Speaker 1: The ZM podcast Network. Hi guys, welcome back to what
Speaker 1: is the last episode of season three, Hopes Were All
Speaker 1: the podcast. I can't believe I'm saying that we've done
Speaker 1: another season already. I can't even believe that I got
Speaker 1: to do three seasons. But thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on this journey with me. If there's any of
Speaker 1: the episodes that you've missed it all, please go back
Speaker 1: and listen. The season has been filled with some of
Speaker 1: the most incredible people, some phenomenal stories. We've talked about
Speaker 1: such a wide range of different things, and I really
Speaker 1: think even if you personally aren't going through what is
Speaker 1: talked about in the episode right now, it's so educational
Speaker 1: and raw and kind of throughout the whole season, the
Speaker 1: stories have just been amazing, and I just want to
Speaker 1: thank you all for your support so far on this
Speaker 1: podcast and on the season. It's been so it's been
Speaker 1: so overwhelming. I can't believe that I get to do
Speaker 1: this and there I get trusted with people's stories and
Speaker 1: to be able to share them and share just a
Speaker 1: little bit more hope in the world where everything is
Speaker 1: going all there's so much happening at the moment and
Speaker 1: for people to be willing to speak and to share
Speaker 1: and to have these conversations and listen to these conversations
Speaker 1: means everything. And as always, if anything in this triggers you,
Speaker 1: please at any time you can stop, take a break,
Speaker 1: come back to it, or talk to someone if you
Speaker 1: need to. You're not alone. The bravest thing that you
Speaker 1: can do right now is to talk to someone, is
Speaker 1: to ask for help, whether that's from a friend, a
Speaker 1: family member, or if you don't know who to talk to,
Speaker 1: then if you live in Altieroa here you can call
Speaker 1: or text one seven three seven at any time to
Speaker 1: talk to a train counselor or if you live overseas,
Speaker 1: go to dub dub dub dot the Voices of Hope
Speaker 1: dot org for a list of international helplines. Remember that
Speaker 1: no matter what it is that you're facing, no matter
Speaker 1: what it is that you're going through, that in all things,
Speaker 1: hope is real and change as possible. I wanted to
Speaker 1: end the season by doing something that I've done the
Speaker 1: last two season, which is a ask me anything, bringing
Speaker 1: in my wonderful friend. All of you will know her
Speaker 1: by now, the one, the only, the very tall Genevieve Mohra,
Speaker 1: thank you, Hello, thank you for having me the giraffe.
Speaker 1: The draft. You are literally a draft. I'm literally like
Speaker 1: I just and people always say when they meet us
Speaker 1: in person, yep, they're like, they always think I'm taller
Speaker 1: than I am. They're like, you're very short, but you
Speaker 1: are very tall.
Speaker 2: Well, you're so tall?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't tell right now, obviously as we're sitting down,
Speaker 1: you are. You're a bab tall and I'm very stroked.
Speaker 1: I have you on here. I put up a question
Speaker 1: box that there was thousands of questions that came through.
Speaker 1: So we're not going to get to everyone's questions today,
Speaker 1: but we're going to do as many as we possibly can.
Speaker 1: There's one there I'm gonna say immediately caught my eye
Speaker 1: that we must start with, and then we can have
Speaker 1: a little of banter before we get really into the
Speaker 1: other ones. If you were a potato products, Brown's Hot Chips,
Speaker 1: et cetera, what would you be?
Speaker 2: And why there is such a story behind potatoes and
Speaker 2: jazz and I oh, oh, I'm gonna go with.
Speaker 1: The French fry.
Speaker 2: Why they're tall that long, crunchy on the outside, soft
Speaker 2: on the inside, If it loves a French fry not Yeah,
Speaker 2: but are you like a.
Speaker 1: Like a like a real skinny French fry or.
Speaker 2: Like a thick I'm a burger fuel French fry. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: so that's not a French fry. Oh that's it.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call that a French fry because it's thick,
Speaker 1: hot chip, hot ship. That's what we call it in
Speaker 1: New Zealand.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: It's a hot hot ship and then the thin ones
Speaker 1: a free Yeah, you're probably right, Yeah, a hot chip.
Speaker 1: I wanted. Yeah, I want to know the definition for
Speaker 1: Do Americans call it hot chips? No? No, what do
Speaker 1: they call it? Fries? All of them? It's very valiquisiou.
Speaker 1: They're not all fries. They're not what would you be.
Speaker 2: Mesh because that uh.
Speaker 1: Oh you know, no, I don't know. I mean I
Speaker 1: can't say fries because you've said fries. I feel like,
Speaker 1: obviously fries go with everything. What I do really love
Speaker 1: is like a stuffed potato. Yeah, I think I'll be
Speaker 1: a stuffed potato one because I'm just full of it.
Speaker 2: I'm full of stuff.
Speaker 1: There's a lot, there's a lot going on. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: so I think I think I'll be a stuffed potato.
Speaker 1: I just love stuff with lots of fillings, lots of fillings.
Speaker 1: I do love stuff. Actually, now I'm hungry. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was hungry beforehand, but now I really just
Speaker 1: want potato. Before I get into a lot of other questions,
Speaker 1: how are you? How you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good. Is that time of the year
Speaker 2: it's all go? But no, I'm happy and healthy. And
Speaker 2: I need to say this because I can't stop staring
Speaker 2: at it. You've met your phone case?
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I do. It's the first thing that
Speaker 1: caught my eye. Case to five bounce cases. I'm a
Speaker 1: sucker for the sticky grips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I need one, to give you one.
Speaker 1: I need to I need to give you more sticky
Speaker 1: grips lessons. If you didn't know, there's another one that
Speaker 1: I just saw here. If you were an animal, what
Speaker 1: would you be? And why? Well obvious I I've told
Speaker 1: the story so many times. Were in Kenya? This girl
Speaker 1: spotted a giraffe from literally like miles miles away and
Speaker 1: sprinted over at by the giraffe.
Speaker 2: We got scent, and we got someone adopted. How does
Speaker 2: that work? Adopted a draffe? Remember you got a sloth
Speaker 2: and I got draft.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I got a sloth man. This loss really for
Speaker 1: those of you who weren't here in the early days
Speaker 1: of when kind of we were first starting, and even
Speaker 1: on social media. For me, I one time said that
Speaker 1: I like sloths, and then suddenly I just got so
Speaker 1: much sloth stuff sent to me.
Speaker 2: And a few adopted sloths. I mean, I still do
Speaker 2: like sloths.
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I mean, I'm I'm you're be
Speaker 1: a dog. I like being at dog parks or like
Speaker 1: beaches is my favorite place in the entire world. Like
Speaker 1: I told the story, coming around the corner right, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, Okay, So where I used to live, we
Speaker 1: live right next to this dog park and we would
Speaker 1: go all the time, and I am the person was
Speaker 1: very obsisted with talks, and I talked to dogs, all
Speaker 1: of the dogs. And as we were walking into the park,
Speaker 1: I saw this dog and I had a little jacket on,
Speaker 1: and so I, without kind of plocking anything, go immediately
Speaker 1: and just go oh, that's a nice jacket to the
Speaker 1: dog in the exact tone, right, not realizing but first
Speaker 1: of all that there is a man who was also
Speaker 1: walking towards me and this dog in the jacket has
Speaker 1: gone behind a bush so you can no longer see.
Speaker 1: And this man is in like a like a rain
Speaker 1: jacket thing, and he just looks at me and is like.
Speaker 2: Y.
Speaker 1: And I made eyes with him like when I'm saying
Speaker 1: the word jacket, and so I'm like, that's a nice jacket.
Speaker 1: And I think this man is like to this day,
Speaker 1: I'm traumatized by it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny that dogs. I like, I'll walk down
Speaker 2: the beach and someone will come to pet my dog
Speaker 2: and I'll be like franky, say hi, Like she's gonna
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, oh hey mate, I'm.
Speaker 1: The same thing. I'm like, say, hey they leap talk.
Speaker 1: Oh no, but they I'm going to say hard on
Speaker 1: them all, every single one of them. I would one
Speaker 1: hundred percent be adult. Do you think dogs and dogs
Speaker 1: dogs and would be friends. I think so. I think
Speaker 1: that'd be a little buddy. I mean we're friends. We're friends. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like a tiny dog and you're a very tool. Okay.
Speaker 1: Like I said, we've got thousands of questions at having SMAD,
Speaker 1: so we're not going to spend too much time just
Speaker 1: bantering around. There is a whole lot that are covering
Speaker 1: a bunch of different topics, but one of them that
Speaker 1: I think is going to be quite prevalent. As a
Speaker 1: school You're here and alter it comes to an end.
Speaker 1: As someone has asked on tips for people leaving school,
Speaker 1: Oh do you have any?
Speaker 2: I think the one thing that comes to mind is
Speaker 2: to focus on your own journey. I think when I
Speaker 2: left school, a lot of my friends were going to
Speaker 2: university and I was at a very different place in
Speaker 2: my life having gone through my you know, my challenges
Speaker 2: as a teenager or a university just wasn't on the
Speaker 2: cards for me, and it wasn't something I was actually
Speaker 2: that interested in doing at that point, and I spent
Speaker 2: time sort of comparing myself, being like should I be
Speaker 2: doing this?
Speaker 1: Should you know?
Speaker 2: Is there a certain way to live life? And I
Speaker 2: think reminding yourself, especially if you've gone through trauma and
Speaker 2: gone through challenges as a teenager, that your life will
Speaker 2: look different and that's okay. Yeah, And to not compare
Speaker 2: yourself to other people. I think also be really proud
Speaker 2: of yourself. Finishing school is a big deal.
Speaker 1: I didn't finish school neither. Yeah. So first of all,
Speaker 1: if you're finishing school and you're like graduating graduate freaking nations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because that's more than than I did. And I also
Speaker 1: think that, you know, coming off the back of everything
Speaker 1: that you've just said as well, is that you don't
Speaker 1: have to have it all forget out. There's so much
Speaker 1: pressure on teenagers, like pretty early on, you've got to
Speaker 1: know what you need to what you want to do
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life because you need to
Speaker 1: not subjects you have to take, and then if you
Speaker 1: don't take these subjects you can't get into university for this.
Speaker 1: Then there's so much pressure and it's so unnecessary because
Speaker 1: your brain is still developing. You don't know what you
Speaker 1: want to do. Some of you will well and you're
Speaker 1: gonna already you know, be on the path, but that's
Speaker 1: not the case for everyone. Give yourself some race. Yeah,
Speaker 1: be proud of yourself that you've done it and it's
Speaker 1: all good, you know. I don't compare yourself to your
Speaker 1: friends and what everyone else is doing, because I mean,
Speaker 1: my few years after high school was spent in hospital
Speaker 1: and so it's gonna look different for everyone. But yeah,
Speaker 1: just don't don't try rush yourself or yeah, compare it's
Speaker 1: probably he's still so young.
Speaker 2: I look back at like I thought I was so old,
Speaker 2: and I was like, your friend, you were a child.
Speaker 2: I really thought I thought I was so old.
Speaker 1: This question I want to see in a moment talking
Speaker 1: about this. Someone has asked how to stop missing the
Speaker 1: sick you? And this is something I think that is
Speaker 1: not discussed enough. When you battle so deeply with mental
Speaker 1: illness and the darkness, it can almost become a part
Speaker 1: of who you believe that you are, and it becomes
Speaker 1: your every day, it becomes your normalody. And when you
Speaker 1: start to heal from that, there is a whole process
Speaker 1: of grief this life that you kind of once knew.
Speaker 1: And I know that for me personally, I lived so
Speaker 1: much in the chaos, in the crisis of so much happening,
Speaker 1: the darkness, and when I didn't have that or when
Speaker 1: I was feeling okay, I didn't know how to deal
Speaker 1: with it, like I didn't know. And I think that
Speaker 1: for someone who grew up the way that I did
Speaker 1: and the kind of beliefs that I had, and feeling
Speaker 1: unlovable and like a burden and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Even you know the fact that when you're really unwell,
Speaker 1: sometimes people will come in and they'll help you and
Speaker 1: there's that kind of feeling to it as well, that
Speaker 1: it makes sense to miss the sick you because for
Speaker 1: so long that was part of your identity. That's all
Speaker 1: that you knew, and everything that you did was basically
Speaker 1: expecting and expecting that this is how things will always be.
Speaker 1: You didn't know that there would be anything different, and
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, for me, it was such
Speaker 1: a process of having to actively choose every day to
Speaker 1: stay in recovery and writing down lists of why, like
Speaker 1: being in recovery is so much better than being unwell,
Speaker 1: and like what are the things that I'm living for
Speaker 1: and what are the things that I now get to do,
Speaker 1: Like the fact I can go and walk down to
Speaker 1: a cafe. Couldn't do that when I was in the
Speaker 1: psyche board. Like, you know, that kind of thing was
Speaker 1: really big for me. But yeah, I just I don't
Speaker 1: think it's it's something that is really talked about hugely
Speaker 1: in this space.
Speaker 2: What about you, Oh, I completely agree with everything you've said.
Speaker 2: I think I kind of want to focus on what
Speaker 2: you said around and sort of the support people, and
Speaker 2: I think it's so important to be there for people,
Speaker 2: you know, not just when they're at their worst. But
Speaker 2: when they're best, you know they're at their best, because
Speaker 2: I think, like you said, when you're struggling, there can
Speaker 2: be these people, or if you're lucky enough, you have
Speaker 2: people that rally around you, and you can almost miss
Speaker 2: that aspect of having people there for you. And you
Speaker 2: don't need to be sick to have people there and
Speaker 2: love and care and support you. But I think a
Speaker 2: big thing that I've discussed a lot recently and I'm
Speaker 2: still trying to work through is the grief for the
Speaker 2: years that I lost to my illness. I think it
Speaker 2: affects me now than ever when I look back and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm thirty now, like I missed a good
Speaker 2: chunk of my teen years and I will never ever
Speaker 2: ever get back, and I'm mad about that, and I'm
Speaker 2: sad about that. But I saw something recently and I
Speaker 2: think I shared it all my socials around You know,
Speaker 2: you were surviving in the only way you knew how,
Speaker 2: and I think that's really important to remember.
Speaker 1: You can choose this. It's not your fault.
Speaker 2: It is understandable, and in many ways, if you missed
Speaker 2: that sick version of you, because like you said, it's
Speaker 2: all you.
Speaker 1: Knew in that moment. I also think I really want
Speaker 1: to take a moment to validate people that specifically young
Speaker 1: people that have been admitted into hospital with the mental
Speaker 1: illness into psychiatric wards. There's this common thing that happens
Speaker 1: and at the time it can be really confusing and
Speaker 1: you can get really angry about it where people want
Speaker 1: to stay in hospital, and that happens because, like you
Speaker 1: just said, that's where you feel you're heard. People understand
Speaker 1: that you're struggling. People are there that help. When you've
Speaker 1: got the nurses that are there that are there in
Speaker 1: your darkest moments and they're kind of helping you get
Speaker 1: through that. When you get out of that and suddenly
Speaker 1: it's you having to do this again, you can miss
Speaker 1: that that kind of full wrap around support of it.
Speaker 1: And you know, we both have been in psych wards ourselves,
Speaker 1: but also have been you know, we talk and hang
Speaker 1: out sometimes in the adolescent warden. You sometimes see those
Speaker 1: patterns of when things are getting bad again and you
Speaker 1: don't quite know how to ask for help, but you
Speaker 1: know that if you escalate, then I can end up
Speaker 1: back here and then people will know there are things
Speaker 1: that you can do. It doesn't have to be that way.
Speaker 1: And while you think that's the only place that you
Speaker 1: can get that love and support and feel heard and
Speaker 1: feel seen, it's not. And you know, been able to
Speaker 1: ask for help earlier before it gets to that point.
Speaker 1: And oh, it's just it breaks my heart knowing how
Speaker 1: much of a pattern that that can become, and knowing
Speaker 1: that was a pattern for me as well, that it's yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Know, I hear you, and I think I felt I
Speaker 2: completely relate to that. I felt at that time safe
Speaker 2: in the hospital. I felt really really safe and supported,
Speaker 2: and every time I was discharged, you know, part of
Speaker 2: my mind was like, how do I end up back
Speaker 2: here because this is where I feel, you know, like
Speaker 2: I get the support I need and I guess something
Speaker 2: that helped me. And again, you know, it wasn't always
Speaker 2: sort of easy listening to this, but I had to
Speaker 2: remind myself constantly that I couldn't live in hospital for
Speaker 2: either that at some point I was going to have
Speaker 2: to face that uncomfortable and work hard at home and
Speaker 2: break those patterns.
Speaker 1: I remember, we have talked a lot and you're kind
Speaker 1: of explaining it a lot to me as well, that
Speaker 1: specifically when it comes to eating disorders, that there becomes
Speaker 1: this mindset or there's almost goal to get into hospital
Speaker 1: because then people know that you're sick enough, or like
Speaker 1: you have to you know, lose a certain amount of
Speaker 1: weight or whatever it maybe you have to be sick enough.
Speaker 1: I'm not sick enough unless I'm there. Can you explain, like,
Speaker 1: talk to people who are struggling with eating disorders that
Speaker 1: are feeling like that, I'm not sick enough, I have
Speaker 1: to be sicker. What was you saying?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean eing disorders are incredibly complex, and
Speaker 2: I think it's important to acknowledge that not everyone with
Speaker 2: an eating disorder. Actually a smaller proportion of people with
Speaker 2: an ending disorder are going to be medically diagnosed is underweight.
Speaker 1: It's a very small proportion.
Speaker 2: I think media and those sort of things portray an
Speaker 2: eing disorder in accurately that it's a very malnourished, unwell
Speaker 2: human being.
Speaker 1: And you said is a case for some people.
Speaker 2: But I think you know, there's as common belief as
Speaker 2: you said that, I've experienced myself, and I hear from
Speaker 2: lots of people I interact with around I'm not sick enough.
Speaker 2: And I think my message to people that feel that
Speaker 2: is that if you are struggling with your mind, your body,
Speaker 2: your self worth. You know, if you were struggling, you
Speaker 2: are sick enough. And I think something I had to
Speaker 2: learn is that nothing was ever going to be enough
Speaker 2: for my eating disorder. My eating disorder was not going
Speaker 2: to be happy until it was dead. The goalposts were
Speaker 2: going to keep on shifting, and so reminding yourself that
Speaker 2: you were worthy and deserving of help, that it's not
Speaker 2: a competition, that eating disorders aren't about. Look, it's a
Speaker 2: physical sorry, it's a mental illness is really really important
Speaker 2: to remember.
Speaker 1: Yep, it's I mean we see it now as well
Speaker 1: all the time, especially with social media and especially on
Speaker 1: tektok as well. There's just it can become such a
Speaker 1: competitive thing. And I'm so thankful we talk about this
Speaker 1: all the time, how thankful we are that social media
Speaker 1: didn't really exist and when we are unwow, because it's
Speaker 1: so hard to navigate it with that as well, and
Speaker 1: I think that can also add to that feeling of
Speaker 1: not being sick enough. And yeah, to just validate whether
Speaker 1: it's you know, with with any disorders or anything else
Speaker 1: that you're struggling with when you feel like you need
Speaker 1: to get help you, it's okay, it's acceptable to get help.
Speaker 1: At that point, you don't have to wait for stuff
Speaker 1: to hit the fane.
Speaker 2: And the deeper you go, the more you have to
Speaker 2: crawl out, you know.
Speaker 1: Dang girl, dang yeah, yeah, no, it's true, that's very true.
Speaker 1: This question here is another one that I get asked
Speaker 1: quite a bit. How to tell your parents about self harm?
Speaker 1: This is something that is so incredibly difficult for a
Speaker 1: lot of young people to do and to understand as well.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, I've done a few different
Speaker 1: episodes that have touched on self harm and how misunderstood
Speaker 1: it is and how people just think that it's attention seeking,
Speaker 1: but really you're just trying to cope with this pain
Speaker 1: that is inside. And the reality is is that, especially
Speaker 1: when it comes to the older generation, they might not
Speaker 1: understand that. But your parents love you, they want the
Speaker 1: best for you, and I think that being able to
Speaker 1: if you feel like you can't physically tell them, write
Speaker 1: it down. I'm a big advocate for writing it in
Speaker 1: a letter, say how you're feeling, and being able to
Speaker 1: articulate it as much as you can, because if you
Speaker 1: go straight into a conversation you can get jumbled, there
Speaker 1: can be a lot more emotions, and obviously the emotions
Speaker 1: are still going to calm, the conversations are still going
Speaker 1: to be had, and it's more important that someone knows
Speaker 1: what is going on than you being so afraid of
Speaker 1: the response. And you know, if your parent doesn't understand,
Speaker 1: there's also resources that you can point them to online.
Speaker 1: But this isn't something that you have to battle with alone,
Speaker 1: and it's not something that is going to have to
Speaker 1: stay with you for the rest of your life. But
Speaker 1: you do need help to get out of that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: to someone, speak to someone. Yeah, absolutely, I think it's
Speaker 1: it's just it's so important. Oh, Jen loves this one
Speaker 1: favorite quote. Loves a quote. Oh, I love a quote.
Speaker 1: Love a quote. I love a quote. I think you
Speaker 1: all know, Ma, I'm kidding you don't.
Speaker 2: Something I always say and was one of my biggest
Speaker 2: recovery motivators was the journey of a thousand miles begins
Speaker 2: with a single step. Something that I continue to remind
Speaker 2: myself or remind people, is that you're now doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be you forever. You know, things can change. Like
Speaker 2: Jazz says, change is possible.
Speaker 1: Hope is real, and change as possible. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: there's so many questions, guys. There's oh, this is interesting.
Speaker 1: How do you cope with getting the title of survivor?
Speaker 1: Recently got the title myself? Is what this person has said?
Speaker 2: This is?
Speaker 1: This is actually I wow, this is a really interesting
Speaker 1: question because I think, first of all, the shift from
Speaker 1: victim to survivor is huge as well, because that is
Speaker 1: also saying that this is not just like, this is
Speaker 1: something that happened to you, that you were a victim of,
Speaker 1: but now you were on the process of you like,
Speaker 1: you freaking survived it. Whatever it was that happened to you,
Speaker 1: you survived it, You got through it, and that is
Speaker 1: a testament to your strength. And none of that, though, ever,
Speaker 1: justifies what happened. I think that anyone who is a
Speaker 1: survivor of any form of trauma, we always hear that
Speaker 1: whole thing of like, your trauma makes you stronger, you're
Speaker 1: a survivor, you're so much. We didn't ask to be traumatized,
Speaker 1: We didn't need to be stronger, like, we didn't ask
Speaker 1: for that, we didn't ask to be a survivor. But
Speaker 1: I think those moments being able, you can be angry,
Speaker 1: you can be frustrated. You can feel everything about what
Speaker 1: happened to you while or so accepting the fact that
Speaker 1: this has happened. We can't go back and change the past.
Speaker 1: What we can do is change our responses, our emotions
Speaker 1: and behaviors to make sure that what happened doesn't define
Speaker 1: us going forward and doesn't have to have that grip
Speaker 1: on us. And I also think survivor is such an
Speaker 1: empowering thing as well, Like you, you survived it, You
Speaker 1: did that. Yeah, be freaking proud. Is there anything you
Speaker 1: want to say to that?
Speaker 2: No, it's a really I mean, it's a great It's
Speaker 2: a complex question. I think I went through a period
Speaker 2: of you know, my trauma is different there in terms
Speaker 2: of you know, expect to that ED disorder and OCD,
Speaker 2: and it has been quoted in articles, you know, even
Speaker 2: disort of survivor, and personally, I don't feel connected necessarily
Speaker 2: to the survivor word.
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know. It's a complex one.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting because I remember reading your hospital files
Speaker 1: with you, and I have read a lot more. I
Speaker 1: guess details of what has gone public and gen you're
Speaker 1: eating just order nearly killed you like you. That's like
Speaker 1: you survived one of the most deadly mental illnesses. Like
Speaker 1: that's like I think that, I think that people often
Speaker 1: associate survivor survivor with a traumatic event. But that's it's
Speaker 1: interesting that you feel you don't connect to that, because
Speaker 1: that's I think you should take a moment to go
Speaker 1: christ like you did. You survived because you did the
Speaker 1: work and that thing it literally nearly killed you, like it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just gonna let you. I need to sit
Speaker 1: with that. And I think, no, you're completely right. I
Speaker 1: did survive, and I think it's not only that I thrived.
Speaker 1: You know, why do you think the word survivor makes
Speaker 1: you feel uncomfortable for you for your journey?
Speaker 2: No, this is a great question, and instantly what comes
Speaker 2: to mind, and I would be the first person to
Speaker 2: shut someone down that said this is it doesn't feel
Speaker 2: I don't know if I feel worthy of that title,
Speaker 2: which is you know, and you've just broken it down
Speaker 2: for me is so interesting because how, yeah, I survived,
Speaker 2: Yeah you did.
Speaker 1: Like you think of like nineteen year old gen who
Speaker 1: is doing also for you with OCD all of these
Speaker 1: rituals and stuff, but like for me, literally reading those
Speaker 1: hospital notes there were moments where you didn't want to
Speaker 1: wake up, but also that you physically, if you kept going,
Speaker 1: it would have claimed your life. You literally survived one
Speaker 1: of the most deadly mental illnesses that there is, and
Speaker 1: I think you need to give yourself more credit for that.
Speaker 1: But I also think this is really interesting because there
Speaker 1: is so much stuff around around being a survivor being
Speaker 1: tied to traumatic events and that it's not big enough
Speaker 1: where it's not bad. And I literally just had this
Speaker 1: conversation real with Brie, which was on the last episode
Speaker 1: of this podcast. I remember when she told me about
Speaker 1: her traumatic event that she went through where she was kidnapped.
Speaker 1: Well not sorry, she wasn't. Oh my god, let me
Speaker 1: reword that she was not. She was she was threatened
Speaker 1: to be kidnapped. And when she first told me the story,
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, but it's not like as bad
Speaker 1: as what you'd been and I was like, I was.
Speaker 1: I was shocked, and I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: this is nuts. But there's so much comparison that can
Speaker 1: happen of like, well it wasn't as bad as this,
Speaker 1: or yes it was, yes it was well, and for
Speaker 1: you and your experience and your life and what you
Speaker 1: went through it was And I think that happens all
Speaker 1: the time when it comes to like any kinds of
Speaker 1: trauma of like, well it wasn't as bad as this
Speaker 1: or like but and you were like yeah it was.
Speaker 1: Yeah for you it was yeah, you're right. You can't
Speaker 1: compare trauma. No. Well, thank you to the person that
Speaker 1: asked that question.
Speaker 2: I'm going to just be driving home about this, like, wow,
Speaker 2: that was uponto that.
Speaker 1: But thank you. That was a yeah, what a beautiful question. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, this is a good question for you. Okay,
Speaker 1: how do you handle public speaking anxiety?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Wow, this is a great question for me.
Speaker 2: I do more of more of it, more public speaking
Speaker 2: than you know, I've probably ever done, you know, And
Speaker 2: I think having jazz lead the way has been really
Speaker 2: helpful for me. I think someone said something to me once,
Speaker 2: you know, you get nervous because you care, Like every
Speaker 2: time I go out and speak, I want to do
Speaker 2: a good job. I want someone to take something for it.
Speaker 2: I you know, have this in a critic and you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm again it's that worthy thing.
Speaker 1: I'm good enough.
Speaker 2: How dare you stand up on the stage and tell
Speaker 2: these teenagers, you know what helped you through your struggles,
Speaker 2: and you know, is it bad enough? And is anyone
Speaker 2: going to relate to that story? And again that's something
Speaker 2: I continue to work on. But I think it's one
Speaker 2: of those things. And I learned this throughout my journeys,
Speaker 2: is that exposure piece. Right, the more you do something,
Speaker 2: the less scary it becomes. And so it's putting myself
Speaker 2: in those uncomfortable positions, and she trying to flip the
Speaker 2: narrative and be like, how lucky am I that I
Speaker 2: get to share my experience and hopefully help someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, And I think you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people wouldn't have seen them behind the scenes
Speaker 1: for you. But like you used to have to write
Speaker 1: everything down word for word on a piece of paper
Speaker 1: before you spoke, and I wouldn't sleep for like three weeks.
Speaker 1: And now she can just get up and just talk.
Speaker 1: And I think that really does come from that, like
Speaker 1: knowing you're you know the purpose of what you're speaking.
Speaker 1: But even if people when it comes to like school
Speaker 1: speeches and stuff like that, the big thing that still
Speaker 1: really helps me and it counts can sound really cliche.
Speaker 1: And you'll know this with with your battles with anxiety,
Speaker 1: as well as the box breathing techniques. I've breathing for four,
Speaker 1: hold for four, out for four, hold for four. This
Speaker 1: is something that even some of your top athletes will do.
Speaker 1: When people are at the peak of the performance. People
Speaker 1: are still doing that to calm their nerves down. And
Speaker 1: while I personally don't get anxious speaking anymore, weirder only
Speaker 1: because I've done it five million times, I did get
Speaker 1: very nervous when I had to go after someone bias.
Speaker 1: It was, oh my goodness, and I was in high
Speaker 1: heels and then my earring dropped off in the stage.
Speaker 1: Lad read of the title wrong. Oh my gosh. Yes,
Speaker 1: there's also this one time. Okay, I want to tell
Speaker 1: the story, and I really hope that you're okay with
Speaker 1: it from me. So the reason this actually came up
Speaker 1: is that I was listening to the radio the other
Speaker 1: day and Flick Thwna Haley, who hosts the breakfast show
Speaker 1: for ZIM. We're talking about mispronouncing words and like when
Speaker 1: that's been an issue for you, And there was this
Speaker 1: one time that we were speaking in a intermediate school
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of like very young kids there right,
Speaker 1: and Gina's getting up. She's getting real confident at this point,
Speaker 1: she's speaking her little heart out, and then she's starting
Speaker 1: to talk about tools, and at one point she stops
Speaker 1: and she says, just grab your tit. I wanted to
Speaker 1: crawl into a ball. I'm standing on the side of
Speaker 1: the stage, catch her out the side of my eye.
Speaker 2: Go And so basically what I was trying to say
Speaker 2: is this breathing technique where you squeeze your fists. So
Speaker 2: I think I was saying, just squeeze your fist, but
Speaker 2: I said squeeze your tits.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, I need to go home.
Speaker 2: It was the funniest thing, no, And thankfully I think
Speaker 2: it went over most of their heads, but.
Speaker 1: I just the teachers. But I want to I want
Speaker 1: to share that because we've all had. We've all had,
Speaker 1: I've said a couple of times, and now I'm so
Speaker 1: cautious when I say it. It was I don't know
Speaker 1: it was a school or a corporate conference. It may
Speaker 1: have been a corporate conference. And I was talking about
Speaker 1: the whole concept of it, start surviving, start fighting.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: Shot chart to short surviving you know what a shot?
Speaker 1: And then I just couldn't like trying to recover from that,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 2: That happens, and you actually taught me something because I'd
Speaker 2: often like if I fumble my words while I'm talking,
Speaker 2: They're like sorry, and you like, stop saying sorry because
Speaker 2: it makes more obvious.
Speaker 1: Just continue faked, you make it? This is I feel
Speaker 1: like this All of these questions are making me really
Speaker 1: ponder a lot of things this person has said. Is
Speaker 1: the reason we can't love ourselves because of other people's actions?
Speaker 1: Or is that selfish to say that other people are
Speaker 1: the reason that we can't love ourselves? It's dang, I'm
Speaker 1: going to say. I'm going to say, I want to
Speaker 1: say yes. To be honest, I think I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: What I will say from personal experience is that a
Speaker 1: lot of my time, like for me, my inability to
Speaker 1: love myself has come from a mixture of things that
Speaker 1: has come from not getting that when I was super
Speaker 1: young growing up. And if I can't be loved by
Speaker 1: those who are supposed to love me, then why what
Speaker 1: I be? It came from trauma, it came from bullying,
Speaker 1: it came from all of that. And then see this
Speaker 1: is funny because then I say, and then it also
Speaker 1: came from the things that I did and my reactions.
Speaker 1: And that also, I like, because I would hate myself
Speaker 1: for certain things with ways that I would cope were,
Speaker 1: especially when I was constantly kind of that crisis mode
Speaker 1: or feeling like I had to make something up to
Speaker 1: be to still you know, feel momentary love or things
Speaker 1: like that. And then when I go back to the
Speaker 1: core of that, those behaviors, those responses, those things that
Speaker 1: I couldn't love myself because of was a response to
Speaker 1: the things that happened to me. Yeah, and the things
Speaker 1: that are going on in the world, And I think that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's something that is like, you're not
Speaker 1: born hating yourself. No, you're not born with an inability
Speaker 1: to love yourself. No, And then no, I completely hear you.
Speaker 2: And then I look at my situation and where I
Speaker 2: was so privileged and I am so privileged to have
Speaker 2: been surrounded and so much love, Like there wasn't anything
Speaker 2: external that made me feel Did you.
Speaker 1: Ever feel like you didn't love yourself, well, that you
Speaker 1: couldn't love yourself?
Speaker 2: I think it was probably that came as part of
Speaker 2: my experience, you know, through more specifically tied to my
Speaker 2: eating disorder.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was something I experienced apart from
Speaker 1: that different for everyone. Yeah, that's man, that some of
Speaker 1: these questions are are good. I mean I have like
Speaker 1: a million answers. As soon as I leave here, I
Speaker 1: feel it. Oh my god, I've just seen for those
Speaker 1: of you who listened to zenim Ross boss, who is
Speaker 1: the boss of zenim Networks? Do you know the muffin Man?
Speaker 1: Do you know? Do you know the muffin Man? The
Speaker 1: Muffin Man, the Muffin Man? Do you know them? Man
Speaker 1: who lives on Dreury Lane? How do you deal with
Speaker 1: online bullies?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: You get more of these? And that is not an invitation, girl,
Speaker 1: and I will cry. Yeah. I mean I've been getting
Speaker 1: bullied on the engineer since I was in Bibo days,
Speaker 1: and I mean to be I don't think i'd shared
Speaker 1: the story red so oh man, people that I went
Speaker 1: to high school are going to absolutely girl me for this.
Speaker 1: But so when I was younger, when we were younger,
Speaker 1: there was this app that a lot of you probably
Speaker 1: won't know. It wasn't even an app, it was a website, Bbo.
Speaker 1: We all had Bibo. Exactly what you're gonna say, yeah,
Speaker 1: and back on Bebo, there was a thing where you
Speaker 1: could have someone as your other half, and everyone had
Speaker 1: someone as your other half. I didn't have any friends,
Speaker 1: and so I just made a random faced it so
Speaker 1: that I could for them. Do you remember their name? No? No,
Speaker 1: I don't remember at all.
Speaker 2: Bibo was the worst. I would have your other half
Speaker 2: and you'd have your top five or ten, the fight
Speaker 2: with someone at school, and.
Speaker 1: They'd move down this.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you can move them down, change them
Speaker 2: as much as you want to.
Speaker 1: I was convinced. I was having a conversation with Ashley
Speaker 1: Tidstar once on me anyway. To go back to the
Speaker 1: question online police, that's it is something that you know,
Speaker 1: I've experienced since before I kind of got the profile
Speaker 1: that I do now, and I definitely deal with it
Speaker 1: a lot better than I used to. I think that
Speaker 1: the block button is the most powerful thing that you
Speaker 1: could possibly have. I think that, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: what I've learned as well is that what you don't
Speaker 1: see can't hurt you. So I try to not actively
Speaker 1: seek out some of the you know that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff and and do block it as fast as I can.
Speaker 1: And I think that's hard when it comes to people
Speaker 1: that are in school and you're kind of having to
Speaker 1: go face to face with his people every day. But
Speaker 1: I think also talking to people is so powerful and
Speaker 1: reporting it, reporting it like it's not when when you
Speaker 1: know your parents were at school, they would get bullied
Speaker 1: at school and then come home and it would not
Speaker 1: follow them home or as now it doesn't. Mis seeing
Speaker 1: case after case after case of that. Especially you know,
Speaker 1: we've seen a string of suicides in Australia of these
Speaker 1: young kids that have been bullied online and I think
Speaker 1: I hate snapchat. I hate it because it also gets
Speaker 1: rid of all of the evidence of stuff that happened.
Speaker 1: As well, kids use it as an excuse. We used
Speaker 1: to do things like ask if him or like those
Speaker 1: anonymous things, but.
Speaker 2: You'd put one up on your own platform and then like, no,
Speaker 2: you're going to get.
Speaker 1: Bullied do it? Just yeah? Terrible. Yeah. I think my
Speaker 1: biggest piece of advice is what other people say about
Speaker 1: you does not define who you are. It does not
Speaker 1: define your self worth at all. The people who are
Speaker 1: closest to you know you, they love you for who
Speaker 1: you are, and block report you don't have to stand
Speaker 1: for it. And also if you see it happening, and
Speaker 1: you're not the one being bullied, or you're not the
Speaker 1: bully themselves. If you see it happening, you have a
Speaker 1: responsibility as well to jump in this issue. We cannot
Speaker 1: be the people that we see these kids that are
Speaker 1: dying suicide, and then we're posting going, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you have to stand up to bullying, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: And then you're seeing other people get bullied and you're
Speaker 1: not doing anything about it because you don't want to
Speaker 1: step on toes or you don't know. This is everyone's
Speaker 1: responsibility and if we want to see this issue change,
Speaker 1: it's not just on the victims. Yeah, no, I completely
Speaker 1: hear you in that.
Speaker 2: And I think something that's been really sort of opening
Speaker 2: to me is the fact that there's websites that literally
Speaker 2: literally exists to bully people online. And I think the
Speaker 2: way that I try and frame it is I actually
Speaker 2: look at that and I just go, that is so sad,
Speaker 2: the fact that people take time out of their day, Like,
Speaker 2: how low and how unhappy must they be to go
Speaker 2: and take time to type on a website awful things
Speaker 2: about other people. Yeah, Like, I just really unfortunately think
Speaker 2: that's potentially a reflection of them and what they're going through.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I also think it's a reflection of society
Speaker 1: that we think it's okay, like when you think of
Speaker 1: back of like even all the women's magazines and stuff.
Speaker 1: I think New Zealand's a bit better with that. But
Speaker 1: all the American minds that you grow up with, all
Speaker 1: the gossip forum gossip forums like you grow up with
Speaker 1: be eight people like criticism and bullying is normal and
Speaker 1: it shouldn't be, and it's yeah, it's got to stop.
Speaker 1: It's so insane. I like this question. If you had
Speaker 1: one minute of everyone's attention in the entire world, what
Speaker 1: would you tell them? And you only had one minute
Speaker 1: to tell them? Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: I needed these questions prior to this.
Speaker 1: I already asked last night, and there's so many that
Speaker 1: have come through that are just like, oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I feel.
Speaker 2: Like I'm going to miss important stuff and then be like,
Speaker 2: why did I do?
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say I think I say the
Speaker 1: same thing everywhere that I go because for me, this
Speaker 1: is my purpose in life. And before I get up
Speaker 1: on any stage, before I direct any campaign, any show,
Speaker 1: write any book, is that at the end of each
Speaker 1: of those things, I want everyone to know that no
Speaker 1: matter what it is that they're facing, hope is real
Speaker 1: and change is possible. And that's why this podcast is
Speaker 1: named Hope is Real. But I think that we underestimate
Speaker 1: the power of hope and that no matter what it
Speaker 1: is that you are going through, things can change. Because
Speaker 1: I think that's where we lose majority of our people,
Speaker 1: is that they just they there's no ability for them
Speaker 1: to ever see change. And sometimes you can be living
Speaker 1: in it for so many years it is so it
Speaker 1: feels impossible to see that. I was in it for
Speaker 1: nine years. But yeah, I would say, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 1: hope is so freaking real and change is possible.
Speaker 2: You've just got to be here to see it. What
Speaker 2: would you say? And the world is better with you
Speaker 2: and you. Gosh, there's so many things I want to say.
Speaker 2: The first things that come to mind is that you
Speaker 2: are not the exception to healing. I think I talk
Speaker 2: to people every single day that are like, yeah, but
Speaker 2: that's you.
Speaker 1: I can't do that.
Speaker 2: We've had the privilege of meeting so many incredible people
Speaker 2: through our work and through sharing our own stories, have
Speaker 2: healed and that have found peace after you know, their
Speaker 2: their battles, and I think it's really important to remember
Speaker 2: that you are capable. You're stronger than you even know,
Speaker 2: and I think I really want to validate that. I
Speaker 2: know it's incredibly exhausting. I know it's daunting, I know
Speaker 2: it's overwhelming. I know that sometimes it feels like it
Speaker 2: would be easier just to stay the same and stay.
Speaker 1: Where you are now.
Speaker 2: But I can promise you from my experience, from the
Speaker 2: amount of people I've spoken to, that no one ever
Speaker 2: regrets healing. It'll be the best thing you ever do
Speaker 2: for yourself.
Speaker 1: And you're not alone.
Speaker 2: And as Jazz said, or as I said for Jazz,
Speaker 2: the world is better with you in it.
Speaker 1: That's that I need to write that out. Put it
Speaker 1: on a T shirt. Well, don't ask me saying again,
Speaker 1: because put it on Oh my goodness, that's no. I
Speaker 1: really love that. And you know, there's there's so many
Speaker 1: there's so many questions that I want to get to
Speaker 1: and I can see, you know how much people are
Speaker 1: There's so many different things that people are struggling with.
Speaker 1: And we have the honor and the privilege of just
Speaker 1: being a part of what we get to do when
Speaker 1: we get to be honest and open. And I actually
Speaker 1: laugh the other day when I was sharing the full
Speaker 1: story of the whole Stalker situation because the laws finally
Speaker 1: getting past it, Stalker was becoming a leader. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: someone commented and said, oh my god, there's almost so
Speaker 1: much drama on your page, no offense, And I just
Speaker 1: sat there and I was like, that's because I have
Speaker 1: the honor and the privilege of sharing everything that happens.
Speaker 1: Most people don't do that. Yep. Most people only present
Speaker 1: one side of themselves or you know, So it does
Speaker 1: feel like there's always drama, but that's because I'm just sharing, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and seve of the times, it's like stoff
Speaker 1: having two years ago that I'm a talking.
Speaker 2: About now, but completely it's almost like that, being like
Speaker 2: you're always so vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone, It's another question that we get asked a lot,
Speaker 1: but I want to see if you've got any any
Speaker 1: new answers to it. As we're beginning to slowly wrap up,
Speaker 1: there's so many more questions I want to get to.
Speaker 1: I'm going to sew many weeks squeeze in, but what
Speaker 1: is a moment for you that has stood out in
Speaker 1: the recent years of like why you keep doing this?
Speaker 1: What it's like your proudest I don't want to there,
Speaker 1: those are two different questions. I don't want see your
Speaker 1: brand's a team in. Yeah, I want to say, what's
Speaker 1: like a moment for you that has stood out to
Speaker 1: you in this advocacy work where you've gone, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm making a difference. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: I had a moment recently where I was in the
Speaker 2: car park at Newmarket Mall and a dad came up
Speaker 2: to me and said, thank you for writing your book.
Speaker 2: Isaac was with me, and he sat me down. Afterwards
Speaker 2: he goes, do you know what a big deal that is?
Speaker 2: That dad walked over to you. His daughter was standing
Speaker 2: there and she looked like she was just didn't want
Speaker 2: to have anything to do with me in that moment,
Speaker 2: which is fine. But yeah, I think that was a
Speaker 2: moment where I went because the book writing journey was
Speaker 2: so vulnerable and so scary, but also to know even
Speaker 2: if it just helt that one dad, yeah, that it
Speaker 2: helps someone.
Speaker 1: That was cool for me.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of more, I guess a personal one
Speaker 2: something that I love. So I run support groups every
Speaker 2: fortnight and they've been running for sort of four or
Speaker 2: five years now, and they eating to sort of support
Speaker 2: groups and throughout those years, and it happened recently someone
Speaker 2: messaged me saying they're pregnant, and I just was like,
Speaker 2: how freaking cool is this? And I understand not everyone
Speaker 2: wants to have a baby, but I think if you've
Speaker 2: been through an eating disorder, you know the damnage it
Speaker 2: does have on your baby, on your on your baby,
Speaker 2: on your body, and those moments, I'm like to have
Speaker 2: been part of your journey, even.
Speaker 1: If it was this small, it was so freaking cool. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't even feel like I can put it down
Speaker 1: to one moment. There's so many, so many moments where
Speaker 1: it just reminds me why I'm doing it. And I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, for me, last year was so hard,
Speaker 1: and there were so many points where I considered stopping
Speaker 1: all of this. I mean stopping in general, but so
Speaker 1: many times I consider stopping this all. And even when
Speaker 1: the stalker situation happened and the conversations around taking everything
Speaker 1: offline and not like, you know, because there was so
Speaker 1: much fear around it, but then just looking back at
Speaker 1: all of these different interactions and going, holy grab this
Speaker 1: is why and I think, yeah, I mean I have
Speaker 1: it is the parents always get me. I was speaking
Speaker 1: at an event in Tasmania that I was about to
Speaker 1: say recently, and that was wild Festival because it's in
Speaker 1: a different country, but I just remember this mother coming
Speaker 1: up with their child and the moms just bawling her
Speaker 1: eyes out and just is like saying thank you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you again, like my kid is here. Because of
Speaker 1: the fact that you guys are so open with your stories,
Speaker 1: and that's that happened as well, like a few years
Speaker 1: ago at a different conference, I was speaking and it's
Speaker 1: something that for me when you see that impact and
Speaker 1: you see people choosing hope, everything else doesn't matter. The
Speaker 1: haters don't matter, the fear of putting yourself online doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: like nothing else matters, because these people are finding hope
Speaker 1: and it's so cool that you get to just be
Speaker 1: this tiny little part of it. And I want to
Speaker 1: emphasize that that's what it is like people. And I've
Speaker 1: told other's a lot that people will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: like Jas and Gin, you saved my life and we
Speaker 1: did not save you. When you say that someone or
Speaker 1: something saved your life, You were the one that chose
Speaker 1: to stay. You were the one that chose to listen
Speaker 1: to them. You were the one that chose to take
Speaker 1: the opportunity of hope that was presented to you and
Speaker 1: run with it. You were the one that did all
Speaker 1: of the hard work. All that we do is go, hey,
Speaker 1: there's hope, and then there's counselors who go, hey, here's
Speaker 1: some things that you can practically do, and there's family
Speaker 1: hook hey will be around you. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's your decision. And that for me
Speaker 1: seeing people choose to fight and choose to stay, Oh,
Speaker 1: every time I can, I completely understand.
Speaker 2: Then I think you know, and I think I learned
Speaker 2: that from you because I get comments like that, being
Speaker 2: like you saved my life. No, you saved your life.
Speaker 2: And it's such an honor and a privilege to have
Speaker 2: been a small part of that journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tiny part, it's a tiny part. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I get incredibly inspired by the people within our communities.
Speaker 2: It's a pretty unique position to be in where you
Speaker 2: are interacting or seeing the most resilient human beings on
Speaker 2: a daily basis.
Speaker 1: And we, I mean, we love all of you, like
Speaker 1: so much, and we see you. We know so many
Speaker 1: of you by names. We talk about it. I know,
Speaker 1: we literally do. We talk about you. We stalk you,
Speaker 1: not in the illegal sense, but you know we I
Speaker 1: cannot even say how much we appreciate this platform that
Speaker 1: you've allowed us to give to share our stories. Like
Speaker 1: we get to do this because you trust us, You
Speaker 1: trust the advice that we give, you, trust the way
Speaker 1: that we're able to speak. And I don't think I'll
Speaker 1: ever ever take that for granted. Like there's some of
Speaker 1: you that we see a whole bunch of different events
Speaker 1: that we go to, and I've seen a few times
Speaker 1: he'll be like, I don't want to be annoying. No, No,
Speaker 1: this is every reason that we do it, and it's
Speaker 1: every reason that we jump on and we go through
Speaker 1: crazy traffic to come and record a podcast and then
Speaker 1: we go and you know, we're so thankful to be
Speaker 1: able to do it, and it's yeah, it's everything. I
Speaker 1: completely agree. Hey, first, we all Jen, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for it coming on and closing out another season
Speaker 1: of Hope is Real the podcast, And again, thank you
Speaker 1: guys so much for hanging out with me this season
Speaker 1: and for the seasons beforehand. Like I said earlier. If
Speaker 1: there is anything that you've messed or you haven't listened
Speaker 1: to an episode, please go back listen. And as always,
Speaker 1: if anything in this episode or any of the questions
Speaker 1: that we were speaking to has brought up anything for you,
Speaker 1: please no. Remember that the best thing that you can
Speaker 1: do is to ask for help, and if you don't
Speaker 1: know how to do that, if there's not anyone in
Speaker 1: your direct world that you feel like you can talk to,
Speaker 1: there are helplines that exist all around the world as well.
Speaker 1: You can go here in altaioa once even three seven
Speaker 1: is an amazing helpline. We've got youth line, or if
Speaker 1: you live overseas, got a dub dub dub dot the
Speaker 1: Voices of Hope dot org. There's a list of international
Speaker 1: helplines on there as well. But thank you guys so
Speaker 1: much for hanging out with me this season. It's been
Speaker 1: an absolute honor and a privilege, and I will see
Speaker 1: you soon.