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Speaker 1: Sir John Key is calling for the temperature to be

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Speaker 1: turned down on race relations in this country. He believes

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Speaker 1: that the Treaty Principal's Bill is not going to work

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Speaker 1: and it's wound people up. The bill, of course, has

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Speaker 1: been championed by the ACT Party and the leader David Seymour.

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Speaker 2: Is with us.

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Speaker 1: Now, Hey, David, did you hear John Key this morning?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I did? I did, And I was immediately transported

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Speaker 2: back to twenty sixteen when the biggest issues in New

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Speaker 2: Zealand we should we turn our flag into a tetail?

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Speaker 2: And can John Key get to and is from China

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Speaker 2: to live at Wellington Do? And they were much happier

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Speaker 2: in simpler times, which is why I have fond memories

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Speaker 2: of John. I like John because it's pretty much impossible

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Speaker 2: not to, and I even play charity goldfoot them every year.

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Speaker 2: But I think we've also got to be honest with ourselves.

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Speaker 2: While they were happier and some of the times, many

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Speaker 2: of the problems the government is facing today were accumulating

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Speaker 2: and part of the reason that the people have elected

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Speaker 2: a different government, this time a coalition, as they know

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Speaker 2: that some of these problems actually need to be openly

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Speaker 2: and honestly discussed.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with him moment? I think few of

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Speaker 1: us would agree, But do you agree, would would disagree?

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with him that the temperature needs to

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Speaker 1: be taken down on the race relations stuff at the moment?

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Speaker 2: Well, I certainly object to some of the rhetoric that

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Speaker 2: we even just in recent weeks, particularly about my colleague

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Speaker 2: Karen Schuler. I don't think it's ever acceptable to say

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Speaker 2: that somebody you know is not the type of person

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Speaker 2: for their race or vice versa. It's certainly not acceptable

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Speaker 2: for some journalists to ask the question, maybe users of

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Speaker 2: that because of your policies. I would like to think though,

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Speaker 2: that the way that has done the debate about the Treaty,

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Speaker 2: as we've said, look, this is about what does our

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Speaker 2: founding document rarely mean? How can we ensure that it

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Speaker 2: creates a modern, multi ethnic, liberal democratic society with a

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Speaker 2: place for all? And actually way that the Treaty has

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Speaker 2: been interpreted over the last thirty or forty years by

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Speaker 2: the courts and the White Tanu Tribunal on the Public

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Speaker 2: Service is incompatible with that vision of a liberal democratic

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Speaker 2: society because it says we're all in a partnership between races,

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Speaker 2: and therefore a place in society must depend on our race.

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Speaker 2: There's no successful society like that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, his argument about the Treaty principle's bill is that

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Speaker 1: it's bad policy because we'd be writing down what the

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Speaker 1: principles are, and he compares it to the Constitution of

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Speaker 1: the States, where you know, it may seem like a

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Speaker 1: great idea is to write that principle down now, but

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Speaker 1: in a few hundreds for a few hundred years time,

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Speaker 1: you don't need a gun to defend you against a

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Speaker 1: grizzly bear, and the principle that we write down now

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Speaker 1: may also be kind of incompatible with that time. What

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Speaker 1: do you say to that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I heard that. There was sort of the Davy

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Speaker 2: Crockett diversion and a very entertaining interview. So good on them,

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Speaker 2: and it's we're lucky that we don't have any dangerous

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Speaker 2: grizzly there's here in New Zealand. But to attend to

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Speaker 2: the substance of it, actually that the treaty has been

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Speaker 2: or at least six principles have been defined by all

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Speaker 2: those other groups, the thought the Tribunal, by the public service,

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Speaker 2: by academics. The only people who haven't really had to

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Speaker 2: say is New Zealand is in general and the Treaty

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Speaker 2: principal spell. It's not about changing the treaty. It's about

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Speaker 2: saying these principles they should reflect what the treaty itself said.

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Speaker 2: And if people disagree in two hundred years time, just

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Speaker 2: like America has changed since its founding, then what I'm

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Speaker 2: sure at some point in the next two hundred years

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Speaker 2: people can continue to have the debate. It's a living document.

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Speaker 2: My contribution to it through the Treaty principal spell is

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Speaker 2: I believe that we actually need an open debate for

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Speaker 2: all people, not one that's played out behind closed doors

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Speaker 2: and the courts and the academic saloons and the public

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Speaker 2: service departments. Because actually they've come up with something that

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Speaker 2: says your rights in New Zealand to be consulted or

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Speaker 2: sort of on the board or whatever, depend on who

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Speaker 2: your ancestors, but perhaps not talk.

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Speaker 1: How's it going with Luxean because Luxon has got the

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Speaker 1: ear of John Key. If John Key's saying the stuff publicly,

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Speaker 1: he's saying it privately to the Prime Minister. Are you

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Speaker 1: having difficulty getting this stuff across the line?

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Speaker 2: No, because what I found with Chris is that while

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Speaker 2: he does have a type of relationship and I think

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Speaker 2: he's got a lot of admiration for John, he is

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Speaker 2: his own man and he is very cognizant of the

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Speaker 2: reality of our government is that, you know, it's a

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Speaker 2: three way coalition and therefore we actually need to keep

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Speaker 2: our promises to each other. There are things that National

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Speaker 2: would like Act to do, and Acts would like New

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Speaker 2: Zealand First to do, and New Zealand First would like

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Speaker 2: National to do. So you know, it is a three

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Speaker 2: way coalition, maybe not the three way that we all

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Speaker 2: dreamed of, but it's the one that we're in and therefore,

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Speaker 2: you know, we have to actually make it work. One

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Speaker 2: of those commitments that is essential is getting that Treaty

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Speaker 2: Principles Bill up into Parliament, debating it properly through first reason,

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Speaker 2: and you just never know it might be a little

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Speaker 2: bit more popular than our partners believe, it might further

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Speaker 2: than they thought it may well.

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Speaker 1: Do David, Thank you very much, David. David Seymour, Act

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Speaker 1: Party Leader. I'm gonna have to recover after that three

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Speaker 1: way coming

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