105
01:47:27,933 --> 01:47:31,093
Speaker 18: have failed, because we didn't have someone who would lead

2106
01:47:31,253 --> 01:47:36,693
Speaker 18: Iran into a safe transition and into a demographic society.

2107
01:47:37,093 --> 01:47:40,812
Speaker 18: But we have that opportunity now. And I would really

2108
01:47:40,933 --> 01:47:45,812
Speaker 18: really hate when I see people like academics or people

2109
01:47:45,933 --> 01:47:49,492
Speaker 18: like politicians, you know, like left politicians. By the way,

2110
01:47:49,853 --> 01:47:53,653
Speaker 18: we say that we don't need foreign intervention, Iran absolutely

2111
01:47:53,772 --> 01:47:57,372
Speaker 18: needs foreign intervention. This regime just kills and kills and

2112
01:47:57,532 --> 01:48:02,052
Speaker 18: kills unless they are gone by potentially a foreign intervention.

2113
01:48:03,133 --> 01:48:07,372
Speaker 18: It's going to be very difficult for people to keep going.

2114
01:48:07,253 --> 01:48:09,213
Speaker 3: Because Okay, they're just going to be dead.

2115
01:48:09,333 --> 01:48:11,893
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's good now, just finally, So a lot of

2116
01:48:11,933 --> 01:48:14,333
Speaker 2: people are texting through saying that there are that that

2117
01:48:14,612 --> 01:48:18,412
Speaker 2: there is democratic elections in Iran and that woman can vote.

2118
01:48:18,933 --> 01:48:22,772
Speaker 2: So in what way is the current regime running a

2119
01:48:22,812 --> 01:48:23,852
Speaker 2: democratic society?

2120
01:48:25,253 --> 01:48:28,053
Speaker 18: There is not democracy in i Ran. There's absolutely not

2121
01:48:28,133 --> 01:48:31,213
Speaker 18: democracy in Iran. I've never voted in Iran and I

2122
01:48:31,452 --> 01:48:34,972
Speaker 18: never will vote in Iran under this Islamak Republic Regin

2123
01:48:35,133 --> 01:48:40,293
Speaker 18: because everything is predetermined. It's absolutely You're probably getting those

2124
01:48:40,372 --> 01:48:43,532
Speaker 18: messages for people who support the IIGC, who are very

2125
01:48:43,652 --> 01:48:47,893
Speaker 18: fanatic Muslims and probably would really happily live under the

2126
01:48:47,933 --> 01:48:51,893
Speaker 18: Islamak Republic of the run. So there's absolutely zero democracy

2127
01:48:51,973 --> 01:48:55,293
Speaker 18: in Iran. We're talking about I had we were talking

2128
01:48:55,372 --> 01:48:57,852
Speaker 18: about do you do you tell me? Do you call

2129
01:48:57,933 --> 01:49:00,732
Speaker 18: this democracy that when you have a client who's got

2130
01:49:00,772 --> 01:49:04,053
Speaker 18: a case under appeal, then they execute your client when

2131
01:49:04,093 --> 01:49:05,293
Speaker 18: the appeal is pending.

2132
01:49:05,213 --> 01:49:06,572
Speaker 3: Is clearly not?

2133
01:49:06,772 --> 01:49:10,012
Speaker 2: Clearly not k Thank you so much for ringing today.

2134
01:49:10,013 --> 01:49:13,572
Speaker 2: It's been really interesting and there's a lot to unpack,

2135
01:49:13,652 --> 01:49:15,333
Speaker 2: but it's great to have the conversation at.

2136
01:49:15,293 --> 01:49:16,253
Speaker 3: Least thank you.

2137
01:49:16,732 --> 01:49:18,852
Speaker 18: I can I just say that I'm very grateful to

2138
01:49:18,933 --> 01:49:21,173
Speaker 18: you guys for covering this for at least a couple

2139
01:49:21,213 --> 01:49:25,253
Speaker 18: of hours. This is really really important and I'm sure

2140
01:49:25,293 --> 01:49:28,093
Speaker 18: the Iranian community is very very grateful.

2141
01:49:27,772 --> 01:49:28,213
Speaker 4: To your buzz.

2142
01:49:28,492 --> 01:49:30,852
Speaker 3: It's been a fascinating conversation, that's for sure. On and

2143
01:49:30,893 --> 01:49:33,053
Speaker 3: thank you very much for giving us a phone call

2144
01:49:33,213 --> 01:49:35,372
Speaker 3: right back, very surely. It is thirteen to.

2145
01:49:35,412 --> 01:49:39,852
Speaker 1: Four Matt and Tyler with you as your afternoon rolls

2146
01:49:39,933 --> 01:49:43,213
Speaker 1: on Matt Heath and Tyler Adams Afternoons with Koda.

2147
01:49:43,372 --> 01:49:44,412
Speaker 5: Can you've cracked the code?

2148
01:49:44,492 --> 01:49:47,133
Speaker 3: Please go to codes every Day News Talks. There'd be

2149
01:49:47,532 --> 01:49:51,173
Speaker 3: there's eleven to four. Plenty of techs have come through

2150
01:49:51,572 --> 01:49:54,372
Speaker 3: over the last two hours. Yeah, don't forget people with

2151
01:49:54,452 --> 01:49:56,173
Speaker 3: family and Iran can't talk freely.

2152
01:49:56,372 --> 01:49:58,452
Speaker 2: Cheers Jeff. That might be why a lot of stuff

2153
01:49:58,532 --> 01:50:00,572
Speaker 2: isn't getting out of there. No courage of Iran and

2154
01:50:00,612 --> 01:50:02,692
Speaker 2: New Zealand because the key with gyalists only work from

2155
01:50:02,692 --> 01:50:04,333
Speaker 2: home with their trousers off. I'm not sure if I

2156
01:50:04,333 --> 01:50:06,652
Speaker 2: can prove that we've got a whole a lot of

2157
01:50:06,732 --> 01:50:09,892
Speaker 2: journalists work in the office here and they do generally

2158
01:50:09,933 --> 01:50:10,532
Speaker 2: wear their trousers.

2159
01:50:11,053 --> 01:50:11,972
Speaker 3: Yeah most of the time.

2160
01:50:12,013 --> 01:50:14,333
Speaker 2: Well the ones that wear trousers, yeah, some of them.

2161
01:50:14,333 --> 01:50:17,612
Speaker 2: We're all different kinds of clothing. Sometimes Tyler doesn't wear

2162
01:50:17,612 --> 01:50:20,612
Speaker 2: his trousers. That he's not a journalist. People say, what

2163
01:50:20,692 --> 01:50:23,053
Speaker 2: has Trump done? He sent to carrier battle fleets the

2164
01:50:23,093 --> 01:50:27,052
Speaker 2: region more than the rest of the world. This Texas says.

2165
01:50:27,572 --> 01:50:30,372
Speaker 2: People in America are like US. They are originally from UK,

2166
01:50:30,612 --> 01:50:33,652
Speaker 2: have similar religions and more like US kiwis. I think

2167
01:50:33,692 --> 01:50:36,492
Speaker 2: that is why we think and care more about what

2168
01:50:36,652 --> 01:50:40,532
Speaker 2: is happening in the US. I mean, it does also

2169
01:50:40,652 --> 01:50:43,772
Speaker 2: help that the US just pumps out content. It exists

2170
01:50:43,812 --> 01:50:46,892
Speaker 2: to pump content. So if you if you want content content,

2171
01:50:47,013 --> 01:50:49,692
Speaker 2: every single thing that happens in America is filmed, then

2172
01:50:49,732 --> 01:50:54,452
Speaker 2: commented on, then posted, then memed then joked about stand

2173
01:50:54,532 --> 01:50:55,893
Speaker 2: up comedian will do it. But on it there's just

2174
01:50:55,933 --> 01:51:00,412
Speaker 2: so much content. Absolutely really interesting chat but also really

2175
01:51:00,452 --> 01:51:03,612
Speaker 2: boring with just experts talking. Get some misinformed people on.

2176
01:51:05,692 --> 01:51:07,892
Speaker 2: Misinformed people are great. Yeah, yeah, they had a bit

2177
01:51:07,893 --> 01:51:09,932
Speaker 2: of spice to life. Though we only had two hours

2178
01:51:10,013 --> 01:51:12,213
Speaker 2: so it was very packed. Yeah, we got a few

2179
01:51:12,253 --> 01:51:14,692
Speaker 2: misinformed people on, but you're generally speaking. Going forward, we

2180
01:51:14,692 --> 01:51:17,253
Speaker 2: will try and get experts and misinformed people on.

2181
01:51:17,333 --> 01:51:20,173
Speaker 3: We'll get it more. Fifty to fifty yeah, yeah, and

2182
01:51:20,333 --> 01:51:20,932
Speaker 3: maybe one more.

2183
01:51:21,213 --> 01:51:23,092
Speaker 2: If you want to know what's going on in Iran,

2184
01:51:23,213 --> 01:51:28,852
Speaker 2: watch Tosi TV on YouTube. The Persian people deserve freedoms

2185
01:51:28,973 --> 01:51:30,532
Speaker 2: is the text. Yeah, I mean that's true. If you

2186
01:51:30,572 --> 01:51:32,012
Speaker 2: want to search out there is a lot of footage

2187
01:51:32,013 --> 01:51:35,652
Speaker 2: out there on X and on YouTube. You can look

2188
01:51:35,652 --> 01:51:37,652
Speaker 2: at all and see if you can work it out self. Yes,

2189
01:51:37,732 --> 01:51:41,972
Speaker 2: sorry for it, using your your own your own discretion. Yep,

2190
01:51:42,093 --> 01:51:44,213
Speaker 2: you can find the information if you want to. Right

2191
01:51:44,293 --> 01:51:47,333
Speaker 2: back very shortly. It is nine minutes to four.

2192
01:51:48,253 --> 01:51:51,612
Speaker 1: The big stories, the big issues, the big trends and

2193
01:51:51,973 --> 01:51:52,932
Speaker 1: everything in between.

2194
01:51:53,173 --> 01:51:56,372
Speaker 5: Matt Heath and Taylor Adams Afternoons Used Talks.

2195
01:51:56,213 --> 01:51:59,852
Speaker 3: EDB News Talks ed B. It is five to four.

2196
01:52:00,372 --> 01:52:02,772
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening. What a fantastic chat

2197
01:52:02,812 --> 01:52:05,293
Speaker 2: we've had today. Loved it. It was intense and challenging,

2198
01:52:05,372 --> 01:52:08,013
Speaker 2: but I love that chat, and so thanks so much

2199
01:52:08,053 --> 01:52:10,772
Speaker 2: for winning us for this conversation on our eight hundred

2200
01:52:10,772 --> 01:52:13,053
Speaker 2: and eighty teen to eighty. Tyler and I will be

2201
01:52:13,173 --> 01:52:18,452
Speaker 2: back live for more chat tomorrow from twelve. The Great

2202
01:52:18,572 --> 01:52:22,692
Speaker 2: and Powerful Heather Duplicy Ellen is up next. But right now, Tyler,

2203
01:52:23,253 --> 01:52:26,293
Speaker 2: my good friend, why am I playing this song?

2204
01:52:29,053 --> 01:52:30,293
Speaker 3: Is this Secret Agent Man?

2205
01:52:31,692 --> 01:52:33,692
Speaker 2: It's Secret Agent Man by Johnny Rivers?

2206
01:52:33,812 --> 01:52:37,772
Speaker 3: Yeah, great, shun Is this? This is tenuous? Is this

2207
01:52:37,893 --> 01:52:40,213
Speaker 3: because we had a great chat about AI agents who

2208
01:52:40,253 --> 01:52:42,772
Speaker 3: are gonna do everything for us, take agency away from

2209
01:52:42,853 --> 01:52:44,852
Speaker 3: us and make us useless dumb slugs.

2210
01:52:45,133 --> 01:52:47,772
Speaker 2: That's right, they're booking our movie. The plan is that

2211
01:52:47,812 --> 01:52:50,933
Speaker 2: they'll book our movie tickets, and book our accommodation, and

2212
01:52:51,093 --> 01:52:54,213
Speaker 2: book our trousers and pay for it with our credit cards.

2213
01:52:54,333 --> 01:52:58,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, what a dystopia secret agent men out there? What

2214
01:52:58,253 --> 01:52:59,573
Speaker 3: a tune? Fantastic?

2215
01:53:00,053 --> 01:53:02,772
Speaker 2: All right, you seem busy, will let you go. Thank

2216
01:53:02,772 --> 01:53:05,692
Speaker 2: you so much for listening until tomorrow. Gon my taste

2217
01:53:05,692 --> 01:53:06,412
Speaker 2: a kiwi from.

2218
01:53:06,333 --> 01:53:07,372
Speaker 3: Tyler and I love you.

2219
01:53:07,452 --> 01:53:28,132
Speaker 5: All news talk said, be extra if they don't.

2220
01:53:28,053 --> 01:53:30,372
Speaker 19: Piss around fishing at the beach or sitting on the

2221
01:53:30,492 --> 01:53:33,692
Speaker 19: couch when they should be working. Migrants do the jobs

2222
01:53:33,692 --> 01:53:36,053
Speaker 19: that we kiwis feel that they're too poshed to do

2223
01:53:36,173 --> 01:53:38,852
Speaker 19: in society, don't they. It's hard work, it's honest work,

2224
01:53:38,893 --> 01:53:40,652
Speaker 19: and it needs to be done. Why not let the

2225
01:53:40,692 --> 01:53:44,612
Speaker 19: people who want to work work This country should be

2226
01:53:44,692 --> 01:53:47,492
Speaker 19: filled with ambitious people who want to make the most

2227
01:53:47,572 --> 01:53:50,772
Speaker 19: of it. And that's what FDA's do and I can't

2228
01:53:50,893 --> 01:53:52,452
Speaker 19: understand people who don't.

2229
01:53:52,732 --> 01:53:54,812
Speaker 5: That was a news talk said be extra

2230
01:54:08,732 --> 01:54:11,612
Speaker 1: For more from Newstalk st B, listen live on air

2231
01:54:11,853 --> 01:54:14,492
Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you

2232
01:54:14,612 --> 01:54:17,013
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.