Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.
Speaker 2: There'd be a recent law change is seeing councils given
Speaker 2: the choice do we either hold a binding poll or
Speaker 2: disestablish the marray Wards. Several councilors nation might have made
Speaker 2: the decision to take the issue to referendum and allow
Speaker 2: the people just to decide which they prefer. However, some
Speaker 2: councils have been outspoken in support of Mary Wards, in
Speaker 2: a few going so far as to say they would
Speaker 2: maintain Marie Wards regardless of the outcome of a referendum,
Speaker 2: and Central Hawk's Bay Mayor Alex Walker's reformed firm the
Speaker 2: Mary Ward and she is with me now.
Speaker 3: Good afternoon, Carolder, Good afternoon.
Speaker 2: So what's so special about Marry Wards for you?
Speaker 3: Look, this is a really important moment for our community
Speaker 3: about how do we shape what the future looks like?
Speaker 3: And I've been chewing over this for a number of
Speaker 3: years and done a lot of learning on this, and
Speaker 3: really what I see as the opportunity for us to
Speaker 3: move forward together is to recognize that there is a
Speaker 3: hand up required to a Manifenoa to ensure that they
Speaker 3: can see themselves in the local government system. So that
Speaker 3: we can move forward together.
Speaker 2: Do you think why do you think it's so divisive
Speaker 2: or do you think it's divisive?
Speaker 3: Look, I think there is some reaction in our communities
Speaker 3: that is making it divisive. But what we're trying to
Speaker 3: do is stay pretty open hearted and open minded as
Speaker 3: we're trying to talk about it as a community. And
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be one of the toughest
Speaker 3: things going into the referendum is that government are saying
Speaker 3: we want this to be a local decision, but with
Speaker 3: forty something local councils having this referendum at the same time,
Speaker 3: it's going to really quickly become a national debate influenced
Speaker 3: by national voices, and it will not be about my
Speaker 3: community members talking to my community members. It will become
Speaker 3: a public, national, and media driven debate, which is going
Speaker 3: to be very tough.
Speaker 2: What do you mean media driven debate? We're going to
Speaker 2: be discussing it what here?
Speaker 3: Meaning that there are going to be really clear national
Speaker 3: voices that can capture attention in the media that are
Speaker 3: not necessarily the nuance of the local voice around what
Speaker 3: does it mean for the people in the Central Hawk's
Speaker 3: Bay community or any other local community.
Speaker 2: But isn't it your community will be voting on what
Speaker 2: your community wants, won't it?
Speaker 3: Absolutely based on the conversation that we will try try
Speaker 3: to be having at a local level. And what I'm
Speaker 3: flagging is that because there's so many having it at
Speaker 3: a local level, it'll be very difficult to keep it
Speaker 3: about just what happens at a local level. It will
Speaker 3: be heavily influenced by the collective and the national positions.
Speaker 2: So I'm guessing you're happy that you, yourself and your
Speaker 2: counselors have to present yourself to the polls each electoral
Speaker 2: cycle to win support, aren't you?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: So why isn't that good enough for anyone regardless of
Speaker 2: their race?
Speaker 3: It is absolutely And this is a choice where those
Speaker 3: on the Marii electoral role will actually be able to
Speaker 3: see people that they can vote for based on being
Speaker 3: on the Marii electoral role, just like they do in
Speaker 3: the central elections. And allows us to ensure that there
Speaker 3: is a voice that is very clearly Mary and is
Speaker 3: not being expected to think in that represent representative voice
Speaker 3: about the wider electorates. They can come unapologetically as Marty
Speaker 3: then come to the table, where as a collective, we
Speaker 3: make decisions about everybody in the district for the future.
Speaker 2: Well, hang on, you're just talking about them coming on
Speaker 2: their sort of mari thing, but then talking about how
Speaker 2: you come as a collective and make decisions for everyone.
Speaker 2: What is it? Is it a narrow focus or is
Speaker 2: it a wide focus?
Speaker 3: It's both and that's the nuance of local government. We
Speaker 3: have representatives come from all walks of life around our communities,
Speaker 3: but the power is we come together to govern organizations
Speaker 3: where the whole diversity of viewpoints are so vital to
Speaker 3: get in good decision making, because if we all think
Speaker 3: the same and all have the same background in the
Speaker 3: same skill sets, we're just going to make the same
Speaker 3: old decisions that are just in an echo chamber. We
Speaker 3: need that really strong diversity of voice that clearly reflects
Speaker 3: the community to make great decisions.
Speaker 2: Are you suggesting that the rest of your council is
Speaker 2: just one big blamange of people who are all the same.
Speaker 3: I'm saying that the mardy voice is not clear and
Speaker 3: not strong in the elected and voting voice that sits
Speaker 3: at the table.
Speaker 2: What about Pacific Island Voices and other sort of groups.
Speaker 2: Do you think that there should be allowances made for
Speaker 2: Asian the Asian community or do you think there should
Speaker 2: be seats specifically based on how people identify outside of Maridam.
Speaker 3: Yes, So what we see is people that are looking
Speaker 3: to come onto council. There's all sorts of people representing
Speaker 3: our communities. There is a slightly different perspective though around
Speaker 3: the Marty seats based on te tety or white tonguey
Speaker 3: and that they have a role which is very clear
Speaker 3: in their monofenera status in our communities and it's very
Speaker 3: important that their voice is at the table. There are
Speaker 3: other ways that others can come to the table. I'll
Speaker 3: give you an example. We have just changed our whole
Speaker 3: representation structure, not just a mighty ward where we have
Speaker 3: instead of just having a rural ward and an urban ward,
Speaker 3: we've actually reduced the number of them tho seats from
Speaker 3: four to three and introduced to at large wards to
Speaker 3: make it more accessible for those that don't necessarily identify
Speaker 3: as rural or urban to be standing to be represented
Speaker 3: at council. So we're using all sorts of tools to
Speaker 3: help different people get into the diverse mix required for
Speaker 3: good decision making.
Speaker 2: Where are you at with what happened. What happens if
Speaker 2: the Electric decides that it wants to get rid of
Speaker 2: the mari wards and just have everyone stand as individuals, well.
Speaker 3: That will be the result of the referendum. And there's
Speaker 3: quite a few more than a year to go until
Speaker 3: that decision needs to be made. I think there's going
Speaker 3: to be a lot of conversations at a local and
Speaker 3: a national level about this issue as people get themselves
Speaker 3: informed as to how they might vote in October. It's
Speaker 3: a shame that we have got to this point, particularly
Speaker 3: on this kind of representation, when other kinds of representation
Speaker 3: don't go to a referendum decision. I think that's unfair
Speaker 3: just in itself, but the reality is that's the rules
Speaker 3: that have been given to us, and that's what we're
Speaker 3: going to go into. And very clearly when I went
Speaker 3: to the table personally to make this decision this week,
Speaker 3: to reaffirm had had some really specific conversations with our
Speaker 3: Manasena and our mighty leaders in our community for them
Speaker 3: to be really clear that this was the public conversation
Speaker 3: that we wanted to take on, that they were supportive
Speaker 3: of wanting to take on the conversation.
Speaker 2: I mean it's a sort of very easy vote because
Speaker 2: in a way you can vote to maintain this status
Speaker 2: quo and then leave it up to the referendum.
Speaker 3: Oh that's true. So in Central Hawk's Bay we're one
Speaker 3: of eight councils that have got a slightly nuanced position
Speaker 3: where we had decided to use a mighty ward representation mechanism,
Speaker 3: but it hadn't been put in place at the last election,
Speaker 3: so we don't have a mighty ward seat currently at
Speaker 3: my council table. And what we have done is reaffirmed
Speaker 3: we want to do that in twenty twenty five. We
Speaker 3: will have a mighty ward at twenty twenty five and
Speaker 3: it will be up for the referendum as well, and
Speaker 3: then that will be implemented in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, couldn't you just fulfill the sort of
Speaker 2: the desire or the wish to have and put from
Speaker 2: EWI by having their input on advice on issues and
Speaker 2: having them as consultants. Isn't that something I mean that
Speaker 2: you could do regardless of whether you have the official
Speaker 2: MARRA seats.
Speaker 3: Wards for sure, and look we do that, but I've
Speaker 3: also seen instances where we go and have both conversations
Speaker 3: with our Manifenoa and bring that specific voice in and
Speaker 3: then the council table makes a decision which to go
Speaker 3: in a direction which is against what that voice from
Speaker 3: Mana Fenowa has been. And really clearly the power of
Speaker 3: not just having a say like any other stakeholder, but
Speaker 3: actually participating in the voting and the final decision making
Speaker 3: so that others aren't asserting their view over the top
Speaker 3: of it, they're actually actively in the decision making.
Speaker 2: So if the referendum goes the way of getting disestablishing
Speaker 2: the Maria wards, are you with some of the voices
Speaker 2: within local body politics that have said we're going to
Speaker 2: ignore it and just carry on anyway.
Speaker 3: Oh look, I am the mayor of a small council
Speaker 3: in a rural community. We haven't got the means to
Speaker 3: be off fighting the government. We will take the rules
Speaker 3: as they are written in how we take it forward.
Speaker 3: But it's still it's still a difficult thing to have
Speaker 3: to do. When we were we had been engaging with
Speaker 3: the rules as they were. Now the rules change, we've
Speaker 3: got to engage with them in a different way. It's
Speaker 3: a frustrating place to be in because it's wasting time
Speaker 3: and energy, which is really unfortunate. We've got a huge,
Speaker 3: huge infrastructure issues and we really want to be talking
Speaker 3: about those. Well.
Speaker 2: I guess it's politics, isn't it. But hey, Alex, I
Speaker 2: really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks so much, nice
Speaker 2: to talk to. Yeah, thank you. That's Alex Walker. She's
Speaker 2: the mayor of Central Hawk's Bay. On the referendum, where
Speaker 2: are you at with the ref friendom and the presence
Speaker 2: of Mari Ward seats? I be honest, I thought that
Speaker 2: logically she sort of contradicted this souf a little bit
Speaker 2: about talking about individual voices and then you know the
Speaker 2: voices that were all of the same voice. I mean,
Speaker 2: New Zealand is a diverse country. Here's my quick heart
Speaker 2: take before we go to the course. New Zealand's a
Speaker 2: diverse country. I'm completely over this idea that it's Mari
Speaker 2: versus parkiha and I don't think that the way we
Speaker 2: all get on with each other is what New Zealand
Speaker 2: is like at all. I think we've been befriending each other.
Speaker 2: We've been dating each other, marrying each other, having kids
Speaker 2: together with all sorts of cultures. We're a multicultural society
Speaker 2: and I just think that this debate where we have
Speaker 2: to split things off based on whether you happen to
Speaker 2: be Mari or Pakia is just so divisive, and it's
Speaker 2: in pushing back against that you're accused of being device yourself,
Speaker 2: which is kind of ironic. But I think we are
Speaker 2: much more as New Zealanders, integrated and tolerant of each
Speaker 2: other than political discussions, which have you believe you'd think
Speaker 2: we're at each other's throats all the time, but it
Speaker 2: sounds like that when you listen to Parliament and some
Speaker 2: of the rhetoric that comes out of it. So for me,
Speaker 2: I'd be disestablishing those seats. I think of my hometown.
Speaker 2: Tanya taps all there, who's the mayor and who's of
Speaker 2: Mari descent. I don't think she had to play that
Speaker 2: card in winning the election. All she played was the
Speaker 2: card of trust me. I'm competent, I know what I'm doing,
Speaker 2: and people went, yes, we're with you. So good on Tanya.
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