1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. New Zealand's 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 2: Parliament is a house of chaos. At least that's how 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: our own Deputy Prime Minister described the debating chamber last week. 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: The sea bomb was dropped in Parliament last week by 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: Brook van Velden, quoting a stuff column by Andrea Vance 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 2: that was criticizing the government's changes to pay equity. 9 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: It's muddied an already. 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: Dirty debate over women's pay that is set to overshadow 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: the budget this year, and at the same time Debati 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: Maldi's co leaders have been threatened with suspension from parliament 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: dropped three weeks over last year's headline, making Hucker today 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: on the front page to help us make sense of 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: all the chaos, We're joined by News Talk ZB political 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: editor Jason Wolves. Jason Winston Peters has called it a 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: house of chaos. Audrey Young wrote that it has been 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: an appalling fortnight. 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: How would you describe it? 20 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 3: Unprecedented would be the word that I would describe it. 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: On many levels. I mean, obviously we haven't seen the 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: sea bomb used in the House like that. There was 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 3: one time where I think David Carter might have used 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 3: it accidentally, but using it in the way that Brook 25 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: van Velden did certainly unprecedented. She didn't call another member 26 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 3: of the Sea words. She was using it, or was 27 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 3: quoting from a newspaper opinion piece which used well in 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: seed dot dot dot. We can all figure out what 29 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: it was that the columnist actually meant there, but very unprecedented. 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: And Winston Peters, you know, a stickler for the rules, 31 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 3: doesn't like to be a sweary fairy, was obviously a 32 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: little bit aggrieved by this. But I think it is 33 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: a touch ironic because Winston Peters does fly very close 34 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: to the sun when it comes to Speaker's rulings. I mean, 35 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: at any given time on any given Thursday, when he's 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 3: answering for the Prime Minister, Kieran McNulty, who is the 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: Shadow Leader of the House for Labor, will stand up 38 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 3: and question elements of what it is that Winston Peters 39 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 3: is doing. For example, he quite often likes to use 40 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: government questions to attack the opposition, which is out of 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: order in the House. So it is a bit ironic 42 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 3: for Winston Peters to be kicking up such a stink 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 3: over this when he is one of the one of 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 3: the greatest offenders when it comes to the standards of 45 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: the house at the moment. 46 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 4: I disagree with the comments made, and particularly the note 47 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 4: of the use of the term backhanded, which refers to 48 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 4: Andrea Advance's article which was quoted from this weekend. And 49 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 4: I do not agree with the clearly gendered and patronizing 50 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 4: language that Andrea Advance used to reduce your cabinet ministers 51 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 4: to girl bosses, height squads, references to girl meth and. 52 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't think the sea word being said in 53 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 2: the house was on my bingo card for this week, 54 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: but it wasn't in the newspaper either. 55 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 3: Oh well, I mean it was just c dot dot 56 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 3: dot in the newspaper. But Brooke van Velden afterwards we 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 3: questioned her about her use of the word and she 58 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: could have just said the sea word, but she argued 59 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: that media wouldn't have covered it if she had just 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 3: said the sea word, and I do disagree with her. 61 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: We would have covered it nevertheless, But I do agree 62 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: in the fact that it wouldn't have made such a 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: splash because it was such an unprecedented moment. And I'll 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: tell you what. I was sitting in the press gallery 65 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: when it happened, and as soon as she said the word, 66 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: the oxygen just evaporated out of the place and everybody 67 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: kind of took a backward step on that one. So 68 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 3: she does have a point. It did certainly did capture 69 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: people's attention, that's for sure. 70 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 2: So if we move on to the issues of the week, 71 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 2: can we start by cutting to the facts on these 72 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 2: pay equity changes. What has the government done here with 73 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: this change in legislation. 74 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 3: Well, they've essentially changed the law and they did it 75 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: under urgency in the House to kind of change the 76 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: scope of how pay equity is dealt with. Their argument 77 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 3: has always been throughout this whole the whole saga is 78 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 3: that the original pay equity legislation was was too broad 79 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: and it led to and you would have heard this 80 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 3: phrase being thrown around quite often, people like library workers 81 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 3: being compared to fisheries officers. And because of that, the 82 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 3: unions and labor have been using that to ratchet it 83 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: up people's pay where it wasn't based on sex based discrimination. 84 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 3: So the government have clawed it back somewhat and said 85 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 3: that we're going to refocus the law so it is 86 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: just specifically focused on this issue of sex based discriminations. 87 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: And the unions and the lab and the Labor Party 88 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 3: and the Greens have jumped on on top of this 89 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: and said that you're quote cutting women's pay, and there's 90 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 3: been quite a bit of back and forth over that. 91 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 2: And is that because most of the claims that are 92 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 2: being thrown out by women, the thirty. 93 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: Three pay equity claims the moment in there, essentially, I 94 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 3: mean a lot of them are having to be reset. 95 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: And the argument from the opposition is, and this is 96 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: what Chris Hipkins said, is that because the future pay 97 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 3: packet of the women in question through some of these 98 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 3: settlements would be lower because of what the government is doing, 99 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 3: it does mean that insofar as the fact of their 100 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 3: pay in the future, that will be being cut. So 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: it means that it is a cut from women's pay. 102 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 3: Now the National Party have listened to his explanation on 103 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: this and say that it just doesn't make sense and 104 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: it doesn't actually pass the sniff test when it comes 105 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: to this blanket and quite definitive statement that the government 106 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 3: is cutting women's pay. So there has been quite a 107 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 3: back and forth over the semantics of this issue. I 108 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: say semantics. I think the people involved probably think that 109 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 3: it's a lot more than that. 110 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: This debate. 111 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 2: For a little while there felt like it was going 112 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: well for labor and the left. But then of course 113 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: the Andrea Vance column for stuff with the sea word 114 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: was written referring to those six female government ministers as 115 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: girl bosses as well. And we all know what the 116 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: sea word is, Like you said, we don't need to 117 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 2: say it. That's just hijacked this whole debate now to 118 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: make it one big debate about misogyny towards politicians kind 119 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 2: of hasn't it? 120 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely? I mean if we spent the last week 121 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 3: with the unions and labor basically at every opportunity they 122 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: could get talk about how the government was cutting women's pay, 123 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 3: and I think it Gimmy Anderson at one point was 124 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: asked about the government's policy to crush cars, and she 125 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: brought it back to women's pay by saying the government's 126 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 3: better than crushing women's dreams than they are crushing cars. 127 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 3: So they were really really on a one track sort 128 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 3: of mind over this issue, and they were developing quite 129 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: a lot of momentum and then the column hit and 130 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 3: then Nikola Willis wrote an article in response, essentially saying 131 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: this a sexist and then she was able to lay 132 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: out her argument against all the criticism, and then that's 133 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 3: where it kind of took off. Now where the Labor 134 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 3: Party went wrong is that the question in the House 135 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 3: that led to the now infamous sea bomb was quoting 136 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: directly from that piece in the Sunday Star Times. Labor 137 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 3: weren't shying away from it. It was the question on notice, 138 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 3: which means that we get a copy of all the 139 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: oral questions that are going to be asked during a 140 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: parliamentary sitting day. And if it's on notice, it means 141 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 3: that the government party can see it and they can 142 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: prepare for it. So it wasn't an accident. This was 143 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 3: a pre planned tactic by the Labor Party that backfired significantly. 144 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 3: I mean everyone everyone from the I mean Helen Clark 145 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: called out the comment, but yet the Labor Party still 146 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: decided that they would use it in a oral question, 147 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: which meant that the government had yet another opportunity to 148 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: not address the issue of pay equity, but to address 149 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 3: the issue of misogyny. And it turned the whole argument 150 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: around No one is talking about pay equity anymore. Everybody 151 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: is talking about misogyny. And as sad as it is 152 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 3: and as horribly callous as it sounds, that's good for 153 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 3: the government because it means that they're not focusing on 154 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 3: what was quite a damaging issue for them. They're now 155 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: talking about something that they actually looked like they're the 156 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 3: victims of. 157 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: The Other big controversy at the moment is around the 158 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: Privileges Committee and Tibati Moldi. The Committee has ruled that 159 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: Titi and Debbie Nadewa Paka be suspended for three weeks 160 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 2: without payover last year's huka during the Treaty Principle's Bill debate. 161 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: Hannah Ralfit the Mighty Clark got one week. 162 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: So this is a harsh punah and it's the harshest 163 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: ever in Parliament's history. 164 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: Does it feel like an overreaction, Well. 165 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: Technically it's not the punishment yet. What Jerry Browne was 166 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 3: very careful to do when he made his ruling on 167 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 3: Thursday was to say that Parliament will have the opportunity 168 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: to debate this on Tuesday and it will be up 169 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: to parliamentarians whether they accept the recommendations of the Privileges Committee, 170 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 3: which you quite rightly point out it was seven days 171 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: for Hannah Arapti, Mighty Clark and twenty one days for 172 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 3: Debbie Natty Whapacker and at Our Hitt. And it's an 173 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,599 Speaker 3: unprecedented debate because for a number of reasons, he's allowing 174 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: members to make various different changes to the recommendations of 175 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 3: the Privileges Committee. So members could get up and they 176 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: could ask Judith Collins, the chair of the committee. They 177 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: can say that this is far too excessive. We want 178 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 3: the punishment to actually be maybe four maybe five days. 179 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 3: The other thing is that it is going to be 180 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 3: essentially a limitless debate. Jerry Browne ruled this. Members can 181 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 3: speak a number of times and there's not a time 182 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 3: limit on, however how much they want to speak, which 183 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: is the debate could go on for as long, I mean, 184 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: how long is a piece of strength te Party Marty members. 185 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 3: If Degree members want to keep getting up and making 186 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 3: various different points, they're absolutely free to do that. And 187 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 3: that comes on a budget week that's happening on Thursday. 188 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 3: So the government ministers are quite worried that the House's 189 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 3: time is going to be used debating this when the 190 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 3: budget is just on our doorstep. And I can understand 191 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 3: why the likes of Judith Collins and Shane Jones, who 192 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: made the point in the House on Thursday that Tea 193 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: Party Marty have already had the opportunity to front up 194 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 3: to the Privileges Committee. They've had multiple opportunities to front 195 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: up to the Privileges Committee to to lend their side 196 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: of the story to what the deliberations might be. At 197 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 3: every opportunity they've chosen not to do that. Not only this, 198 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 3: they've also decided and they've also chosen to do things 199 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: like some of the confidential recommendations of the committee on 200 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: Facebook in the form of a joke poll to say 201 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: how long do you think we're going to be banned for? 202 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 3: And how would be White Titty went as far as 203 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: calling it a silly little committee and showing absolute contempt 204 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: for the Privilege's Committee. So you can understand why there 205 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 3: would be some members that are feeling quite upset at 206 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 3: the fact that the Privileges Committee has been meeting for 207 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: some time to make this determination, and Jerry Brownlee is 208 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: giving members another opportunity to say, well, hang on a second, 209 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 3: is this too harsh of a punishment. 210 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: Well, it puts the government between a rock and a 211 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: hard place, right because, on one hand, particularly from a 212 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 2: global level, given how viral that Harker video went last year, 213 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 2: if you dish out a harsh punishment, you could get 214 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 2: global you know, discontent right. On another hand, it could 215 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: create a precedent. I mean something like doing that in 216 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 2: Parliament is unprecedented, like you said, and what's to stop 217 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: someone else from doing it again? 218 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 3: Well, the problem that Jerry Browne has and government has 219 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 3: is that the nuances of the punishment and the reason 220 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 3: behind it have been completely lost. They're not being punished 221 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 3: because they did a harker in the house. You're allowed 222 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 3: to do hawkers in the house. They're being punished because 223 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 3: they did a harker during the voting session, which you're 224 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 3: not allowed to do it. It's completely off the table. 225 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 3: And also they approached David Seymour, the leader of the 226 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 3: act Party while they were doing it, in a way 227 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: that the Privileges Committee has ruled was an intimidating way. 228 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 3: So those are the reasons why they may be suspended. 229 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: But that nuance is going to be lost when you 230 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 3: read the BBC and CNN and all these other outlets 231 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 3: that carried the initial video of the Harker, they're just 232 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 3: going to say they got banned from Parliament because they 233 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: did the Harker, which is not strictly speaking true. So 234 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: there is a problem there, But that ship has already 235 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: essentially sailed. That is how this is going to look 236 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 3: to an international audience. Closer to home, I think the 237 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 3: nuances have been well demonstrated and well communicated to us 238 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 3: on on a more domestic level, But there is a 239 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 3: problem with the president. I mean, if this goes through 240 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 3: and there is a lesser punishment, what's stopping the likes 241 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: of Julia and Jena the next time when she's before 242 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: the Privileges Committee saying, hang on a second. I know 243 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: the Privileges Committee has ruled, but why don't we have 244 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 3: another debate, for a limitless debate to say, well, shouldn't 245 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 3: my punishment be lesser? In saying that though twenty one 246 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: days is unprecedented, Jerry Browne said, the last longest time 247 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: somebody has been suspended from the House was three days, 248 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 3: so twenty one days is enormous. So he feels like 249 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 3: it might be a little bit too strict. But Judith 250 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 3: Collins says, well, maybe this will teach them not to 251 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: act like this again. 252 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 5: I think the whole wooding and the attitude how personally 253 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 5: offended they are by us just actually from our gut 254 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 5: to the call piece of legislation that's been in here. 255 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: Long story, Shoore. 256 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 6: I think it just shows us exactly what they think 257 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 6: about us set They still see us as a bunch 258 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 6: of unruling people that they need to put back into order. 259 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: It does feel like multi issues are remaining a point 260 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: of contention in the House. A review into the Way 261 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 2: Tonguey Tribunal has begun as part of the National Ends 262 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: at First Coalition deal. The tribunal is urgently reviewing Acts, 263 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: Regulatory Standards Bill, and last week Labor MP Willie Jackson 264 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 2: was booted from the debating chamber while discussing multi issues. 265 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: Now, I'm not sitting down. I'm not sitting down. 266 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 3: I'm not sitting down. 267 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: You don't you don't walk over our copupperas it suits you, 268 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 2: mister speaker. 269 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: Leave the house. Retrojection down, Leave the house, mister Jackson. 270 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 3: Leave the house. 271 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: Mister Jackson, leave the house, mister Jackson. 272 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: I think some people thought the treaty Principle's Bill being 273 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: voted down would be the end of it to some degree. 274 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: But it feels like it's just getting started, though, isn't it. 275 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what some commentators said. Acting David Seymour wanted. 276 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 3: Well, I mean exactly, and I think that we saw 277 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 3: with the Treaty Principal's Bill, the every time it's in 278 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 3: the news, Tea Party Marty's vote goes really high, and 279 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 3: when it's not and they're a little bit more quieter, 280 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 3: their vote tends to go down. So of course they'll 281 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: be looking to bring these sorts of issues back to 282 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 3: the fore. I mean, other issues in terms of the 283 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 3: Regulatory Standard Bill nowhere near as big as the Treaty 284 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 3: Principle's Bill, but you can be sure as heck to 285 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: count on TI Party, Marty and other political parties really 286 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: really making these issues a thorn in the government's side 287 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: because politically it plays well for them. 288 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 2: And finally, Jason, do you think the chaos will come 289 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: down at any point or is it just about to 290 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 2: ramp up, particularly considering the Seymour Peters deputy switchover is 291 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: happening very very soon, It's going to ramp up. 292 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 3: It'll be ramping up until election day. I mean, this 293 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 3: issue isn't going to go away quietly. The big question 294 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: mark that is hanging over Parliament right now is what 295 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 3: happens next. I mean, do you think that Debbie Nardi, 296 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 3: Wapaka and Atrawiti Waititi are going to accept this and 297 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: just say okay and just go away. I don't think that. 298 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: I think that they're going to be making a fuss 299 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 3: and you know, all power to them to be able 300 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: to do that. That is their prerogative. But it's going 301 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: to be an uncomfortable time for parliamentarians and especially for 302 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 3: Speaker Jerry Brownly as he looks into what is essentially 303 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 3: uncharted territory here. 304 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: Where's Luxon in this debate? 305 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 3: Luxon has been very absent from this, and I think 306 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 3: it's by design. The National Party don't want him caught 307 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: up in any of this this situation because you know, 308 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 3: it reflects negatively on his brand and the National Party's brand, 309 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 3: So I wouldn't expect to see him being very front 310 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: foot over this issue between now and the election at all. 311 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Jason, No problem at all. That's 312 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 2: it for this episode of the Front Page. You can 313 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at 314 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 2: enzedherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is produced 315 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 2: by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also our 316 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: sound engineer. 317 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 318 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 319 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look 320 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 2: behind the headlines.