WEBVTT - Alex Walker: Maori wards are a no-brainer

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks.

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<v Speaker 2>There'd be a recent law change is seeing councils given

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<v Speaker 2>the choice do we either hold a binding poll or

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<v Speaker 2>disestablish the marray Wards. Several councilors nation might have made

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<v Speaker 2>the decision to take the issue to referendum and allow

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<v Speaker 2>the people just to decide which they prefer. However, some

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<v Speaker 2>councils have been outspoken in support of Mary Wards, in

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<v Speaker 2>a few going so far as to say they would

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<v Speaker 2>maintain Marie Wards regardless of the outcome of a referendum,

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<v Speaker 2>and Central Hawk's Bay Mayor Alex Walker's reformed firm the

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<v Speaker 2>Mary Ward and she is with me now.

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<v Speaker 3>Good afternoon, Carolder, Good afternoon.

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<v Speaker 2>So what's so special about Marry Wards for you?

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<v Speaker 3>Look, this is a really important moment for our community

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<v Speaker 3>about how do we shape what the future looks like?

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<v Speaker 3>And I've been chewing over this for a number of

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<v Speaker 3>years and done a lot of learning on this, and

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<v Speaker 3>really what I see as the opportunity for us to

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<v Speaker 3>move forward together is to recognize that there is a

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<v Speaker 3>hand up required to a Manifenoa to ensure that they

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<v Speaker 3>can see themselves in the local government system. So that

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<v Speaker 3>we can move forward together.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think why do you think it's so divisive

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<v Speaker 2>or do you think it's divisive?

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<v Speaker 3>Look, I think there is some reaction in our communities

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<v Speaker 3>that is making it divisive. But what we're trying to

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<v Speaker 3>do is stay pretty open hearted and open minded as

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<v Speaker 3>we're trying to talk about it as a community. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's going to be one of the toughest

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<v Speaker 3>things going into the referendum is that government are saying

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<v Speaker 3>we want this to be a local decision, but with

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<v Speaker 3>forty something local councils having this referendum at the same time,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to really quickly become a national debate influenced

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<v Speaker 3>by national voices, and it will not be about my

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<v Speaker 3>community members talking to my community members. It will become

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<v Speaker 3>a public, national, and media driven debate, which is going

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<v Speaker 3>to be very tough.

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<v Speaker 2>What do you mean media driven debate? We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be discussing it what here?

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<v Speaker 3>Meaning that there are going to be really clear national

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<v Speaker 3>voices that can capture attention in the media that are

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<v Speaker 3>not necessarily the nuance of the local voice around what

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<v Speaker 3>does it mean for the people in the Central Hawk's

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<v Speaker 3>Bay community or any other local community.

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<v Speaker 2>But isn't it your community will be voting on what

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<v Speaker 2>your community wants, won't it?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely based on the conversation that we will try try

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<v Speaker 3>to be having at a local level. And what I'm

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<v Speaker 3>flagging is that because there's so many having it at

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<v Speaker 3>a local level, it'll be very difficult to keep it

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<v Speaker 3>about just what happens at a local level. It will

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<v Speaker 3>be heavily influenced by the collective and the national positions.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm guessing you're happy that you, yourself and your

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<v Speaker 2>counselors have to present yourself to the polls each electoral

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<v Speaker 2>cycle to win support, aren't you?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?

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<v Speaker 2>So why isn't that good enough for anyone regardless of

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<v Speaker 2>their race?

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<v Speaker 3>It is absolutely And this is a choice where those

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<v Speaker 3>on the Marii electoral role will actually be able to

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<v Speaker 3>see people that they can vote for based on being

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<v Speaker 3>on the Marii electoral role, just like they do in

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<v Speaker 3>the central elections. And allows us to ensure that there

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<v Speaker 3>is a voice that is very clearly Mary and is

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<v Speaker 3>not being expected to think in that represent representative voice

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<v Speaker 3>about the wider electorates. They can come unapologetically as Marty

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<v Speaker 3>then come to the table, where as a collective, we

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<v Speaker 3>make decisions about everybody in the district for the future.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, hang on, you're just talking about them coming on

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<v Speaker 2>their sort of mari thing, but then talking about how

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<v Speaker 2>you come as a collective and make decisions for everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it? Is it a narrow focus or is

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<v Speaker 2>it a wide focus?

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<v Speaker 3>It's both and that's the nuance of local government. We

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<v Speaker 3>have representatives come from all walks of life around our communities,

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<v Speaker 3>but the power is we come together to govern organizations

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<v Speaker 3>where the whole diversity of viewpoints are so vital to

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<v Speaker 3>get in good decision making, because if we all think

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<v Speaker 3>the same and all have the same background in the

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<v Speaker 3>same skill sets, we're just going to make the same

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<v Speaker 3>old decisions that are just in an echo chamber. We

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<v Speaker 3>need that really strong diversity of voice that clearly reflects

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<v Speaker 3>the community to make great decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you suggesting that the rest of your council is

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<v Speaker 2>just one big blamange of people who are all the same.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm saying that the mardy voice is not clear and

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<v Speaker 3>not strong in the elected and voting voice that sits

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<v Speaker 3>at the table.

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<v Speaker 2>What about Pacific Island Voices and other sort of groups.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think that there should be allowances made for

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<v Speaker 2>Asian the Asian community or do you think there should

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<v Speaker 2>be seats specifically based on how people identify outside of Maridam.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, So what we see is people that are looking

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<v Speaker 3>to come onto council. There's all sorts of people representing

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<v Speaker 3>our communities. There is a slightly different perspective though around

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<v Speaker 3>the Marty seats based on te tety or white tonguey

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<v Speaker 3>and that they have a role which is very clear

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<v Speaker 3>in their monofenera status in our communities and it's very

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<v Speaker 3>important that their voice is at the table. There are

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<v Speaker 3>other ways that others can come to the table. I'll

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<v Speaker 3>give you an example. We have just changed our whole

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<v Speaker 3>representation structure, not just a mighty ward where we have

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<v Speaker 3>instead of just having a rural ward and an urban ward,

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<v Speaker 3>we've actually reduced the number of them tho seats from

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<v Speaker 3>four to three and introduced to at large wards to

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<v Speaker 3>make it more accessible for those that don't necessarily identify

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<v Speaker 3>as rural or urban to be standing to be represented

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<v Speaker 3>at council. So we're using all sorts of tools to

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<v Speaker 3>help different people get into the diverse mix required for

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<v Speaker 3>good decision making.

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<v Speaker 2>Where are you at with what happened. What happens if

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<v Speaker 2>the Electric decides that it wants to get rid of

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<v Speaker 2>the mari wards and just have everyone stand as individuals, well.

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<v Speaker 3>That will be the result of the referendum. And there's

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<v Speaker 3>quite a few more than a year to go until

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<v Speaker 3>that decision needs to be made. I think there's going

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<v Speaker 3>to be a lot of conversations at a local and

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<v Speaker 3>a national level about this issue as people get themselves

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<v Speaker 3>informed as to how they might vote in October. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a shame that we have got to this point, particularly

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<v Speaker 3>on this kind of representation, when other kinds of representation

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<v Speaker 3>don't go to a referendum decision. I think that's unfair

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<v Speaker 3>just in itself, but the reality is that's the rules

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<v Speaker 3>that have been given to us, and that's what we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to go into. And very clearly when I went

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<v Speaker 3>to the table personally to make this decision this week,

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<v Speaker 3>to reaffirm had had some really specific conversations with our

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<v Speaker 3>Manasena and our mighty leaders in our community for them

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<v Speaker 3>to be really clear that this was the public conversation

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<v Speaker 3>that we wanted to take on, that they were supportive

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<v Speaker 3>of wanting to take on the conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's a sort of very easy vote because

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<v Speaker 2>in a way you can vote to maintain this status

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<v Speaker 2>quo and then leave it up to the referendum.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's true. So in Central Hawk's Bay we're one

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<v Speaker 3>of eight councils that have got a slightly nuanced position

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<v Speaker 3>where we had decided to use a mighty ward representation mechanism,

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<v Speaker 3>but it hadn't been put in place at the last election,

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<v Speaker 3>so we don't have a mighty ward seat currently at

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<v Speaker 3>my council table. And what we have done is reaffirmed

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<v Speaker 3>we want to do that in twenty twenty five. We

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<v Speaker 3>will have a mighty ward at twenty twenty five and

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<v Speaker 3>it will be up for the referendum as well, and

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<v Speaker 3>then that will be implemented in twenty twenty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, couldn't you just fulfill the sort of

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<v Speaker 2>the desire or the wish to have and put from

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<v Speaker 2>EWI by having their input on advice on issues and

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<v Speaker 2>having them as consultants. Isn't that something I mean that

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<v Speaker 2>you could do regardless of whether you have the official

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<v Speaker 2>MARRA seats.

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<v Speaker 3>Wards for sure, and look we do that, but I've

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<v Speaker 3>also seen instances where we go and have both conversations

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<v Speaker 3>with our Manifenoa and bring that specific voice in and

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<v Speaker 3>then the council table makes a decision which to go

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<v Speaker 3>in a direction which is against what that voice from

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<v Speaker 3>Mana Fenowa has been. And really clearly the power of

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<v Speaker 3>not just having a say like any other stakeholder, but

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<v Speaker 3>actually participating in the voting and the final decision making

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<v Speaker 3>so that others aren't asserting their view over the top

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<v Speaker 3>of it, they're actually actively in the decision making.

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<v Speaker 2>So if the referendum goes the way of getting disestablishing

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<v Speaker 2>the Maria wards, are you with some of the voices

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<v Speaker 2>within local body politics that have said we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>ignore it and just carry on anyway.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh look, I am the mayor of a small council

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<v Speaker 3>in a rural community. We haven't got the means to

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<v Speaker 3>be off fighting the government. We will take the rules

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<v Speaker 3>as they are written in how we take it forward.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's still it's still a difficult thing to have

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<v Speaker 3>to do. When we were we had been engaging with

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<v Speaker 3>the rules as they were. Now the rules change, we've

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<v Speaker 3>got to engage with them in a different way. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a frustrating place to be in because it's wasting time

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<v Speaker 3>and energy, which is really unfortunate. We've got a huge,

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<v Speaker 3>huge infrastructure issues and we really want to be talking

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<v Speaker 3>about those. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess it's politics, isn't it. But hey, Alex, I

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<v Speaker 2>really appreciate your time this afternoon. Thanks so much, nice

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<v Speaker 2>to talk to. Yeah, thank you. That's Alex Walker. She's

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<v Speaker 2>the mayor of Central Hawk's Bay. On the referendum, where

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<v Speaker 2>are you at with the ref friendom and the presence

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<v Speaker 2>of Mari Ward seats? I be honest, I thought that

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<v Speaker 2>logically she sort of contradicted this souf a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about talking about individual voices and then you know the

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<v Speaker 2>voices that were all of the same voice. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>New Zealand is a diverse country. Here's my quick heart

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<v Speaker 2>take before we go to the course. New Zealand's a

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<v Speaker 2>diverse country. I'm completely over this idea that it's Mari

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<v Speaker 2>versus parkiha and I don't think that the way we

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<v Speaker 2>all get on with each other is what New Zealand

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<v Speaker 2>is like at all. I think we've been befriending each other.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been dating each other, marrying each other, having kids

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<v Speaker 2>together with all sorts of cultures. We're a multicultural society

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<v Speaker 2>and I just think that this debate where we have

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<v Speaker 2>to split things off based on whether you happen to

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<v Speaker 2>be Mari or Pakia is just so divisive, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>in pushing back against that you're accused of being device yourself,

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<v Speaker 2>which is kind of ironic. But I think we are

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<v Speaker 2>much more as New Zealanders, integrated and tolerant of each

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<v Speaker 2>other than political discussions, which have you believe you'd think

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<v Speaker 2>we're at each other's throats all the time, but it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like that when you listen to Parliament and some

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<v Speaker 2>of the rhetoric that comes out of it. So for me,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be disestablishing those seats. I think of my hometown.

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<v Speaker 2>Tanya taps all there, who's the mayor and who's of

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<v Speaker 2>Mari descent. I don't think she had to play that

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<v Speaker 2>card in winning the election. All she played was the

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<v Speaker 2>card of trust me. I'm competent, I know what I'm doing,

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<v Speaker 2>and people went, yes, we're with you. So good on Tanya.

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<v Speaker 1>For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News

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